You think Politics ruined the Prequels? Well then you are lost...

[@Tool30301]

"This is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause." Still my favorite line in Star Wars

[@marcneef795]

Yes, it was theoretically the best part of the prequels. Just look up Otto Wels for historical equivalents. However, the execution was very poor.

[@CitizenScott]

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

[@jjhendo]

Yes, because thats what set off the damn Star Wars. Every movie cant be rebles running around having adventures; the story is actually deeper than that.

[@Steel-101]

Dude you’re spot on. I agree, every single Star Wars story shouldn’t involve the “underdog”. That’s the main problem with Disney Star Wars today. They are just obsessed with the whole rebels versus empire idea and it’s getting old. They should’ve gone with the original 3 heroes(Luke, Han, & Leia), rebuilding the Republic. That was the idea of the original script from George Lucas but Disney erased it.

[@jjhendo]

@Steel-101 Exactly. I was excited to see what else a SW movie could be besides an underdog story, and that's all we got!

[@MegaKnight2012]

So Uncivilized has a video on his KZbin channel, 'How Empire Turns Star Wars on its Head', and 'Why Palpatine is The Greatest Movie Villain Ever'. The videos explain how Lucas works off a lot of story inversions that make the larger narrative more important. That's why the Prequels have the protagonists serving a republic, which given the size, is basically an empire, and the Original Trilogy has rebels trying to restore it to before the corruption that Palpatine exploited.

[@jeremyfields9009]

Should’ve had Jedi running around on adventures then. The whole adventure, wonder, and mystery feel was completely gone from this trilogy. Oh wait we got that in TCW no wonder that was better received.

[@jjhendo]

@@jeremyfields9009 Stick to your cartoons then.

[@dereklopez9060]

Politics in the prequels didn't ruined anything, all it did was show how the Empire rose to power through political cunning.

[@Milothemighty10]

Exactly. It shows that the Emperor didn’t just come out of nowhere and take over the galaxy. He had a very thought out plan to do so…

[@jeremyfields9009]

The messy script ruined the prequels

[@teddy_westside81]

@@jeremyfields9009 the dialogue is pretty busted. Don’t get me wrong I love a lot of the one liners in the films. But there are a lot of bad performances and awkward dialogue especially with Hayden and Natalie Portman

[@russianoverkill3715]

Politics could've been done better. Remember imperial conference scene in Star Wars 1977? Now that was politics done right.

[@jimmneedle]

Def, there were lots of other problems.

[@doomsdayrabbit4398]

George was trying to warn us, just like another man who shared his name did in his final address to the nation a little more than 200 years before the prequels came out. A republic requires constant vigilance.

[@RDeathmark]

Don't forget Moody, Moody also tried to warn us

[@NIX-FLIX]

The politics made me fascinated as a kid, and I’ve actually grown up to become not exactly intimate, but familiar with political systems and the such

[@justinstewart7143]

This is a brilliant take. Palpatine won because the galaxy failed to see the truth....such a valuable lesson.

[@FTChomp9980]

The Politics in the Prequels added world building to it and not mention it was Fictional Politics as well.

[@Hanoua2]

I had the Phantom Menace on VHS when I was 9 year old, and I watched the movie 3 times in a row one day. I might not have understood most of the political dialogue, but I knew something important was going with the way it was filmed, like the way Palpatine was wispering in padme ear, pulling the string so he would become chancellor. I loved that movie growing up

[@stevena.7022]

Liam Neeson didn't understand it either. George Lucas just said "sound important''.

[@delrunplays2903]

Pretty much the same for me. As far as I was concerned, the Senate was a council of wizards uttering magic spells. I didn't understand how the spells worked, but I could tell they had very real effects.

[@GGBlaster]

@@stevena.7022lol yeah iirc Lucas pulled a similar stunt with the “I am your father” scene in ESB

[@vetarlittorf1807]

I love the politics of the prequels. But I WISH Episode III had included Palpatine's FULL speech when declaring himself emperor. For those curious, here is the full speech: "Citizens of the civilized galaxy! Senators! On this day we mark a transition. For a thousand years, the Republic stood as the crowning achievement of civilized beings. But there were those who would set us against one another, and we took up arms to defend our way of life against the Separatists. In so doing, we never suspected that the greatest threat came from within. The Jedi, and some within our own Senate, had conspired to create the shadow of Separatism using one of their own as the enemy's leader. They had hoped to grind the Republic into ruin. But the hatred in their hearts could not be hidden forever. At last, there came a day when our enemies showed their true natures. The Jedi hoped to unleash their destructive power against the Republic by assassinating the head of government and usurping control of the clone army. But the aims of would-be tyrants were valiantly opposed by those without elitist, dangerous powers. The war is over. The Separatists have been eliminated and the Jedi rebellion has been foiled. The remaining Jedi will be hunted down and defeated. Any collaborators will suffer the same fate. Those who protect the enemy are the enemy! Now is the time! Now we will strike back! Now we will destroy the destroyers! These are trying times, but we have passed the test. The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed, but I assure you, my resolve has never been stronger! The Clone War was our final test. It was the last gasp of the forces of darkness! Now we have left that darkness behind us forever, and a new day has begun! It is morning in the Republic! Never again will we be divided! Never again will sector turn against sector, planet turn against planet, sibling turn against sibling. We are one nation, indivisible! To ensure that we will always stand together, that we will always speak with a single voice and act with a single hand, the Republic must change. We must evolve. We must grow. In order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire for a safe and secure society! We are an Empire that will continue to be ruled by this august body! We are an Empire that will never return to the political maneuvering and corruption that have wounded us so deeply. We are an Empire that will be directed by a single sovereign, chosen for life! We are an Empire ruled by the majority! An Empire ruled by a new Constitution! An Empire of laws, not of politicians! An Empire devoted to the preservation of a just society. We are an Empire that will stand for ten thousand years! By bringing the entire galaxy under one law, one language, and the enlightened guidance of one individual, the corruption that plagued the Republic in its later years will never take root. Regional governors will eliminate the bureaucracy that allowed the Separatist movement to grow unchecked. A strong and growing military will ensure the rule of law. Under the Empire's New Order, our most cherished beliefs will be safeguarded. We will defend our ideals by force of arms. We will give no ground to our enemies and will stand together against attacks from within or without. Let the enemies of the Empire take heed: those who challenge Imperial resolve will be crushed. We have taken on a task that will be difficult, but the people of the Empire are ready for the challenge. Because of our efforts, the galaxy has traded war for peace and anarchy for stability. Trillions of beings now look forward to a secure future. The Empire will grow as more planets feel the call, from the Rim to the wilds of unknown space. Imperial citizens must do their part. Join our grand star fleet. Become the eyes of the Empire by reporting suspected insurrectionists. Travel to the corners of the galaxy to spread the principles of the New Order to barbarians. Build monuments and technical wonders that will speak of our glory for generations to come. The Grand Army has tackled the dangerous work of fighting our enemies on the front lines. Many have died in their devotion to the Empire. Imperial citizens would do well to remember their example. The New Order of peace has triumphed over the shadowy secrecy of the Jedi. The direction of our course is clear. I will lead the Empire to glories beyond imagining. We have been tested, but we have emerged stronger. We move forward as one people: the Imperial citizens of the first Galactic Empire. We will prevail. Ten thousand years of peace begins today."

[@azimuddin1890]

A bit too long, but still would’ve liked it.

[@stevena.7022]

Did that run on bad batch or is that novelized?

[@azimuddin1890]

@@stevena.7022 I assume the novelization because from what I remember watching the Bad Batch series, they used the audio from the Revenge of the Sith movie.

[@Tool30301]

For the sake of the movie they would have trimmed it down, but man this would've been golden

[@Daemonik]

The "ten thousand years" is a little on the nose, but still a good showing of the presentation given to those who cheered as they were chained.

[@politicscommentator]

I never found the discussion of politics within the Star Wars universe boring or pointless. It was necessary to understand why the characters were fighting for their cause or group. Plus Palpatine's manipulations were so well done. He definitely deserves to be considered one of the best villains ever created and Ian McDiarmid should be given all the praise in the world for his portrayal in the prequel and original trilogies.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

Difference between Prequel politics and sequel politics, George tried, not always successfully, to show a timeless theme about how republics fall and empires rise and bad men take power, be it Rome, France, or anywhere the old order fell and what replaced it was worse Sequel politics was whatever Twitter was mad about in 2015, 2017, and 2019 and aged like milk.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

The Roman Empire was actually a better place than the Roman Republic. Republican Rome was corrupt, suffered from constant wars and internal strifes and there was very little progress because oligarchs were constantly competing for personal glory. While imperial Rome had long-term planning, had better cultural exchange, a stable legal system, better education, better protection and less wars.

[@saberiandream316]

It's something JMS did far better with Babylon 5.

[@sebema3606]

​@@vetarlittorf1807true but only in the later stages of the republic kind of like star wars

[@icarusigaming]

Dont know If you mean Napoleon with france but that would be false because He Set the foundation of democracy and human right in Europe

[@hockey1973]

"George tried, not always successfully"

[@DamsilinDistress]

Love the politics. Particularly as I got older, turning 25 in 2000. And finally understanding that Emperor Sidious was playing both sides to everybody's detriment. And in such a diabolical way he took the galactic Empire as a hero.

[@pumaconcolor7301]

There are 2 types of despots. You have your Napeoleons and your Robespierre. Napeoleons, like Palpatine, just want power for power for the sake of power. Whether or not they end up being good or terrible leaders, they are ambitions, self centered and believe that they have to be in charge. Then you have your Robespierres, I'd argue like Anakin. They start out as idealists that are generally trying to do the right or noble thing to help people. But they end up getting corrupted by power and can often end up doing things just as awful.

[@skepticalsmurf]

I salute you sir… there’s a saying,absolute power corrupts absolutely… that is so true,no matter one’s original intentions…

[@kingorange7739]

@@skepticalsmurf Thing is it is debatable that Napoleon only wanted power for the sake of it. While Napoleon was power hungry, it is no secret how much he had a guanely care for France.

[@PhantomCookie]

Even as a kid when I didn’t even remotely understand the politics of the prequels, having the politics be there made me enjoy them more than I would have otherwise. I understood that there was some kind of democratic system that governs thousands of civilisations across the galaxy, and that Palpatine came in and somehow got all the Jedi killed and made himself emperor. Just knowing that was enough to appreciate that this is a galaxy with a rich and well thought out history that the prequels only showed a glimpse of, and that Palpatine was more than just a moustache twirling villain and was very cunning with a well thought out plan - despite not fully understanding what it was

[@YegRon]

I’ve never had an issue with in universe politics. I quite like them. It’s the in-your-face reflection of real world issues, from a specific angle, that I object to. And even then, should the story be excellent, the dialogue engaging and the acting well executed, I would tend to overlook it. The real issue I, and most fans I would think, tend to have is when mediocre writers and directors view their SW project as nothing more than a vehicle to advocate for their preferred agenda.

[@saberiandream316]

I think the problem most people have is that the politics are convoluted, unlike something such as Babylon 5, which was written far better.

[@marykateharmon]

@@saberiandream316 What exactly is so convoluted about Star Wars politics? Really, it's all rather simple. Doesn't even get into the complexity that Real world politics have.

[@zacharyclark3693]

I never thought the politics/senate scenes were bad, but I definitely appreciated them more when I got older. I actually would have liked a bit more depth, like what we got in various episodes in The Clone Wars. Fear of losing power made the Senate give up their Republic. Fear of losing the Republic made the Jedi protect it at the expense of seeing the trap laid by the Sith (and breaking their own code at times). Fear of losing the one he loved most made Anakin betrayed the Jedi.

[@ggt47]

They were the most realistic aspect of the war.

[@TheStarBazaar]

The political scenes were important. Without them we don't get Palpatine influencing Padme to overthrow Valorum. We don't get the understanding that the Trade Federation is basically untouchable. We miss the fact that Padme was trying to prevent the militarization of the Republic. We would actually miss a lot of Padme, Bail, and some important Palpatine moments that explain a lot of what's actually going on

[@GeekazonDeals]

I think what made it weird was that episode 1 was marketed as a kids movie basically so having complex politics was a bit jarring. Especially when you have pod racing, Jar jar binks and all that lol maybe if episode 1 maintained a mature tone throughout then the politics would have fit more neatly

[@thomaslacornette1282]

Episode 1 is like another useless movie. It barely introduce problems between commercial federation and the republic and one movie you didn't even really understand the problem between them. The two others are good.

[@GGBlaster]

⁠​⁠@@thomaslacornette1282 They literally put it on full display in the Senate scene. The fact that a commercial entity gets representation in the Senate is a huge issue that would naturally cause problems like what we see in the Phantom Menace. That problem being that said commercial entities can do almost anything they want and can leverage their influence in the government to get away with it.

[@thomaslacornette1282]

@@GGBlaster Yeah ok, but what's the point of invading Naboo in all this shit? That's sound like minor problem to such military events and again why Naboo.

[@johnhoran9840]

@@thomaslacornette1282 Why Naboo? Palpatine was from Naboo, and it not only allowed him to get much needed "air time", it also garnered him sympathy when the time came to elect a new Chancellor.

[@rem134]

@@thomaslacornette1282 It had to be Naboo It was the only way for Palpatine to be insured to be elected Chancellor. Once he was elected then the civil war could break out where he gained even more power. Eventually he got position where he could safely eliminate the the Jedi.

[@azimuddin1890]

No, I think it enhances The Phantom Menace to Revenge of the Sith, and A New Hope and onwards.

[@seancrowley3142]

I loved the politics. In fact, we probably needed a bit more. There was this great deleted scene in ROTS, with Mon Mothma, Padme and one other (I forget who) where they were talking with Palpatine and Skywalker was standing behind him, and they were basically trying to determine when he was planning on laying down his power. Awesome scene, wish they would have included it.

[@GarrettTheViking]

Bail Organa was the other one in that group. I loved all the deleted scenes with those characters, as it's basically showing us the beginnings of the Rebel Alliance and that Padme helped start it.

[@MegaKnight2012]

The politics were fine in the Prequels. From a young age, before even 10 years old, I'd learned about taxation, thanks to history of the American Revolution. There was also learning about the Civil War and how Julius Caesar rose to power (Palpatine's inspiration). Lucas gave kids more credit that they might understand the politics and it felt pretty straightforward. (There's some great music videos of Breaking Benjamin's song 'Had Enough' set to Anakin. The lyrics fit ridiculously well to him, how he's greedy, how he had to have it all, and being left in his misery).

[@Alex-vp4ky]

8:02 i know this part isnt the focus of the video but what the jedi truly missed is that while justice is blind, humans are not. While they were meant to be keepers of the peace and arbiters of the republic, they are meant to act with compassion and "love" not stoicism and doctrine. Yes the doctrine exists to protect the order and to raise padawans in the right path, but the truth is a droid could serve as a "neutral" party and be exactly what the prequel jedi acted like. A 3rd party that served the republic but didnt "interfere". But the force "chooses" to interact with lifeforms and gives them the ability to bend reality a bit all for the sake of preserving and choosing life. A droid would act 100% according to a code. But a living being can choose compasion or forsee potential and invest in such outcomes. Its this mindset that the jedi lost and couldnt act upon. I mean while not their job, the fact that slavery openly exists in outer rim worlds and the jedi do nothing to act upon it (even tho its outlawed by the republic) shows their lack of compassion. Sure outer rim worlds arent republic territory or republic has less jurisdiction, the jedi are still a 3rd party. The jedi are meant to be paragons of hope and altruism. They certainly could be doing more. But thats where they fell in the 100 yrs before TCW. Missing how to serve the force and better the ppl and not just the agendas of a corrupt system

[@PsychotoasterProd]

I remember when Empire came out and suddenly New Hope was labled Episode Four, and everyone was going "Wait, 4? Where is 1, 2 and 3?" George said something like "4-6 is where the action bits are. If I started with 1-3 people would complain about all the politics and talking and the movie would flop" - or words to that effect. So he kind of knew what side his bread was buttered on. Me, I'm fine with all that world building. If anything 7-9 needed WAAAAAY more talking and less Pew Pew.

[@Novacification]

The politics are part of what I love the most about the prequels (and the extended universe). It makes the story more grounded and shows that the Sith are masters of manipulation; able to corrupt the pillars of society from within. It also highlights how there are no easy solutions, when people and places have their own agendas and motivations. The universe feels alive in the prequels and in the extended universe.

[@istari0]

Politics is essential to the PT. Stripped to its core elements, the plot of the PT is fascinating. It was the actual translation of it to the big screen that was at times lacking.

[@BoiiCrunchy]

I never “hated” the politics in the prequels growing up. I just didn’t give them much thought. But the older I got, the more I was able to understand what was actually going on and realized how BRILLIANT palpatine was on a grand scale. The politics during the prequel era are SEVERELY underrated.

[@Yosemite_sam694]

So tell me what actually going on? Besides people saying the words trade federation over and over and that’s supposed to lead me to understanding the world . Nah

[@BoiiCrunchy]

@@Yosemite_sam694 lol did you watch the video explaining it for you? Or did you just come here to argue with people.

[@raiderlove5923]

I did feel like that when I was in my late teens early twenties when they first came out in the theater. As I got older I began to understand that you have to start somewhere. Also I began to learn that having politics a part of the story it makes the whole trilogy feel somewhat real life like.

[@TheKeyser94]

About the "benevolent dictatorship" that was briefly mention in Attack of the Clones, when Anakin mentions the idea of the Philosopher King, someone wise and old, that rule everyone, only that is basically a dictator, and that he crush dissidence.

[@nichlaschristensson1055]

Before I finish this video, I can say NO. We needed this politics in the prequels for the fall of the Republic to make sense. And also it was a great part of it to see how Palps manipulated everyone.

[@The-Duggernaut]

Regardless of politics, it just shows how much was thought about that led to the Empire that we knew, but also showing a stark difference in writing between the prequels and sequels

[@abthedragon4921]

This is one criticism I always dread hearing about. Now granted, the politics were not the most interesting things in the Prequels when I was first getting into Star Wars, that was the action so when characters in the movies were mostly just talking, I sometimes skipped those scenes so I could get to the battles and duels which is what I wanted to see. And I think that's one reason why I got more enjoyment out of watching the Prequels than the original trilogy because the action was grander in scale. Same with the Clone Wars, some of my favorite episodes as a kid were arcs that were battle centric like the Battles of Geonosis, Mon Calamari and Umbara! Now, as I've grown older the political aspect of the Star Wars universe has grown on me and like Thor says it adds a lot of much needed context to the story. The story of the prequels isn't just about Anakin falling to the dark side, it's about the Republic turning into the Empire and showing just how a democracy can become a dictatorship under certain circumstance. Now sure, could Lucas maybe have woven these scenes into the Prequels a little better, oh definitely! But when I see people say stuff like the politics make the movies boring or drag them down, I can't help but roll my eyes.

[@GAdmThrawn]

I think that's what I'm going to say every time I see a video or comment convinced that the Jedi were in actuality evil and that that Anakin had a point. Anakin/Darth Vader, mass-murderer, Sith Lord, killer of children, sociopath: "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" Obi-Wan, Jedi Master, loyal, all-around good guy, teacher: "Well then, you are lost!" To think that Darth Vader had a point or is in the right here, is like saying that Hitler had a point about the Jews.

[@debelmeis2311]

People don't have patience for narrative

[@JediHangout]

The politics is what caused the action of the films. It's a very integral part of the story and gave such detail on how Palpatine rose to power. If we got all action and no politics in the Prequels, it wouldn't have made sense as to how he got all this power. I also like how it does a lot o reflection on true life politics. Someone who has worked in Academia and the Arts my entire life, I have seen this happen all too often. Lots of politics there. And like you, I did wish there was a bit more politics (even in the original trilogy). The one thing that I really feel that should have not been deleted from Revenge of the Jedi is where Mon Mothma, Padme, Bail Organa and others were discussion rebellion. "That too is an integral part of politics.

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

I had zero issues with the politics in TPM. I knew it was coming as Palpatine's rise to power is in the prologue of the 1977 original novelisation of Star Wars or what's called now A New Hope. I had read the OT novelisations many times before the PT came out. The prologue is supposedly written by George while the rest of the book was ghost written by Alan Dean Foster. While it does differ some to what happens in the PT, there's no mention he was a scheming Sith but what is consistent is how Palpatine rose to power, the after bit is less consistent with the later films of the OT. It's almost like George had a plan all along. From the prologue: "So it was with the Republic at it's height, like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from outside. Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and restore the the remembered glory of the the Republic. Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace."

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Makes sense there's no mention of Palpatine being a Sith, that wasn't set in stone yet if I remember right.

[@lordcarnorjax8599]

@@CrazyxEnigma Correct. There's a single reference to Vader being a Dark Lord of the Sith in the orginal 76 novelisation but it's not explained. The first Internet search I ever performed in the early 90's was for Sith. I think the next mention of Sith was Dark Empire in 91 before Tom Veitch then expanded on it in Tales of the Jedi in 93.

[@Dendricklystable]

I think that there actually should have been mkre politics. I wish they went into more of the seperatists motivations shouod have been shown rather than having them be implied

[@nixneato]

I totally agree with you in this one. I'll have to be a bit of an elitist here. Only a few will get how this is a cautionary lesson in history, and well told (political scenes are very limited), but yeah, the vast majority will be like "No pew pew? Then it sucks, amI right?"

[@MCsCreations]

More than that, Thor, this way they showed us how Palpatine turned Anakin to the dark side. Showing us how persuasive and manipulative he was.

[@MMZERO9]

Personally, I feel the politics were a necessity. When I started watching the classic trilogy on VHS in the late 90s I always wondered how the Emperor came to power, how was Luke and Leia’s father seduced by the Dark Side of the Force? How were the Jedi wiped out with only a few exceptions? Obi-Wan and Yoda were very vague about it even when Luke called Kenobi out in ROTJ. And then when the prequels came out that’s when the pieces began to come together. And then when the Clone Wars animated series came out that was when the entire picture was made clear, and it turned out to be *anything* but the way Yoda and Obi-Wan explained it. Now Kenobi tried to say it was “from a certain point of view” but to me that line feels more like an excuse to deflect/get around the question why. And while Obi-Wan may have been trying to look out for Luke’s best interest, I also feel there was a part of him that was also trying to protect the Jedi Order’s image. Plus the politics also allows Padmé and her delegation to try and save the Republic, though none of them realized just how deep the Sith had sunk their proverbial claws into the Republic, and that Sidious was just the culmination of a millennium-long plan conceived by Darth Bane. But that’s one thing I don’t think Padmé ever allowed herself to process-the Republic had been lost long before she was born and as such she and her colleagues were fighting a losing battle. And as the sequel trilogy showed-Padmé and her delegation’s political efforts to save the Republic ended up being for naught.

[@cerulee]

I think the political scenes are very ominous. If you watched the OT you can see just how, bit by bit thanks to Palpatine's deceit, the Empire is set up to fail, like demolitionists carefully placing TNT in specific locations in a building to take it all down with several simultaneous blasts acting as one.

[@Steel-101]

The prequels did a great job when it came to world building and showing the broken political structure of the old republic. It’s really cool how they showed the Republic slowly wasting away and eventually becoming the empire. It does get dull in certain parts but overall it’s really good. Also I agree the Disney sequels were boring because we didn’t know the state of the galaxy at all. We didn’t see the full power of the republic or the powerful political ties of the first order. It really is just a copy & paste of The originals but without any details(with poorly written characters).

[@Alex-vp4ky]

I think the disconnect with the politics is that its not based on our heroes. Nothing tethers the scenes to our main cast. But imagine a "legends of the sith" series that opposite of tales of the jedi, highlighted palpatines story thru the prequels. Yeah basically the darth plageus novel animated, but add more scenes during AotC or during the clone wars. Just more depth to the political actions and scenes of the prequels to get a greater sense of why/what is happening Cause yeah politics are important but if casual watchers cant translate the verbiage into meaning or cant relate to a character on screen, then it becomes a bunch of words that most ppl tune out. So making a series focus around how palpatine manipulates everyone including the law around him to serve his needs would make those scenes faaaar more meaningful. In TCW, tup discovering the inhibitor chip and all of it was exciting despite much of it not containing action and much of it revolving around medical jargon. But because we know how this event relates and affects our main cast, we become so much more attuned to all the details.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

This is a good point.

[@saberiandream316]

Do you mean the Old Republic comics from the EU or Filoni's theft of the name and logo for his Ahsoka series?

[@carycunningham9510]

Politics in the prequels was a warning - that tragically fell on deaf ears.

[@lewatoaofair2522]

“All the dialogue says is ‘Slavey, Trade Routes, Separatists, Sith Lords’ I just wanna grill for Jedi’s sake!” -Average prequel detractor, probably

[@saberiandream316]

In the novel, Palpatine raises a valid point about how the Jedi refuse to accept Jedi older than infants. It's a view even Yoda himself came to realize was flawed and needed to be changed.

[@JacobHolt106]

I always enjoyed the politics of the Prequels because it expanded the Star Wars universe and gave important warnings to the audience. Even well established Democracies can quickly fall if people do not vigorously protect them (even more broadly that long standing institutions, like the Jedi can quickly fall if not vigorously protected). Anakin’s story warns us that the biggest threats are not always evil people, but people like Anakin that originally well meaning, but in their zeal they destroy what they initially want to protect. Plus, it is shown that politicians using fear to promote their need for power are using it to help themselves not protect the people (in essence showing the Benjamin Franklin warning that a person who would trade their liberty for security deserves neither). That is why I respect the politics of the Prequels; they teach important lessons that are timeless.

[@mcash232]

Epic Fantasy and it's cousin Space Opera have always involved some level of in-universe "politics" (often because they involve Nobles/Royalty or relations between bodies of people, both of which are inherently political). The problems the Prequels face have more to do with other story elements like characterization/direction and some lesser elements of the premise or story. In short, the Prequels have issues with presentation, not politics.

[@spinelessmoderate8715]

My main problem with the prequels is the way Anakin and Padmé's story was written. A lot of their dialog seems clunky, awkward, and just flat-out poorly written. I didn't mind seeing how Palps took over. I found that part of it interesting. I also liked seeing him manipulate Anakin, dropping little seeds of doubt. We got to see Papa Palpatine play Anakin like a fiddle.

[@aaronconway5404]

Hey Thor! I'm so happy to hear you refer to Palpatine as the greatest sith of all time. I hear people say how Nihilus, Sion, Vitiate, Revan etc... as the greatest smiths of all time. The very lore of Star Wars is that Palpatine exists within the fiction specifically to be the greatest or most powerful sith there has ever been.

[@Flaris]

I didn't mind it. Sure politics did steer the direction of events. But yeah. It's a story where the Sith take over the Galaxy and convinces the Republic that it's a good idea. The first movie was heavily impacted by the events on Naboo and Palpatine using it to advance his career. The second is influenced by the start of a Galactic Civil War and the maneuverings of the Sith to set the stage. And obviously the third is influenced by the outright takeover and the end of that Civil War. Politics absolutely is there. But it's still plenty action packed. And that's the point. One trilogy was about taking down that Empire. And the other covers the rise of it. They didn't spend all their time in the Senate. Just enough to get across what was going on.

[@joshuamininger7745]

Totally true!! I never understood why people hated on them for all the politics. I was like, “man, don’t you see the point? It’s the whole lesson of the story! It’s how good things can go bad! Good people, good systems, good regimes. They can all go bad! I think this is happening today in our modern world, we are losing our freedoms, and people are giving it thunderous applause. George Lucas thought so also, and despite what some say about him being supposedly anti American, or something, he was actually seeing what was happening in our government and corporate politics way before the general population did! And he wrote a story about it.

[@insane_troll]

The greatest Sith of all time? What about Darth Vitiate? He was emperor for over a thousand years; Sidious was only emperor for about 20. "My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me… My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium-it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars."

[@debelmeis2311]

I'd have to agree with this assessment

[@taqresu5865]

I would also like to point out that the in-universe political discourse was also present in the OT. Leia's mission in A New Hope was disguised as diplomatic envoy, and in the same film, the Imperial senate was mention as being dispatched off screen. Even the Clone Wars were mentioned in A New Hope. The seeds of Lucas' world building were there since the beginning.

[@Tomtit_Andy]

Totally agree with you. Politics in prequels were one of my favorite parts of- to know how and why, and to see that it was very realistic and very believable.

[@Deuteromis]

I love how there were people talking about how The Prequels were ruined by politics and keep saying that's all they ever did in the films was talk politics. Do you know how much time total politics is talked about in all 3 movies? About 15-20mins. Another argument I hear is how the politics didn't make any sense or were hard to understand, like specifically in Ep1 with the blockade. If they paid attention it was pretty easy to understand.

[@darksycho]

This is a good one. Very understated in the community, I think.

[@theanonymouscritic1710]

Saying that there’s “too much politics” in the Prequels is ridiculous. I always enjoyed that aspect, I felt it added a lot of depth and texture to the Star Wars Galaxy.

[@panthrax555]

Really, the politics of the prequels directly mirrors the actual stupidity of the real masses today.

[@eds1942]

It’s worth remembering when the prequels came out. AotC came out 1/2 a year after 9/11, and RotS came out during the Bush wars. And it’s clear to see the influence when you consider Lucas’ political leanings; Everyone knew that Bush would take us back to Iraq within the first 2 years. I knew buddies that voted for him based purely on that. He asked for emergency powers. We were asked if we were willing to sacrifice some of liberties for security. The overwhelming majority of Congress was completely behind Bush in the early years post 9/11. Meanwhile there were concerns about how politically connected and bias, pro-war and dogmatic the church had become. As a veteran and a Republican voter and evangelical (both of these later at the time) each of those plot points left me a little sore, when combined with some of Lucas’ statements. But since, I have come to appreciate what Lucas was talking about, understanding just how fragile democracy can be and how quick and easy it is to convince a large segment of the population how “righteous” such a decline to authoritarianism, imperialism, nationalism and racism can be.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Y'know what's funny to? The Patriot Act, nobody in Congress bothered to read it in its entirety not before it was signed and already enacted anyway.

[@eds1942]

@@CrazyxEnigma yep. And they had no Darth Jar Jar to place the blame.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

I love these videos taking a 2nd look at the kinda myth of Prequel Hate or reasons to hate the Prequels.❤ Sure the Prequels weren't perfect, but they at least had direction.

[@gonzaw8539]

If George would have released the prequels during the cold war they would call him a communist.

[@emberfist8347]

No in the 1970s such a plot was the rule.

[@Sci-Fi-Mike]

Possibly? Suggesting that a democracy would become a fascist government would have gained the attention of J. Edgar Hoover.

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Yep Hoover would've put him on a list for sure.

[@delrunplays2903]

Whilst taking notes on Palpatine's success.

[@ADDOITALLDAY]

The politics is what I enjoy the most. It gives the galaxy more of a realistic feel.

[@Ghibli-Dude]

I think that it had the perfect amount of politics. And I'm glad that it's in-universe politics as that makes it more universal.

[@JohnArceane]

As a young person who grew up with the Prequels while coming into adulthood within a televised and interconnected society like ours, the politics of the films genuinely never failed to intrigue me both as a child who didn't quite understand all of it but saw the emotional responses of the characters and KNEW things were going wrong, and now as a young adult who sees the trilogy for what it is: a piece of cinematic tragedy that reflects real life with nuance and uncomfortable clarity. Makes me wonder what movies my peers and those in the generations around me have been watching, to see these movies and then NOT feel compelled to compare and contrast them to the modern political field of discussion.

[@cayreet5992]

I have to admit that I needed some time to get around to liking the prequels more - they weren't 'my' first Star Wars, as I've been born in '74 -, but I've always thought showing that Palpatine didn't come to power through pure force (with or without the capital 'F'), but 'by the book,' through legal means, was the perfect way to do it. What I'm sad didn't make it into the movies is that Padmé actually brought together those who would later on found the Rebel Alliance (there is a cut scene about that for 'Revenge of the Sith'), because that would make it clear that she, too, had a lasting political legacy (which even included her own daughter). I'm not sure whether the prequels should have had more politics, but the political aspect was certainly needed and expanded on the worldbuilding.

[@raztaz826]

Definitely grew on me with time. When I saw the prequels as a kid, it flew over my head, (though my dad explained some of it to me). But having followed The Clone Wars over time I really like the more interesting plot lines that prequel politics creates.

[@Daemonik]

The concept was essential, but there were elements of the execution that could have been done better. A recurring theme with the Prequels for me.

[@saberiandream316]

It's what happens in an echo chamber.

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

Ever since the Disney trilogy, the Prequel complaints, criticisms and overall hate lost a lot of power. For me personally, it took some time to truly realize and thus at least appreciate what I was watching when viewing the Prequel films, and I did. I love all six Star Wars movies equally for various reasons. The worst I can do is tolerate certain things like Kid Anakin’s acting, Jar Jar Binks or Anakin whining in the Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones, and no small part in that is understanding, such as Anakin being acted by a child who is likely an amateur naturally, Jar Jar playing a vital role in events or at least because he was made by George for his kids, or because Anakin is still immature and struggling with arrogance when he isn’t frustrated and grieving. That being said, like the Prequels or not, the criticism and all it received just doesn’t feel the same anymore in the face of the Disney Trilogy. I guess because it’s a thing, I’m simply done hearing them. It doesn’t work anymore. I used to see where they were coming from, now I more or less don’t get why people bother anymore.

[@jordanread5829]

Palps winning through politics is something I always liked about the prequels. It showed that the Sith adapted while the Jedi stayed content. Something that the Jedi believed would never happen. They always believed that the Sith would return through a big reveal. As Mace Windu said in The Phantom Menace, "I do not think they would have returned without us knowing".

[@TheManFromWaco]

If you want a series that goes all-in on the politics behind the all the star warring, I have to recommend "Legend of the Galactic Heroes". It's a Japanese space opera series built around themes of how democracies die in apathy, how tyrants are often created by the very masses they go on to oppress, and how good men can arise out of bad systems just as bad men can arise out of good systems. It's not a perfect series (it climaxes in the middle before tapering off in the last quarter or so, and the author writes insightfully about history and politics but devolves into an internet atheist when he tries to discuss religion) but the sheer amount of lore, plotlines, and character arcs that the story is able to weave together without out losing focus or momentum is incredible.

[@skepticalsmurf]

Fear is a strong motivator… those that don’t learn from history are condemned to repeat it…

[@cjstenzel]

I agree, I think why the sequels weren't loved right away was this in a nutshell: Anakin should've been shown as a child for the 1st 20 minutes, and there should've been a time jump, Jar-Jar was too silly, and episode 3 should've been episode 2, where episode 3 would've been Palps and Vader hunting down and killing the remaining Jedi, no silly order 66. Am I far off or near to hitting the nail on the head?

[@stevena.7022]

I still don't love them.

[@ultranel13]

To me, the highlights of the prequels were, the politics and fall of the Republic, the fall of Anakin, and the rise of Palpitine. Another great thing the prequels did for the OT, was making them timeless. Now it's easy to explain why the galaxy look so rundown and dated on Ep. IV. Also your explanation of the rise of Palpitine was spot on. Sadly we are today at a similar situation in the US were our democracy is at a fragile state. Between the anger, hate, divisions, lies and pretends within our own society; I would not be surprised if we let it die with thunderous applause.

[@SuicV]

I once timed the screentime of the senate in The Phantom Menace. It was just around 3 minutes. And still some people try and argue that the movie barely did anything but debate in the senate...

[@darthrage8673]

Watching Darth Sidious destroy the Galactic Republic and Jedi from the inside is terrifying because sounds like something the Devil himself would do.

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

Darth bane knew corrupting the republic was the best route for the sith to take.

[@Internatube]

Hilarious how those who claim the politics in Star Wars ruined the prequels are the same ones that claim lack of it ruined the sequels.

[@Feesh322]

The 'politics' part of the Prequels is what made them worth watching and not just generic science fiction. What else would you watch them for? The romance?

[@dwaynecuster]

It was the politics that interested me the most about the prequels. How did the Empire and Palpatine come to power? How did the Jedi fall? How and why did Anakin turn to the dark side? The prequels were a bit more cerebral than the OT. I love the OT more than any of the other films, but the prequels are 2nd on my list. Every time I read the Star Wars novelization back in 1976 my interest was piqued about all the machinations of the Republic, the Empire and the Rebellion. Heck, that's even why I devoured the West End Games Roleplaying books and Dark Horse comics. They filled in spaces that the films didn't have time to talk about. Perhaps it's more a statement of a generation or two that have lost the art of critical thinking and have the attention span of gnats.

[@Oscar-mh7ez]

I think the only part of the prequels that maybe needed to be fleshed out a little more was how the rebellion came together after the emperor’s speech and the destruction of the Jedi.

[@CouncilCape897]

Indeed. It's especially sad because 2 excellent scenes foreshadowing the birth of the Rebellion were filmed but didn't make the final cut.

[@herooflight7931]

It took me while to get it. But the politics as well as the clone wars gave strength to the prequels. Can't say the same for the Sequels they were all over the place. All sorts of bad

[@darwinskeeper421]

A few years after A New Hope hit the theaters, I read a novelization of the film and it started out by noting that the Old Republic had rotted from within. I suppose that's why the prequels, for their faults, still resonate with me. The Old Republic lasted for tens of millennia, but even it wasn't immune from corruption.

[@CouncilCape897]

The sequels?

[@darwinskeeper421]

@@CouncilCape897 Oops! I meant prequels resonate with me, I just typed the wrong word. The sequels show what happens when somebody approaches a trilogy with no plan and no clue.

[@johnpoulton9446]

It was a strange criticism for me as well! I really liked the depth and drama those scenes gave . I always looked at them similar the court scenes from A Few Good Men. Plus it really added to show how evil a villain Palps is! He planned and waited DECADES for his plan to take effect! THATS friggin faaaantastic! It’s also a reason that the PT won’t hold weight in the future. I watched the OT in the theatres and having watched Palps rise in the PT by the end of ROTJ and and he’s thrown down the shaft it’s has even more weight than it did prior to the PT. Great great stuff!!

[@richardziolkowski7246]

I think a good analogy for the OT vs the Prequels is LOTR and the Hobbit movies. When he made LOTR, Peter Jackson was still relatively unknown. He surrounded himself with a good team and set out to tell his story that would be a version of Tolkien's masterpiece that was in itself a masterpiece. Then he made the Hobbit movies and he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted and the product just wasn't as good. However my 15 year old son likes the Hobbit movies a lot because he saw them in theaters and they were new when he saw them as opposed to something that had already existed for a long time.

[@jonathanlittle9674]

At first I hadn’t actually noticed the prominence of politics in the prequels, it’s all just part of the (amazing, fantastic, great, captivating, enthralling) story to me. Even now when it’s discussed it just doesn’t seem out of place. The t lii of hit even make the fictional story more relatable.

[@thetraveler264]

Thor, one of your best videos! A definite return to form for you! Personally, any politician who tells me to hate or fear my fellow American is a politician I refuse to trust. For me, I see lessons of both History and the Prequels unfolding in our modern politics. Where one side claims to be the only one who can ‘save’ us for that which we have been told to fear. The real horror for me is this comes from my own party! And I am looking around at my friends and family who are (were) politically aligned with me and I question why can’t you see the con unfolding. And I am left with one answer. They willingly refuse to…. Same as the Jedi near the end. They refused to see the boiling pot they were in. Unwilling to accept their mistakes and change course before their order died. My parting question is, are we so unwilling to change course before our own world burns down around us?

[@kingorange7739]

Politics is not what ruined the prequels. Politics is the prequels. The entire plot is based on politics, it is what gives the films its purpose. OT purists tend to forget that ANH established the Empire did not come in and conquered the free loving democratic people. Democracy was given away, traded in for a promise of security and the prequels shows us how it was done. How one man was able to kill liberty for the sake of his agenda, and how many people fell in spite of their good intentions. Star Wars will forever have that going for it in a way no other series does. It turned the battle of Good vs Evil into an internal war instead of an external war.

[@lenircotia]

When I was young I wasn't bothered neither bored by the political sequences, because for me they were just there between action sequences and Jedi moments. But when I got older I paid more attention to the political sequences and loved them! For me, it was a matter of age to absorb every aspects of the movies

[@scotthunter2943]

The politics in Star Wars is one of my favorite aspects of the prequels. It was interesting as a young man noticing the early scene in A New Hope when it is mentioned that the senate was disbanded. I never noticed that scene until the prequels came out. I think the best story that LucasFilms could tell is Palpatine’s back story, but to do it right they would need to work closely with James Luceno, author of Darth Plagueis, and keep the story as close to his novel as possible. Also it would be best played out as a trilogy with a blockbuster budget. It should go without saying that LucasFilms would need a complete overhaul of personnel from top to bottom first. But the rise of Palpatine (including political manipulation) is the best Star Wars story not yet told through film.

[@bluemoondm8629]

The politics and showing the Old Republic/Jedi Order in the prequels is what truly opened up the lore. Thrawn started it and the prequels fleshed it out. I'll always be grateful for the amazing EU content we got because of the prequels.

[@TheSupremeSkill]

Politics are fine in the prequels; like in many epic stories, through politics can the power of evil be consolidated. I think the simple reason for the majority of those who do not like the prequels too eagerly is that they simply didn't care to know more deeply about the galaxy and how things elapsed; they were completely satisfied by the original trilogy. Often fleshing something out works only for those who want to dig deeper, but with many things, large amount of people are only interested to a degree. If you don't care about the creatures, vistas and backdrops to suck in the lore of the universe, probably half of the amusement is gone. The battle scenes may be neat generally, but they are certainly over the top for those who really like the way of the OG. Yet, the only real revelation for those who might be mildly interested in the beginnings, is how a man becomes the thing which is Darth Vader, which is epic to me and for others who remain positive on the prequels, but it's a long way getting there through three long movies and it all boils down to a somewhat cheesy fight scene, even if many like I can appreciate the choreography. It is just a matter of taste and what makes you thrilled - that's all fine. One additional note would be that the OG has darkness and despair in it, while the prequels are rather cheery, certainly better in-tune for those twelve year olds, but I digress, I think Star Wars fits for almost all age groups, but I won't deny the wacky and even upbeat side of the prequels, which makes them overall quite different.

[@JerryHazard]

No argument here! Brilliant take 🤘

[@jetblast190]

Empires don’t form and exist without politics!

[@adriflux7704]

The politics in the prequels are such a natural part of them that I didn’t even know there was a debate about them in the community. I live those movies in all their parts, and politics is just one of them. And I can see the argument against. I am one of those action junkies. But they just work and fit in, and that’s just the truth.

[@gameoverinsertcointocontin8102]

It could have been a great start for the sequel trilogy. A New Republic believing the Empire defeated and the remnants inconsequential rapidly demobilized. Then in episode 7 the Republic learns the Empire is back and has a lot more ships and soldiers than anticipiated. The Republic needs a new army and fast and is faced with a dilemma of many worlds not willing to go to war again or provide troops and ships. With the added dilemma of either restarting clone production or battle droids to get enough forces. Which deepens the rift between New Republic worlds and many declare themselves neutral. Episode 8 could have been the New Republic splintering under internal and external pressure and being reformed in 9.

[@x-winger9387]

It’s not that politics are discussed its the pacing of its discussion. Politics is in the OT. It’s right in your face. It just fits the proper pacing and gives the right amount of background. The key to covering the political aspect of the PT is lay it out in an intriguing and suspenseful way. This is done well in many political movies. It’s not deficit of action but improper pacing of the political plot of the story.

[@douglassharp4718]

There were many scenes cut that added to the politics of Star wars. I love reading the novelization of episode 3 and getting a full view of Palpatine's genius. He truly was a political genius. He maneuvered the Jedi and the republic and the separatists so skillfully that you couldn't help. Be impressed. He saw that the one Jedi who may be able to defeat him was Anakin and so he became Anakin's best friend. Anakin couldn't move against him anymore than he could move against Padme. It's very sad that people don't recognize the genius in the storytelling and writing that George Lucas has in telling Palpatine's story. I actually consider it the best part of the prequels. It is definitely something that the sequels did not understand.

[@fascistgamer6514]

This is why I can’t take the sequels worldbuilding seriously because they boil everything down to “because Palpatine.” Yes, he manipulated events in the prequels, but most of that was playing off of real problems within the system. The takeaway from the sequels is that if Palpatine actually died in ROTJ everything would be hunky dory.