Has iRacing Updated The Hybrid Model?

[@Smoked_Cheddar]

So my thought is, improper deployment aside. Someone pointed out the MGU-k already deploying below 190 kph. However my counter-argument is when the hybrid is deployed the torque is increased even without the RPMs. So one would think with the MGU-K properly deployed you would still go faster because the Torque is better than with just ICE alone. Regardless I think you're right, I bet if we tracked power it would go over the 500 kw (671 hp) limit. I think that is the biggest gripe really. I really enjoy the VRC 499p, its just too fast for the other cars.

[@Macoswag]

If no hybrid power is used, there is nowhere for the regenerative braking to put the energy recovered and thus if the battery is at 100% there will be no regenerative braking. So that's one thing they should fix. So in fact under braking if you have a full battery you should not hear any regenerative braking sound.

[@togwilson]

Even if the battery is full you would still hear the re-Gen under braking. It’s just not putting the power into the battery

[@EndureRacing]

to add to that, when at 100% you will more than likely lock up the rears because of it and spin out. I hope they fix the hybrid system because it's a huge element missing

[@Macoswag]

@@togwilson If the battery is full the regenerative braking is not active, that is the point. The car can not just transfer all that energy to ground , so if the regenerative braking was not disabled it would probably set something on fire as it has nowhere to go.

[@Macoswag]

@@EndureRacing That is something you can try for yourself in LMU haha, with 100%SOC you have to brake a lot earlier, otherwise you will not have a good time :D

[@togwilson]

@ no that’s not how it works

[@tommynott4310]

I hope they get this sorted, feels like an area iracing have purposely simplified for ease of use but it somewhat taints the immersion.. I have been using iracing since 2018 and don't remember the MP4-30 in release spec, but my understanding is the first release of that had a more complex hybrid system then they chose to make it more simple following feedback. (I might be wrong on this , just remembering what someone told me)

[@Yorkie065]

I'm pretty sure you're correct on this. The simplication came in the form of breaking the maps down into specific maps for certain situations, i.e. off, quali, attack and balanced, rather than maps 0, 1, 2, 3, etc, that have various rates. IRL, they likely adjust those rates on a per track basis for optimal performance but that isn't really feasible due to the large number of tracks and limited resources in dev time. So this would be a game design choice, making it simpler for players to understand and eliminating the need for map adjustment throughout the lap by making the system target certain percentages to maintain the system itself automatically. It is a shame that this model is still used, as it is incorrect. Not only that, it proves all the sounds of the hybrid system recharging and deploying is fake (i.e. not tied to physics).

[@danielebrambilla2290]

One thing you missed is the hybrid still deploys below 190kph, but on the rear axle. So it's an LMDh until 190 and then it becomes AWD.

[@Yorkie065]

That's actually incorrect. The Hypercars can only deploy hybrid to the front axle, no matter the speed. So they are purely ICE powered until their designated speed for the hybrid to engage, which then goes front wheels only. Only the LMDH/GTP cars have hybrid going to rear wheels, which deploys whenever they're on throttle no matter the speed, with no front axle deployment.

[@guilhermeluis8041]

@@Yorkie065 i think what he means is that the 499p in iracing is acting like a lmdh until 190, you can see in you lap the battery draining even when driving under 190km/h

[@danielebrambilla2290]

@@guilhermeluis8041 Exactly.

[@Yorkie065]

Oh wow, you are right! I did miss that. WOW! Then it's even more wrong than it should be.

[@241FROST]

@@Yorkie065 you have mail to write you?

[@thelizardfolk]

Fantastic video showing the issues of this. I'm sorely disappointed in iRacing, although I didn't expect iRacing to suddenly catch up to LMU in terms of how the hybrid works. I was hoping they'd atleast do the AMS2 route and have the hybrid function as a sort of ratio between electric and gas power so that fiddling with the hybrid doesn't give performance boost. Basically all the sounds of this car are canned and not tied to any mechanism or physics. That's pretty arcade.

[@lowproscrumbum]

AMS2 is a broken mess take the wins where you can get em. The good news is they will actually fix this and wont do it until it is right unlike AMS2 that has been broken since launch and will never be fixed. Good luck out there.

[@Yorkie065]

What is broken in AMS2? And just to note, iRacing isn't much better. It's been almost 2 years since the first LMDH/GTP car was released on the service and it's not improved or changed. The tyre model hasn't been great for (probably) longer and they've messed that up with this update. iRacing is pretty notorious for band aid fixes over the years. Obviously if they do bring a proper fix/implementation, I'll be happy and give them the credit where it is due, but for now I'm not going to be holding my breath.

[@rassiracing5104]

It’s AWD at all times, sending 50kw. Try slicks in the wet and watch the wheel spin. Real car is 200kw at 190 replacing ice power.

[@ilzee_vk]

It feels like it's done this way for gameplay reasons, to make the battery have more impact over a 45 minute race whuch is what vast majority play. The other reason could of course be saving dev cost, but somehow Im not so sure.

[@Yorkie065]

As I've just mentioned in another comment, it is basically what you're saying in both simplification for gameplay reasons and ease of player use, and also saving dev time. They hybrid model dates back to the old McLaren MP4-30 that was released quite a long time ago. Even for that, the hybrid model was simplified from maps 0,1,2,3, etc to being the no deploy, quali, attack and balanced that we see today. Allows players to understand from the name of the map, what it is designed to do as the hybrid system will manage itself and balance its deployment based off target %'s at the line for each lap. The problem is that this system is old, and incorrect for these cars. Sure they've saved themselves time dev wise, but now they're having to play catch up to fix this as other sims have got it right and players are noticing that it is incorrect in how it functions for these cars. I really hope they get it fixed some time soon.

[@lor7780]

@@Yorkie065 but how exactly is it simplifying gameplay? Isn't it making more complicated as the player has to micromanage the battery to avoid losing lap time?

[@smokeybandit9760]

That literally makes no sense when it's modeled correctly in other games like LMU and AMS2

[@Yorkie065]

It's simplifying gameplay because the deployment and regen maps are merged into one, rather than being two separate systems. Also the naming of the maps gives a bit of indication as to their intended use. It's very rare that I've seen people use a hybrid map other than balanced in iRacing. Only exception is qualifying. So it's not like people are micro-managing the system the whole time. Having the real system is more complicated as the deployment and regen should be separate, and their map numbers don't give any indication as to the amount of deployment or regen, other than that it is more or less than the next or previous map. It therefore forces players to test the system to learn it and figure out how much deployment and regen is going on, and then share the info with others if they desire. If this were the case, with iRacings implementation of the hybrid being on top of the ICE power (so performance related), it will create advantages for those who know vs those who don't. The simplified method that iRacing have implemented may give an advantage in some situations for players who try to manage it themselves, as there are trade off's in that they'll need to rebuild energy at some point likely start to lose lap time to someone who just leaves it in balanced the entire time during a race. So it is ultimately a game design choice, designed so players can just put the system in balanced and leave it there without being disadvantaged to those who do try and micro manage the system themselves.

[@Marcos20124]

how can you turn the view in the game following your head? sorry if it'sa stupid question

[@Yorkie065]

I'm using TrackIR 5, which is a head tracking device.

[@Marcos20124]

@@Yorkie065 thank you!!

[@grahamcrackergaming1540]

So I seen a post on the iRacing Reddit, someone posted iRacing’s response to the criticism of the hybrid in the GTP cars. They said they seen the feedback and r aware of it and r looking into it and/or already developing something and will announce something “soon.” Kinda just depends on what their definition of soon means. Not really defending iRacing, but my guess is they probably already have their hands full with other content and getting the bump start in the current LMDh cars already on the service along with a lot of the other updates to the sim that the proper hybrid is more so a second hand issue to them. Could we see the proper hybrid to the GTP cars this season? Probably not. Could we see it come for Season 2? Probably yeah.

[@Yorkie065]

Tbh, I'm not holding my breath. It's been (almost) 2 years since the first LMDH/GTP car was introduce and it has been the same (incorrect) for them with new cars introduced to the class. It has been mentioned on reddit and in the forum numerous times, but it's come to the fore-front again as this new car, that has a slightly different hybrid implementation irl, has the same system as the others and is even more inaccurate. I'll be happy when they do update it, but it's still not a good look.

[@vjollila96]

does irl have a different deploy system for qualifying? maybe would be interested to see second highest deploy mode vs no deploy mode

[@Yorkie065]

So IRL (based off what LMU and AMS2 does) has various maps that increase or decrease the rate of charge and the rate of deployment. There is a max rate of deployment as per the regulations, which is different between LMH and LMDH/GTP for BOP reasons. So there isn't a quali map per say but they most likely run on the highest deployment rate so they can carry and use less fuel. Remember IRL, the hybrid system is all based around efficiency, not performance. So using a higher deployment rate will use more battery, but less power from the engine and therefore less fuel, so less fuel is required onboard to make a lap.

[@_wyans]

@@Yorkie065it also makes sure there is a deficit in the SoC so you don't lose the braking power from the Regen. If the battery is full it won't charge.

[@christianAlston806]

Off topic but what pc do you have, I need to upgrade bad bc my game looks and runs nothing like this on monitor and in vr

[@Yorkie065]

My PC specs are in my channels about section.

[@Nineteenfivepointfive]

You still doing game development? On what you working currently?

[@Yorkie065]

I am yes. And can't say at the moment ;)

[@alozzola]

How does your in game camera move in motion with your turning? You’re not in VR and I didn’t think racing had that option. Thanks!

[@s3nTer]

He has headtracking hardware

[@SimCurves]

Looks like head tracking to me.

[@DustySticks]

TrackIR

[@Yorkie065]

DustySticks is correct, I use TrackIR 5

[@DustySticks]

@@Yorkie065 same 😉

[@joakimstensns1816]

Can we talk about the absolutely insane speeds through the corners of these cars in iRacing? What the f, is happening in this 'so called sim'...

[@Yorkie065]

I don't know. I've not tested myself but have seen others testing and they're getting insane speeds and laptimes. Seeing 55kph more speed through T1 of Sebring, 30kph higher speeds through Pouhon at Spa and lap times down in the 1:03's at Road Atlanta. It's crazy how out of whack this update seems to be.

[@MrSmygolf]

The flawed hybrid is nothing compared to the new tyre model :(

[@guitartube5822]

I’m new to the whole LMDh and HyperCard/ Hybrid thing. I’ve known there is something there that I need to learn and figure out how to use. I’ve been wondering why I’m so confused when trying to learn this. I feel like there’s a number of things iRacing just simplifies for mass consumption. I think even their FFB is oversimplified. As far as this goes, I would think the Fixed races are what allow people to use a simplified locked in version, and the extended races would be where people can tinker with things. Would this be incorrect? Immersion is a huge part of this for a lot of people and those details matter. I’ve been sim racing less than a year but it’s become my main habit/ hobby and I only will be diving deeper into it. EDIT: Are there any in depth tutorial videos out there on how to use/ manage these types of cars/ hybrid things through iRacing? Like for the Mercedes W13 and these cars?

[@_wyans]

Cope tbh. iRacing had always sold itself as the most realistic sim available. They've never released a hybrid manual afaik, for any car.

[@rendrag72]

They should have released this correctly, it’s not as if they do not have the resources. I am not renewing my subscription next year, it is just not worth the money when you have other sims that are so much better in so many ways. Why should we pay premium dollar for what is a good match making system attached to a second rate sim.

[@Yorkie065]

It's not looking great, and I'm quite disappointed that this is done badly. Seeing quite a few other issues as well, with crazy high speeds and fast lap times for GTP's, which are way faster than before.

[@S2GUnit]

I wasn't going to renew but I only did because my friends want to do the big events. The GT3's in this "sim" are absolutely terrible. The tyre model is atrocious.

[@S2GUnit]

What is the best sim for GT3's?

[@nikzeero]

​Lmu seems to have nailed gt3s pretty good so far ​@@S2GUnit

[@TonVanDerAa]

​@@S2GUnitsince this week, Le Mans Ultimate

[@stevejones3868]

Free - LFM - AMS2 - AC Evo are the iRacing killer.

[@raily9558]

yeah sure i keep hearing those thing since 2015 lol

[@stevejones3868]

@raily9558 Why, because it's currently popular? Hitler was once very popular too.

[@togwilson]

I hope Iracing keep it as it is. Makes it better for strategy when battling with someone. If it was realistic to just make the car use less fuel it wouldn’t be as fun imo

[@Yorkie065]

Except people rarely use it for that and just leave it in balanced the whole time. Once you go to attack/overtake or quali, you'll drain the battery and once you make the move and flick it back to balanced, the system is deploying less to regain charge to the 50% it targets and you therefore lose out on lap time and make you vulnerable to being passed again. If it were to be realistic, it is better strategy wise across a whole stint and an entire race, because you're able to balance that distribution between fuel and hybrid power. People will do this at different points throughout a stint based on the fuel load they're carrying, trying to maximise the stint length.