Yanis Varoufakis: It's mad to think Ukraine can win

[@songnverse]

I long for days when we can all respectfully disagree without being canceled for those beliefs. I respect you all for your open and sincere dialogue.

[@MihaiCirip]

I will respectfully call Mr Varoufakis a Putinist. He should not shrug from the term if he doesn't shy away from expressing, in essence, The Russian concept of a Multi Polar World Order with "buffer zones". Some people demonize Puțin & the Putinist, others demonize Zelenski, the Ukrainians and those who support them. It's a fact of life: whatever significant thing you say, someone will object, sometimes in extreme terms. He shouldn't pose as a victim, I don't see him cancelled or anything like that, nor videos such as this pulled down. That would be unacceptable, like it was around some taboo subjects during the pandemic. Ukrainians that are raped, tortured and killed are victims. As for the "buffer zones", they are populated by nations who should decide for themselves about their status and, as it happens, in this part of the world (I'm Romanian) we've had more than enough of being "buffer". So, Mr Varoufakis is as Putinist as an exponent of the Democratic Western World as one can be, stating his point of view. He doesn't have to go all the way to calling the Ukrainians Nazis and a made up Nation & country that shouldn't exist a.s.o. That is the narrative of Putin, Peskov & Lavrov, for the Russians. Putin himself doesn't wish for a better Western Putinist than Mr Varoufakis. Far better understanding of Putin and Russia than any of us, including Mr Varoufakis and his interviewer are Russian historians etc. who emigrated to the free world. As far as I could see these days, none of them share the Putinist pov. of Mr Varoufakis.

[@markstuber4731]

You're preaching to the choir. Boring.

[@gammaraygem]

I cancel the entire political and scientific community. Impotent nitwits. They have NOTHING without THOUGHT. Nothing. They do not know what Thoughts are, where they originate ,what they are made of and even less even remotely MASTER them, as in silencing the endless ratlle inside their pathetic little heads, aka the inner dialogue. If science had done its job and were rigorous and methodical, this mess would not have happened. But, like any cult, their priests do not adhere to their own dogmas. They f kids, and now they f the planet. Politicians not one bit better. Idiots. Cancel them, completely. NOW.

[@fightback397]

If you have not noticed regime change, sanctions and invasions done by the Western world have been an ongoing operation. The ones that die are always the people like you and me . The very rich just die in their beds peacefully .

[@georgeloizou1090]

@@MihaiCirip Varoufakis is a Putinist is utter nonsense….

[@j.obrien4990]

Wars have no winners only losers.

[@turk1514]

Not true, the defense industry win, banks wins, the media wins, the blog wins.

[@scenFor109]

Sovereign bankers win no matter who loses.

[@everready2903]

Weapons manufacturers might disagree with you

[@Kefuddle]

Unless you are the USA and the war was WWII, Vietnam, Gulf 1, Kosovo, Gulf 2 and Ukraine.

[@1969fata]

@@scenFor109 The Ukraine is still paying the interest rates of its debts to IMF and hedge funds. There is a big profit on it because of the inflation.

[@peterkerek4452]

I wish Yanis would quit retelling this lie about 250,000 "dead" in Grozny. That would be the entire population of Grozny - which certainly did NOT happen. The official numbers of dead, combined from both sides, is less than 10,000. I've heard him repeat this easily disproven lie on multiple platforms and I wish one host would have the courage to call him out on this instead of hanging off his every word like he's not occasionally completely wrong.

[@coppersmith_]

Thank you for pointing it out! I asume he is mistaking the numbers of what were the casualties of the whole conflict according to Chechen sources. 10,000 dead in Grozny is still criminal.

[@robertbrowne4049]

Putin hit them hard toppled the terrorists in power who were waging Islamic Jihad against Russia. No more bs from the Chechens.

[@anthonypagourelias9516]

I totally agree with you Peter...Varoufakis consistently fails to answer clearly put questions on anything. Instead he weaves a little story and side tracts back into something off the topic at the same time looking like he's answered your the question. Freddy has done his best to enlighten us about this war, yet with the help of this imbecile he's undermined the quality of his own reputation.

[@edwinblake]

I know nothing about that apart from news reports but I do see that the numbers are much contested. However if, as seems likely, the numbers are much lower, the destruction of Grozny and the murders committed are still a war crime.

[@georgeloizou1090]

@@anthonypagourelias9516 Who are you by the way? I bet you couldn’t tie Varoufakis’s shoelaces…

[@glennw469]

Years later look at his views how true is that

[@finestrellacaustica]

Varoufakis nailed it once again.

[@pringlel]

One of the stock questions Americans interrogating captured North Vietnamese asked was, 'Can your side win this war?' The universal answer came back as 'No'. This was passed on and gave heart to the American war effort. It was much later that some clever person changed the question to, 'Can you lose this war?' This solicited the universal answer of, 'No'. It changed everything.

[@alexedgar6539]

Exactly. They have to fight back. Europe has to fight back. We must support them. Slava Ukraine from South Africa!

[@yaki-moon]

@Marcus GH exactly

[@vandazetzakrzewska3704]

@Marcus GH This not how this looks from Eastern Europe. We rushed to join NATO precisely to avoid having Russian tanks cross our borders again. Geopolitical perspective is one thing, but people wanted to finally live prosperous lives and built democracies that wouldn’t be undermined by Russia.

[@qrsx66]

Another version is what a history teacher I had often said : "Time and time again people did incredible things. Because they didn't know / nobody told them it was impossible."

[@qrsx66]

​@Marcus GH You really really need to converse with Polish, Balts, Romanians... They'll explain to you why they so much want for NATO to be alive, and be in it.

[@axlslak]

I am Romanian. I don't know if I like this idea of "we". We shouldn't have... As if, WE, could decide for the Ukrainians. WE, Romanians decided we feel better protected by NATO than sitting in the Russian influence. WE also decided to adhere to EU. That's the only WE I can accept. I cannot accept a collective NATO WE that is afraid to holds it's alliance mission because it might upset Putin. There is no moral high-ground in the West if NATO is unable or unwilling to keep it's values and to protect them. And shying away from people that need protection would be a betrayal to that principle. The type of gesture that Churchill did trading Romania and Bulgaria on a piece of paper. It's not his to give. NONE of these countries belong to anyone to either give, or take. In regards to the nuclear threat, Yanis said we don't want nuclear weapons sitting next to each other at the border. I'm starting to think he doesn't even understand how nuclear weapons work. Does it matter where they sit? Or we're particularly worried that they may mishandle them? Not sure what's the difference. But anyway. The entire world has been under the threat of nuclear annihilation for 70 years. I'm not talking about either side. All sides. They keep arming, rearming, improving, and threatening. Yet, thank God, never use it. My grandmother lived under the threat, my mother lived under this threat, now I get to loose sleep thinking about my kids future. It's one of those things, that I really wish I didn't pass on to my kids. It should have been solved long ago. I am not suspecting Yanis of being a Russian puppet or anything like that. But it is fascinating to watch him try to express that thing "Ukrainians can't win". Apparently, yes they can. I think the Cold war has conditioned us to think that the Russians are on par with NATO/US. A peer. They don't seem to be a peer to me. It's tragic for everybody. For Ukrainians, for Russians, for Poles and Romanians and Moldovans. Everybody is worried. People are dying. Ever since this conflict started, day 1, I just decided I wasn't gonna loose any sleep over it. Other people have stayed up all night to look at what was happening. It was just that moment in the morning when I would get my phone and I would have a pit in my stomach, afraid to open the news. I was always afraid not to open a website and see a news article like: Zelensky dead. First few days were horrible. But as the days got by, it got better, day by day. I would say, ever since this conflict started I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Afraid of what the Russians are holding in reserve. Now, today, their Flagship of the Black sea, heavy cruiser Moskva, was sunk off the coast of Ukraine. The Russians are saying it was a fire in an ammo storage part of the ship and things got out of hand, couldn't be contained, that paired with a storm lead to the sinking. The Ukrainians say they hit the shit with 2 Ukrainian made cruise missiles. Take it as you will. Neither story bodes well for Russia. They wanted to be peer or near-peer to the US, instead they lost a capital ship in "special operation" zone to a nation that doesn't have an operation navy. You do realize that if Putin doesn't blow up the entire planet, this is naval history, and they will teach this at the academy for generations to come. At all academies around the world. So, day by day, I am cured of this mirage of the mighty Russian army & co. So far, Russia has lost a lot of stuff. And NATO didn't even join the fight. Ukraine CAN and prolly WILL win this. And that's another thing. It's hard to understand who is loosing or winning what. But it's pretty simple to gage the result. Meaning, I don't expect (or want) Ukraine to win as much as going into Russian territories. That would be bad. Already am worried the Moskva sinking will be interpreted as ... badly as possible (and I'll end it there). But Ukrainians also bombed some fuel depots in Russia. Actually Russia. Over their own border. And might be inclined to conquer back some of the things they lost in 2014. And that's a very bad idea to do it by force. The Russians (Putin) will die before giving up Crimea. Like I said, it's hard to say who is loosing or winning what. It's easy to say the people are suffering, and I get the Ukrainian enthusiasm to bring it back to the Russians, but it is a really bad idea to attack them on their own territory. Stop at the border, I think. And again, it's hard to say who is winning or loosing what, but it's again, easy to say that Ukrainians only need to deny a victory to the Russians. They don't need to win anything. It's a much simpler mission for the defender. Russia has 50 days of failing and retreating. We'll see how they regroup now. There's rumour that they pulled all their ships, which effectively means they are no longer blockade Ukraine's ports. So maybe Ukraine can't win, in the sense that they will bring the fight to Russia, invade, go to Moskow and kill Putin. Maybe they can't do that. But Putin couldn't kill Zelensky either. And that says a lot. And I don't think this could be a frozen conflict. Frozen conflict would mean returning to some resemblance of business as usual. There's none of that in sight. Russia will either punch really hard and find that other shoe I'm afraid off, or will have to retreat and loose this special military operation. Which makes Ukraine the winner. Since Russia didn't win what it hoped to accomplish, instead Ukraine got aid, and fast track EU membership, and a lot of sympathy from the world... I think we could say Ukraine won. Russia on the other hand, just returned to the 60s. Before the CPU was invented. People don't realize, but a ban on CPU's is pretty bad. They can't get anything. Not CPU's, not GPU's, not memories, not anything remotely close to modern technology. And I know, I know, people always assume that CHINA!!! Nono. West was careful. These strategically important things are in friendly democracies. Like Sony/Panasonics in Japan. Like Samsung South Korea. LG. Not to mention the big boys, AMD, Intel, Nvidia. The relevant IP is in friendly democracies either in the US, or Europe, or Asia. It's not in China. Anyway, I'll end the rant here. I'm sorry for the Russian people, but, I'm more sorry about the Ukrainian people. They are our actual neighbours to the north. And we been in that exact same situation in 1944. And it took us 45 years to get out of it. Or begin to get out of it. We understand.

[@gigiduru125]

Yeah, Putin will die at some point so why not take back Crimea? Ofc they need to take it by force, they will not just give it back.

[@matthewkopp2391]

How about one simple proposal. Kick the USA out of NATO. It seems to be the primary problem.

[@saumyacow4435]

Thank you for expressing this. So many commentators seem to think that Ukraine is some kind of lesser state that has no right to choose its own fate. It definitely does have a right to join NATO if it so chooses. It has a right to continue to fight Russia. It has a right to ask for help and use that help. Besides, what really antagonises me about this commentator is his out of hand dismissal of Ukraine's ability to defat Russia on its own soil without so much as a reasoned argument on the actual, military facts. This is of course 3 weeks after the video was posted and its becoming clearer by the day that Ukraine has made the right decision - it can win.

[@Robin____]

@@saumyacow4435 God you are ignorant. You listen too much to the lying mainstream media. Ukraine can never win and this is a realistic fact. Another point, I support Russia 100 per cent. Putin should have attacked Ukraine eight years ago! The war started eight years ago when Washington initiated a coup in Kiev. The Russian Ukrainians in the Donbass regions in the South East of Ukraine were against the coup. Kiev then sent soldiers to Donbass sending missiles and bombs that killed, murdered children, women and elderly people in the Donbass. And this war has been going on for eight years by the bastards in Kiev! This is one of the reasons why Russia attacked in order to stop Ukrainian soldiers committing ethnic cleanisng of the people in Donbass. You will not get this in mainstream media. Just before Putin invaded Ukraine, there were already around 100,000 Ukrainian neo nazi soldiers preparing to invade and attack the Donbass region! www.bitchute.com/video/CVMoX7IQ5PLo/ kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6jRm6eOnb2EhNk kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZeypHyPbs6ih7M kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGqxiJhooMl9eM0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZWwZoOhrtFjlZo kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJnYZJ-cnK2beas kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqrFg4mXZtR3apI kzbin.info/www/bejne/raaVpYt9Z76iY8k kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3fTfKCYn82ooZI kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWa1fIGlfs14apI kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJXJhXideJmef9k kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHKuoaZ4e5KVrNE

[@neoistheI]

Atrocities have been happening in Ukraine for a very long time, at the hands of many different groups. From beheading and all kinds of mutilations. Feel very bad for all the innocent people who have lost their lives there due to such things.

[@petertakov]

And what exactly is the conclusion from this quite general observation, Mr Dugin? That everyone is bad and truth is a matter of interpretation?

[@neoistheI]

@@petertakov It means what it is literally saying, specific to each word for word. At no point did I say anything remotely like what you're saying or reading into. It's not general at all, it states a fact concerning the atrocities that Ukraine have been expriencing for years.

[@richardv9648]

One thing no one is talking about. All the Russian military deployed today in Ukraine is either the Eastern district military (Z) or the Southern military district army (V). I did bit of research on them, looking at the way they are funded, organized and conduct during training exercises. It appears these two military districts are the least funded and modernized by Russia in the last 20 years, which is quite consistent with the Russian hardware in Ukraine we have seen so far. Traditionally they (Z) are deployed against the Chinese and the Japanese in the east. They haven't seen battle since the Afghan war. Also they hardly train and exercise in the western sector, which spoked the Americans indicating an Invasion is on the way. The force NATO will be facing is the Western military district (F). An entirely different army with much larger fire power. They are much well funded and modernized.

[@boxcutter0]

Russia needs to disappear, it is a scourge on humanity, idiotic trash like you are a burden on modernity.

[@brunischling9680]

@@petertakov Truth is definitely not universal and the West does not possess it either. In our arrogance we do not even contemplate the possibility that other perspectives on the world are possible.

[@glennmitchell9107]

Greece could minimize tensions with Turkey by ceding all islands in the Aegean and Mediterranean Seas to Turkey. Why hasn't Yanis Varoufakis suggested that, or has he?

[@liambyrne5285]

Yea

[@georgeloizou1090]

Because he is not idiot like you…

[@katalinkiss120]

Not the same situation at all

[@glennmitchell9107]

@@katalinkiss120 Not the same situation, but the same logic.

[@alvinman8]

@@glennmitchell9107 you're just Angry with his truth

[@Ensignpeak]

UnHerd: the place for respectful, critical and well reasoned discussion of current events. The only adult left in the room.

[@lawrenceralph7481]

This is a good sign. Yanis is almost always wrong.

[@1969fata]

Yes. But he is right now.

[@lawrenceralph7481]

@@1969fataThe details of How this dispute is resolved in this former Soviet state 10,000 miles away is more important to Europeans that Americans. Americans just want a neutral stable border region acceptable to most, that we don't die achieving. We've paid enough in Europe and have a young dragon to contend. Let Europe get this one. You do it Yanis. For a country that does so little you have a lot time for ideas for someone else.

[@1969fata]

@@lawrenceralph7481 Yes, I am sure this is what most ordinary American people would want. But it is the political/financial power that makes the decisions. The EU will do what that power tells them to do. I wish they had strength to represent their own interests but I don't think they do.

[@surielao4162]

@@1969fata nope

[@1969fata]

@@lawrenceralph7481 Well, now you can see the US is pouring money in the Ukraine, increasing its presence in the country and said they will support them till they win. Hm.

[@1discretion]

How strange that neither Yannis nor the host thinks to mention the need to wait for a thorough independent investigation before assigning blame for atrocities.

[@encouragesolutions2595]

That's a joke, right? Where in this world would we find anyone who is independent. It's got to the point that you aren't 100% sure there are atrocities as CNN, Fox and their cohorts are capable of creating fake news for propaganda.

[@nikoscosmos]

Rather a wish for the atrocities to cease forthwith.

[@andreimustata5922]

While an investigation should certainly be made by this point there are enough evidences of destruction and murders that one can speak with a high degree of confidence of Russians committing atrocities. Europe doesn't have any interest in inflaming more the atmosphere so the fact that all the countries in Europe admit that these atrocities happened is because they did. It would have been hard to imagine Russians loosing and not killing civilians. Would be completely out of character (take a look at previous wars in Chechnya and Syria).

[@shooster5884]

What I am afraid to even think of is what larger atrocities are going to be discovered when the Russian army leave other villages and larger urban areas... Kharkiv for example. If undisciplined Russian soldiers drunk on vodka looted, and given the order that they are there to denazify Ukraine... A carte blanch in their minds to torture, rape and kill any Ukrainian, including children as we saw that horrific image of a little girl about 9 years of age dead in a basement among adult bodies with her hands tied behind her back... how many more little children have been killed like that because of Putin's mind control over the Russian people?

[@shanehickey8951]

@@andreimustata5922 I'm sure you will be calling for the expulsion of the USA from the UN human rights council for their actions in Syria and Afghanistan as well. This isn't a "what about" gotcha reply either by the way, it's just showing up the total hypocrisy of the west which is leading to is demise internally

[@paulorooij1935]

It seems that Yanis' commentary / position ignores what happened during the past 8 years in the Donbass -- incessant shelling, sniping etc. Where is his solidarity with those people? And was the bombing of that area another provocation?

[@Enicthefrauds]

This is my point entirely, there doing the same as trigonometry, hand picking the guests to echo there opinion If you’re paying attention how can you trust them?

[@oldtomfool]

Yea and if the shelling stopped what happens? Russia wasn't shelling Ukrainian territory? Russia wasn't sending men and guns over the boarder? Putin hasn't already laid out his plans. You can find your answers easily. As far as dunbass, I have heard from alot of Ukrainians that feel guilt about the past. Never from a russian in Russia. Probably something to do with controlled speech possible.

[@oldtomfool]

@@Enicthefrauds

[@mikefry5704]

Exactly well said

[@Enicthefrauds]

@@oldtomfool Tom is still bitter that I had to sack him from his job for tonking off in the girls toilets, he’s never forgiven me and trolls all my social media

[@kubastandera2294]

Hope Greece gives up NATO membership, Cyprus and Thessaloniki and disputed islands to Turkey and quit the hassle to Macedonia over it's name. Lead the way to a peaceful future please! Or is it only eastern Europe that should suffer so the West can continue their collaboration and business as usual with Putin?

[@TooBadToBeAway1]

It's nice to hear a calm and rational discussion of the issues involved. Thanks to both the moderator and Yannis. But I still feel there is a problem with agency here. We may all have our ideas about what is best for Ukraine, But I think this is finally up to the Ukrainian people and their elected representatives. Thus, it's fine for him to put forward his ideas about a ceasefire and negotiated settlement, but I feel these should be presented as his ideas, not as 'THE SOLUTION'. Ukraine has been through so much horrific oppression, with more war crimes coming to light each day. Also, against all the odds, they managed to push the Russian Army out of northern Ukraine. The timing for Ukraine to compromise is not ideal, to say the least. Basically, I think Yannis has very good ideas, but should be careful HOW he expresses them. People in eastern Europe know Russian imperialism in a much more direct and immediate way than those in western Europe (or North America).

[@rositasultana3958]

Amen to that! Everybody knows better than Ukrainians what's best for them. Where are our classical values?

[@Real-Name..Maqavoy]

There's more to it than that. Ukraine is becoming ( *Wanted* 》To Be; Like *Finland* ) - independent. But both US ( *NATO* ) & *EU* - Had other ideas.

[@olegstens7734]

@@Real-Name..Maqavoy If non-alignment had served Finland well, they wouldn't have 69% of the population favoring NATO membership today.

[@milosdunjic8718]

People of eastern Ukraine do not agree with people of west Ukraine, who banned their Russian language, Russian culture and started a war, after West sponsored coup in 2014, to create ethnically clean Ukraine without Russian as official culture. Pure Nazis.

[@SorbusAucubaria]

@@Real-Name..Maqavoy No, US & EU would have done nothing if Ukraine did not want to become part of them. Ukrainians did not want to be Russian pawns anymore. It was Russia who had other ideas. It seems unlikely that Ukraine will be "winning" this war. The country is already devastated. But the question is that can Ukranians trust that the Russian forces aren't going to basically commit genocide? Then there is no choise but to fight - no matter how long and no matter how bad the devastation is going to be. I don't really understand where this feeling of humiliation comes from. Because to me the soviet union collapsing was brought on by the soviets themselves and they picked up the pieces themselves and were welcomed to the international arena as equal partners. Russians have been part of European elite benefiting from all the trade as much as anyone until they started warmongering.

[@danesovic7585]

Why doesn't Greek government give some of their islands to Erdogan? After all, Greeks can never win against Turks and it would make Erdo very happy.

[@alexkat8297]

That. And I am saying that as a Greek. How can you ask someone to surrender part of his country to another country, just because it has a more powerful army. And mind you, some of the staunchest Greek nationalists (Yanis is not one of them) say that in public! Madness...

[@AvantNoir]

@@alexkat8297 Is it that crazy when hundreds of thousands of your people are dying? If Greece and Turkey went to war im sure Greece would cut its losses. But Zelensky is an arrogant fool and will allow his country to be razed to the ground before giving up a territory that was already pro-Russian

[@karstenschuhmann8334]

@@alexkat8297 It is always the right and the left that is in the pocket of Putin, in most countries in Europe.

[@MrShadownoise]

Why stop there? The Turks would, I am sure, like the return of Greece. The Greeks? Not so much!

[@danielsolodov4222]

I can't see how an agreement can be made any time soon. Putin's support is estimated at roughly 80%. Most Russian at this point are in agreement that the war is tragic but is nessesary to secure crucial geopolitical interests. Plus, any kind of agreement requires trust which is almost nonexistent at the moment. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing good about this war, I'm just giving you an insider's perspective so to speak.

[@shamanahaboolist]

Nice to see sense in a comment. There's nothing this intelligent on BBC's comment's section.

[@qrsx66]

If I don't take the 80% as an absolute mathematical truth, I can well see the Russian population not accepting a solution as described by Yanis Varoufakis. They may feel that it was not what was promised, not worth the sacrifices (economic and dead soldiers) and may not be satisfied that the "nazi drug dealers" are not totally eradicated from Ukraine.

[@palimpalim5291]

It is actually VERY easy: Get rid of Zelensky, install a REAL statesman instead of a TV clown that plays the piano with his dingeling and stick to the treaties (no NATO east expansion, Minsk treaty, disarmament of the Nazis, abolishment of the Pentagon sponsored bio weapon labs). That is ALL!

[@danielsolodov4222]

@@palimpalim5291 I'm afraid this was only possible during the first week of the invasion at best. Now? Too much blood has been spilled on both sides. What's more, two of the Russian-occupied regions are already being integrated into a transitional ruble-grivna economical system. Military victory is also very likely as the Ukranian professional military is heavily depleted in both men and resources. Political and economical pressure fron the West has also proven to be managable. I don't see how it makes any sense to go for a compromise by this point...

[@TesterAnimal1]

80%? Traitor! It’s 130%!

[@herodotus7]

I'm with Yanis. End the war now.

[@fireflyrobert]

Me too

[@danesovic7585]

Putin could end it today if he wished. But you just want Ukranians to surrender.

[@herodotus7]

@@danesovic7585 And you arguably want Ukrainians to continue to be killed and mutilated in a futile stand against Putin.

[@isaiasmejia673]

Ah yes why didn’t anyone think of just asking Putin to leave. Genius! Sue for peace 😂

[@TesterAnimal1]

Yes. Russia should withdraw now. Immediately. And pay reparations.

[@davidbarry6900]

In advocating for a buffer zone of neutral states between Russia and western Europe, Yanis is denying those states (like Poland, Hungary, Moldova, or Ukraine) any autonomy. He is saying that the will of the people in those countries doesn't matter, since it is in the best interests of the greater good if their foreign policy is decided by Europe and Russia instead. Yanis is voicing opinions almost exactly like those of the EU bureaucrats who imposed an economic crisis on Greece to bail out the French and German banks who had bad debts in Greece. I'm really surprised at this.

[@gerhardbenade5869]

Yes, it will be the same as the Monroe doctrine used by the USA to get nuclear missiles out of Cuba in 1962. Rules for thee but not for me. USA hegemony has to end.

[@molliestanton8457]

Re other countries forcing one country....post WWII, Palestine was forced to give up some of its land for a homeland for the Jews. Over 76 years later, the Palestinians are living in an open air prison, with frequent checkpoints and attacks from an advanced military. That's to say the least. You have to turn the question around: would it be a good idea for Communist China to have missiles/nukes and bioweapons labs on our border???

[@jamesmedina2062]

The will of each country's people is what matters but there should be very specific non-nuclear military alliance possibilities and not nuclear-trigger alliances. This makes it much more of an existential threat to Russia. Also, Ukraine needed serious overt support by UK and USA due to Budapest memorandum and this war began due to weakness shown. Even the policy of withdrawing all diplomats from Ukraine was overtly weak by the USA. Any kind of real support even by a limited band of Special Forces soldiers on the border of Ukraine may have materially averted war by sheer intimidation and moral support.

[@katalinkiss120]

Do you think they have autonomy now? They are chained to the will of the US. European countries are suffering because the US has sanctioned Russia. This means misery and deprivation on an unprecedented scale. Hungary is being sanctioned because it is exercising autonomy

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@katalinkiss120 EU countries are suffering misery and deprivation?? What kind of absurdity is this? The misery and deprivation is in Yemen, Ukraine, Mali, Syria where poverty has relegated such countries' peoples to perpetual suffering. Come on now. Europe is doing very well and sadly Ukraine and Moldova have not been able to join Europe fast enough for fear of upsetting Russia's feelings.

[@d_hedgehog2970]

These kind of conversations are absolutely what we need....why doesn't this have 50 million views...

[@historyoneonone9690]

Because of censorship.

[@pewpewpewpew7467]

@@historyoneonone9690 What censorship? I just got this recommended, and it rarely happens that discussions like this one get the same number of views as cat videos.

[@euLIRIC]

because the powers that be rather want this war than don't. that's why you keep having and funding a war, that the overwhelming majority of the population across Europe and the US don't want ...

[@genelarson6849]

​@@historyoneonone9690censorship in the USA is a nonissue

[@renarszivers9993]

My constant issue with Varoufakis (equally with Chomsky) comments are that he always believes he's 100% right whatever the subject. He hardly ever comes across as a I THINK guy, he's the I KNOW it guy.

[@rivolinho]

Indeed. Its a good business model. The I know it guys are always front and center in media. People love certainty.

[@hithisisnotpaul]

@@rivolinho It could just be that it's hard to have much to say unless you're an I know it guy.

[@ashleyKennedy5]

If Yanis is fine with sanctions then surely sanctions on Ukraine should also be applied, considering the evidence of Ukrainian war crimes at Kramatorsk, Ukrainian auxiliary police clearing "saboteurs and collaborators" in Bucha, Ukrainian military using human shields. Ukrainian military using Hospitals as military strong points, Ukrainian military torturing and executing PoWs. Ukrainian Nazis have been murdering civilians for the last eight years.

[@ashleyKennedy5]

@Saša Šijak The point is sanctions. There is evidence that Ukraine has been committing war crimes for the last eight years as well as the recent incidents. Yanis says sanctions should be used so why not on Ukraine? Sanctioning Ukraine eight years ago may have ensured Ukrainian compliance with the Minsk accords and no need for more war. US unilateral sanctions have boomeranged and hit the west in the back of the head.

[@mariachiingles2348]

Both are ideologised individuals who failed to grow up, hence their inability to think critically about their beliefs.

[@StanislawIII]

Maybe you guys could invite an expert from the eastern part of europe that has some experience and knowledge of Russia. I just want to remind you that in those countries people in Freddie’s age remember the communistic times and the mentality of that system... and it didn't seem to change much.

[@vanessali1365]

Freddie, I would like to see you take this challenge up.

[@raireva4689]

Exactly!

[@mahae_16]

@Nick Uzhov I'm sick of hearing the Ukrainian side. That is al you hear nonstop everyhere. Let's hear the TRUE instead

[@MrHuddo]

We are experiencing communistic times in the West right now. There are people older and wiser than you believe it or not.

[@guser7137]

@Nick Uzhov The propaganda coming from Ukraine and the complete blindness of the masses to it is making a lot of people sick.

[@essarr1082]

Sorry, this guy seems to be a months behind times. And has he forgotten that there’s still a huge NATO presence in Bosnia?

[@robertkras5162]

Sanctions don't work - not for Cuba, not for North Korea, not for Iraq, not for Iran; some of these were in place for decades and didn't work. US sanctions on Japan in 1941 (banning oil exports to that country) led to the attack on Perl Harbor. Sanctions are most ineffective when applied to commodity rich countries. Adding more sanctions on Russia isn't the solution. The Ruble has already recovered, and is now tied to gold. Russia will export gas, oil, and fertilizer to "friendly" countries.

[@jdevil8877]

Sanctions aren't effective for what they are purported to be being installed for. They are very effective at escalating tensions.

[@imaginarystranger1974]

You base your entire way of thinking on currently worthless things like exchange rate. Really, try harder.

[@robertkras5162]

@@imaginarystranger1974 Please reread what I wrote - 50+ years of sanctions on Cuba and North Korea has done nothing but retard the standard of living for the people and given the leaders (living lives of prosperity and wealth) use the sanctions to cover for the lack of development. As for Russia - they are working deals with China and India to trade using rubles/yuan/rupees - which undermines USD as world currency for trade (and hurts the US) Europe will carry a burden of the costs of sanctions on Russian energy and food exports - substantially less so for the US. etc. etc.

[@imaginarystranger1974]

@@robertkras5162 No, noone outside of russia wants ruble, including India and China. China will likely keep russia hostage by buying their resources at the cheapest price possible.

[@rockthepunchx9547]

@@robertkras5162 Jesus christ mate russia is giving up dollars and euros for rupees and yuan. What kind of domestic policy is that. Africa will be happy to replace that in the mean time. Nonetheless Europe, especially Germany is coming to terms with realising the value of doing business with Russia, can diametrically oppose its European values.

[@Peacefulascanbe]

ITS MAD TO BELIEVE UKRAINE WILL EVER GIVE UP🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

[@stuartbedwell8576]

I've never been a fan of Yanis but he is so right in his views: no one should contemplate perpetual war. George Orwell et al 70 years ago. Cheers Stuart.

[@paularnoldus1877]

It depends whether you see the current bad situation as resembling 1938 -1939 or 1945.. Cheers, Paul

[@msbramble176]

Noam Chomsky

[@RedXlV]

The options are either perpetual war by giving Russia whatever they demand every time they start a war (thus incentivizing them to keep starting wars) or a very quick war by defeating Russia.

[@Lurch685]

@@RedXlV Russia didn’t start this war though. They’re ending it.

[@RedXlV]

@@Lurch685 What a load of bullshit. There was no war until Russia attacked.

[@katholickblock]

this hasn't aged all too well...

[@gustavoritter7321]

No?

[@petertakov]

What has Varoufakis ever said or done, including as part of a communist Greek government, that turned out to be true or at least a step in the right direction? What is his credibility based on?

[@ThePtoleme]

Apparently his only point is that he once criticised Putin.

[@mariemaguire8386]

As far as I'm aware it's because he decided not to sell his country out completely to the EU when asked and then went to be candid about the offer he was made to do so whilst still being very pro EU. This made him a Lefty Darling, which he capitalised on in the media. What is and isn't true of it all is beyond my access and pay grade to discern.

[@josefk332]

Very good question indeed. I’m 8 minutes in and it’s clear the man doesn’t understand the nature of raw power at a geopolitical level. He thinks that a ‘neutral zone’ comprising the former soviet countries would have been good for Nato and good for Russia. I don’t think this would have been a recipe for stability - nature abhors a vacuum. He doesn’t recognise those countries applied to join Nato of their own volition - should they have been denied this sovereign right to associate with who they wish? Nor does he acknowledge that had they not, it’s very possible that we’d have found ourselves in the situation we currently find ourselves in with Ukraine years ago with one or more of those other nations, particularly those with significant Russian speaking minorities. Wherever there is a nuclear armed country whose leaders are in no way accountable to their own people then neighbouing states need to be very worried indeed.

[@am2608]

Freddie's guest selection of his guests on the topic of this war is quite disappointing in general in my humble opinion of Russian immigrant to the West. While I appreciate a desire to investigate alternative points of view, Freddie himself lacks certain background here and often cannot contest obvious flaws of what he is told by the guests. This one with Varoufakis is another example unfortunately.

[@petertakov]

@@mariemaguire8386 If you consider "selling your country" to be starting to repay or at least secure your debts before requesting more, then yes - you are correct.

[@geoeneas]

Seems Yanis was correct. There is no way Ukraine can beat the Russians.

[@jfjoubertable]

It is difficult to talk about because seldom in history is the dividing line between good and evil so clear as it is in Ukraine - this is not a time for deep reflection - we can do that later - as things stand now action is needed - I often agree with Yanis but not on this point - he's dead wrong

[@palimpalim5291]

"the dividing line between good and evil so clear as it is in Ukraine" And that would be?

[@katalinkiss120]

Nazis are being armed with billions of dollars worth of western arms - that's pretty evil

[@Stuntmandouble08]

True naziism is evil and needs to be extinct!

[@4K68]

I know little, but his argument (about 7:00 min in) that Bush agreed with Gorbachev to not expand NATO eastwards, is really not true. If you read the minutes between *Barker* and Gorbachev, *Barker* merely said 'I agree' to Gorbachev's adament viewpoint on this. Sure he spoke on behalf of his government, but these were talks, not formal negotiations. Those talks couldn't bind Bush or anyone else to any great degree. The issue they discussed was the unification of Germany, not this issue particularly, really. This can't be said to be a real agreement between the two states on that issue. Also, how/why should/could USA alone decide this policy on behalf of NATO? On whether expanding NATO was wise, I don't know. But let's try to free our analyses from quarter-truths and misinterpretations.

[@myla6135]

I guess the Russians learnt then that "my word is my bond" didn't work with the US. It's why I think it odd when some argue that "Ukraine Is never going to join Nato so why is Putin so worried" and think that settles things. He wants it in a legally binding treaty probably because of this.

[@MrKidOcelot]

I think your version of the pledge is revisionist to say the least!

[@1969fata]

@@myla6135 Exactly

[@willcruz943]

@@myla6135 In other words, the entire Eastern European countries including the Baltic states had no say in choosing their military alliances without the approval of Russia. Is that what you are implying?

[@willcruz943]

@@MrKidOcelot In other words, Eastern Europe and the Baltic States must remain as Russia’s vassals without a say in its defense or self interest because it is important to Russia.

[@fkndead454]

Around 28% of Russian forces have already been displaced. Russia never planned for a long war, and traditionally the defender is favored by a ratio of 3:1. Ukraine absolutely can win this given how badly Russia handled the first month.

[@gregslade4371]

Russia can call up more. The problem is not the army the problem is Putin.

[@fkndead454]

@@gregslade4371 most military is just for passive defense of the borders. they are scrambling and looking for Syrian mercs already, etc. losses are high, morale is low, military theory favors the defender 3:1 -- this is by no means a guaranteed victory for Russia.

[@guccidady]

@@fkndead454 Morale is all time high in Russia and the soldiers. Especially after the treatment of russian POW videos and the west demonize of the russian people

[@pekkanumminen81]

@@gregslade4371 Russia can call more of what? Forced conscript soldiers that have no military skills? Russia have already problems to give modern arms to troops they have, so there is lots of old weapons and tanks in Russian army.

[@andyyygane4713]

He's right about the warmongers "having a field day". I wonder whether the current intensity of the warmongering is connected with social media and the echo chambers. Algorithms!

[@jdevil8877]

To take the argument to it's absurd extreme, imagine if this set of circumstances has been set off by "the algorithm" (the current level of AGI) in parallel to how the Franz Ferdinand incident sparked WWI. To continue with the absurd delusional thought experiment, imagine "the algorithm" is manipulating or guiding each of us informationally in an overall way so that a series of events plays out which puts the AGI in a position to control the destiny of humanity, and imagine we're actually a decade into this algorithmic manipulation... Anyway, we live in interesting times.

[@andyyygane4713]

@@jdevil8877 Yes, I noticed it first with Google News. As far as I remember, it was experimental at first - you could opt in or out. They would decide what articles you would be interested in. Now I think it's impossible to opt out. So I no longer use it.

[@jdevil8877]

@@andyyygane4713 so here we are.

[@publicojornas1787]

Nuclear weapons side by side...but what would the US do if Russia put nuclear weapons in Mexico the same way America does on the Russian border?

[@agffans5725]

Hello Yanis Varoufakis, Sitting here in far-away Scandinavia, I think that Greece and Turkey should be the example and pave the way for a more peaceful Europe by leaving NATO, what do you think of that idea, or do this "solution" only work for you in Eastern Europe ?

[@mirish6947new]

What a stupid idea...Must be a fan of Putin

[@londresparis_1]

NATO should be disbanded.

[@agffans5725]

@@londresparis_1 .. Well, I can tell you one thing, and that is that every political party in the Danish parliament, from the right to the most far left that used to agree with Yanis Varoufakis about the abolishment of NATO as their first priority, now after this violent Putin rape of Ukraine believe that NATO is the only possible solution, at least for the time being. This is kind of a revolutional change in Danish politics, just as it is with Finland now wanting to join NATO. You may like it or not, but Finland joining NATO is now going to be a fact this year. I need to add that I do not care what you think of the USA and NATO, but believe in free speech and free choice, so I totally respect you siding with the Putin dictatorship and Russia against all that Scandinavia and Finland stands for. It's your personal choice to be the enemy of Scandinavia.

[@katalinkiss120]

@@agffans5725 there is only one dictatorship and it has over 800 bases (and expanding) all over the world where it has no business being

[@TesterAnimal1]

@@londresparis_1 CSTO should be disbanded. They have recklessly expanded right up to the borders of Europe.

[@anthonyferris8912]

Yes, NATO sat down and negotiated with Milošević and then he ended up on trial at The Hague……………So who thinks Putin is going to fall for that?

[@sekulicprodukcija007]

NATO never negotiated anything and Milosevic was destroying the court in Hague before being killed in prison. All that the aggression against Yugoslavia created back in '99 is today's narco state Kosovo. Since '99 Kosovo's been ethnically cleansed from all non albanian citizens, 100's of monasteries burned down and so on. NATO is an aggressor that can only fight a smaller states. Z

[@kofienrico2804]

Same Charles Taylor

[@BurfieldPhoto1]

It's grotesque to attempt to argue that smaller, weaker nations should be denied the right to collective self defense, because it "threatens" larger more powerful nations.

[@cathymartens7478]

It's not collective defence it's aggression. That's the problem. Ask the Cubans if they were allowed to do what they wanted. Russia was not allowed to join NATO, have you asked yourself why.

[@evanhuffman520]

@@cathymartens7478 Eat our collective asses, Russia showed no interest whatsoever in joining NATO and After Putin was appointed he had no interest in Democracy or the west only restoring Russia to the glory days of the Soviet Union and staving off political revolution within its own borders. Gtfo here BOT

[@Bike_Lion]

So you'd have no problem them if Mexico decided to join a "collective defense" pact with China and have China set up military bases on Mexican soil?...

[@BurfieldPhoto1]

@@Bike_Lion well, I don't really care if Mexico has a security agreement with China, no. You could say it's the US's fault for being such a crappy neighbor. I'm sure the US wouldn't like it, but I certainly would not think it reasonable for the US to invade Mexico to prevent it.

[@Bike_Lion]

@@BurfieldPhoto1 - That may well be your personal opinion, but you do realize that we nearly started WWIII when the Russians tried to put missiles in Cuba, right? And the Biden Admin made it clear back in Feb that they would not allow Russia to put missiles in Cuba or Venezuela now either. The US also fought a series of covert "dirty wars" in Central America back in the 1980s, all to prevent the Soviets from having any allies on the North American mainland - even though these countries don't directly border the US. So you can be the farm that the US would *absolutely* invade Mexico if China and/or Russia were to militarize it against the US the way the US has done with the Eastern European countries against Russia!

[@TheRealNickG]

Shortened for clarity and context from series Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, episode "Statistical Probabilities": SISKO: Surrender to the Dominion. Not on my watch. BASHIR: Sir, I understand how you feel. I don't like it any more than you do, but it's the best option. SISKO: But that doesn't mean we should just give up and roll over. BASHIR: If we fight, there will be over nine hundred billion casualties. If we surrender, no one dies. Either way we're in for five generations of Dominion rule. I know it's difficult to accept. SISKO: I don't accept it. Even if I knew with a hundred percent certainty what was going to happen, I wouldn't ask an entire generation of people to VOLUNTARILY give up their freedom. BASHIR: Not even to save over nine hundred billion lives? SISKO: Surrender is not an option. Now I'm happy to hear your group's advice on how to win this war, but I don't need your advice on how to lose it. BASHIR: We can't win this war. SISKO: I don't care if the odds are against us. If we're going to lose, then we're going to go down fighting so that when our descendants some day rise up against the Dominion, they'll know what they're made of. BASHIR: So we go down fighting. How terribly courageous of us...

[@proudhon100]

Russia is not the Dominion, but US/NATO resemebles Babylon the Great.

[@JaniAllanSA]

Brilliant

[@paulineliste4545]

The irony of this particular episode in history for me is, the decision to present this invasion as some monstrous behavior on the part of a Russian leader… we seem to have completely justified our outrage when this is in fact just one more example of aggressive behavior in the world. The NATO countries have invaded Iraq, and Afghanistan, supported the war on Yemen, trampled on Libya, killing their leader, ignoring stoning and death sentences for Saudi Arabian people never putting sanctions on that oil world… so it’s pretty difficult to embrace the making of a hero and a villain in this particular situation. I would be interested in a conversation about no longer using war as a means of asserting authority over other countries and people…

[@paulineliste4545]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards one can actually go further beyond the collapse of the USSR,,, we have not grown out of the Roman Empire, we still have thoughts and behaviors that have carried through the decades, empires have come and gone but none the less still an empire is the predominate desire , the new world order is just another extension of the same idea… another empire in the making, with players everywhere either in agreement or in the case of Russia disagreeing.. it is for this reason that the West is closing the dialogue and controlling the masses … I hope that there are supporting leaders that are willing to stand against the globalists… it is also imperative that we take action at the local community level as much as possible… what ideas do you have?

[@AP-rv8et]

Please remember how difficult it is for you to "embrace the making of a hero and a villain" when Russians show up at your doorstep in the next stage of the execution of the the Big Russia's dream of Eurasia from Lisbon to Vladivostock. Read about Dugin's ideas, Russian imperialism and the hatered of your culture. Ukraine is just another step in the execution of that "masterplan". Also, Ukraine has the right to choose how it wants to exist as a state and the two gentlemen have clearly forgotten about it,

[@AP-rv8et]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards Oh yeah, what a valid point you've just made. Lots of substance. Perhaps go through yesterday's news again and read what Medvedev reiterated about "Eurasia from Lisbon to Vladivostock" and then enjoy your safe Western-European life of plenty while you still can.

[@paulineliste4545]

@@AP-rv8et the depth of behaviors in this world can be unraveled like a ball of twine, when we get to the beginning of this one what do you think it looks like? Let’s refute the idea of a country for starters because what we actually have are groups of people within a group of people all living our lives as best we can. The dividing of humans starts by identifying an imaginary concept called countries… and from there are formulated a lot of supposed ideologies about that country… if you shed all this BS what is left is people…. What we have created is a world that has forgotten people are important , and we all feel the crimes against people, however the complexities of these situations do not allow for anyone person or group to be identified as the hero or the villain because neither one is willing to unravel their ball of twine and see the truth of what they are doing. So, during these times the outside forces come into play in the game of kick the ball around… and these forces engage we, sending us their messages, making it look as though we, the people, support what is being said, and to further complicate the situation truth is never told, the narrative is to support the position of the teller…so it for these reasons that I suggest that the hero/villain story is false…

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@AP-rv8et Please tell what is so wrong with UK parliament?

[@LiberNoster]

Iam wondering how it should be possible to give to Putin a possibility to retreat with "something" in his hands. After the slaughter in Butcha I don't think that this is possible - morally speaking. I wonder how the comparison with the Yugoslav wars will render it self possible. Yes the former Yugoslav countries are living now in peace and are prosperous. But in order to this some of their leaders had to sit in front of the UN Tribunal. Do we really believe that Putin or even one of his comrades will be sitting there? Do we really (and most of all the Ukrainians) want to make peace like nothing happened with war criminals? I do believe that Mr. Varoufakis is one of the smartest and best intellectuals of our time and I agree with a lot that he is saying, for severel years. And nobody should blame him and call him names. He deserves to be treated with respect. He is a man of dignity and very respectful as far as I can state from hearing his comments or seeing his lectures and reading his books. But in this case I cannot fully agree with him. Even if I support the idea, or the fact, that NATO and the West, are not innocent to this outcome. Peace has to be obtained. But peace is not only the absence of war or killing, it is the a state of justice and of self-determination. I cannot see how this should be obtained with war criminals left on their positions and poor people who have their loved ones killed should go on living like nothing ever happened. I suggest, that Ukraine should be armed and helped in order to be such a riskful "game" for Russia that it would be harmful for the Russians to go on. But this should be the decision of the Ukrainian people. If they want to fight, help them. They already lost their loved ones. I am sitting here in a warm flat and writing this, so I should shut up. But I miss that it will be discussed what the Ukrainian people want. We can talk about geopolitics but here it is about living and diying. Butcha is not a geopolitical strategy of Putin's but it is murder and warcrime.

[@soniavadnjal7553]

Ukraine has claimed Russians did Butcha, but that claim is somewhat questionable. A video shows the Mayor happy at the departure of Russian soldiers, no sign of bodies. 4 days later, another video, with bodies. The incident should be investigated before accusations are made.

[@LiberNoster]

@@soniavadnjal7553 And Kramatorsk? Who do you believe to be the causator of the poor peoples death? Should we wait till everything is clear, everything destroyed? More people killed? There can be no doubt that the Russian army is causing death in the civilian population.

[@DavidWattsBarton]

Strange to hear this guy declaring what's good for Eastern Europe....seems to me they had the right to decide for themselves, whether or not Russia and Varoufakis wanted them to be a "neutral zone."

[@BurntheKremlin966]

Everything was cool before a GENIUS THINK THAT AN INVASION WAS A GOOD IDEA.

[@brunobeloff9611]

While we can understand UnHerd's need for an entertaining guest, we can also breathe a sigh of relief that Yanis Varoufakis no longer has any political influence in the world. The thrust of Varoufakis' argument is that (1) Putin is a war criminal, and (2) his neighbouring countries should placate Putin to the extent of being neutral. As usual, he cannot see the elephant in the room... Because Varoufakis is an ideologue, it is natural for him to ignore that fact that gaining NATO membership was popular in the countries where this happened. In this case, democracy and logic meet: it is not Europe's job to placate Putin, it is our job to trip him up. The combination of Russian political corruption, Ukrainian bravery and NATO weaponry is doing that trick. NATO involvement can, should, and will ramp up until the job is done. Back to the elephant: peace is not the absence of war, it is something much more profound. No peace can be made with Putin, and any pretence at such a peace is destabilising. So better join NATO and have the fight now. NATO, with Ukraine, can, will and must win this conflict. The outcome is for certain a liberated Ukraine and, very likely, a liberated, post-Putin Russia. Incidentally, at 06:50 - Varoufakis makes an incorrect statement: there was no such agreement. James Baker did suggest to Gorbachev that NATO non-expansion might be offered in return from Soviet withdrawal from East Germany, but Bush quickly nixed the deal.

[@peterhooper2643]

"So better join NATO and have the fight now." ... I don't think Ukraine should stop fighting, maybe they can win. But to suggest that NATO should be involved is insane war-mongering that could literally lead to nuclear war. Almost ANYTHING is preferable to nuclear war. You clearly have admirable hopes for world peace, but conflict between nuclear powers like U.S and Russia could be how the story of human civilization ends

[@brunobeloff9611]

​@@peterhooper2643 A Ukrainian politician recently said "You don't provoke Putin by attacking him, you provoke him by showing weakness." For our part, we have to understand the risk of action, versus the risk of inaction: if Putin wins in Ukraine, it will not end there, and the risk of nuclear war will multiply. We will achieve peace when the Russians replace their leader; failure in Ukraine is their best hope of achieving this. And NATO is involved now - providing weapons, logistics, training, space, aerial and signals intelligence. So far, the sky has not fallen on our heads.

[@peterhooper2643]

@@brunobeloff9611 I 95% agree with you, but "the sky hasn't fallen on our heads" because of the restraint of people we cannot rely on. Neither Putin nor Biden. Hopefully this conflict ends, but further aggression from the west/NATO won't help

[@ejiroovie9232]

Very well said by Yanis. The only issue is the US doesn't want peace. I'm also shocked that discussing weapons contractors and their hold over US government is seen as something conspiractorial. These people practically own the media.

[@palimpalim5291]

Which POTUS did warn us about the Industrial Military Complex? Was it FDR?

[@katalinkiss120]

There is a conspiracy I agree between media, corporations and government to profit from war or even a pandemic

[@ejiroovie9232]

@@palimpalim5291 I think it was Eisenhower

[@palimpalim5291]

@John Pryce Wrong- Guess again.

[@tikaanipippin]

What do you think now, Yanis Varoufakis? How about you, Freddie?

[@richbitting8221]

Please remember that Putin's stated justification for this war is not the possibility of NATO expansion, but the myth of Ukrainian existence. It seems difficult to negotiate a compromise on this issue. I applaud reasonable discussions of alternative positions. I'm less enamored of European critics who look to the USA as being the guarantor of European prosperity.

[@proudhon100]

Putin has not justified the war on the basis of any ukrainian myth of existence. That is a flat-out lie. Some Russian writers have pointed to the role the Soviet Union played in creating its present borders.

[@nicolasgarcia248]

Wrong.

[@garyroach8624]

Let's send Ukraine aid ! while Europe and the west is doing so the IMF and the the private banks have just collected part of their 7 + billion dollar interest due this year alone from Ukraine and Want to lend them more money ! if they need aid why not cancel their debt ? it is the devastated people we all feel for that has the burden of paying back that debt. I think money and profits do have a bearing on this war.

[@mystryfine3481]

Respect to UnHerd for giving Yanis time to share his views.

[@antoniodesousa9723]

will there be a inquiry quickly to find who is responsible and before the crime scene gets compromised

[@silverlight2004db]

russia has advocated for an independent inquiry by the UNSC but the uk has vetoed it

[@katalinkiss120]

Yes that would be the rational thing to do

[@guser7137]

Talking about a deal between the US, Ukraine, EU and Russia is a folly. It has already happened, and it was broken by Ukraine. How would it be different this time? There needs to be an off ramp, but it''s increasingly clear that certain groups do not want this conflict to be resolved.

[@davskol]

This apologetical stance on Russian aggression is almost like we should have supported The UK in case they would not have accepted the decolonization, losing their empire after WW2. "- yes we must understand that the British feel hurt, how could this Gandhi be so insensitive to the feelings of the proud British people, we must accept British world domination"

[@tinklanjscek2700]

I love Yanis, but he got many things wrong here. Russia's default was primarily the fault of complete and utter failure of the Russian economy to modernize. Poland and others are MUCH safer for being in NATO - Putin stated MANY times he wants parts of Poland and the Baltic states. Clearly NATO is the only thing in Putin's way. Third, Ukraine is barred from hosting nuclear weapons of any kind, and other Eastern European contries are NOT having them (thinking about it now, though).

[@albertdittel8898]

Exactly where has Putin said that he wants parts of Poland?

[@tinklanjscek2700]

@@albertdittel8898 Indeed, he may want the whole thing but the stuff he typically talks about concerns the 'buffer zone' i.e. only requires parts of Poland - probably just those they arranged with Hitler. But you're right, they may want the whole thing - certainly it's chilling how matter of fact they talk about Lithuania (aka corridor to Kaliningrad) and Transnistria... the excerpt is about the nuclear threat, but notice how they take the idea of taking Transnistria and Lithuania as a given kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXfdoXSjZ5atqLc

[@mutkaluikkunen3926]

Putin may want many things, but he's not getting any of them. Russian troops will be swatted like a bug if they invade a NATO country and starts a WW 3. And that's going to end either in a victory parade in Moscow by NATO allies OR a global thermonuclear war. So, in that light, an attempt to get a sliver of Poland and the Baltics would have an extremely high price and no chances in succeeding.

[@eidolonish]

NATO is not a humanitarian organisation. NATO is a gun, and just because the barrel is pointed away from us doesn't mean that it it is not a threat to those it is pointed at.

[@mutkaluikkunen3926]

@@eidolonish That's pure fiction. NATO is not a threat to any country. It's not unpredictable and doesn't go around invading places for no reason. And as we can see, NATO has abstained from entering into conflict with Russia in Ukraine even though Russia is committing crimes against humanity on a regular basis. If NATO was itching to start a conflict, like you insinuate, then this would be the perfect moment. There's no logic in your claims.

[@jacekkalinowski694]

It is great to have a neutral zone between Russia and NATO. Ukraine was exactly this and what has just happened? If You are a neutral zone for whom nobody would stand You are there to be taken by the evil superpower. Not undersanding this even in the face of this war does not do a lot of credit to the speaker.

[@palimpalim5291]

What happened? CIA staged a coup in 2014, like they ALWAYS do. Sometimes unsuccessfully like in Venezuela.

[@TesterAnimal1]

CSTO expanded to the borders of Europe. We need a special military operation to denazify Belarus!

[@palimpalim5291]

@@TesterAnimal1 Another comedian! Can you also play piano with your dingeling like your colleague Zelensky?

[@fluffybunny7089]

I don't think many people are talking about Ukraine winning the war being the same as them invading Russia. A victory for Ukraine could be something to the extent of them being able to inflict enough pain to kick the Russians out. With the sanctions in place Russia should have a harder time building long range weapons and Ukraine could be provided with. After everything that's happened there might not be a lot of possibility for a formal treaty, just a recognition that neither side will be able to make gains.

[@mikska]

Sanctions or no sanctions , Russia produces everything needed for long range precision weapons, that includes micro chips.

[@monicavelascoariza914]

No mention of the nazis. Why?

[@michaelschweiger1635]

Varoufakis argues against “warmongers” who want to invade Moscow (26:20). Strange tough that there is nobody else who talks about this. He gets the basics wrong in my opinion.

[@adamwatson6916]

There are many other people who talk about nato expansion and the desire for regime change war in Russia and installing a western puppet in Moscow . Chiris Hedges Richard wolf Max Blumenthal Noam Chomsky Aaron Matte Richard Medherst Whitney Webb Alex Mcouris Alex Christophorro Convo Couch and many many more. US politicians in rhe house and senate and top military brass are openly calling for direct war with Russia on Russian soil . 2 years ago Adam Schiff was openly saying we need to arm Ukraine so we can fight Russia over there so we don't have to fight them here . NATO is not just a defensive organization. Wanting to Gian control of Russia and install a western Friendly neo liberal like Boris Yeltsin . This is not some rare a fringe opinion . If you think Yanis is the only one saying this you them you need to expand your horizons. This has been openly discussed by many for the last 20 years. The US does not care about the Ukrainian people and they will fight Russia right down to the last Ukrainian . The Wongers who want war with Russia are doing everything they can to escalate The US has a history if this . IRAQ Afghanistan Vietnam . I suppose you have not heard about the warmonger wanting war with China ?

[@anarchorepublican5954]

Russian Regime Change (i.e. getting rid of Putin)...which I have heard bandied about... would require the Invasion of Moscow...

[@michaelschweiger1635]

@@anarchorepublican5954 Not really. A push out of Russian troops from Ukraine,could trigger Putins downfall.

[@anarchorepublican5954]

@@michaelschweiger1635 from your lips to the ears of Mars⚔🏛🏺... But Dictators tend to be resilient... even the unpopular ones...(and Putin is not unpopular). ...Unpopular tyrant Saddam Hussein was not toppled... after he was expelled from Kuwait...

[@brianarps8756]

I have have been following Varifoukis for over five years, and I usually agree with him and disagree with him at each and every turn. He argues in circles, setting a series of propositions and then denying the logical outcome of his own arguments. For example he states that Russia has done poorly in the Ukraine and Putin has had a bloody nose. But also that Ukraine cannot win. He does not notice that Russia has successfully occupied and holding an area larger than Greece. He wants to save lives by stopping the war unfinished. But he must know that unfinished wars usually cost more lives. How an unfinished war helps NATO or Russia or Ukraine he does not say. He drives me mad.

[@stevenw2933]

Theres no inconsistency, you can have a bloody nose while winning a fight or a war. You can have peaceful unresolved wars that technically hasn’t ended. Despite the rhetoric, if you look at North/South Korea, it is a stable and generally peaceful situation, same with Mainland China and Taiwan. Those wars technically never ended, but there hasn’t been meaningful amount of casualties on either side for 70ish years.

[@brianarps8756]

@@stevenw2933 Do you think Ukraine would volunteer to be North Korea? But V must know that The only way this war can end is by a victory by Russia or against Russia. He rules out the latter, and I tend to agree with him. Mathematics is on his side. Clearly the US wants this war to go on forever. Their tolerance for extended war is legendary. Ask Cuba. Or North Korea. He argues against this reality, "To save lives". A noble sentiment but no substitute for a plan.

[@donttellmejustlisten4598]

@@brianarps8756 lol sir let me correct you it was cuba who had the tolerance not the another way , a tiny little country resisting the worlds No 1 superpower is quite a feat for cubans not america .and same for vietnam and Afghanistan.

[@brianarps8756]

@@donttellmejustlisten4598 Good point. But Ukraine will get tired of war before the uSA will.

[@chrism415]

Yes, I agree. He has some sort of personal agenda it seems. Not straightforward.

[@samuelturner1668]

Yanis sounds sensible, but I feel as though he wants Ukraine to give up and stop fighting. I am left-wing and a NATO-sceptic, but I am also fully behind Ukraine and believe that it is up to them how long they want to fight for. Any anti-imperialist will be anti-Putin, but will also believe that there is ultimately no Western solution to conflicts in undeveloped countries. The Ukrainian people must choose their own future, and we must support them.

[@nicolasgarcia248]

If that is what you think. Why are you supporting ukraine? People in Donbas doesnt deserve to be supported? The 8 years bombing campain from ukraine over donbas is ok to you? For 8 years nobody cared about those Who dont want to be ukranians any more.

[@jishnuadhikari5234]

Undeveloped countries???

[@samuelturner1668]

@@jishnuadhikari5234 yes. Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe. It is significantly poorer than many non-European countries as well.

[@palimpalim5291]

You are wrong on many accounts. First of all - the USA is imperialistic, Russia is not. They even openly admit it, just listen to what their think tanks say in public. Second of all - the mere fact that Zelensky plays with fire by trying to get into NATO to put even more missiles and bioweapon labs to Russias borders is the very reason for the invasion. Third of all - it is the Russians who have offered negotiations from day 1, while Zelensky armed women and children to make them targets the Russians never intended and sent his Nazi battalion Asow to abuse them as human shields in Mariupol. And lastly - Zelensky plays his advantage of the Western criminal governments shutting down all Russian news outlets for his war mongering towards WWIII while the UN DENIES the Russian pleas to send inspectors into the regions of alleged war crimes. Because they know who commits them - the very same Nazis that have been bombing nurseries, schools and hospitals in Donbass for 8 years.

[@samuelturner1668]

@@palimpalim5291 Russia is imperialist because it is invading Ukraine. Putin rubbishes the idea of Ukrainian sovereignty, and sees it as an extension of Russia. The Ukrainian people voted for independence by 92.3%. They do not want to become part of Russia and that is why they are fighting back. The idea that the right-wing fascist Putin is an anti-imperialist is laughable.

[@shooster5884]

One area he didn't mention, or did I miss that was ... What about the Donbas in any future end to this war?

[@palimpalim5291]

Neither did he mention the Minsk treaties that are an essential issue in this conflict.

[@molliestanton8457]

@@palimpalim5291 I thought V mentioned Minsk in passing, without going into it.

[@marietemplin]

Yanis 🫶, always spot on! It’s now a year later.

[@jokvalvaag]

Thank you for your opinions, guys. If you are going to ask these questions - and you should! - then you also need to ask why Eastern European states want and wanted the protection that NATO provides. The foundation for such a view is that if they had stayed neutral, Putin's Russia would not have re-militarized and sought to rebuild the USSR. Given that Putin clearly has an imperialistic mindset - wanting to re-establish Russia as also an economic super power: You seem to have bought the argument that NATO expansion has everything to do with Russia's sense of security and not about economic hegemony. This is a stands you share with neo-realists like Mearsheimer, but this does not seem to be an entirely reasonable assumption: it is certainly not the view of NATO's new members - or that of Finland and Sweden now after this invasion. You need to justify this view.

[@robertm7381]

Thank you. I agree that to come to an even more wholistic view this question of „Why Eastern European, non-NATO states want to join NATO in the first place?“ must be raised. Protecting those countries from a Russian invasion through protection (NATO) but also through not provoking Russia by exactly those means seems a very difficult line to walk. Especially as we can not read the minds of the Russian elite who makes those kinds of decisions. 

And maybe there never was a chance to stop an invasion of Eastern Europe by Russia in the first place. Either they would have done it because there is no NATO protection, or they would have done it to prevent a NATO membership of those countries. 
 What we might be able to observe is that the way the West navigated this complicated situation did not lead to a prevention of an invasion of Ukraine/Eastern Europe by Russia. Was that the West’s fault?
Was it a partly it’s fault?
Difficult to say. Important to ask those questions? Yes, I believe so, so we can learn from it and do better in the future. 
 However, I think Yanis reminds us of something extremely important here. Right now, as the war wages on and people are dying and suffering, our main focus and efforts want to be focus on „How can we end this war and save lives - on both sides - as quickly as possible?“
 Sun Tzu is to have said „Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.“ So if we agree, that what is most important is to end the war as soon as possible (and let’s not shy away from this question, too, and allow an honest discussion about whether that is what is most important and if that is the actual agenda of our leaders), then our efforts must go there. And then building Putin a golden bridge, though of course it would be more than natural for us to feel a strong resistance to help Putin retreat in such a way as many would want him to see emotionally and politically defeated, might be in highest alignment with our values. We quote Sun Tzu till this day, because he was a very wise man. It isn’t easy to be wise. But if lives are on the line, maybe we can let go of our pride a little and tap in to the wisdom that is asked forward to solves this conflict. But this is just what I think, dear reader. What do you think? Where do you agree? Where do you disagree? What important perspectives are missing?

Join the discussion so we can come together, learn from one another and find better solutions - together

[@rositasultana3958]

We asked for many years and had to meet certain standards to join NATO. Greece was lucky to be a part of the alliance and is not threatened like Romania, due to its geographical position în the Bessarabian gap. Like Poland and its Fulda gap, or the Baltic states. Russia is on its last gasp, going swiftly to its demographical demise. We won't accept to get down with them. Let's do our best to save most, if not all of Ukraine before the new iron curtain will fall at the Russian border. Slava Ukraini!

[@AaSs-ln9mm]

@@rositasultana3958 So you want to go down with NATO? Most of the NATO countries didnt great at the demography either.

[@rositasultana3958]

@@AaSs-ln9mm Have you heard about immigration...? We won't face that problem. Everyone seems to enjoy the civilized world. Russians ( the qualified ones) are leaving mother Russia.

[@WilkinsMichael]

@@robertm7381 But do we get to decide for them? What if they prefer short-term pain for the chance of long-term gain? They have good reasons to resist Russian domination.

[@puccaso]

Europe never cared about what happened in Chechenya. Maybe the colours in our flag were wrong.

[@ThePtoleme]

Chechnya is far away, even in the former Yugoslavia Europe remained indifferent for a long time.

[@buzzbuzzard3809]

Do Chechens care about the massacres in Myanmar?

[@puccaso]

@@buzzbuzzard3809 I think humans care about other humans. I think regions are abstract nouns.

[@palimpalim5291]

@@ThePtoleme As they did in Greece when our heroes struggled for freedom from Ottoman occupation. As they did when the Young Turks slaughtered women and children by the thousands in Smyrna, coloring the sea red. As they always do, except when it servers THEIR interests. Whoever believes that the USA or any Western country does a SINGLE THING out of compassion for other peoples, is lost.

[@butterflybeatles]

Listen to Alex Christoforou, also from Athens, Greece.

[@rebyass]

Alex Christoforou the Kremlin asset, who runs a Russian funded Kremlin propaganda travel. Sure.

[@iakona23]

No, he is paid Russian information warfare. I’ve been tracking The Duran for years.

[@everready2903]

@@iakona23 You get a side (esp from Alexander Mercouis) that western media will never let you hear! Even RT is banned because we're not allowed hear anything that's not what they want us to hear. We're apparently not mature enough to receive information and make our own opinion. A bit like covid. But we're the free world looooool

[@Shea11bee]

@@iakona23 En estos tiempos es hasta recomendable escuchar la versión de la otra cara de la moneda. Uno mismo puede usar su sentido común y su conocimiento para sacar sus propias conclusiones ante tanta desinformación. La propaganda viene de ambos lados, no sean tontos.

[@lolcat5303]

@@iakona23 Meanwhile you sound like you're an unpaid moral exhibitionist/propagandist, complete with the flag.

[@konstantinosantoniou7486]

" ... There is no way that the ukrainian army is going to to defeat the panoply of the ruussian army ..." As a greek who was introduced to Varoufakis way before most of the people out there and who I genuinely think I know more deeply than most of his international audience, I can't say I am not thrilled by the way has been proved so massively wrong on that. Please! Call him back on the show to reconsider

[@psychologianiestacjonarna6558]

The Ukrainian cannot win... it also has been proved by the Vietnamese vs the U.S., the Greeks vs the Ottomans and many other examples... It's called the "Souvlakis science" 😁

[@freeloader247]

Where was he wrong? Ukraine is out of infrastructure, 100k kia(at least). Is that looks like winning?

[@kevinswift8654]

Is there any sign that Russia is just going to retreat and call it a day? Progress in pushing them back is not the same as a cessation of hostilities.

[@psychologianiestacjonarna6558]

@@kevinswift8654 So what's the other option for Ukraine, in your opinion?

[@kevinswift8654]

@@psychologianiestacjonarna6558 Varoufakis proposed an interesting solution.

[@dichebach]

Mr. Varoufakis may not believe that Ukraine can "win,' but then again Mr. Varoufakis is completely unqualified to make such a judgement.

[@Fine_Times]

I really enjoyed the discussion. Freddie can you also look into the ukranian National debt to imf and the world central bank ..plus hedge funds ... That would be interesting

[@gammaraygem]

Just another pirouette in the same old dance. And they cant get enough of it. Do not deserve any better.

[@andrewnorris5415]

Russel Brand touched on this in a recent vlog.

[@Fine_Times]

@@andrewnorris5415 that's right. I saw that too. As you Say he touched on It . I would like some more investigation if poss.

[@havocgr1976]

As someone from a country that was under IMF,it doesn't even matter much if Ukraine wins, the IMF and western companies will just take half their country for peanuts to repay the debts.They are already ruined.

[@Metalblowing]

As a Ukrainian, some thoughts here are quite interesting, some are less interesting or even realistic. On the part of the international agreements, everyone brings up this NATO expansion topic... why nobody brings up the agreement between UK, US, and Russia to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine & its people? Russia signed a document that it will be one of Ukraine's protectors but instead if actively undermined our political system, which lead to war in 2014 and continues to this day. Ukraine had 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in our country and we willingly gave it all up because we were promised protection. Second part, neutral zones are nice on paper but do we have a precedent were this worked? Don't forget about the Baltic nations, Poland, Georgia, Finland, and Sweden who are all scared of Russia. Some what Yanis is proposing (as a part of NATO) is that NATO should avoid all other countries as long as it protects Greece. There should be a neutral zone where it is OK to kill people, rape women, do totalitarian crimes as long as it's not near Greece. Thanks mate. Third part, sanctions work. It takes time. I would love if EU/US just banned everything but it's impossible. I understand that many countries depend on russian exports. So slowly but surely the nose is tightening around Putin's neck. As for ordinary people, there is no ordinary people in Russia. My family is half Russian, I've been to Russian dozens & dozens of times. I know that Russian population supported war in Georgia, Syria, Afghanistan, and Ukraine. They are brainwashed and they like when Russian army is destroying other nations & countries, they feel great about this imperialistic plan of Putin. I read how some people said that sanctions will only make it worse, trust me, it can't get worse because their soldiers already rape women and kids in Ukraine - these people are lost to humanity. It's also evident that Russians forgot how US supported them during WW2, how US supported with food in 1993 an on. Millions of Russions would starve to death because of lack of food. And the bulk on this is on the soviet government, which was inefficient and destroyed its own economy in the 80s and on. Fourth, seize fire would be awesome but Putin won't go for this. Today, 3 hours ago, a rocket flew above my apartment (I literally saw it) and this rocket hit a civilian car repair shop. Not a military object but a private business for fixing and detailing cars. Ukraine, Lviv. He doesn't give a fuck about civialins, seize fire, laws or regulations. He also PROMISED the whole world to not invade Ukraine. We all know what happened. I don't expect people to feel sorry for Ukraine. There's enough issues in the world to go around. Only thing I'm asking everyone to do is - educate yourself. If you think this conflict is somehow NATO's issue, do read about the history of Russia (how its secret service never changed the building he occupy, how they had less heads of secret service than presidents, and how "siloviki" are ruling the country), read about history of Ukraine (how Katherine the Great was "rusificating" Ukrainians 300 years ago, how Stalin committed a genocide in 1930s, how Putin's friend Medvechuk prosecuted Ukrainian poet in the 1985 for using Ukrainian language), read about disinformation. This war is only for the Ukrainians to win, we'll do our best. But if you think that some dictator will stop or that you can somehow bargain with him... you guys are deeply mistaken. And I only wish that you don't have a nuclear warlord tyrant on your border, a tyrant that openly admits that your nation has no right to exist and show be extinct.

[@RobBCactive]

The 1994 agreement IS discussed, but guarantee was watered down to assurances. It was not a defence pact, it was nuclear non-proliferation. Now Russia has indeed broken that treaty and every other treaty that brought peace to Europe. Firstly I don't think Yanis is right, Russia is much weaker and depleted it's weapons reserves showing off in Syria. I know there is a genuine will to give Ukraine the tools to win. The sanctions with private corporates pulling out may degrade Russia's ability to continue. Putin's having to barter gold, effectively it creates 2 currencies. However unless Vladolf Putin escalates I suspect the most threatened NATO countries, don't really allow NATO to start WW3. Personally if the USAF and elite NATO divisions move into Ukraine it will likely result in use of tactical nukes. That doesn't help Ukrainians. I am sorry Ukraine/Georgia were not admitted to NATO in 2008, many see that as an error, we saw Putin didn't respect the buffer idea but was pushing to make Ukraine his puppet state.

[@zachthornton8337]

Thank you sharing your thoughts and experiences. Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦

[@RobBCactive]

Time to add now, you are spot on when you point out the moral hypocrisy Yanis is indulging in. I suspect it is a communist acceptance of human rights violations. Your analysis is well thought out, a credit to Ukraine, you are right about Russians, I fear. 🇺🇦 Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

[@Unbrutal_Rawr]

It takes a staggering level of mendacity to blame Russia for Ukraine's 2014 coup in which US/EU-backed oligarchs used far-right extremist to hijack peaceful demonstrations and overthrow the Russia-backed democratically elected oligarchs, with US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland handing out doughnuts to demonstrators when she wasn't busy coordinating who should be installed as the next Ukrainian president. Truly impressive.

[@zachthornton8337]

@@Unbrutal_Rawr You speak as if the Putin regime had not already been hijacking Ukrainian elections for a decade or more before the Maidan revolution. What do you figure the Orange Revolution was about? Yanukovych was a puppet ruler for the corrupt dictatorship in Russia. It would have kept Ukraine ever poorer and more subservient to Russian whims. All the while their Eastern European neighbours continue to surge ahead economically. Just compare the trajectories of Poland and Ukraine post-1991. Ukraine had a bigger economy in 1991 but now Poland's GDP per capita is at least 3 times greater than Ukraines. Ukraine post-Maidan has immense problems still with corruption and with far-right militias empowered by the war started by Russia. However, they're trying to move forward to create a country based on the rule of law and individual rights. Ukrainians now have a founding story of resistance to Russian imperialism. They won't die no matter how many Putin apologists are willing to twist events in the name of a Russian war of conquest. Ultimately, Ukrainians have agency and for all the meddling of NATO and Russia in their country Ukrainians want to be free and in charge of their own destiny. They can find this within the EU and allied with the West but with Russia there is only serfdom and destruction.

[@peaceandlove1436]

Yanis is correct. Stop arming Ukraine. Vote for peace.

[@trex8930]

I've never been a fan of UnHerd, but their attempt to act as an honest broker in this conflict has been commendable. Long may it continue

[@hellodavey1902]

What a weird comment. If you see UnHerd as being an "honest broker" in this debate/topic, where have they not been?!

[@boxcutter0]

Have a fair discussion for a couple of days, then come to a reasonable conclusion, Putin & much of Russia are a scourge on humanity, they should be forced to eat each other in Siberia, they are apparently too pathetic as humans to be capable of governing themselves.

[@garyswank1043]

Unherd specializes in providing an opportunity for contrary voices to be herd. (Hehe) Invaluable!

[@trackdusty]

I agree with Freddie about "Putin's defeat"...so send in the English sissies...you first then the useless, duplicitous Greek Finance Minister.

[@TheOlzee]

Don’t make sense

[@sylvia8112]

It's extremely cheeky to say to eastern European people to stay neutral, if you don't know or don't remember what had happened to them in the past, what history they had with Russian and how many their citizens were murdered by Russia , you should never give such a stupid comment.

[@brunischling9680]

Excuse me , but I am German and I am fully aware of the suffering that my country has inflicted on the world. I do however expect people to see that we have moved on in history and that being stuck in patterns of the past is extremely damaging to all sides.

[@dnyhan]

@Bruni Schling Germany hasn't been aggressive since 1945. So you are correct in the context of Germany. Russia has been an agressor against Chechnya, Georgia, Moldova, Syria, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Ukraine. In that context, your statement does not seem to make sense.

[@kofienrico2804]

Germany was part of Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. Don't forget that. Also Germany is only independent and united since 1990 so to say peaceful since 1945 is a bit misleading when Germans could only really decide after unification. German myself.

[@Norasi]

@Sylvia. You always say what Russia has done to the countries of Eastern Europe, but objectively, for you this is just an excuse to maintain a negative attitude towards this country. The most terrible things that have ever been done in Europe by Germany and its allies during World War II in relation to the Jews of all countries of Eastern Europe and, of course, in relation to the Soviet people. Nothing can replace that. So what? In the Soviet Union, this fact was experienced internally, and gradually even began to cooperate with the Germans, even if on an instinctive level the German language caused a violent reaction for many years. Poland, to this day, builds its policy on hatred of Russia, even became a mutt of the United States, which can be set against Russia. We don't pay attention to Poland, it's like an elephant and a pug, but it won't bring her success. It has long lost its sovereignty because of such a policy. Change your mindset, otherwise we will not get along on the continent of Eurasia.

[@Norasi]

@@dnyhan Stop with false info. Chechnya was internal conflict with terrorists. In Syria Russia was only one country according to the international law that could fight the ISIS , because was invited by the president. Georgia attacked the South Osezia and Russians peacemakers first, this is confirmed by international court. Belarus and Kazahstan??? You are completly ignorant about real facts. I advice you to study more.

[@gooner9038]

On the Ukrainians defending their sovereignty: " "Madness! There's no way the Ukrainian Army is going to defeat the panoply of the Russian Army." Yanis need to stick to those things he actually knows something about. When you find out what that is, let me know.

[@FrancoisMouton-iu7jt]

Listen to col.Douglas Mcgregor. He agrees with Yannis and certainly has the experience and the knowledge to know what he is talking about.

[@gooner9038]

@@FrancoisMouton-iu7jt Douglas McGregor also said that if Ukraine didn't surrender within 24 hours of the invasion they would be annihilated. He also said, just a couple of months ago, that Ukraine has lost 400,000 troops killed in action. He's an Trump-level lunatic and no rational person listens to anything that nutjob says.

[@nelatuhtan265]

Our president (Croatian, Zoran Milanović), put the evidence of the recent atrocities against the Ukranian civilians (in Buča) by the Russians in question. More specifically, when asked about it, he did not say "I condemn it"; he said something along the lines "I don't know whether it really happened or not, and I will not comment on it further".

[@lolcat5303]

Clever man not to just believe all the BS spewed by the ukrainian propaganda machine and the propagandistic MSM in the west.

[@igorvuk4454]

Milanović je seljačina i ima debele i dokazane veze s ruskim parama. Bio je dobar dok je udarao kontra korone, ali je isto tako i bio na korona partijima, nije ništa bolji od ostale ekipe po kojoj pljuje. Štoviše, opasniji je.

[@aswad1371]

Independent investigations opposed by Britain, 🤔

[@palimpalim5291]

AFAIK your president is also among the most reasonable in the entire Covid hysteria. Other than our regime in Austria ...

[@nygus3835]

Narrow-minded politicians replace competitiveness with sanctions driven by greed and shortsightedness. Why don't you support closing military industry instead of coal mines being an intl pacifist? There was a Polish initiative of Central Europe as de-nuked demilitarized zone. Why not reviving it?

[@alexandrecravo8618]

Oh boy, that aged like the Russian soldiers in Ukraine

[@Funkywallot]

Im watching it now. Its hilarious how someone with no expertise are so convinced about a _belief_ hahaha´. It was guess work all the way camouflaged as great insight. He fooled us all

[@Beyondhumanlimits1]

speaking too soon aren't you. How is Ukraine winning the war? The West is getting tired of the war. We've got our own economic problems and the West is slowly but surely sending less and less bullets. Defeat is inevitable, now it depends how you define it.

[@Funkywallot]

@@Beyondhumanlimits1 Yours is another piece of guesswork or personal opinion badly put together not reading in how the west is firmly committed. How the west define victory ? Well lets start with the Ruzzians never be able to take Kiev and turn UA into a RU puppet state. The rest will eventually solve

[@finestrellacaustica]

Did it, now? 🤔

[@iolo6933]

No. I stopped listening at the end of the first quarter owing to Varoufakis not having taken into account Putin's personal, imperial, and deluded ambitions to reclaim the string of former Soviet states.

[@gravygravyjosh]

I don't think he wants to reclaim them, he doesn't want them falling in the American sphere of influence where they'll serve as a base to destabilize and break up the RF, which is the real neocon goal

[@iolo6933]

@@gravygravyjosh Please supply inarguable evidence that "the neocons" have a plan to "break up" Russia.

[@johnlaudenslager706]

Wonderful analysis of the legitimacy of Ukraine to resist and the west to assist. That Ukraine can't win is pretty clear, unless the Russian military collapses. But the west should do what it can to not let Putin win, either, because winning is a reward and rewarded behavior is reinforced behavior. I really like what Les Pringle said.

[@dianepeel7154]

Yanis talk about appeasing Russia, appeasing the bully. How did that work in WWII when Hitler invaded Greece and so many other nations. History has taught us that the free world must stand up to the bully as early and as forceful as possible. Weakness does not satiate the bully, it only makes the bully hungrier. It's the same on a personal level or a global one. Why does Yanis blame NATO for this? It's like an abused wife blaming herself for being beaten instead of her violent drunken husband. Appease Russia, and they will smell weakness. A couple tears later, they will grab Moldova, a slice of Romania, and maybe the Baltic nations. It all depends how weak they perceive the West to be. I absolutely disagree with Yanis. He needs to study history more carefully and stop being such an idealist. And why doesn't he blame Russia for interventions into the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and Africa? Putin has been violent and aggressive for two decades. Yanis is nothing less than an enabler, the same type of well-intentioned idealsts that enabled Hitler.

[@MarcoDollenz]

yes yes yes well stated

[@MarcoDollenz]

Ukraine must defeat and push Russia out of its territory with western help

[@rantinginavacuum8658]

The West constantly trying to push Russia into a corner is what started this. NATO's an aggressive military bloc that is a massive threat to independent nations, has engaged in more war and killed more civilians over the past 3 decades than Russia has. and the Western powers in general have a habit of regime change that destabilises and ruins entire regions of the world. Maybe stop being such murderous, imperialist sods that the rest of the world always has to be worried that the West will decide to bomb their countries, killing hundreds of thousands. Many of us outside of the West are getting very tired of having your norms forced onto us, while you take our resources because none of you produce enough to maintain your own societies. "Oh, don't appease the bullies," she says, while the military bloc she supports leverages its financial system and the American military to force the entire world to behave according to the expectations of a well-armed minority in the West. The West is the bully whose hunger the rest of us can no longer afford to satiate. Russia's just the first to take a firm stand - as horrible as this war is, it also represents the developing/emerging world pushing back against the developed world's abuse of the power it's gotten used to having over us all.

[@nei892]

WW2 analogies still don't work bc Russia is still a nuclear superpower whereas Nazi germany still wasn't. According to your logic both parties ought to have blown each other up 10 times over. Please just don't engage in geopolitics if you're not willing to to do so seriously.

[@Mark-ug6fx]

Would you apply same theory to the USA and it's murderous history,Putin is a stick in the eye as apposed to the tree

[@tausyankee]

Well that aged well

[@steveedmonds5592]

The priority HAS to be stopping the killing... Sue for peace now. Well argued, as always by Yanis Varoufakis.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

But the NeoCons (eg Victoria Nuland) want to keep this going and use the Ukrainian army to destabilise Russia.

[@palimpalim5291]

The Russians are only interested in crushing the Nazis and demilitarizing Ukraine. It is Zelensky and his Nazi henchmen that drag the Ukrainian civilians into this and abuse them as human shields.

[@hglundahl]

15:51 I think there have been news even Putin would accept Ukraine joining _the EU,_ if Ukraine is not part of NATO.

[@mahae_16]

Yanis Varoufakis is not an expert in anything. A humiliated Russia? Do you know what Russia's problem is? That it was never humiliated. They always had their cake and eat it. That made their chauvinism grow so much. Who is next, an expert in chauvinism? maybe Orban?

[@SuperDflower]

So 20 million people dead after the second world war doesn’t count as humiliation?

[@mahae_16]

@@SuperDflowerNO, it counts like payment for their greed

[@pekkanumminen81]

Putin/Russia cant be thrusted, so any agreemet with them is as valuable as the paper it is written.

[@robturvey9156]

How about letting a sovereign nation make its own decisions ?

[@GQ2593]

This argument goes both ways unfortunately.

[@robturvey9156]

@@GQ2593 Of course. Do you think that I am unaware of that ?

[@lolcat5303]

Sure, how about Donbas be afforded that luxury? And Ukraine spared the likes of Victoria Nuland?

[@harryflashman4542]

then they can defend their decisions without dragging the world into chaos.

[@Mr_Fu_Manchu]

Really? Who would have believed that Vietnam can win against US? Or Afghan guerilla against Soviet Union? If they play their cards right, yes they will.

[@MrJoebrooklyn1969]

Vietnam did not win.

[@TheEVEInspiration]

Militarily, N-Vietnam did not win, nor the Afghans, the USA just left...they could have persisted and would have won, but the political will was lacking and it was costly.

[@thetimebinder]

@@TheEVEInspiration Ukraine doesn't need to win militarily either. This isn't a sport to see who's military is the strongest. It's survival.

[@MrJoebrooklyn1969]

@@TheEVEInspiration amen.

[@lthoang101]

@@TheEVEInspiration Ukraine is needs Russia to leave. Now Russia has alread left the Kiev region.

[@Lizardo451]

This didn't age well.

[@kanatmergenbayev2731]

It's mad to think Ukraine can not win. 😆

[@jacekkalinowski694]

It is really a good thing, this guy left politics, god forbid this kind of leader. Putin will withdraw his troops just like that? For the promise? What is it ? A parody of politics?

[@JaniAllanSA]

What? Zelensky immediately shuts down all opposition voices and you praise him? Off I go.

[@msbramble176]

I agree with you but I don't see how turning off when you hear something you don't like helps the conversation.

[@dlmsarge8329]

Goodness! Just how many ways and about how many things can he be wrong!?!? Is he trolling us?

[@ElliotKM23]

OCT 2022, look how that turned out...

[@davidjacobson9907]

Looks like you were wrong. He is an economist. He is out of his depth in this conversation.

[@tonyborg4510]

The ukrainian seeing bruttality will fight harder and not surrender.

[@joannachodyka2169]

The problem is that peace deal means different things for the West and for Putin. Russia's demand that Ukraine will never join Nato is just the beginning. They want eastern part of the country, removing weapons (demilitarization); stopping any form of military cooperation with the West including training and such. They will probably will not allow for Ukraine to be part of EU. There is also an interesting point of war reparations which Russia has no intention of paying and will want Ukraine to waive any claims in the hypothetical peace agreement. Yanis talks about the peace as though the only thing Russia wants is the neutrality of the Finnish kind. Putin wants Ukraine on its knees.

[@WilkinsMichael]

Yes, he is being extremely naive to the point of idiocy. The Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans know what Putin and Russia are and are acting appropriately. Appeasement will not work here.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

1:00 The incident mentioned at the start, is highly fishy. Timeline looks dodgy. Censorship on this issue particularly on KZbin makes this look even more suspicious. We have fallen so many times for war propaganda, particularly Iraq WMD we need to be careful. The KZbin channel The Duran set out Russia didn't want to take the capital. They didn't even try. Look at the numbers of troops they used. They had enough troops to pin down the Ukrainian army in the capital so it couldn't reinforce the East where the Ukrainian army are getting surrounded.

[@egertonmark]

The Doran is a channel run by right wing nutters.

[@altaimountain]

they could try a bluff attack to see if Kiev cracks. sort of recon by fire. they took damage for sure. but overall, I believe, it doesn't matter. its bad PR but militarily makes total sense. Russia is gonna beat ukrainian army, there's little doubt. the plan was always to bleed Russia in the endless guerilla warfare vs hostile population at its borders. this is very dangerous for Russia.

[@michaelevans4110]

Exactly. Too many people rely on main stream media news.

[@RedXlV]

Who cares what The Duran claims? Russia wanted to make a quick strike on Kyiv to topple the Ukrainian government and install Viktor Medvedchuk as a puppet president who would surrender the country to Russia.

[@michaelevans4110]

@@RedXlV Yeah, and 3.5 million drones in Kyiv would have bowed to that without a fight? The Azov/Ukr marines/nation guard would kneel and pick flowers? You're delusional, red.

[@ChicagoDB]

Yanis is going to be very surprised when the Russian military and Putin are going to be forced to call it quits…I’ll happily wager $100 on it

[@Bike_Lion]

More than a thousand Ukrainian marines just surrendered in Mariupol. Russia's getting ready to launch a big offensive to encircle some 60K Ukrainian troops on the front lines in the Donbass. I'm sorry, but you're simply out of touch with the military reality on the ground.

[@milipac]

you've got to be joking

[@earlgrey9329]

You MUST be an american , to talk that way ! No contact with reality ! But I'll take your bet and raise it ! How much can you afford to loose ??? 🤑

[@sarojrajsatyal3736]

Ukro nazi n evil nest of the west may destroy soon.....

[@matteo-cu8uv]

So because the Russian army is bigger and more powerful they will necessarily win? If thats the case then the US would have easily won Afghanistan, Vietnam and many more...

[@nikouai]

If Ukraine cannot win, why do you think that automatically means Russia has to win it? To me, everyone is a loser anyway...

[@psychologianiestacjonarna6558]

I think, Mr Varoufakis, that Greece should give up Thessaloniki to Turkey, a home city of Ataturk after all, and that would resolve any animosities between Greece and Turkey 😁 (this example is just a joke cause Turkey isn't even making its politics on constant territorial expansion)... Varoufakis has proved, in a very eloquent way, he is, after all, just an useful idiot. He understands his own perspective, but he doesn't understand Russia. Btw telling the Chechnya story at the beginning of an interview was a perfect example of him performing mansplaining

[@ebflegg]

Ukraine would not be in this position now had not the nationalists and their fascist friends overthrown the government with US support in 2014, and started marginalising Russian speakers and pounding the Donbass. There have been eight years of that in which the country was warned of the likely consequences

[@psychologianiestacjonarna6558]

@@ebflegg I hope you are sitting in a Russian troll factory and working for rubles, cause otherwise you're a brainwashed pathetic idiot 😄 btw it's obvious that you fully support killing children and civilians in Bucha, Ukraine, seeing what you've just written in your comment

[@martinbartosik2440]

Yanis is not useful idiot, he is out of time. I suggest him to himself into shoes of president of Russia.

[@martinbartosik2440]

Sorry foregot the verb " put"

[@palimpalim5291]

"cause Turkey isn't even making its politics on constant territorial expansion" You have no idea what is going on in the Eastern Mediterranean.

[@zandvoort8616]

At last! A journalist who is speaking common sense and looking at this conflict in its historical setting! Instead of the war mongering west!

[@MrShadownoise]

I think you meant to type 'war mongering Putin', on this occasion.

[@zandvoort8616]

@@MrShadownoise and so what did the US do when Cuba, a sovereign state, invite Russia to locate nuclear missiles on their territory?

[@MrShadownoise]

@@zandvoort8616 It was a very worrying period, but resolved by Kennedy and Kruschev talking and agreeing removal of missiles from Cuba and Turkey. To the enormous credit of both leaders, and relief of millions. What is your point?

[@tjamaima6104]

All I can say, with all respect, the guest is not really aware of the long history between two countries…

[@V14-h3y]

You'd be surprised by what our real history's all about Think "good vs evil", God vs Lucifer and the rest of the story will fall into place

[@Rasmajnoon]

Welcome to the beginning of the first attack on dollar hegemony

[@markpengell23]

The amount of military personnel Russia would have available if they did conquer Ukraine, even with Belarusian assistance makes it unviable. Apart from the Ukrainian people suffering and Russian troops dying faster there is no end game for putin on this. Not one that’s been though out. You can’t garrison a country with around 15 troops to every 1000 civilians. The population of Ukraine is seething and would swamp the Russian military or any puppet government involved.

[@davidchung1697]

Not only that, but one also has to take into consideration the actual combat power (estimated based on battlefield performance). Russian military sucks in this department. Also, they are running out of bodies - 90K demoralized incompetent troop is all they are capable of amassing. And the world history is full of accounts of battles in which larger army was obliterated by the smaller force, given the right circumstances.

[@markpengell23]

@@davidchung1697 absolutely. Judging by they’re performance so far who knows what they will have left to do the job with.

[@ged999]

Some say, the US do not want this sort of peace arrangement, they wish Russia to be severely economically and militarily weakened as was the SU after Afghanistan...(in this scenario we'll probably still be here this time next year talking through these issues)

[@21stcenturyoptimist]

I agree with this, but i also think that if russia smelled weakness they would capitalize on it..

[@grannyannie2948]

It will last for as long as western leaders need it to distract the people.

[@grannyannie2948]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards I grew up in the cold war. In Australia in primary school we figured out how to survive a nuclear winter. Watching the complete totalitarian takeover of my own government over covid, is much more terrifying than nuclear war.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards Globalisation has destroyed the nation state democracy. We are ruled in the interests of international finance. We are post capitalism post democracy. Moving to oligarchy.

[@grannyannie2948]

@Martin Baldwin-Edwards Yes, we have lost bodily autonomy, and peaceful protests are met with violence and ignored by politicians. In some parts of the country people can be forcibly vaccinated and or removed from their homes and placed in purpose built concentration camps. In a pandemic, instead of building hospitals our government built concentration camps. Our Prime Minister's smug, beaming face as Schwab praised him for using covid to introduce digital identities, told 1000 words about what was going on. In what we are told is a democracy, the major parties always control the country, they ignore election promises, and follow the globalists directives. At the end of the day it doesn't matter which party is in power, the policies don't change, only the rhetoric. Our Labor party does represent the trade unions. But the trade unions supported their members being mandated to take the vaccine if they wanted to continue to work. Like the government trade unions have represented global concerns over their members concerns for decades. Everyday we move closer to the stated objective, We will own nothing.