Is The Mazzer Philos Really That Good?

[@homecafecharlie]

Thanks so much for watching! If you want to see more about The Brew Ledger, my upcoming journal for espresso-lovers, check it out here: bit.ly/3VlXExb

[@brmbltbr4]

Finally a grinder with pre-seasoned burrs... that really is quite amazing.

[@homecafecharlie]

It should be standard but almost nobody does it. Makes a huge difference having reliable burrs from day one!

[@chris9923]

I bought one following your helpful response to my query on one of your other videos that had the Philos in the background. I'm really enjoying it with the 189d burrs you recommended! Thanks!

[@homecafecharlie]

Nice, great choice!

[@JeepBigE]

I've been using my Philos for a couple months. It's definitely not a slow grinder, not even close. I found that changing burrs was very easy. I like the grind adjustment ring and it's easy to make adjustments with one hand. It's definitely a quality stout build.

[@cybernessful]

He just doesn't understand how grinders work.

[@leonarodoaviation]

This channel is about to blow up. This is above excellent quality.

[@tomsgrinderlab]

Fabulous review, thanks Charlie!

[@barrett14]

Do you prefer the Philos or the DF83V? I mostly do espresso but I am interested in trying filter in the future.

[@buffamous]

Is this a significant upgrade over the DF64 gen2 in terms of taste? Or would the DF83v be a better purchase?

[@珍娜驕傲多]

Thank you,Its Very helpful. Especially to know such specific information before I plan to buy it.

[@MW-df2fm]

Would love to see a comparison between the Philos and df 83V - as those are pretty in the same price point and seem to be same size.

[@homecafecharlie]

@@MW-df2fm similar size but the 83v has much bigger burrs. I'll have a video up soon and will probably do a comparison video next month after my Varia VS6 review (also a strong contender)

[@MW-df2fm]

@@homecafecharlie yes, with the 83 burrs in mind for a lower price then the Philos. I am keen to know if the built quality seriously is such a big advantage of the philis over the speed, less noise and variable rpm of the df 83 in comparison.

[@SetaRossa83]

Very detailed review, thank you so much, you've been helpful for my choice

[@gregorio5543]

Probably would’ve gotten this when I switched from Niche Zero to DF84. Prebreakers, pre seasoned, and alignment takes a lot of guess work and is really nice. Even if it cost more

[@nittygritty7434]

H.B. review noted the burrs work better for specific coffee namely i200D turn acidic-light roast coffees more 'sweet' w/clarity while the i189D turn 'roasty'-darker roast coffees rich; balanced & 'sweet' but if try med-dark; dark roast coffees on the i200D they became muted & bland etc.. Second I sway back and forth regarding the DF83V due to uncertainty about it's grind adjustment- repeatability or consistency. Few or none talk about this. Sure one thing to get random good; great coffee but is it repeatable and consistent day after day then add in switching beans..? The high end 64mm [Zerno, P64 and probably Philos] seem to be way more consistent but is it worth to spend for the smaller burr size- will the user regret the maybe 10-15% better tasting coffee from min. 83mm? I feel like DF keeps missing opportunities every new model has major quirks- they need to just stick with one design but perfect it then charge $150-$250 more.

[@robertebob]

i wound up ordering a Zerno due December '24. I did consider the Mazzer carefully, but the Zerno seemed more idiot proof and also has blind burr set options that can easily be changed. i got ssp hu.

[@orbit354]

The zerno is definitely the more attractive and probably also capable grinder. Blind Burrs are great! You’re going to wait a long time though and support and longevity is probably better with the philos

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

"idiot proof"? What machine could be more idiot proof it has a single on / off switch and a dial to adjust grind size. Best grinder ive owned so far. Not sure how anything else could be more idiot proof!

[@billhendrix4125]

Seems many are moving to single dosing. I was thinking about the df83v if I go single dosing, but now maybe this grinder, or something like the all ground sense or atom w 65 or libra if I stick to hopper fed. I do want a really quiet grinder too though. How loud would you say this grinder is? My Baratza 270wi is ok, but is just so dang loud.

[@5333092]

Makes me feel you havent tested a Niche Zero before... if you do, how does it compare?

[@karasong7701]

Good day! I'm sorry to bug you about comparisons. I'm curious to know what you think of this compared to the DF83V.

[@homecafecharlie]

You'll see soon, working on my DF83V video when I get back. It's a longer term one cos I've been using it on and off for 6 months nearly!

[@karasong7701]

@@homecafecharlie nice! I've been fighting with my brain lately on which one to get. I'm like, "should I wait for the Philos to be available in the Philippines, or should I buy the cheaper, bigger burrs, readily available, variable RPM, but made in China DF83V?"

[@Lerdes]

Thank very much for the detailed review. I only drink straight espresso. I don't have the experience of different roasts and how they compere for my taste but i want to taste them in the future. Do you think that I189D burrs are better for me? I know it may be difficult for to answer this for me but i would really appreciate your help.

[@homecafecharlie]

Hard to know but I think the average person would likely prefer the 189D burrs for espresso

[@Lerdes]

Can we also drink light roast with them or do we need a different burr set?

[@orbit354]

@@Lerdes200d are better for light roasts and filter coffee for sure. You’re not going to get the clarity and fruity notes out of the 189d. If you prefer darker roasts and chocolaty notes with more body, go for the 189d! If you prefer more clarity, less body and fruity/ light espressos and/or filter coffee, go for the 200d

[@Lerdes]

I bought the df64 gen 2 and a profitec go. I hope I did a good choice. Thank you for your advice.​@@orbit354

[@greysuit17]

I dont think you can over extract a French Press. At a certain point the coffee will be as extracted as it can get…you can’t pull more out. It is what it is. The simple way to test this is cupping. 4 minutes to infinity the coffee does not get stronger or more bitter. Flavors change because of our perception of flavor at different temps but the coffee doesn’t over extract, it can’t.

[@Doughny]

Great review. I have this grinder on my shortlist. I'm a filter first, espresso second person. One day I'd like two electric grinders; one for espresso and one for filter. Since this will be my very first electric grinder and I mainly drink pour-over I want a pour-over burr first, which seems to be the 200d. I see that reviewed a 1Zpresso handgrinder in the past. Do you think there's a big difference between the 200d and 1zpresso for espresso? I'm asking because I currently own a 1zpresso and I'm very happy with my espresso results. If the 200d would come close to that I'd already be happy.

[@orbit354]

Which 1zpresso do you have? There are a lot of different grinders with different burrs. 200d seam to be great for medium(probably also medium dark) to light roasts with fruity notes, more clarity etc. If you prefer dark or even italian roasts the 200d are not going to give you enough body. 189d are not good for filter though. Depends on your 1zpresso but the 200d is definitely great for espresso as well. You can buy the other burrs soon and try them out. They‘re „only“ around a hundred bucks and you can sell the ones you like less

[@Doughny]

@@orbit354 Hey thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it. I have a 1zpresso k-max. I do know you can switch the burr. I do see myself try out different burrs but not immediately. I exclusively drink lightroast when it comes to filter, and medium to medium dark with espresso.

[@orbit354]

@@Doughny With the k-max you can grind your espresso for darker roasts. I would definitely go for the 200d then! Try them with darker roasts, i heard they produce great modern espresso! And if you ever feel like changing burrs it’s not a big deal! You could think about the varia vs6 as well!

[@DonnyBenter]

Since you reviewed the df54. How would you compare this grinder to the df54 for espresso?

[@homecafecharlie]

Different leagues. Both can make good espresso but the Mazzer is better in basically every way other than size 😉

[@alvarosainz7662]

How do you like this in between df83v or df64v

[@tricamel]

Hi Charlie, Thank you so much for the review. Is it still worth it for espresso if only the 1200D burrs are available from Mazzer?

[@homecafecharlie]

It could be depending on how you like your espresso. Like I said, I didn't like the burrs that much, but I like things like the HU SSP burrs over any multipurpose burrs. Have you tried any multipurpose burrs before? If not I'd recommend trying them somewhere, ask a friend or at a coffee place or a coffee show somewhere.

[@icyfire207]

@@homecafecharlie Hey Charlie, is 189D burr similar to SSP HU?

[@homecafecharlie]

@@icyfire207 It's a little different but the architecture is quite similar.

[@karasong7701]

If you include price in consideration, would you recommend this or the Timemore 064s?

[@homecafecharlie]

@@karasong7701 oh the Mazzer would easily be my pick.

[@karasong7701]

@@homecafecharlie even considering the price? Okay. Mazzer it is.

[@theone9564]

Hello, would you take this grind orver the eureka oro or nice?

[@homecafecharlie]

Hard to tell cos I haven't used a Eureka Oro. But over the Niche? 100% I would take the Philos

[@jamesh3948]

Great grinder and great review. For a 64mm grinder I’d still choose the Zerno or the Bentwood.

[@homecafecharlie]

Both great grinders. Why would you choose them though?

[@orbit354]

Both are way more expensive though, especially the bentwood. And you have to wait a very long time for your zerno

[@jamesh3948]

@@orbit354agreed and I think that price is a factor (as is bench space etc) but if your considering overall quality and engineering - just looking at the tolerances for me the Bentwood is a superior grinder - would I buy it? No - for reasons of $ and space - as for the Zerno - I think I’m about to order one - wait time 6 months - but I feel like that will wash out in the years I have it. Not dissing the mazzer just think there are two higher quality 64mm grinders that came to mind price not withstanding.

[@orbit354]

@@jamesh3948 The Bentwood is overpriced imo (probably because it’s from switzerland). You could easily get a really good 83mm grinder for that price or upgrade to an eg-1 which is far superior or a kafatek! It’s also 63mm when I’m not mistaken. Zerno is the perfect grinder for me although it’s a bit too expensive (for me). Love the aesthetics and the build quality and that you’re able to use Ssp blind burrs in it

[@jamesh3948]

@@orbit354 I just bit the bullet and ordered a Zerno. I agree regarding the Bentwood but standalone I think it’s the best 63/64mm grinder. Pricing for me is in Australia where an eg-1 is nearly double the price of a bentwood. I’m not to worried about durability for the Zerno the motor seems pretty robust. I definitely think it’s the most aesthetically pleasing and cabinet friendly grinder.

[@_Brewn]

the intro!

[@homecafecharlie]

Tha KS! That took most of a day to film and edit 😅

[@Seph32]

Sadly I have very mixed opinions on this grinder. Aesthetically I love it. Build quality is solid, weights a solid 12.5kg.. the grounds are very nice.. It's a good grinder and I own it. I have noticed a design flaw that the beans can get stuck in the auger failing to get grinded by the burrs. The course grounds get stuck and aren't getting grinded by the burrs. I have found a little trick by tilting the whole grinder. This happens sometimes and not everyday but considering the price point I find it not very elegant and acceptable. Other people have contacted Mazzer rather than taking responsibility for their design flaw they try to pin this issue that beans can be oily or too much moist or RDT is the culprit. Isn't that nice a €1000 grinder not able to handle certain kind of beans that sounds like a huge oversight or design flaw to me. Anyhow I do enjoy this grinder but just saying it's not perfect. I know Mazzer has a pretty good track record, but I'm a little wary for future purchases from this brand. I postes a video on this issue before and theres on Reddit other users experiencing the same problem.

[@nikdeb4481]

Can 189d and 200d burrs fit to other 64mm grinders like df64v?

[@homecafecharlie]

I assume so! Haven't tried it but I will do once I get the 64v back from my friend I lent it to

[@Persason]

No they can't according to Mazzer. This is due to thickness differences. However you can fit SSP burrs in the philos.

[@nikdeb4481]

@@Persason i think they never denied that these burrs fits in other grinders. They just said that the do not recommend because are better optimized only for philos. They are indeed different thickness from other 64mm burrs but i think aramse said that they fit in other grinders but need also other o-rings. I hope Charlie can clarify this.

[@joconnell]

They fit into the Zerno!

[@nittygritty7434]

Suggest look at Toms Grinder Lab. Long story short the Mazzer generally will not fit in DF64 and it's not just the thickness but the Inner Diameter may not fit the burr carrier. Tom has tried testing and swapping dozens of burrs between all sorts of grinders like Niche Duo, DF83V, DF64 gen 2, DF64V etc..and he learned the hard way just because 64mm etc.. doesn't necessarily work with any other 64mm grinder. Seems Mazzer Philos can use(fit) SSP burrs but flip side Mazzer don't necessarily fit DF and then if have the $$ to spend Zerno is capable of taking Mazzer and SSP. Regards,

[@zach2954]

Shame you didn't mention how the i200ds fare on filter 😢

[@homecafecharlie]

Yeah I basically don't do filter and don't feel qualified to even talk about it. Plenty of other reviews or there from people who could give you a more educated review for filter 😉

[@JimboJones99]

Goodness gracious 😭

[@cybernessful]

I'm surprised to see how many people praising this review, despite the fact that this guy has no clue what he is talking about, everything he said at 1:35 is a nonsense. Clamps are not the result of lack of the auger, clamps are result of poor exit chute and chamber design. There are hundreds of grinder without any auger that don't suffer from clamping and still grind very fast. The goal of the auger is to pre-brake the beans, make a feed constant and reduce overgrinding. Has nothing to do with making the grinds look visually fluffy.

[@markw-2025]

What would be great, is if they engineered in blind burrs! Only the Zerno has them now, and common sense says that blind burrs (without the screws on the cutting blade side) will cut more evenly and efficiently.

[@homecafecharlie]

Yes Blind burrs are the next big thing in grinder tech. I hope future iterations will have them

[@loriosterweil982]

I never heard of blind burrs. Thanks for the info.

[@JPC326]

Compare to Zerno ?

[@homecafecharlie]

I would but I've never used a Zerno 🤣

[@PradyumnVij]

I mean Zerno is just better engineered for that price range.

[@homecafecharlie]

Zerno is quite a bit more expensive and has a long waitlist. But it is very pretty, I'd like one too

[@DonnyBenter]

In europe the zerno is almost double the price, has a long waiting list and is from a new company that still have to proof themselves.

[@donjon1st]

This seems to be £1500 online, quite far away from £730!

[@Sami-ev4jb]

£726 + Taxes direct from Mazzer with their launch pricing. I paid £884 in total for delivery to the UK.

[@homecafecharlie]

I think that must be on a reseller. From Mazzer directly it's just over £700 plus you'll need to pay local taxes etc.

[@adrianmichaelsmith]

Go direct to Mazzer dont get ripped off by resellers . I paid £880 including import duty direct from mazzer. Im in the UK. Also own niche Duo. Philos is the best grinder at this price point.

[@orjan-j2881]

I feel like the niche zero is still the gold standard , so how does it compare to the niche ????

[@donjon1st]

Niche is conical burrs, these are flat burrs - not quite apples and oranges but you get the idea

[@homecafecharlie]

Very different grinder styles. For me the Niche is capable but doesn't make outstanding espresso. The Philos very much does, especially with those I189D burrs which are some of my favourites ever!

[@orbit354]

The niche zero is not the gold standard! There are grinders far more capable and you can‘t compare flat to conical grinders. It depends on your taste though which ones you prefer