Your Factory Diesel Pistons Suck. Here's Why | Mahle [TECH TALK]

Why would you want a forged piston and not a cast one in your diesel engine? When might you be better off with a steel piston instead of aluminum, but at what risk? At PRI 2017 Eric from Mahle gave us the answers to these questions and much more in this great interview.
As well as materials, Eric talks about expansion and tolerances, how steel pistons can be almost as light as aluminum due to special design considerations, and why OEM pistons have a massive design flaw compared to aftermarket pistons due to their different goals.
Want to learn more about diesel engine tuning? That’s right, we said DIESEL engine tuning and not EFI tuning this time. We have just released our brand new Diesel Tuning Fundamentals course. Get ahead of the competition and learn more about it and diesel tuning with HPA instantly: www.hpacademy.com/courses/die...
#highperformanceacademy #learntotune #dieseltuning #mahle #mahlepistons

[@hpa101]

Want to learn more about Diesel Tuning? The Diesel Tuning Fundamentals online course is available now: www.hpacademy.com/courses/diesel-tuning-fundamentals/

[@vaislaj]

High Performance Academy J V here, was waiting for it for few months. Thanks

[@jeremiaswitt1374]

There are a lot of misinformation about forged pistons out there, I appreciate the fact that mahle doesn't try sell us what we want to hear and give us something different, instead they help us to choose the right product (with real facts)

[@bannana6290]

make 1k with stock bottom end

[@NoClassic]

These are always great interviews. You can generally see the subjects are happy to be asked well thought out questions.

[@TomarenaiEraserRain]

These are my people! Lol. When I talk like this to most people they have a glazed distant look in their eye. Really appreciate your insightful interviews! I love to hear about the nuances of tuning. It really is a privilege that so many people in the tuning world are willing to share some of their wisdom with those eager to learn!

[@hpa101]

Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for taking the time to comment Legin. Appreciate it =D We have a lot of great ones lined up from the 2018 Pikes Peak Airstrip Attack and Hillclimb I'm sure you're going to enjoy as well over the next few weeks. Keep an ear out - Taz.

[@HavokTheorem]

Props to Andre and Eric for these fantastic questions and answers. Shows a lot of understanding.

[@jasonrunyon2663]

I worked at Mahle for almost 15 years. Helped make a lot of pistons

[@armandtdupreez1026]

He is just such a good interviewer. It's awesome to watch! Good to have some diesel tech talk every now and then

[@tylertc1]

These are always great! If I may, it would be awesome to see some of the pistons he was talking about - maybe sometimes (if a prop is available) have them sorta showcase what they're referring to (when able). Regardless, these videos are absolutely awesome, never gets old. You've also got great and relevant questions. Thanks Andre!

[@paulwhitham7990]

Really appreciate these Videos. Keep them coming. Thanks

[@g__wizz]

most people ask stupid shit with these style product showcases. this on the other hand is great, not only were the questions applicable, you also managed to pick the brain of an engineer.

[@hpa101]

Cheers mate! Not the usual mainstream approach for sure and it takes a few interviewees by surprise, and conversely some of them are awesome and take Andre by surprise too. It's great 🤘 Check out our new podcast too, if you like this you're going to LOVE those as well: www.hpa-tunedin.com/ - Taz.

[@fail_fast]

Awesome video. I rarely comment but this video deserves it. More tech talks from experts and engineers PLEASE

[@hpa101]

Glad you enjoyed it. We'll do our best! We're always so lucky and are very appreciative to find people like Eric who take the time to share their knowledge with us =) - Taz.

[@RadDadisRad]

I built equipment for Federal Mogul and got to see the casting of diesel and gas pistons and cylinder liners. The cast in place top ring groove is pretty cool.

[@Dumbo3.1428]

Eric knows his stuff. Kudos

[@ryanp6138]

We run 300hp per Litre diesel engines and pistons always melt first

[@joseywales2037]

yeah aluminum melts at 1200f two peice steel top the way to go

[@fitrianhidayat]

These are well thought questions. Nice interviews

[@XHikotheproX]

Super informative. I love these videos

[@MrAndrius12]

Idk why, but Andre always manages to make me laugh XD (But in a good way). Brilliant interviewer, keep 'em coming! :D

[@crisray6789]

Excellent as always.

[@sharkbaitsurfer]

Brilliant interview!

[@vintagespeed]

that was worth watching, thanks!

[@hpa101]

Glad you enjoyed it, cheers! - Taz.

[@themikeshow]

What a great representative of his company.

[@hidmagnum]

If Eminem wasn't Eminem and just was Mashall

[@b.7401]

😂😂😂😂

[@b.7401]

I just noticed that my first name is slim and yours is shady 😂😂

[@damienbiggen619]

Can you make a video from Speed of Air company? They make dimple pistons for diesel engine and have great result!

[@SunilSundar]

Part of the counterweight on the crankshaft accounts for the piston mass right? So if you change the piston and put in a piston that's a different weight, do you need to make changes to the crankshaft as well?

[@briankemp2290]

Whats funny is Mahle produce the pistons for CAT 35 and 36 series engines. If you look at the underside of the crown there is the lazer etched Mahle logo and NCR code square.

[@JosephArata]

Mahle makes OE pistons for most of the diesel engine manufacturers. Cummins ISX, ISB, and ISL class engines all have Mahle steel pistons in them since common rail high pressure fuel systems took off.

[@danieldimitri6133]

Basically all the diesels I work on for dsny sanitation have mahle pistons. They also make pistons for power sports engine manufacturers like Rotax, maybe others and I believe they make pistons for BMW and Mercedes.

[@leneanderthalien]

@@danieldimitri6133 Mahle did make Pistons for many manufacturers, inclusive PSA, but today the most diesel references for PSA engines are made by Kolbenschmitt with the same level of quality and similar technology: i had work by both manufacturer so i known they products...

[@astonswai798]

Wow, I didnt know that. Good stuff.

[@mataiterapreha]

Very interesting! Diesels are just a different realm compared to petrol, its almost like having to learn internal combustion over again.

[@bryanst.martin7134]

Many forms of ICE there is. Original design was for Alcohol. And a design with Peanut oil as a backup if Corn stocks were jeopardized. Hmm, like today! The Peanut oil was adapted to Diesel oil by Rudy.

[@JosephArata]

Not difficult if you memorize that Diesel combustion is air quenched and not fuel quenched unlike gasoline spark ignition.

[@coconutads]

I need pistons for a 3.0 d4d 1kd ftv.. im sure having trouble finding good aftermarket parts

[@anthonymoreels]

Can a motec m1 diesel ecu control 2 turbos ? Or is there another ecu that can do this ? I wanne build a sequential or compound twin turbo 1.9diesel for big power

[@junalfred2606]

is izumi mahle is the same with the mahle?

[@bryanst.martin7134]

The Mahle rep didn't reference Hypereutectic versions. Very successful bridge between forged and cast aluminum.

[@JosephArata]

Yes he did, but they aren't called Hypereutectic pistons in trade, just in marketing wankery speak. They are high silicon based forged Aluminum pistons. Hypereutectic is a marketing trade name. It's literally what almost all forged aftermarket aluminum pistons are made out of now because they don't grow as much as the cheap alloy pistons.

[@amd1009]

Pablo Sanchez really knows what his talking about

[@pbalerig]

So cool

[@TATEXPRESSINC]

I love the video

[@aaronwright561]

May be interested in interviewing cp/carillo about there new street forged product lines

[@hpa101]

Actually asked them for an interview at PRI but it was a couple of minutes before closing on the last day and everyone on the stands just wanted to go home by that point 😉Will see if we can track them down again this year!

[@aaronwright561]

High Performance Academy everyone is always busy busy busy sometimes on the journalism end I think its probably higher pressure than on the track hahaha!

[@gtgodbear6320]

What's the best 4-cylinder diesel for power?

[@issacnewton9443]

CJAA/CBEA

[@DexMaster881]

With all respect to Mahle. Why are we talking about Diesel durability in 2018? That's been left behind in the 80s.

[@hpa101]

I think you might have your dates mixed up there looking at what is available today compared to the 80's ;) - Taz.

[@garypeatling7927]

I agree high performance diesels might as well be petrol diesel used to be bit sluggish on hills and acceleration but lasted almost for ever and didnt guzzle fuel latter scania use 20 % more fuel than ones from 20 years ago

[@DexMaster881]

@@hpa101 You mean Diesel race cars that die After 1/3 of old slugs that could even pull trailers maintaining consumption and functioning gearboxes?

[@RadDadisRad]

Steel pistons would be the best compromise for a street driven race truck. Also mahle builds amazing pistons.

[@GTRliffe]

a picture is 1000 words man! Unless Andre is freestyling, this would have been a very educational pice if there were a few simple pics of the topic.

[@hpa101]

We do try hard to get extra b-roll beyond what we can shoot at an event, but it isn't always possible sadly. This isn't a scripted interview that is planned before the event by any means - Taz.

[@Divided-Kingdom]

You are correct. My pistons do suck. They suck air in for the next stroke, my diesel doesn't have a turbo. How did you know??

[@hpa101]

I could feel it in my waters - Taz.

[@Divided-Kingdom]

@@hpa101 🤣 always enjoy your content, many thanks and well done

[@1977jelliott]

Your pistons travel downwards and create a low pressure, it is atmospheric pressure that fills the void created with air, it is still forced induction, just done by atmospheric pressure.

[@Catrik]

This makes me sad because I have a GM 6.2 :(

[@alexturcin7390]

You can ceramic coat your piston.

[@jaydaksrules5316]

wow just found my 1.8t audi a4 im building has stock mahle pistons :)

[@skiphaskell706]

I read your comment and had to go and check one of the std pistons from a VW 12v VR6 I have. They're the same, made by Mahle. OEM

[@johncholmes643]

Mahle makes many OEM pistons

[@littlerhino2006]

A Cummins spun up to 6,000 RPM, damn.

[@yaldashams3978]

I don't believe that As fan of 5.9 cummins and my truck has 720k miles on it It's diesel not gas

[@bryanst.martin7134]

It was the 10K that struck me.

[@jellyfrosh9102]

@@yaldashams3978 a heavily modified fuel system and bottom end can make a diesel rev like a gas engine. there's a video on youtube of a 7.3 revving to over 5000 RPM.

[@jamest.5001]

Check out Gale Banks channel! Killing a ,Duramax over 800hp mostly stock,

[@anvilsvs]

@@yaldashams3978 Those are race engines, not tuned street. I've got "3200 rpm" springs in my 12V pumps for example.

[@JayDee-bz2ge]

>>The reason a cast DIESEL piston can handle 1000hp while a cast gas piston will fail is NOT due to the mass, it's due to the way the fuel is burned in each... A gas piston sucks air/fuel in, fills the cylinder area, piston comes up, compresses hard & just before the top, a spark plug POPS the mixture causing a controlled explosion.. Diesels are nothing like that at all.. The diesel doesn't mix fuel before the piston starts compressing. The diesel begins "injecting" fuel around the top dead center just as the compression peaks. The heat / compression detonates it , and the injector feeds the burning / expanding fire ball as it chases the piston down during it's power stroke. Basically, a gas engine uses a single instant EXPLOSION to throw the piston, where the diesel SHOVES it during a 3 or 4 inch burn cycle... Try to tow a car using harsh yanks on a tow strap VS a steady tug. The YANK might make it move quick at first, but it's hard on the parts. The steady tug is easier on parts & better to pull up a hill..

[@yaldashams3978]

Mahle part most build in India . Don't be surprised It doesn't mean it's bad thing Cummins build a lot of stuff in India and rebuild factory very high tech in India I wish the do same thing in 🇺🇸 But dollars have more valve in India. That's make us good consumer .

[@RedbadvanRijn-ft3vv]

Mahle is Germany. 80.000 employees world wide.

[@leneanderthalien]

@@RedbadvanRijn-ft3vv The most from the Mahle production (inclusive german cars up to 6 cylinder engines) is made out Germany: for european cars in Poland,Spain,Italy, only the most expansive pistons (sport cars, trucks...) are made in Germany because the high production costs...So a early high reputation french Mahle piston factory was closed and they productions (for PSA,BMW,Volvo,VAG) dispatched between all other Mahle manufactures to increase the profit level...

[@alexstromberg7696]

make some pistons for the BMW M57 in the E60!

[@Xfacehack]

Alex Strömberg And the n57!

[@hpa101]

Fire Mahle an email Alex. If enough people get in touch with companies regarding the products they want things can happen and there's nothing to lose from dropping a line - Taz.

[@MrSupermasi]

Seeing forged steel pistons for the M57 and N57 BMW engines would be great, however the stock cast pistons are made from superior material and will last up to 200hp/liter with proper tuning and small mods on the pistons

[@alexstromberg7696]

@@MrSupermasi yeah but forged is better, also it would be lighter so you'd be able to rev a little higher

[@MrSupermasi]

Unfortunately forged aluminum pistons can't have a steel ring carrier so a piston of this type would be racing only. Forged steel pistons as mentioned in the video are heavier than their aluminum counterparts, however reduced piston pin length can bring down overall oscillating masses of a steel piston assembly to the level of aluminum ones.

[@martinb2262]

The mahle rep knows exactly that motorsport application means it's getting abused on the street. We don't recommend it but we know your going to do it 🤣

[@charlie2king]

I want steel pistons for my ls1

[@DanielVSL]

Oh my god, get that guy away from the lights, you're burning him alive.

[@keithy363]

Do u do them for a zd30 patrol 😂😂 they usually shit themselves

[@hpa101]

Ahh the old 'hand grenade' engines. Been out of the loop for a while but I hope Nissan got more reliability out of them with later versions - Taz.

[@diglarry572]

Sera

[@derxKai]

Less heat issues with Steel Pistons? Anodised Al (AlO3) is weaker than cast Steel? I think i´ll drive to Mahle in Stuttgart tomorrow... They need to write Mahle North America a Letter...

[@JosephArata]

You misunderstood what was said. Cast iron ring groove insert, aluminum forging can't have one so anodizing it helps, but isn't as strong in terms of wear resistance as the cast iron insert. Not it's actual sheer strength.

[@andrejsgelins9296]

@@JosephArata I think shear strenght might be easily lower too. Anodising, other tan wear resistance, will not help much with stenght of part. Higher heat resistance might easily ofset lower heat transfer, as well.

[@Luminaring]

Steel pistons.. used in HCCI too. Wonder if some Wisconsin HCCI researchers need PR on this channel? What are the advantages, problems, and video?

[@bobbyshaftoe]

Why don't they make nicasil pistons?

[@MickeyMishra]

okay so the dude on the left actually speaks really well but during the meantime when you're looking at him he looks like he's about to s*** a brick and he really needs to go to the bathroom

[@GavinY]

' your factory piston sucks ' . Mahle also makes piston for oem . Ironic

[@hpa101]

The title relates to the piston design, not the brand :) - Taz.

[@cayleependerass]

Listening to your New Zealand sounding accent then having to hear the Southern US accent of that Mahle guy is just hard to deal with. I guess not everyone can sound so smooth.

[@hpa101]

Yeah we're pretty lucky to have such a great accent in New Zealand eh! Even though it varies wildly we don't have anything against the US or any other accents, people talk how they talk, it's what they're saying that is important =) - Taz.

[@ShockWaveGamings234fg321f]

1hz engine be like. Are you sure about that

[@erikjohansson1814]

Mahle is good and so is Kolbensmith. Other makes are not worth my attention.

[@MrZeddy100]

That poor American had no idea what the Kiwi was saying. Welcome to our world mate!

[@hpa101]

haha yes some American accents are easier than others, but they can take some getting used to! - Taz.

[@FFM0594]

Piston, not pustun!

[@hpa101]

Nope, we asked our entire country and it's definitely pustun sorry mate, you'll have to change your accent for us 😉- Taz.

[@FFM0594]

​@@hpa101 My sincerest upulugies!

[@phi12]

You need to start showing more b roll and/or visual representation during the video. It would be a lot better than you recording yourself talking to people.

[@hpa101]

Maybe watch some more recent releases ;) - Taz.

[@phi12]

@@hpa101 I have. Seen the one you did with dahm. I watch a lot of your vids. You fo great work.

[@edwardspaccarelli5944]

Like showing the different pistons and design features for us to see?

[@phi12]

@@edwardspaccarelli5944 yes, like hold it in their hand and/or point out what their talking about. Ex: how can you explain the differences of how you milled your piston heads differntly if we can only see the side view and never the top? Car people might understand the lingo, but for people just gettin into cars and trucks it sound like a bunch of words.

[@michaelcuff5780]

Cummins has been making engines for a long assed time! Waaay longer than you ve been alive. They don't suck! You do!

[@hpa101]

I recommend you watch the video before commenting 😉- Taz.

[@michaelcuff5780]

High Performance Academy Do you even own a diesel? Or are you just rachette jawing about something you know nothing about? This guy at mahle is trying to sell pistons.

[@hpa101]

Yes, and we remove passion from the equation and look at the facts and engineering like adults, but each to their own. Best of luck with your stock Cummins build, I'm sure you will enjoy it and as it's yours you can do what you want with it, that's the beauty of owning and doing your own build =) - Taz.