Yes, you can skip Muv-Luv Extra & Unlimited

[@rererererr5464]

imagine getting filtered so hard you make a whole video about it...

[@necrophagism]

Good god you won’t even understand the emotional meaning behind “bye bye” and “see you later” if you follow this. It’s like skipping the first half of steins gates and read from the middle where someone start dying.

[@baka-raptor]

That sounds pretty fun actually. Maybe I'll do that video next.

[@necrophagism]

You do what you want to do. I can only hope that will not be as half-assed as this one. If you really claim you are a “trusted critic”, at least put some effort into your content to convince people to think so.

[@flutteryaythetree]

I don't tend to comment with negative comments but... Your point is wrong, plain and simple, you can't have the full Muv-Luv experince without reading Extra and Unlimited, honestly this just feels like a clickbait video just to gather views, you have to have a pretty diluted mind to believe in your point. imagine starting Umineko/Higurashi on the answer arc, or starting Fate on the Heavens Feel route, that would just break the pace and build up of the games. Sorry man, this was a poor choice for a video.

[@baka-raptor]

You're right, you can't have the full Muv-Luv experience without reading Extra and Unlimited. That's good, because I don't recommend the full Muv-Luv experience. Too much of it's boring. Starting Umineko or Higurashi on an answer arc would be terrible. Starting Fate on Heaven's Feel certainly isn't recommended, but it's doable. Everything is nuanced and case-by-case. Figuring out which is which is the call that trusted critics such as myself step up to answer.

[@BradleytheDavis]

@@baka-raptor you can't call yourself a trusted critic if you encourage people to skip parts of an experience just cuz you personally don't like it. People should draw their own conclusions. honestly actually trusted critics wouldn't refer to themselves as such. check your ego, Mr. 206 Subscribers.

[@phantombroker6856]

@@baka-raptor I’m not even a big mla fan. This suggestion is utterly batshit.

[@subnet001]

If your point is that Extra and Unlimited are skippable because they are boring then we might as well skip Alternative as well, summing the game up in a sentence or two should provide an equally satisfying experience, right? Art is more than just a tl;dr. Extra serves to solidify our emotional connection to the characters, especially to Sumika, whom we will dearly miss in Unlimited. I would understand who Sumika was from a description but that wouldn't make me care about her or anyone, rather it is the hours of engagement and bonding you get dragging yourself through the story with her. By skipping that, Alternative becomes a story you don't have a stake in, about character you don't care for. That is what i sense you don't understand in your review/critique: you seem to see it from a viewpoint of pure rationality rather than emotion.

[@baka-raptor]

The key difference is that Muv-Luv Alternative is actually good. A few sentences would be much less satisfying than Alternative but much more satisfying than Extra and Unlimited, which are mediocre and bad, respectively. Do you get character development out of them that makes Alternative more emotionally impactful? Sure. Is it worth 50 hours? No. Anyone can understand the emotional impact of someone they know suddenly disappearing. We don't need 25 hours of harem hijinks and 25 more hours of Fainty McFaintington being lonely to get it.

[@subnet001]

@@baka-raptor You say that anyone can understand the emotional impact of someone disappearing and i fundamentally disagree with that in two ways, and i believe that this is the exact disagreement that highlights or fundamental disconnect. Firstly, i don't believe anyone would understand unless they actually lost someone, that would jus be extrapolation. Secondly, and this is my more important point, it is not just about understanding. It is about the connection and that is absolutely why we need those 50 hours. I will use an example, Everywhere at the End of Time: a six hour long musical composition that describes the progression of Alzheimers disease on a person, from first symptoms to death. Despite knowing what the course and inevitable outcome of the condition was beforehand, it made a huge impact on me, exactly because i had taken the time to go through the suffering that was that whole album; it made the suffering of the disease my own by subjecting me to it. The same is the case with Muv-Luv, i know what a person should feel about suffering and loss, but it is not until i actually feel it my self that it is able to truly make an impact. I also disagree that Extra and Unlimited aren't good. Extra was fun (except for Lacrosse), nice slice of life with great characters. Unlimited was a huge mystery, trying to figure out how it related to Extra was a great experience for me.

[@BradleytheDavis]

Why would you make a video like this. All you're doing is encouraging people to skip a genuinely great Visual Novel that is LITERALLY the first half of the story. Muv-Luv Alt is not standalone at all and it goes much much deeper than just knowing the broad, basic plot points. it's about developing an emotional connection to the characters, the world, and Takeru. doing so is necessary beyond just knowing the plot not to mention that there's tons of details, foreshadowing that would be missed. and how the themes of the story will not be understood without Extra and Unlimited to establish it. you can't just skip fuckin HALF of the story. if you skip Muv-Luv Extra and Unlimited, not only are you setting yourself up to enjoy Alternative less and get much less out of it, but everything about the impact of the story will be lessened. but what really frustrates me about this is the culture of "skipping parts, to get to the 'good stuff'". i see it with so many shows and franchises, etc. with Jojo, with Monogatari, and with many others. there is nothing more insulting to the story and the people who created it to just simply disregard parts of the story that aren't universally beloved by the consensus simply because you HEARD that tehy're not as good. you're literally spoiling people and that's it. when it comes to people who're interested in MLA, every single one of them should read Muv-Luv Extra and Unlimited for themselves. whether they're "interested" in that part or not is irrelevant. it doesnt change that fact that it's necessary imagine skipping Chaos;Head to read Chaos;Child. imagine skipping Baldr Sky Dive 1 just to read Dive 2 cuz you "heard it was better". imagine skipping Fate route in FSN cuz you "heard it wasn't as good as UBW and HF" even though Fate route is literally the narrative foundation of everything that comes after it. i absolutely hate the culture of "skipping parts". it's all bullshit and laziness and it needs to stop being spread around by videos like this.

[@baka-raptor]

According to vndb, Muv-Luv has an average rating of 6.99, while Muv-Luv Alternative has an average rating of 9.10. That's why I made this video. I have no problem with your considering Muv-Luv a "genuinely great" VN, but most people (including myself) disagree, and we don't have 50 hours to waste on mediocrity. Skipping can be a problem. So can stubborn completionism. It's up to trusted critics like myself to filter between the two. Skipping early parts that are weak is every bit as valid as dropping later parts that go downhill. I don't care if it's an insult to story and the people who created it. I'm in the business of insulting them directly by criticizing their work. If they don't want to get insulted, they should write better stories.

[@BradleytheDavis]

@@baka-raptor I disagree that skipping parts of a story you HEARD isn't as good as other parts is equally valid to dropping a story partway through. in the case of dropping a series, you at least have the context of the parts you HAVE seen to work off of when deciding to drop it. but in the case of soemthing you havent even started yet, you'd be a fool to trust the words of anyone that tells you to skip parts of a story that are not objectively filler. Muv-Luv Extra and Unlimited are not filler whatsoever and are necessary for understanding the rest of the story shown in Alternative. they are essential to the experience of Alternative's story in the same way 1st Season of Monogatari is essential to 2nd Season. the reason why Alt's so great is because of all the set-up Extra and Unlimited had done. Alternative wouldn't be nearly as engaging without the support structure those parts afford it. "I'm in the business of insulting them directly by criticizing their work. If they don't want to get insulted, they should write better stories." - this here is a very bad mindset for anyone who considers themselves a critic. firstly, there's a huge difference between criticism and insults. and secondly, you said you dont care that it's an insult to the story to disregard entire chunks of it just because they personally dont appeal to you, and the moment you do that, you've failed as a critic. this video didn't offer ANY actual criticism of Muv-Luv, all you did was state that first parts were lackluster, and then provided basic information about their story. your apathy for the story you're claiming to criticize is not a good look for a so-called "critic" if you want people to actually listen to what you have to say (not that you said anything in this video). - "we don't have 50 hours to waste on mediocrity." if that's true, then don't read Muv-Luv to begin with. if you're not going to actually do the basic courtesy of reading the full story, then all that does is show you don't really care about Muv-Luv. if you're not willing to read Extra and Unlimited before Alternative, then you shouldn't even bother reading Alternative either and just spend your time on something you'll actually care about. what kind of "critic" doesn't even put in the effort to read the full version of something?? what kind of "Critic" encourages others to do the same? - bringing up VNDB's bayesian ratings the rating for the original Muv-Luv is heavily warped by a narrative that has existed around it since its fan translation, as the person who translated it offered a TL that butchers the characterization and dialogue, a vital part of the reading experience for Unlimited and especially Extra. the reason that score is so low is because most of the people that scored it read a definitvely inferior release with an abysmal script. but that's all besides the point. really the point here is that ratings are a useless metric for determining if something is worth your time or not. i've experienced plenty of games, books, shows, etc with low scores that turned out super interesting and really well done. it's all subjective, and all the rating shows in this specific case is a poor reception of a bygone era in Muv-Luv's exposure to the west. the majority of people who read the official english release of Muv-Luv enjoy Extra and Unlimited just fine.

[@DougMaupin]

@@baka-raptor With 205 subs you arent a trusted critic you are just a clown. This video is garbage

[@baka-raptor]

@@DougMaupin Correction: 206

[@baka-raptor]

​@@BradleytheDavis If you're interested in my criticism of Muv-Luv Extra and Unlimited, I posted it on my written blog a few years ago before moving to KZbin, though I doubt you'll find any consolation... www.baka-raptor.com/2016/01/03/the-filler-before-the-storm/ www.baka-raptor.com/2017/01/03/the-filler-before-the-storm-ii/ Even the upcoming anime is skipping straight to Alternative. How could they commit such a sacrilege?!

[@MsUmbyy]

i disagree with the general premise of the video but if you really wanted to make your point you should have just said "read the wiki" instead of forcing me to listen to you poorly describe the plot and characters for 10 minutes

[@baka-raptor]

No, definitely do not read the wiki. It might make Muv-Luv Extra and Unlimited seem much more interesting than they actually are.

[@vlexonkol8466]

This aged horribly wrong like that meat i left in my lunchbox, especially when the anime came. MY GOD, its make me to fund Alternative V even faster

[@SwinkoKing]

imagine wanting to read muv luv alternative instead of a dating sim with cute girls lmao

[@baka-raptor]

Yes

[@sb17899]

yeah no. muv-luv is a slow burn, if you aren't willing to read all of it then you shouldn't read any of it.

[@baka-raptor]

Too much slow, not enough burn

[@christopherlowery3797]

The worst part about this video existing is the removal of the dislike count from KZbin uploads (as of November 2021). People might think this opinion has credence, but I hope the comment section tips them off quickly enough. Hell, I struggled through Extra & Unlimited, and even then, the parallels are too numerous to hand-wave like this. The way the anime has been handling it has viewers immensely confused; a video like this will be no better.

[@SpadeDraco]

Extra is objectively terrible. BUT. The way that it's referenced by Unlimited and Alternative later is absolutely genius. Takeru only thinks back on the more mundane parts. As the reader you look back to it during the darker parts of the series and it kinda emulates nostalgia. Like "wait did Meiya bring in 500 chefs that day or is it just my\Takeru's idealized fantasy of his old life?" I actually thought Unlimited was pretty good. No idea why people dislike it.

[@lemonov3031]

@@SpadeDraco >Extra is objectively terrible. Wrong.

[@Jdjdjdujakzgsha]

@@SpadeDraco that’s not what objectively means…here I’ll give you a true example Your opinion on EXTRA is objectively wrong.

[@LondonLock]

Literally one of the most tightly constructed trilogies out there that builds upon itself brilliantly. No you can't.

[@monkey_in_a_suit]

i bet you think the anime adaptation is a masterpiece 💀

[@Zakuzelo]

This is some quality bait right here.

[@baka-raptor]

Thank you

[@jettswole]

Hard disagree for a lot of reasons, a minor one being how Alternative is unofficially completely linear outside some inconsequential order of dialogue options. Not going any further on that, a lot to unpack, chucking the suitcase out the window to "see it later".

[@ZoloFren]

Extra and Unlimited are crucial to the story, delet this

[@baka-raptor]

Crucial? Yes. Boring? Yes. Skippable? Yes. Delet? No.

[@mkv3542]

Sorry i cant comprehend wrong language.

[@baka-raptor]

I accept your apology.

[@vladi3784]

LMFAOOOOOOO

[@baka-raptor]

I too am amused

[@renren3199]

Vlad my man

[@sayn2125]

This is wrong. Delete this. This is incorrect.

[@baka-raptor]

No, I will not delete your comment.

[@tenaciousrodent6251]

If you just do the Sumika route in Extra and the Meiya route in Unlimited you are already golden.These will give you everything you need. 100%-ing everything i would not recommend because in Unlimited it's almost the same every time but if there is a specific girl you have a click with you definitely should do her two routes too. Focussing on your best girl can amplify Alternative a lot. But skipping them? Are you out of your mind? Alternative is just another war movie without all that crucial setup.

[@Sentenal]

Nice like ratio

[@baka-raptor]

Amazingly, none of them have read Muv-Luv, and they all came here earnestly questioning whether they should.

[@christopherlowery3797]

Sure wish I could see it rn, damn KZbin for taking that legitimately valuable metric away.

[@SmokeyPSD]

This ain't it, just no lol just go straight to return of the king bro 🙃

[@baka-raptor]

If The Fellowship of the Ring were a dating sim and The Two Towers had literally no battles, then absolutely.

[@SmokeyPSD]

@@baka-raptor if you just want mech battles then go with something else, it's a trilogy for a reason. Alternative is so powerful because of Extra and Unlimited lol. I hear Gundam is cool and shallow, maybe that's more for you.

[@baka-raptor]

@@SmokeyPSD But Gundam's really long. I'd need to know which parts to skip.

[@AngeVNs]

While I don't fully agree with the video I DO agree Muv-LUv Extra+Unlimited should have been reduce to like... 5-10 hours COMBINED, this stupidly way the Vn is structured is why I can't agreed ML trilogy is a masterpiece, even if it as good points.

[@superfamilyallosauridae6505]

hrmm yes today i will look up if i can skip the first two visual novels "SO I VISITED SADOGASHIMA" my god, it's got people making *pilgrimages*

[@baka-raptor]

The Muv-Luv Alternative anime is going to be the greatest thing that ever happened to Sadogashima's economy, guaranteed.

[@dank_lord]

King of the clowns

[@baka-raptor]

It's good to be king.

[@ohmikey3839]

NO YOU CAN'T!!!

[@baka-raptor]

Too late, 1000+ people have now skipped it thanks to me!

[@Jdjdjdujakzgsha]

@@baka-raptorit’s not cool to brag about your war crimes.

[@RabbitWithAGun45]

Most based Muv Luv Alternative reader to ever exist.

[@sovl2178]

I followed this and I had a much better experience than when I had played the two optional games

[@Jdjdjdujakzgsha]

I name you a liar

[@DaBroSquad]

Nice bait

[@baka-raptor]

Thank you

[@Jdjdjdujakzgsha]

You accidentally wrote Typed the word yes in the video title instead of the word no….you also made 10 minute video of Wrongthink No I didn’t watch the video you think I’d waste my time on heretical nonsense?

[@whodidthissmh]

bro no you cannot skip muv luv extra

[@blankyd3360]

I agree with this to a certain extent, but I'd recommend at least read the Meiya/Sumika route from extra and unlimited. I don't agree that the characters are simply archetypal and actually have a lot of nuance to them. However, if you're just into the mechs and war stuff and not so the coming of age and romance bits, maybe you can go straight to alternative. Just don't expect that it'll be the same experience as the writer intended. However, I can still respect your opinion since it is long af afterall and not every bit can be worth your time.

[@LaCreaturaSplungus]

L i guess

[@potaxe]

☠️☠️☠️

[@kipni82]

Wish I'd seen this sooner and saved myself some time. I still don't seem to understand why people are so adamant on Extra's importance and how tf Alternative managed to crawl it's way up to the first place on vndb. Was it their first visual novel ever? People I know who are into anime and novels haven't even heard of it, and I only find it after I've already read 70 novels, I could imagine this being someone's first exposure to the medium. Maybe they're people which had zero knowledge about a common anime tropes, and Extra made a good of establishing them and Alternative deconstructing them after? It would have been the case if those people were from 2003, when Extra came out, but most fans came from it's Steam release back in 2016. The only plausible explanation I can come up with is that world has been subjected to the mass hysteria which makes them overzealous and wholeheartedly defend Extra, and I'm not aware of it.

[@lemonov3031]

"Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong"

[@kipni82]

@@lemonov3031 children part checks out

[@thebottleismyfriend500]

you should just skip muv-luv in general and read a good vn instead

[@sovl2178]

this

[@kloa4219]

Thank you, the VN was tough for me to read because of the character archetypes. I would have appreciated it if I didn't know about anime before.

[@copytuzi]

filtered cz ur a normie lols

[@zerhin.]

i like you and your opinion is valid :)

[@baka-raptor]

Thank you! Feel free to take my opinion into consideration when making the best decisions for yourself based on all the facts and opinions at your disposal.

[@matheusaguiardebrito9243]

i think you are correct .All the girls are archetypes anyway extra is just completely pointless.

[@baka-raptor]

Bingo

[@renren3199]

Based

[@baka-raptor]

That's how I roll

[@xxmeloxx2999]

Based king

[@baka-raptor]

This guy knows what's up

[@goldgunscantshoot973]

@@baka-raptor Don't like your own likes, that's autistic