You Are Not A Good Engineer

If you are one of those guys that test dumps your certifications and then boasts on linkedin about your capabilities.....I want to be perfectly clear with you...the folks that actually know what they are doing....do NOT like you
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[@jschucke]

Love the tough talk. "I can handle the truth!" I'm a self-taught network guy. No certs, just hard work and persistent. I've had several instances of reported "Engineers" that I've hired for gigs knowing less than me, yet they still want $175 - $225/hr. So I totally agree with your assessment.

[@frankvanschijndel9080]

Totally agree. Hit the nail right on the head. Thanks for being so openminded and sharing this.

[@sullimd]

I see a lot of "Cisco guys" that boast as being a network engineer, but you throw them an Aruba or Ruckus switch, or a Fortigate or Palo, and they're clueless. That's not a network engineer to me. A true network guy should be able to troubleshoot and configure any device that's put in front of them. A VLAN is a VLAN, a route is a route, a firewall policy is a firewall policy. Doesn't matter what hardware or OS it is. I PREFER Fortigates, and I PREFER Aruba and ICX switches, but I work on everything.

[@FortinetGuru]

#TRUTH

[@riaanvandermerwe665]

100% agree. I work in consulting and work with so many different vendors. If you really understand the fundamentals of what you're working with, an appliance or networking OS should not make any difference. Plus, if you are vendor agnostic, you learn the nuances of all the different vendors, their integration niggles and just overall expands your knowledge on how network protocols actually work, and the finer details of thereof.

[@gregharris9861]

Agreed! 100% - I've seen CCIE's that couldn't network their way out of a paper bag. That said, I am due for some certs because the business model now seems to require them (AKA HR)

[@hasselnutz]

My employer is "encouraging" me to do NSE5 & NSE6 (mainly because of the partner status). I probably could do both of them just by reading the material. However I would prefer to get some hands-on experience of the relevant FortiProducts before trying to get those certificates. I feel that just reading about things without practical experience feels a bit like cheating. I actually operated Fortinet products for 7 years before I obtained any of their certificates.

[@vulcan6036]

One thing I would also say is that the companies don't support there staff with adequate training, alot my experience was hands on with live equipment.

[@ScottBoydathome]

This. All this. Invest in your people.

[@randomcrap763]

There is a reason I generally refuse to get a certification, because most of the time the questions are not geared toward the real world. My answer to what certs I have is "None, I know what I am doing" :)

[@vulcan6036]

I have to say I agree with what you say. Most companies want volume discount on there products, they require X amount of certified engineers. I once heard some from (a certain firewall vendor) tell a room full of security engineers to go on eBay and pay for the exam results. This was when I was working for a billion $ company, I was shocked. Thankfully for me 15 years of playing with these boxes at home and I'm enterprise environments had given me the experience that I need. In the same boat as you.. no certification.

[@JM-bl3ih]

i love how all you no cert guys have to try and shit on the guys that do have a cert and take them down a peg. it is possible that people with certs also have experience and know what they are doing. dont give us shit because your too lazy to validate your skills

[@Internet_Gangsta]

Usually people who pass exams using dumps are trying to get that entry level job or have a job but can't bother to study and are looking for easy way. Neither group is a threat as they lack confidence to do basics, let alone advanced networking in enterprise environments. While certification itself isn't important to do the job well - we all should know how to read a f***ing manual - it is important show credentials. Guru, your credentials are your KZbin channel, your website and testimonials from your clients. You don't need NSE 1-8. Braindumping sucks ass. It destroyed validity of certifications and it destroys enjoyment of taking the tests. Tests are becoming more and more about reading comprehension than technical knowledge.

[@MyGutFeeling_]

A lot of what I have done, be it VoIP, wireless networks, LAN design, Firewall segmentation, has mostly been learnt on the job. Sure I have studied CCENT, which gave me my basic understanding of networks, Meru Certified Engineer, which gave me a basic understanding of WiFi, and NSE4, which gave me a basic overview of Fortigate, but for me, doing is learning

[@FortinetGuru]

Tell me about your experience with engineers that were obvious test dumpers. Mine involves a CCNP that was an obvious dumper. Mainly because he couldnt 1. explain what a default gateway was, asked me "how deep DNS was", could never understand the in and outs of IPSEC tunnels, and could not configure a switch with a few VLANs to save his life......BUT HEY! He had that CCNP THOUGH! /sarcasm ALSO, if you down vote the video I assume you are a test dumper :P

[@MrSanjayman]

For 2000 pc approx what is the sizing of fortigate. Is 400E suitable?

[@FortinetGuru]

How fast is the internet connection? What level of UTM are you wanting to do? Are you terminating VLANs on the firewall? Are you wanting UTM between VLANs? How fast are the downstream connections?

[@MrSanjayman]

@@FortinetGuru i have dual Internet connection approx 50/50mbps later it will approx 100 mbps each link. Almost 10 vlan right now but later it will be 5 vlan addon. UTM will be used also sanboxing

[@FortinetGuru]

Size your FortiGate based on how much bandwidth you will be performing UTM on. So if you have 15 total VLANs and you want to do UTM between them but they live on a 1 GIG link....size for 1 gig. (I usually size a few times higher for growth).....

[@MrSanjayman]

@@FortinetGuru its about 2 year growth planning. So for UTM there will be 5 to 7 vlan its only for internet outbound n inbound traffic. So i am planning to procure 400E. Is it usable for me approx 3-4year.. growth rate i have already mentioned..

[@damonaniton]

Definitely spot on. Especially about many of these FB groups. I am in an AWS group that is filled with nothing but people looking for or offering dumps. The majority are also not in this country and I will leave it at that. The companies at time muddy the water and value of certs at time too though. From a recruiting stand point many people cant get past the key word search without them. And as others pointed out they are only used as a selling point for a VAR. They are not an accurate representation of what a person knows. But at least a base line of what they should know.

[@mkolus]

I agree, my point of view on certifications is that they should *confirm* what you already now. It's no good to have, let's say, a NSE7 and you then can't read a "diagnose debug".

[@FortinetGuru]

Absolutely

[@prashanthnayak6904]

we did for almost 100 stores.... however personally i did based on looking from your video camly from begining... thanks a lot

[@GenX-Memories]

Over 22 years in industry. I've been supporting Fortinet (FortiGate, FortiSwitch, FortiAP, FortiManager, FortiAnalyzer, FortiClient EMS, etc.), including builds, deployments, and management, for just over two years now. My company forced me to get the NSE4 last year. I read all ~1200 pages of the Fortinet study documents from the Fortinet NSE Institute and took the official practice exam over and over until I had memorized all of the questions and answers. Took the exam and passed. It was hands-down one of the hardest certs I've attempted (I have the CCNA and others as well). Now I'm being asked to get the NSE7. Here we go again, sigh.

[@BradMottram]

All self taught here! Personally i don't see the need to have certification for this that and the other thing. Just because the piece of paper says you can do it does not mean that when the rubber meets the road you can actually perform in the real world. I am a hands on person so study and classrooms don't do it for me. Give me the thing and let me muck around with it and figure it out.

[@MOSTEFAOUIAhmedAmine]

My boss keeps pushing me to get the NSE4 to show it to our clients... but i told him that i can't do it now because i'm not feeling yet that i deserve the title despite the fact that i did deploy and maintaining many networks

[@whiskeycharlielima5576]

I whole heatedly agree about Cert, Hate them with a passion, But with that being said I am a holder of several, due to work not requiring them but strongly encouraging to have them. I do a lot of Contract work so having them does open the HR door, but it is the experience that will make you keep the position. All that being said, I enjoy your video's and please keep making them, I am currently beating my self up to learn Fortigates Gui/Cli as my current contract is all about the Fortinet lines. thanks

[@rakaperbawa]

My current mid life crisis is afraid that I am not good enough network engineer, I am just feel not as confidence as before, the more a read books, do lab, watch tutorial video, the more I am worried, there are shit tons of things that I still not know

[@FortinetGuru]

There will always be tons of things you do not know. The moment you think you know it all, you have failed. The point, and the best one to make, is that you are learning not only the "how" but the "why" things are done a certain way. When you do that, the principles transfer all over the place. Meaning you actually know and understand much more than you think.

[@steve-3140]

I've worked in IT for 35 years now. No meaningful qualifications. No degree. I run rings around a lot of people. I know serious expertise when I see it in others and I'm always prepared to pay for that expertise. I've never asked anyone about their qualifications.

[@JM-bl3ih]

cool story.

[@rodneyaltamera4057]

So true! There are a lot of users they're not learning the craft. They're just memorizing to pass the exam. You should learn to become a very good Network Engineer.

[@ewitte12]

We have a very good networking engineer I'm tired of having to go to 2 guys when I can't figure something out. If I don't learn studying for NSE4 it's not going to help me. I've found the dumps are wrong anyway. If I don't know a question 100% I look up docs, cookbook, etc and figure it out.

[@DannyMaas]

I partially Agree. When i worked for a Distributor, Fortinet demanded they held certain certifications, so in a rush i had to get certified on a vendor i hardly knew back then. Ofcourse I found a bunch of exam questions, but most of them (as in a dump) were not answered correctly. Since all questions in a Fortinet Exam are based on the course materials, I could backtrace those and in that proces, I learned more than any NSE Course could have learned me. As I went on to become a Fortinet Trainer, it irritated me on how this was overlooked by Fortinet's own trainers. All you need to pass the test is literally in the books. But it doesn't give you any experience at all. I used to create extra assignments for the people to pass time while waiting for my slower students. In these assignments I created "helpdesk problems" based on the stuff they previously learned during the course. While sometimes baffled by how quickly people forgot important items, most of them enjoyed the extra experience and call to their wits. Turned out that due to this, I had a better "passed the exam"-rating then Fortinet's own.

[@FortinetGuru]

Remember, I didn't say having certifications was bad. I said test dumping for them was. Vendors require partners to have certain levels of certification because they hope the partner is actually learning and is able to adequately manage, size, deploy, and control their products. A lot of vendors get thrashed by partners that have test dumpers to maintain minimum quotas.

[@liquathrushbane2003]

Has been an issue for years - in my region (Middle East) there are paper-CCIE's who don't even know how to open a TAC case, or diagnose a broadcast storm. You can always spot a fake engineer when they open their mouth - nonsense comes out, and sadly it takes time, effort and resources to rebut their crap. I don't hold any certs right now, but can easily run rings around most here .. shame the employers + recruitment agencies only want to see certs !

[@VucciManeLaFlare]

I agree, I am a younger guy 7 years in IT, started learning in 2011 and now I’m a network infrastructure engineer and it was all due to experience, reading, understanding, listening and doing.. that’s what allowed me to excel in IT. I have IT certs and I feel that the person should learn the technology and become fluent in the technology in order to become really skilled and then take the exam to solidify. I do see value in certs in terms of the resume/HR/Promotional political game.. but the person should of gotten the cert after piggy backing off of their experience first..if that makes sense..

[@FortinetGuru]

Certs are definitely valuable. Most folks test dump them though.

[@terryo9838]

I have several certifications including Fortinet certs. Certs look good on a resume but that is where their value ends for me. A 5 minute conversation with someone will tell you if they actually understand networking concepts. I can't tell you the number of people who look amazing on paper but don't know basic networking. A lot of which I have worked with and interviewed that can't explain core networking concepts like DCHP, ARP and TCP/IP. Fundamental things that haven't changed. Ask someone to describe the process from getting an IP through DHCP to connecting a website step by step. That has been a staple question in every interview I conduct because it weeds out the ones that don't have basic knowledge pretty quckly.

[@prashanthnayak6904]

last but not least thanks for the compliment

[@prashanthnayak6904]

i'm not network engineer but forced to do.... i overcome the issue... thank you for the compliment

[@victorparlindungan3624]

you know what is funny? when you meet someone who have CCNA but didn't know about Cisco Official Cert Guide.

[@Xaranthos]

Personally going through the NSE5 training (FortiManager, FortiAnalyzer) to learn it myself. And I also got an eval on both of them from fortinet. So I've been setting it up as a "lab" while watching how to do it, and changing my setup to fit "our" way of working. I'm new to fortnet products, but did CCENT/CCNA back in the day (like 2000 or so), I got some basics of networks atleast. hehe. Personally I hate the dumpers, and I've worked with many of them, and I usually tell them to go learn the stuff and come back, as they will not get any access to systems I controll unless they can prove they know systems. (And I am there myself now, that I need to prove to myself that I KNOW what the hell I'm doing, aka learning it before I do anything in production systems). It's a horrible problem if you work with people from India/Sri Lanka and so on, as it's the "Norm" there to dump and get as many certs as possible, even though they don't know anything about the systems.. But then there is the other side of this.... I also feel that actually fortinet, microsoft, cisco ++++ has most of the blame... I work as a consultant, and I've been working with many of the bigger suppliers, and every time it's the same: You need X amounts of certs in the company to be able to gain X,Y,Z benefits with us.. I.e. Fortinet: You need X number of NSE 1,2,3 and 4 to gain a 10% discount with us. Or : You need the previous tier, and NSE 5 for us to feature you on our Partner list. This feeds into the many certs are good, even though you don't know the product.. And I hate it.. So I told my boss, I'll take the cert, WHEN I'm ready, when I KNOW the products and have worked enough with them ^^

[@saikenjkd]

Working for an MSP requires a certain percentage of our staff to be NSE4 or above qualified to maintain partner status. Though I am the lead network engineer in the office, I have not set a single NSE exam, everything I know is from breaking and fixing networks (labs not clients of course.... well, mostly ;P). We have hired tier 2 and 3 network engineers that have NSE and CCNP certifications, but none of them have basic troubleshooting knowledge. Its hard to get it through to management that certifications really don't mean much these days (other than showing you have potential interest in networking). Are you going to make a video covering FortiSwtich NAC at all? It seems to have gone unnoticed by much of the Fortinet community

[@bearb319]

I would say that at some point you should get certified. My beef on many of the tests is that they are written in a language that no one speaks or writes, very misleading questions sometimes. For my job, acquiring NES4 and 5 are job performance goals, so I will complete testing.

[@jimtotheray]

The other that gets me is when a competitor comes into a client and smooth talks them telling them all the thing that their devices do and how fortigate is a no good product. Then sells them a smb firewall with crappy services then the client calls me wondering what went wrong. Smooth talking pretty graph/PowerPoint guy shit all over them and took their money.

[@bnavarro]

I have no certifications at all i wish to have some but i think have a lot of certifications not define you as a great engenieer, most of the time these certifications are just a requirement to get a job because 90‰ of the enterprises froce you to get cerfications to give you the job some times it doesnt matter if your have the knowledge because they need that piece of paper says you are certificated in this and that, well that's my humble opinión.

[@mikewa9097]

The training now a day's seem so light that you get an overview of how the equipment works and gives you some basic examples. The trainers typically take questions on notice then go away and research an answer for you...so lame. I can do that same research myself! So how much kudos does industry place on certifications, well in my mind it is an indication that you have been exposed to the product. It is only until you spend time working with the product (minimum 2 years), that you can say you have a handle on knowing where to navigate to / etc. When you have been working across various sites for 5+ years then your skills vs a recently certified person are like chalk and cheese!!!

[@ovaisidrees5452]

Even though I agree about all these shitty certification having no value, but Mike here in our region, where most of the clients first ask for the partnership letter from the principal Brand, 1) Companies force their employees for partner status upgradation and stupid tender requirements. 2) Employees do it to catch their next Interview seat in a better company. 3) The system is designed in such a way that the opportunity gives your exposure and exposure give you experience and opportunity is usually created by these so called certs, So what's your point of view on that, the system is designed in such a way sadly.

[@FortinetGuru]

Remember, I didn't say having certifications was bad. I said test dumping for them was. Vendors require partners to have certain levels of certification because they hope the partner is actually learning and is able to adequately manage, size, deploy, and control their products. A lot of vendors get thrashed by partners that have test dumpers to maintain minimum quotas.

[@arivoarivo5181]

We always say: There are the certified, and there are the certified

[@FortinetGuru]

Indeed

[@6401ben]

You forgot lab and reread

[@serverch]

This is sooo true!

[@rodrigofernandes8171]

Totally agree!

[@chumiist]

great video man

[@ggonzalez2689]

An NSE7 that is handling my support ticket doesn't know anything about Fortimanager Cloud. I couldn't do FSSO and LDAP integrations from the Manager Cloud and the person that is supposed to help me, starts the conversation saying he doesn't have experience with Fortimanager Cloud (I'm like really dude?? and ur an NSE7??). I knew opening a support ticket was a waste of time but we had to look good in front of the client and thats why we needed a written answer from them. 7 Days later I still haven't got an answer from them and I already know that FSSO and LDAP aren't supported from the Manager Cloud because its a limitation thats caused because of how Fortinet is handling their AWS environment... Another experience was with and IT Director of a big company here that distributes a few auto brands (Nissan, Mitsubishi, etc) asking me if the Network Cable that I was using (I was using a serial cable and was connected to a pretty old Cisco Catalyst 3560) was "specially configured" to allow me to enter the switch's cli. (I couldn't hold it and I laugh so hard at the gentleman's face that the next day I got removed from the project). One thing is asking which settings I used to connect to the switch and another thing is asking me if the cable itself was "configured". It was way too much for me and I tried soo hard not to laugh but I just exploded.. hahahahaha..!!

[@FortinetGuru]

It happens to the best of us. Sometimes it is hard to keep it in.

[@alexanderastardjiev9728]

NSE7 is irrelevant to your case... NSE4 is for administrating FortiGates, NSE5 is for administrating FortiManager and FortiAnalyser. However couple of years ago when I took both NSE4 and 5 there was no such think as FortiManager Cloud. NSE7 is for advance FortiGate troubleshooting and has nothing to do with FAZ and FMG and also doesn't require you to have NSE6 (you can jump from 5 to 7 directly). So in my humble opinion it is very plausible to be NSE7 certified without any experience with the cloud product. Have in mind that people working in TAC team are very very strictly separated. I have several ex-colleagues that moved to work for Cisco TAC teams and they told me there were several separated security teams - one that is supporting only VPN, one that only support ACLs and NAT and one that is supporting the IPS/IDS on the same bloody device! So don't expect from the fish to climb the tree.

[@uendarkarplips7263]

That shirt is hilarious.

[@sabotocki]

Engineers who don’t put out quality work make me look better. There has to be a distribution of bad, average, and top engineers at any company. Like you said, I’ll make money off your clients who want quality service. So keep cheating guys!

[@EverythingEvo]

I'm an experienced Network Engineer. Who the heck uses Facebook groups for that stuff?

[@FortinetGuru]

You would be surprised. I think the term is “inexperienced network engineers” though 😜

[@rickw101011]

Hi Mike. i'm trying to set my Fortigate up so that i can control internet access using AD groups. Please could you provide some info on the best way to go about this.