Young & Damned & Fair: The Life and Tragedy of Catherine Howard | An Interview with Gareth Russell

[@thebuttonsblog]

Finished the book this morning - devoured it over three days. But what a great interview to accompany such a great book. Thank you for engaging with Gareth and for sharing your conversation.

[@marywells6048]

Please let us not forget how young Catherine was and how she was so unprepared to deal with the sociopath she was married to. If only she was able to understand that if she was able to wait just a few years, she could have had her hearts desire after the death of Henry. Poor kid.

[@JalaKamal]

She was young and shallow. But she had the basic knowledge that adultery was wrong. She exposed herself to the consequences of her wrongdoing. And in addition, she had the example of what happened to her cousin Anne Boleyn. And at that time, girls were more mature that our girls nowadays. The King grand mother, Margaret Beaufort was already a mother when she was just 13 years old. Once she told Culppeper not to confess to the priests what they had done, because Henry, as a Head of the Church, would know. She was cunning and unfaithful. She play with fire and she lost. Because she was also not too brilliant.

[@Kim-gv5bw]

Yeah,poor kid,but she was pimped by her relatives into becoming Henry's mistress and later Queen-against her will.But it was practically a crime to deny that narcissistic,obese,gluttonous dirty old man her bed.The only "evidence" that suggests she was in an adulterous relationship is ONE letter(in which there is no mention of a sexual relationship with Culpepper) and the testimony of the insane Jane Seymour,who,by all accounts was not a reliable witnes,having had a part in the downfall of her(innocent) sister in law Anne along with 5 other equally innocent people in 1536.

[@edithengel2284]

It was not really a matter of waiting (although obviously not coming near committing adultery would have been sensible in any event) because there was nothing she could do about what had happened in her past--it was inevitably going to come to light, and destroy Henry's ego when it did.

[@edithengel2284]

@@JalaKamal Margaret Beaufort's situation was not viewed as normal at the time, and should not be used to represent a standard of the day. What evidence is there that young women were more mature in those days? That seems rather a generality. Furthermore, as Gareth Russell explains in the interview, Catherine did not have to have committed adultery to have been convicted of treason--you only had to look to others (who might be influenced by the king) as if you were thinking about committing adultery.

[@bonusgolden12]

​@@edithengel2284If your life expectation is based on surviving childbearing, i think it's reasonable to assume that girls, unprotected by modern laws, might have had a dramatically different rate of maturation, post menstruation.

[@marshaprice8226]

Gareth Russell lays stress on the unfairness of the penalty Catherine paid for mistakes of judgement she made as a young girl that didn't warrant such a punishment. It is clear that Henry's ego was severely bruised and he was out for revenge. Not only did he push for her execution under bill of attainder, which allowed her no trial; but he also pushed parliament to enact a bill permitting the execution of someone who was mentally ill, which had previously been illegal. This led to the execution of Catherine's lady-in-waiting, Lady Rochford, who had suffered a mental breakdown.

[@moyrakeatings7878]

Yes - no fancy French swordsman for this poor girl!

[@ardiffley-zipkin9539]

I appreciated the discussion as a student of English History and tourist to London, other key-sites, and Europe. I recall walking along the haunted galley holding my husband hand even on a sunny afternoon.Thanks for the Great Q & A.

[@anniegetchergun]

What an incredible interview. Such thoughtful questions and no interruptions. Of course I now have to read the book!

[@Zephyrus555]

This was a fantastic interview. Catherine Howard has always been forgotten among all of Henry VIII’s wives and dismissed as a flighty teenager. This really piqued my interest and I’m off to buy the book now.

[@ElizabethF2222]

I agree. Such a fascinating interview!! I think she was an abused teenager, rather than an adulterous "harlot." Henry is at the root of all the evil doings at his court. The way he treated Katherine of Aragon, in particular, after she was a loyal wife and queen to him for over 20 years makes me sick!

[@garethrussell8333]

Thanks so much, James, I absolutely loved this interview. Such brilliant questions from an expert!

[@christinestudley3982]

Didn’t Cranmer interview Katherine at Syon House, not Hampton Court? Love your channel, subscribed 😀

[@meekMN]

I'm reading this book currently, and it's just fascinating!

[@ElizabethF2222]

I could listen to Gareth reciting the phone book! Wonderful podcast. I read somewhere that this portrait may not be of Catherine Howard, but is actually Jane Seymour's sister, Elizabeth, who later married Gregory Cromwell (Thomas Cromwell's son). Wonder what your opinion is on this? Thank you for the upload and much love from Houston, Texas! (Yes, some of us Texans are very interested in Tudor history. LOL

[@leanie9660]

Actually, I believe that the disputed picture is the one showing what is obviously a much older (and seriously unattractive) woman (with Jane's double chin)www.theanneboleynfiles.com/mary-boleyn-and-queen-elizabeth-ii/

[@sandraobrien8705]

I would like to read Catherine's confession in full.

[@Inkedscales]

I enjoyed every moment of this interview. I will need to read Y&D&F

[@dragonclaws9367]

I have enjoyed his book so much that I read it more than once. ❤ She could have lied about who made her that flower. She was honest. It's Rochford I wonder at. She never was far from trouble. I wanted to be Kat's friend by the end to be honest. To stand up to a stalker is admirable. When I think of her in that cold place in February it breaks my heart. My birthday is around then and it's a bleak time even in America. She's fully human because of your work honestly.

[@margyrowland]

Gareth can tell an engaging story. Love from Australia 🇦🇺

[@annkelly0072]

Fantastic interview! Just ordered the book.

[@denisehill7769]

Enjoy it - I couldn't put it down. An excellent tribute to Catherine.

[@Min61449]

The indictment against Catherine does not cite adultery rather it says that Catherine taking Dereham into her service once she became Queen was proof that she meant to return to her “evil”ways.

[@verak66]

Thank you for the interview. Riveting. Truth is I never liked Catherine all that much, thinking her a fool. The book is incredible. So well written. Can't put it down. Still don't care for her all that much. I never thought any of them deserved execution. But after reading the book, I have a lot more sympathy for her situation. And I've never liked Thomas Culpeper (Culpepper) either, thinking him an opportunist. Given all that, none of them deserved death for foolish and/or icky behavior. Thanks again!

[@epayne48]

Their actions were immoral not "icky"!

[@happybunny8704]

Yes…Anne of a thousand days got me hooked on the Tudors …Genevieve Bujold and Richard Burton best Anne and Henry pairing ever…

[@diannaholiday9086]

As the second cousin of Ann Boleyn, how did the similarity (or differences?) between she and Ann play a part? Was there anything like a close resemblance and/or a similarity of temperament?

[@daynascangarello4810]

thank you for this this is exactly what i needed for my history project🦶🏻💪🏿

[@thebuttonsblog]

Just beginning Chapter 4 - enter the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk!

[@annalisette5897]

My first thoughts about Catherine Howard are, 'how could she be so stupid, and didn't she learn anything from the history of her cousin Anne Boleyn?' On the other hand I don't think she had 'carnal knowledge' with the men after her marriage to Henry. There is something I have never seen suggested. There is indication that Henry may have had sexual difficulties dating back as far as with Anne Boleyn. He apparently could not/would not consummate the marriage with Anne of Cleves. Did Catherine Howard momentarily kindle his fire, only for him to relapse soon after? If he was able to perform with her, surely she was expected to get pregnant. She was his last chance to get another son. If he became unable, might she have consulted old male friends to get suggestions on ways to improve Henry's abilities? That makes a lot of sense. Other than that, whichever of the men readily admitted he intended 'carnal knowledge with the queen', IMO, impresses me as a lover with the attitude, if I can't have you, nobody will.' IMO, with that statement he made sure to doom them both. For what it is worth, there is a mental health term called 'limerance' which describes the love at first sight/head over heels in love feeling as very similar or the same biologically as addiction. Concerning Catherine, I don't know if she was 'in love' with any of the men. And I cannot understand how she was so misused when she was young. Why her and why were no older ladies protecting her? Her behaviour reminds me of young women I have known whose only concept of affection was sex at a young age. Maybe Catherine's young life was so devoid of affection that sex looked very appealing. If Catherine's only knowledge of affection was sexual, and if Henry became unable to perform, she may have been devastated, believing her only value to him was gone. I have known young women like that. Maybe she simply sought advice and reassurance from former lovers or male friends.

[@jennj7208]

I agree with you a lot! I personally feel drawn to Catherine, most probably due to my own experience of childhood abuse. Obviously I am not her but I believe some trauma responses are similar, so I think to a degree I feel for her. If she had no help or acknowledgement that what Mannox (not sure about how it's written) did to her was abuse, she may have not even been aware of how that would impact her. Children need attention, love, guidance. And then she meets Francis, as a teenager one can get excited about the idea of receiving attention, of being wanted, and as you said, of affection. But at a point where she needed someone who truly looked out for her (and therapy, lol) she had men who could take advantage. And she may have thought she loved them all, and they loved her, because she didn't know what selfless love was. Truly saddening. Thanks for sharing your response, I loved reading it!

[@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289]

Looking at her portrait, Katherine had a demure kind of beauty that seems to engage the eye so much more than Anne Boleyn's portraits.

[@johnday6392]

I don't think there are any true life portraits of poor Catherine Howard.

[@morganmiller5413]

@@johnday6392 None of Anne Boleyn either

[@johnday6392]

@@morganmiller5413 That is correct.

[@wednesdayschild3627]

@@johnday6392 yes there are. Th one in the thumbnail. For Anne Boleyn the most happy medal is contemporary.

[@maryw246]

On further analysis, what in the world was she thinking. Truly her “crimes” did not warrant the death penalty, however, was she aware of the monster she was married to? If only she was able to wait a few years, she would have all that she desired. Love, power, and possibility a long life was hers for the taking. My heart aches for her.

[@RiaLake]

This portrait reminds me of Scarlett Johansson.

[@jardon8636]

would it be possible. to do a video about the countess daubney *lady catherine howard*...

[@eduardpena6580]

I would like to have discussions about who the executioners were who did the deed of ending the lives of the queens and nobles in the Tudor times. Were they part of the royal guards or royal army? I think this would be interesting conversation.

[@sweeetlikesugarvenom]

Is gonna ever release and Italian edition ?

[@annalisette5897]

A bottom line is, Katherine was a married woman and adultery, or the appearance of such, was unacceptable. What would have happened to her if she was married to a tradesman or a peasant, and her husband learned she was meeting men in secret and writing compromising letters? How many errant, or merely accused, wives were beaten or killed within the ranks of commoners? King Henry just had the ability to create a spectacle of the punishment.

[@georgeshepherd3381]

Feb 13 was a Friday that year...

[@angelwings7930]

The book is excellent but it was disappointing and bizarre of the author to add the modern and annoying term “baby bump” to a book about Tudor history ….talk about jarring and awkward. Otherwise it was completely fascinating and well done.

[@garethrussell8333]

Hi, I'm sorry you felt that way, but it's not a modern phrase. It's a very old one here in Ireland, which I've since discovered is not to everybody's taste. Thanks for your comment and for reading the book, I very much appreciate it.

[@LindaLinda80Linda]

Is it possible Culpepper was being ‘blackmailed’ by Queen Catherine Howard? She was the one with the power. He had.a great position with Henry he wouldn’t want to lose. She could see that happen if he didn’t go along.

[@gingerlee618]

thank you she is my 13th Great grandmother

[@Wrexham_AFC]

How is that possible when she didn't have any children...?

[@morganmiller5413]

It would be more than 13 as well

[@vanessareagan3497]

With all due respect, that’s not possible because Catherine had no children.

[@tesssanders7993]

been without Elizabeth I? Remove that part of the story. What you're left with is a queen who ousted a loyal, kind, much loved Queen, loved by all her companions and people. Anee was disliked by everyone (except Henry for awhile) even her father, aunt, ladies, uncle, everyone. She didn't even try to be kind or do nice things other than required) instead she adopted the phrase “Aisi sera groigne qui groigne” (Let them grumble; that is how it is going to be) She as cruel besides, wanting Mary beaten and Queen Catherine poisoned. Given her personally I believe she was guilty of adultery maybe not five but there was something that changed quickly and something bad. Without Queen Elizabeth I, I'm not sure we would know much about her maybe as a footnote. Those around Elizabeth and wanting to please her began to rewrite her mother's story and called her "saintly" thought it seems Elizabeth didn't want to push the story too far. I still wonder what if Anne Boleyn died childless? What then?

[@graphiquejack]

I won't pick apart everything here, because you are clearly determined to believe the worst in her. What I will say is that you seem to blame Anne for 'ousting' Katherine and are giving Henry a free pass? Remember, Anne said NO for a year and only agreed to any type of relationship with him because he finally proposed marriage. To claim this was using her sexuality as bait to lure the king to marriage is ludicrous. Yes, in hindsight we know that's what ended up happening, but just how exactly did Anne KNOW that Henry wouldn't release her when she refused him? Does every man become obsessed with every woman who says no to them? She said no to Thomas Wyatt for sure and probably others and eventually they all gave up. But Henry was selfish and stubborn, though this side of him wasn't really known before his relationship to Anne. Presumably all the woman he slept with before her consented (even if possibly secretly unwillingly) so I don't think Anne was granted powers of premonition of the future that somehow Henry wouldn't let her go. I would argue that rather than Anne manipulating Henry, it was Henry who was sexually harassing her, and she didn't have the power to get away from him. By the time he proposed to her, what was she going to do? He clearly wouldn't let her marry anyone else by that point, and people were already spreading rumours that there was a relationship between them. In my mind, she could either choose marriage to Henry or a nunnery, and that's about it. With those two options, I don't blame her for picking the crown. Yes, there are tales of Anne's 'cruelty', but most of these are spread by her enemies and you have to consider her position... she was neither queen nor mistress... her reputation was ruined whether she slept with Henry or not, and it was looking increasingly unlikely that the annulment would ever be granted. That's probably going to put a lot of stress on you, especially after six to seven years of being in limbo, and her enemies certainly didn't play pattycakes with her and play nice, either. Anne tried repeatedly to make amends with Mary but she was rudely rebuffed every time. I can't blame Mary... she wouldn't want to blame her own father for the cruelty she was subjected to, but it was all Henry's fault, clearly, because even after Katherine and Anne were dead, Henry continued to demand complete submission of Mary. And in all the actors in this great tragedy, perhaps you might consider that it wasn't Katherine, Mary or Henry who expressed regret or had any kind of self reflection of their actions, but Anne did. To me, that shows that she was the true 'Christian' out of all of them, someone who was willing to admit when they made mistakes and asked for forgiveness. And where, pray tell, is your evidence that Anne committed adultery? I guess you know better than virtually every historian who has picked apart source materials and concluded that there's no legitimate evidence of actual wrongdoing? There's also no evidence that her father hated her and her uncle was, by pretty much everyone's opinion in the Tudor court, a raving a-hole.

[@happybunny8704]

Superb response !