Young Vivian Balakrishnan Faces Off With Shanmugam

When this debate happened 32 years ago, 29-year-old Vivian Balakrishnan had not joined the People’s Action Party (PAP) yet.
In a verbal spar with the then 31-year-old K Shanmugam, he raised the issue of the perception of loyalty to the nation with regard to certain segments of Singapore society.
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[@brandenburg2388]

Fast-forward 32 years later, isn't it ironic that Shan and Vivian find themselves in the same boat over the Ridout Road colonial bungalows saga?

[@Jack-hy2ki]

Haha. This saga is stupid. Paying rent and kena from stupid ppl. Worst is the stupids follow the stupid.

[@andrewsitu3472]

😂

[@yeowchongong5608]

Classic “Animal Farm”

[@freddiemercury2075]

@ brandan, investigations was done, the CPIB was involved and the authorities found no wrong-doings.

[@Fakeslimshady]

No no, no such saga happened. It's a matter of perception! You feel that Ridout Road was a saga, that's all

[@中華傲訣]

Vivian was once a debater for a school or university and i remembered watching the debate on TV in the 1980's.

[@andrewsitu3472]

Can't believe Snake Man was 28 when he entered politics. But he kept rather low profile until 2008 when he was elevated to the Cabinet. Later got allegedly spotted cavorting with Foo Mee Har at Rendezvous Hotel by a staff member and the viral thread on Sammyboy forum came about.

[@arieladelinechoo9845]

Yeah till he messed up the YOG and he said oh 308 million (or 368 million i can't remember) over budget is nothing.

[@Tera.byte1024]

Perfect example of: If you can’t beat them, join them

[@tehtuanan315]

greed!

[@vicpua]

Little did they know that 32 years later they share the same love for B&W property.

[@Omar-ti6tu]

And now they are neighbours at Rideout Rd

[@lookersTV1]

I was looking for this comment 😂😂

[@Bigjoe99]

I faced Vivian myself in those debating years. Look at him then and now, and its very telling what Singapore "big picture" problem is

[@aimanamenart]

Would love to hear more of an elaboration on your statement.

[@Bigjoe99]

@@aimanamenart He had a strong anti-establishment streak then, his speeches full of brilliance, sharp arguments. It now pales in comparison.

[@imycunt372]

@@Bigjoe99 he has been lured to the “white” side.😂

[@andrewsitu3472]

​@@imycunt372in short, he got turned.

[@frankmuller0.029]

Simply put, he’s crossed over…

[@Dan8254]

"To test a man's character, give him power." ....Abraham Lincoln..... "Then see if he is still championing the causes that he preached when he was no one." .....Dan.....

[@mrtienphysics666]

KZbin algorithm must have dug this out because of the Ridout Road bungalow issue

[@truelord]

In the end still join the same gang 😂

[@jayjay357]

And now both became neighbours at Ridout area.

[@geofferytanmingchun426]

This was Vivian before he slided to the dark side

[@S.E.essence]

Well he may hv been bought n no longer so provacative but honestly it would be better he join the govt n we still benefits from his intellect rather than be destroyed like jb jayaratnam.....so win win situations lah....

[@Soshiaircon91]

Or maybe his clearance level increase together with his paygrade granting him access to those "numbers" and "Data" he was looking for. Vivian from this video clearly have doubts as he seems like a guy who need to see solid evidence for this "magic formula for stability". Honestly a lot of hardworking low and mid income Singaporeans has zero access to those fancy data or neither have the skills to interpret it. Ministers that kept throwing number at people nowadays need to go down to the grassroots more often to reconnect with people with more easy to understand language, sad to see a lot of high paying Minister now that failed to deliver their "Data" in a more plain language to hardworking low wage Singaporean.

[@rgravi]

pun intended yes

[@SprinkleofWilly]

Now he become a part of the propaganda machine

[@bubq]

You die a hero or live long enough to become the villain

[@andrewlee1275]

Both should debate each other in their Bungalow in Ridout Road

[@fidelcatsro6948]

good idea🐱👍🏿

[@kunalandevakirubai8136]

He has changed since then. He is a proponent of the gov today for all the reasons best to him. He is articulate and stood grounds even to mighty CCP China in ONCLOS & with US too. However the adage goes if u can't fight - join them and he hd decided to join the gov. Has his joining added value to the gov indeed it has but had it added to the benefits of the society that is subjective and debatable and I see it he doesn't challenge the gov policy to better them but rather defend them as he sees fit. Cheers 🥂

[@thealphagamer5283]

My admiration for Singapore has increased every time i watch thier gentle polite but onto the target speeches and debates........ From an fellow Indian

[@beezlebub9]

You really have no idea.

[@drawinjackson6324]

Hiw could u? This is pure wayang. Unless u like wayang.

[@61.pranamyajoshi23]

​@@drawinjackson6324wdym by wayang? Is this all a drama, a play?

[@Chew81]

If you are not Singaporean don't bring your racist nationalist crap here. They are Singaporeans who happen to have Indian ancestry. That's all. And for your information, Indian, Dr Vivian has half Chinese ancestry.

[@NJ0711]

@@Chew81 How on earth have you managed to find fault with a comment that is PRAISING Singapore?

[@kampongboi18]

There's error in transliteration. He's not referring to Malaysians per se. The backstory was about Malays in SAF and how their higher birth rate than the Chinese was perceived to be a problem/concern by some.

[@vinodsiba4823]

its because of ur religion. when our neighbous are mainly muslim like you and you guys all radically believe its a eternal sin to kill another muslim because a book tells you its a sin and you guys believe it blindly, how can we trust if we say one day malaysia or indonesia decides to invade? will you defend your chinese and indian singaporean brothers beside you? or you will you help the invaders kill your brothers in arms because you religious book tells you its right to kill non-muslims or infidels as you guys call it? when you as muslims can answer this question on how we can trust you, that is when singapore will truly treat you as first class citizens just like it does chinese and indians.

[@BeOutstanding]

Yeah so Singapore invited many Chinese and Indian nationals to come.

[@byebyefiat]

which year was this?

[@kampongboi18]

​@@byebyefiatAssuming Vivian was below 35 here and Shanmugam was already MP..should be 88'-96'.Just my yaya agaration

[@emilyinnetherlands5295]

the description said 32 years ago, 29 year old vivian. could it mean 1991?

[@shashankrao23]

Clear thoughts and polite debate is a mark of a statesman

[@Fakeslimshady]

Is that why the PAP statesman here keeps avoiding the question

[@duncankowable]

A young anakin skywalker debating senator palpatine

[@thiaahmin7176]

The Dark Side of Government Machinery is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be Unnatural。

[@Fakeslimshady]

Now Darth Vader and Palpatine

[@kensaxophone]

Who knew they’d be Ridout neighbours

[@kaidollarsense]

And now they're neighbors!

[@yewjin6107]

They can continue arguing after they become neighbour. Wish them well and success.

[@Tommashelbyeee]

this face off was before Vivian joined PAP? if anybody dont know, vivian was questioning shanmugam about LKY saying indians should not have more than 1 baby in the 70/80s becuase LKY wanted chinese as the majority race. if you realise thats why many chinese from malayia and china easily got citizenship back then. the other one was LKY saying malays are not loyal. because of the neighbouring countries like malaysia and indonesia are all muslims and some seemed to take religon over patriotism. thats why malays isnt welcomed in the navy and air force. Army only take very very little malay just to show there is at least 1 malay and the majority of them are thrown in SPF and SCDF. Even when majority Singaporeans wanted Danabalan to be the next PM after LKY, LKY said Singaporeans not ready for a Indian PM and like how LHL said the same thing when majority Singaporeans wanted Tharman to be the next PM in this era. Because LKY wanted Singapore to be a chiense dominated country. That’s why Vivian asked those questions back then.

[@vtn08]

this comment should be pinned

[@scbchong6964]

re: ...LKY saying indians should not have more than 1 baby in the 70/80s... That is false narrative. The fact is working adult population then was uneducated, unproductive and wages very low. No birth control then would have meant no future for most singaporeans. Were your parents well-educated and high income earners? How old are you? re: ...LKY wanted Singapore to be a chiense dominated country... Every ethnic group is biased towards their own. Takes long time for younger generation to moderate. Even now, the Opposition politicians pander to ethnicity. Your parents could support or accept other races then? re: ...thats why many chinese from malayia and china easily got citizenship back then... Wrong. There are only 30,000+ citizen babies born every year, while 20,000+ old citizens die every year. Natural selection mean only 30% of each annual cohort grow up into excellent working adults. There are many mediocre citizens. The fact remains that singaporeans are the offspring of landless peasants, uneducated farmers and coolies.

[@Tommashelbyeee]

@@scbchong6964 the birth rate he did mentioned Indian shouldnt have more than 1 baby, so why u wrong? So uneducated Chinese can have many babies but uneducated Indian can’t have many baby? No wonder many Chinese lost their job to foreign Indians, these Chinese parents must be uneducated. The citizenship to Malaysian Chinese and China last time easy why u say wrong? Right also u say wrong. Because Your own kind will only support own, nothing new. Your kind already came Singapore to have a living yet want to dominate someone else’s country? Your kind should Go back China la, your kind all be 100% there.

[@xuanyidu3259]

thanks for the comment

[@scbchong6964]

Plse stop blaming PAP lah. You point finger at LKY but forgot citizens then were all uneducated and poor. So was the govt. Why should minorities get priority and privilege for good jobs if they are not qualified, not educated and unable? You forgot at that time, every ethnic group is selfish, self-centered and greedy for more. btw were you working yet in 70s/80s? Or you were still in school only and now repeating false narratives from Opposition politicians?

[@jlo7204]

What a class in language from these young ministers . No singlish on those times may be

[@edenassos]

He went to ACS. They don't do singlish in there.

[@share_accidental]

this happened in 1990 for those who are lazy to calculate.

[@scbchong6964]

The older GenX becoming bolder because PM LKY stepping down in 1992.

[@evolution8662]

Tks I was abt to ask......

[@stevesteve4700]

Great minds. Sharp arguments but no personal animosity whatsoever

[@aaaduccs6667]

I agreeee more debates need happen and to be like this right now, especially in this time when we all seem so seperated

[@satyam4125]

This video is gold !!!

[@donmichaelangelo]

Money buys precisely everything.

[@Kuodo79]

We lack this kind of debates now a days. Ones that are open, structural and educational instead of the bickering and accusations against opposing parties.

[@melvinch]

This chup-cheng neh is living proof that integrity has a price. 😆

[@freddiemercury2075]

Can tell from the way he speaks that's a very wise man there. He just need to remember Raffles Institution is not a lousy school.

[@ly8370]

And remember to give us the very long overdue explanation of YOG overbudgeting in 2010. 😂

[@user-dv4rh2my1x]

Shanmugan: walao I also young what. Still have so much hair

[@xtreame]

Now they are neighbours

[@oo-oe4km]

What happened to Vivian? Bring the old Vivian back! We need people like this so that we get answers. Oh well LMW is doing somewhat this as well

[@TheBf666]

Nonsense...LMW is nowhere at this level. He is not as sharp, eloquent and blurt out complete BS.

[@naturemeditation3751]

LMW is good to work in the prata shop down the road

[@byebyefiat]

please la, call a spade a spade… lmw is not quality material… even if his heart is in the right place.

[@lyhthegreat]

back when shammy had hair

[@steelheart8103]

They now live happily ever after at Ridout Road

[@poovaneswaransupramaniam19]

Amazing discourse by capable politicians

[@singaporefoodreview9591]

I have to agree. They are the next calibre / on the next level

[@andrewsitu3472]

What about Jamus? CSJ?

[@konchoktrinley5438]

Indeed…how sad a pure guy has turned otherwise after becoming a minister. From one of the best to the worst of the lot.

[@jessiejames7492]

he actually turned down the post a couple of times. his wife encouraged him to go ahead. she was pregnant with their 3drd child then..

[@ginho3848]

You see different things in different position.

[@jackjackyphantom8854]

@@ginho3848 Chinese will always dominate Singapore and Malay will always dominate Malaysia! 😌

[@Dan8254]

"to test a man's character, give him power" - Abraham Lincoln -

[@DevathasanAPNair]

Just playing to the Master's music. Yes Man

[@mr.g702]

Capital serves as a means to acquire influence over an individual's mindset, and a vulnerable character becomes susceptible to the power of value in shaping their perspective.😅

[@skanthaadsigns]

Admirable to watch these two debate...

[@horologyenthusiast8523]

What youguys dont know, both are now in Hydra and living literally next to each other 😂

[@dufreversi42]

I think if you ignore the forces that might be there and cannot be seen or you just plan according to what you can see and ignore those things that might be there then you might not have an edge over your competitors. I think this is what keeps Singapore going. Always far sighted, planning ahead. but what he pointed out is true, its hurtful to question one's loyalty in public that was what he seems to mentioned. Good EQ.

[@wan8655]

If you can’t beat them join them

[@guantisengkun4342]

It’s little events like this that made Singapore what it is today. A beautiful country. Let’s just admit it

[@Tommashelbyeee]

You mean beautiful things like racism?

[@guantisengkun4342]

@@Tommashelbyeee yeap and how ur mom got arrested by antivice at geylang lorong 16 long ago

[@Tommashelbyeee]

@@guantisengkun4342 Don’t tell me your mother’s geylang story la. Your dad also in jail right because he was the mama son for your mom.

[@imycunt372]

@@Tommashelbyeee beautiful as in facing up to reality and not pretentious that things (especially racial issues) doesn’t exist as shanmugam puts it.

[@Prometheus574]

@@imycunt372 Racism exist if we allow people like lecturer Tan Boon Lee, Beow Tan, Amy Cheong in Singapore.

[@mikey6538]

money changes how everyone thinks when they have it.

[@ian_ong]

Very good looking guy. Watched him debating since young

[@ericwong5891]

See how cocky he was and till day with no changes......continue to support him next GE2025...sure die!

[@shien1911]

FINALLY SOMEONE QUESTIONED HOW THEY ALWAYS PUT OUT THE NUMBERS

[@caver38]

Problem is as usual most politicians have never held down normal jobs , they lack a lot of knowledge and experiance

[@evolution8662]

Wow... Look at how young Vivian is......

[@hongkaiyuan]

What's the context of this video?

[@fairuzdin3012]

And now they are neighbours 😊

[@mindful47]

He became a good story teller now instead of a debater.

[@keytiax1128]

in the end also working for government not for the public???

[@volkscco]

wow Shanmugam with hair

[@zerocurry]

Little did they know they would one day become neighbours…

[@tanc.h8675]

Nevet under estimate what money and power can do . The world is litter with many examples of poeple and movemnts that started up with the most noble and altruistic intentions only to end up rotten to the core. Only time will reveal a person's true character.

[@takanna]

now the both of them renting ridout at market fair rates.😮😮😮

[@DonYang73]

Would be good to see the debate each other now, 2023.

[@yamingxie3451]

O,ageing,no one escapes from thy grip.......

[@oldlee2706]

Now he is just a part of them..

[@heifetz87]

Where are these archives found ? Want to see the full video

[@wongon1168]

No matter what, who ever talk bad about me I make sure to find the truth and sue them

[@madman9163m]

Look what greed of wealth can do to people. These two have fallen from grace.

[@sabrecruz6721]

The lean-back posture

[@speedkrr]

hahaha they r now good friend

[@heifetz87]

What are they talking about ? Can anyone provide context

[@scorpioreflections2669]

No wonder he is called "Vivian"😂😂😂

[@MHLFC07]

What happened to this promising young man..

[@smonyboy]

Million dollar salaries, that's what happened

[@NookTommy]

Illiterate 😂

[@muhamadirfaan3329]

32 years ago thats in 1990

[@acheeyk]

Loyalty foundation is trust...

[@orangaringorang9600]

Good looking guy to this day his face never change dow 🤩

[@aadilansari5997]

His face looks like Bollywood actir Devanand..

[@mitsurikanroji9548]

these 2 have bright future, from young can speak so eloquently

[@POVOwnmind-qy9zx]

Granted they are not perfect, at least they can make Singapore proud in the international stage.

[@poorpotato7623]

talk so much, now both are neighbours at ridout

[@eugenetan5405]

And now they're neighbours at Dempsey. Oh how far they've come!

[@sabilj2000]

From the discussion, it is obvious what they perceived is not backed up with any evidence. If they perceived so, so be it. We would be able to show our loyalty in difference ways.

[@billyseah1584]

Cannot change the past.

[@ongernie7216]

Money can change a character of a person.

[@NathanaelTan]

Y'all getting this in your recommended after the Ridout thingy?

[@horologyenthusiast8523]

Hail Hydra!

[@windydragon6522]

Is this to prepare us to accept him as our next DPM?

[@7om6un40]

These 2 people are actually very capable and worthy to be PM. Its at Singapore lost, due to race issue, they are unable to become PM.

[@mamamememoo]

It is our loss that we can’t have Tharman for PM. I’m not so sure about Shanmugam. Vivien in this video, yes. Now. Not sure.

[@jefflim7020]

@@mamamememoo There are many capable individuals too like Pritam Singh!

[@adal5159]

I want Tharman and not Vivian nor Shanmugan. Dun understand why it HAS to be Chinese as PM. Even old Chinese folks I spoke are generally supportive of Tharman.

[@jefflim7020]

@@adal5159 From what I know many old Chinese can't accept non Chinese pm. If only they will hold a PM vote...

[@TheBf666]

@@jefflim7020 Pritam is useless and has integrity issues.

[@heidi-hu1tv]

Poor guys are clueless that it`s Chinese priviledge. Since they were able to see through it, they have been co-opted into the establishment and now the narrative no longer needs to be further discussed.

[@comments7335]

Now good neighbors at Ridout. Corruption harmony.

[@irisho2744]

Both so young and handsome looking

[@tspirate]

Now the debate is on them being neighbours ! 😅

[@_Urahara_Kisuke_]

Impressed by their discourse and mental/verbal composure. Whichever "side" they are from, we need more men like them to step up for the wake of Singapore's future.

[@kaiyin3842]

Everyone was a young rude arrogant teenager once, even Vivian 😆

[@darkdrift0r124]

Your profile picture is a teenager.

[@smchung4977]

Wow. He said "playing with numbers ". Interesting...

[@hipposamadesu]

Good to be young, still got hair 😂😂😂

[@gzSING]

I opine that he joined with the hopes and passion for change within the party, but over time, the majority in the party and its incumbent environment shaped him and overcame his own identity, passion and values. He has now become synonymous with the endemic problems with the party. Social science tells us that peer pressure and your prevailing environment will shape you (in this case, the PAP party).

[@meiyaazumi]

What show is this. Where can I watch

[@Gamebred-Nightmare]

VB sold out.

[@中華傲訣]

Indians have always have the gift of the gab. That is why most of the foreign minister are of Indian ethnic group.

[@chewchim]

See their tongues.

[@Someone-ti8pi]

@@chewchim ?

[@vinodsiba4823]

@@chewchim yeah they got long tongue and locng cock bro, chinese on the other hand both also short no wonder the wife always do funny thing lmao

[@DevathasanAPNair]

Just a way to put a blame on a small group😮

[@macjastic]

I bet everyone noticed this one. Keep an eye on him.

[@perpetualquotes]

High profile high command

[@joekerr2879]

“I have said openly that if we were 100 per cent Chinese, we would do better. But we are not and never will be, so we live with what we have.” - Lee Kuan Yew page 351 of "The Man And His Ideas", Han Fook Kwang , Warren Fernandez, Sumiko Tan, Marshall Cavendish International (Asia) (August 7, 2015)

[@endor8witch]

it's sad to know this

[@kaiyin3842]

Vivian Balakrishnan has come a long way, he has matured a lot!

[@AntiReligionistz]

Handsome right see liao wet wet right

[@darkdrift0r124]

You got daddy issues. He called leong mun wai illiterate. Mature?

[@boogie4943]

Or has a sold out a lot?

[@wks2291]

vivian looked like he was about to cry at one point