YOUR ENGINE IS LOCKED BEHIND A PAYWALL? | KTM DEMO MODE

[@WhatTimeIsIt369]

Every single person that buys any products with micro purchases supports the practice and will enable it to be on everything in the future. If everyone just said NO and went to a product that doesn't have this practice then they would quit doing it. KTM lost me as a customer with all the failures in quality. If you pay a premium price for a bike then you shouldn't have a laundry list of problems that you have to deal with. This further cements my decision to not support that company. I know many KTM adventure bike owners. I am always shocked at all the problems they have had. If you have money to burn on repairs and running back and forth to the dealer for warranty repairs then sure....fun bikes. A vstrom 650 for example is far less money and is one of the most reliable bikes out there. No it isn't as capable or fun or as high in social status but most and I mean MOST people can't even ride the vstrom 650 to it's limits. MOST people riding high powered adventure bikes are posers to say the least. Pretending to be Chris Birch doesn't make them Chris Birch. But then again our society is all about how you LOOK rather than what you actually are. Hardly Abelson culture wouldn't exist without that concept. If it were only the "bad boys" riding them then group would be pretty small. Pretending to be bad and trying to look bad is enough to garner the desired results from an ignorant society. Posers.

[@BornAGoon]

These are great points I feel they should just make this stuff standard

[@robvanduren761]

I agree 100%. I brought a new Kawasaki as i didnt trust KTM quality or dealers. I see Kawasaki as the only brand that is improving and evolving.

[@appymarley]

@@robvanduren761 Kawasaki along with Suzuki lost the will to make interesting bikes a long time ago probably why people buy exciting bikes like ktms

[@PaydayGabeBCNV]

You NAILED IT 💯 Mr. Nine 💯👍. Posers exactly. I'll take the Vstrom and pocket the Benjamin's any day of the year. 🖖

[@sanjosejeff]

A Russian diesel tractor is more reliable than a Ferrari I’m sure. I’m not a poser dude. Been riding dirt bikes prolly before you were born. My buddy paid extra to unlock software on his 790 before demo modes were offered. Until someone offers a bike as dirt capable as the 890 r, I’m willing to do the maintenance needed to ride something no one comes close to in the single track enviroment. I paid 15 k to simply unlock self driving on my Tesla.

[@kcconnor2636]

The problem I have with it, is the baked-in costs. Software doesn't run without hardware. If you don't want the software feature, then the hardware that makes the software work is extraneous to your particular bike. If you don't want lean angle sensitive ABS, then having an IMU on the bike is a wasted expense. And KTM baked the cost of the dormant IMU into the BASE price of the bike. Quickshifter? Same thing. The hardware is on the bike. The EXPENSE of the hardware is on the BASE price. KTM will MOST CERTAINLY NOT sell an 890 with all the bells and whistles, but software-deactivated to a base model, at a loss. The cost of the computers, sensors, shift linkages and everything else to enable Quickshifter or Cruise Control or whatever, is baked into the base build.

[@BornAGoon]

good points should just make it premium

[@burgundypoint]

Yes. Finally someone who get it

[@BikerGirlTraveler]

Well, they get away with as much as people allow them to get away with. I like what Ann Lappe once said: "Every time you spend money, you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want." It's up to you if you want to buy their bikes and support their nickle qnd diming

[@BornAGoon]

Your words are true

[@petebusch9069]

Maximizing profits, making shareholders happy, complete disconnect with customer base, these are the times were living in.

[@BornAGoon]

Yea they should have just bumped the price and made it standard

[@rondobrondo]

@@BornAGoon NO THEY SHOULDNT, WTF are you talking about? You Want EVERYONE to pay more on a bike so that everyone is FORCED to pay the same amount, even if its higher than you wanted to pay for tech that you dont want? Wtf are you talking about? Bro people who dont want certain features shouldnt be forced to share the extra cost baked into the bike they want when they DONT WANT those features. Jesus christ

[@rondobrondo]

You aint saying shit man, you are just throwing out buzzwords to seem like you know about ~bUsiNEsSs~ and that you are vaguely anti corporate greed. Use your fking brain and rationality to see that being able to customize your price point to WHAT YOU WANT and not what the company wants to even out their spending and the money that they make back on each INDIVIDUAL UNIT is actually GOOD FOR CONSUMERS because they dont have to share in costs they dont want to.

[@rondobrondo]

oh btw, I"m not a KTM fanboy ,because I just bought an MT09SP so dont call me biased, loser

[@212driller]

Same goes for the companies people work for.

[@TomsTinkeringandAdventures]

When I heard subscription, I thought it was a terrible idea. Now that it's more clear that it's just a purchase thing I still think it's not a good idea. I guess we will see if it becomes a sticking point for people buying these bikes new. And what if I pick up a second hand KTM that someone cheaped out on....can I add it later? Or what if the ECU fails and you need another one? Lots of questions for years down the road I suppose.

[@BornAGoon]

Yea I forgot to add that If someone else bought it Its yours on a used bike

[@TomsTinkeringandAdventures]

@@BornAGoon good info to know.

[@rondobrondo]

Yes you can add it on later if you feel like. THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF THE SYSTEM If the technology on the bike fails, then you just have a normal motorcycle. If your ECU fails, then you probably completely destroyed your bike and it's unridable anyway. It's extremely extremely rare for the fuel injection on ANY motorcycle to fail suddenly

[@TomsTinkeringandAdventures]

@@rondobrondo The more complex a system is, the more points of failure exist. I know modern bikes are reliable, but the potential for failure is something to keep in the back of your mind. That being said, there is no way I'm going back to points ignition, carburetors, four inches of suspension travel, kick start only, etc.

[@kenhetherington756]

It IS a TERRIBLE Idea!!!!

[@markchalloner5883]

I'm glad I got my T7 when I did. 10k OTD! No un-necessary tech, and now a 300 mile range with the Acerbis tank. I do wish it had cruise control though. I always thought that C.C. was dumb until I got it on my other bikes.

[@kevinkillsit]

Wow. I didn't know about this BS. I have 2 KTMs at present. The 1290SDR and 500excf. Was hoping to get an 890 one day, but this is really lame. It's ok, I wanted the Tenere anyway. This just made it easier.

[@BornAGoon]

Its kinda wierd isnt it

[@scardaoni1]

Thank you Yamaha for listening building the T7 Simple simple🙏 Most motorcycle manufacturers way too much electronic mambo Jumbo🤢 We don't need Moto GP technology on an adventure bike🇨🇦

[@istra70]

No one will ever beat the reliability of Yamaha.

[@aknarrowbackh8sumr49]

This is why I bought a DR650. Anything I don't have 100% control over I don't "own", I'm paying an over blown rental fee while someone else can shut things down.

[@ripmax333]

So the Hardware is already installed on the motorcycle and Us as Customers already payed for it, then they want Us to pay extra money for just re-installing the software back in? or the exact world is not re-install but re-activate, because what I imagine is a technician scrolling trough a Menu a just clicks the on the On button again.

[@burgundypoint]

What dumb consumers don't get is that you already paid for all the HARDWARE that enables the "extra" functionality, it's not just software. Do you really think it's just software that enables quickshifting for example, no mechanical linkage inside???That hardware is already installed, and you most certainly were charged for it. Now you can't get to take advantage of that hardware until you pay an extra fee. Opt out of the extras and you have literal dead weight you paid for.

[@BornAGoon]

I dont know why they dont leave it on and charge the upgrade It creates confusion

[@RavenSL65]

Something you didn't touch on in your video is "could" this be KTM testing the waters for a future subscription type service? Maybe they will let people stew on this for a year or two and then if it does not affect sales to much maybe then they introduce a subscription service that will be an extra $50 bucks every time you get your bike serviced also meaning you will have to go to KTM for every service or lose the electronic extras???

[@BornAGoon]

I would think that is possible

[@fallenshallrise]

Next will be engine tune - full power only available for an extra monthly charge.

[@chrismorin4109]

Is it a middle weight or a cheater middle weight or under sized big bike where the numbers and prices actually match closer to ? I think it's it's actually closer in comparison to the Africa twin. But KTM wants to put their fingers on the scale and classify it with bikes it can outperform rather than compete equally.

[@BornAGoon]

good points

[@MolltoMotto]

Don't let them confuse you by diverting the focus from what should get your attention. The hardware for all these functions is there on the bike you buy, you already paid for all those components that oh surprise! are useless ballast if you don't pay another truckload of money so that ktm deigns to release the software for which you also paid (because the insane price of that brand is absurd). This is a SCAM, a hijacking of hardware, a well made-up extortion. If you want to sell all that on the side, then make models available without all that useless hardware at the right price. But even better, since we can't tell KTM or any other brand what to do with their company, let's do what we can and DO NOT BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.

[@BornAGoon]

Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment

[@WhatTimeIsIt369]

Fortnine did a metallurgy video on the different bike brands and that was very enlightening. I love the Aprillia Toureg design and think it is possible one of the best designs every made. However their quality is in question for sure. That is enough for me to not buy it. I think that would be the general consensus.

[@BornAGoon]

Thats what I thought Most people cant bring themselves to roll the dice on an Aprilia If I was in the market for an ADV I would buy the Tuareg

[@travishimself1973]

The software is one thing. But having a physical quickshifter installed that gets disabled just doesn't sit well with me. The customer had to pay for that upfront!

[@BornAGoon]

Thanks for watching and commenting I appreciate it

[@grigorirasputin996]

I think it's bullshit and people should refuse to purchase these products. Unfortunately i don't think most people are patient enough to boycott these practices. I'm looking forward to the cheater jailbreak solutions people will come up with.

[@BornAGoon]

You are right about people not being patient enough

[@jaixc]

More than likely that is what will happen. The minute they offer it as a demo at a cheaper price, It'll be some people collectively write a jailbreak to unlock those features all of the time, and literally bypass everything KTM is trying to gouge out of their customers. But once KTM catches wind of this, they'll most likely re-adjust the prices and unlock any bike that was purchased before the adjustment, at least thats what a smart company would do with their customers to maintain loyalty use of their brand. But who knows, KTM could be just as petty as a Karen, and force charge for "the upgrade", even if you've drove only 500 miles. And at that point, a lot of people will be returning the bikes, or selling them, and they loose more brand loyal customers.

[@grigorirasputin996]

@@jaixc well said.

[@ericcournoyer1595]

This software upgrade for money scheme is just the 1st step of a new paradigm they want to take us in. This will apply to maintenance warranty etc sooner than we think if we let that slide. How ? Dont know but I am sure there are plans for it already in the HQ of these companies.

[@BornAGoon]

Lets hope that never happens

[@petebusch9069]

I know nothing about writing software but think were at the point were it has become so simple that there isn't much money in it anymore making them come up with ways to keep charging you. I hate it and hope someday we can get past this nonsense.

[@rondobrondo]

Bro multiple companies already have software for money on their bikes wtf. Are you just barely getting into motorcycles? Or are you too poor to afford the motorcycles that already do this and so you have never considered looking at those bikes?

[@ericcournoyer1595]

@@jonlough3074 Sounds about right

[@bradleybaker8894]

@@petebusch9069 You said you don't know anything about writing software. Most people don't. There might be more to it than you imagine. When you take your car to the dealership for service, they generally update the software that runs your car or truck. Bottom line up front, there is a lot of money wrapped up in this software animal. I have the advantage of experience with it and can share some insight. I have spent a career as a Project Manager, Program Manager, and Product Manager at senior levels for technology companies in the defense sector. I have planned and managed technical product lines during the initial product development and fielding and across the product and service lifecycle. The products I managed are more complex than motorcycles and after the initial development and fielding they require new capabilities to be added and frequent updates to existing capabilities. That always includes software updates. The development of technology capabilities is not simple and not cheap. Software is a part of that. The ongoing updates are also not simple, easy or cheap. This requires planning and resources to address hardware and software updates, bug fixes and something we refer to as "technical debt" and a team to test and approve the update and configuration management to build the software update for each model of bike that gets it and send it to the dealers and a technician installing the updates. The ongoing updates are part of a multi-year product roadmap and cost forecast which informes the total cost to and maintain the product in the field and keep it usable and relevant. This does relate motorcycles. As an example, my 2022 Triumph Rocket 3 has had four software updates installed by the dealer since I purchased it 15 months ago. I did not pay for those software updates but Triumph covers the cost somewhere. I had a professional front row seat to a similar three ring circus for many years. I'll spare you my thoughts on that or what and how KTM might be doing to manage the initial development cost (fairly straight forward) and ongoing software costs (not so straight forward) and the impact to the purchase price and across time after the sale.

[@Oldrush]

🤣LOL, no thanks. Can't get myself to buy a KTM as it is due to reliability issues. They use customers for their R&D which they sell as cutting edge and people eat it up.

[@robertrscott]

LOL!!!

[@orlandoberry4031]

It’s now possible if you purchased a second hand bike (2023 and on) without the tech package, to upgrade to the tech package at a much lower cost than the pre 2023 mdl.

[@BornAGoon]

I know you can add it but its probably the same price

[@gmanintokyo]

Working in the software industry, this is standard practice so no complaints at all. Using demo mode for a week, I’ve already decided for my 890 Adventure R I don’t want MSR, Cruise Control, and perhaps the quick shifter - still playing with that. Maybe on road oriented bikes, like the Super Dukes, these make sense, but not on an off road bike. I do want the Rally mode to have slip control and stop ripping trails to shreds.

[@Wuestenkarsten]

Get me an old TT 600 from 1986 to 1993, one Garmin GPS and that´s it!! No more Electronic Shit needed! To the Hell, why is everyone now with this Electronic Rubbish? How could we survive the Sahara Desert in the 80/90ties without Electronic a Millenial will ask??? Today´s Generation needs even a fucking Phone App to breath in and out, and if you take their Mobile Phone away the will suffocate.....I work as well in the Software Industry, and don´t need that Shit in my free Desert Time....Never ever trust a Programmer with your Life!!!(See Tesla´s Shit with Trucks/Bikes Issues which is Murder in my Eyes but called technological Progress if you are a big Brand Industry!!

[@donaldgrant9067]

I stopped at 4:49. I no longer trust a word you say. If you buy a bike the software should be already on it, permanently! To come back later and hold it for ransom is just highway robbery. Sell the bike for 900 dollars more and cut the crap.

[@JustinBurdick-b7h]

Loooooove your content doug, just found your channel, used to watch yammi noob but he always annoyed the crap outa me in sure many others but he was the only one that done all those vids, now we find your channel!

[@41663]

Its been 45 years give or take years since Ive raced bikes. I rode after that cause I loved to ride. I just cant believe theyre putting software and that sort of stuff into bikes now. With all this inhancement theyre replacing skill and feel with Ai to help you ride or win a race. So it comes down to whoever has the bucks has the best chance of winning not by skill but technology. Maybe a road bike why not but off road and competition no thanks.

[@BornAGoon]

Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment

[@gee4zfpv]

Im waiting for a T7 that I put a deposit on and it will arrive... ??? BUT there is a KTM890R at a local dealer- this video gives me pause for thought- and yes I have already sat on the Adventure 890... 🤪

[@BornAGoon]

I would still go with the KTM as the saying goes - Don't let the bike you want stop you from buying the bike you can have"

[@gee4zfpv]

@@BornAGoon yeah 😂🤣 but I already have a Triumph T120Black and an MV Agusta Brutale800RR SCS… waiting on the T7 gives me the time to sell one of these before it arrives 😢😢😢 so hard to let go of one of these because I love’m both!!

[@halfcabnut321]

@@gee4zfpv i have a 21 890 R 10,000 problem free miles. I can tell ya its an absolute Blast ! By far the most fun I've had on an adventure bike.

[@gabrielkopp2036]

So are they going to do the same thing with the norden 901???

[@BornAGoon]

Good question I dont know

[@justsomedude445]

YUP !! already did but the "Explorer" mode costs a wopping $179 USD 1 time so .......

[@verbalwidget0919]

No issues with my Vstrom, DR650 or XR650L

[@BornAGoon]

There are never issues with Suzuki

[@R12gsa09]

Exactly! I can’t sit here and watch all those KZbinrs crying for “free lunch”! Like you said, when I bought my 2019 ktm790advr, I had to buy extra the rally pack and the cruise control. In fact out of pocket you expense! No finance allowed on those extras.

[@BornAGoon]

Exactly!! I was wondering what all the fuss was about Its still a great deal for a bike and you cant beat the performance

[@rondobrondo]

Stupid entitled americans who would rather have everyone pay more for features they might not want instead only just charging a premium to people who REALLY want specific tech upgrades. It would be like saying, "there should be no base model honda civic, everyone needs to pay for the special edition with upgraded speakers, heated seats, power seats, etc"

[@halfcabnut321]

@@BornAGoon 100% agree .

[@bradleybaker8894]

I have not owned a KTM. Reliability and service issues have previously turned me away from buying one. I am still leery about it. If there is one thing I hate it is my bike letting me down on the ride and even worse is the bike sitting in the shop for a season waiting on parts or whatever. I have been on several KTMs and liked all of them. I rode a 2022 890 R and loved it. I can see myself owning an 890 R at some point. The fact is I spend far more time and miles on the road and my next bike might be the KTM 1290 Super Adventure (non-R version). I want the 890 R more but will probably buy a 1290 SAS first and see how it goes. I would buy both bikes loaded and factor the additional cost of the tech into the price of the bikes. I understand the tech on both bikes, which have different purposes. I would use the tech, so it is worth the price. I am not guessing on that. I am an old school rider but have a tech enabled bike and use it. That is not true for everyone. Be realistic about yourself on that point. If you don't want or need the tech, don't get it. Or, buy something else. There is not one right answer that fits everyone. That said, I am not against what KTM is doing with the trial period for the tech. I like the idea of trying all the tech enabled capabilities before paying for them. It is my opinion that KTM has ham fisted their marketing and message to potential buyers with the trial period and sequencing the cost of the technology capabilities for the 2023 890 R. Many of us could tell that story in a way that is acceptable to more potential buyers than what KTMs marketing is doing now. I assume the dealerships will figure this out and salespeople can manage it with buyers. I look at what I get for my money. That is the bottom line. KTM has compelling bikes to consider and we all know there are many available contenders out there. Reliability and service is a larger concern for me than how KTM has mishandled the tech trial period and how they charge for it. That's where I sit on this issue. Opinions vary. I am not looking for agreement. Other opinions are valid.

[@BornAGoon]

I wouldnt let that hold you back I think the KTM is very reliable where they suffer sometimes is durability. Things falling of, shock blow etc. Its mostly irritating stuff but the bikes always start and move forward

[@bradleybaker8894]

@@BornAGoon Good to know.

[@41663]

Dam you are a man who knows what hes talking about. Obviosly intelligent and informed on these tech bikes. I have a different view now on this subject. Thank you

[@BudFox559]

This is what stopped me from buying a KTM

[@BornAGoon]

and it stops a lot of others too

[@robertrscott]

You'll be happy with the Tuareg...trust me! Also I agree the 890 is the top dog, but only if you wanna ride an Adventure bike like its a hard enduro bike. As for the all purpose best ADV bike I don't think its the 890. Also, great video.

[@andyyougoonie]

Wouldn't be a Goon vid without a Goonie comment. SMORTINDUSTRIES in the house!

[@cyberbillp]

Furious is an understatement. The Consumer Protection Agency should step in and bar these from sale in the US. Zero is doing shit like this too. It's criminal.

[@markjacobs3956]

Reason number 101 to not own a KTM.

[@robvanduren761]

Reason number 1001 lol

[@rayhassen2081]

sounds like it just a software programme that should be easy enough to alter by the right comp tech?

[@brodi5367]

Honestly, the Japanese brands not making enough road bikes has been frustrating for a few years now. Like you said, just make some more lol. As for the demo tech package, I won't be buying it. I have seen far too many markets adopt this practice that I just want to buy something and use it. It's too bad too, because the upcoming 890 SMT was looking like a decent buy. That said, the ducati desert X was the best motorcycle I have ever ridden. People can argue the capability of it vs the ktm all they want, but I'm not doing anything extreme on either bike. If it is a gnarly single track, I'm taking my purpose built off road bike. Not my 16k+ pavement princess.

[@istra70]

Best to stay away from KTM. Reliability issues and all the rest - it's not worthy....

[@istra70]

Exactly. Just want to leave the same comment. Not really difficult to win Dakar rally - with 10 truck loads of spare parts , and 30 technicians and engineers .....changing the whole engine after every stage. There are some horror stories about reliability of KTM , and as parts and even the whole bikes are getting produced in Asia, the quality can only worsen. They don't work for you ..... - they work for profit.

[@SirGolfalot-]

Behind a paywall? In the computer industry, we call that utility-based pricing. Except we allow the customer to turn on the extra power or features when needed and off when not required. The customer only pays the bump in pricing when they turn on the additional features or extra power and only for the time it's on. The price increase stops when they turn the power or features back to the level they've contracted and normally use. The bike would have to store its usage status/features and communicate it back to the OEM for billing purposes. Like a cell phone that has restricted data usage if you go over, you are charged extra. Hey it can work. Subscription-based Motorcycle riding.

[@Wuestenkarsten]

Get me an old TT 600 from 1986 to 1993, one Garmin GPS and that´s it!! No more Electronic Shit needed! To the Hell, why is everyone now with this Electronic Rubbish? How could we survive the Sahara Desert in the 80/90ties without Electronic a Millenial will ask??? Today´s Generation needs even a fucking Phone App to breath in and out, and if you take their Mobile Phone away the will suffocate.....I work as well in the Software Industry, and don´t need that Shit in my free Desert Time....Never ever trust a Programmer with your Life!!!(See Tesla´s Shit with Trucks/Bikes Issues which is Murder in my Eyes but called technological Progress if you are a big Brand Industry!!

[@algonzalez7192]

I must be old fusion and only ride my bike to my abilities. Never driven a bike with all those electronics and Never had any issues driving it without. Just drive to your capability and enjoy the freedom of a bike.

[@clarkpiper5669]

The way that they're doing this does seem a little confusing, perhaps even a little underhanded but not sure it's all that big of a deal. From what I understand it's a onetime charge, just factor that in when you're negotiating the price, end of story.

[@BornAGoon]

It seems dumb

[@2ride_along]

I found interesting how media twist and turn everything…Saying KTM dividing opinions. No they are not dividing opinions, just because 100% think those are bad attitudes from KTM and other companies.

[@johnclowes3502]

Great stuff goon man... give me more please sir....

[@dg1019]

Nothing has changed from the previous version other than you get to test out the optional tech addon's that were always available. Your engine is not locked behind a paywall. All ECU's on all EFI KTM's are locked in transport mode. One the bike is registered the dealer permanently unlocks the ECU. The dealer may also temporarily unlock the ECU to do a PDI and make sure the bike runs before the customer picks it up but once the bike is registered its permanently unlocked. The optional tech packages were always available to purchase but had to be installed by the dealer either at the time of purchase or later. Its is a one time deal. Once the package is purchased its also permanently unlocked.

[@BornAGoon]

I know but so many others touted that way Its the same as it ever was Bunch of hoopla for nothing

[@metalsadman]

they shouldn't have loaded it in the bike in the first place for peeps that don't want the bells and whistles, and just release a separate package with all that on, rather than load it locked that adds weight and might cause problems down the road. it's really nit the way to go, motorcycle has survived being simple for so many years. we have too many subscription based business model out there i don't think we need one for motorcycling.

[@dg1019]

@@metalsadman Nothing is subscription based. You pay once if you want the added tech features. If you don't want them don't pay. Its pretty simple.

[@dg1019]

@@jakeviolet2195 Then just buy another bike that does not come with anything.

[@dg1019]

@@jakeviolet2195 They are selling every one they make. Try to find a 22 anywhere.

[@bondibeast]

i don't buy ktm anyway , i just hope it gets boycotted. micro transactions add upo to to big bucks. ktm are not doing this so they can make less money. they are not doing this to sell more bikes either. They just want to extract more cash out of every owner and second hamd owners as well. its just a cash grab.and if they succceed more brands will do it.

[@BornAGoon]

yea its a bummer

[@bondibeast]

@@BornAGoon Also while the price of the features now may seem small, i have little doubt ktm owners will not be consultedwhen they decide to jack up the prices and any random point in the future

[@ThinkBeforeYouSheep]

Who wants to drop 15k on a dual sport, I'd be terrified I'm going to scratch it or hurt it off road, if anyone want to truly have fun with less stress get a dual sport under 9k, there's no sense in dropping huge amounts on a bike you'll be scared to get dirty, I've had a klr650 that I absolutely enjoyed, I now have a crf300l which I love, after some fairly cheap suspension mods and a 14L gas tank it is pretty capable off road and I feel confident soloing this bike because it's not heavy to lift.

[@BornAGoon]

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts

[@Mohanuser29]

I think the problem is within the managers of ktm and how they think about their customers. KTM is a big brand that dominate the off-road section. And it have a huge base of lovers, those people would never hesitate a moment, if KTM ask them to pay even a subscription of $800 per year, just because when they sit on their motorcycles, they put their asses on top of a famous brand called KTM. On the other side, there is the other " look a like" customers, who want to try the Ktm product for a while, or just for bragging . For this category of buyers, KTM could provide them another version of motorcycles with no electronics. Because, most of them are running to grab their first brand new T700, to the point that warhorse , never reach the western cost of the US.

[@Wuestenkarsten]

Get me an old TT 600 from 1986 to 1993, one Garmin GPS and that´s it!! No more Electronic Shit needed! To the Hell, why is everyone now with this Electronic Rubbish? How could we survive the Sahara Desert in the 80/90ties without Electronic a Millenial will ask??? Today´s Generation needs even a fucking Phone App to breath in and out, and if you take their Mobile Phone away the will suffocate.....I work as well in the Software Industry, and don´t need that Shit in my free Desert Time....Never ever trust a Programmer with your Life!!!(See Tesla´s Shit with Trucks/Bikes Issues which is Murder in my Eyes but called technological Progress if you are a big Brand Industry!!

[@durtyred86]

When it comes to business, wallets always speak louder than words, lol..

[@BornAGoon]

yes they do

[@212driller]

It's the same thing the car companies are trying but people don't want it so it's not working so well lol.

[@BornAGoon]

yep microing us to death

[@robertchester1596]

I don't get it. People are winging about paying for all gimicks. It's simple, don't bye them. You've got to work out what you want the bike for. Do you want to race it or just go riding down the back roads to see things. There's a lot of bikes out there that are simple without all the gimmicks, eexample T7, APJ, SWM

[@BornAGoon]

exactly

[@bradleybaker8894]

Would I take a big adventure bike on the single track shown 18 minutes into the video? Me? No! I have plenty of off road experience and could probably manage it but I would not enjoy the ride. Also, if it turns out to be too much for me and that bike too big for the trail... bad things can happen. So, what's the point of doing that, even if you could (or think you could)?

[@BornAGoon]

Yea the problem is you have to pick it up

[@bradleybaker8894]

@@BornAGoon I've been down that road, so to speak. Most of my off road experience has been on much smaller and not street legal bikes. Too big a bike on anything remotely technical is a bad risk for most riders. Many years ago I came off a Yamaha 250 on a very steep and rough uphill. I ended up under my bike which was uphill and partially on me. I was trapped there and the bike was shifting around and leaking gas on me. I was not riding alone and others quickly got to me, partially raised the bike where I was and pulled me away from it. Bike and I were scuffed up but not seriously damaged. Scared the heck out of me. Imagine that on a GS 1250?

[@BillyBob-uc9zp]

YOU GOT THE WONGA? Behind the pay wall, Is where it belongs, Cough up the wedge, Then it sings it's songs. What are you thinking?, You gone propa mental?, Think it over KTM, We're not sentimental!. Not likely there fella, You need get a grip, Withholding it's horses, On some power trip. On just that principle, Your gunna lose out, Think your our saviour, And there goes your clout 😪

[@alanjones8810]

I have a KTM 1290superduk Gt, I purchased it new, before that I had a 1190 Adventure s, I purchased that new, I WILL NEVER PURCHASE ANOTHER KTM FOR THE THAT REASON, HILL HOLD IS A SAFETY FEATURE, NEVER NEVER AGAIN.

[@kenhetherington756]

GM used to charge $100 to "upgrade" your radio to stereo. -- They held down 2 buttons for 10 seconds to do this "upgrade".--- Just another chickenshit way to take a little more money from you. ------I have bought nothing but KTMS for the last 20 years. I DESPISE the fact that they are doing this.

[@BornAGoon]

My GM was like that and Onstar My car is 15 years old now and if I push the Onstar button someone answers

[@georgemartin7717]

Sounds SIMILAR to the junk that Tesla is putting out. I don't think any manufacturer should have remote control influence over anything that moves that YOU BOUGHT. If you want it on your car, motorcycle, tractor, combine,etc. Then have it dealer/manufacturer installed. It's a good, unnecessary opportunity for Software code to potentially corrupt NECESSARY Software code you need. PLUS, if you don't play by the manufacturers rules, they can shut you down at will. Just my thoughts about this practice/issue.

[@MagicAyrtonforever]

I was just starting to get curious about a KTM but as that very kind of thing is killing my business I certainly won’t be buying one

[@hennies9509]

You want something to fail add software that you can mess with. I wonder how many 2nd hand bikes of this model will still be reliable in 10 years?

[@JustinBurdick-b7h]

Point. Proved once again ' only buy a big 4 bike! U neeeeeever go wrong buying Kawasaki Suzuki Honda or Yamaha! They outsell eeeeeeeveryone for a reason, however atleast ktm isnt affiliated with harley, can you imagine that catastrophe

[@schwartzenheimer1]

Absolutely will NEVER consider buying a KTM. Screw them...

[@littlefishy6316]

I was interested in a Zero electric motorcycle but refuse to buy a motorcycle from a brand that has micro purchases

[@johnclowes3502]

I rida SWM RS500. Rally kitted and goes shit out off shovel . Full spec up and still under the cost of a KTM.

[@gabrielkopp2036]

I got my tenere for 12,100 out the door..I paid 10,299 plus normal fees and tax/title

[@BornAGoon]

My jealousy is high lol Good work

[@gabrielkopp2036]

@@BornAGoon I had a chance to get a norden 901 but went with the tenere instead and used the 5k us I saved to invest in upgrading my tenere and good riding gear and do not regret my decision.. I prefer simple.. when the rider is the ride modes make you a better rider

[@1CTDualSport]

Buy the Aprilia 660 Tuareg. Game changer bike, with no BS like this.

[@johnprested2468]

its a business at the end of the day ,i bet the same people complaining about this have spent a fortune on the latest i phone , you had to pay for the quick shifter rally mode and cruise control, its not a subscription

[@BornAGoon]

That is true complaining about demo mode with a 2k smart phone in their pocket

[@streddaz]

It’s an option, no different to any bolt on option, but in this case that you get to try before you buy. KTM are clever, as this way, you get to see what the electronic options are like so may miss them when they are gone. If they only gave you the option when you purchase it, you don’t know any better, so may decide not to purchase it. The dealer throwing in this electronic option is no different to throwing in a factory crash bar or bash plate. Just because it’s not a tangible item, doesn’t mean it’s not worth anything.

[@tenbear5]

Clever? You’re a fool for buying into it.

[@streddaz]

@@tenbear5 why? It’s an option. They could have just as easily just not added it to the bike in the first place and you would have to pay to for it without having tried it just like any other optional accessory.

[@tenbear5]

@@streddaz well, if you agree with crippleware and subscription based ownership that’s your choice.

[@streddaz]

@@tenbear5 it’s not a subscription. You just pay for the upgrade once like any other option, it’s just a software option that’s all. It would be different if it was.

[@tenbear5]

@@streddaz It’s heading that way. BMW are doing it too. Remember: you will own nothing & be happy. If you want to buy into that, fine.

[@appymarley]

Don't see the problem with this if you don't want it don't pay..every manufacturer is trying to take money off you somewhere...buy a new car and you pay for all sorts of extras if you want them it's nothing new

[@welditmick]

Oh the joys of 'tech' You never had any of this with a carb and set of points - Because they couldn't.

[@BornAGoon]

Thanks for watching and commenting I appreciate it

[@jounipohjolainen2687]

Not good business practice (might be even illegal in some countries, but I am sure one of KTM's thousand lawyers has looked into it) KTM changed about 10 years ago ran by motorcycle enthuastics to a company ran by beencounters. Lots of Chinese and Indian components in these bikes.

[@BornAGoon]

Yea it should be straight forward Put it on the bike or not and charge accordingly

[@rondobrondo]

@@BornAGoon NO THEY SHOULDNT, WTF are you talking about? You Want EVERYONE to pay more on a bike so that everyone is FORCED to pay the same amount, even if its higher than you wanted to pay for tech that you dont want? Wtf are you talking about? Bro people who dont want certain features shouldnt be forced to share the extra cost baked into the bike they want when they DONT WANT those features. Jesus christ

[@rondobrondo]

@@BornAGoon It would be like saying, "there should be no base model honda civic, everyone needs to pay for the special edition with upgraded speakers, heated seats, power seats, etc"

[@justsomedude445]

LoLoLoL how dare they allow you to try out options for free before you decide if you wish to pay for them or not huh ??!!! you geniuses you yikes

[@justsomedude445]

and it is not even close to $800 USD , i paid $179 for my Norden and the most ive heard of any actual KTM owner pay is $400

[@Revy8]

not angry enough. completely unacceptable! one of my bikes is a ktm 300. great bike BUT wont buy ktm again

[@Wuestenkarsten]

Get me an old TT 600 from 1986 to 1993, one Garmin GPS and that´s it!! No more Electronic Shit needed! To the Hell, why is everyone now with this Electronic Rubbish? How could we survive the Sahara Desert in the 80/90ties without Electronic a Millenial will ask??? Today´s Generation needs even a fucking Phone App to breath in and out, and if you take their Mobile Phone away the will suffocate.....

[@tenbear5]

yes, they’ve installed crippleware. Remember, the new WEF drive is for subscription only: you’ll own nothing & be happy.

[@gosolobox]

I was already anti KTM. This isn't helping..

[@JustinBurdick-b7h]

Pleaseeeee do a video on how harley is the biggest pile of monkey doo doo u can possibly buy, youngsters comming up might make the mistake of buying one and wind up stuck with a $42,000.00, 13,527 pound 5 horsepower doo doo trap

[@jasonrichardwatts]

Hopefully enough people boycott KTM over this and the entire industry learns that it’s a bad idea!

[@BornAGoon]

Thanks for watching and commenting I appreciate it

[@robsonenduro3316]

KTM is already overpriced as is, these new sells tricks are shameless. Personally I'd never buy adventure bike from ktm anyway. They do well only one thing which are dirt bikes, nothing more. My 2017 ktm 500 exc-f is a great bike. Regarding the electronics, I don't care - if you want cruise control get a touring bike.

[@kcimages5157]

well worth it , the bikes a steal .

[@richardharris5819]

I will never buy any vehicle that uses a paywall scam.

[@edivollgas719]

Just a part of the freedom loss. Just look out for SIM cards in bikes. Obviously only for our safety .... as we are told .... but the also enabling a lot of other things ....

[@BornAGoon]

good points

[@chrisdadigger1018]

You don’t need tech on a motorcycle. Learn to ride ! All it does is drive up the price of the motorcycles. If you need traction control then that motorcycle is too powerful for you. Go get a moped.

[@BornAGoon]

true learn to ride first

[@visionlightlab6094]

Something I paid for turning into a hungry vending machine? Nope!

[@BornAGoon]

Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment

[@simulacrae]

But, it's not locked behind a paywall? All of those features were options in the previous generation as well, the only difference now is that you have access to all of them when you first buy the bike. If you don't want the quick shifter then don't buy it.

[@streddaz]

I agree, it’s an option that you get to try before you buy. They are clever, as this way, you get to see what the electronic options are like so may miss them when they are gone. If they only gave you the option when you purchase it, you don’t know any better, so may decide not to purchase it.

[@simulacrae]

@@streddaz exactly. And since these are one time purchases and not some form of subscription I really don't see the issue.

[@toothasaurus]

If you buy it, you own it. If I want to hack it, that’s fine by me. I love my 500exc and it made me a Ktm fan, but f*ck ktm

[@someone46018]

Don't buy a KTM, problem solved!.

[@tracey38999]

Nope!!!!!!

[@Raven74947]

They sell you the hardware but not the software. So you own the bike but not the ability to make it run. That's just plain dumb. Not that the manufacturer or dealer is the dumb one.

[@lovehistory5305]

I was thinking about buying a KTM. Was!

[@Graplernapler]

Well now I can never buy a KTM product, on principle.

[@AT2021Rocker]

I agree it’s a dumb idea but If you can afford a ktm then you can afford the $800.

[@removilmata5377]

A brand that i won´t buy for good!

[@Wuestenkarsten]

Get me an old TT 600 from 1986 to 1993, one Garmin GPS and that´s it!! No more Electronic Shit needed! To the Hell, why is everyone now with this Electronic Rubbish? How could we survive the Sahara Desert in the 80/90ties without Electronic a Millenial will ask??? Today´s Generation needs even a fucking Phone App to breath in and out, and if you take their Mobile Phone away the will suffocate.....I work as well in the Software Industry, and don´t need that Shit in my free Desert Time....Never ever trust a Programmer with your Life!!!(See Tesla´s Shit with Trucks/Bikes Issues which is Murder in my Eyes but called technological Progress if you are a big Brand Industry!!

[@dvx3700]

the budweiser of bikes, dont buy them for a year and the beatches will change their tune

[@alex-su81]

bmw is selling seat heating as a service one has to subscribe for. despicable.

[@WE_OF_THE_NOV]

real life DLC soon.

[@gerbrut007]

Bruh they brought DLCs to motorcycling

[@rondobrondo]

Dude you have no clue what you are talking about. It's not "more expensive" for them to "go through the labor of putting the software on the bikes and standardizing the parts", it's cheaper/more profitable for them to standardize everything and then make it EASIER and more accessible for people to upgrade just THEIR TECH instead of needing to add custom components after the fact because it's CHEAPER to add in a few bits of extra wiring and a few extra sensors with THE OPTION of upgrading later instead of never giving someone the chance to even consider wanting that tech in the first place. It's cheaper to standardize this stuff while at the factory and then hope for money on the backend once people realize that RIDER AIDS ON BIKES ARE ACTUALLY A GOOD THING AND THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE SAY ITS NOT IS BECAUSE IT USED TO BE POPULAR TO SAY THAT ELECTRONICS ON BIKES WERE BAD FOR THE RIDER. This is the best possible situation for both riders and the company's bottom line. WE GET TO TEST FEATURES WE MIGHT NOT KNOW WE WANT OR GET RID OF FEATURES THAT WE ACTUALLY DONT WANT, instead of getting conned into thinking we need the full tech package on a BMW and paying $2700 for stuff we wont actually want or need later one. So while we customize, KTM is able to get extra money later on when people decide they actually DID WANT that particular technology after all. IF YOU PEOPLE CAN"T AFFORD QUALITY BIKES FOR WHAT A COMPANY IS ASKING THEN DONT BUY THEM AND GO BUY AN ECONOMY MOTORCYCLE WITH ALL THE STANDARD FEATURES BUNDLED TOGETHER SO THAT EVERYONE HAS TO PAY MORE FOR THINGS THEY DONT WANT And no i'm not a fan boy because I just bought an MT09 SP

[@BornAGoon]

I like the idea of the Demo subscription Its really the same as its ever been they are just letting you sample

[@markjacobs3956]

I use any feature I want on my Tiger Rally Pro for less money than the 890. I also have had 15k of no issues and hard use in Colorado as my buddies 890 sits in the shop...for the fifth time this year.

[@bradleybaker8894]

@@markjacobs3956 ...and that what keeps me from spending money on a KTM, as much as I have liked the ones I have been on. The summer goes by and the bike sits in the shop. Not for me.

[@markjacobs3956]

@@bradleybaker8894 I've had a 1200, 800 and now 900 Tiger. Over 25k on each. Not one issue after 50/50 use. Ts do not get any love except from those in the know.

[@bradleybaker8894]

@@markjacobs3956 I own a 2022 Triumph Rocket 3 GT triple black. It’s been a good bike. Torque beast

[@jaixc]

Thats bad PR for KTM then. I agree they should just charge a little over 15k for the bike with all of the tech specs added, rather than making this an option and people realizing they might need some of those features down the road. That idea is going to discourage a lot of new buyers and a lot of them will just buy another brand of bike. I never really thought it was a subscription, from the previous video comment I made on your last video. My thing was the demo is already installed on the bike, and to be charged extra later on is a bogus idea on KTM, as I'm sure there is a lot of people who have thought about this too. But they should have a bare minimum bike without the electronics, and then a tech version with everything installed, so customers don't run into this issue later on if they chose the bare bones bike. That's just terrible marketing on KTM's behalf. I'm not to fond of the litre adventure bikes myself, but I am interested in the smaller bikes coming out like the 700+ cc bikes. I for one wouldn't be traveling across country on a bike anytime soon, and a weekend ride of 2 to 3 hundred miles going through some harsh terrain is what I'd want in a bike ride with a few other riders to accompany the trip and get some good pictures and hangout before going home. I live in the Appalachian mountains, so there are a lot of roads and trails I can dip down to test the suspension and the integrity of the bike. The Adventure bikes I thought were cool, but I'm used to dual sports anyways, and I just couldn't wrap my head around the thought of going from a 400cc to a litre bike just to get the comfort of riding longer distances with totes to carry stuff.

[@BornAGoon]

Thanks for commenting and watching the video Lots of good trails in the Appalachian

[@johncadogan9450]

Aint buying KTM that's for sure

[@BarqB]

Just a matter of time till it gets Hacked

[@cliff1551]

I THINK ITS A GREAT ,FANTASTIC IDEA ,GO KTM , GOT TO FUND GAS GAS SOME HOW 👍👍👍👍

[@BornAGoon]

We all need a Gas Gas

[@dr650tim]

@@BornAGoon I have 2 GG already and a KTM quad. Was looking at the 23 890R but hate the thought of paying the premium price for all the options and then having to pay more to actually use them.

[@cliffcaissie1526]

Hope ktm go bankrupt,, for trying to steal from there customers...WILL NEVER BUY FROM KTM...

[@WheelsWhips]

DUCK KTM. Ill never buy one ever.