"You Can't Possibly Have A Patent For That..." | Dragons' Den

Stuart Archbold and Andrew Leslie from 'Shopbox Systems Ltd' entered the Den seeking £250,000 in their business grocery delivery service that specialises in outdoor temperature-controlled containers. Later in the pitch - Duncan has a very heated debate with Stuart about the validity of the patent they have secured - he argues that there is nothing to stop other people from copying the idea to put a chip in the box to control the temperature. Stuart stands his ground and completely disagrees with the Scot. But has Peter just stumbled across an outstanding patent?
An international sensation, Dragon's Den features entrepreneurs pitching for investment in the Den from our Dragons, five venture capitalists willing to invest their own money in exchange for equity.
#DragonsDen #PatentProblems #PeterJones

[@truthhurtsthenheals4421]

Im guessing Theo got thrown in a few bins back in his day lol

[@daveblackwell8463]

😂😂😂

[@Anu_Sol]

Bin boy Theo giving it the biggun.

[@bizzzzzzle]

Sirius Anime wtf are you on about

[@jackhayward34]

I would love to throw theo in a bin

[@stsk7]

@@omegagiga not only must you change it but you will also lose your job

[@MrFooFighter13]

2010: "In 3 years, delivery windows will be down to 10 minutes" 2020: Your order will arrive between 10am-2pm .... maybe.

[@JeremiahEcks777]

I know, I was thinking the same. I mean we're slowly getting there but Peter sorely underestimated how far all of the structures needed to make the reality happen were. I don't think this was the way to fix the problem (just from Theo's objections anyway) but Peter's 'guarantee' was wrong. These guys were arrogant, slightly deluded, but I can at least see they were trying to address a problem. Fair play. Nice try. But it's not the right solution. The right solution is figuring out how to make specific deliveries timed well.

[@clockywork]

@@JeremiahEcks777 hilarious how confident Peter is with his false prediction isn't it?

[@JeremiahEcks777]

@@clockywork I agree. But in fairness to him he's not far off. The only problem is that the companies still rely on humans and human error combined with companies always choosing the cheapest options will make that precise timing impossible. For now.

[@paulnunnink7338]

So that!

[@kemiiboku1397]

In Canada it happens with instacart already. I usually get my groceries within 30mins

[@intergalactic92]

Peter Jones telling Duncan Bannatyne that he is wrong is one of the most satisfying moments in the den.

[@MossXM]

Well in the end Duncan was still right because it didn't amount to anything.

[@jordanconnor1223]

​@@MossXMPeter was never going to invest lol

[@keiranokeeffe6682]

​@@jordanconnor1223 nah Peter wanted that patent defo

[@JasonBerder]

The patent was found to be unenforceable and is now expired so Duncan was actually right.

[@PredatorianStyl]

@@JasonBerder source?

[@Cycke86]

You can google the story of the patent. It was basically worthless, expired in 2019, was valid only in England and every attempt those guys had to expand the patent failed miserably. No one tried to fight the patent in court, but it seemed indefensible and the patent officer who granted it must have been drinking. So on paper they had something, but Duncan was very right.

[@Jug_or_not]

yeah also if you look up the accounts for the company they are currently inactive and seem to have a lot of debt if I am reading it right

[@scottmorrison1561]

Why exactly was Duncan right? They couldn't do the things you've listed, but they still had the concept patent right?

[@pierrehalb4675]

⁠@@scottmorrison1561he was right that the concept they showed up with could not be patented, even though the piece of paper said so he kept on not believing it was possible

[@elvickRULES]

@@scottmorrison1561a patent that is unenforceable in all but one country is virtually worthless. (Excluding places which don’t honor them to begin with)

[@sam-psonsmith9951]

@@elvickRULES also, patents are usually quite expensive. You have to make up for that in sales, or your patent is just dragging you down.

[@bigguy1164]

*slaps side of murder bin" "This bad boy will kill so many children."

[@johncrichton7461]

I'm in.

[@JustinSane50]

John Crichton hahaha

[@Nickersons-Theme]

Murder bin hahahaha

[@darekbaird]

Look...if we can just sell some in Skyrim I'm in.

[@Uouttooo]

Put a release latch inside like car trunk in the second version. Jezuz ...

[@zydhas2838]

Mans basically spending a million to make an outdoor fridge.

[@IceFire1800]

Which is hilarious because Lite'n'Easy have a foam box with some dry ice in it, and it's way cheaper than this rolling deathtrap

[@89TNash]

Z's Life but like the Walmart delivery version or amazon lock box version is what they meant by concept. That’s why I the guy said you pitched the idea wrong, it’s not about the box it’s about the concept. They need to be advertising it like amazon advertises the lockbox they have for mail delivery service.

[@Jebu911]

Design of it is extremely ugly but im sure they could fix that.

[@GodOfPlague]

@@riseagain845 sweet cold relief from a hot summers day. Good good I want a cold box my friends can lock me in so I can enjoy the outside and have sweet heat relief.

[@Comrade_Jason]

This is painfully accurate. And most UK homes have a cupboard by the front door. It wouldn't be all that hard to put a little fridge in there. You could leave a padlock unlocked and the delivery guy could lock it once he has placed the food inside. It took me a minute and zero Pound Sterling to solve the problem.

[@Kuroganekisaki]

"You don't have a patent" "Yes I do" "No you don't. Show me" "Here's the patent." "No. Dragons, help me." "He has the patent" "No." BRUUUUH TAKE THE L ALREADY

[@BenjaminGoose]

L?

[@gristlelollygag]

@@BenjaminGoose loss

[@paullee5573]

Something is wrong about this. It is not possible to patent a concept, only a spcific design. I know this from my experience with a behind the ear hearing aid which I designed many years ago. If it were possible to patent a concept then every single mp3 player would have put money in my pocket. Which would have made me a multi millionaire by now. It didn't, and I'm not. I rest my case.

[@truckwarrior5944]

@@paullee5573 Especially you would not be able to patent a concept that has been out there a decade before they started doing their own design of it. I got a friend who does produce and sell units like that, they got their own patent after this show, they don't have to pay fees or anything to those people, so their patent obviously does not really cover the whole concept.

[@deedee5909]

Paul Lee .

[@jackmathieson1903]

When Duncan read the patent you could tell that he knew he was wrong but didn't want to admit it 😂

[@williamthomson7820]

But he wasn't!

[@Odin.x.]

@@williamthomson7820He was...

[@PlayMoreGolf-RipOff]

And then PETER told him

[@f0xyLuv]

He was wrong in theory but in practice the patent was basically worthless and expired in 2019.

[@marks6663]

He is not called Theo the fetus for nothing. He is always thinking of the children.

[@-M0LE]

Mark S nice

[@normanthomas4169]

@ALWAYS ANGRY!!! ALL THE TIME!!! eehh is the best of the garden pictures attached by the new York tools

[@mikeoxmells-grimm8876]

😭😭😭😭

[@pepperorsalt]

Thinking ABOUT the children. Hmm.

[@petuphiri2211]

Just like that, my day made! :)

[@carpii]

Lock Jenny in the box. Lets see her get out of that

[@itsahmed450]

And when she pops her head out she'll say "I'm out"

[@goozerman1]

hi im jenny, a celebrity , get me out of here, btw im OUT.

[@for111]

Brilliant!

[@klaudiamichalska8782]

😂😂😂😂

[@samuel1836]

🤣

[@graham9352]

Me: *my deliveries arrive while I'm out* Kardoctor: *put them in the bin*

[@68404]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@The_Orgazoid]

It’s 2022 and the company is £1 million in debt, according to their latest accounts.

[@hugo13231]

Their faces when peter said the patent was legit 😂😂

[@MaestroAlvis]

I know. 9:32 is Duncan realizing peter hasn't agreed with him.

[@MrJamberee]

If it was legit, Peter would have invested in a nanosecond. It’s not. He doesn’t have a patent blocking everybody else from using a home delivery system. It’s nonsense.

[@emissarygw2264]

@@MrJamberee yeah, and I'm pretty sure there are lots of other ways to solve the same problem that would just as equally put them out of business from a competition standpoint.

[@hugo13231]

@@MrJamberee he put a million pounds on the table within seconds, which is like 10% of his liquidity, but he wanted a major stake because he doesn't trust the guy will make it work. Patents like these are rarely granted but they do exist thought they are very expensive to enforce. In essence, that piece of paper is worth gold but only in the right hands and if peter doesn't control a significant part of the company then it's likely that the company will sink and they wont have the resources to enforce the patent.

[@dephc0n1]

@@hugo13231 I thought he was trying to buy a majority of the company so he could sell the company+patent to one of his friends who is already working on the idea.

[@moonwhistle]

The short Dracula fella looks like he sleeps in his climate controlled food coffin when he's not expecting a delivery.

[@AdeptusPsychonautica]

old silas funniest thing i have read on youtube all day

[@verlene10]

Bruh I'm dying of laughter 🤣🤣🤣

[@joaopauloreisnogueir]

Hahahahahahahaha

[@thatdude4639]

old silas 😂😂😂😂

[@beeboopopper6825]

4:35 vampire stare lol

[@guter6534]

I mean that's why Peter Jones is the richest dragon. He plays chess while everyone else is playing checkers.

[@Warcodered01]

Right the only one to actually start to thoroughly look through there paperwork is the most interested it's almost like they should of taken this seriously instead of looking for gotcha moments.

[@LuluTheCorgi]

@@Warcodered01 except two things: 1. China doesn't care about patents And more importantly: 2. The patent isn't gonna hold in court. Getting a patent is easy, defending that patent in court isn't

[@oliprj8676]

James Caan is the richest of these 5

[@guter6534]

@@oliprj8676 No he is not. Caan is worth 95£ million while Peter is worth about 500£ million.

[@techtitanuk5609]

Duncan is richer

[@ManCave1972]

2010: 90% of households are empty during the day 2020: We’re all at home getting 3 orders a day without a dalek outside costing us £12.99 a month

[@jameswilliams752]

Let’s be honest, they were trying to pitch an air conditioned wheelie bin

[@stonedaurelius6496]

well lets be honest, iphone is just cellural calculator...

[@mrsnoop1820]

they had the patent for that

[@airkami]

with a thermostat

[@MAC_HAMMER]

Let's be honest, the Catholic church is just a sanctuary for pedophiles.

[@markotodorovic7013]

Turns out they have changed the design and now they are highly successful. It was just design that was bad.

[@Weazelmania]

99% of these dragons den pitches are like high school design tech "problem" assignments.

[@thefountainpendesk]

Weazelmania that's is what they are

[@michaelscott8567]

How many times have you looked at an invention that is making the inventor Millions. And thought "Man. That's simple idea, why didn't i think of that?" This isn't a bad idea. Probably would have been better if it was brought out 10 or 15 yrs ago. But with the way the internet is going, shopping is going to be more on demand and instant, just like the guy said. I'll give them a 7/10 for effort. but i think it's too little too late

[@emissarygw2264]

@@michaelscott8567 it isn't a bad idea, but these 2 seem waaaaay out of their depth in terms of turning it into an actual business. They also don't seem to understand that this is something that big companies like Amazon would just spin up a small team (0.1% of their workforce) to implement and they'd get it done way faster, cheaper and better and with way better adoption than 2 schmucks on dragons den could ever hope to achieve.

[@St4rdog]

@@michaelscott8567 Yeah, it seems this would've worked for a few years, but Amazon are already have Amazon Key, which is a lock for your door that drivers can open and just put your packages inside your home. It comes with a camera and phone alerts.

[@ghstie]

YES

[@thedarkness97]

I like Theo, always pointing out the flaws in an invention.. He's the "Here's where it can all go wrong" guy!

[@vishmaster09]

9:00 Duncan: you have notning. I hope you can get on with your life because you've already spent £900k 2 mins later Peter: what equity would you give me for a million pound investment?

[@elephantseal2657]

What if a kid, locked their sibling in the bin from the outside, and also their parent's forgot he existed, and also the other kid has memory loss and forgets his sibling is in a trash bin fridge, and also the kid in the bin is a mute and can't call for help, and also has no limbs so he can't make any noises and also the fridge malfunctions and goes to minus 400 and also the bin gets taken away and thrown into a trash compactor? How could you ever put something like this in the commercial market, and for that reason I'm out.

[@noiiiiiize]

Holy crap, actual lol.

[@tomr6955]

Exactly. How could you have Freezers are the supermarket also, how terrible

[@Muricanwerewolf]

You’ve never heard of kids suffocating in old refrigerators? It’s happened, and is a reasonable concern for anything that’s airtight and can’t be opened from the inside.

[@AB-tv3iz]

I'LL BE BACK ! What kind of SICK TWISTED NASTY HORRIBLE MIND What a terrible person!!!!!

[@intrepidtomato]

I think that is a completely fair question on Theo's part. Don't even like children that much, but of course it would occur to kids to climb inside something the size of a wheelie bin or put one of their mates inside. And if that thing is hard to open, that is a problem.

[@Troublenut]

Jenny: oh my goodness I really need one of these because whenever my food delivery comes, I’m out

[@QQ-ll4fd]

omg

[@ohcrikey9560]

Wolf boy 😂😂😂

[@brandym3926]

Yeah, that... that is what she said. Clearly there is some kind of joke here?

[@Troublenut]

@@brandym3926 umm surely you get the Jenny I’m out jokes?

[@brandym3926]

@@Troublenut ah. I see it now. It isn't funny, but okay, I see it

[@Derek.Joseph]

Old boy Stuart has some tenacity. Everyone is a tough guy online but I found him very articulate, granted he also scolded Duncan whilst disproving him.

[@meneurdujeu]

legend that guy

[@therandomkid9325]

i know him, he isnt and is like you see him here, he can make a point very well thats 4 sure.... nice guy though

[@Mikael2492]

When a guy couldn't admit they made a mistake even after reaching the patent. Don't care if he is rich or not.

[@MsMaryPatricia]

Theo takes child safety really seriously. I've seen him take apart two other child orientated products. He's right though.

[@BobCassidy]

I think he thought a lit up "kids on board" sign was a good idea too.

[@dilwich]

I got the sack from ASDA for getting confused with these containers and throwing the customers shopping straight into their bins . . . .

[@gazza2933]

I worked at ASDA once. I used to have days like that too 🤣

[@lynx8437]

I got the boot from ASDA for skrrtin about on the PPT :(

[@rayenbow3281]

Speaking of ASDA, I once bought 10 packets of Condoms from there and the cashier said, "Would you like a bag, Sir?" I said, " No thank you, she's not that ugly."

[@jakartaman3365]

@@rayenbow3281 Reminds me of the story about the duck that walked into a pharmacy and also bought a large supply of condoms. The cashier asked him if he'd be paying by cash or credit card and the duck replied: " No, just stick it on my bill."

[@stephenmurray2851]

@@lynx8437 I got fired from asda night-shift for headbutting someone. Absolutely one hundred percent true story. Asda in Glasgow.

[@mogadishusneeze]

Jenny's so out, she ain't even in the room.

[@mariaqayyum123]

mogadishusneeze 😂😂😂😂😂

[@dannemannen18]

She's in the box

[@chrismulgrew7710]

🤣🤣🤣

[@mipmipmipmipmip]

she was trapped in the bin duh

[@Denizen36]

The tall fella looks like a really nice, genuine dude. He looked like he was about to cry when Duncan said they had wasted 900K pounds and their patent was wrong.

[@hommefataltaemin]

He doesn’t seem that nice. He was making fun of Theo just because Theo had a legit concern about kids possibly being in danger.

[@Hunter88993]

The little fella looked like a bond villain

[@moviebuff3000]

I like how the guy brings up getting locked in the trunk of a car when pretty much all trunks have a release lever that let's you out

[@otocan]

Also, people don't usually leave their trunk open all day.

[@BenjaminGoose]

Cars don't have trunks, you're thinking of elephants.

[@Andrew-zd2ro]

Duncan: That’s a wheelie bin. It even looks like one. entrepreneur: I’m insulted. But actually yes its a wheelie bin with a special microchip

[@meab12]

VERY special microchip

[@meab12]

VERY special microchip

[@Jac70]

Super advanced microchip, used to call "em thermostats back in the old days!

[@baobo67]

@@Jac70 Right TJ Back in the days when carbon fibre was called black plastic.

[@therandomkid9325]

him: its a food storer thingy me/his family/freinds: its a wheelie bin

[@benji.B-side]

Duncan: That’s a wheelie bin. It even looks like one. Entrepreneur: But it's a wheelie bin with a brain.

[@thebaddestogre-3698]

It could be an original star wars droid.

[@Eidolon1andOnly]

@Luke Shaw's Daddy *should've

[@jhoughjr1]

A special microchip that's totally not a jelly bean MCU and simple temp sensor, one Peltier could do it.

[@rahjah6958]

I can’t lie Theo is completely right here 😂😂 I’ve done a similar thing with a FREIND And I let him out as soon as he said so, but I could only imagine some other people knew they would have left someone in there

[@fingerboxes]

This is actually a problem that has killed children: early fridges locked from the outside and kids got stuck in them and died. It's not a baseless concern but it does have a very simple solution, just put in the same kind of glow in the dark emergency latch that you have in cars. Pull the latch, door opens, problem solved.

[@tomben6180]

You can tell Peter and Duncan are mates, the look they gave each other when Peter offered a million.

[@wiskyr6510]

"I didn't come from a privileged upbringing" so... Therefore you know more about getting locked in a refrigerator than everyone else?

[@frankcastle9691]

I guess so lol.

[@redholm]

I mean. That probably just means he was locked in a bin or Fridge when he was a kid. But he did't want to go into his backstory.

[@doctorgears9358]

I would assume the idea is that he didn't live a sheltered life and is well aware of the things kids do for a laugh. For example dumping kids into bins. But I guess we can take it to the logical extreme.

[@koalabandit9166]

I wonder if he's ever heard of a rock. Those things are deadly.

[@hejalll]

@@koalabandit9166 If you grow up in a neighborhood with a lot of crime and you end up in a group of mates who play dangerous games, I could see them wanting to play a prank on one of their friends by locking them in here. Did you guys never experience bullying?

[@paulbrooks5612]

That patent is worth more than gold. Literally no one else can make any type of container for food delivery. He can license that into the millions

[@antheajohnson4234]

In the UK only though.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

and you still can make things to put things in as long as you label them right...

[@crazyrobots6565]

@@antheajohnson4234 most of the time the US and Europe will recognise UK patents, and I suspect they've already filed the required paperwork for the US patents as well.

[@gem_is_watching]

Crazy Robots I don’t know if Europe still validates that after Brexit XD

[@fredcollier2049]

@@gem_is_watching really? So how about the patents that were filed before EC/EU membership?

[@captpicard6894]

Here we are 2022, still not seen an air-conditioned wheelie bin outside everyone’s home.

[@legoluvver]

“You could lock someone in the boot of a car, too!” But there’s a safety handle on the inside of those now for a reason!

[@Mitjitsu]

Theo spent way too much of his childhood in wheely bins.

[@christaylor3911]

Over 900k spent on a wheelie bin which holds food. Horrific.

[@christaylor3911]

Alan P and yet Peter still didn’t even make an offer.

[@bilalgilgil1037]

Alan P Just because its got a patent it doesn’t mean that it’s a smart idea. Dont be absurd.

[@christaylor3911]

Alan P it’s cosmetically poor, no one wants that sitting in their garden. Plus it has safety issues with kids potentially getting trapped inside like Theo demonstrated. I think Debora was right, the idea is good, but you’d probably want something that sits with the confines of your property, not in a wheelie bin with a thermometer.

[@ItsThatVogue]

only a small loan of a million dollars

[@ojosazules8828]

These guys are deluded thinking this wheelie bin would succeed...moreover gangs would go round stealing them too if these were left outside properties....

[@gaithrislife]

My first question would be: “How will you ensure nobody steals it if nobody’s home?

[@bayuaji7299]

i mean, maybe thats one of the reasons why the container looks like trash can. its huge, standart looking lid,etc. maybe as a disguise so people think its a bin?. but again, when this thing spread out people eventually will know what it is

[@truckwarrior5944]

Units like this have been around for at least 20 years. The general way to solve this is by having a button on the container, that the delivery-people should press after delivery. That button would lock the unit. There is although smart-home-integration for things like that where the house-owner can lock or unlock this via phone.

[@gaithrislife]

@@truckwarrior5944 sure, but they can still steal the unit? Like remove it from the property? Depending on the construction obviously

[@truckwarrior5944]

@@gaithrislife Ah the unit, i thought you were talking about the food. Well t he units i know are basically chained somewhere or not really moveable at all. The unit they presented here however... yeah that could be taken.

[@gaithrislife]

@@truckwarrior5944 yeah that was my thought, but thanks for clearing it up 😋

[@kirishima638]

Peter was wrong. Late 2023. Amazon Prime can no longer guarantee next day delivery never mind a 15 min time slot.

[@ryleypalmer]

Maybe for you. I get Amazon and groceries delivered same day

[@BenjaminGoose]

Agreed, he was completely wrong.

[@MrMalkraz]

works for me!

[@PeteQuad]

Regular Amazon prime and groceries are different

[@bulldogmicro4279]

I laughed at Theo for talking about how a kid could lock them self up in this, but then I remebered my Grandma locked herself in the trunk of our car once for hours on end. So I guess Theo does have a solid point.

[@emissarygw2264]

I don't think that's a big deal. It's easily fixable. The problem is that (a) they didn't realize such a basic issue after investing nearly a million already, and (b) they wouldn't accept the validity of the point. With these 2 clueless guys in charge, it's a lost cause.

[@redbaron3555]

bulldog micro simple solution: add an handle to open the lock from the inside. Done.

[@tehhotline4225]

I hate It when they do that

[@dingo9696]

bulldog micro lmao why did your grandma lock herself in a trunk

[@davidwilliams9386]

How the hell did your grandma lock herself in the trunk?? Lol

[@JolyonSmith]

Some cars have "hostage handles" in the boot, precisely so that if someone somehow finds themselves shut in the boot of the car they can get themselves out. Just sayin'

[@RoaringPhilosopher]

I was surprised no one mentioned that. Yet someone could just flip it over as well making the opening face downwards.

[@anonony9081]

This is a regulatory requirement in North America

[@thefountainpendesk]

It's a legal requirement

[@JolyonSmith]

The Fountain Pen Desk not everywhere. In NZ some vehicles have it (e.g. Subaru Impreza), but not all. In fact it’s very unusual here.

[@jgodbee3090]

@@JolyonSmith any car sold in North America is required to have one by law so basically any car model which is sold there is likely to have one even if sold in NZ (they typically don't change that much from country to country except steering side). like NZ i could not find that it is actually a law in AUS but most cars released after 2002 have one unless they are not sold in USA.

[@lilschlagen]

What kind of pitch is: "Here's the concept and the amount of money we want." "And the equity in return?" "Well... we discussed it and we don't want to tell you."

[@40pianos]

What surprises me is why nobody asked, "If it's outdoors to accept parcels when nobody's home, what's to stop a thief from nicking the thing and everything inside?".

[@EpicWinNoob]

I mean, this isn't the worst 5-year plan ever implemented.

[@Alex-gf4iu]

EpicWinNoob HAHAHA. Brilliant

[@MitchellTF]

@@Alex-gf4iu ...It's in the top ten...

[@maxmustermann-zx9yq]

Soviet Union: allow me to intr...wait 5? I'm outta here Edit: nm Su had 5 year plan and NS germany 4

[@hwf8250]

😂

[@SimonJSlou]

@@maxmustermann-zx9yq the soviet union lasted for decades

[@wizzdom]

Man: “I don’t think it’ll ever happen”... Asda, Tesco: hold my trolley 😂

[@mirianadimitrova2112]

Theo is spot on - there have been instances of children who died locked in similar trash bins. Very appalling how the guy started smiling and dismissing his important concerns.

[@jaymercer4692]

A lot of people have been making fun of that remark but when I was a kid my older brother locked me in our shed in the garden, forgot and went out to play with friends. I was 6 or so years old and was locked in with my 4 or so year old brother. He was deathly afraid of spiders, which that shed was riddled with, and neither of us were particularly found of being trapped in a shed. We were eventually discovered when I was smashing the shed apart with a Tennis racket I had found and our mother had heard that. I was very close to cutting myself quite seriously on jagged bits of wood as I tried to squeeze out of the hole I had made.

[@nabilfreeman]

Actually, this idea was picked up in Shanghai and has pretty good adoption in residential apartment blocks. They are refrigerated lockers with multiple doors (like InPost etc.) if they had pitched this in 2017 with a good design (it does look terrible) and sold these to building management companies etc they could have been on to something.

[@elvickRULES]

“If they had a good idea instead of a bad one they could’ve done well!” That’s how that works yeah

[@iwannabentley]

Peter Jones was bang on with his projections on door to door shopping.

[@chrishudson747]

Mercedes mad when was this episode, it must have been several years ago, certainly more than 3? PJ’s prediction is still not even remotely close, so presumably the people he knows who were working on 10 minute windows have failed.

[@JoannaHammond]

@@TPH250290 Depends who's doing the delivery, my experience with Tesco is that it's always been in the window and if they would like to deliver early they phone to confirm it's ok. Never had a late delivery in over 5 years.

[@mrbookish6701]

@@chrishudson747 not true 2 years ago ,in Surrey, amazon grocers were doing this. 2 hour from purchase

[@chrishudson747]

Syntax Thesis 20 minute window to suit the buyer? Not a chance.

[@chrishudson747]

Daniel Caine Are you claiming that you can give Amazon a 10 minute delivery window and they will be there with your order within it? Unless you live in their distribution centre there is not a chance of them meeting such a delivery schedule.

[@Capeau]

That took some discipline from Peter. You can tell he realised the potential of that patent.

[@TController]

Duncan SHOULD have apologised for being wrong, & insulting a fellow businessman. This shows his principles

[@ksinghproduction]

I love this show! I just discovered it today and I can’t stop watching it!😎

[@zennamok5428]

Hate people like Dunkan. Refused to believe something was possible even when showed the patent. And when told he was incorrect was like. Nah not real.

[@kinkydaddy3147]

'Dunkan' 😂😂😂

[@regwatson2017]

Patent law is very complex. I doubt anyone but a patents lawyer could make sense of that document in a few moments.

[@elpechos]

Even if they do have a patent; it doesn't mean it's valid. People have been delivering food and milk to ice-boxes since the 30s. Because there is prior art the patent could easily be void.

[@speedyvedo99]

Lol dude, hes being realistic. Patent law means nothing to Chinese copy cat manufacturers. You can be rest assured that if this thing ever took off and started making money, there would be Chinese knock offs Amazon and Ebay within a month. And good luck trying to enforce your patent on them, its a huge issue today

[@Icetea-2000]

Yeah but he’s correct, even if the patent is exactly the way he described then in China or somewhere else in the world someone would make a better, cheaper and more wide-spread solution immediately. This isn’t something like cars where you can still excel through engineering expertise, this is just a fridge on wheels, someone will absolutely copy that.

[@bee-ep2gt]

if its basically a wheelie bin, can't a neighbour or someone just wheel it away? 😂

[@andipandi5641]

that is why it is micro-chipped but still a very significant liability that hugely undermines the viability of the business.

[@bee-ep2gt]

@@andipandi5641 imagine if they forgot to lock it aswell 😂 I could just go and steal all the food

[@lolhahah21]

@@bee-ep2gt That would be on the person who didn't lock it lolol that's it.

[@thedunyadoneya2628]

Not if it doesn't have wheels

[@tommyzoom9976]

I'm sure someone can just open it and take whatever tickles their fancy

[@noi5emaker]

"90% of houses are empty during the day." Not in 2022 Britain.

[@MrBellsa61]

3:35 "It'll never happen" Hearing him say that with such confidence, as I'm meeting the driver with my order at the door, having watched him arrive on the app 😂

[@jhoughjr1]

not in a three minute window as he stated.

[@ruffsnap]

Hahaha exactly. That was funny to watch in today's world, where you absolutely can get nearly anything delivered within hours or at least same day if you're anywhere near a sizable city.

[@cl1cka]

@@ruffsnap Mate supermakets are giving out 4 HOURS windows - what are you on about?? Peter was wrong.

[@ruffsnap]

@@cl1cka I think you replied to the wrong comment or something, idk, you seem to be confused lol

[@flyaround312]

@@ruffsnap The fact you can get it "delivered within hours or at least same day" is the *problem* they were trying to solve. If you're ordering food that needs to be a refrigerated or frozen you have to be there when the delivery arrives unless there's somewhere it can be stored until you get home, and if you don't have that then you have to stay home all day to make sure you're there to accept the delivery.

[@thedunyadoneya2628]

Me: just gonna breathe some oxygen. Duncan: You cannae!!

[@thedunyadoneya2628]

@@alistairthomson3870 fortunately, I never said pure oxygen, so it would be safe to assume I meant the commonly known amount.

[@EazyDuz18]

@@alistairthomson3870 no

[@MaestroAlvis]

@@alistairthomson3870 apparently that takes a while. Google says 16 hours of breathing pure oxygen leads to irreversible damage.

[@Bromley68]

"You can't lock yourself in it.....unless you get in and it's locked"

[@blackxcrowdy]

that's not locking yourself in, somebody else locks it

[@immortaltoaistisascamdonot4938]

Omg.....lol thats to funny

[@moneymaker8815]

Anyone else remember a similar product pitched that was also rejected? Not refrigerated but a package box

[@Jim-cj7pj]

They may have scoffed at Theo but there is a reason refrigerator doors no longer latch and if you want to throw on away your required by law to take the door off. Their refrigerator trash bin is slightly less dangerous but still a liability nightmare.

[@frabe81118]

Stuart is a terrible negotiator Peter - "I want to offer you 1 million pounds" Stuart - "Yeah but some guys have said they'll give us 200 thousand pounds so now im going to be complicated"

[@honeyyb]

Did he rly think they weren't gonna see right thru that

[@hezar5166]

Had a deal just sitting in the chair in front of him but didn't take it. Wonder how the company is doing today

[@scottwall8419]

No, he's an honest businessman. He's honoring his word to those who came before the dragons den. And if Stuart had negotiated behind their back in the same manor they're asking him to do to the others theyde be furious. The dragons den is so agitating to watch because they're are products that have absolutely blown up from this show that they went out on because "it was ugly" or they couldn't read a concept patent correctly. The lions den wouldn't have invested in anything successful it's seems, not sure how these idiots made money

[@frabe81118]

@@scottwall8419 *dragons den

[@scottwall8419]

@@frabe81118 lol, thanks, I corrected it. Sometimes it seems more like a lions den than dragons, seems like most days they just want to take a big bite out of the entrepreneurs hide rather than invest lol.

[@hydra66]

many years on, I've still not heard of it commercially. Peter was trying to snag the patent for his other businesses as mentioned at the beginning of the vid

[@AChannelFrom2006]

Says permanently closed on Google

[@archiehewitt4]

@@AChannelFrom2006 the accounts on companies house says otherwise

[@psionicinversion]

@@archiehewitt4 companycheck.co.uk/company/04156403/SHOPBOX-SYSTEMS-LIMITED/companies-house-data if thats right there net worth is about -£1,000,000. there company is pretty much dead i reckon

[@lethyadon1182]

Lol they have 15 directors

[@frabe81118]

​@@lethyadon1182 They're burning through directors, they currently have 4 directors, all the others resigned for some reason.

[@CalLadyQED]

I normally like Duncan, but he was a JERK here. Seriously. Even after Peter confirmed they had a concept patent, he was still refusing to believe it. SMH

[@BenjaminGoose]

He was right though, the patent was bullshit. Too broad and unenforceable.

[@truckwarrior5944]

The moment when he said he had a patent on the concept for keeping food at temperature outside a house for delivery services, i laughed so hard. That has been a thing way before he ever got the patent for his own box. I literally lived in a apartment with a similar box around a decade before they ever went to Dragons' Den with their Box.

[@joetri10]

Seeing Duncan getting body slammed by Peter was beautiful lmao

[@MrJamberee]

Except Peter is wrong. The refrigerator has already been invented, as has the garage refrigerator and freezer. Putting it outside with a lock on it is not going to be defensible. This is not the first time Peter has been wrong on patent and trademark laws. Also, if they really had such a patent, it would be worth much more than that, and Peter would have invested immediately.

[@gibran6190]

@@MrJamberee This!

[@kebabkebob7808]

@@MrJamberee If it wasn't defensible they wouldn't have been able to get a patent. This is pretty cut and dry to me if anyone tries to make a fridge designed to go outside then they will get sued.

[@user-bo3mp8un6c]

@@MrJamberee He has the patent, what don't you get? He shouldn't have the patent in my opinion but he does, he's obviously an influential person.

[@rje613]

@@MrJamberee A refrigerator isn't a lockable temperature controlled container, kept outside for storing deliveries while people aren't home.

[@stsk7]

The patent is very exclusive. Surprising they could get such a wide reaching patent

[@Folsomdsf2]

Until it's declared invalid.

[@anyexpat]

Until you go to court to defend it you do not know its worth

[@Cyba_IT]

Yeah, I wasn't aware that concepts were patentable. Hmmm I wonder if anyone has patented flying cars yet

[@Rapscallion2009]

Sir. You cannot patent a fridge. End

[@emissarygw2264]

Easy to get a patent. Impossible to defend it.

[@Mr-John.]

At 3:25 “I don’t think it will ever happen” in 2020 is amazing especially during isolation and we all have to shop

[@Shikohon]

6:15 there’s a lever inside boot of cars that you can pull to open the boot if you’re locked inside…

[@nicogs97]

People would actually buy these in America especially since everyone buys things on Amazon and many people get their stuff stolen.

[@nkosinathimlenzane3044]

@@SunWukongX lol. That's exactly what I was thinking.

[@StephanBranczyk]

I currently live in the US. For the concept to be somewhat successful in the US, it would need to be part of a delivery ecosystem like Amazon/Wholefoods. It would need to be more attractive (and not look like a street trash bin). It would need to be safe for kids (just like our car trunks in the US are since 2002). It would need to have an inside container and an outside container (so that the outside container is still somewhat usable even if the person inside has forgotten to return the other container outside, it could also be made more secure that way, and of course, the inside container could still have wheels if need be).

[@dolfanchambers84]

It’s kind of like the idea of having mailboxes and parcel lockers in a central location for developments and apartment complexes... having a few of the lockers be able to be chilled would be interesting for food delivery.

[@MaestroAlvis]

@@SunWukongX put a bike lock on it.

[@emissarygw2264]

Pretty sure Amazon fresh would launch their own version of this, for free, patent or no, and then you'd be SOL. They already have that thing where the delivery guy can send a signal to unlock the smart lock on your door and put the package inside, isn't much of a stretch to say you can stick a mini fridge inside the door for them to put food inside.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

In 3- 5 year guaranteed everywhere there will be 10 minute window slots, well done Peter it's 8 years later and you're still wrong.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

@Professor Mike AmericanuckRadio oh and also that's not at all what Peter Jones was referring too

[@poohcatchyou3917]

Actually, where I live, there are multiple apps that deliver groceries with a 30 minute window of accuracy to the time assigned. I can schedule deliveries in advance if required and the groceries are delivered almost always on time or within 30 minutes of the scheduled time. So Peter isn't wrong for saying that.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

@@poohcatchyou3917 He said ten minutes everywhere in the UK So firstly do you live everywhere?.... but more importantly seen as you used the word groceries do you even live in the UK?

[@samhackett5715]

@@Alex-cw3rz you don't use the word groceries?

[@987mattj]

@@Alex-cw3rz He said everywhere, so if you live anywhere and it is not possible then by definition it's not possible everywhere by implication. As someone who lives somewhere in the UK and doesn't have this, can confirm it's impossible.

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

"That same prank could be done in any car trunk!" No. Car trunks open from the inside, unless it's a very old car. (Fact checks myself on the web) Yeah, apparently every car built since 2002 is supposed to open from the inside always. Which makes sense, your supposed to lock things into there, not people. So no, it's not an outlandish thought and car manufacturers are obligated to think of that.

[@candice9169]

I see this working. If you want a specific slot and they don't have it, you have to rebook the next day. I think that the wheelie bin concept is wrong, a larger kinda of box, with a code would work better I reckon.

[@hiimjustin8826]

"It's legit" "No" Well good to see what that's guy's about

[@reaperoflostsouls4323]

If i was one of the dragons i would of asked him this question. If 90% of homes in the UK are empty during the day how did Jeremy Kyle become famous.

[@henrytheeightheist8091]

The people who watch Jeremy Kyle live on cigarettes,cheap booze and microwave meals.....they get these things delivered by taxi thanks to the overly generous benefits system we have in the UK.They have no requirement for a chilled 'wheelie bin'......

[@reaperoflostsouls4323]

@@henrytheeightheist8091 They would keep it next to the sofa for beer and junk food to save going to the fridge

[@nakefatty9167]

@@henrytheeightheist8091 i drive to Waitrose to buy fresh food thanks to the overly generous benefit system in the UK. i dont watch Jeremy Kyle because i have no desire to look down my nose at people. im glad you're proud of your job. And thanks for your generous tax contributions.

[@FriendlyNeighbourhoodSpidey]

@@nakefatty9167 get a job

[@lincoln7184]

reaper oflostsouls Skiving off at work 😀

[@crazymonkeyVII]

3:42 Peter was spot on with that. In the Netherlands we had delivery shopping during covid that arrived in under 10 minutes in many places. I once got my order in 5 (granted, in a city center), but it was around 10 minutes in most urban areas.

[@Nathan-nn9dn]

I work in the groceries delivery business for a large supermarket chain and it is conpelatly against all policy to deliver to a house without seeing the face of the customer. No customer in. No shopping left.

[@fjoo]

Turning down 1million to keep negotiations going for 200 k... 😂

[@FlyboyHelosim]

One of the most glaring issues with this, that nobody pointed out, is what if someone just comes along and walks off with it? Someone could just walk away with a week's free groceries or parcels. I've seen kids take wheelie bins over a mile away just to burn them out, so someone could easily steal a bin full of good stuff.

[@bendover4773]

Yep, whack it on a skateboard, roll it down the street. Gg ez game

[@sbarmiueenl]

And the wheels just make it even easier to steal

[@emperorlelouch6322]

As with most drop-rentals nowadays, at least in my parts, it should have a GPS chip in it that would make the bin trackable. They came in with a conceptual prototype, it was certainly in no state to be put outside someone's door like that. Gotta have a way to unlock it from the inside, it's got to be stress tested and redesigned, and as you said the issue on how to make theft preventable. It needed a lot more work before it came onto the show, and the concept itself is very susceptible to the fast drastic changes of the delivery industry.

[@leopold7562]

It's a valid point, Flyboy. I had an Amazon delivery left in my paper recycling bin which was on the road outside my house and some scrote walked off with half of it.

[@albertbatfinder5240]

I presumed that you’d chain it to something. And I don’t think it needs wheels at all. If it fits outside, you’d leave it there. It’s still crap, though.

[@paulesterline5714]

I have a fridge in my garage, it has a freezer and of course the cold part. It would be simple to leave the door unlocked and they could stick it in. No problem, no charge.

[@ebonimom6964]

Ah yes. My childhood. Endless days of getting locked inside of the refrigerator by my older brother, and my mother arriving home just in time to get me out before the hypothermia set in.

[@ramsaybolton7464]

I’m pretty sure the dragons don’t even write anything on their notepad

[@beastmasterbg]

drawing doodles probably :D

[@2DReanimation]

Drawing different sized and shaped peni.

[@bananapeaches6370]

Nah games of hangman and noughts and crosses and they swap pads when they wait for a new business pitcher 😂

[@bigbuckbunny9043]

Jenny writes.. “I’m out”

[@gregorsamsa1364]

Definitely drawing dikks

[@AspieADog]

You know this is a classic Dragons' Den when Peter's hair is less grey and James Caan makes an appearance, though he doesn't really speak much at all...

[@MFXULTIMATESCALPER]

Adam Cronin rather James than Jenny 😂

[@-spudman2.054]

3:40 tbf still to this day the supermarkets will give you a time frame of a few hours and even then they've regularly been late lol, so I suppose it's handy if you have to go out but still I wouldn't subscribe for a box outside my house

[@fern1416]

In the T&C of all major supermarkets it states that somone over the age of 18 must be home to recieve the delivery. I have previously been out and left a note and they don't leave it

[@BenRangel]

9:58 - Duncan's best reaction to being told he was dead wrong 😂

[@FriendlyNeighbourhoodSpidey]

Lol

[@andrewleah1983]

The guy is a massive bellend. Thinks because he’s a successful business man he can belittle people.

[@BenjaminGoose]

@@andrewleah1983 He's right though, the patent is nonsense.

[@patrickdelaney3961]

"It's not like a wheelie bin at all", camera cuts to the most wheelie bin shot of the product 😅

[@Boshek2019]

“It does look like a wheelie bin” The camera then cut to it looking EXACTLY like a wheelie bin💀

[@TheVanderfulLife]

100% my siblings would've picked me up and put me in there...all part of growing up

[@MegaJakerobinson]

Never seen this bin anywhere. Take it that nearly 2 million went down the drain

[@jamieblack1789]

The company is now closed lol

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

well, what sort of malfunction does one need to have to even go ordering groceries online anyway?

[@Andrew-yl7lm]

@@trazyntheinfinite9895 well Ocado is one of the biggest companies in the FTSE 100...

[@Septimus_ii]

As of 30th June 2018, it looks like they still only had the ~£992,000 invested by the owners with very little activity over the last few years. Looks like the company technically hasn't been shut down yet, but it might as well be.

[@alecman95]

Jamie please learn how to read

[@rickjamesb.]

In 2022 here in Holland not only does every major store deliver at home in a pre-planned time frame, but there are about 4-5 'flash delivery' services who deliver in 10-15 minutes from the moment you order. These things would not have worked even with these developments because of their poor and huge design, it needed to be something smaller and mobile to even stand a chance of making SOME of the money back, let alone making profits smh. The largest retail stores here have recently partnered with the flash delivery services to have their groceries ordered instantly and delivered in minutes to their customers who want/need it, instead of them losing out on money to the flash delivery services.

[@joshuacomfort8059]

3:06 didn’t know a thermostat was a fancy micro chip

[@Pastafari4]

Amazon delivery: I'm about to end yhis man's whole career

[@khansahib7110]

If it wasn't for the old fella, Peter would have got in

[@leongargan6024]

@glyn hodges There were apparently multiple "other seriously interested investors", and they, collectively, weren't going to cost Stuart as much equity as Peter wanted.

[@bingola45]

He got his nose put out of joint by Bannatyne, so he cut it off to spite his face.

[@adamhuberman4387]

Is it not just a Refridgerator with a lock on it that you put outside?

[@Scoffslaphead72]

There definately is a problem with supermarket deliveries. To this day I would argue they have nowhere near enough delivery slots.

[@hamzaussene7107]

Wow guess Peter was right. 3 to 5 years later and pretty much all supermarkets offer delivery with time slots you can choose. An investment well avoided.

[@bannjaxx]

not ten minute time slots tho, not even close, its impossible, too many variables - traffic, weather, size of delivery at earlier stops, awkwardness of previous deliveries, stairs, you name it, no one can guarantee 10 minute windows

[@hamzaussene7107]

Absolutely. Imagine buying this then it becoming irrelevant.

[@FernandoGuerra1]

@@bannjaxx Here in Brazil we have Rappi Turbo, they delivery groceries in 10 min or less, always works, I have been using for quite some time now

[@positronicfeed]

"By that logic, you can lock somebody in the boot of your car" Except, unlike your shitbox, it's mandatory for car boots to be unlockable and openable from inside the boot.

[@johnvonhorn2942]

If that's true what a great point

[@ItsThatVogue]

Not back then

[@sexyhomeowner9345]

Would the average child know that? Or know how to unlock a boot from the inside? I doubt it.

[@tibsthefox]

Not in the UK

[@JacaboBlanco]

@@sexyhomeowner9345 that's not the point. The point is it's possible. The business who made the car has done all it can at that point. Then it is up to parents to educate

[@jackmathieson1903]

I'm surprised that didn't mention that anyone could probably break it or just take the entire thing.

[@goplanit]

4 years later, has anyone ever seen one of these?

[@kekistanihelpdesk8508]

Jenny didn't make it to the den this show. She opened her eyes in the morning and said 'im out'.