You Have The WRONG Antenna - GMRS Radio Antenna Basics & 1st Look Midland Bull Bar Antennas

[@ssrrocks22]

Yes the antenna matters, however, the placement of that antenna matters just as much. Installing the antenna on a front or rear bumper will cause you to have less signal to the front or rear of m your vehicle depending on where it is placed. RF signal has a tendency to want to follow the metal of the vehicle. So placing the antenna on the rear bumper will in effect give you better gain to the front of the vehicle versus the rear. This is why Installing the antenna as close to the middle of the roof of the vehicle gives your the best performance over all.

[@Hubjeep]

Yes, the center of the roof makes a nice ground plane as well.

[@jackmarsh7328]

What if I install it on my roof rack. The side of roof rack

[@ssrrocks22]

@jackmarsh7328 : Installing the antenna on the roof rack often can cause ground issues for the antenna. It doesn't mean you can not install the antenna on a roof rack. Just be aware that you may have some issues when trying to tune the antenna for the lowest SWR. Try to be sure the antenna mount is well grounded to the roof rack. This will ensure the best performance of the antenna.

[@jackmarsh7328]

@@ssrrocks22 thanks for the advice sir

[@MPD-ih6sm]

​@jackmarsh7328 You can install an antenna on the roof rack, however, I would use a half wave antenna. These do not require a ground plane (metal roof). Quarter wave antennas, like the first antenna in the video (4:09 min) are unity gain and need a ground plane.

[@OnTheRoadInMaine]

You are correct when it comes to antennas and your terrain. I used to live in Connecticut and had used UHF on a job I worked. The vehicles we had used a combo of 5/8 wave antennas and 1/4 wave antennas. I observed that 5/8 wave antennas did much better, especially as far as receive was concerned. Many years later I now live in Maine. I got into GMRS and decided that I was going to go out and buy a 5/8 wave because those were the best antennas. WRONG! Where I live has many mountains and hills which make UHF sometimes impossible in some areas. I couldn't figure out why a 5/8 wave antenna wasn't working. So, fed up with it, I took it off and slapped a 1/4 wave antenna on the vehicle and all of a sudden I was receiving so much more and at farther distances. It was explained to me that it has to do with the angle of radiation that the antennas put off. Evidently 1/4 wave antennas have a higher angle of radiation that is needed when trying to reach higher points such as when you live around mountains and hills. So, yep, I made the same mistake.

[@kennethschultz6465]

@wrqi583 you culd not be more wrong this is U H F not WALKITALKI DUUUUDE.. this is real radio LINE OF SIGHT RADIO so the higher and the BIGGER Gain the better .. sadly for you you can argu all you want but Earth ain´t flat.. and mountins kill any or all signals unless you know how to use a HF radio .. but i dought it on this band 462MHz 464MHz the game is good cabel POPE H155 or AIRCELL7 absolutly longest and best gain in DBd and highest plasement on car possibel and no kinks or sharp turns on cabel no clean lines no strip.. a 1/4 will result in somthing called driving flutter in the HAM world thats rapid signal fluktioations .. while driving it get smoother the bigger antenna we use COMET csb-7900 3x 5/8 on UHF need tune to GMSR and just a fyi... you´r 50watt radio only put out 25 watt on a 1/4 but 100Watt on a 5/8 wave... that what gain does for you so if you still clami 1/4 is better (dummy load) well you need schoool money back and buy a new 5/8 the one loosing to a 1/4 is defektive

[@OnTheRoadInMaine]

@@kennethschultz6465 Plain and simple - I live in a very hilly terrain, an area where someone like you would not even think to use UHF. I experimented with several antennas and the 1/4 wave won over all of the other BRAND NEW antennas. I consulted another Ham, one who hasn't been poisoned by the HF yet, and he confirmed exactly what I found for a result. He even mentioned, and I have seen others who use GMRS in hilly terrain, that 1/4 wave antennas work much better because of the angle of radiation. I am looking to talk locally. That is what UHF is. If you know anything about me, I hate long distance communication such as HF. When I need to talk near by me, I dont want my signal going 1000 miles. I dont care about the next person 1000 miles away!!! Just by the way you talk, you have got to be another one of these arrogant Ham operators. Another reason for me to stay off of the Ham bands, even locally. Do not dare tell me how things are with radio. You obviously have a college degree that told you this. I have a degree from the school of experimentation and physically observing what actually works for me. You cant get any better than that. The only thing I currently work with is UHF. So go back to your HF and making contacts around the world and leave me and anyone else who wants to work with this stuff alone. YOU are one of thousands of people why I am turned off to upgrading my license to General and operating HF. YOU and thousands of other Hams are the reason I am fed up with Ham radio and YOU and many others are the reason I know many people who refuse to get a Ham license because of your attitudes. If you want to keep your bands, I suggest you cool your attitude. It is only radio. I deeply apologize for not contributing to your HF contesting. I would rather drive an ice pick through my skull than scream CQ all day! My interest in radio always has been and always will be the VHF/UHF spectrum. Deal with it, because there are many more like me out there. Let us experiment and find what works for us while you collect 100 contacts an hour so you can get another award on the wall. 73 N1YFA

[@ricdonato4328]

@@kennethschultz6465 "... buy a new 5/8 the one loosing to a 1/4..." oops an all too common spelling and error, it should read losing not loosing. There is not a word in the English language loosing, however there is loose, loosen loosened, loosening, all indicating something not tight. Notice lose, losing lost, and loss, all have one letter o. Hope this helps you and others. Cordially.

[@kennethschultz6465]

@@ricdonato4328 Queens english .. i use english/english word book not USA/English and saad for you i am a FREAKIN VIKING DESENDENT soo.. 20.000 words of english langue is culored by DANISH and yes saad for you i am infact a DANE the most spelling errores occure when the danish side of my Labtop or danish googel make spelling checks.. so endiiiid sorry for that.. fist things first .. if you realy think somthing less is better then somthing bigger ... well welcome to FREAKIN FLAT EARF. a 1/4 is minus 1.5DBd a 5/8 is +1.5DBd so a 5/8 is 3 DBd better thats a X2 Factor 50Watt become´s 100Watt and it RX Listens X2 too .. the 6DBd antennas is X4 that 50x4 200Watt JUST LIKE THAT and X4 on RX Listening..and the X¤ also Dubbel the RANGE from 25KM to 50KMunless mountins JUST LIKE THAT.. but but.. if a 1/4 suddenly work better then a 5/8 well the 5/8 is DEFECT.. Genius. but thx for asking..

[@keithamdahl3948]

@@kennethschultz6465 you're right that Line of Sight is the real limiter on UHF. However there could be a lot more going on with the antenna change. While I too prefer a 5/8 wave, the improvement with a 1/4 wave may be due to a base or cable change too. I've seen a lot of signal degrade due to a poor cable.

[@jbrcich709]

I'd like to see how you shorten the antenna wire with the tool you mentioned.

[@keithamdahl3948]

just look up video for PL/SO Coax connector replacement. I suggest crimp connectors over solder for the less skilled.

[@dennisjones8991]

If you go offroad more thatn once a year, you must have a closed coil antenna, any open coil antenna can suffer from deturning by any foreign material, including ice. Mount on the highest point possible preferably on the roof with 6 inches of metal around the antenna. A 1/4 wave antenna has a higher agle of radiation, which is better in mountainous or city comms. the higher gain antennas have a lower angle of radiation which is good on flatter terrain. Those that are more techy can have a antenna switch and use both depending on terrain and allows continued use when the inevitable breakage of an antenna occurs. Also, install ground straps on any item sucha as hoods, doors, hatches to ensure ground to the frame for noise reduction. Hope this helps as well. 73's N7TZQ WRQT522

[@ifixit775]

Well, sort of. You are spot on with the radiation angle. A 1/4 wave antenna will tend to radiate at a 45° angle with reference to the ground plane (the other half of the antenna). RF does not radiate up and then rain down - it is line of sight. Because of that, you are unlikely to notice any loss or gain in obstructed areas (more effective power radiated at a lower angle vs less power radiated at a higher angle). Give me a higher gain antenna any day magneted right in the middle of my roof (best for not catching branches too) for best overall performance. It's all in the ARRL book.

[@trentdavis8919]

This is so funny because when I first got into GMRS a few years ago I was looking everywhere for the bulbar antennas and I mean literally everywhere on the internet and could not find any but here they are now lol

[@f1y7rap]

To the point of grounding and rust: When mounting the antenna it is best practice to run a ground strap. The part of the mount that bolts to the frame/body/bumper it is usually secured with a nut. Run a ground strap/lead from the nut/mount to the nearest body ground. For all situations you should use a contact grease or a dielectric grease. Contact grease can be used between electrical contacts, dielectric grease is used on contacts (as a coating). Moly grease can also be used in lieu of dielectric.

[@michaelschmidt5444]

Very glad you shared all that. We learn from our mistakes and it’s good to share them to help the rest of us. Thank you!

[@dimjim2365]

You normally have to solder (40W Iron or above) the wire to the center pin and the shield is trimmed back a little and place over the shell and crimped into place. Make sure you use a meter to check for an open between the pin and the shell. Metal to metal on the ground is very important for signal quality. Permatex and Loctite make a conductive anti-seize that you cover the exposed metal with to prevent rust and make a conductive path for the ground. You can also cover the exposed PL259 with rubber glue to act as a moisture barrier and rust prevention.

[@jimp.7286]

Center is good for all directions but that's not always possible. Truckers use co-phased antennas on their mirrors to throw a lobe forward and backward because they're usually talking to trucks on the same route ahead/behind. But that's down on 11meters. High up is best for vhf/uhf. Can't do it because of roof racks? They make antenna mounts for roof racks that push it out to side a bit. Won't be center but it gets the antenna higher up above vehicle roof line and at high freqs, much better than on a fender corner with a stubby antenna looking at the ground. Antennas on moving vehicles are always a compromise of some kind. Many of us have struggled with this very issue over the years. Cheers. 👍

[@Brood_Master]

Good video... One thing you didn't mention and perhaps don't know about is the importance of tuning the antenna to have as low of an SWR as you can. SWR means... Standing Wave Ratio. This is the ratio of outdoing signal to incoming signal at your transmitter while transmitting. You want this number to be as low as possible both to protect your transmitter from overheating and give you as much outdoing power into the air as you can get for best performance... This is accomplished by adjusting the length of the antenna for the frequencies you will be using in conjunction with an SWR meter. Many will say... The antennas you buy are already tuned, and they'll be right, kinda-sporta.... Except the antennas are typically tuned with a perfect, flat ground plane under the antenna and no obstructions. Any change to that perfect environment changes the SWR... Sometimes significantly... For example, that bumper mounted antenna you show in this video versus a roof mount where you have a large unobstructed area around the antenna... I have spent years using GMRS, CB, and ham radio with a specific focus on antennas, both mobil and stationary, and have found this to be true. Getting this right will make the most of the equipment you have and ensure the equipment lasts longer as well...

[@THE_BaconPirate]

@Brood_Master Will an SWR meter for CB work with a GMRS?

[@Brood_Master]

​@@THE_BaconPirate No... The frequency range of the meter is wrong. You'll need an SWR meter that works for the UHF band...

[@bartpickens8650]

The bull bar antenna he is promoting is not a tunable design. The 6dB open coil is somewhat tunable, as is the 6” quarterwave shown in the video. Practically, most of them are already cut very close to the frequencies used.

[@Brood_Master]

@THE_BaconPirate No... Not with any accuracy anyway. CB is 27mhz, or 11meter band GMRS is 462 ish mhz or 70cm UHF band You need an SWR meter tuned for UHF

[@wesmurer6884]

Curious about installing dual antennas, or dual antennas of different db ratings?

[@NickWindham]

Good idea. You could go 6.6 dB or 3 dB with a switch.

[@dylantaylor8931]

As an Aussie, it’s super interesting to see how the US does radio comms for 4wding/overlanding. We only get 5w radios and have a lot of country to cover but there are a few other key differences. Appreciate the recognition of our industry trends😊.

[@ronrico2620]

In USA the FRS channels are limited to 0.5 watts. GMRS is limited at 50 watts just have to pay the govt $35 to get a call sign. The ham frequencies just needs 1-3 tests that are pretty difficult. Each test allows you different frequency bands or access to the full band. There is no power limit for many bands, just have to do the math to make sure your neighbors don't get too much RF exposure. Some of the ham bands 5 watts can go around the world. If you are limited on power then look into better antennas. Yagi or log mag antennas are very directional and can go long distances. I bring a rope and some low loss cable so I can pull an antenna up a tree. Height is great depending on the frequency. I've talked on the radio to people in Australia so I know you guys can do it

[@coldandaloof7166]

Old CB/Ham guy here. Antennas (and placement) matter way more than wattage. Wattage is nice, but good antennas and height matter much more. GMRS is great but limited by all the other UHF handicaps. I just talked to Aruba on 10m HF the other day on 25 watts from my car. Generally speaking the center of your car is best with a good ground.

[@kerryclark1926]

How about a magnetic antenna on top of the truck?

[@roamingkilt]

LED headlights will also produce a ton of noise. At least that's what I've noticed on the CB and GMRS radios that I've installed.

[@titan_six]

Like in general or if you run the antenna cable near the headlights?

[@keithamdahl3948]

@@titan_six proximity is significant, but those LED units have drivers that often include switch-mode power conversion. Such converters have pulsed transformers in them that are effectively going to radiate noise just like an old ignition coil and point setup. proper grounding and RF management should be kept in mind.

[@leewaddell8561]

Great info my GMRS radio has a humming notice on TX, I've done the same thing and extra coax just balled up and stuffed into a space. I will now shorten it and I have put ferrite on my alternator cables as well. Thanks for all your info.

[@justsayingforafriend7010]

Just buy a $2.00 ferret bead and attach around your feed line and experiment on other things I.e. Led lighting power cord/ alternator put cord.

[@THE_BaconPirate]

Be careful cutting the length of the coax, there are (from what I understand) *very* precise measurements in length that effect the SWR's.... 😮 Again, from what I understand, if you cut it to the wrong length, it *can* fry your radio! 😮

[@currentlyhd7649]

Would a ghost antenna up on the roof perform better than the bull bar antenna on the bumper since it is lower to the ground?

[@peterkunka2694]

Short answer is yes. Height is might. Even though the ghost antenna is smaller, it will be better positioned on the roof to transmit/receive than a larger antenna on a bumper. It will also radiate a better signal pattern all around the vehicle instead of being very directional using a bumper mount (the more center mounted on the roof the better). I'm using a ghost antenna on my F-150 3rd brake light antenna mount for ham & gmrs and have no problem hitting repeaters up to 40 miles away (I'm in Phoenix using an Icom ID-5100 radio in the truck). This video is old but hope my reply helps answer your question. Cheers! Pete in Arizona - KI7LIL / WRXY843

[@currentlyhd7649]

@@peterkunka2694 Still have my ghost antenna up top! I like the look of the bumper antennas but if it’s not an upgrade then I’ll take your advice and pass. Thank you!

[@peterkunka2694]

@@currentlyhd7649 No problem. More info to think about... I guess it depends on how you would be using the bumper mounted antenna... short range in a convoy of vehicles with the idea of a lower height to avoid striking tree branches while off-road... then, that may be a better way to go than a roof mounted ghost antenna that may get snagged or break hitting a branch. I'm in the very wide open Southwest USA and seek distance performance out of my antenna's. The ghost is nice daily driving around because it fits in the garage, can stay on through carwashes, and local range for repeaters in Phoenix is up to 40 miles (I'd cut that down to around 15 miles for simplex on flat land in the city). The bumper mount antenna will be very directional... so you may get similar 10-15 miles simplex range facing one direction... but, the range in the opposite direction may be only a couple miles (thus, might be usable for off-road convoys where vehicles are together on a trail). This is why I prefer (any) antenna to be mounted as high and centered as possible, to get the best radiation pattern completely around the vehicle for better performance transmitting and receiving. Glad your ghost is working for you up high... keep using it! If you have any other questions, let me know, I'm on YT in the evenings watching friends videos/commenting. I also post on IG (@azcamperpete)... I haven't updated with my ghost antenna there yet, I was using a Comet B-10 for a while, which is a fantastic 12" antenna before I found the ghost antenna... so I'm due for pics/update soon with the ghost antenna and ham/gmrs performance updates. Are you using ham or gmrs?... and where are you located?... maybe I'll catch you on the air sometime? Cheers! Pete

[@jimduke5439]

Bumper mounting is not very effective. A 1/4 wave antenna in middle of roof will outperform and bumper mount.

[@Elginet]

Sounds like he misunderstood something in antenna placement.

[@NA12495]

Having it on the front there, he is getting some blockage. It will favor stations to the front right. If this was HF I would keep away from the engine where it might get interference from the engine.

[@NemoOhd20]

Exactly my thought as I watched this. I but that lil 1/4 on top would out perform that giant antenna on the bumper.

[@jt_overland]

I have learned some of the same things over the last year and have made similar mistakes. Although, in both of our defenses, Midland and others have not done a very good job, till recently, with providing helpful information on what antenna to use or other basic best practice information. Buying a GMRS radio is the easy part. The rest of it is a darkly held secret that makes it difficult to get off on a good foot. My partner and I lead groups through remote areas of Michigans Upper Peninsula and good radio communication is extremely important. It’s been a game of trail and error over the last year fine tuning our radios for the type of terrain we encounter. This video was excellent and will hopefully help others skip the expense of incorrect equipment and frustrations.

[@OutdoorAuto]

Sounds like we went through the same thing this year... definitely glad the manufacturers seem to be taking an active role in education now.

[@loveracing1988]

I'm in the same boat as you. We do the UP and drummond island every year and have the cheapest midland gmrs radios they make for vehicles. They are 5 watt though and don't seem to have any more range than my standard frs handhelds. Hopefully I can do some of the things in this video so we can go more than 100 yards apart and still communicate.

[@lowandslow3939]

Was that “trail and error” error on purpose? Clever if it was.

[@halledwardb]

With power its a 4x for 1 S unit. That would mean 5w to 20w for 1 S unit displayed.

[@brianolson1311]

@@OutdoorAutohave you done the comparison using the 3db antenna in the mountains/woods?

[@garretlewis4103]

I run Midland radios for my GMRS comms. They make good radios at a really decent price. I am running the the MTXA25 on a bracket I made for my ditch light mounts. I know not the best place because it is beside my one light, but it works well. Glad to see Midland has an amplified speaker. The volume level on my Midland GMRS radio doesn’t go very high.

[@RoamBearded]

Got the stubby 3db hood mounted and cable running through the hood to the passenger door, yes the door lol. Was going to "upgrade" to the 6db but sounds like im fine without that in northern UT. Great video brother!

[@garretlewis4103]

I run the study on a bracket I made and have it bolted to my ditch (A pillar) light mount. Doesn’t do too bad. I know it could be mounted better. Like the center of my roof; however, I have talked to my wife (she had a handheld radio) about 2-3 though wooded terrain which I thought was pretty good.

[@jakemaughan3818]

So glad your making videos again

[@OutdoorAuto]

Had to take that break to finish off another project,,, and have another kid... but now I'm back and this is what I do full time now. It's a ton of work but I really enjoy it.

[@jakemaughan3818]

@@OutdoorAuto well keep up the good work! The new shop looks incredible.

[@MrEpaulets]

Their note about not mounting above the roof line was specific to bull bar antenna. Height helps any antenna - and a conventional thin antenna can definitely be mounted on your roof. A big metal roof is a also a great ground plane. I think bumper mounts are popular in part because jeeps and broncos with soft tops don’t have a roof ground plane.

[@tmcnicho]

This was great. I think I’ll be learning to cut my antenna cable to length when I do some gear relocations later this fall.

[@keithamdahl3948]

read up on application of a Coil Choke. That extra cable can be put to good use if coiled up correctly. It can actually improve the SWR of the antenna as well as limit interference.

[@BionMTG]

to combat the rust concern. you can make a short wire on a large eye loop and run a grounding strap with the coax, and ground it to the chassis in the engine bay. It's a really clean look and common grounds the entire system, being that the power for the system, and the coax usually run through the same firewall punch.

[@newFaction64]

I didn’t hear him discuss rust, is this in reference to rusting of the antenna or of the body of the vehicle?

[@OblivionRatula]

@@newFaction64 He's talking about vehicle rust. Check around the 8:50 mark.

[@cedaroakfarm8596]

Did not know about the bull antenna, We run GMRS radios on the farm RTVs and the antenna takes a beating with limbs and brush on the forest trails, sometimes, knocking it off, I do have the new speaker on the base unit, it works great.

[@OutdoorAuto]

I’d watch and see if they have a Black Friday sale on them.

[@slik560]

I’ve been into radio for over 3years - ham, GMRS, MURS etc but I learned a few new things from THIS video. Thanks. Subscribed 👍👍🇺🇸

[@keithamdahl3948]

Get the ARRL books. both the handbook and the antenna book. Well worth the cost!

[@vincentkeith5259]

Antenna are complex - ask any General or Expert class Ham - you can study them for years and still do things wrong. It's an unfortunate fact of life that antenna and vehicles are a bad mix. Since most antenna are ground plane designs (a conductive surface that is perpendicular to the antenna mast) and the larger the ground plane the stronger the signal (in and out) -- The ideal placement (for the antenna signal) is dead center in the middle of the roof - which of course is the worst place to put one from a vehicle perspective - even worse if you're going places with branches over head or, garages. Compromise is the only viable choice. It would be interesting to see the difference between a stubby (sayh, less than 10 inchs) mounted to the luggage rack and the bull bar antenna. And no - I have no prediction, just curious.

[@keithamdahl3948]

Antennas are an energy radiating system. Many things come into play to really peak their performance. However, so long as the transmitter sees an SWR of under 3, most stuff will run just fine. Modern radios will just shut the Tx off if the SWR is too high. No more blowing final transistors if the antenna is disconnected or out of tune.

[@kennethschultz6465]

Hey bro .. good insight Most antennas today are C-loaded .. the earth or grundplanen is build in the antenna.. SO you can mount in glasfiber with out any groundplane.. LOOK for C-loadet.. most Comet and Diamond are C-loaded.. but it is stampede on antennas

[@timhargrove6493]

Where is your Baja repeater located? What are the frequency and tones for access? I have a house in San Felipe and maybe help if the repeater is close to San Felipe. Adding Zello to the repeater can add to its capabilities.

[@dragosdiaconu629]

In my country CB is really popular, we usually mount the whip antennas with suction cups on the roof of our cars. There's guys with modded rigs talking tens of km and our country is mostly forest with hills and mountains

[@davidwade2829]

Found enjoyable, helpful; just got my first gmr

[@InGratitudeIam]

This is really helpful. I live in the mountains and have found that the tall, skinny MXTA26 (6dB) is okay, but it doesn't perform as well as the MXTA25 (3dB) stubby. The 26 is also noisier than the 25 in my environment. Even the MXTA13 (2.1dB) seems to work better than the 26. But, if I go somewhere that is wide open, I'll give either the 26 or MXTA01 a shot. Thanks also for the install tips.

[@sonsoflibertyoverland]

Cool I didn't know the difference between Db gain. Just figured bigger was better. I'm glad I have the 3Db ghost for my area.

[@OutdoorAuto]

3db antennas are pretty solid for most of the places people love to overland.

[@tommygrayjeepguy]

Yes, I’m using a 6 db gain in Kentucky and think I should change to a 3db

[@OutdoorAuto]

With antennas it is so easy to just assume that bigger is better...

[@garretlewis4103]

P.S. I lived through the days of CB radio (KANJ5964). These GMRS radios are much better. Ahh….tuning the antenna with a SWR meter. At least you did if you wanted it to be the best it could be.

[@dasfahrer8187]

Wonder what the dB is for those huge whips that people bend from their front bumper over their roof and stretch the entire length of the truck?

[@vincentkeith5259]

those are typically 1/4 wave and the length will depend on the frequency of the radio - and may only be 2-3db - if it's a base loaded whip (coiled wire near the base) then you'll start to see numbers in the 4-8db range. When you bend them you change the orientation of the single pattern, making it more directional. You will also likely change the SWR (standing wave ratio) which is basically a measurement of how good the connection is between your radio and the antenna 1:1 is perfect (and not really necessary) very high numbers can actually result in damage to the radio on high power rigs. In the case of the tethered long whip - you get slightly better results if you want to talk the space station, but not so good for the people on the ground. And yes, they still work - but with a weaker signal.

[@Brickrider2]

Generally those should be HF (high frequency) antennas. In the military HF is 2 mHz - 30 mHz. GMRS is in the UHF range, 462.5625 mHz - 467.7250 mHz. Actual UHF band is 300 mHz - 3 gHz. Anyway, the antenna configuration you are talking about is a NVIS (near vertical incidence skywave) and really only works in the HF range not UHF. Depending on the frequency and time of day the HF signal will bounce off the ionosphere back to the surface allowing for good HF comms out to about 300 miles with no skip zone. I want to say it is also dependent on power out, but HF is finicky. Frequencies in the UHF range, like GMRS, will just pass right on through the ionosphere and you will be talking to the international space station.

[@neiljohnson6815]

Height is might! Mount the antenna as high as possible.

[@keithamdahl3948]

Height is trouble too... I've snapped plenty of antennas because of low branches.

[@moGear6253]

well i new about the steel deal, coil of cable i did not know or running near bat cables or led light bars,, im on the fence with GMRS , not sure witch way to go . AM/FM my use would be on the road camping getting road up dated or just yaking on the road .. iv hurd this GMRS is the up an comming thing thank you

[@johnsanchez1619]

Very thankful for this video. It was perfect and I am just now setting up GMRS comms in my rig, as well as Ham. Helpful!

[@joeallison2779]

Wow, another great video! Your videos keep getting better and better. Am very surprised you don’t have a lot more Subscribers. There’s a company out there that I think it’s called Bigfoot something or something Bigfoot that makes a bracket with antenna mounts on top that goes between your center high rear brake light and the cab wall of your truck. This allows you to route your antenna(s) wires through the headliner or down the back behind your rear seat and then bring it forward under the carpeting. I also remember seeing someone create a 90° adapter that mounts to that bracket that allows you to flip the antennas down when you’re going into tight spaces or storage like in your garage. Thank you again for this awesome video

[@Tsch6373]

Never heard you mention whether you matched any of your antennae. No mention of the SWR.

[@TylerOstergaard]

I cannot unsee this. why do you tuck your ears into your hat? Not trying to make fun just curious :)

[@idahocartel]

I’m proud ear under the hat tucker😎

[@OutdoorAuto]

My ears are really high on my head… had to show someone this the other day… they didn’t believe me until they saw what it looks like if I wear a hat normal 🤷‍♂️

[@TylerOstergaard]

@@OutdoorAuto totally makes sense thanks for the reply :)

[@resolutejku]

Same buddy. When you’ve got big ass ears you’ve gotta tuck them 😂

[@rbritt76]

your coax matters more i junked the midland rg58u coax for messi and poloni extraflex 7 and double my range on the same ant and radio

[@chadlowery1098]

To get a good ground to bare metal and prevent any rust, put a good blob of dielectric grease on all the bare metal surfaces and some rubber washers on either side of the hole. The grease will allow it to ground and prevent the oxidation and the washers will keep the grease from washing away as easily. You will have to periodically add more grease. How often you drive through heavy rains is going to determine how often, but I’d say add more once a month in really wet weather and every 3-6 weeks in drier climates.

[@EditEvidence]

coiling coax is harmless and might even help, as such coiling acts as an impedance on the unwanted outer-conductor outer-surface current, tending to bring the outer-conductor inner-surface & inner conductor currents into balance which would cancel coax radiation - although the effect might be over a relatively narrow frequency range. using ferrite would widen the bandwidth of this effect. the only problem with coiling coax is mechanical trouble if the loop is too tight. you'll see coax loops near the feedpoint of repeater antennas if you look around- the loops are being used for the equivalent of a ferrite effect. edit: of course nothing wrong with reducing coax length in order to reduce attenuation if you want.

[@apar1560]

Awesome info... BUT... Midland really LIKES their antennas. $$$ cha chinge 😮 Thanks, very informative. Great job 👏 ...Alan in 🇨🇱

[@OutdoorAuto]

Yeah, the bull bars are expensive... but that makes sense they have some crazy nice and expensive hardware with them... remember they also come with the cables.... a lot of antennas dont come with cables and mounts and look cheaper but really aren’t by the time you buy all that stuff. Their normal thin 6DB antenna is a great value.

[@T4RSR5]

Which 3db bull bar antenna do you use, the Highland or Canyon ?

[@josephmaniaci9782]

My Midland magnetic antenna mount is encapsulated in rubber on my roof. So how is that grounded?

[@keithamdahl3948]

Mag mount antennas are not physically grounded... that are capacitively coupled to ground. they need a large deck surface to work best. Mounting one on a narrow fender will cause the tunable bandwidth to become unreasonably narrow. The panel also helps to control the radiation angle for better performance. I repainted my truck and switched from a 5/8 wave mag mount to a motorized tip-over 1/4 wave so I can get into the garage without removing the antenna. I miss the mag mount's performance. However this is likely due to the better cable more than the antenna itself.

[@IDAHOverland]

Thank you so much for this video - I run Midland radios and have the same antenna 6db Midland antenna that you have been using. I've been wondering about the thick bull bar antennas and am glad that they are finally here :-). Question about the antenna cable - I was told they are a specific length to calibrate the frequency/wave length they use (so basically don't cut them unless you calculate the length to the wavelength). So, basically - can I cut my cable to the correct length and not worry about messing things up? Thanks again for all your videos. Hope to see you on the Idaho trails sometime...

[@OutdoorAuto]

I am fairly certain you can cut the cable as midland recommends on their own site that it is better to cut the cable then to tightly wind it up in itself.... but you can always check directly with midland... their support is pretty solid.

[@OutdoorAuto]

If you ever see me on the trails make sure and say hi 👋

[@Tsch6373]

The more coax (you're calling it 'cable') you have, the more signal loss. All of that coiled coax is not your friend. Match your antenna, using an SWR meter, then only use the amount of coax to reach your radio. Excess connecters also mean signal loss. Strive for the lowest SWR reading 1:1.

[@keithamdahl3948]

trying to create a standing wave by cable length is not very productive in this application. It has its place, but not for this. Best to keep the cable short as possible, minimal connections, and a quality cable designed for the frequency. (30Mhz CB cable may work, but isn't going to perform as well as a high quality cable like LMR400 in a UHF application)

[@AmericanFrontierLife]

Very useful information about the Db's. Glad I picked a 3Db one for the wooded NE regions we travel in.

[@edwardlemley5222]

Bumper mount will work ok. But an antenna on a through the roof mount in the center of the roof will perform the best. A 1/4 wave nmo on a through the roof mount will work way better than the bumper mount. But, each their own.

[@anorakadventures]

Some great tips here. I would love to see a comparison of like a fat stubby midland 3db in a ditch mount vs. A 3db bull bar in the woods. The stubby starts at a higher place, but the bull bar extends/reaches up higher at the top.

[@TheRealJimmy831]

where did you put the mxt575 at? I just got the MXT275 but trying to find a good spot to put it. Also want to hard wire it instead of using the cigerette port.

[@jamespease8269]

Why should you not have the mount above the roof line. That is counter to the first antenna tips which says "To maximize range, mount your antenna as high as possible"

[@keithamdahl3948]

Frequency is huge when this comes into play. Height is more critical for GMRS(FM @ 500MHz) than CB(SSB @ 30MHz), but in real-world performance you'll find it won't matter when you are stuck down in a valley anyway. If you're not stuck drive to the high point and don't worry about height on the vehicle.

[@CCWSig]

You mentioned some good points here, but that mounting location is terrible, especially with that antenna. That location creates a huge null in the antenna propogation. Being that close to the body of the truck is almost certainly causing a SWR issue as well.

[@inqufox1750]

Honestly woulda made the same mistake you made with the higher DB just thought "Bigger is better for everything" Never woulda thought (because smooth brain) That it changed depending on the terrain nor that the lower number would be good for high clutter area's good to know!

[@rebelpatriot_nc_9156]

Any chance you're going to make a patch from your logo?

[@OutdoorAuto]

I actually have them... right now I just sell hats with them... but working on some more options...

[@GhostSenshi]

Yea that’s a common misconception with radios is the watts. Watts give you the punch, but the antenna will get you the distance and quality more than radio power does, and placement matters just as much. I actually really enjoy my midland 32”. I hit our local repeater in the next city over from 40miles away as the crow flies, clear and full quiet

[@BigInjun05]

Why does everybody mount them up front?

[@keithamdahl3948]

visibility... Easier to see when you're going to snap off the antenna. LOL

[@BigInjun05]

@@keithamdahl3948 🤣🤣

[@NickWindham]

It also helps you see exactly where your bumper is when approaching objects.

[@keithamdahl3948]

You need to read the ARRL antenna manual. So much of what you have listed is not entirely accurate... study and learn. Then become a licensed Amateur Radio operator! the cost for licensing is less than a radio.

[@Boondocker99]

What about the watts on the radio? Is a 50 watt better than a 15 watt where there are obstructions like trees?

[@keithamdahl3948]

Not likely. GMRS is line of sight. get a hill or the curve of the earth and 1000w won't help. You can talk to satellites with only 5w and they're a long ways up.

[@nizarkailani6463]

Forget antennas . . wicked car !

[@TerraFirmaX]

Damn it, something else I gotta go buy now

[@stevenkhan4344]

I run my lights through the fire wall. If I run the Antenna wire through it it will cause interference when the lights are on

[@OutdoorAuto]

It will cause some interference... how bad will depend on the wire shielding... it could be very little... but you could also gets some noise. Id just experiment with it before you are super dependent on a clear signal.

[@stevenkhan4344]

@@OutdoorAuto I did my Tacoma and when my lights are on I get static on my midland GMRS radio

[@jfrphoto01]

@@stevenkhan4344 LED lights? There are kits available at most off-road and parts stores to remedy that problem.

[@stevecooper2873]

Good that you learned... good that you shared.

[@ericbaier]

Mounting your antenna that low on your bumper will cause the power from transmitting to be reflected back into the feed line and burn out your radio. Move it up to the hood line so it can get a good horizontal ground plane.

[@OutdoorAuto]

Oh man… I have so much more to learn. 🙏

[@Tsch6373]

That's the SWR he's talking about, yours has to be way off! And, no, it's not just a 'CB' thing, you need to match your antenna for the lowest SWR.

[@keithamdahl3948]

SWR must be matched no matter the location. However modern radios have self protection that will shut the Tx down in the event of high SWR. These are not the CBs from the 70s with susceptible transistor outputs.

[@reddhouse3702]

Can you have 2 antennas? ...w a switch?

[@torfinnpettersen2530]

yes you can

[@earlgeary8880]

I don’t know if it’s the same, but for CB we were always told with the extra cable link to make a loop and then put a zip tie in the middle to make that loop of figure 8. This may be all just mountain people superstition it is what we were taught.

[@keithamdahl3948]

that will keep the cable from kinking. A kink in a coax will disrupt the consistent impedance and mess with the expected SWR. Keeping a one way circular coil will produce an RF choke. However to be effective that choke must be sized to impede the interfering frequency. Look up the Coax Choke chart from the ARRL Antenna book. it will save a ton of math/calculation.

[@Mike___Kilo]

Get a full spectrum radio. In a pinch, you may need to transmit on otherwise unlicensed bands. Viz, Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton.

[@14usair]

Gota watch not a rubicon. The whole coiled cable thing makes marginal to no difference with the midland cables.

[@OutdoorAuto]

The cables are nicely shielded... but Midland themselves are the ones making that recommendation. 🤷‍♂️

[@14usair]

@@OutdoorAuto yeah its a best practice for sure. But in the testing done for midlands thiccer shielded cables specifically it appears not to be a huge issue. Just like a… hey the best way is dont coil. But if you have done.. honestly probably gunna be alright.

[@jfrphoto01]

@@OutdoorAuto Coiling the feedline (coax) does one thing and one thing only....induce a high impedance to any interference from engine, LED, etc noise and helps keep it from getting into the radio. It called a current balun (ugly balun) and does nothing to the RF power output or the VSWR.

[@dwightrhodes2051]

​@@jfrphoto01so which end is better to coil? The antenna end or radio end?

[@keithamdahl3948]

@@dwightrhodes2051 depends on what you're limiting. If you are stopping noise in the radio, do it at the radio end. If you have SWR issues, put the coil at the antenna end.

[@UDX-21]

I need to get a GMRS mobile and base unit. Thanks for the video. I hit the like and all your buttons. 1 S.C. Old Radio Night.

[@randymartin5521]

On newer vehicles you can't even see the firewall, let alone find an opening. Then there's the whole antenna tuning thing to contend with. Tuning the antenna for the lowest SWR on the frequency you use most often will get the best performance out of the antenna. A too high SWR can even damage your radio. For best performance over the entire band, picking the middle frequency and adjusting for the lowest SWR there should serve adequately across the entire GMRS band.

[@jgm113]

Not an issue on any Tacoma I've ever seen, maybe it's worse in a Jeep or Ford. SWR is a cb thing not really needed with GMRS

[@ricdonato4328]

SWR antenna tuning is more for CB radios than for GMRS. Midland claims their GMRS antennas are pre-tuned for Midland radios. Once a year I check my vehicle CB SWR, it has remained the same. My GMRS radios are all handheld (HT). Although I carry a GMRS in the vehical, for road travel I prefer the CB. Using GMRS on a road trip I have never heard road information as I do with my CB. When traveling with other folks GMRS/FRS is wonderful. Hand them an inexpensive FRS radio (they will not need a license as we do with GMRS) they are good to go. FRS and handheld GMRS radios can communicate with each other, but not with many GMRS mobile radios; it is an FCC thingy.

[@AdamOsPCT]

Hi, I'm wondering if someone could share info of this repeater somewhere in Baja when I'm heading down to Baja I would like to utilize it if it's available. How and where do I find it

[@thehickspanic8646]

Great job with all that info in short video time.

[@CharledKimble]

Just obtained my GMRS license and looking to order a mobile radio. My question is this, why are the antennas mounted on the front bumper? I know old school CB antennas was mounted on the rear bumpers. This would eliminate the worry about the battery cable interference. I'm not an off-roader, just communication with the family.

[@keithamdahl3948]

CBs mounted low due to the length of the antenna being an inconvenience. GMRS is a totally different beast. best to mount on a clear high point if it doesn't hit a garage door or anything else. GMRS is FM radio at a UHF frequency. It will be line of sight, blocked by hills and such. Ham 2m radio is better in hilly areas, but nothing like going full HAM HF setup. The drawback there is the family needs to be licensed individually. But, then you get some REAL range! :)

[@phillipsmith21]

To avoid rust when grounding get white lithium grease and coat the surface well.

[@OutdoorAuto]

I've got a bunch of that laying around.... would you say this works well for like a year... and re-apply... or years.

[@phillipsmith21]

That depends on how wet it stays. If you are just talking rain its good for years, if you ford water crossings regularly you'll need to reapply about every six months.

[@timmturner]

So instead of breaking your antenna, you break your blinker or marker light

[@OutdoorAuto]

I think the goal is all of them are strong enough to not break 🤷‍♂️

[@EverettVinzant]

I’m not sure where you got the information about dB having to do with terrain… A 3dB antenna is going to give you approximately (in capitals) double the peak envelope power. A 6dB antenna would double it again. So if you are transmitting 5 watts of power into a 3dB antenna, that’s just like transmitting with 10 watts, regardless of the terrain. However, there can be some reflection, refraction, and absorption based on terrain. If you are in a coniferous forest (pine, spruce, etc) you would do better using UHF (GMRS). If you are in a deciduous forest (Maple, Aspen, etc) you would do better using VHF (MURS). The leaves on deciduous trees act like little mirrors for UHF/SHF/Microwave signals. Frequency matters when considering dispersion in terrain, not gain. Why do I know this? I did Radio Repair in the Army and am currently an amateur radio operator. I’ve built radios, and could demonstrate this to you to your satisfaction.

[@bhagmeister]

No ‘noise cancelling’ speaker can mitigate a poor (high loss/high noise) RF chain.

[@larryjanson4011]

as to a ground. use a washer, sodder a 12 gauge or larger pure copper weave to it. the other end again a washer soldered to it, and bolt that end to the body out of harms way. and paint over it for rust proofing. ( length of the ground strap should be kept short as possible). never trust nuts- n -bolts or screws to be your ground. if you really want to go crazy braze on some copper on a area for the body ground, gold would be far better but cost a wee bit more.

[@Macjohn1419]

Coiling antenna cable is a good idea because it acts like a choke to prevent stray RF coming back into the vehicle or shack and messing things up especially with computers. I don’t know who started the rumor that coiling cable is not good.

[@BubbaJazzy]

It’s actually supposed to be wrapped up in a figure 8 configuration

[@keithamdahl3948]

@@BubbaJazzy that will help prevent kinks, but counteracts the impedance effect that makes the choke stop RF from following the cable. Kinks can cause a whole other pile of Tx issues.

[@leerb44]

Diesel with dual batteries it is going to be hard for me to keep the cable away from my batteries.

[@keithamdahl3948]

the batteries won't bother the cable at all. should avoid the alternator though. (and ignition coils on a gas truck)

[@WesWilliams1975]

In theory, every 3db of gain doubles the power of your radio. So a 50watt radio with a 3db antenna = 100watt... 6db antenna =200watt equivalent... It doesn't physically increased the wattage from your radio it just makes it the equivalent of. That's why antenna is the most important part.

[@karinchaney101]

I am going to learn from you. Thank you

[@bhamptonkc7]

Sail boats use 3db antennas so when they are healed over they are not putting there radio energy into the water one side and the sky on the other.

[@keithamdahl3948]

as an antenna approaches the "ground plane" the radiation pattern is distorted. at this much lean, the antenna radiation pattern will change from horizontal to practically vertical anyway.

[@HippocratesGarden]

Imagine if there were a large group of people in the country with knowledge of this topic.. oh wait.. Ham Radio Operators?

[@OutdoorAuto]

Ham radio guys always give off-roaders advice that isn’t useful… for example they tell me I’m an idiot if I don’t put my antenna anywhere other than my roof… I tell them I’d prefer to HAVE an antenna in a less then perfect location rather then have a broken antenna… we aren’t trying to talk across the country… we are talking to our friends that are usually within a couple miles… so yeah I agree with you, but have yet to run into any ham people that aren’t sarcastic and unhelpful, like you…

[@jar407]

btw the labels on frs and gmres sold in blister packs the 25-35 and i saw one 50 miles are lies there good little radios but to get 25 each person would have to both be on top floor of 2 buildings with no obstructions and best over salt water and even then i doubt more than 5 miles but around trails or in shopping malls excellent even from parking lot in car to inside store i used to use then for. remember though to use gmres you or family need a fcc license last i heard 85 bucks for 10 yrs covers the whole family or hobby group some restrictions and very high financial forfeitures for unlicensed if caught fcc don't say fine but its the same thing they catch you you send them substantial cash

[@JohnJames-xj7df]

Thanks a lot.

[@EnufIsTooMuch]

The best dB rating is always going to be the highest no matter the terrain. The best location for an antenna to get its best possible performance is the center of the roof. After that, all other locations are compromises. The worst place is always going to be the lowest mounting point on a vehicle. I used Wilson antennas for many years in Amateur Radio and Search & Rescue. Those antennas have a rubber ring around the base coil. I would sand off paint to bare metal and never experienced rust or water under the antenna. This was on the camper shell roof of a 4x4 pickup with eight antennas on it in two rows. To have enough strength to hold antennas in the aluminum roof I used two lengths of Jeep floor repair steel channels that actually held the antennas.

[@OutdoorAuto]

Antenna purest always fail to understand the the "BEST" mounting spot is where your antenna doesn't get broken every time I go on a compact trail and it still does the job I need it to.... If I had a nickel for every person that tells me to stick an antenna on top of my truck where it would get broken off every time just driving to the cabin... the point of the video is to help people that off-road avoid unnecessary signal issues... not to tell the a completely irrelevant "perfect" setup that none of us can actually do...

[@overlandtowater]

I bought the ghost antenna and it arrived the same day @Midlandusa released the new bull bar antennas.....I was quite sad about that.

[@OutdoorAuto]

Bummer

[@IndependenceOverland]

Very useful info, I learned a lot thanks man!

[@SoulRoadFL]

Great vid!

[@sofjanmustopoh7232]

Nah ! A 1/4 wave antenna on top of your roof rack would outperform ANY of your heavy duty high gain antenna mounted on the bull bar . You cannot overcome line of sight using high gain antenna mounted low to the ground . Vs 1/4 wave antenna as high as possible .

[@keithamdahl3948]

A high mounted 1/4 wave wont perform when the garage door shears it off the roof. LOL Every antenna is a compromise. pick your battles and go for a win. (sometimes people just want the look)

[@sofjanmustopoh7232]

@@keithamdahl3948 It would still perform better until you shear it off.

[@toddjenest3212]

Why can't the antenna extend over the roof of your vehicle?

[@NickWindham]

It can. I mount my 6 dB springy wire MXTA26 on the roof of my car and it works well. In the middle of a metal car roof is the optimal mount location for signal purposes. I think on the biggest two antennas they just don’t want you hitting things with it. Especially the 7 dB model that doesn’t have a springy base.

[@NemoOhd20]

Antenna PLACEMENT is far more important than watts from the radio or the db of the antenna.

[@RFMaster6]

If you put your antenna in the center of the roof on the vehicle, and grounded to the body or frame, you will stand a better chance of not breaking it.

[@sleeve8651]

Since we drive on the Right side of the road in America, wouldn't it be a better idea to mount your antenna towards the Drivers side, as to try and avoid low hanging limbs and branches next to the road ? Too, these weird placements of antennas, with regards to locations on a vehicle may work for fairly close mobile to mobile work, but for further distance's, like working a distant repeater, you may find your antenna has become somewhat directional ! A good thing to know, should you have an emergency, and need the best comms you can get ! Too, placing an antenna in close proximity to metal, very likely will cause undesirable performance, as well as being damaging to the radio's transmitter ! Antennas should be checked for SWR ! Which essentially is a mismatch in the antenna sytem, and will lead to less than optimal performance ! To test for directivity, find a known fixed Base station, or even someone with a walkie talkie, and drive some distance away, then try and find a location away from obstructions, especially metal, overhead wires,etc. ! Then drive your vehicle in a circle, as best you can, while observing the Signal strength meter on your radio ! And, or get reception reports from the fixed station ! Obviously watching for the direction off the vehicle, that provides the best signal to noise ratio ! Depending where your antenna is mounted, will likely dictate what direction your signal will be strongest ! Typically, the radio signal from your antenna, will follow ground. Meaning, an antenna mounted on the Left rear of a vehicle, as an example, will transmit and typically receive best, off the Right front of the vehicle ! Obviously, the larger the vehicle, the more surface offered, and the more directional ! Granted, GMRS Frequencies are such that they are know as, " Line of Sight " ! Pretty self-explanatory ! In a straight line away from the antenna ! Not to say they cannot be acted upon by atmospheric conditions ! Extending the usable range many miles, not typically offered ! By following these few simple tips, you will likely have communications that you hoped for ! I hope someone found this helpful ! Be safe ! 👍😉

[@dafunkmonster]

Offroad trails are often only wide enough for a single vehicle to pass. The branches are a problem on both sides of the road.

[@sleeve8651]

@dafunkmonster Well that is why, if you have ever noticed, in Africa as an example, where Bush vehicles have that same type of environment, they many times will mouth their antennas in the front center of the bumper ! Obviously, every situation warrants your own discretion ! To if you're only hoping to communicate to another vehicle on a trail, much smaller antennas can be implemented successfully ! There again, keeping in mind to keep the Standing Wave as low as possible, to keep the transmitter happy ! Else it won't be long, and you'll be talking to yourself ! 😳

[@donriddle8393]

TY

[@sammas7440]

Very good video from the radio layman. I've seen videos from radio engineers (esp the Ham radio guys) and some want to tell you how the electron flow, rather than give a solution to the problem.

[@rockhaller]

Coiling the coax makes a RF choke

[@hnd1776]

Im usually outdoors when im in my truck.