You Don't ACTUALLY Need Implosion Rounds On Mountaintop

[@DanDanReal]

Destiny players when it's time to farm for a 0,04% damage increase (it will be powercrept in two months)

[@camelnotllama]

No

[@scottbrayton9484]

Powercrept 🤓

[@DanDanReal]

@@scottbrayton9484 thank you, english is my second language

[@danielwilson3225]

🤣🤣🤣so true (i will be farming)

[@Trevoroxx]

Ya man this level of min maxing is ridiculous lol

[@UmbrasMercy]

Implosion rounds? I CANT EVEN FIND AUTOLOADING RECOMBONATION!

[@alexalonso5328]

400+ legend waves and still cant get it to drop...that includes 3 shiny MT 😢

[@letterv4198]

Overflow, impulse amplifier, and lead from gold are all very valid alternatives to autoloading

[@UmbrasMercy]

@MXG2809 Ive tried it with Overflow, however still prefer autoloading due to the fact that theres situations where i need it before the X10 or for procing bait and switch for example that i just prefer the consistency personally of knowing when i need that shot its 100% loaded.

[@woollerland]

Literally thinking the same thing. I've farmed so much this week and no luck :(

[@UmbrasMercy]

@@woollerland I feel you ive hit the 900+ mark of normal and still nothing and only 3 shinys to my name and not 1 good.

[@Tuck44]

This was the perfect explanation for something everybody, including me, was confused about. That flow chart was epic! Subbed.

[@grantfrancis1848]

Now this is certified gamer info

[@MSK-o1n]

Thank you for doing the math. Ive been tossing mountaintops in the vault and I found a hard launch, implosion, ALH, recombination, velocity mw in the pile

[@Delta-u5f]

Thank you so much for clarifying the spike grenade change. I’ve been confused since they mentioned the change and found countless conflicting opinions. Thank you tons

[@bull3t209]

I’d go for spikes just because it seems more futureproof. I know bungie likes re working obscure systems like this

[@Blanktester685]

why would they buff it again after nerfing it specifically cuz there was no reason to ever not use spike grenades?

[@arandomcomp2427]

Its probabale that damage value is decoupled from blast radius . If that happens spike will give you a damage boost but hardluch or implosion wont affect damage because they only affect blast radius. ​@Blanktester685

[@starlightrains]

@@Blanktester685That’s exactly what they did to titan bubble tbf. They buffed its damage to 35% to give people a reason to use it instead of just using well, then nerfed it back to 25% in season 16, making well the only valid support super in the game again. Bungie makes weird decisions like this sometimes. It’s completely possible that they do make it so that spike grenades are the only viable option someday, so it’s a solid idea to keep a good roll with them.

[@teslacoil4409]

This change is the rework

[@coomingnotgoing904]

Right, there has never been a reason to not use spike nades in pve

[@iAronn]

TLDR Destiny players focus on the 0.04% damage difference (this is why so many people are confused) instead of the multiple videos and explanations now showing how Hard launch is making almost a 5% up to a 12% difference in damage. I have so many replies when I told people to watch the video and all I got in response was "Its literally just a 0.1% damage difference it doesn't matter just use spike nades".

[@goose886]

I just focus on velocity for the the first two perks because i actually like landing my shots at long range. The miniscule amount you get from the others doesn't matter to me. Missing a shot is a 100% reduction in damage after all 😅

[@DemonicDragon6]

@goose886 I have a impulse amplifier frenzy roll and I'm loving it

[@goose886]

@@DemonicDragon6i want that roll! haven't gotten that roll yet, i do have the auto load/recomb that i mainly wanted but i have been trying to get some fun rolls like that. I love impulse amplifier. Extremely underrated perk.

[@blanked8243]

Important to add it’s because mt has a modifier to its impact, not explo damage, this happens

[@kreia187]

At this point, the slightly higher aoe of the hard launch + spike roll might as well be more valuable than the 28 damage difference.

[@juhaojanpaa]

Good point

[@whxyri7198]

tbh not really, you arent using mt to hit multiple ads instead 99.9% of the time its single target dmg

[@kaifa76]

Main usage of MT is dealing damage to a single stronger enemy

[@kreia187]

@@whxyri7198 Of course, it's just that those 28 damage are very likely to not ever make any noticeable difference whatsoever in however many years you play destiny from now on, and the increased blast radius probably won't either, so it's pointless to begin with.

[@MrMGILLY55]

@@kreia187yes I agree both are literally identical whichever u get on your god roll I personally prefer the extra single target

[@t3hpwninat0r]

hard launch always felt great for years and i didnt know why for sure until now. also high velocity rounds might help you hit more often so the difference in damage between hitting and missing is probably greater than the damage numbers going up. definitely feels better to not miss. impulse amplifier ftw.

[@indiegizmo775]

It’s me, I have Hard Launch/Implosion/ALH/Recom but with a blast radius MW.

[@XenolithZeus]

After watching this, I found a shiny version with hard launch, implosion rounds, auto loading holster and recombination in my vault

[@Raio_arma]

0,04% more damage is still 0.04% more damage

[@Proverb.]

Does this apply to heavy GLs also or only the mountaintop because of it's frame?

[@LlamaD2]

Only the mountaintop

[@derianyounan1353]

Mine has too much br. But recom bugs out and does the damage of the impact, blast radius and the blast radius mr as if it were a pulse. Any clues to why this happened?

[@Tusk-ruk]

Thanks for the education. Man how many HL/IR have I destroyed this week chasing the "god roll" QL/SG ?... 🤦‍♂️

[@CrunchyMaggots]

You should flip the order of Implosion Rounds and Spike Grenades on that flowchart. You want to exit the chart at the best damage option. ie: Do you have Implosion Rounds? Yes? 100% Optimal. If No, do you have Spike? Yes? 99.96% Optimal.

[@Qouth]

Does this apply only to Mountaintop or does it work for Heavy GLs aswell?

[@LlamaD2]

Only Mountaintop

[@FrogsRghey]

Would the hard launch/spike nades interaction apply to heavy launchers as well?

[@thegregster3808]

Yes it is what you want on dps heavy gls if you’re looking to max your damage

[@vantablack949]

Not really a mag increase can be better with envious alot of the time

[@LlamaD2]

Yes, but again the actual increase in damage you get from lowering your blast radius by 5 points is tiny.

[@imnotchikao6317]

But Llama, that 28 dmg difference is the difference between me leaving that raid boss with a sliver of health and wiping vs. trading with the boss and wiping 😂 Thanks for the info.

[@breadman86]

Got a Brave to drop with Impulse/ALH + Rampage/Reconstruction, and spike grenades and a reload MW… but no hard launch. RIP. I’ll still probably keep it and consider myself done farming unless another happens to drop tho, probably “good enough”

[@Knife.105]

Thx man iv been farming for spike gerandes although I have hard launch and implosion rounds Didn’t know I had what is actually better

[@hmai18]

What's the delta from optimal damage if you have hard launch + implosion/spike but it came shiny blast radius MW?

[@zawarudo544]

One hard launch among dozens of drops, feels good man

[@jshua1883]

Is smart drift control still a viable choice if there isn’t hard launch available? With implosion rounds it still brings the blast radius down to 90.

[@LlamaD2]

At that point it doesn't matter really

[@JigglePhysics513]

hey can u by chance entertain this dmg testing question because im too lazy to, what is the ideal barrel and magazine for rockets n heavy GLs since the BR stat affects dmg on those as well is it better to have mini frags for more ammo with envious which also decreases BR or is it better to have implosion on heavy gls basically whats the best combination for rockets and heavy gls when it comes to things like impact casing which is comparable to spike nades but for rockets vs implosion vs mini frags vs proxy nades which all decrease BR just by varying amounts

[@codedvortex8522]

So how much worse is the blast radius masterwork if every other perk is perfect, hard launch and implosion

[@smoxch5444]

How does hard launch / mini frags compare to quick launch / spikes on edge transit?

[@ImmaculateOtter]

Does the damage calculations of special GLs also apply to heavy GLs and rockets?

[@s1lentcalib3r]

So why is my blast radius at 88 instead if 85? wierd i have Hard launch implosion and spike ALH recombination with handling MW

[@jamesl9174]

LLAMA this is some serious number crunching. would you consider doing a comparison of kinetic weapons for swap rotations? ex: Mountaintop (vorpal vs recomb), Witherhoard, Izzy?

[@LlamaD2]

I'll consider!

[@jamesl9174]

@@LlamaD2 keep doing what youre doing the community thinks you rule!

[@Dub5h07HD]

I got an hard launch/alh/recomb, but with high velocity/sticky. Is the mag perks useless then?

[@drstrange2822]

Does anyone know if Edge Transit also needs Hard Launch? Does lower Blast Radius = more DMG also count for heavy GLs?

[@HisokaOphion]

How much does a Blast Radius masterwork mess up the values on the flow chart. Got my ideal foil (HL + Implosion, Overflow & Recom, but with a BR Master work). I MUST know how much miniscule difference it makes!!!!

[@derianyounan1353]

Not sure mine has both maxed out br and a br mw but still hits hard and well.

[@roryvanberkel4139]

Best in slot perks: Launch: Hard launch (always) Ammo: Spike nades OR Implosion

[@vibe5912]

I have a mt that has (hard launch, implosion rounds ALH and recomb) but it has a blast radius masterwork. I was wondering if i masterwork it will it become worse or should it keep it not masterworked. any advice is welcome

[@rpotts]

Unfortunate. If you max out the masterwork your damage will go down by ~7.25%.

[@blebreton06]

I never knew that dmg stat by gl’s 🤯 imagine all these years and there are still new things I learn

[@amaurylaunay]

The first roll I got with Recombination also had Hard Launch and Spike Grenades =D

[@callumscovell]

I have one with Hard Launch, Spike/Implosion, ALH, and Recomb. But it has Blast MW, is that bad or is it worth farming for another?

[@thomlionsdale7590]

Yeh, you’ll definitely need another one.

[@therealjp3177]

Does this work the same with heavy GLs? Asking for best PVP one shot tips

[@MoritzHumer-tx7fl]

I don't think it's specific to mountaintop! When they nefered spikes from 50% -> 12.5%, they buffed impact damage by 10% and detonation damage by 5% to, overall, not nerfe gls. Now, before that change, blastradius would not affect total damage, but only the split. After this change, lower blast radius is more favourable because it received the larger buff. In other words, the blastradius stat now DOES affect your total damage. Please let me know if there is a flaw in this logic.

[@SasukeUchiha-vb2vy]

Does this interaction exist on the Wilderflight?

[@savingsoulsociety]

spikes because the damage is in every case, the exact same except with spikes you keep 10 blast radius making it that much better for ad clear, self launch and aoe.

[@HaidarAli-27]

what masterwork should u go for with a hard launch + implosion or a hard launch + spike. Im thinking reload masterwork but idk

[@MrMGILLY55]

Handling masterwork is the best, paired with implosion you retain 100 velocity. I used one with reload masterwork but finally got a handling one today.

[@MrAhds]

that missing blast radius will probably be more noticeable than the actual damage

[@chillhour6155]

Tldr: anything with hard launch is fine

[@thomlionsdale7590]

Honestly I’d take spike or implosion without hard launch. I have a alh/recom at 88.7% and I’m going for another one.

[@INC-]

What would you recommend as the god roll for said mountaintop? Few people have different ideas and cant quite get a concrete answer

[@rithvikmuthyalapati9754]

You would definitely want hard launch and recombination on your mountaintop

[@north9372]

How does this affect Edge transit and Indebted kindness? Same thing? What is optimal 1st and 2nd column picks?

[@SlongestKongest]

Edge transit does 3% ish more with spike The same as impact casing It doesn't matter what mag perk you get Only the ones that buff mag size are good imo as they = less reloading

[@Lamprarian]

.... What if I did get hard launch/implosion.... And a Blast Radius MW? T_T

[@medicfdumbo]

If you have a masterwork with blast radius is that bad?

[@chrisborges7344]

Yes

[@LlamaD2]

Yes

[@kaifa76]

Ler me flex it. For the first time in 10 years I got the god roll on first day. Hard launch, both spike and implosive, auto loading, recombination . Handling MW. My whole life has finally a meaning.

[@rogerhuston8287]

I have implosion and not hard launch and that's fine for me. 4 out 5 is good enough.

[@lammy2140]

Same here, I must have missed the part where hard launch is a necessity?? I don't understand why that is

[@LukeeBoy09]

I managed to get a shiny with autoloading frenzy with spike+implosion but it doesn’t have hard launch unfortunately

[@Honed-]

so what im getting at is you want hard launch and then spike or implostion in the second. THE PROBLEM IS I CANT GET HARD LAUNCH TO DROP ON ANYTHING, AND THEN WHEN I FINALLY DO I GET A BLAST RADIAUS MW I MEAN FFS !!!

[@EdgeBot_7131]

I got one with hard launch, implosion, auto loading, and recombination. Unfortunately, it's blast radios masterwork and limited edition.

[@heartofquartz4909]

what about velocity, I thought velocity contributed to direct impact damage?

[@malvinuy4577]

what master work is best for it then?

[@rpotts]

handling assuming you're using an auto loading holster. Reload is also good if you're not using ALH.

[@LlamaD2]

Velocity or Handling it’s personal preference

[@anthony87fiorillo]

What does impulse amplifier add to this data? Curious. Not autoloading obviously but it feels really good on the mountaintop.

[@scalarmotion]

No effect on blast radius, so it doesn't affect damage

[@cjp8155]

I've got hard launch, implosion rounds/spike, auto-loading, recombination, and velocity masterwork. I use spike because with implosion rounds the masterwork becomes completely useless.

[@brennancurrier806]

I have an implosion and spike, auto and recombination but no hard launch. Stopped farming MT for a while to farm midnight for a while since I’ve been farming MT since reset.

[@Nolexyn]

How much does a hard launch implosion get punched by a blast radius masterwork

[@_Super_Dad_]

Thanks for that now.... wasn't Shure whats going on. . now we know:) Thank You !

[@abusedpoptart7511]

It's super funny to see these videos pop up when my shiny Mountaintop has every one of these perks with auto + recomb

[@beepboop2803]

I got hard launch spike nades on a decent shiny but it has a blast radius master work 😢

[@Unrated.]

Can you explain why hard launch + impolosion + blast MW is bad?

[@LlamaD2]

The blast radius will decrease your overall damage per shot because of how the damage is tuned specifically for mountaintop. For mountaintop, the lower your blast radius the higher your damage.

[@Unrated.]

@@LlamaD2 dang I got a hard launch /implosion / auto / recomb roll but it has a blast radius MW

[@randyrandelson8879]

Really good video, thanks for your work.

[@nathancox2349]

Just got a roll with spike/hard launch with ambitious/frenzy. I nutted. It was a shiny but the other perks were quickdraw rampage so eh.

[@Gizzy2337]

Just when i got my mountaintop after 60 hours of grinding

[@nechrochronicon]

the gun has been out for a little over 72 hours get some fucking sleep dude you and your PC are fried

[@Gizzy2337]

@@nechrochronicon thanks for worrying about me but i can guarantee you that i'm ok :)

[@althechicken9597]

That's a gambling addiction, my guy. This game is designed to do that. Take a step back for a bit, homie.

[@marceletta]

​@@althechicken9597 that's not an addiction. It's dedication.

[@CD23_06]

@@althechicken9597hey so long as I stick to destiny and don’t start gambling money then I’ll take it. Getting it all out of my system.

[@tenkeii5056]

Hey guys, I just thought I would let you know that unless you are doing a day 1 raid or speedrun, you do not need anything past a 2/5 (2 main perks). Game knowledge is more important than weapon rolls

[@FishAndKid]

I got a shiny Mtop with hard launch, implosion round, Lead from gold, Frenzy/rampage...... and Blast radius MW which is fully upgraded from the drop

[@adamstaples9158]

I think I will be living as a 96%’er with my auto recombination roll that only had implosion rounds (but no blast radius mw thankfully). Unfortunately my other auto recombination roll is shiny but max blast radius with no spike or implosion rounds 😭

[@zekkikun528]

But, Llama sir, what if I have Hard Launch AND Spike AND Implosion on my roll!?

[@LlamaD2]

You’re goated

[@damazsta]

What are the best perks?

[@malcolmpatchett7496]

Got a shiny with Hard Launch, Spike/Implosion, Ambitious, Recombination... and a pre-masterwork in blast radius. The lowest I can get my BL is now 95 lol

[@mrdonates7320]

And here i'm with hard launch and implision rounds with a blast radius mw...fuck me i guess.

[@jfkelly0]

I got hard launch with spike and implosion, auto loading and recbination . Guess what masterwork i got already on level 2 😢

[@Surge44]

i cant even get the rolls i want in the first case

[@Narfwak]

my holofoil has hard launch/quick launch, sticky/spike, lead from gold/ALH, vorpal/recombination and a handling MW. yeah I'm not gonna try to get better than that just for a couple of points of damage lmao

[@rpotts]

the chance of you improving that roll overall is so astronomically low. If they ever "fix" this quirk of mountaintop then you'll have the quick launch swap, which is the best barrel actually stats wise. Spike is the safer pick, if they do fix this then Implosion will go back to being one of the worst perks, ALH + Recomb is my preferred roll but you also have LFG which may have niche use. Technically I'd probably prefer Frenzy instead of Vorpal as the swap but that would be one of the only ways you could improve that roll. The chance of getting that, or getting everything you have and also having Implosion is so miniscule that it may as well not exist. I envy your roll.

[@Narfwak]

honestly I don't think there's anything to "fix" about implosion on MT. new MT has an intrinsic bonus to impact damage similar to what spike does, that's why implosion makes it do more damage. it's weird, but it's not a secret. everyone just forgot they told us that. and yeah, I almost shit myself when I saw this thing drop. probably means I won't get a cool edge transit though since I've used up my RNG for the rest of the year...

[@rpotts]

Right, I don't think it's necessarily in need of a change, but if they did I wouldn't be that surprised. @@Narfwak

[@Cabbage22927]

I’m just sticking to spike.

[@rehmsmeyer]

I might like this GL a bit more if it was easier to land the shots. I miss so many shots that I cannot believe don't miss.

[@sofabored2150]

I'm happy I got a decent shiny before it was gone.

[@Ämyr2006]

I got hard launch with impolsion and BR masterwork 💀😭

[@Cobraplayer26]

I got one with hard launch with both spike and implosion rounds lol

[@x.I.N.K.x]

Its always these lil bumps in stats that i dont get why people obsess over. Whatever dmg you think youre missing out on, youre not. Mountain top , just with the micro missile perk being an intrinstic , makes the weapon top tier regardless. Especilaly for pve.

[@JustDj317]

Theyreboh the same, just treat it as having 2 round options instead of 1

[@paul4890]

Im a simple man. I just need an overflow recomb roll. To hell with the barrel, mag, n masterwork. 2/5 aint bad lol

[@Fabbbio1001]

I think at this point Bungie should just fix this "bug" and get done with it

[@unclesetsu]

shiett.... thank god my auto recom have hard launch, both spike and implosion. i'm good for the one shot setup. have to farm the impulse frenzy roll again tho. cause no hard launch

[@Stereo-hb2lo]

welp, guess im grinding for mountaintop again

[@ExpertRam]

Surely this has to be a bug right 😭? No way bungie intended for spikes to make you do less total damage

[@imajarebear]

quick launch adds handling on a weapon that you likely want to swap to, hit a target, and swap away from. quick launch + spike maintains good damage AND great handling

[@christianwaters1114]

This Grenade launcher makes 0 F*ING SENSE. I never had Mountain Top in Forsaken and was really excited to try it out and every single on I've gotten is trash! No Hard Launch with Spike or Implosion. No Auto Loading, Recombination, or Vorpal Weapon. The best I got is Lead from Gold and Frenzy!

[@jakethestatefarmott6329]

I grinded for a good 3 and half hours for a spike, auto, recom role. And still have been best I got was implosion, auto, recomb. Now I'm glad I have the official good God role

[@nechrochronicon]

there are SO many "god rolls" I've seen for mountaintop just get what you like and call it a day

[@TheBeast23444]

No shiny? 👀

[@knayvik]

@@TheBeast23444 stop bro i farmed for like 15 hours and just got one with auto recomb

[@TheBeast23444]

@@knayvik im messing, ive only gotten 1 random rolled golden skin scence brave dropped

[@alfredoj9791]

spike grenades on this weapon is 7% more damage.. u either get it or u dont..

[@CPWS_The_Stingray]

But my handling from quick launch 😢

[@Spartan-sz7km]

Tl;dr implosion or spike

[@ChosenParanoia]

thx!

[@DerGenie7]

oh apparently i clicked on this the minute it dropped

[@crittical_7]

subscribed!

[@LlamaD2]

Thank you!