You Need A Precision Espresso Basket, But Which One?

[@homecafecharlie]

Thanks so much for watching! If you want to support my channel you can buy my book (it's awesome): shop.homecafebycharlie.com/

[@noyb-yb]

Great video, thank you. I own Pesado HE[%] basket with matching Pesado naked/bottomless portafilter as well as the Pesado 1.9mm puck screen (I do not use puck-screen regularly but it works!). I used to use VST basket for last 10 years with very good results. What I have noticed is this: using Pesado HE[%] basket and other similar HE/HY baskets with a lot of holes and more holes area is that they extract espresso faster. Therefore they do not need the traditional extraction time of 30 seconds which traditional baskets do need. So you get a similar or better espresso from Pesado HE in ~22-25 seconds than you get from VST/IMS/Pullman in ~30 seconds, for the same dose. You do need to grind a little finer for the HE/HY baskets though, else you get a "turbo-shot" of 15-19 seconds which is likely to be under-extracted. The puck prep is otherwise identical i.e. WDT, etc.

[@hamwaha]

1:52 don’t finer particles have more surface area and extract slower compared to the same mass with a larger particle size?

[@homecafecharlie]

You're right, smaller grind particles have a larger surface area relative to their weight. So for a finer grind size, which you need to do to get a good extraction in a precision basket, it will have a larger surface area, so it is a more complete extraction of the grinds, which leads to a higher extraction percentage. It's possible to get overextracted this way, but for espresso since the total volume is low I find it almost impossible to overextract a coffee that is ground and distributed correctly. If you're not channelling and getting a good extraction timing in a standard 1:2 ratio shot, I don't think the equipment exists yet to overextract that coffee. ;)

[@appelsenperenboom]

Its insane how much effort you put into this video

[@scider2]

Have you mixed up some baskets? When you talk about the Koncentra at 5:10 you say it has 21,47%, but in your tables the Koncentra has 20,91%.

[@homecafecharlie]

Thanks for spotting! The table is correct, I must have made a mistake in editing.

[@scider2]

@@homecafecharlie I guessed it was that way too. And it is still the Koncentra you favor among the cheaper ones?

[@homecafecharlie]

@@scider2 Yes, I thought it had a really nice flavour profile!

[@maxb5947]

overall, which basket is the best for flair 58 fellas?

[@TheArgetho]

I have Pesado and Big Bang. Both always have < 21%. Only problem is Magnetic Dosing Ring can not stick to Pesado Filter.

[@koffe1298]

I do also have an Pesado HE 58,5 L basket and i got a magnetic dosing ring that sticks really well to it, its awesome 😁

[@filldemontgat]

@@koffe1298 Please...which dosing ring do you have? 🙏

[@talnanus8583]

I also have the Oscar II machine, regarding the pesado, how come a 58.5 mm gasket fits a 58 mm portafilter?

[@willjuppdrums]

Really great video! Glad you went for this price range as well! Quick question, do you recommend going for a larger sized basket if using a puck screen?

[@homecafecharlie]

Thank you! I wouldn't say it makes much difference. I usually go for an 18g or 20g basket. Bigger or smaller ones are really just for bigger or smaller shots. If you want a 24g:48g in to out. Go for it, but for me it's overkill and too many variables to mess with.

[@willjuppdrums]

@@homecafecharlie interesting! Thanks for the reply! My thinking is that the thickness of the puck screen changes the headspace by around 2mm depending on the puck screen. I don't know if it's best to have a headspace above the puck screen or whether the puck screen acts as the headspace? Probably overthinking it hahaha!

[@chris9923]

Hey Charlie. Wondering how you're getting on with the Pesado on the Flair 58 after a bit more time? That's what I'd be buying the basket to use with. Thanks!

[@homecafecharlie]

I don't usually use my pesado basket on the flair for one main reason and that is that the basket can sometimes get stuck because of the shape and size of the group. Still like both of them, and it works just sometimes you'll have to pry the pesado basket out as it won't come out with the portafilter.

[@chris9923]

@@homecafecharlie Ah, that's to know it wasn't a short term issue. Thank you. Can I ask what your go to basket is for the Flair please? I'm using a Philos and most coffee is in the light to medium roast, as espresso - I'm keen to try a high extraction basket and compare it with my normal VST.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

A lot of those look like knock-offs of the much more expensive and likely higher quality Sworks and Wafo baskets, like the Kafmasino Impeta is a lot like the Sworks Citrus Slice basket. I'm not a huge fan of the company, but the Weber workshops unifilter basket is about the same price maybe a little more than the Pesado HE, originally the Unibasket was more expensive, they dropped the price supposedly when they switched to an more efficient manufacturing process. Weber does tend to over-charge for shipping though depending on where you live. You say you're not sure about the claims they make about these baskets, but you did notice the Impeta that has a citrus slice look to it, brought out more acidity! Which if you look at Sworks site, on their original designed Citrus basket, they describe it as doing JUST THAT (which I thought might have been nonsense just because how it looked coincidentally correlated with how it tasted!?) I tried the Normcore version of the Wafo Spirit, it's like a bad knock off, it bends / deforms so much the coffee comes out convex/concave. I also didn't like the results, felt like something was missing from the coffee, maybe the holes were way too large and flow rates were too high on that one, it needed a very fine grind size. Similarly didn't love the IMS Big Bang basket but at least they were original with that one, some people seem to love it. I forget why but I remember just not being too impressed. Not sure I like the idea of controlled channeling, I think it's going to give you a more uneven extraction and is counter-intuitive. I actually think stock baskets (especially the tapered edge ones) are good for easier nicer looking extractions and if you want easier less channely espresso (great for starting out) The older upgraded precision baskets (not special high extracting or weird design ones) by VST and IMS I found were more finicky and often resulted in more channeling, it had a higher clarity, higher extraction vs stock baskets but you also have less room for error, so higher potential to make a great coffee but I found often it might give me a worse coffee. Stock baskets give you more body, more blended flavours generally, also better not amazing coffee, and most medium or darker roasts as a result! The Weber basket I actually expected it to be even more finicky than IMS or VST but I found it to be very forgiving, vs Pullman / Decent / VST type regular precision baskets, I get a higher success rate and more flavour clarity and punch which I believe is due to higher extractions, without the coffee being too intense, not bitter or sour usually, just stronger flavour. I haven't tried the Pesado or other high extracting baskets really to compare but I'm happy with the Weber basket for now. One downside of the higher extracting baskets is that they're usually thicker metal so coffee particles get stuck in the holes and is harder to clean out, so it's best to always use a bottom paper filter with them. Also helps with knocking the pucks out.

[@levainqueur9095]

What size pesado basket are you using?

[@homecafecharlie]

58mm with the 18g basket

[@levainqueur9095]

@ Thank you!

[@adamscoffeeeglasgow]

Great video Charlie. I've neen loving the pesado high EY basket

[@homecafecharlie]

Thanks! It's a beast 😎

[@DoreK]

Hi, I currently have DEX in 15g and 18g. I recently ordered IMS B702TH24.5M because of its different, rounded shape. However, it has significantly fewer holes than DEX. I'm also waiting for BEP 2.0. What do you think about this IMS basket? Have you tested it?

[@whoami724y]

How are the BEP and DEX so far? I'm only interested in how both are durable to deformation? Because the stock basket comes with the espresso machine will always be deformed whenever i pull a shot

[@DoreK]

@@whoami724y it's very durable, stainless steel. Honestly one of the best baskets on the market in this price. BEP has more sweet flavour but it's really hard to clean. DEX is more neutral and very easy to clean and daily use.

[@utiuandy99]

I can see that in your graph you have a varying number of time for extraction. Wouldn’t that influence the TDS and so the extraction % ?

[@homecafecharlie]

The time is less important since the grind settings are the same, the main thing is output weight which I tried to keep as close to 1:2 ratio as possible. Without an advanced machine like a Decent this is as close as I could get. It might influence the results a little bit but we're talking a tiny fraction of a %. I also taste tested. Like I said at the end the differences are less clear than manufacturers say, but all of them were significantly better than stock, so basically you should get one cos the stock is bad 🤣

[@utiuandy99]

@@homecafecharlie I have a vst and a Mhw Dex and I prefer the DEX.

[@greysuit17]

Pesado basket has been pretty stellar for me!

[@levainqueur9095]

What size pesado basket are you using?

[@greysuit17]

@ medium 17g with paper filter on bottom and puck diffuser screen on top. I’ll use a thinner diffuser screen if I want to use 18-20g. So far I am finding more grinds to be unnecessary.

[@levainqueur9095]

@ Thank you!

[@greysuit17]

@@levainqueur9095 welcome

[@ishantsingh3366]

Very honest review...thanks a lot for making this video!! I agree precision baskets are definitely an upgrade in the espresso game but comparing each one minutely is kinda insane and unreasonable, given the spectrum of coffee and coffee drinkers is too wide to be generalised

[@homecafecharlie]

I agree, it isn't really possible. Too many variables especially with the equipment an average coffee person has. In short, just buy any PF basket you like. They are all much better than stock!

[@FatNorthernBigot]

I tried the "DEX" from MHW3 and couldn't get a consistent shot, no matter what grind setting I used. However, this video has inspired me to give it another go. I was using a dark roast, before, which wasn't the freshest I've tried. I have a 10-day-old medium roast which I will try, later. Thanks for the video 👍

[@homecafecharlie]

Good luck with it! It's definitely better than stock 😉

[@haziqshams]

I have the 18g DEX. Using it everyday. Definitely better than stock basket. Shots were more complex, more flavour notes brought out. You should definitely have another go!

[@FatNorthernBigot]

@@haziqshams I've taken the plunge and ordered the Pasado. I'll let you know how I get on.

[@RiotBike]

I struggled with my DEX and VST baskets but it turns out that my Lelit Fred grinder wasn’t up to the job. Upgraded to e better grinder and I’m really happy with the DEX

[@FatNorthernBigot]

@@RiotBike I think my issue was probably the beans. They weren't fresh. I'm very happy with my DF83.

[@Cenot4ph]

IMS and Pullman is what I use, good enough

[@madskongensgaard1066]

Nice video. So crazy how many basket designs have flooded the market. When is "very soon" regarding the Philos? That's very, very intersting to hear your take on.

[@homecafecharlie]

Just gotta switch the burrs and test the other set for a few weeks before I render my final verdict. So far it's great, but certainly not perfect (nothing is)

[@hbr6545]

I'm stuck between two IMS baskets for my Delongi Dedica 51mm. The main difference is the ammount of coffe they can hold: H22 can hold from 12g - 14g while the H24 range from 14g - 16g. Which would you advice for making expresso only on this machine?

[@homecafecharlie]

I don't know about the Delonghi, but go with the one you want. You want more coffee, get the bigger one 😉

[@someguy9520]

Go for the h24 one The h22 can be a bit too small when you happen to have some low density dark roasts at home for 14g doses

[@CoreProject05]

normcorewares has a new pvd coated HE basket. Worth a try, for me it was a middle ground between a VST and a Pesado w/o the clogging holes of the pesado :)

[@homecafecharlie]

So many baskets! I have to try it 😝

[@CoreProject05]

@@homecafecharlie totally! :D

[@bluemystic7501]

A tapered IMS basket came with my machine and I'm afraid to try anything else. It's just too good.

[@homecafecharlie]

Try something else. Go on, I dare ya! 😏

[@cgomezmoreno]

Great video, @homecafecharlie ! I'm sure not all stock baskets are created equal. Was this test with the Nuova Simonelli stock? I know you have an Silvia Pro X and I thought that came with IMS made stock baskets.

[@homecafecharlie]

I don't have the pro X anymore unfortunately, I had to sell it when I left Japan (wrong voltage for UK and shipping would have been expensive). But yes not all stock baskets are made equal - it's about the number and pattern of holes, but most stock baskets are similar and can't hold a candle to most precision baskets

[@PaoloItaliano-k9v]

Unfortunately Pesado basket doesn’t fit to SAGE/Breville Oracle

[@homecafecharlie]

I think they have a 54mm one now don't they?

[@PaoloItaliano-k9v]

I meant that 58mm doesn’t fit to Breville oracle. There is 58mm portafilter group

[@homecafecharlie]

@@PaoloItaliano-k9v Oh I see. I didn't know that. Yeah I think they should standardise the basket fit, and like I said it got stuck in my Flair so I haven't used it for that since. If it fits, it's a killer basket, but it's a shame that it doesn't universally fit

[@PaoloItaliano-k9v]

My next coffee machine will be lever. There are only 2 top lever machine on the market: La Marzocco Leva X and Kees van der Westen Spiritello. The last one is just too expensive 😢

[@BBxx19]

I strongly disagree with the idea or lets say the message that higher extraction is better. Most people who get new into espresso probably do so because they enjoy classic espresso. The taste for specialty espresso develops over time, if at all. People will buy these baskets and will get terrible results with darker/classic espresso roasts because the “higher is better” only applies to a lighter roasted espressos. This should at least be mentioned because the message here is clearly: “buy these and you will get higher extracted better tasting espresso”.

[@homecafecharlie]

Even for medium espresso these are great. If you like dark roasted beans you're probably not into speciality coffee and won't be watching a video about how to improve your coffee. The improvements have come in the past 10 years and if you're still making Italian espresso you probably don't care about new tools

[@BBxx19]

@@homecafecharlie that is unfortunately not true because anybody who tries to make better coffee will land on these sorts of videos since they dominate KZbin. This applies to the majority of people who drink dark roast as well. At least some sort of a disclaimer would be great as to not confuse people with such claims since they will waste so much money on equipment that will not really help them.

[@dnullify100]

Pesado US has $20 shipping for under $100... And nothing else i want to buy to make up the difference. $78 shipped is rough. No apparent US distributer too. I'm not sure why pesaso USA is charging $20 for shipping a single basket other than upsell or margin padding.

[@paul--b]

Lance has said something to the effect of paper filters give you around 90% of the precision basket benefit. And, there is the added benefit of pucks coming out very clean, and no holes being clogged. It would be interesting to see how these baskets perform with paper filters VS a VST with paper filter.

[@Trenckyherbs]

Potentially the additional benefit of lowering serum cholesterol from the paper filter too.

[@paul--b]

@@Trenckyherbs yes, but isn't dietary cholesterol proven to not be correlated with serum cholesterol?

[@Trenckyherbs]

@@paul--b it’s much less significant than saturated fat. It might depend on whether you’re a hyper absorber of cholesterol or not (like with eggs on serum LDL). The literature does show some correlation with unfiltered coffee on higher LDL compared to paper filter. It’d be great to see a study to control for it. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to use paper for the benefits you mentioned already and retest my ApoB.

[@chongliangooi9801]

Please review the IMS E&B All in One basket too 😊

[@KTOWNK1D]

I have both the Pesado and Weber Workshops baskets and frankly, the Weber leaves little to be desired. I called BS on Weber a long time ago. While I do live the EG1 and the Moonraker (which many would call BS on as well), the precision baskets aren't anything to go out and get if you can get your hands on the Pesado baskets.

[@homecafecharlie]

The Pesado one is great. Really enjoying the espresso out of it particularly with light roasts

[@elromulous]

Small nit "leaves little to be desired" means the opposite! It means it satisfies so many desires that there are few left!

[@RonDevito]

Well... it's the reverse for me. I have VST baskets and my coffee is ground extremely fine. With the VST the machine does not develop 9 bars. When I use cheapo ridged baskets that taper at the bottom, the machine works better and pulls better shots. The cheapies are "Brewvana" I got on Amazon for $7. Machine is a Turin Capriccio and the grinder is a Eureka La Specialita, so I'm working with good equipment. My machine just doesn't like the straight-wall baskets for some reason. Go figure. Do whatever works.

[@Yirgamalabar]

Maybe your Eureka needs burr alightment if it can't choke your machine with all baskets.

[@homecafecharlie]

Yeah that's not a bad grinder so it doesn't make sense that you can't grind fine enough for the basket. Your burrs might be misaligned so you get channelling when you go finer. Worth doing a burr alignment test. If that's what it is, then forget baskets, you'll get immediately better coffee from the grinder being properly adjusted.

[@utiuandy99]

You don’t need to hit nine bars as long as the shot a decent time

[@Cenot4ph]

Grinder issue, if you can't choke the machine with a precision basket something is not right

[@wakeawaken430]

It's a pity that VST is out of the game

[@paul--b]

They still make baskets right? Maybe they are developing some new ones.

[@bluemystic7501]

According to the Wired Gormet, VST baskets aren't great.

[@wakeawaken430]

@@bluemystic7501 who cares what he thinks

[@bluemystic7501]

@@wakeawaken430 Well he shows the baskets under a microscope and they look like trash. Check out his video.

[@wakeawaken430]

@@bluemystic7501 I checked also mine and it was more than good Also, they are the founders, we must show respect

[@The_Coffee_Rabbit_Hole]

the mhw BEP 2.0 is much better than the DEX for like the same price

[@homecafecharlie]

I should have bought some for this video but I already spent a few hundred on it and there are always more baskets 😅

[@The_Coffee_Rabbit_Hole]

@@homecafecharlie yes i understand but the DEX are a very old model from mhw , after that they got the BEP out and it was nice but had some flaws and the got the BEP v2 out few months ago and its very hard to beat for the price . Even few weeks ago they had 15g BEP v2 for sale that look very interesting too

[@scotmac5529]

Sitting here figuring out how I am going to afford an espresso machine under 500 that will produce decent coffee and notice the grinder alone cost about 1500. :( Thank you for an informative video.

[@MrChocoblock]

If you’re able to/ willing to, I’d suggest a hand grinder. They’re far more bang for your buck. I use the 1ZPresso- JX-Pro and get decent extractions in a 58mm portafilter. It is a little dicey dialling in sometimes because of the adjustments, but it can make a decent cup. There are better hand grinders/ more effective for espresso than I have though. My MiiCoffee Apex (aka Turin Legato) + grinder was under 800 all in

[@ericherrero3212]

I know it's a bit old but get a flair classic and a good hand grinder.

[@pepticon]

it's doable, especially if you have a bit of electronics skills. get used gaggia classic, and added gaggiuno mods by yourself. you should be able to do it under $500. and for the grinder, get 1zpresso J-max, should be a bit less than $200.

[@battousaihimura]

Flair Pro 3 and a Varia VS 3. Trust me, you will get everything you need! Speaking from someone who owns both a semi-automatic and manual espresso machine, they are equally good. If you want to upgrade, the Flair 58 allows you to collect E61 group head-based accessories, which you could also use for E61 machines.

[@CMK-Security]

DeLonghi Dedica with a good bottomless basket gets you into the Game. For the Grinder use a Hibrew G5.

[@ColdCoffeePhotography]

The main downside with the Pesado is the ridiculous £20 shipping charge 😠

[@homecafecharlie]

Check local distributors. In the UK I picked one up from Functional Accessories and the shipping wasn't too bad from what I remember

[@ColdCoffeePhotography]

@@homecafecharlie Thanks for the tip, £3 postage is a hellva lot better :)

[@TheAllMightyGodofCod]

So, Baristas are the new audiophiles?

[@amike9000]

Lol

[@SuperSdbaby]

$35 dollars shipping!😳 Not today, not tomorrow.🤬

[@homecafecharlie]

Check local distributors. I got my Pesado HE in the UK from Functional Accessories and the shipping wasn't much. Not sure who the distributors in the US are, but worth checking cos it'll be cheaper for shipping

[@WhyDoYouCare6503]

”Today is the day. NOT tomorrow but today.” -Kamala-🤣😂😂

[@SpacemanGrechko]

As long as you don't do blind tastings, everything you say is just a matter of taste

[@parcomolo256]

very annoying background "music"

[@matthewhoffman6868]

I find it unlikely that no one submitted a question about Brexit. It is irresponsible not to talk about Tory responsibility for this generally agreed mistake and what to do now to remedy it.

[@calangolima]

Why did you test TWO Dex basket e none of the BEP baskets from 3bomber? 🥲😐

[@homecafecharlie]

Lol they came out after I got the DEX ones. I already spent quite a bit on this video and there are more baskets coming out all the time