Yascha Mounk: Israel to America - escaping the identity trap

[@aristocraticrebel]

Identity for me but not for thee.

[@Sinekyre14]

Exactly. They fight against our national identities and right to defend ourselves in Europe, while at the same time demanding that we support their genocide of Palestinian prisoners in their apartheid state. After what I've seen in the past few days, and the destruction of our nations through immigration which they fascilitated, I will no longer listen to them except if they are begging for forgiveness for what Israel and their movements have done.

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

Indeed. Quite pathetic

[@arikkatzenberg4498]

The incel faction has spoken.

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

@@arikkatzenberg4498 no angel just obvious analysis. I wish it was different . I wish he had been balanced . The middle path is desperately needed 🙏🏽

[@andres_campos]

WARNING: Mounk works for The Atlantic

[@aristocraticrebel]

WARNING: Mounk wants diversity for white countries but blood and soil nationalism for Israel.

[@maxxim2934]

Very hard to listen to this guy, ummm hmm after every other word. Does he even has thought about his ideas, tried to express them before? Feels like not.

[@AfroRU6246]

Lol

[@keithhunt5328]

He's thinking on the spot clearly

[@jayjaydubful]

I'm beginning to watch this with skepticism as I saw Moncks's dishonest & duplicitous takedown of Bret Weinstein. But am going to give this a try

[@tatjanajak]

Where can I see this takedown?

[@jayjaydubful]

@@tatjanajak Columnists    How to Argue Against Identity Politics Without search for his name and Turning Into a Reactionary

[@georgegrader9038]

Link

[@nunyabidness3075]

Hasn’t the experience in the US been that government assistance has had the opposite result on minorities? Isn’t this why so many progressive statisticians avoid showing pre great society stats on minority families?

[@GlynDwr-d4h]

Yeah but why? Explain the cause and effect. There are at least two possibilities as to why a welfare state would lead to the decline of the family, and depending on which one you go with, you're going to want radically different policy solutions. If you think this is because welfare means people lose the incentive to work, you're going to do away with the welfare state while fully expecting the institution the family to re-emerge, yeah? Does that sound plausible to you? If you just terrorize people with the possibility of poverty, they'll become personally responsible net contributing members of society and bootstrap their way into the middle class? Is that really how this works? And what predated the Great Society was the New Deal. What do statisticians tell us about the pre New Deal outcomes? If, on the other hand, you realize that the reason welfare impacted the family structure is because it provided women specifically with the incentive to divorce or avoid marriage entirely because they could replace fathers with the state, then you arrive at a very different conclusion policy wise. In that case, what is in order is a welfare state that incentivizes socially beneficial behavior which undergirds the family structure. There is no reason to think that making it more difficult, costly, risky, and expensive to start families is going to lead to the rehabilitation of the family structure, but that's just what the small government libertarian and Reagan era Archie Bunker personal responsibility brigade is suggesting. If they are wrong, then the only people who will be having families are the irresponsible, since they'll have children regardless of economic conditions, while responsible people simply don't start families at all. It's an open question as to if civil society and functional institutions of any kind are possible in the long run if most people who want families can't start them, so you really don't have the option of getting this wrong. You're betting the farm on it.

[@nunyabidness3075]

@@GlynDwr-d4h I’m more interested in reality than political games. Recently a very sensible change in hearing aid policy was made by the Biden administration. It rolled back regulation and threw a lot of the solution back to the market to provide. The instigators of this were Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. If those two could abandon their schtick to choose an obviously smart solution that seemingly contradicted their positions, so can anyone. Being a small government, center right person, I assure you, if you have a NEW solution based on results, I’ll support it. Now, I was too young to know exactly what happened in the sixties, but I am partial to claims that by favoring unwed mothers there was an effect of breaking up families. Unintended Consequences is a small government camp theme song, so no surprise there. If that’s cause and effect (at least marginal cause anyways), we now agree on that bias should not have existed. So why does eliminating that incentive have to be radical? There’s a libertarian argument that government should only recognize parenthood, not marriage. Sounds radical, but in practice I cannot see why it would necessarily be radical. The tax code goes part way there already. If we provide one rate of welfare for each adult, and an additional amount to the care giver for the child, then doesn’t the perverse incentive disappear? Then you are left with the stories of poor young women having children to get checks and become independent before graduating high school. Was that a myth created by Reaganites?

[@knowledgeispower6726]

As a so-called advocate against identity politics why would Mounk have an issue with a headline saying 'both sides reeling'?

[@michelleboggs4672]

Not a compelling guest~ having trouble giving this one my time.

[@rosemaroon6407]

Ugh. Contemplating whether to unsubscribe

[@AfroRU6246]

Same hear... I see lips moving no substance...

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

I’m taking it that the unheard silence on the Gaza atrocities is a circumspect response that takes into account the sentiments of doners and possibly board of trusties or such like…… and though I respect that one must be mindful when one has a platform , I’m also saddened and sort of bored that when push comes to shove , even a channel like unheard is fundamentally ideologically and probably financially constrained. Your aim to be deeply enquiring cannot survive and grow if one the biggest and most contentious and widely reported events for decades goes almost unaddressed. The American investment in Israel is not about Jewish identity, can we please talk openly about the way the Israeli state and its citizens are used to maintain old geopolitical narratives. Isn’t it time for new analysis and policy ? Divide and rule is so fucking tedious and old hat. It’s negative ramifications so ongoing and yet it’s still constantly sold across the world as America and the west fighting for democracy….. the question is do we behave as a democracy ourselves.

[@johnnyboyvan]

Lol what a joke! Good luck 👍

[@petneb]

If you think you should fight like gentlemen then both gentleman should have the same weapons.

[@edwinjoy3932]

It will be great if you can invite Prof. John Mearsheimer again to UnHerd to discuss the current events of West-Asia.

[@mbrochh82]

Here's a ChatGPT summary: - Yasha Monk is one of the last remaining liberals in the US - He criticizes progressive overreach on the left but refuses to become a reactionary or right-winger - He believes that the Israel-Palestine conflict highlights the achievements and challenges of liberal societies - He criticizes the media for not adequately addressing the moral implications of the conflict - He argues that the rise of identity politics is a rejection of universalism and liberal values - He believes that the decline of trust in institutions is a major problem - He advocates for speaking up and arguing back against illiberal ideas - He acknowledges the challenges of managing immigration and addressing historical injustices - He suggests that pro-family policies and universal welfare policies can help address societal issues.

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

Let’s not forget that Hamas was funded by Israel far right groups who do not want to deal with a secular legitimate representation that PLO tried to give its people. I remember when the PLO were called terrorists and then they mellowed and tried diplomacy and guess what…. Israel preferred a more extreme oponentes that would justify violence and the continuation of accusation. And many outisde israel also preferred hamas as they would justify militarisation . And to think the west aren’t invested in their only really ally in the Middle East is naive and foolish. Ps I’m Jewish (and African ) I’ve lived in Israel and I have asheknasi family there right now. They do NOT support Netanyahu, the Gaza occupation or any of the other crazy excuses for the genocide that far right forces across the globe profit from and promote. And I dearly hope you jin terview somebody who questions the Israeli state more deeply. And though he talks about identity being unhelpful he seems sorely wedded to Israel and it’s identity. Otherwise he would be ok to hear an oppressed people in an occupied land called militants and not terrorist. Guerilla warfare has been forced on 95% of all colonised peoples. None of whom wanted to have to loose their lives or others people for the simple right of self governance.

[@Toughdan999]

"Let’s not forget that Hamas was funded by Israel far right groups who do not want to deal with a secular legitimate representation that PLO tried to give its people." This is simply not true. "Otherwise he would be ok to hear an oppressed people in an occupied land called militants and not terrorist. " Israel withdrew from Gaza almost 20 years ago. They promptly elected a terror group, who have turned it into a terror state that threatens both its neighbours (Egypt and Israel) who therefore enacted a blockade - clearly that blockade was not nearly strict enough.

[@Wandering_Owl]

It's actually true

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

@@Toughdan999 you need to read more

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

@@Toughdan999 and just Google or search elsewhere more free and you’ll find footage of Netanyahu discussing funding hamas as just the tip of the Im meshed iceberg of geopolitical shenanigans

[@parlaksari]

👏👏👏thanks for your honesty and clear & powerful voice.

[@jasminealixandranorth]

"The Strange Death of Europe" by Douglas Murray

[@grannyannie2948]

Yes Europe has to die because Murray was too polite to offer an alternative.

[@m3gAnac0nda]

Ok Nazi

[@aristocraticrebel]

Controlled opposition. Read "The Passing of the Great Race" by Madison Grant.

[@aristocraticrebel]

OK commie.@@m3gAnac0nda

[@gatpiozo]

Yeah, the second-rate Mein Kampf…he's the type that is going to cause the death of Europe.

[@AfroRU6246]

I feel sorry for the students he teaches...no wonder they come out of college clueless about everything

[@winterrising8738]

To find out who controls you ...

[@aristocraticrebel]

Oy vey!

[@Sinekyre14]

I can't even mention the group that owns most of the media and financial institutions that push immigration into Europe, but it's a small religious group.

[@jamie_gray]

Why should the people of a country not set the values, rules etc. I am just reading "Freedom" by Michael Collins, which laments the systematic crushing of Irish culture and how the culture, economic system etc. from England brings out the worst in the Irish. This has been critics of universalism correct criticism, when something is imposed from outside the culture they bring out the worst in people as they are not adapted vs when systems evolve from within a culture they account for the specific needs of a culture, it's history, its location etc. There are certainly basic human needs, and things the enhance human flourishing, but how these are applied is not universal.

[@johnweir1217]

You have lost the plot Freddy. What a shame.

[@WillFinch-k4j]

Just tortured myself thinking if I listened long enough he would tie it together and it would have enlightened me. No not happening then my earbuds went dead thank god.

[@timkbirchico8542]

For fks sake get a Palestinian on your show.

[@Marty72]

What has happened to Unherd, it used to be a place where you could come to hear new and interesting topics, instead of old stale culture war issues.

[@turbolevo8703]

You think the deracination of western culture by Neo Marxists is a stale issue do you? I pity you.

[@Marty72]

@@turbolevo8703 It does seem like that are treading over the same ground, rather then moving the conversation forward. Plus Yascha has been doing lot’s of interviews, and he tends to repeat himself, so the conversation does seem stale.

[@vanessali1365]

I kind of thinking along such line here. Should we keep feeding the neo Marxist? Of course, I'm dead against cancel culture but am definitely getting bored about it.

[@Sinekyre14]

Israel and jews push immigration and oppose nationalist movements in Europe, while at the same time promoting an apartheid state for themselves. They are NOT allies of Europeans.

[@miketomlin6040]

Centre ground in the USA is Bernie Sanders and co, Social Democrats. Place is dominated by the Centre Right Democrats and Far Right Republicans. I spent 7 years in the USA met about 8 people Left of Centre.

[@athenadiana5295]

I am wondering: why where Us is always 'present' there is always a war, a conflict, etc....but of course not in US itself and they still are the angels! ahahah

[@jaccrystal6993]

Can anyone self identify as Jewish? If not then then an individual should not be promoted so as to to subvert the identities of groups or communities.

[@stud6414]

Yascha is the problem!

[@snowbirdsurfer2474]

How do nation states fare when they share neither language, religion, creed, worldview, tradition, history? Universalism was and remains bunk. In-group moral psychology >>> unassimilated, salad bowl societies. Why not take a few hours to read Durant’s The Lessons of History for a primer on human nature?

[@ubermensch1979]

He is dim, banal & unserious. How did this person trick people into publishing dealings, public lectures & media appearances?

[@Carroty_Peg]

ask leather a pron cl ub

[@keithhunt5328]

Because he doesn't agree with you?

[@jamalnasir3099]

When will the ongoing military occupation of Palastine end?

[@DylanYoung]

I wonder where you got that hot take from... 🙄

[@johnl5316]

lol.......when the Arabs there move to Jordan, a part of historic Palestina

[@grannyannie2948]

When they convert to Christianity?

[@turbolevo8703]

The Islamists must be removed from Western Europe. They don’t belong here and are not welcome.

[@aristocraticrebel]

When will the Great Replacement end?

[@bookinsights1092]

Diversity is a weakness.

[@presterjohn1697]

Exclusivity is strength. Make settler states great again.

[@Ivan.Wright]

Sorry you aren't a single celled organism

[@m3gAnac0nda]

Ok incel

[@aristocraticrebel]

Every bugman who accuses others of being incels is an incel himself.@@m3gAnac0nda

[@presterjohn1697]

I bet your playlist is quite diverse.

[@BirthingBetterSkills]

The Great Truths have always and will always exist. When will we start to live by them? 1. We are ALL one humanity. We all blink, cough, and can tighten our muscles. Any woman can get pregnant by any man. Any child can be brought up in any culture, religion, language, part of the world. We use Distorted Mind Beliefs to deny and suppress this Truth and see ‘Us’ and ‘Other’. 2. We are ALL born naked. Every Woman knows this. We are made to feel shame or unsafe due to Distorted Mind Beliefs and denied the Truth 3. We are ALL born equal because the sun shines on each of us. Distorted Mind Beliefs deny and suppress this Truth. 4. We ALL live on one planet shared with the Commons (Waters, Airs, Soils), All Species and Each Others. We use Distorted Mind Beliefs as a reason to kill one another, The Commons and Species. 5. Women carry and birth the Future Generation of Women and Men 6. Women are the First Teachers to the Future Generation of Women and Men 7. When Women do NOT teach the Great Truths, then Women teach Distorted Mind Beliefs.

[@GlynDwr-d4h]

Let's say there was a hypothetical famine and you had the world's last ham sandwich, are you going to feed your kid or your neighbor's kid?

[@keithhunt5328]

​@@GlynDwr-d4hhahahaha.... he didn't reply. Humans will always remain tribal.

[@01hash]

Oh dear unherd/Freddie, your Paul Marshall funded libertarian platform has become bankrupt and irrelevant. You have no idea

[@nicksibly526]

Freddie certainly practices what he preaches

[@hotdiggityd]

For having a speaker on whom you disagree with? Ever wondered if you're part of the problem?

[@blobbins17]

Rid the hearts of spiritual ills, especially hate

[@christinarichie6171]

None of us are free...you have to pay to live. All wage slaves to money God.

[@Bluepillphil-d1w]

Yes but work for money or kill and grow your own food. Life is never easy either way.

[@DylanYoung]

That's not what freedom means, unless you're a psychopathic technocrat. Humans will always be slaves to nature. If they ever aren't, then they're no longer human.

[@speggeri90]

You’re not really clear headed are you?

[@nunyabidness3075]

@@speggeri90independent thinking isn’t exactly pushed in education.

[@aristocraticrebel]

Slavery is good. Every great civilization in history had slaves.

[@Alomst242424]

Yascha is very smart

[@albertdittel8898]

Yascha Mounk not only explains what douchebags people can be when they follow tribalist instead of universal principles, but also displays it in real live when he misrepresents the current conflict with identity-driven gaslighting.

[@johanngizurarson7235]

I have been a social democrats (more though centrist rather than centre-left) most of my life. I’m still with the Eduard Bernstein and other “founders” that equality of oppurtunity is for ALL, privilegded and non-priviledged. What is happening in some US school were they are focusing on their race for me is deeply disgusting and very regressive. Please dont give these people the honor of calling them progressive! Woke is not left btw. Left - universalism. Woke - identity/intersectionaly Left -free speech. Woke - free speech for some identities. Left - freedom from corporate power by the means of competition laws and robust anti-trust. Woke - joining in with the corparate power to spread their illiberal agenda Left - social justice by the means of wealth redistributiom and economical mobility independent of who you are. Woke - social justice only through the lens of race, gender, and “marginality”. Left - color blindness. Woke - fixation on the hue of skin color e.g. not black enough agenda. Etc.

[@sarasamson5922]

So...the Herd needs to make itself...heard. But it seems to me that this doesn't seem to get the attention of the elite until there's an extreme reaction - whether it be Trump, Brexit, alternate media outlets, conspiracy engagement, or just checking out. People may be heard but that doesn't mean they're listened to or respected. - Politically Homeless in the US.

[@nickguitarsweden3215]

He sounds like SBCohens Bruno character 😂

[@JosephStealin]

Civilisation is incommunicable

[@mariyadas727]

Yascha you did what you can, it's up to others how they see. You're familiar now in the sense you're winning but not lost, keep moving forward.

[@JosephStealin]

12:37 based 1960s Americans

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

The problem with asking any of us whether we would prefer to live in a liberal democracy or the alternative is that overreach of western democracy has meant that no other forms of democracy have truly been given the opportunity to emerge without our meddling. Kwame Nkrumah used to talk about AFRICAN SOCIALISM. When dissected it had no antipathy with capitalism and it suited the cukture that he himself was working to lead and uplift. The west was so terrified of socialism within Africa making Africa a Russian and Chinese partner missed the vital and useful differences of identity. Africa could have been a bridge between economic and ideological ideas and methodologies …. Instead it was cobbled . Leaders and thinker assassinate from the pathetic and narcissistic fear of western culture . Anyway…please address Gaza

[@jorgeclaverie6752]

On the use of the term "America" I can only say that it is NOT the name of one single country but that of a huge continent. Maybe once U.S.A. finally collapses and ceases to be the world´s imperialist superpower, people might go back to using the word "America" in its original and true meaning. Christopher Columbus came to America for the first time in 1492 and he sailed back over here on three more occasions. On NONE of those FOUR trips did Columbus ever set foot on what is now US territory. Let me reiterate this: Columbus discovered America, came back to America three more times, and on none, not even one, of those four trips did he ever set one single foot on what is now USA. Then, people back in Europe gave this new CONTINENT that he had discovered a name: " let us call it America", they said. Now..., what does this tell you about the real meaning of the name "America"? Did Columbus "discover America" without ever setting foot in America or is America the name of huge and diverse continent, in which U.S.A. is only ONE of its many countries?

[@MikeSmith-go8wk]

Lame comment bro

[@michaelr1225]

i too am passionate about giving continent names the PROPER respect they deserve

[@DylanYoung]

That's a really long comment for a semantic argument. Is there any substance the your argument or is it just that you like the word "America"?

[@johnl5316]

oh Javier.

[@grannyannie2948]

I'm Australian (Australia is also a continent) and I knew everything that you said. Nor is America a continent. It is two continents, South America and North America. Certainly in a formal essay I would be specific about which continent or country I was referring to. However in common speech America ussually suffices when describing the US. If we mean Canada or Brazil then we specify.

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

And when he talks about tell both historical stories then surely that should be demonstrated in the way we look at and talk about geopolitical situations of oppression liberation war and sovereignty . It can no longer be viewed in any wise and informed age from one side only .

[@reneeshort2049]

Right on! Great points.

[@-wordsmithourselves2wellne232]

And western overreach and divide and rule really must be healed under scrutiny if you truly want to minimise immigration. It’s such a basic place to start and yet so fundamental and also so liberally ignored and left truly un-investigated

[@accountemail4344]

Universal principles? Agreed. Don't bomb innocent children for vengeance, regardless of what label or rationalisation you attach to it. This guy's a joke.

[@StevieAF]

A civnat.

[@ThePtoleme]

It all depends on the country.