You Should Submit to Your Spouse

[@_tndn]

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" The responsibility on the man has a lot of gravity as well. Men are supposed to be self-sacrificial in regards to their wife in the same way Christ died on the cross for the Church. The man's role in this relationship is no joke.

[@genebruce6321]

Lots of men have ignored that part of those verses. They like the 'submission' thing though.

[@_tndn]

@@genebruce6321 thats why women shouldn't pick buffoons. You need someone you can trust during a 9 month period of vulnerability and for life. Find a God fearing man

[@kevinkelly2162]

Didn't he die for the sins of the world?

[@jesseleighbrackstone8365]

Bingo!🙏🏻♥️🙏🏻

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Men are supposed to be many things bur fall short

[@MeeCee5204]

"Hey Jordan, what do you want for breakfast?" "Well, first we need to define breakfast...." lol, love this man 😂❤😂

[@Jmacdonald2386]

😂 that’s hilarious and totally pictured that scenario! If you haven’t seen them already, search for Jordan Peterson impressions on KZbin, there’s some hilarious ones that are spot on! Figured you might be interested if you enjoy imagining him speaking about every day things or topics that we will most likely never hear him really speaking about, those impressions really are great

[@8dreamersfarm]

90% of my husband’s frustrations with me are because he first doesn’t even try to understand what I’m saying. He leans on his assumption of what he thinks I’m saying. We’re still happily married, but communication is a strength of mine and he can benefit from a broader perspective and desire to actually listen. When he was getting super frustrated with an idea we were working through, I suggested we go draw it out on a white board. When we were ready, I suggested we start with a prayer. The discussion went much better, even though we both still wanted different things, we could see the pros and cons to the idea we each had. We ultimately found a solution and made progress in our communication.

[@austinjon31]

"now... That's a good question... Because you see..."

[@EscapeTheMatrixRightNow]

Let's define 'want'

[@aa-ze5cz]

@@8dreamersfarm Maybe communication isn't a strength of yours and you need to communicate more clearly?

[@bethanyboothe4817]

I am a married Christian woman (7 years) and grew up in church where submission was taught. I’ve always wondered if I’m “doing it right” as I feel like an equal collaborative partner in my marriage which is not necessarily how I’ve heard submission described from the pulpit. I really resonate with the “beneficial adversary” term because my relationship with my husband has always been one of mutual, respectful challenge toward one another. He’s not a demanding man and serves me every single day! Our relationship is great, so maybe we’re doing marriage right and submission doesn’t feel hard when you have loving counterpart. If anything I feel we both at various times choose to lose (or submit) in the moment so that the relationship can win, therefore even in our “losing” we still win.

[@STak-ju7gx]

Not married but love thinking, researching, and nusing upon these concepts. Similarly, my church community preaches submission, and it always aggravated me as I was growing up. the older ladies will use the submission thing and being a lady to always excuse everything the guys did and make it the girl's fault despite how much hurt I already felt and coming to report it. So you can tell I grew up thinking it's unjust to create an equally sentient being and doom that being to an existence of powerlessness against the wrongs of another terribly imperfect being. Anyways, as I grew and started to look into it, the Bible does have a balance with the order of submission. The husband submits to Christ, and the wife submits to the husband. Now the husband is submitted to Christ based on love, the Love that Christ had that He gave up Himself for the Church, even with her terrible imperfections. This same kind of love is the Love the Husband ought to have towards the wife, one that so easily gives oneself up for the other. Alot of power hungry and ego centered men, like to limit the interpretation of that giving up of self, to providing security and taking a bullet should the slim chance occur. But giving up oneself is similar to denying oneself to follow Christ. It means He the husband doesn't insist on His own way, but be fullying following Christ and be counseled by Christ's way as well as be considerate to the wife. God's ordination it's not for one to dominate the other. From what I understand, it serves the purpose of also dealing with one of the major poisons of sin in us. The original, original sin of pride that led to lucifer's rebellion. Ego and constantly seeking to be on top, to be dominant, seeking to be in control, to have ones way, etc. Are all features of pride. God didn't ordain this order so men can grow their pride, this order is for all to be subject to God. I think your example sort of shows this. Your husband doesn't seem to be too obsessed with ego and being in control and creating rigid boxes to fit you in. He simply is leading you with love and somehow knows that sometimes, He must give himself up to be a good leader and representative of Christ in your marriage. Of course its easy to submit to love. Who wouldn't? So far, in practice, I have yet to see couples who are so stuck up with traditional interpretations of submission that are truly happy. Most happy couples I have seen, both are so caring and considerate of each other and the women come off as partners, not someone subject to another. You may correct me if I am wrong in this assessment, but I believe it very close to correct. God loves both genders equally, and He wouldn't place an order that puts an unchecked fallible man over another who is required to be subject and powerless.

[@Timblisi]

It seems to me you've explained it better than almost anyone I've ever heard or seen. I think you are certainly "doing it right."

[@lukeshioshio]

You're doing it perfectly in my opinion. Submission doesn't mean someone has to dominate the other. You submit to each other's needs.

[@garryrichardson4572]

That’s beautiful. As Paul put it “ submit to one another in reverence to Christ “.

[@carollen5601]

Compatibility is the key. When two people are from different cultures and different religions it's more difficult. There are so many factors, I decided not to marry again.

[@ayonalovecoaching]

My man has my best interest at heart. Often more so than what I would do for myself. He looks after us very well. I am grateful every night just to hear him breath beside me.

[@chillie000]

How long have you been together?

[@pastelmoon9118]

I hope he got that motivation when you are +50

[@Tom-tk3du]

My late wife and I had what I would consider a perfect marriage, as good as one could ever hope for in life. There were three parties to our marriage...she, me and "WE". We were each our own selves, but everything we did was in the service of the joint WE, which always benefited the both of us equally. It all came very naturally..we didn't really try to analyze it. It was basically what Jordan is talking about, but perhaps my choice of words is not as articulate as Jordan's. It's a remarkable thing, if you're fortunate enough to ever find yourself in such a relationship.

[@bethanyboothe4817]

I feel the same way about my marriage to my husband. I sometimes wonder if I’m “doing submission” correctly, (and even now I can’t really say for sure if I am) but I look at our happy marriage and I think I must be in the ballpark, because I couldn’t ask for much better marriage.

[@bruhgh609]

Your comment hit me pretty hard. My fiance always says "We". I love that woman dearly

[@marencruickshank]

❤

[@pegasus5287]

You said that beautifully well

[@Rp-wt7uz]

This is literally like the Bible teaching 'the two shall become one flesh'! It's crazy seeing situations of Biblical application and realising that God's way really is good

[@AwokenEntertainment]

the submission of maturity - not doing today what will damage you and your partner tomorrow in pursuit of achieving higher goals together

[@brittanynovais1489]

I submit to my husband because he loves me well. I submit to my husband because I trust him with my very life. I believe in the depths of my soul that my husband will always choose what benefits our family, which in turn benefits me. He is provider, protector, partner, lover…. And he takes all of these roles seriously. He takes great pride in his family, and I in him. My submissiveness has never left me lacking.

[@bnez1302]

Bless him, and you.

[@zaram131]

Good for you…

[@mikelp72]

What if you disagree with him someday, on something very important and something you feel strongly about? Does your submission only go so far as you agree with him and believe in him?

[@hzlkelly]

You ought to submit without conditions 😅

[@mycrazylife408]

Men are more logical women tend to be more emotional. Men are the protector and provider so naturally he’s going to be the team captain or leader. That’s why the women submits to him. It’s politically incorrect to tell it how it is though.

[@stoneyascension7250]

I must agree that this is one of the best understandings of submission in a marriage I've come across after going through theological training while working as a church pastor, now retired, and 51 years of marriage. JP, his wife, and their children are wonderful. A true blessing in a time of need for our world. The flaws of the family are what make them so real. There are no perfect people; we are all flawed in some way. What I like about JP and his family is that you get exactly what you see. There is no pretense of being perfect by them. There was only one perfect man, and he was crucified on a Roman cross.

[@jeusmarcomascarina4102]

Always remember love is commitment and not comfort or desire.

[@katarinas6012]

except he could never become who he is without his wife making all the career sacrifices...

[@Daniela-pr7rz]

Why are they all tainted with depression and all the problems related if they're such a perfect family?

[@jeusmarcomascarina4102]

@@Daniela-pr7rz because that is reality even the best you know failed too. But at least they understand.

[@anonymity11]

There's a simpler answer to the question provided. It's because women will not allow it otherwise. They want the man to lead, no matter how much the the feminist harpies will screech otherwise. And the man is happier when he is in the leadership role as well. Men do not like to feel like they are emasculated, so the dynamic wouldn't work any other way. So it's really women who set this standard. And when the submission is voluntary, because nobody is forcing the woman to submit, then it becomes a true happy relationship which mutually benefits both sides.

[@stephenparker5241]

You have just explained something that I have always known but not fully understood in a technical sense. I've always thought that I was punching above my weight with my partner, but when asked she would say it was the other way around, but we both agree that being together makes us both better than we were as an individual. We have been together for 25 years since our late teens. My only real worry in life is coping with the loss of her not being around any longer but that is all part of the journey of life I suppose.

[@gracegwozdz8185]

Stephen Parker congratulation on your long-lasting harmonious relationship! You are not alone....in the worry to lose your partner. We all do, especially if we've already suffered such a profound loss. C'est la vie.

[@chillie000]

Could I ask, do you still have a good sex life? Sorry if that’s out of line…

[@boijaden123]

In a relationship you both communicate and cooperate because you both want the relationship to be healthy and last as long as possible. Both parties should be willing to change themselves in service of the relationship. With good communication, you can understand what the other person is annoyed about, for example, and you can try your best to not do that thing.

[@user-ls2uq3pv1h]

Well said!

[@watsons4233]

If your in a relationship, you are in a ship. There can only be one captain of a vessel. 2 captains is chaos.

[@Bee71234]

​@@watsons4233 Yes when the husband is in God , but sometimes the woman is much more relevant to be chef

[@thomtermorshuizen3219]

No, i think it's more like you are both the captain of your own ship. You shouldn't change yourself. But i think you should get as close to your true most authentic self as possible. That creates the polarity and excitement. The love then keeps going. Love and relationships go very very deep.

[@jtjones4081]

So you don't believe the Bible commandment "wives, submit to your husbands?" Good for you!

[@GraceHarwood88]

11:00 Not cruelty. Once one partner wishes to enforce submission of the other through cruelty, the trusting willingness to submit to the other withers.

[@kristopherdecker6549]

People leave out the part where the Bible says submit yourselves one to the other. Ephesians 5: 21-25 I suggest that when people have a problem they read the whole thing, not just pick and choose. Verse 25 says love your wives like Christ loves the church. That means you dang well give yourself for her until there is nothing left when she has need, and then that also extends to your children.

[@ambernichols8603]

Right?! How many tyrannical spouses would give themselves for the other?

[@ethanweber7976]

I completely agree. But that is not necessarily submission on the husbands part.

[@callenday6853]

The world ALWAYS leaves out the scriptures where men are commanded to love their wives even to die for them. And the scripture that says the wife's body belongs to the man AND the man's body belongs to the wife... that they have authority over one another. It's not an imbalanced relationship at all as the world constantly tries to shove down everyone's throats off that single verse about submission.

[@echoesofwisdom_]

Exactly!! No one ever talks about the man has to sacrifice even to death for his wife. They just want to misinterpret scriptures to trigger people.

[@avpraeda]

@@echoesofwisdom_ Some very much do, I agree. But unfortunately just as many times I've heard this misinterpretation from priests in my local churches who with their behaviour put this belief to life as well, which is then all the more happily pointed out by the people warring with faith. Wish both sides would be more open to dialogue about the scriptures, there's so much more to them than what most people make it out to be. God bless you

[@TheExtremeCube]

It's mostly perpetuated by ego driven men who just want to rule over someone

[@vibeauxssxuaebiv3489]

They have authority over one another's bodies. The man has authority over the marriage, which he uses to serve the marriage before himself even to death. The wife is to submit so the headship role is clear and because she is to be protected and provided for, not protector and provider, as that doesn't even make sense biologically. In the end, marriage is an institution created By God for the purpose of Respesenting the relationship of Christ and His Church.

[@Razear]

When you frame it as "submission," I think most people think that it makes one party subordinate to the other. Compound that with modern day progressivism and you'll understand why it's easily dismissed. Submitting to your partner is mistakenly perceived as elevating one person at the expense of the other and having your partner be inferior. It's a semantic issue more so than one of values.

[@vinceocratic]

Exactly! The word in and of itself is so problematic that you can’t get past it in order to facilitate an understanding of what’s really being said

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Submission is exactly what people think it is. The women subordinate to the man. Call it what it is. No intelligent woman with self respect wants that

[@SoloRenegade]

leftists are great at changing the meaning of words and terrible with logical reasoning skills and intelligence,

[@STak-ju7gx]

You can't entirely blame progressivism. Growing up in a community were this was taught as part of Christian teaching, people spend an inordinate amount of time stressing submission for women only. And some unfortunate people use it as an excuse to silence women completely. The Bible itself is pretry balanced on submission between husband and wives, but people have a way of perverting things by taking it to an over zealous extreme or the extreme progressivism has taken it to.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Christianity is just another means of controlling women. Just another notch in Christianity's bed post of crimes, indiscretions, corruption.

[@tomaszpaz5189]

There are two quotes about the marriage that I really like and I truly think they are wise and in some way helpful. Perhaps you'll like them aswel. 1. "Love is not a feeling. It's a choice" - if you truly want your marriage/relationship to be healthy, well-organised and fruitful then you literally have to make a choice to love someone. It's not a wild feeling you can't control. A mature love is a way of life you both agreed upon and you both maintain. At least this is how I understand it. 2. "In relationship all the duties should not be divided 50/50. They should be divided 60/40, but both sides should try to be the 60% part" - this one is simple and lovely :)

[@StephMuwangi]

WOW the second part profoundly resonates to me. honestly, well-said.

[@thomaslacroix6011]

Your second point rings really true for me, because in a relationship, the probability that either one sees 100% of the tasks to be done is close to zero. So by doing what in your head is slightly more, you do the tasks your partner doesn't see, and your partner does the same, doing the tasks you don't see, which means most of the stuff is done

[@kathycoleman4648]

Yes, those both make sense. Frankly: If husbands put God and wife at the head of their concerns, and women put God and husband at the head of their concerns, a pairing would turn out fine. Where's self, you might ask? We all include self without it requiring a label. Self is the default. Self is why the focus needs to be on God and your loved one.

[@2ndSonofGod]

You cannot make a choice to love someone. That is a dumb statement.

[@Minmaxer96]

​@Son Of God when you have an argument with your wife. You must choose to not put yourself first to absolve the argument. Divorce is at 50% because people choose themselves over love. Love is a choice. My parents have been together for 40 years. They always say love is a choice.

[@protospateras1420]

Simple said: We are all slaves to the duty of the most important. The family. And then be one with other familys for Love, Careness and Survival.

[@christianwoudenberg3393]

Careness?

[@staynalive660]

I wish this “beneficial adversary” concept would be taught far and wide. It takes love to want to put it into practice.

[@acacia_w]

I like it too. Never heard of this before but it's helpful. It's like, "the one who holds you to account." And that's useful in a partnership also to be a better version of oneself.

[@ShapiraD]

I just stumbled upon this amazing peterson talk, as a Hebrew speaker, it is "Ezer KeNegdo" which translates to something like "a help against him", pretty sure Ben Shapiro talked about it

[@smokingcrab2290]

No adversary is beneficial.

[@jcsguitar2506]

Nice to see that there are those that still see value in the lifelong union of a man and woman in a marriage.

[@gracegwozdz8185]

JCS, we are in great majority indeed.

[@jcsguitar2506]

@@gracegwozdz8185 unfortunately true

[@clifcody]

"Each of you should jointly submit to the spirit that makes your relationship redemptive and dynamic" (10:20) Brilliant

[@Miossoty1]

Agreed!

[@pianoreigns]

What Spirit ?? Not brilliant. God denying

[@kurtverbaarschott8961]

Look / read carefully… It says SUBMIT YOURSELF…SUBMIT YOURSELVES, that means willingly to do so. Each “help-meet” is to willingly submit themselves on to another as “beneficial adversary”… as the Hebrew conveys. it’s not intended to rule over by force but with WILLINGNESS.

[@-o-dq7nd]

Indeed, submission is not slavery, doesn't exist. If a woman wants to leave she can there is nothing forcing her to say especially in this day and age. She must choose to submit.

[@aristobrat4987]

exactly. i willingly choose to allow my husband to make most of our decisions. does it bite me in the ass now and then ? yes. is it still a better dynamic than too many chefs in the kitchen ? also yes. its so odd to me how women think WILLINGLY SUBMITTING means a man is your slave owner. like who hurt these women to where they think all men are slave drivers ? they cant even tell you because most of them are just morons crying about having to clean a kitchen in a modern country with fucking kitchen robots doing most of the cleaning. im literally about to order food from an ipad so i can finish unpacking my new apartment. its so crazy how lazy people are that they think doing HOUSE CHORES is slavery

[@celuiquipeut6527]

Try to explain that to a feminist. Lol

[@ferraridav]

@Aristobrat it's because those women bought into the false notion that intersexual dynamics are a zero sum game. So in their minds if a man wins, a woman loses. They can't comprehend the notion that men and women can win together.

[@j.p.5716]

This is true but it's an INSTRUCTION given to wives, not a suggestion.

[@keithmlarsen]

This is why any marriage is a gamble. For peace one must submit to the will of another and hope they feel inclined to do the same a decent percentage of the time.

[@Jcremo]

Literally every single choice you make in life is a gamble. However you can mitigate the chances of loss if you be the spouse your spouse wants to come home to. If both of you make the decision to put the other before yourself your life will flourish.

[@XI24]

People dont usually pay attention to another command that says - Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel, and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered. 1 Peter 3:7 Imagine that! That a husband must love his wife to have his prayers heard.

[@RegineBrady]

Yes!!!! This is sooooo good and Godly!!!!!! Never stop speaking, Jordan!! Continue to be the brave man you are. You’re brave and you’re FULL OF TRUTH. You inspire me more than you could ever know.

[@jonathanweilbacher9714]

I love that!!!!!

[@KD400_]

Do u submit to ur husband as said in the bible

[@RegineBrady]

@@KD400_ yes, of course. That’s at least my strong intention. If not, I’d be a stupid hypocrite for making the comments I have after watching Jordan’s video. 🙄

[@CBarros91]

​@@KD400_Most importantly, do you submit to your wife? Because I see many more men wanting the benefits of women's submission but not wanting to submit to her.

[@ethanweber7976]

@@CBarros91 Well in terms of a biblical view, a Husband is not called to submit to his wife. He is called to love her as Christ loved the church. This means that he dies for her. He sacrifices for her. But there isn't a biblical mandate for a husband to submit to his wife.

[@fun----]

Great Mr and Mrs Peterson together. Blessings.

[@stephensayedolo]

I've been listening to Jordan Peterson all day since the beginning of this year.... Nothing can ever stop me from listening to him. He has become my role model.

[@Saveg36]

🐑

[@budnrobots2968]

That’s dedication!!

[@RogerABruhn]

You have lots of choices. That’s a good one.

[@chickenmonger123]

There should be things that could stop you. Like if he actually did something horrendous. Nothing is a bad word for what you are saying.

[@WilliamEllison]

I would make Christ your role model, so you are not lead astray.

[@hzlkelly]

I woke up at midnight last night, I was anguished about marriage, hadn’t fought or anything with my husband. But I felt so heavy so I went to pray. I asked God to help me submit to my husband not that I’m not but I’ve been holding back to full submission. God made me realise that love is really not feelings but our proactive choice to always put our partner first. Selflessness. This is hard but yet rewarding.

[@craterous]

Would it help you to understand that your submission is a role model for his submission to God? One of our first mission fields is our spouse, to help them in their walk. (In return he is directed to love and sacrifice for you, in a sense -----submission. He basically role models Jesus love to you as best he can -- both for your sake and his own understanding of God's love for him. The proceess here is mutual.) Your comment on Love: My definition of "LOVE" is --- seeing someone as God sees them. (Which your comment gets at.)

[@tanakamawere]

May the Lord be with you and your marriage

[@smokingcrab2290]

Why are your feelings so vexxed? Are you not getting any connection?

[@janicep1508]

Years ago I read a book by a Jewish scholar saying the phrase helpmate, to describe the woman, was like a helper who pulls you out of a deep pit. Not just like someone who fixes you dinner.

[@Anakynblade88]

Thank you, Jordan, for allowing people to hear your train of thought, I gladly listen to any of your conversations on any subject. Sincerly Thank you.

[@virginiatushman3240]

Thank you for explaining so clearly the concept of "wives have to be submissive to their husbands". In the old days, pastors always used what Paul said (God created Adam first so he is the boss; it's Eve who caused Adam to sin so she is incerior) to accuse wives and demand them to be submissive to their husbands (eg do whatever the men tell you to do) and if you don't, then you are not spiritual and you rebel against God.) It's been a spiritual blackmail to me. I've been married for over 20 years, and my husband always uses this to rule over me. He makes all the important family decisions (He also claims Paul said man is the head of the family). Listening to you makes me feel like someone is telling a victim of rape that it is not her fault.

[@vassilopoula]

Horrible😮

[@gregpowers4353]

I suspect that there is more here to explore. I know of a couple where the wife was the accountant in a firm and the husband said that he needed to do the money. On its face, it appeared to be a poor requirement of submission on his part. BUT... once the 'rest of the story' was identified, it turned out that she had a terrible gambling problem and she was playing a shell game with money and they were broke beyond broke. He took a ton of heat because he would not embarrass his wife in public about the issue but there was no way she was getting access to managing the accounts once he found out. More often there are elements of rebellion in the issue and one has to be careful about assuming one way or the other here.

[@dasan9178]

Adam was WITH Eve (it’s stated clearly in some Bible versions) at the Tree of Knowledge as she listened to the serpent and took the fruit. He could have at any time chased the snake away, told her not to take the fruit, or knocked it out of her hand. He didn’t because he was also interested in what the serpent was saying, considering what it would be like to have special knowledge, and doubting God. Eve didn’t cause Adam to sin. He failed in his duty, trust and more. It’s why the Bible says by one MAN sin came into the world. Sure, she played a role in it, but hers was secondary to his.

[@daisiesandpandas1218]

Your husband disrespecting you may be causing some of his prayers and hence family prayers to be hindered. "Husbands, in the same way, treat your wives with consideration as a delicate vessel, and with honor as fellow heirs of the gracious gift of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered." 1 Peter 3:7 BSB "In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church." Ephesians 5:28‭-‬29 BSB Does he work? Ask him about a higher up at work/ church who dismiss his opinions, suggestions, concerns and leads without giving a crap about the people they lead, ask how that makes him feel. Asks why he feels that way when he should just obey and bite his tongue like he's said you should.

[@kodichianigbogu9015]

Please read the bible for yourself and ask God to give you understanding. People twist words all the time!

[@tanyamilewski5700]

It is slavery if your demands under the umbrella of submission are slavelike. It doesn’t matter what you call it and definitely a waste of time discussing it. What matters is what’s actually happening in the dynamic and if those activities are slavery. Plenty of people disguise slavery in words like respect, submission, employment etc so words without action don’t mean anything. The truth is if your employment is long hours and meager pay no power to change it you are a slave. If your husband expects you to be his mother and maid but also thinks his income is all his and you are disposable when he sees fit and you can’t do anything about it you are a slave. Slavery is about power and abuse of said power. Submission is not slavery only when the power is equal. If you submit by force or because you have no other choice but to submit that’s slavery. If you submit because you have power to revoke the submission then there wldnt be need to discuss or argue about the topic.

[@maiahatcher9949]

Once I heard that to submit is to be under the mission of someone. I believe the mission of a husband is to lead his family. A husband is supposed to lead like Christ Who honor the church and died for her sacrificially. I believe many women wouldn't be afraid to submit to someone who really knows what that mission look like. The problem happens is when the woman completely trust their husband with that mission and many years later she's completely lost and abandoned, Sometime deceived and hurt or even exchanged for someone else. Many men use that card of submission to control and deceive and it's very hard for woman to really know Where the line of submission finished and the line of controlling begin. I am not against being submissive to a man that carries that mission with truthfulness and wholeheartedly

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

I heard differently that a couple should be an equal partnership. Anything else, the woman is a slave

[@juliecarns]

Maia, Well stated.

[@skeelatheskink8724]

@@wyleecoyotee4252 men and women are equal….having different variations of roles or ways partners agree upon to support each other in, within individual couples, does not make one or the other above the other.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

@@skeelatheskink8724 You're not equal if one's role is submission. In an equal relationship there are no roles

[@crystallogic2543]

A woman can show submission to her man and thus reveal not only the authority of the husband's position but simultaneously the responsibility. A good man will toil in sacrificial love under that responsibility. Not too useful if you marry a sadist though, which is why you should take marriage seriously and choose a trustworthy life partner. Of course it's often also the case that women are in their sensitivity too oblivious about a man's coldly rational yet benevolent ways and may take undue offense. Which is one of the good reasons for submission.

[@awakenrae]

I love that he has seemed more interested in the Bible lately and pray for him to get saved if he has not been already!

[@AaronCMounts]

It is very interesting, you bring up this topic. Jordan Peterson is quite well known for having renounced his atheist upbringing and declaring himself a Christian, several years ago.

[@awakenrae]

@@AaronCMounts Oh wow that's great! I didn't not know that thank you!

[@shirooumu]

That makes it more clear than expected, so you are supposed to submit to the relationship with one another, in contrary on what it might sound to someone listening to it for the first time, which could be submit to the whims of your spouse, the point is to submit to the relationship and to your spouse as external(as of self) representation of it, which makes things a lot easier for people who don't like the idea of submission but the idea of giving it all for the sake of a healthy relationship with one another

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

I almost agree… but I’m caught on why wouldn’t the text just say “submit to the relationship?”

[@daisiesandpandas1218]

​@@Black_pearl_adrift because the Bible in the same chapter goes on to describe how that looks like in the husband, the love of a husband should be one that he can even die for his wife if needed That kind of husband is not a power hungry bozo testing his power and at every whim saying something nonsensical to test and demand submissiveness. But everybody ran with one verse and stopped reading, atheists, men who think God values them over women etc.

[@AristoCat-h6h]

​@@daisiesandpandas1218Men have never argued against that. I have never heard a man say that he would rather his wife die than himself if put to that situation. Women have protested there role very vocally.

[@JiraiyaSama86]

As soon as you brought up Ezer, I immediately recalled the conversation you had with Ben Shapiro. It was one of my favorite moments as it was interesting to hear that it meant "a helper against you". Ezer Kenegdo. I had to look it up and it was fascinating. It was also interesting how you brought up that topic where you talked about how to hit the mark more smoothly by having something slightly push against it. Forgot what that concept was called.

[@kaloncar]

Especially good to see and hear your wife take part in this topic with you.

[@geneticsmatter3834]

Make Men Respectable Again Make Women Modest Again Make Families Whole Again

[@ii-es2sn]

Men is a reference to more than one!? Start by being a man..! Set an example to find the right woman.... Forget the playing fields of men and women! 😉

[@davidopsahl9188]

Feminism and women are 100% to blame for the current relationship environment. They would rather share a few 10 level men than have any relationship with any man below 10 level (good looking, 6 figure income minimum, 6 foot tall minimum and 6" pleasure unit minimum). But you keep lying and putting all the blame on men, that will not have the effect that you are supposedly seeking. You see, women use BLAME and SHAME in their tactics to control men and, thanks to the internet, men are waking up to this more every day and those that wake up disregard with prejudice ALL shaming language.

[@MsQ275]

❤❤❤

[@Nat-lg2ks]

A friend of mine takes the idea of submission far too far. His poor wife doesnt even get asked her opinion as he believes God wants him to make all decisions.

[@gregpowers4353]

I am sure that there is more to this...

[@daisiesandpandas1218]

​@@gregpowers4353 what more? We shouldn't just tell men they're heads of households, we need to give them books in effective leadership. This man may not even be evil, he just thinks this is what a leader means: Not giving a damn about the thoughts and concerns of the people you lead

[@gregpowers4353]

@@daisiesandpandas1218 - I have counseled numerous men about leadership and issues... and rarely are the facts as this is presented. I'm not saying that it never happens, but I know women who have expressed this position and it turns out that they have their own issues and when it all is balanced out, the 'rest of the story' paints a very different picture. I agree that men need guidance on biblical leadership, teaching from the pulpit on it, counseling on it, etc.....

[@avapilsen]

​@@gregpowers4353no, many men literally never seek out their wife's opinion on a single thing.

[@cheezedoodlenygguh6229]

@Ava Pilsen Who cares? Has listening to w0men ever done civilization any favors? It seems like it only has gotten worse since. Too many opinions from those who shouldn't even be heard.

[@davidshepherd397]

My wife and I see the world in different ways, and when we travel we often see different aspects of the same places or events. When we are at our best this allows us to take a trip twice as we share these differing perspectives, in a way that give us a deeper understanding or what we have seen, it that makes any sense. It's not confrontational, as we offer our perspective in an unvarnished way with each other knowing that the other wants to hear what we say, and we do it in a trusting that we won't be laughed at way, which is both humble and assertive at the same time. Life events have conspired to upset that delicate balance which when we find is truly more than each of us can hope to create or discover alone, and we are working on that. perhaps this is what JP is describing, or something like it.

[@ormoran4401]

just wanna say that the word "ezer" means aid basically, from wikitionary in hebrew a rough translation would be "what is added to a force in order to complete it's action". "ezer" has no military context by itself, you can say a certain group of soldiers became an aid an 'ezer' to a current force (A once word translation of ezer would be aid). In addition the phrase that peterson is trying to recollect is "Ezer kenegdo" which translates as "an aid (ezer) against him" which does fit what he is talking about.

[@AmphibiousWarrior573]

Let's take a moment to appreciate that JP has more followers and subscribers than The View and MSNBC. The tide is shifting.

[@big_red_machine3547]

I love the view that man and wife “submit” to the idea of working together as one to move forward together, truthfully, to counteract the “catastrophe of life”. It’s not about dominance or outshining the other partner

[@redtobertshateshandles]

In the early days of my marriage, I felt and acted like we were in a power struggle. We both agreed we were assholes.. I've now surrendered, for my own sake.

[@ioioiotu]

Nature doesn't care about what you love, the normal sexual dynamics dictates that the wife submits to the husband.

[@recoveringsoul755]

You're only supposed to submit AS TO THE LORD, so if your spouse tells you to rob a bank, you do NOT need to obey that. Because God would never tell you to steal. Only a good man who himself follows God, and has your best interest at heart, should be followed. Far too many power hungry abusive males take this submit thing to mean essential slavery.

[@jacobfamily4544]

And you would be surprised the amount of women that already have attacked him over this. They are misrepresenting the whole point of the video.

[@big_red_machine3547]

@@jacobfamily4544 agreed. It’s women who don’t even care to understand what JP conveys. They got their backs up over the whole “feminine = chaos” theory and refused to listen to anything further

[@glowshine8102]

After 33 years of studying and working and being an independant woman (at the same time staying a virgin until mariage) i am willing and ready To submit to a real man Which means letting him lead yet at the same time playing as a team and partners in life . Best wishes To you all single people out there.

[@srams443]

You are a virgin at 33. Something is wrong with you 🙄

[@lawsonransom8318]

Oh boy. You're gonna have to define "real man" for him before he gets into anything.

[@Siso_Mnguni]

May i ask whats ma'ams perception of a real man

[@charlesbell5500]

Hey, I think it's remarkable that you're choosing to wait until marriage for sex! I am too. I'm a 24-year-old male and I'm looking for my wife now. I'm definitely interested in you, even despite the age gap. Let me know if you're interested in getting to know me and I'll redirect you to my secondary email, and from there, my phone number for WhatsApp. I'm in Canada. If you're not interested, God bless you, I hope you find the man of your dreams! 🙏❤

[@charlesbell5500]

Wait...you are only 33 right? Because you said 33 years of studying and working, but you look young in your profile picture. 😅

[@charmainemiles4089]

Tammy, and Jordan are a gift from God, for us to watch them together to see the admiration they have for each other from a life of being together, they stand out as beautiful, I love them and their respect they have and share with us the viewer's

[@tracypoynton571]

So many men take advantage of the term submission and help met and an awful lot of women do not fully understand the concept allow this to happen and get advise from other women that encourages the abusive husband

[@cheezedoodlenygguh6229]

At least men understand order. Not enough of your cries and whims will throttle our righteous control.

[@sitdownstandup91]

men only understand violence @@cheezedoodlenygguh6229

[@pastelmoon9118]

traditional men = traditional abusers

[@thomasjorge4734]

Sub-Mission: Voluntarily commiting oneself to the Project.

[@victoriacampbell7651]

Ephesians 6:21-25 ❤Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. ..... ❤Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands...... ❤Husbands, love you wives....

[@Notme811_you]

can I add ? 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

[@josefranco480]

Wow idk if it’s just JP or if preachers everywhere are shaking their heads saying that’s what I’ve been saying for the past 20 years. I’m gonna say maybe a lil but still he’s reviving Christianity and the foundations of Western culture. Makes it look so easy

[@raphaelsamonte457]

I wish JP added the part about the husband, loving, protecting and if need be, dying for his wife as Christ died for His Bride - the Church 😇

[@Minnesotayankee]

Maybe he will soon . I think he has touched on it before but not in a Biblical sense

[@pastelmoon9118]

even tho jesus were childfree? XD

[@ifluxion]

Basically, getting married is a process where you submit yourself to your spouse. Now your body is part of your spouse's, and your spouse's body becomes part of you. You treat yourself well, and axiomatically you treat your spouse well. If you don't submit yourself to your spouse, then treating yourself well don't do anything for your spouse. Even if you do, if you can't treat yourself well, you can't treat your spouse well.

[@AlexMcDaniels]

I'm always impressed by Dr.Peterson's ability to communicate, he's truly a gift to humanity. God bless him and his family.

[@rickjames3562]

the last sentence blew my mind, i sit here with a beer in my hand knowing it will absolutely drive my woman crazy when she gets home and strain our relationship, he just made me realize how selfish im being. time to grow up, im dumping all my beer

[@gwengelineau1124]

Good job for that man, you’re life will only go up from there

[@micahmendoza3737]

This is a powerful realization I hope you keep it up I hope the best for you.

[@cheezedoodlenygguh6229]

lame.....

[@emeldamubaiwa7142]

Did you dump it?

[@rickjames3562]

@@emeldamubaiwa7142 every last drop

[@rmcgraw7943]

Ever seen a female bear protect her cubs. Warrior would hardly describe the fight she will put up. I’ve seen them die fighting, while killing an agressive attacking male bear, all to protect her cubs.

[@geneticsmatter3834]

In order for her to voluntarily submit, the man has to be very respectable and impressive. They don't actually like being in charge and being the one to make tough decisions about things. They do want to submit in certain ways. It's my theory that the ones that never submit are the most miserable, and maybe that's because they've never been around a respectable man in their lives.

[@Saveg36]

@@rantsofmyzen as they should be, men are not all good and vise versa

[@eliasrisberg2893]

Well said!

[@amihere383]

Perhaps if men had a woman worth fighting for, worth giving everything for, a woman worth improving oneself for, we wouldn’t have such a problem

[@angelaramsay1778]

JP states each partner should submit to the relationship AND to each other.

[@jarroddavid8352]

@@amihere383 Equally great point!

[@LittleHouseOnTheMountain]

It starts with marrying a man fully submitted to God. If you do that, the submission aspect is a lot simpler.

[@tanman966]

My comment has been removed through ‘breaking community guidelines’ I hope anyone reading this figures what I’m hinting at: I was in a very dark place, but Dr Peterson was a huge part of keeping me around to listen to such videos as the one you’re viewing now... Thank you

[@HALee-]

May our Creator continue to work in your heart. Bless you, my dear. 🙏🏻

[@itzikca]

The word is עזר כנגדי the first word alone means only help, the second is the adding to it the meaning of a beneficial adversary. It means against me.

[@Lonagin]

Most people in Christian circles typically end up smashing the two words help and meet together, not realizing that they are separate. In the context in Genesis the words help meet mean a helper or a help fit or just right for Adam. The word “meet” in old English as used in this type of context means fit for or in a looser sense appropriate for. There is no such thing as a “helpmeet” that’s just a word made up out of confusion, and often used in a derogatory manner.

[@evelynbare1975]

It's not that it's repulsive, it's that marriage has become a twisted and strange thing now. In a time where sex can be ordered up like pizza online, our society no longer values. Not just marriage, family, parents, children, friends, neighbors, pets, and OURSELVES. No appreciation and no reverence for anyone, anything, and don't even know what they are disrespecting because they don't love. They never had it, and they don't know what it is. Sad that.

[@jetty957]

Only one person can submit not both. So what the hell is wrong with RESPECT and mutual respect at that. And whatever 'submit' might have meant, it means something else entirely now, especially in the degrading to humans 'BDMS' lifestyle. Even when people say submit to the relationship, again I would use 'sacrifice' for the relationship. I find SUBMIT in any use abhorrent to the point I feel nauseous.

[@bakkudeku]

If non-submission condemnable, then rebelling against tyranny is doubly so; then communistic tyranny is either: (a) morally/ethically valid; or (b) those who say non-submission is condemnable have double-standards, as they draw distinctions between the moral/ethical validity among tyrannies based on variable factors, such as: (i) the specific agents carrying them out; (ii) the amoung of power they wield; (iii) the extent of their dominance; (iv) their capacity to control and subjugate etc. And if: (A) non-submission is condemnable; and (B) communistic tyranny is ever morally/ethically valid; then they should submit to communistic tyranny. But: (A') they're in open opposition to communism in the name of "freedom and liberty", and (B') those to them are morally/ethically commendable values. Thus, this stance of theirs in regards to the latter negates the validity of their former proposition that non-submission is condemnable. Thus the only thing condemnable there is actually: (I) their double-dealing; (II) their intellectual dishonesty; (III) their sanctimonious hypocrisy; and (IV) their totalitarian aspirations (at least as vile as those of the communists).

[@Justin-vq9co]

So really "submission" is an older term to "commitment." Essentially because people constantly talk about how progressive they are today, there is a sense that everything that matters to you is of your own free will. There is a separation of "basic survival" and "the thriving of a soul." Which, although the two go hand and hand, I dont think modern people have any clue how arrogant it is to think that the purest form of dedication to the best possible scenario for yourself and other people, is something you just magically come up with out of your own good will. Its partially kept up by some sort of commitment, sacrifice, whatever you want to call it, to ground you in the first place.

[@MusiicRoolz]

commitment is part of it but it's more about surrender, trust in the partner, giving yourselves to each other, giving yourselves over to the relationship and energy between you (not that you don't have autonomy and boundaries ofc)

[@mycrazylife408]

Men are more logical women tend to be more emotional. Men are the protector and provider so naturally he’s going to be the team captain or leader. That’s why the women submits to him. It’s politically incorrect to tell it how it is though.

[@daisiesandpandas1218]

​@@mycrazylife408 not true, you're speaking in stereotypes and caricatures. There are relationships where the wife is more level headed and less emotional. The husband is still assigned to be the head. Head doesn't mean you have something more than your wife, or she has something less than you. You're still thinking in terms of earthly ways. That the one who is lower is the one that submits.

[@avapilsen]

The meaning of submission did not change. Women are told to obey their husbands. There's no way around this.

[@heathergrahame9647]

The problem with a woman submitting to a man is that it is spiritually perverse. For a woman to be spiritually aligned and healthy, she must submit herself to God. That is true for a man also. The problem has arisen as a result of God being portrayed as a man or a male figure in many religions. This then leads to the incorrect conclusion that a woman should submit to a man.

[@toml.8210]

He's right. People think submission is a kind of slavery, but if you actually know it means you are both on the same mission, according to the Spirit, it means something much better.

[@pastelmoon9118]

:") men love to talk about submission.. when its not them who need to submit!

[@nula654]

I also start a story with; this is interesting, especially when talking to my husband, and his usual answer is... hmmm, that's nice dear. I wonder if Jordan's wife does that too? I can't help but chuckle at the way she watches him talk. It's lovely.

[@ryanking4559]

What about relationships where one's skills and pitfalls are juxtaposed to the skills and pitfalls of another, helping both of you be more complete and well rounded. If I'm a great chef, I don't necessarily want to marry another great chef, although true that we might challenge one another to be better at that skill set. But when your skills are more complimentary, I feel like it provides for a more rounded life as a whole. If one enjoys what the other finds dull or less interesting, and can help you to explore those things in more detail, or in the case of homemaking, take care of the things you don't enjoy, while doing the things that they don't really enjoy, while still having many common overlapping interests, you've got a perfect match in my opinion!

[@terry9238]

Sure. Now where can a woman who isn’t good at homemaking find a man who is?

[@kofipapa2886]

It think there must be submission on both sides to the degree of ability and competence shown. If the woman is competent in a, b and c then in the said department the man should submit to her competence and vice versa. Because in the end we want to advance in the right direction as a couple and we want to serve and be served with the best of skills.

[@MsQ275]

you are wrong and that's why Dr Peterson is also wrong. if he is going to use the Bible, he needs to stop half assing it. Read Ephesians 22-33 and you'll get the full understanding. Good luck.

[@bloodyamazing]

maybe "teamwork" is a better word than "submission"

[@rajatpatel8846]

not exactly cus submission dynamics means giving the authority to the husband who takes it and puts it on himself as responsibility to take care of her wife

[@j.p.5716]

Better for what? The Feminist idea of marriage? Certainly not God's idea.

[@jakemealer9545]

It's sad because women care more about their workplace and coworkers more than trying to create a family or home for themselves. Which isn't a bad thing, but what happens when you live your whole life just being a worker ant?

[@yhckelly]

I'm a minister. This is always ridiculously hard to explain with any depth. Jordan rattles off a 12 min answer with no notes that explains the dynamic perfectly. I'm stealing all of this. Thanks, Dr. Peterson!

[@redtobertshateshandles]

Say a prayer for him. This level of thinking must hurt..

[@smokingcrab2290]

The Bible is tough to explain. It's written simply, but the depth of meaning in it is hard to investigate and it's hard to articulate. JP could be a brilliant theologian

[@TVAvnger]

My husband doesn't want a submissive woman, he likes my mental strength, leadership and energy. He doesn't want a subservient wife.

[@richardc861]

Yeah he wants all that you say and also the submissive part. Sounds like he’s got himself a good woman

[@narendrasomawat5978]

Men will choose submission over everything.

[@j.p.5716]

That's because he is a weak man who is unwilling to bear the full responsibility of the family on his own shoulders. Any man, who can be honest, wants a submissive wife. Any man who says different is either lying to himself or lying to you.

[@veghcsenge]

I think, that when Paul wrote "Husbands, love your wife, as Christ loved the church, wives submit to your husband as to the Lord" is exactly mutual submission to the Logos with acknowlegding the differences between the sexes. Men desire to be respected by their wives, women desire to be loved by their husbands. Yes, it is mutual submission and love, but in different manifestation.

[@michaelvandenheuvel317]

I agree the goal is outside of a clash of wills. The engine pushes the car down the road by sparking and pushing the opposition.

[@hunterlinton1672]

Me over here with my ball gag and leather harness realizing that's not what he was talking about

[@andreya9776]

[@denisegilmore88]

🤣🤣🤣

[@susannaemmerich1166]

Thank you!!!🙃. Now I'm alone😢.❤

[@bellyfulochelly4222]

The irony is that so many people who think it's horrible to submit to their spouse think nothing of submitting to the will of their child. The former is an effective strategy for a successful marriage. The latter is a recipe for ultimate failure as a parent.

[@gatanegra8815]

A child is your close relative. A husband/wife is practically a stranger, so the comparison is weak, sorry.

[@yogi2436]

@bellyful ochelly You are very wise!

[@donatello9482]

@@gatanegra8815 lol what ? The child grows up and leave to find its own spouse and create their “close relationship”. While you’re alone in a retirement home because you neglected the relationship with your spouse for your kid. A lot of people make this mistake and suffer for it

[@HamzaKhan-sk1rs]

@@gatanegra8815 "practically a stranger" 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@daisiesandpandas1218]

​@@gatanegra8815 wow...

[@WoWisdeadtome]

As the saying goes, "I have only ever bent the knee to two people: the first was God, the second was my wife." Progressivism sees only the ways in which the wife serves the husband, it flat out denies that the husband serves the wife in any capacity. A completely absurd position to hold. I challenge any married man to tell me that you have never done anything for her just because she asked you to.

[@earldeuna6932]

Men also submit themselves in a marriage

[@gabriellahsdancingheart8808]

Why did you put the commercial on top of the talk? That was a powerful part of the response to hear.

[@12345jina]

This video was made for the man children channels like Fresh&Fit, Whatever Podcast and the likes of Andrew Tate who believes that submission is for women only and that it's a way for the men to avoid arguments so that they can have their peace of mind because they are "high value". Two year-olds want others to submit. Real men and women submit to the spirit of the relationship that's aiming at the good for both.

[@tristybrooke33]

I’m just so happy you exist Jordan Peterson. You are truly a force for good in the world

[@sisterdaughter908]

A woman’s deepest desire is to submit - but she must feel safe 🌹

[@areyourhandsbroke]

Mines not

[@daisiesandpandas1218]

I don't think so, but the second half of true.

[@avapilsen]

Talk to more women.

[@LisaSnarski]

@@areyourhandsbroke Me either!! Yuck!!

[@monika7727]

Damn.

[@evelanpatton]

Ps thank you for acknowledging the “forced” part of relationships being “NO FUN” (NOT DESIRE-ABLE).

[@PJHEATERMAN]

If you understand what real love is for your spouse and it's mutual then you have no worries. Real love being you except your spouse's flaws and build a life together, because we are all flawed. When you see someone as perfect with no flaws is called "Limerence" and it isn't love and it will fail.

[@robertflyingheart2427]

The problem is that MANY have never felt love Doc, i've heard this several times through the years, they think differently.

[@Cinderella227]

Thank you, Jordan. ✝️❤️ Being in the zone when I read the Bible or jog is a natural high. I’ve not been lucky in marriage but I do believe it’s possible with the right man.

[@MsQ275]

marriage is not luck, it's work. your Bible tells you that.

[@Cinderella227]

@@MsQ275 Yes, we all know that especially Christian women. Have a wonderful and blessed evening. Ciao 👍🏻✝️

[@brucej1278]

Yes, marriage can be hard work, but like all other earthly things it depends upon more than just the efforts of the two people involved. Effort alone, without certain gifts from heritage, environment, or society will not bring any temporal good.

[@Cinderella227]

@@brucej1278 A marriage needs mutual love, respect, friendship, and harmony. ✝️

[@KD400_]

​@@Cinderella227 all bs. Stop this equality crap. U as a woman have to submit to a good man. It says it in the bible. Theres no partnership in marriage

[@carmalcaddy5261]

Only if you are married !!! Situations Don’t count thats even if you have one

[@SouthAfricanAmerica]

Slave to your impulses and aimless whims, or slave to structure you choose. Either way, slave to something, your choice.

[@rachelabigaild]

Sunny perspective on life.

[@everonlyallforthee]

A great video with the worst ad placement possible 😂

[@stephm5877]

The King of Kings led as a servant who gave His life as a ransom for many. Men should lead like Christ. Pretty simple concept, but men would rather be abusive and prideful.

[@rajatpatel8846]

where did pride come into all of this ;-;

[@emptysoul5057]

I grew up christian and Ephesians 5 was used a lot to tell wives to submit submit which it does say wives submit to your husbands but it also says submit ye one to another in Christ and husbands love your wife as Christ over the church and as your own flesh which I take to mean that you should sacrifice your self for your wife and not harm her as you wouldn't harm your own flesh plus the proverbs 31 woman has her own business is in charge of her children and household speaks with wisdom and is honored in her community and her husband is important in the politics of the city so I think from all that submission to me isn't just on the woman's side of the equation and married life should be two sides co operating as a unit

[@ethanweber7976]

Ephesians 5:21 does not mean that husbands and wives submit to each other equally.

[@emptysoul5057]

@@ethanweber7976 I never said that it did....

[@ethanweber7976]

@@emptysoul5057 Isn't that what your reference to Ephesians meant?

[@emptysoul5057]

@@ethanweber7976 no you inferred that two people can co operate and be not the same or position in a relationship.... Co operating is not the same as giving over the position of head of the household... besides Peter says love your wives according to knowledge and that while women are the weaker sex husbands and wives are joint heirs in the grace of life so from that I think yes the man is stronger yes he has a position of leadership but a wife is a joint heir not a slave to demean and if husbands are supposed to love their wives as Christ loves the church then just like Jesus does listen to the prayers of the flock husbands should consider the concerns of their wives but the problem is currently that women do not want to submit and men do not want to be considerate and it causes an unending cycle of un happiness

[@ethanweber7976]

@@emptysoul5057 Oh okay. I actually am in complete agreement with you. I am sorry if my comment came across wrong. I was just trying to understand what you were saying. I apologize.

[@caydancebloom]

All of that doesn’t really answer the most base level of the question. I completely agree with all that was said but when you’re down in the dirt and grit of life, there are disagreements. When you are in life together you can’t always just do your own thing. You have to work together. But what happens when there is a disagreement that can’t be settled in the time in which it must be settled by? Someone has to be the decider. There needs to be a recognized, agreed upon hierarchy for the sustainability of the relationship to win out. I know that this topic is often abused because it’s about relationships and those involve people and people have issues. And I think if people learn to do what Dr. Peterson is saying, then the frequency of necessity for a “final decider” in a decision will become less and less. If it doesn’t then perhaps it’s not a good match. The goal is to work together, not have power over one another. When people discuss this topic it’s often about picking sides…. “See you should submit” v “see I don’t have to submit.” The truth is… if that’s where the focus is, then the point is already being missed.

[@allen_tor]

I think both you and Jordan are saying the exact same thing.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

No there doesn't need to be a hierarchy. That's just veto power.

[@LightInTheNight1337]

​@@allen_tor No, Jordan is taking what is obviously a patriarchal religion and changing the meaning of words to mean something entirely different.

[@allen_tor]

@@LightInTheNight1337 Thank you for your opinion. Could you covey that to Jordan I think he'd be glad to hear your views.

[@LightInTheNight1337]

@@allen_tor I don't have a way of contacting him and I doubt he'd listen to me anyway :D I think his intentions are good, but he's trying very hard to fix something that can't be fixed.

[@Inspiriments888]

If one can't explain something simply, one has yet to understand it.

[@suzijorgensen6545]

I am still battling ghosts of a"Christian" marriage. I tried to make it work, BUT his gaslighting, raging, and indeed, the instinct that I had to protect 3 beautiful little children from him, drove me to get out. I CANNOT and WILL NOT let any other women of faith go through the sa.

[@rrwholloway]

I remember discussing our wedding vows with my wife. The old Church of England vows include that the wife promise to obey her husband. I suggested we both promise to obey, which felt like the right compromise in the spirit of the requirements of marriage. Sounds like Prof Peterson would approve.

[@curtishand6180]

Except you will not find one verse where a husband is commanded to obey his wife, but you will find the opposite

[@lupinsredjacket3191]

​@@curtishand6180 If anyone is "commanding" anyone to do anything within the confines of a marriage, especially without good reason, it would probably be best to dip. I'm just saying.

[@avapilsen]

Are you still married, happily?

[@moviesfan5513]

Don't submit to tyranny. Submit to respect.

[@cheezedoodlenygguh6229]

W0men should not have a choice.

[@markaurelius61]

Genesis 2:18 and 20: ezer kenegdo: A help at his level I think a simple way to explain the biblical idea of submission is just to use the word co-operation.

[@elizabethnewman2896]

What's wrong with fair, or dare I say, balanced compromise? I don't expect someone to submit to me, I have no interest in submitting to another. Submission, by definition is about superseding to an authority. My partner is not an authority over me, in any way. Neither do I hope to be over my partner. This insistence to maintain a hierarchy is beyond me, at least amongst adults. If you sleep in my bed, our bed holds equals.

[@JiraiyaSama86]

There's nothing inherently wrong with superceding to an authority. There is a difference between you submiting to a wise, competent, and considerate authority as opposed to you submitting to a tyrant. One is responsible and will look out for his crew, and is willing to share, while leading. The other is, colloquially speaking, just a dick who simply just sees those under him as beneath him in every way and seeks to just use them without caring much for if they live or die.

[@raenorton7709]

THANK YOU.

[@person1858]

@@JiraiyaSama86 By that logic there is nothing wrong with men submitting to wise, competent women either. But most men would find the thought distasteful, so why not do away with the heirarchical nonsense in the first place?

[@JiraiyaSama86]

@Person that's assuming that the women you're talking to ARE the wiser and more competent ones. But those are very rare and are the exceptions. There will always be exceptions, but the exceptions don't prove the rule. Women, in general, are more emotional in the sense that they allow their feelings to dictate the course of action. Biologically, they need to, to tend to the needs of a child. Men are generally less emotional and are problem solvers. They also can't afford to be more emotional as that would make them more dangerous than they already are. The mother would be forced to try to figure out some way to kill the father or get rid of him. You have someone who's naturally bigger, have stronger bones, have more muscle, better reflexes, along with other biological advantages, AND they're not in control of their emotional faculties; which makes them a loose cannon that can go off. Also, men who can't control their emotions are not men in terms of maturity. They're simply overgrown boys. Very dangerous overgrown boys. The best chance of stopping those individuals is men. The hierarchy exists out of necessity. I don't like it, but I understand it. You put a woman in charge, and what happens if the man steps out of line? If he realizes his capabilities and drops all restraints, he will hurt and possibly kill her. What, then? And if they're both "equal", but they disagree, who has the final say? Roll the die? Rock Paper Scissors? That's very impractical and inefficient. If they keep having such stalemates, nothing ever gets done or gets unnecessarily delayed. One has to lead. And the man has to work their way up to be worthy of taking the lead. That's the hard part. Earning that position of leadership. They have to be leaders, but they also must earn their position. That's the hard part. And, no! That's not an excuse to not do it. That's actually more reason to do it. It's hard, but if they do it, they'll become stronger and more capable of providing and protecting their families, and they'll have earned the position. You don't build confidence by saying it's too hard and use that as an excuse to not do something. What you do is try and gradually build that confidence. The confidence comes from you realizing how hard something was, but you did it anyway. You climbed the bl00dy mountain. Before you think about getting rid of the hierarchies, you should think carefully about why they were there in the first place. And assuming that some idiot, power hungry tyrant(s) put them there in the first place is just low res thinking.

[@person1858]

@@JiraiyaSama86 Firstly, men are not that much more rational. They just seem that way. Have you seen the number of men who do weird things because of their messed up emotions? Or the number of men who express all emotions as anger? Anger is also an emotion btw. So is loneliness. There are a great many men who are no better at controlling their emotions than women. They're just socialised and maybe also naturally less outwardly expressive about their emotions (which they still act on). It is true to an extent I'll give you that, but imo, you are greatly exagerrating the extent to which this is true, and greatly downplaying women's capabilities. Secondly, it is not at all rare for women to be wise. You are confusing masculine values like stoicism for wisdom. There is an entirely seperate and equally valuable feminine form of wisdom. All the relationships where the man is relying on the woman for all the emotional labour are examples of this. Then there is the question of "if both are equal, how do you resolve conflict?". With compromise. With trying to find win win solutions. With delegation of authority based on which partner is more competent at which area of life. It is true that these heirarchies did not get created for no reason. But whether people like to admit it or not. Things really have changed. People have changed. Female literacy was a massive shift. And about the whole men "leading" part. I think most of us men are best off when we move forward. But when we say "leading women", it necessarily has to be very responsive to what she wants. Tyranny is unsustainable. The word for this is decisiveness. After all, there is a reason the feminist movement happened in the first place. Women were not happy with how things used to be. I think any good man should have the empathy to take that fact into account.

[@nickt.7305]

He eloquently articulated the Bible’s message. The word submission will trigger some women unlike any other word. When we think of submission, we think of succumbing to dominance. It’s like an MMA fighter tapping out in a submission hold. The word means to be under (sub) the mission. We understand it in the sense of its use as a military term. In order for a military to be successful, everyone has to fulfill their role regardless of their rank. It has nothing to do with talent or intelligence. There simply has to be order in order for the military to be successful. We should think of submission more in the sense of having a cooperative spirit as it relates to our families. And let’s not forget that men are commanded to love their wives as they love themselves and as Christ loved the church. Love is self-sacrificial for both men and women. No one is diminished by the order of the Bible. If we don’t agree with what it says, it‘s due to a lack of humility and selfishness. Don’t get married if you’re selfish. You’re not ready to live a life with a “beneficial adversary.”

[@irishflutegirl9022]

Oh my goodness his wife is adorable ❤😊

[@evelanpatton]

Where we give credit to conceptualization we as a culture give a negative connotation to intuition- or feminine qualities which have been “conceptualized” as a “weaker” (or in the extreme a “hysterical”) reference because it is the least “conceptualized” or easily spoken about without (in most Western societies) to be “witchery” & thus “anti-GOD”; & YET the feminine is the MOST aligned (& possibly the “fear” of) to that of the nuance of spirituality. It IS MY HOPE with Jordan Peterson that we can RE:”context” FEMININE from a man’s point of view, as much as a man can do so without being the embodiment of (& understanding the consequences of context verse the unknowns). While critical of JP, I am a female who lovingly admired & respects this man’s GOD-essence. We need more conversations in the support of having dialogue about all that is the human condition, conditioning, & expansive evolution of an optimum society of citizens who are capable of facility & responsibility.