Your First CEDH Game | Intro To CEDH Series

[@mitchellglover7718]

I'm not one for CEDH myself - however, listening and watching these videos helps me understand the game more. Thank you!

[@Locustnism]

Can you please stop making such quality content in such short period of time

[@kwhale204]

I've been playing in cedh games for 2 years now and I'm still learning alot from these videos. Thx guys

[@carterlarson5647]

a lot

[@muratokutucu4209]

I am not looking to play cedh but man your narrator has such a nice voice to listen to. Also it is very helpful still and interesting for any edh player !

[@bodaciouschad]

Yours is a dangerous road to walk when you lend your ears to the seductive whispers of CEDH power in a world of casual play. I fear you may already be lost; doomed to apply these deck building techniques and gameplay principles to your casual group. You are on the path of CEDH pub stompers, and if you do not change direction, will end up where you are headed.

[@muratokutucu4209]

@@bodaciouschad Jeez that sounds like i gonna be sith lord after i put mana crypt in my deck :D.

[@TheG4urdian]

Not gonna lie...I was geeking out about the dragonshield sealed sleeves I didn't know that was a thing!!!

[@CharlotteMimic]

Tolarian Community College did a review of them, apparently they're really good!

[@xx3uddhaxx]

They are the only ones I use. I preordered a box of the sealable last May. Buyer beware they do make your deck thicker so I had to switch edh deckboxes ou with different ones.

[@borosman720]

Oh yeah! Where's the only Boros table at?

[@jimmykeffer7401]

I have a dream, that one day I will make the greatest boros Cedh deck this world has ever seen

[@Gregelgeek]

Zirda does work on CEDH

[@ruaridhusher4373]

the casual room

[@Gregelgeek]

@@ruaridhusher4373 Zirda goes infinite with Basalt Monolith, so can win with Ballista. It can have stax pieces, disruption and win easily.

[@munsulight721]

Winota has some possibility in cEDH .. since it can both goes for infinite and stax the board

[@ThatsEvenBetterBrad]

I love how often your putting these videos out, I wasnt expecting more than 1 a week . Thank you!

[@devnakz]

From the creation of this channel I've become a much better MTG player. Keep up the great content!

[@rachelmcrachel6589]

Enjoy this series. My buddies play on a higher level and watching these and gameplay vids are helpful for getting off the ground

[@xx3uddhaxx]

DS sealable inner sleeves are the Best inner sleeves on the Market by Far. Pros: -They come in clear and smoked -Water Proof ***Disclaimer*** They are water proof as long as you make sure all the extra trapped air is pressed out of the innerback of the sealable sleeve. I waterproof tested myself in dragon shields and UG katana sleeves . Cons -A little awkward at first to sleeve them up but like all things practice makes perfect. -Sealable inner Sleeves make your deck Thicccc. Especially if you have a all foil deck oof . *Rip UG Boulders

[@trestielmercader3991]

Whenever we play cedh w a new learner, the threshold for take-backs/do-overs is whenever new info is gained. So, you better make sure to have done everything you wanted to do before anyone draws a card. That kind o thing.

[@4rc4vu5]

This series is perfect! Please keep it up!

[@slothymtg6015]

Just recently got into cedh because of your content. These videos are so so helpful. Keep it up 🤘

[@Terski92]

For the future video ideas I have two: - What is the typical deck construction in cEDH? For example Command Zone had a video where they put out their general idea how the EDH deck should be built regarding amount of lands, mana ramp, card draw, target removal and board wipes. (Of course having variance because of who's commander and game strategy). Picture about it here: www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/fr6xol/command_zone_commander_deck_template/ - Going through your own deck or building a new cEDH deck from scratch and explaining why the deck has those cards to further the chance of winning. That kind of video(s) would be a lovely showcase how you approach deck building.

[@ziyanli137]

You should never have deck template for a cedh deck. That idea is complete wrong in cedh because each deck has its own optimization. Having the idea of a "typical deck construction" is not appropriate for cedh. Because the answer is always: It depends.

[@Terski92]

@@ziyanli137 Sorry, I haven't played cEDH so I couldn't possibly know. Maybe I wrote it down in a way it was misleading. I meant that it would be nice to know _GENERAL_ template of cEDh deck _COMPARED_ to regular one. I know that mana curve is much different and I've deduced that compared to regular decks there seems to be many times more mana rocks in the cEDH deck. I'm totally aware that it "always depends" as it depends in regular EDH as well. There can't be "a perfect template", but I bet these guys as veteran cEDH players can give some generalizations how they approach deck building.

[@5ManaAndADream]

@@Terski92 Its kinda hard because different win cons have vastly different deck construction. So does different colours. A good rule of thumb is 29-30 lands with it being less common to see either 31 or 28 lands. You want as much relevant tutor density as you can get (ie if you're a creature deck and your win cons are creatures, sylvan tutor is relevant but Idylic tutor probably is not). If you are a proactive deck everything in your deck save maybe 5-10 forms of interaction/protection should serve to forward your game plan. If you are reactive most of your deck should be devoted to slowing down opponents and interacting. I'm not going to bother mentioning adaptive decks because they're even more case by case. Most of your deck should sit under 3 mana cards, if you're playing a 6+ drop, you should intend to cheat it into play or it should end the game on the spot. Also generally running a win con, with one back up win con. But even those are heavilly variable, for instance Food chain is a 2 card combo; food chain + a creature you can cast from exile. Consultation decks are a 2 card combo with consultation/Thoracle, but run duplicates of consultation like cards. Hulk decks require Hulk, and 3-5 pieces for hulk to tutor up so it is a lot more expensive to deck construction. They also generally cheat hulk into play via Flash (now banned) or reanimation spells. But a lot of the commanders have a wholly unique deck construction; for instance The gitrog monster It runs a wopping 34 lands, and the goal is just a 1 card combo; get dakmor salvage into the grave, with a full hand and the gitrog monster in play, dredge it in your draw step (giving you 8 cards in hand) then abuse the discard step you then constantly reshuffle your deck netting mana. There are quite a few commanders like this that are wildly unique from anything else on the data base, and this is why its hard to give a template. The best thing to do is understand mana is traditionally 29-30 and look at the list of staples by colour. As well as analyze your commander really closely (what does this commander provide me that is wholly unique, and nothing else does in the same capacity, then try to abuse that).

[@Terski92]

@@5ManaAndADream Thank you! Your answer was much enlightening! Well, maybe my "template" idea for a video is off, but instead my 2nd idea for a video might be better then? It could even become a series (although niche) as I can't find many videos at all about building cEDH decks here in KZbin. (Reddit etc are full of those)

[@DusttNZ]

@@5ManaAndADream great answer. Thank you for taking the time to write out. Even the "29-30 lands" is a great guide to get started with. Cheers

[@HIWTYLSL]

My first cedh game was a game where I was handed kess storm and facing off against 3 stax decks and I suffered for 2 hours

[@granteklund9943]

I'm sorry

[@DanTomY93]

I really enjoyed this video! A friend of mine has been encouraging me to look into the format more, this helped push me over the edge so I sleeved up some good cards and joined his cEDH table and had a whale of a time! Don't get me wrong, great video, but I might take umbridge with one of the general points made in it: When things like threat assessment, format knowledge and "making optimal plays" were being discussed, I felt like the message was "if you're not a good player, you're not really welcome at our table". And I'm not sure I like that. It could be that this is an interpretation thing, but I just feel like the message was "you must be this skillful to play this game". And that feels wrong to me, am I reading it wrong?

[@robertandersen9284]

its less about 'you're not welcome at the table' and more about the fact the cedh is a higher level, if you are a poor player in edh you can still eek out wins because it is casual but poor plays in cedh will only net you losses, its not that its unwelcome and more that it does require a higher tier of play. playing at that level will make you a better player by virtue of your mistakes being punished rather than forgiven, cedh is a cruel mistress, but one that wants the best for you. basically a poor player will still be welcome but you probably won't win until you learn from some mistakes.

[@praius7960]

Dragon Shield Sealable inner sleeves are great for protection but they will make your deck too big to fit into a standard 100+ deckbox so please bear that in mind before sleeving your commander deck with them.

[@alexmusselman7090]

Love these videos! Keep it up ❤️

[@PhazonOmega]

What IS double sleeving? Is that the simple clear thin sleeves under the normal thick sleeves?

[@jacobphillips8410]

Yep

[@MrSpleenface]

"Deception is not okay" is a little bit simplistic IMO. While many people have differing opinions, most people I've played with say something like "no outright falsehoods". You can mislead people with subjective or vague statements, especially in response to requests for information.

[@DerpyLaron]

I think that is what they meant. Don't lie. You don't have and should not give them perfect information.

[@tavern.keeper]

I disagree. Lying is part of the game. If I say I don't have any counter spells in my hand when I really do, then that might sway someone's decision of whether to make a move or to wait. This game is won or lost on players' decisions. Influencing those decisions in your favor and resisting others' attempts to influence you are important skills.

[@hiddenleaf414]

spindlyspiders I disagree. “No one wants to play with a liar.” I know in all 3 of my play groups if you are known as the liar you’re dying first to the 3 other players.

[@MrSpleenface]

@@tavern.keeper That's certainly a strategy, but it means you sacrifice the potential to actually convince people when you really need to. When the chips are down, having people believe you when you say "I have no way of answering this" can be worth more than the one game you will win with a blatant lie.

[@chocolateking1143]

It’s only okay to lie during a tournament. You need to win those packs at all costs. Duh lol

[@brandonguthrie8122]

Great video :)

[@benjamincarter6095]

Diaper sleeves! Seriously though, great video.

[@panzerjaeger3847]

Play with like minded people, that’s my take on the gist of the video and I stick to that. To me it’s better to avoid groups that are just negative towards good and efficient plays and deck building. You can sugarcoat / portray this as a PSA of sorts on how we should try to bridge the divide or convince what are good practices but it’s best to leave others be and move on if the attitude is not welcoming.

[@jackattackhissnack]

Would it be looked down upon if I used a deck made entirely of proxies? I'm interested in cedh online via Webcam but I'm poor and pretty much just have enough to buy the Webcam and card sleeves.

[@reapzplayz5480]

I also would like to know the answer to this ^

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

as long as you okay with your group first, it's fine. The Playing With Power MTG webcam discord league (that you get via Patreon) is 100% okay with proxies. Most of the community is.

[@cerietke]

I wonder if being known to make spite plays may discourage attacks in future games, thereby increasing your chance in those games and thus it being usable as a politics tool. I know this to be true in regular EDH games, but I wonder if the same might apply in cEDH or that players tend to ignore that or that the games are such that you may not get the chance to make the spite play? In other words, are there (commonly) inter-game politics in cEDH?

[@soulbound11]

Question: If you have an effect that hurts a player and your threat assessment places all players as being roughly equal so you decide to have that effect target a player who previously hurt you out of "spite" is that a spite play you shouldnt make? Obviously, you target the biggest threat first, but all things being equal except that one player hurt you earlier... seems ok to me? If that is not acceptable, how would you recommend determing who it hurts? An example to make that easier, everyone has a 1/1 and your turn is about to start with a Staff of Nin. Optimal play is to utilize that staff to deal one damage. Assuming there is no obvious reason to target a specific creature or player, who do you target? Question: If you are not currently in a position to win and you save someone else from losing so that you can delay the game in hopes of drawing what you need to get back in the game, is that "kingmaking"? If you are being killed (say by being attacked with a bunch of creatures) and you are effectively dead, does still declaring blockers to kill a bunch of attacking creatures, possibly crippling the attacking player's board state, count as "kingmaking?"

[@oo7x7oo]

I love that you highlight how people play in cEDH: no spite plays and people play the most optimal moves. This is what brought me to cEDH, and even in a casual game I enjoy if people stick to that mentality. I hate to play with people who get mad when I destroy or disrupt his plans, if you don't want to be disrupted then you should go play solitaire.

[@HugoRaymond]

What is the song playing in the background, it's so catchy?

[@jibriweathers170]

What are some good budget tutors in the grixis colors to buy?

[@dillonp618]

I havent seen any deck boxes that will hold a double sleeved deck. Does anyone have some recommendations?

[@kinya88_]

ultimate guard or ultra pro 100+ deck box will just do fine

[@TS-pg8lx]

DS makes hard cases that do. There are also boxes called Boulders that I'm not sure who they are made by. Fatpacks hold a few sleeved decks. Finally, certain toolboxes easily hold multiple and have a handle and latch for easy carrying.

[@louiscaprini6277]

With the baseline that all players are there to win, are any strategies outright frowned upon? I'm building a Lavinia, Azorolius Renegade deck, and I am pursuing the Knowledge Pool lock. I do have an actual win con aside from that, but I love the lock.

[@benjaminwilliams2859]

Look up the four horsemen, decks that are not able to be shortcutted or deterministic are frowned upon. However if you talk with your group about how they feel they might allow you to shortcut a technically non defined loop. Other than that just have a definite plan for how you are going to mechanically cause the end of the game(commander damage, drawing, life loss, win effects, lose effects) and be ready to present how they work. The worst aspect of competitive magic is the eggs deck from modern past, it takes 30+ minutes for them to execute their plan and they cannot tell if they will win until they do, so you have to wait for them, one pro player left, got lunch and came back and his opponent was still going, just win.

[@rhozpogi]

The only triggers u cant go back r the may triggers. If it doent have may if has to happen.

[@soulbound11]

It "Has" to happen, but it is possible to forget and your opponent is not required to remind you.

[@heatedchill6632]

This idea of "playing to win isn't the same as playing to have fun" is just bullhonky, I go into ALL sorts of games with the mentality of having fun, but winning while doing so. Great video, I've been enjoying this series a lot, keep up the good work!

[@wrenthewraith1689]

Just to make sure I'm correct, if the table misses a trigger that is NOT a may ability, would the table then do the trigger as soon as they remember it?

[@makarzorklin8265]

Yes. The most common missed trigger is a mana crypt damage trigger. If you forget and remember later or someone reminds you, then you roll at that time. Even for positive effects you can if its a must, but it doesn't mean you have to remind that player.

[@benso309]

How do you rank your edh deck to be consider cedh.?

[@GQD9]

What the 'common' price for cedh deck? How to score the deck power lvl? I just want to know how far behind my current deck is) and try to upgrade it! Thanks

[@joakimandersson7769]

You dont have to "score" anything since everyone is just making their deck as optimal as possible. It's like scoring a legacy-deck: everyone just plays to win. If you always lose, upgrade. If you always win, congratulations. :P

[@EpicBoyJo]

@@joakimandersson7769 o

[@zoesequeira5388]

Tbh I'm more worried about playing CEDH after watching this video than I was before. Like I don't want to upset anyone because I forget to say that I only had a $200 budget for my deck

[@GSGPINBALL]

How acceptable are proxies in cEDH when you're first starting out or in webcam games?

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

The webcam community is very proxy friendly. Our league 100% allows proxies and I know many others that do as well.

[@eduardogutierrez3753]

While 99% of my decks are not CEDH, they are beginning to be built with more finely tuned goals in mind. And now most of my playgroups don’t like playing against me just because I usually pull really far ahead and end up being an aggressive player lol

[@ninjaatnight4]

This one time I played Cedh with Ovalor and I had like 4 lands so I was doing nothing and this muldrotha deck was clearing in the lead this man targeted me just because I counted one of his spells

[@David-xw7wg]

do you think that cedh games generallly run shorter, longer or about the same as edh?

[@RandomGuyCDN]

They generally are shorter than casual games. Some times you draw the nuts and win real quick or theres a bunch of interaction and games go for an hour.

[@临高]

usually shorter.

[@patrickdavis8271]

Shorter. For my deck, and my play group, I can pull a win on turn 3 at the earliest and consistently on turns 5 - 7 if no dramatic interaction happens.

[@xx3uddhaxx]

Short quick games but the trade off is many more games.

[@GamerdevilPro]

Re Dragon Shield outer sleeves: I personally feel like they shuffle incredibly poorly due to them being longer than necessary which makes tutoring pretty unfun and detracts from the fun of the game for me. I much prefer Ultra Pro pro-matte sleeves, have a matte front and are *much* smoother to shuffle.

[@drewdanaceau8844]

GamerdevilPro I agree!

[@xx3uddhaxx]

Try the UG Katana they are matted backed, clear face, and feel like butter shuffling.

[@koelkast9]

0 issue with shuffling them to be honest

[@handlesareobnoxious]

Anti-glare?! But my foils!!!

[@uliketurtle]

Yeeeeees

[@uliketurtle]

I'm trying to get more competitive and these videos are very helpful. Please keep them up

[@grouphug1013]

"No one wants to sit there for 20 minutes" -

[@chocolateking1143]

My first EDH game ever there was a Godoplayer that won on turn 2. Lol it was during a tournament. We got destroyed so hard and paid 10 dollars just to loose before doing anything. I wanted to be a jerk just like that so I started buying expensive cards.

[@onunca2324]

Key word there tournament

[@chocolateking1143]

@nubi an imagine taking a 3k deck to a local tournament... where everyone’s deck is under $300 dollars LOL. Just to destroy everyone and win packs. I want to do the same and become a jerk so everyone will love me.

[@ziyanli137]

This is a tournament, so he is not a jerk and he is doing perfectly fine. If you are not ready to lose in a tournament, then you should not go.

[@chocolateking1143]

I guess you didn’t read my comment correctly.

[@orsettomorbido]

@@ziyanli137 He was a jerk, unless the tournament was clearly set up for cEDH. It's on the organizers to make clear the expected power level but also on the player to make sure they know the expected power level. If it was EDH, then hey, they just pubstomped. Boo on them.

[@jonwalquist4016]

Oh, good old Land Destruction and stax. And combo. The things that are frowned upon, taboo at casual tables. I've been on this list for quite a while and I wrote a primer for it as well. Klothys Apocalypse. Welcome to the freshest hell out there. tappedout.net/mtg-decks/klothys-apocalypse-cedh/?cb=1597381770

[@byoutifulmonster]

I get spite plays, but I like kingmaking, it just adds more interaction and more for the winner to work for.

[@kurtzimmerman9272]

I feel like some of these rules apply when not playing with your friends if someone blows up my library lm coming for yea ;)

[@iraingaming]

Just a personal opinion . Shouldn't cedh be no politics ? 🤣 Usually i play around my groups I always told them if you're really capable of pulling the combo off or stopping a combo without politics is your ability . ( Usually I'm the one being target when politics hits 🤣🤣 ) But, of course there's post game discussion about what other player should do when someone trying to combo off or gaining too much value . As an example is player " A " has a fish and study out , player " B " shouldn't says to player " C " and player " D " don't feed the fish or blow up players " A " study right ? I feel it's players " A " ability to get his or her fish and study to the field safely . Because I don't play politics but I always mentioned during post games discussion . Good day everyone and stay safe from Singapore 🙂

[@RandomGuyCDN]

As they explained, politics is used differently. Casuals have stupid deals like "ill do this for you but you cant attack me for 3 turns" type of stuff. While Cedh is like "hey can you take a hit from my tymna so i can draw and potentially get a card to stop this person who is way ahead of all of us"

[@lerbyn]

If you play to win and politics is a way for yourself to further your own game by miss directing threats or group together to stop another players win that isn't a problem imo

[@lukaro7074]

Hi, I just have a couple of questions to ask, since some of the things you said seem a little contradictory. Specifically, it seems to me having a rule, or at least an understanding, that kingmaking is frowned upon or to be avoided seems a little contradictory with the idea that everyone should play to win. It's common practice in normal EDH for a person who is about to loose to spend his last turn (or however long he has left before he loses) to inconvenience the player who will kill him as much as possible, as well as helping out any other players at the table as much as possible. This is not done solely for the purpose of annoying the player who knocked you out of the game: it servers as a deterrent, as with this system killing a player you were not prepared to kill can be a potentially game-losing misplay, and as such actively engaging in kingmaking when you are about to lose can substantially improve your chances of winning a given game. The same thing can also be said, albeit to a lesser degree, about "spite" plays: they're more rarely the right thing to do, as the resources can generally be spent on something that more directly advances your game plan or reduces your opponent's chances of winning, but nonetheless, being clear that a certain action taken against you by a player will result with you responding to that action in kind can be a perfectly valid way to improve your chances of winning. Or, at least, it's viewed as a perfectly valid way to improve your chances of winning at a normal EDH table. That's what's so confusing to me: that plays which, at a normal EDH table, are accepted as perfectly valid ways of improving your chances of winning the game, are supposedly rejected at a CEDH table, despite CEDH also supposedly being all about making the plays that will give you the highest likelihood of winning the game, and I'm just looking for an explanation for what seems to me to be a pretty substantial discrepancy.

[@onunca2324]

Doing that sort of spite play is a kind of negotiation not a retribution. In a social game like edh you can communicate a threat that improves your board If agreed, although i think one should only do so If the other player doing so is ahead, If not It is only clear to disrupt someone else ahead not the one who set you back. So no. Doing It in a cEDH table where every one can win at any given time, its best not use your resourses as to furder disrupt someone who used some of his for you, while others spent nothing dealing with already losing players those players making each other lose more is not wise

[@TheRetroCat1]

For example, if a player is attacking you with creatures and you are going to die no matter what but you can destroy one of their permanents, there would be no point in doing so because your chances of winning are still 0

[@lukaro7074]

@@onunca2324 I can agree with that in a sense. Spite plays, unless in a situation where you threaten to harm another player if they make a specific play, and then follow through on that threat, are basically never the correct play, even in regular EDH. However, that wasn't really my point. My point was more about asking why is it taboo to do so. Sure, it's rarely going to be the correct play, but I'm sure there is going to be some situation come up where a player needs to cast a removal spell or other form of disruption on some roughly equal threats, and chooses to point that removal at the player who took some action against them rather than one who didn't. That's a situation that will rarely come up, I'm sure, but it's a situation where making a "spite play" is basically optimal. The same can be said for other situations, like choosing who to attack with early game creatures when no-one at the board has gotten a substantial advantage, or even the pre-death kingsmaking plays I talked about in my first post can be described as spite plays. I can kind of understand why the all spite plays all the time approach people some people have in casual EDH would be inappropriate for a competitive setting, but I don't understand why making any spite plays at all would be considered completely taboo in a CEDH setting. On a different note, I feel like the term "spite play" kind of poisons the water a little with implication in this type of discussion. I feel like maybe something like "retaliation plays" would be a better fit?

[@lukaro7074]

@@TheRetroCat1 Not necessarily true. If they realise that you will destroy that permanent, then they may choose not to attack you as a way to keep that permanent, assuming it's important enough. Your chances of winning the game where your opponent actually attacks you may not be altered, but if everyone at the table is aware that you go into kingsmaker mode when you're about to die, there's a real chance that it will factor into their decision as to whether or not to kill you, and maybe win you a couple of games you wouldn't have otherwise. I realise that's likely a rare enough scenario, but there's also no real disadvantage to doing this kind of endgame kingsmaking, so I see no reason not to partake in it if it gives you even a fraction of a percentage point chance of winning a game you otherwise wouldn't have.

[@onunca2324]

@@lukaro7074 making a retaliation play because a person choose your permanente Over the others is by no means an optimal play. That is just being spiteful. Example if p1 removes my Royal assassin i can in response remove 1 of his tapped creatures or p2 tapped creatures and choose p2 because he is clearly ahead after me. And p2 can respond but he was the One who did it! So? This play is what is best for me not worse for him. The point you made of destroying One of his things if he Kills you can be valid In regular edh because it might not be a necessaty to kill you opting not too. In cedh there is no chance anyone can let that happen, there is constant threat of getting killed by everyone anytime and player removal is best removal.

[@True_Ronin]

Triggers are everyone’s responsibility.

[@laurij115]

Some issues with: - I don't think one is obligated to discuss their deck strenght to give additional info before game, you could even feign playing weaker deck to your advantage. - no lying, this should be made more clear, bluffing during politics is okay, like discussing who should answer a big threat. - no kingmaking or retribution: how to clearly define these? Threats of retribution can be part table politics, and should be followed through.

[@montanax8127]

Why wouldn't betraying and lying be part of winning.

[@CharlotteMimic]

Lying and betraying is discouraged because it only works once, and then no one can believe you ever again. It also leads to conflict and frustration between players, when one of the goals of cEDH is to avoid personal attacks/spite plays.

[@chocolateking1143]

Just lie when it counts. If your in a tournament and packs are on the line. Just say you have no answer to something and laugh when you did. LOL

[@montanax8127]

@@CharlotteMimic That's irrelevant in a tournament, you don't know these people. Just betray them and call for the judge when they start hitting your face. Getting disqualified for hitting your face is kind of like an infinite combo.

[@stuartalt7418]

You should totally be allowed to lie in political situations, that's kind of the point. It might not be the most optimal play since your future deals might be questioned, but it's totally a valid line. Your opponents should be careful to make deals with you since you're, you know, their opponent at the end of the day.

[@tj2themax]

If you're going to lie about deals you make then you will have a more difficult time making deals in the future. So yes you can lie and yes it can give you an edge but your basically removing a possible line of play in future games with that group for 1 (possible) win. God forbid you renege on a deal and you still lose. That's just sad.

[@stuartalt7418]

@@tj2themax Sure, that's valid, but to say that lying about a deal isn't in the spirit of a competitive, social game doesn't make much sense. I also think kingmaking should be allowed since that's kind of part of the political structure of the game " if you kill me, I'll make sure you lose". Fair enough.

[@tj2themax]

@@stuartalt7418 I believe kingmaking is fine if the player that would be targeted makes it clear of what will happen if they are and the group understands that this is always a possibility. Now lying or going back on a deal, even if ur group is initially not bothered by it, would probably get old pretty quickly. Plus its hard for me to believe that as being competitive because your not reliant on your skills or deck at that point, just on deceiving. Plus not only would no one believe you when you try to "strike" a deal but they might not believe anything you say in game.

[@stuartalt7418]

@@tj2themax Again, that's completely fair, but to simply say they aren't allowed in cEDH is kind of ignorant

[@tj2themax]

@@stuartalt7418 OK yeah, I guess saying its "not allowed" is not correct. "Generally Frowned upon" would probably fit better

[@mattmiller8818]

No, play without sleeves for the tilt factor!

[@bodaciouschad]

I made a bargain with a player to "not interrupt my board state for 3 turns" in exchange for me not mind slavering them. They agreed. Someone cast a tempt with discovery and I fetched up a glacial chasm, they fetched up field of ruin and struck a deal with the voltron player (who also agreed to work with me for a turn cycle to let me mind slaver the Najeela player into sacraficing their entire board) to fetch a field of ruin and destroy my glacial chasm if voltron would finish me off before Najeela took their turn. I made sure to never bargain with either player again, and to exclusively play decks with plenty of interaction, wheels and hug effects for a week just to make them appreciate the value of being a reliable political partner. Spoiler alert: they learned nothing. Traitorous scum. Same guy who lies in politics also runs a proactive cedh krykar deck at a casual table, so he sucks to play with all around.

[@NECROLORDZ]

It's easy. They play their OP deck at a much more casual table, you let them "win" and then keep playing. After a lot of sessions durdling around waiting for 40+ minutes for your game to finish, he will get the message.

[@bodaciouschad]

@@NECROLORDZ Sadly he has warped the meta. About half of the players also went online and bought full cedh decklists to use. I'm not sure we ARE a casual group anymore thanks to his antics. So much for playing a Muldrotha permanents only deck built around the persist mechanic...

[@NECROLORDZ]

@@bodaciouschad If the group has become something as revolting as you are describing, and turning back seems impossible... then the correct step seems to be leaving the group. Is it hard? Sure it is, hard as vibranium nails. But it is the right choice to seek another group that will not cast you out like that... assuming I got your message right?

[@bodaciouschad]

​@@NECROLORDZ I agree that the easiest thing to do is to look for a new group, but most of the problem players started magic just after dominaria, so it's hard to blame them for mistaking complaints that they brought cedh decks to a casaul table as sore losers whining that they lost. Besides, we had a group of players who wanted to play cedh since the beginning who just used the confusion as an excuse to do so. I think we'll be able to have a cedh group and an edh group moving forwards, it's just been a rough road to get there.

[@ultrakombou]

Its just better catds not a higher level.

[@NECROLORDZ]

"Welcome to cEDH. Our rule is you must carry Consultation Oracle". =P

[@Lonewanderer6666]

Rules for CEDH 1)Be Salty 2) Accused others of Cheating 3) Flip Table

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

You are obviously confusing that with regular EDH.

[@damnjekyll]

"We are just playing at a higher level" I can't speak for ALL cEDH players but more than a few I've come across share this same pretentious attitude.. It's not at all the aptitude of spells brought to the table, it's playing against people who feel they have something to prove over a card game. 🤔

[@nicholasbarnhill9425]

How to TRY HARD with luxury cardboard, now featuring hypocrisy

[@MrSpleenface]

Yeah man, people enjoying stuff that I don't is the *worst*