You Don't Know How Predators Work (Ben 10 Discussion)

#ben10 #discussion #crabdozer #heatblast #pyronite #heatblastben10 #predators #prey #evolution #biology #controversial
Can't wait to see how many people try to roast me in the comments over this video. If anyone can actually come up with some sound arguments against the ideas and facts I proposed, please don't hesitate to comment them below! I'd love to hear other sides of this conversation, as long as they aren't just "U wrong lol"
COMMUNITY DISCORD SERVER: / discord
LINK TO MY PATREON: patreon.com/KirigiriKirin
BUSINESS EMAIL: [e-mail]

[@itsnotpaul8548]

I always assumed the creatures in the nemetrix were not really specialized predators for one species but rather the apex predator of the food web from where that specific alien lives

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

I mean modern human would kick Dinofelis but

[@Watcher1134]

Upchuck, Nanomech, Terraspin. Upgrade(unless you include Malware). Arctiguana, Whampirre and Alien X have no NATURAL predators but they "can" still be Yeeted by what the Nemetrix spits out. There is also another unseen yet technically official predator found in promotinal material called the Tenticlaws (theorised to be a predator of Spitter)

[@Recon-601]

​@@Watcher1134if we have what's essentially living planets in Ben 10 maybe Whampires get hunted by living suns XD

[@thedelordhimselfgokublack]

@@Recon-601Whampire is the apex predator in Anur Transyl

[@stock_movie1875]

​@@Watcher1134alien x does have a predator. Osmosians. That's why they left the universe

[@flysoup3607]

9:28 It's confirmed in the series that he went for the 10 strongest predators in the universe, I thought. That'd explain why he got those two DNA samples. Also, the crabdozers orbit around Pyros before crashing down to feed. Its not crazy to imagine they could drift off to other planets.

[@theamazingspooderman2697]

yeah that Crabdozer thing is wild lol

[@stock_movie1875]

That's only proving the point further. If they orbit a planet and then crash down to feed them that's the only reason they're fire proof. Ablative heating. Other than that they would be a better predator for necrofrigians because they can survive in space.

[@ARandomEliatrope]

I dunno how they missed some pretty simple lore about Crabdozers, it's literally one of the first things you read on the wiki. Purposefully ignored? I doubt it, but it's kind of silly.

[@stock_movie1875]

@@ARandomEliatrope it's only ever mentioned in the wiki and the writers never confirmed it

[@Mystery-pd6jc]

@@joel1245 Right, but based off what's officially shown in the show it seems unlikely that Crabdozer would be Heatblast's predator, which is what the video is about. Stuff from the wiki isn't official.

[@djt08031996]

I feel like Kaiber started with predators adapted to Ben's favored forms and then got some utility forms to round out the active list

[@KirigiriKirin]

Ooh I love that idea! That's super creative!

[@leonardoacosta4577]

Didn't the reboot show a spider like predator for fouramrs, and hugemongosaur "predator" was a multy limb rex that shoot weds? Aslo with the terrorrantula, wasn't the plot of a hole episode how phil after turning in that hybrid affected the omnitrix into turning ben into only electric aliens?

[@adamsoulking]

Going at the top of my head here so sorry if I get anything wrong but, I'm pretty sure in the plot of ball weevils predator being Phil as the subject of the nemetrix, didn't the omnitrix bug and ONLY turn Ben into electric aliens or something? Prey would probably evolve some sort of defense mechanism and maybe the omnitrix chose it for that.

[@adamsoulking]

@KirigiriKirin

[@madladdie7069]

@@leonardoacosta4577 could be something unique to Terrorranchulas. If it's a Nemetrix thing then that leans into this video's take of the predators incidentally being suited against specific species.

[@snivyland2878]

I think a little fact that helps even further is that invasive species are such successful predators due to native animals not having adaptations for them, just like pyronites and crabdozer Also seeing a spec evo fan being active in the ben10 community is such a refreshing thing

[@KirigiriKirin]

Spec evo is a brilliant little sub-genre of media, and I'm glad I'm able to bring a Ben 10 twist to it!

[@batmanguy9997]

pineapple

[@azazelblackfire816]

Uhhh.... an invasive species doesn't instantly mean predator... It's simply something that doesn't belong (is foreign) to a hypothetical ecosystem.

[@snivyland2878]

@@azazelblackfire816 that is true and something I realized I worded badly I mostly mean just out compete

[@theend-nz6vs]

Invasive species would either thrive in another area due to them not having a natural predator or would die out due to the unsuitable environment

[@johnark4723]

Just because an alien can counter another, doesn't mean they were the intended prey, especially since all the aliens you mentioned come from different worlds where there would be no way for natural selection to take them into account. My theory is that he just took extremely strong apex predators. It's logical to think that Ben's strongest aliens would need an even stronger predator to hunt them. The aliens that Ben constantly use must be extremely powerful in some aspect because why else would he continue to choose them instead of the thousands of others he has.

[@joelconolly5574]

I usually think that most of these predators are just specialised in specific areas that it should be compatible with other aliens. Crabdozer is pretty much a rhino with 4 legs and a strong body so it could just plow through most aliens like even XLR8 and Fasttrack since they can't budge him. Plus it's a volcanic species so it's heat resistance and could probably walk in lava. Kyber is probably just hunting interesting and strong species that's supposed to counter Ben's original 10, but have moved on since.

[@KirigiriKirin]

Interesting idea!

[@theamazingspooderman2697]

Crabdozer is seen orbiting it's planet too so he is immune to freezing and radiation, can also survive in limited oxygen etc etc.

[@SuperGamefreak18]

I'd add to that saying probably not designed for just his oringal 10 but the main aliens he is known for using, basically counter any alien he used alot before he got the ultramatrix, especially his heavy hitters from his alien force lineup alongside some useful situational aliens incase he doesnt have enough, that first fight was the test to see if his selected choices worked, which it techically did.

[@Ornyl]

​@@theamazingspooderman2697what if it lives in swarm planet around the volacanic area, is omnivorous and mainly feeds on what ever it gets.. Swampfire being a common diet food for it.

[@matthewletexier]

Rhinos have 4 legs...

[@zerochaotics1135]

I'm pretty sure when it comes to the hypnoticks, it's actually stated in the show that they're virtually extinct as they exclusively hunt necrophrigians. Just thought I'd put that out there.

[@Dr0]

My theory is that Khyber was strategic and tried to optimize for the smallest number of predators that could be useful against the greatest number of aliens, and maybe he did try to predict which aliens Ben was more likely to use based on his fighting tendencies. Also, the selection might have to do with the mind game; trying to seem as if he had a predator for every alien when that wasn’t the case, but it didn’t matter as long as Ben thought it was true. I also imagine Khyber didn’t hunt all the predators to get their samples but at least he did with most while for some like Crabdozer he might have bought one from the black market or something and as the hunter he is he still played with it, by hunting it in a controlled setting.

[@twinodoom]

I imagine Khyber hunted all of them himself just for the sport.

[@Kurotama11]

Wasn’t there also an episode that explained the Nemetrix was giving off some kind of feedback that was effecting the omnitrix and basically making the randomizer give Ben prey appropriate aliens?

[@nihit6660]

That still doesn't really matter. It could just mean that the nemetrix was just transforming into the most appropriate alien to counter ben

[@Kurotama11]

@@nihit6660 I was just providing something to add on to his overall point that the predators aren’t alien specific and more “general archetypes” like Ben’s aliens tend to be

[@bacproduction7186]

If I remember correctly that crab dude hired Kyber not to collect specific predators, but simply strong predators. And also it is more efficient than travel over 10k worlds for a single DNA, and he might hunt some of them on a same planet. He's a professional hunter after all, so I guess that makes sense that he collected DNA of species that he thought would be enough to defeat multiple aliens with similar powers.

[@yamato9753]

Honestly, the Idea of Khyber just collecting Species because it i.e. counters X Ability sounds pragmatic but badass. Like, imagine he knew what the Predator of Pyronites was but went "why tf should I travel all the way to Pyros if I can instead take the more powerful krabdozer?" I could also imagine he would've taken a vladad (don't know how to spell it) sample, but didn't because they were literally thought to be extinct. Seeing a Villain Whampire would've been chilling af

[@KirigiriKirin]

Would've loved to see that! Also, love the Yamato rep!

[@yamato9753]

@@KirigiriKirin thanks! That evil Vladad would probably been totally instinctive and less like the other ones we saw. This is due to the Nemetrix usage causes... "Complicated" psychological issues when used by beings that have Sentience on a Level similar to humans. It essentially chops your intellect down but doesn't restore it upon transforming back. I think thats the only reason the Predators weren't already in the Omnitrix (If we go with the "genetic ark noah" reason for Asmuth building the Omnitrix, which was always my favorite canon).

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

@@yamato9753All sapience are sentient. But not all sentient are sapience

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

I think it's am especially good explanation for slamworm since it'd be pretty crazy for Khyber to find his way to the andromeda Galaxy for armadrillo an alien he'd never know ben would get. When it would be perfect for most burrowing aliens, armored aliens, and a pretty good substitute for spidermonkeys predator (rootshark)

[@theamazingspooderman2697]

yeah Vladats were not only extinct but u can't even enter the planet they used to live on

[@douglysium9770]

8:27 this is something I've always wondered about. I mean one of the limitations of the nemetrix is that apparently the species in it lack the same level of sentience as those in the Omnitrix but it's highly improbably that literally every predator has animalistic levels of sentience, especially when according to a word of god dolphin dna is in the Omnitrix. I don't see why you couldn't make a Nemetrix with aliens like Whampire or something. idk you might even be able to make a pair with one for animals like Zed and another for someone more strategic like Khyber. I will partially defend Kuro about the Krabdoze thing because I could totally see at least one rich asshole in space getting too big for their britches or keeping in a reserve or something for someone to hunt. Considering we saw animals as dangerous as the Grakiflint (idk how to spell it) being shipped and almost escaping Duck Danger or whatever his name was someone transporting an extremely dangerous alien only for it to break lose and (in the case of Krabdozer) maybe fall to the planet's surface is not impossible. Also, Krabdozer spend most of their time in orbit before they fall onto the planet and get launched back up later by volcanoes and stuff. It's totally possible that Krabdozer is native to several different worlds at the same time. This wouldn't be the first time this has happened in Ben 10 and especially considering where Krabdozer hangs out the idea that some might fly out of orbit and either die in space or fall onto a nearby planet ages ago and to have sense adapted. I think this still proves your point that Krabdozer doesn't ONLY eat pyronites but I think there are probably a lot of explanations for how an alien like Krabdozer got there.

[@KirigiriKirin]

Thank you for this comment! I love the ideas you presented for Crabdozer's origins in the second paragraph!

[@kennethsatria6607]

I think the logical conclusion is that Khyber and Psychobos simply chose predators that arent sentient so they can match the host of the nemetrix (forgot her name) that isnt a sapient species, and be more easily controlled by them and have the proper instincts to hunt Ben's aliens. Obviously sapient predators are a thing but non sapience is not a rare trait either especially for predators who are adapted to hunt to live, humans for example dont anymore.

[@oceanman2398]

​@@kennethsatria6607 if you're saying they choose the alien samples because the host is a dog, then how does it connect from the thing about phil being the previous user of the nemetrix

[@RaichuWasCancelled]

@@oceanman2398well wasnt that just an experiment?

[@ikeking6797]

I think the reason is likely that since most of the species are evolved enough to have civilization, there are less sapient predators around in general, since that’s probably frown upon by intergalactic law. They just moved on to eating other things

[@jakebailey5834]

The Omnitrix actually has over 1 Million DNA Samples but I understand why you could forget since Ben when he is older calls himself Ben 10.000 Have a great day.

[@wingedbluj1674]

I think Khyber simply picked a selection of generalized predators with a few specialized ones.

[@matti.8465]

Many aliens in the Omnitrix, including Heatblast, probably don't have specific predators at all. Kaiber was probably just hired to collect the deadliest and most versatile predators in the universe based on Ben's known abilities. He knows which predator to use because he chose beings that can counter most TYPES of aliens.

[@stupertim4894]

You can probably also assume that ben has access to ever alien in the nemetrix, there's probably a failsafe that prevents ben from using them due to the effect it would have on his mind.

[@Rose-yx6jq]

9:49 actually as we are explicitly told in the episode The war of the worlds part 1 the season finale of the Alien Force season 2 we were told that there are over 1,000,000 DNA samples in the Omnitrix database. Ben 10000 is simply a name, it is not a reference to how many transformations he has.

[@CrispyCousy]

I was really confused on how he got that part wrong multiple times... It's one of the best known facts of the series for any fan and he's already put so much thought into this whole video

[@AFXffs772]

a few corrections Mucilator doesn’t exclusively hunt Orthopterrans, it literally just sits still until things run into it’s slime, it’s just really good at hunting Orthopterrans Crabdozer’s orbit Pyros (like Galileans) and only drop down to the planet to feed, they actually are specifically designed to hunt Pyronites as their saliva is a really good fire suppressant, they also had a habit of being dragged onto other planets while orbiting Omnivoracious was actually very effective, they were intelligent to the point the Galvans couldn’t outwit them, they went extinct because of an extreme climate change on Galvan Prime Vicetopus also have very rubbery skin which helps against Cerebrocrustaceans electricity Terroranchula wasn’t grabbed specifically for any one alien, it was more of a test drive thing to see how a Sapient creature like Phil could handle being turned into a mindless predator

[@vicentefengzhong]

I would like to think that the Crabdozer is actually a general pretador that preys on several other species in the system pyros is part of, which would make sense considering that those beasts can fricking fly of the atmosphere of a planet like nothing, but we just associate them to Heatblast specifically because his planet is part of the system where these things live.

[@GeorgeDCowley]

And he's the only one Ben has.

[@gregf8918]

I liked the idea of them using non-sentient DNA and I like to believed that Kiba chose only Apex predator that could be used in a verity of ways. Thanks for vindicating me. My friends thought I was crazy when I suggested this.

[@lunarguardian5523]

Great analysis. While it was said that Khyber's main reason to utilize these specific 10 predatory aliens was because they were the fiercest of them all, but i guess it was also to counter ben's fighting style effectively. Ben is a hit first, ask questions later type of guy and thus he generally prefers direct combat and his alien choices reflect on that preferance. Secondly, i do agree that while these nemetrix aliens are said to be direct predators of the said species, it doesn't mean they can't hunt other beings with similar abilities. For example, in the 15th episode of Omniverse "Malefactor" Grandpa Max said that Psycholeopterrans, which are Hypnotick's species, prefer hunting creatures that can also go intangible, which also include species such as Ectonurites (Ghostfreak) and Amperis(Ampfibian), but they just prefer Necrofriggians because they are easier to hunt compared to Ectonurites and Amperis, since Ectonurites can inhibit other beings' bodies to escape or rotate their eyes around their body to avoid being hypnotized and amperis can become pure energy and hide within electrical machineries. But Necrofriggians actually has no other way of defense against Psycholeopterrans since their main line of defense is their intangibility, which is useless against Hypnotick since they can also become intangible. Or same thing with Crabdozer. They can easily hunt any being with fire based abilities but they just find Pyronites to be the easiest prey to hunt since they have no other way of defense against them, whereas a Methanosian would be able to use their chlorokinesis to bind or incapacitate the crabdozer. This doesn't mean crabdozer wouldnt be able to hunt a methanosian, but they just prefer to hunt creatures that will give the least amount of difficulty.

[@TheWizardDudeguy]

I aint reading allat Shorten it

[@lunarguardian5523]

@@TheWizardDudeguy Basically, the specific predators within the nemetrix can also hunt other beings with similar powers, but they just prefer hunting certain species compared to others, Like Hypnotick for Big Chill, Mucillator for Crashhopper etc.

[@TheWizardDudeguy]

@@lunarguardian5523 I didn't actually noticed your reply, and by that, I am quite obliged to now reply. And I must say, thanks for that.

[@lunarguardian5523]

@@TheWizardDudeguy Uhhh, you're welcome?

[@dominus2184]

I like Ur analysis, in our world too. Predators go after the weakest prey animal to hunt, they offer least resistance.

[@edwardrizer8505]

I do think some of the Nemetrix predators are 1 to 1 with Ben’s aliens such as Tyrannopede, Hypnotic and Omnivoracious, and others like the Crabdozer were picked due to traits and ability’s.

[@gaidencastro9706]

I thought that the Crabdozer was an invasive species, similarly to how cats and dogs can wreak havoc on an island despite being foreign to it

[@creativeprovocateur001]

Tyrannopedes probably do make for better direct predators of vexasaurians, I mean the terrain was the issue in their initial fight. We clearly see humungosaur has trouble lifting it on top of that even though he can lift and flip him it doesn't do much damage to it and I don't think weapons would either as they seem to have a very durable exoskeleton. One thing that's pointed out is that they also prey on astrodactyl's species and in my opinion I think that's what they typically use their webs for. Snagging them out of the sky using it essentially like a steel cable that's to durable for their energy burst to break. We also can't forget that terroranchula is effective against leppidopterrans seeing that it absolutely cooked stinkfly😂 but as for Khyber collecting specific species he definitely didn't. It's actually pointed out he picked the ones that were considered to be the most dangerous.

[@thedelordhimselfgokublack]

The nemetrix also runs an interference that usually makes the omnitrix only transform into aliens that have predators and aliens weaker than those aliens. Think of how anytime he is near the nemetrix. The strongest alien he can turn into is hummongasaur. Despite having Way Big, Atomix, NRG, Chromastone, Alien X, Atomix. Most characters with intangibility usually use density shifting like big chill. Ghost freak uses spatial shifting like all ghosts which is how they are also able to teleport and possess the living

[@sayansaha155]

Getting recognised by Ink Tank is like an achievement ngl...almost like wearing a badge that makes you an elite.

[@KirigiriKirin]

Fr!!

[@Michael-vw7pc]

but in the show didn’t they specifically state that they are natural predators, he says the name then says what it’s the natural predator of. i’m not trying to hate btw, but i just don’t think they would put that in the show so people can make their own theories

[@KirigiriKirin]

Thank you for the commment! Don't worry, no offence taken! Even if they did state that, it still doesn't explain the Terroranchula and Mucilator being in the Nemetrix. Regardless, that's a plot hole

[@Michael-vw7pc]

@@KirigiriKirin thank you for not taking offence 🙏. and yeah i do agree that it is a plot whole

[@omegawilliam95s36]

I think it was said in the lore that Khyber spent about five years studying Ben while updating the Nemetrix, so he probably didn't have any better ones the first time he fought Ben.

[@PirvateerKurei]

I also think the name "Nemetrix" is to foil the Omnitrix and most of the aliens. That's pretty awesome considering how much life is in the Ben 10 Omniverse

[@christopherwebster6354]

For how the Crabdozer was found on that planet that clearly wasn't Pyros, I think it just sort of got there on its own. I know that sounds stupid and rediculous, but according to word of god, Crabdozers don't actually live _on_ Pyros. They orbit it like asterodes before crashing down on it to feed on Pyronites and then ride solar flares back into orbit. Also, according to DJW, that Crabdozer was in a game preserve. Also, I disagree with the idea that Mucilator would be effective against Ben's other speed aliens for one simple reason: What does it do if Ben's running _away_ from it? Crashhopper is suseptable to the gel sacks because he can't change his trajectory mid-jump. XLR8 and Fasttrack on the other hand can stop and change course almost on a dime.

[@kenblazewargame4707]

From the way you explained it it make me glad i remembered the side theory i had about the nematix that he selected the most Compatible Predators for as many aliens in the ommitrix that he had or doc Psychobos(greatly miss spelled)knew of it's why he had such a limited pool because instead of going for the eveny pretator of alien in the ommitrix they would only need to collect a smaller amount and use those against ben

[@KirigiriKirin]

I like that a lot! "Minimal effort, maximum effectiveness"-type approach, yeah?

[@kenblazewargame4707]

​@KirigiriKirin definitely because umm hello, WHO APART FROM ASMITH WOULD KNOW HOW MANY ALIEN ARE IN THAT THING

[@kenblazewargame4707]

And if he did that, it would allow for him to save space for other pretators for any new aliens he would find out of(both of being in the ommitrix and the actual universe hello infinity)

[@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8]

@@KirigiriKirinthe irony is that bens omnitrix does not follow this and is kind of bloated with aliens with overlapping functions, some of which are just worse than others

[@YeetSpace]

I always felt like the nematrix essentially worked like this: If someone were to use the nematrix to find something considerably close to a predator for a human, it would most likely just turn it into a polar bear or something. Not explicitly stated to be our predators as a regular kind of thing, but it is well known they are fully capable and do kill people. So essentially it's something that's native to the planets of the alien in the specific fight, but it's not technically actually the exclusive predator to that alien, just something from the same planet with the capabilities of murder

[@jaybookout121]

I like that, but I think the point was more explicitly about countering specific aliens. Problem is, natural ecosystems don't really work like that multiple species are preyed on by multiple other species. But like. A human predator could be like a hyena or big cat or bear or something.

[@YeetSpace]

@@jaybookout121 Oh yeah most definitely, especially given the context that when psychobos got a hold of the omnitrix's current DNA, I'm pretty sure it was in the past before the Omnitrix itself could remotely store the DNA, because at that point it was all still on Primus, meaning what was in the omnitrix was the few things they knew to counter.

[@YeetSpace]

And it just so happens to be that the ones they had counters for were the ones that covered the most bases, meaning up until Ben started getting wildly powerful new aliens, just the sheer power behind the creatures they had obtained, not even the specific effort of them being predators to specific aliens, just an overall "predation by proxy of being a fuck ton more powerful than you" situation as it were

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

Human used to have a speciallised predator. Look up Dinofelis. WHat happen? We reached ultimate form

[@donnalugtu896]

I think the alien physiology might eliminate a lot of this. Who knows what the predators would consider delicious or poison? Would they be suitably equipped to digest other species? Of course some nemetrix predators could cross over and eat the prey of the others, but I think it's highly unlikely most of them can as from what we know they are highly specialized for the inhabitants of the planet they reside in. For example, the centipede looking Dino can take out both aerodactyl and humungousaur because it's highly specialized for their specific adaptations

[@leondyer3855]

Honestly, at this point you should make a video asking whether or not IRL ecological / evolutionary principles actually apply to Ben 10, cuz honestly it's more interesting if you look at it from that angle. Also the fandom should bone up on actual ecology/evolution since I once met a guy in the 5yl discord who thought humans could become "planetary level" by training?!?!?!?!?

[@KirigiriKirin]

Lmfao that person used DBZ logic bc the DBZ Saiyans exist in the 5YL Canon and therefore the same rules should apply to humans by that logic

[@leondyer3855]

@@KirigiriKirin no it's worse, he thought that if each successive generation of humans trained at their finest, and each continuously trained, that they would eventually become planetary after a couple of generations...... He was using Lamarck instead of Darwin and Mendel!

[@douglysium9770]

@@leondyer3855 I guess they would be technically right if they refered specifically to human / anadite hybrids like Gwen because anadites don't have dna in the conventional sense but I'm assuming that's not what they meant and even if they did that wouldn't be possible via just training.

[@rossjones8656]

@@leondyer3855 if X-Men/Quirks/metahuman abilities are taken into account then maybe but this is strictly Ben 10 so I don't know what this guy is smoking.

[@theamazingspooderman2697]

​@@leondyer3855 yeah lol, strength and all that doesn't transfer to the progeny, the progeny will have to train for it

[@magdalenamatuszczyk6717]

I always asumed that Nemetrix had the best predators in the universe and not predator for every single alien. Also since we seen wild crabdozer on regular planet maybe some of these predators were intreduced to their alien prey by acident and are invasive species

[@hiimnameless5520]

I always thought that the reason those preditors were chosen was because when malware got parts of the omnitrix's blueprints, containment information for certain species were leaked, so those would be prime preditors to go after. The only problem being armordrillo, but apparently kevins species is in existance limbo so how ben got armordrillo in the first place is tricky

[@GeorgeDCowley]

Maybe Aggregor would have had a surprise upon returning "home"?

[@superpikachusam1839]

There's a theory that he analyzed Ben's most common omnitrix selection and only chose the ones he has a habit of using

[@mateiolteanu1916]

I don't know why but whenever you say "Kaiber" I keep hearing "Kaiba" and that makes me crack up

[@stabbyog7005]

Birds and Owls are actually good to separate because Owls also hunt smaller prey like mice, so separating the two helps differentiate bigger birds and smaller birds

[@KirigiriKirin]

Oh, well that's good then! I accidentally made the right move lol

[@LucyWest370]

There are many reasons why crabdozer could be rogue, perhaps he was being transported to a zoo or was already on a zoo at the time when he escaped captivity, and was then defeated and sampled by khyber.

[@KirigiriKirin]

True that!

[@theamazingspooderman2697]

they actually orbit their planets before crashing into it, so it's not impossible to assume some of them were thrown away from their orbits and landed on another planets

[@omoefeasiemo3601]

i was more of a Bakugan guy i can still remember that theme song by heart

[@KirigiriKirin]

Respect!

[@_Tzer]

i swear someone'll prolly make a tierzoo type list for ben10 eventually.

[@plazmurr]

For Crabdozer vs Eye Guy, Eye guy can shoot Freeze rays which could deal with the Crabdozer

[@rossjones8656]

Honestly, I remember kyber just grabbed the strongest predator instead of each and every predator because that would be to much.

[@KirigiriKirin]

That'd make much more sense!

[@rossjones8656]

@@KirigiriKirin it also works with the understanding of predator. Why bother go for every type when you can just grab the best.

[@KirigiriKirin]

@rossjones8656 Fr. Easier to get a seldom few apex predators rather than a load of subpar ones

[@rossjones8656]

@@KirigiriKirin I swear kiber said something to that nature but I could be missremebering.

[@demonangeltheo]

Khyber most likely only had the data of what Ben could currently able to transform into when he started hunting down DNA, so he focus on aliens that would help battle against what Ben already had, cause if you remember in Omniverse when Max showed Ben and Gwen the Hypnotick Max explained how they normally hunt down prey that can become intangible which Ben's first thought was aliens like ectonurites

[@Trashinc.-pe3es]

I was telling me friends this exact argument for why crabozzer isn’t heatblast predictor

[@thenerdbeast7375]

The idea of the Nemetrix's species being just a collection of tough aliens makes a lot more sense than them being natural predators because here is a lesson in ecology: PREY AREN'T DEFENSELESS! Even with a slew of adaptations to hunt certain kinds of prey, predators fail in more hunts than they succeed because prey have evolved defenses against their predators, so we shouldn't see the one-sided match ups that we see with most of the aliens in the Nemetrix. Probably the closest to the natural prey/predator relationship is the Tyrannopede and Vaxasaurian match up, as while the Tyrannopede is deadly a healthy adult Vaxasaur _can_ defend itself like how most healthy prey species on Earth can do the same.

[@BradSimkiss]

Nano mech is the only one of his species that was created from the Omnitrix itself

[@theking8347]

For Omnivoracious, Y-It (the museum tour gide) said that the Galvans simply got lucky. A meteorite hit Galvan Prime, and the resulting climate change killed off the species, allowing the Galvans to become dominant.

[@GeorgeDCowley]

Ah. I just thought he had matches for some of Ben's aliens by chance.

[@alextsukishima7666]

Kaiber is basically that one random npc in Pokemon that thought catching strong looking Pokemon would instantly give him a win in every match

[@Ultimate_dumbass69]

9:35-unballweevible

[@frankyanish4833]

I don’t think echo echo has any predators. It’s just living sound inside of a silicon suit.

[@thetheorizermoore7476]

In my fan fic the nemetrix is used to collect the dna of all non sentient animal life forms not just predators in the known universe and gets its own separate codon stream on Primus

[@erikpng]

10:36 to further confirm this and your entire explanation, Khyber says this: I hunted down all the fiercest most savage predators in the galaxy and procured their DNA for the Nemetrix. He himself confirmed he hunted down the predators that were on top of the food chain.

[@CrocsFortress]

So Khyber got specifically these 10 predators cause they were the nastiest and strongest ones.

[@reignellwalker9755]

i like that fanmade omnitrix and yes the scary monkey made me uncomfortable

[@chrishansen1842]

Thank you for bringing me over to collaborate with you! Although I don't remember making my way to the studio....

[@KirigiriKirin]

LMFAO!!! Great to have you on, Chris

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

Crabdozers actually orbit around pyros where they spend most of their lifecycle.They crash into the surface when they want to hunt and after feeding they hitching a ride on solar flares back into said orbit. And as shown in omniverse they also have fire-supressing saliva. Crabdozers can also be found in game preserves.

[@ki14bn]

7:40 This pred can also upgrade himself, so he's semi untouchable Like how we saw with stinkfly. Producing an electric shock. & if I'm not mistaken, his webs can also absorb some projectile attacks

[@crapname9692]

Kiri when seeing every predator: "Sir, If You Have a Complaint I Suggest You Submit It Through Our Celestialsapien retcon System." Kiri when seeing Crabdozer: "You are done. Fired. Do not show your face in the Nemetrix again. Stay away from Zed. Do not go near her. Ever. Are you listening to me?"

[@KirigiriKirin]

TRUUUU

[@mungelomwaangasikateyo376]

The nemetrix is an interesting area of discussion

[@andrewshearsby8125]

Kaiba has a Tardis? Neat

[@Fruitsaur]

Crazy how Khyber pulled up with absolutely no response to Chamalien and Ben still didn't use him

[@dex_reanimacja2582]

Also Khyber collected Psycholeopterran, Vicetopus, Slampede and Tyrranopede - "predators" of aliens that ben also didn't had unlocked when he was 11

[@cugzarui5568]

something i like about ben 10 lore is we can't rule out that kaiber IS actually a time traveler nor can we rule out that the shows plot holes (like heatblasts predator not being on heatblasts planet) were created by celestial sapiens

[@KirigiriKirin]

That's a great point!

[@maximusbudzinski98]

There's actually over a million samples in the omnitrix

[@CassiusSharp]

5:35 that’s exactly what happened. An Ice Age caused Omnivoracious to go extinct and Kyber got the DNA from fossil in a Galvan museum. Had it been a while since you’ve seen the show?

[@KirigiriKirin]

A little bit since I watched that particular episode, yes!

[@TheSaphireKatana]

11:20 I would personally disagree with this as we need to keep in mind we are only seeing half the planet from space, our own planet had both volcanic, jungle, desert and frozen regions Not even mentioning potential subterranean regions that we have barely explored For all we know their could very well be a region of the world that has vast forest's Theirs also the fact that it is never stated for how long the crab dozer has existed, perhaps their used to be environments of jungles thousands of years ago but the heat blasts terraformed their world and had the crab dozens relocated to a different world for the sake of not driving them to extinction Theirs also the fact that it's never stated how long heat blasts first colonised other worlds, maybe crab dozers are native to a different planet but when heat blasts arrived to colonise the world they adapted to hunt them Similar to America with bears and native americans The world's and universe Ben 10 contain such complex and strange biology that there's just to many possibilities to draw to any one conclusion when subjects like these have very little information Still you make amazing stuff and can't wait to see more vids

[@ionas1402]

I think because we are talking about aliens who live in different planets from eachother for example a heatblast predator could kiil an swampfire but they would nevere came across eachother because they live in different planets thats why they say its a heatblast predator because it leaves near pyronights and not swampfires

[@aldaynewisdom9269]

9:35 one word abundance

[@KirigiriKirin]

Fair enough!

[@espresso_makes_depresso5905]

Classic Ben 10's predator calls him 'kitten'

[@AlynneTheFlorifant]

Fan of digimon here, also the fusion concept is rad, but just like the ultimate concept defeats the purpose of "walking a mile" in another creatures "shoes" I am a fan of the skurd concept alot, becuase it honestly shows how species could work together in harmony

[@zurrionglitch]

There's a reason why I'm an og Ben 10 fan. It's bc of these controversial topics and theories. It just makes the og franchise even better. Onto your poll I personally loved and still love Yu-Gi-Oh. I'm guessing your favorite one growing up was Bakugan.

[@primus3217]

wasn't NRG's real body like a walking sun

[@Mike-mf3ed]

Maybe Kyber should’ve got more DNA samples? For the poll: I used to be a fan of bakugan. I still like it, but I never bought or used their toys and cards. That was a thing my cousins did. However, we all still have both new and old beyblades that we use during the summer because it’s fun to watch them either fly off the unprotected arena (set up that way on purpose) or explode or hit one of us anywhere except the face or groin. We only did this during summer because our hideout lacks sufficient heating and is cold af the rest of the year… also never got ’into’ Yugiyo (don’t even know if I spelled it right.

[@cloverchite7777]

Im new here! And honestly I stimmed so hard knowing yt suggested this because I am a HUGE ben 10 fan and ive been delving deep into the world building of ben's aliens that i wish we had more of, their cultures, etc. I just love seeing discussion about the aliens evolutions, their biology and like what this video was talking about. Its just so cool i cant say that enough, definetly gonna watch the other ben 10 discussion videos. Currently for a little au im doing, im creating more world building for the Methosonian alien species and its so fun

[@KirigiriKirin]

Hope you like what you see!

[@cloverchite7777]

​@@KirigiriKirini def do! :D

[@KirigiriKirin]

I'm very happy to hear that@@cloverchite7777 !!!

[@immortalkoopah3138]

honestly there's one alien set that makes me hate the idea of the nemetrix which made no sense. Terroranchula can handle three aliens in the omnitrix easily: Stinkfly because the webs short out the lepidopteran nervous system like a paralytic bite, Ball Weevil cause it can neutralize the plasma balls, and if the lepidopteran reaction to the webbing is right Orthopterrans cause all it needs to do is just make the web large enough and then slowly work the Orthopterran towards the web in fear and there ya go easy meal. but on top of it the things apparently also came from one of the home world of the Atrocians meaning THEY were another species the Terroranchula sample could also probably kill it too in addition to the various species you also said for both Buglizard and Mucilator cause Spiders are one of the most efficient predators in the world and the neutralizing energy webs could kill the other aliens you listed for them both. I just found the concept weirder than it needed to be and wondered how Khyber could always claim to be the best hunstman when he fell short on multiple occasions with one of his strongest dna sources

[@Kakaragi]

In the classic continuity, it’s kinda disputed is Pyros is a planet or star

[@dr0g_Oakblood]

12:06 - An aquatic predator of a primarily land-based species, that uh, raises more questions than it answers methinks.

[@KirigiriKirin]

I mean, stonefish kill humans all the time Aquatic species can kill land-based ones, no problem Same goes for hippos, and so on

[@dr0g_Oakblood]

@@KirigiriKirin I mean fair, just as like, the primary predator? The Aburian Pelorotas really don’t seem like they are built to go anywhere near the deep ocean, but whatever. Maybe it’s an amphibious predator that rides tsunamis deep inland due the tidal conditions on the planet being bizarre and that’s why the A.P. Evolved to be so Roll-with-the-punches or whatever.

[@torazely]

Okay, but imagine Khyber working with Psychobos in order to make some ultimate Nemetrix, with DNA from the best predators for all of Ben's aliens.

[@KirigiriKirin]

I mean we do see Ultimate Panuncians

[@torazely]

@@KirigiriKirin no no. Not Ultimate Nemetrix, just an ultimate Nemetrix. Weren't not talking like Ultimate Aliens, just some massive compendium of essentially every powerful predator that could be a threat to one of Ben's aliens.

[@ianjordan8964]

5:51 im not sure it would be an effective predator for nanomech considering its an order of magnitude smaller than the others. Though it probably doesnt have anything resembling a predator because it only exists on earth and has only existed for less than 10 years

[@zzodysseuszz]

4:16 predator doesn’t mean “can beat it in a fight” it means “can eat it/hunt it” a lion cannot effectively beat a crocodile in a fight but it could hunt it. After all, leopard and jaguars kill crocodiles by landing one good bite onto their skull and killing them, but if they miss or fall into the water they’re fucking dead. They cannot fight a crocodile, they would simply lose. However, they still hunt them. Because they’ve learnt a useful strategy that works.

[@tobiaskadachi]

This is something I would see in Monster Hunter

[@stupertim4894]

I think kaiber looked for the best combination of preditors to counter as many of bens aliens with the fewest samples possible, this way he didn't spend decades trying to find all of the predators

[@lorelord2418]

Oh, I remember this weird plot device. I hated the Nemetrix. It's a ridiculous premise from the word go. If you look at human history, there's basically only one predator of humans that's still extant. The Polar Bear. Because if you have a sapient animal that can plan ahead, it's first step is to kill off its predators. And basically every specimen of megafauna that can be food. I mean look at the Galvans and the Omnivoracious. Its a big flying spooky thing that ate super intelligent frogs. And now it's extinct. Reasonably, if you have some sort of herbivore species, I can see their planet avoiding their equivalent of a Holocene extinction event due to predation, but I can't think of any sapient species that wouldn't devote significant amounts of wffort into killing off anything big and spooky that wants to eat them.

[@justsomeguywithamustache3489]

I cant watch this video without hearing the damn *Pharaoh's Curse!!!*

[@KirigiriKirin]

RETURN THE SLAB

[@onionsoup329]

i like to think that if the crabdozers do live on pyro, they live underground. also for the poll, my childhood favorite was pokemon, i've spent well over 150+ hrs on pokemon black

[@Neutral_Tired]

The nemetrix aliens may well have been selected specifically to hunt Ben's original 10 aliens but with enough utility to be used elsewhere if necessary. Buglizard is specialised for Stinkfly, Crabdozer for Heatblast, Hypnotick for Ghost Freak, Panuncian vs Wildmutt (can't surprise him with his enhanced senses, so multiply and attack from multiple directions at once), Mucilator for XLR8, Omnivoracious for Grey Matter, Slamworm for Diamondhead (ambush him and try to swallow him whole, then allow the potent acid to dissolve his crystal body), Terroranchula vs Upgrade (the plasma webs are shown to be able to shock targets and I think Galvanic Mechamorphs are vulnerable to electrical attacks), Tyrannopede for Four Arms and Vicetopus for Ripjaws (mostly a guess, as it's the only one that looks aquatic). But, as well as those specialisations, they're all at least somewhat capable of fighting others of the classic 10 and, as we see in the show, aliens outside of that playlist as well.

[@kurt50alien]

On screen we see Khyber collect the DNA or have it be used of 3 predator species from the same planets as aliens that Ben wouldn't unlock until later. Terroranchula, Mucilator, and Slamworm. My personal headcanon is that Terroranchula is a general counter for electric based aliens because of what we see Phil do as a hybrid of that species(something you seem to agree with). And the other part of my headcanon is that Mucilator and Slamworm were intended to be good stand-ins for what would have been the main counters for Cannonbolt and Diamondhead respectively had Arburia and Petropia not been destroyed when Khyber was collecting DNA. This of course is entirely based on the notion that each alien in the Nemetrix was intended as a counter for each of Ben's most used aliens. Which thinking about it, the first 5 nemetrix predators were. Buglizard-Obviously Stinkfly, the only alien Ben had at the time that could fly really well, so it needed a counter. Crabdozer- Clearly intended for Heatblast with one thing you missed, Crabdozer saliva can extinguish the flames of a Pyronite, flames we know can get as hot as a supernova because of "Don't Drink the Water". Terroanchula-At the time Ben had several aliens that could produce electrical attacks of some kind: Upgrade, Frankenstrike, Eye Guy, and Feedback. Mucilator- Cannonbolt is easily an alien we can consider a go to for Ben seeing as it was the first alien he decided to turn into when he had access to his old aliens again, so it can be reasonable to assume Khyber thought he would need a counter to the fast nature and with no Arburia to go to to collect the native predator, he had to improvise and chose something that could stop Cannonbolt it it's tracks. Slamworm- Hands down Ben is the most skilled with Diamondhead, so Khyber likely had to find a counter to him as well. He likely hoped the Slamworm would be good enough, to crack through the Petropian. The later 5 are easier to explain because they aren't convoluted. Hypnotick- It was right there when Malware was doing his thing in the flashback in Malefactor. He probably grabbed DNA for the nemetrix out of convience. Tyrannopede-We don't know when Khyber got it so it could easily have been obtained post Ben 10 Returns and Khyber hears about Hummungousaur. Vicetopus-Insurance for Psychobos Omnivoracious-Malware likely had Khyber include it to deal with Azmuth. Panucian-Easiest one. A new pet to replace Zed, likely used instead of another of Zed's species so as a repeat of what happened with Zed doesn't occur. And there are my ramblings on the thought process behind every predator choice.

[@TheGamingReaper]

I was a big fan of YuGiOh growing up. Being able to play the card game really helped with that. As for your favorite... IDK, Pokemon?

[@alimohamedabdelraouf9811]

there are over 1 million transformations ben has access to when he has master control not only 10k

[@ESw0rdsman]

“Emphasis on most” and you DIDN’T show Diamondhead?!

[@MothsSock]

Personal The crab dozers are probably one of wildvines (i forgot the name of the species) predators because: The crab dozer have thick shells(?) to counter the bombs of wildvine The spikes/ horns would counter the vines And the large bulky-ness to counter the wildvines ambush stuff (it would be a lot harder to ambush a big creature that's like 10x bigger then yourself) their habit is quite floral which would match wildvines theme

[@gochogames1360]

I agree with these points, I just want to add my own little bit of trivia: Many of the predators are the real-life predators of Ben’s real aliens BugLizard prey on StinkFly Lizards prey on insects Terrorantula prey on BallWeevil Spiders prey on beetles Omnivoratious prey on GreyMatter Birds prey on frogs Vicetopus prey on BrainStorm Octopus prey on crabs And it might be a stretch but ditto to me seems slightly mouse-ish; small, cute (depends on who you ask), and they’re everywhere Pununcian prey on ditto Cats prey on mice Ironically SlamWorm hunting armodrillo is odd since armadillos eat worms

[@KirigiriKirin]

Oh, that's fascinating! I never thought of it that way!

[@devastatheseeker9967]

Did anyone ever say that the nemetrix predators were hyperspecialized?

[@KirigiriKirin]

A lot of people in the fandom thought so, yeah

[@Vexons]

Big chills predictor can effect humans as well in the episode where malware broke into mtn Rushmore Edit: it has been 2 weeks damn well I found the episode it is called “Malefactor” it is season 2 episode 5

[@KirigiriKirin]

Thank you for this extra big of context!

[@Vexons]

@@KirigiriKirin No Problem Anytime!

[@Zadanoire]

*the omnivoratious is gay here’s from a fossil as we LITERALLY SEE KYBER GRAB THE SAMPLE IN THE SAME EPISODE*

[@reignellwalker9755]

i most definitely was a pokemon fan and i still am. Man i remember in 3rd grade playing pokemon with my friends

[@twistedyogert]

I understand how Galvans (Azmuth's species). Prehistoric Galvin Prime must've been an extremely dangerous place for the Galvan species to have evolved their intelligence. Everything must've been after them.

[@SeraphOC]

To answer the poll for today: This is a bit of a tough one. I didn't really grow up with YGO but I did collect cards whenever I could. I watched the original Beyblade cartoon when it was coming out but never got past the first season because I didn't have TV for a good chunk of my life. That said, I did collect one...until I lost it while moving. I watched the first....3 Bakugan series as a teenager, but I watched the first one while it was airing (To explain, I mean the series prior to any extra modifiers on the bakugan. I have one of the light element toys still.) And pokemon....Look, if you didn't grow up with pokemon, you're either in a 3rd world country, or you had strict parents. All that to say, my vote goes towards Bakugan with Pokemon coming in for a close second.