Your Joy Depends on God’s Election

God’s gift of salvation does not depend on anything that we do or are in ourselves. It depends on God’s own sovereign, gracious freedom.
You may find the full resource at: www.desiringgod.org/messages/y....

[@Notworthy72]

Wow, mind blowing. It is such a blessing to hear this text expounded accurately after years of dancing around the truth from sleight of hand preachers. Thank you so much for uploading these videos!

[@MsAcreage]

Wow! Thank you!

[@JesusGarcia-Digem]

A very tough thing to speak on but AMEN!!!

[@evanu6579]

Jesus Garcia Paul is communicating and explaining that not all Israel is of Israel. Just like not all the children of Abraham were counted for the SEED (promises of the Messiah) Being Israel is by faith and not by works just like how Jacob was chosen for the SEED over Esau before doing anything good or evil. Being Israel is by whatever means God decides. If it’s by faith and not of works then that’s how it is. God will have mercy on whom ever He will have mercy, just like God was merciful to the Israelites in their rebellion and gave judgement to Edom for their wicked deeds. Being part of Israel is for anyone who believes which is why God hardened the Jews that had rejected Him. Through their hardening salvation has come to the Gentiles, just like God has hardened Pharaoh so that His power would be known throughout the nations. God can take the nation of Israel and make two lumps out of it. One for honourable use and the other for dishonour. He’s like the potter spoken of elsewhere in the scriptures..... Jer 18: 6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. 7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. 2Tim 2: 20 ¶ But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. If God wants to take one part of the nation of Israel because of faith and reject those who are trying to work for it then who are you oh man to reply against God. What if God was merciful to the Old Testament Israelites when they deserved destruction (vessels of wrath). It’s because the promised SEED would come through them so that He could have mercy on us Jews who believed. And not only is Jews but also the Gentiles. Not all Israel is of Israel. That’s the point. He makes it very clear what makes Israel, israel. ...... Rom 9: 30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; It’s by faith. Not by works. That’s who Israel is. It’s by whatever means and reason God decides. God bless

[@scottcarter1689]

@@evanu6579 Hello again Evan... It is an admirable thing to treat the text to the details that it deserves... And therefore it's seemingly is how you treat the text. And this is the supernatural aspect is the contextual and exegetical stratification of multiple subjects with divergent and convergent intertextuality. So you're showing your clumsiness by only giving your one contextualization (though validity is there -without question). But you obviously have watched this in the minutiae and definitive articulation of the exegesis and understanding in the above demonstrated perspective as being correct as well... Yet you refuse to give acknowledgement. So the question that you need to ask yourself (doesn't matter about anything else).. is why are you doing this? Is it because you're ignorant?... That seems to hardly be the case... for you have demonstrated an aptitude in handling the text elsewhere (certainly partially myopic)... So another possibility is an insistence on past perceived biases (everybody learns with a bias from a/the predecessor and preceding insistants and assumptions... .. or the third is that you are intentionally omitting it just to delineate your perspective to the exclusion of any other... to which one can only be careful for you! Piper has gone to Great lengths to demonstrate the simultaneity of this strata in addition to what you are referring to - yet you still insist upon denying it. In all charity and honesty... there is no excuse for this or you. I hope that is just flat-out ignorance or learned bias... Because if it is not, it reveals a state of your heart in which you hate the God of Romans 9 and indeed the Bible. Which is precisely what many do, indeed someone I'm sure that you're aware of - Rodger Olson- has said outright, that he would not worship a God like this! I would submit that this is the exact way that's in your heart right now... And you should be very afraid. Because.. Olson, you, and the normal heart is revealing its objection, ire, and obstinance to it's Creator God himself. If you still can't see the exegetical authenticity of everything that I said, it is because you're shaking your fist at God because you are in judgment upon him about this very text among others that I'm sure you're aware of because you've rehearsed and parroted your assembled perspective that you keep regurgitating here and other places. it is a strange conflation of annoyance and appreciation that you holding tension together and you're one noetic mind. Think hard to yourself and if you have a problem with the God that Piper is describing you... need to "make your calling and election sure"and examine yourself to see if you be in the faith... Because everybody holds their fists up to God the way he is. In all earnestness with no contempt, it certainly is a bit unnerving to the human pride when it gets a perception into the real God, and if you are intentionally being opaque... this should demonstrate the need for fear in you..

[@evanu6579]

Scott Carter So please tell me how I could possibly make my election and calling sure when it is God who ordains all things whatsoever come to pass? What role could I possibly play in such a situation?

[@yohanan5950]

SO true .this is what the mystery of the kingdom of GOD is all about ,h\Romans ch, 8 - 29 to 33 .

[@MiriamMonroe]

Treasure.🎶📯

[@aliah8352]

Simple, the true Isreal is the person whom by faith accepts the promise of Christ as Saviour then is of the true Isreal and not the other Isreal.

[@Vetforlife]

God had feelings for "babies in the womb", thus, however He felt about them, they had identity at conception.

[@judyl.761]

Why can’t it be BOTH? For some people, God allows free will to choose him. For other people, he elects them.

[@douglasmcnay644]

Because nobody would ever choose God on their own. Read Romans 3:10-17. People have to be regenerated, given a heart of flesh, in order to be capable of loving God. People are not born neutral, but actually hostile to God.

[@dalbailey858]

So, then I conclude that while I may not "Happy Happy, Joy Joy" I can still be glad I am saved or is this incorrect? Am I supposed to be always cheerful or is that wrong?

[@evanu6579]

Dal Bailey Paul is communicating and explaining that not all Israel is of Israel. Just like not all the children of Abraham were counted for the SEED (promises of the Messiah) Being Israel is by faith and not by works just like how Jacob was chosen for the SEED over Esau before doing anything good or evil. Being Israel is by whatever means God decides. If it’s by faith and not of works then that’s how it is. God will have mercy on whom ever He will have mercy, just like God was merciful to the Israelites in their rebellion and gave judgement to Edom for their wicked deeds. Being part of Israel is for anyone who believes which is why God hardened the Jews that had rejected Him. Through their hardening salvation has come to the Gentiles, just like God has hardened Pharaoh so that His power would be known throughout the nations. God can take the nation of Israel and make two lumps out of it. One for honourable use and the other for dishonour. He’s like the potter spoken of elsewhere in the scriptures..... Jer 18: 6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. 7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. 2Tim 2: 20 ¶ But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. If God wants to take one part of the nation of Israel because of faith and reject those who are trying to work for it then who are you oh man to reply against God. What if God was merciful to the Old Testament Israelites when they deserved destruction (vessels of wrath). It’s because the promised SEED would come through them so that He could have mercy on us Jews who believed. And not only is Jews but also the Gentiles. Not all Israel is of Israel. That’s the point. He makes it very clear what makes Israel, israel. ...... Rom 9: 30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; It’s by faith. Not by works. That’s who Israel is. It’s by whatever means and reason God decides. God bless

[@Chirhopher]

Grace, Peace, and LOVE in The HOLY KING YHWH YESHUA. i appreciate you saying that That "Hated" Cannot mean loved less, which is quite true there, but i have heard my own old Pastor say that for That Text, with an "often in the BIBLE..." . And if We read it and are suprised that GOD Hates instead of GOD LOVES, We have a very distorted .. well, Sinful view of sin; the utter sinfulness of sin, completely disgusting. If sin were a physical entity, those that are slaves to it would still love it, however Everyone [both Regenerate and non] would see how utterly disgusting it is. Even Isaiah's fairly vivid picture/statement still fell short. But, so often i habe people givinf the objections that GOD Anticipayes through Paul. If they just kept reading, i guess prayerfully reading (exegeting n proper hermenuetics) they would see it.

[@evanu6579]

ChîRhôpher Lazarus Piper doesn't know what he's talking about..... Gen 29;30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. 31 ¶ And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren. God didn't hate Esau...... Deu 23:7 ¶ Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land. Deu 2:5 Meddle not with them; for I will not give you of their land, no, not so much as a foot breadth; because I have given mount Seir unto Esau for a possession. Deu 2:12 The Horims also dwelt in Seir beforetime; but the children of Esau succeeded them, when they had destroyed them from before them, and dwelt in their stead; as Israel did unto the land of his possession, which the LORD gave unto them. Romans 9 is referring to Malachi 1: 2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. 4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever. And why did God destroy Edom?..... Eze 35:15 As thou didst rejoice at the inheritance of the house of Israel, because it was desolate, so will I do unto thee: thou shalt be desolate, O mount Seir, and all Idumea, even all of it: and they shall know that I am the LORD. He loved Israel above Edom.

[@jonathanmalangis2323]

@@evanu6579 Could you please explain how verse 12 to 13 connects with verses 6 to 11 especially "that the purpose of God according to election might stand"

[@evanu6579]

@@jonathanmalangis2323 Sure. First it’s important to note that Paul is talking to Jews who know their bible and are familiar with everything that Paul is saying..... Rom 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? Rom 8:23 & 9:24 also points to the fact that Paul is speaking to the Jews at Rome. From verse 2:17 till now, he’s mostly been correcting their view on the law and this falls in line with that. It’s important also to note the difference between bringing forth the promised Messiah and receiving the promised Messiah. Paul is explaining how that the Word of God has come into effect. In other words, the promises have been fulfilled. The Messiah has come to give what was promised to Abraham. Now Paul is going to use the promises made to Abraham as an example of how God has been consistent in how he works. So in the new covenant through Jesus, you’re not saved through works and you’re not saved just because you’re a descendant of Israel. That’s what he’s going to highlight from the promises made to Abraham. Rom 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 👉🏻Neither, 👈🏻because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That word “neither” is the comparative phrase. It like saying “just like”. Important distinction: in bringing forth the promises, wicked, unsaved men brought forth Jesus. In Jesus’ lineage you’ll find men who were not saved. Outside of Israel and Jesus’ lineage, you’ll find godly, saved men like Job and Jethro. All of Niniveh repented and received mercy. So it’s not that salvation was only found through brining forth the Seed as it is now found in the Seed. In this passage we see that though Abraham had another son, his promises would be fulfilled in just one, not both. Being a descendant doesn’t make you an automatic recipient. Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. So not all of Abraham’s children were counted for the seed (Jesus). Being a descendant isn’t an automatic in. Just like not all of Israel (who would receive the promises) are counted as Israel. Rom 9:10 ¶ And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) God elected Jacob over Esau to be the beneficiary for the promised Messiah without works. It’s not about works. Just like the NT is not about works. Paul is showing the Jews how they ought to accept this because it’s how God has worked in the past. Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. This just shows that God did choose Jacob to fulfill the promises through and that he would receive mercy because of it. Not because of works that they did. This is their complaint that Paul is dealing with...... Rom 9:30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; And that’s why he’s bringing up Gods history with their people to show it’s actually consistent for God to choose not based on works and not just because you’re a descendant. Hope that was clear. God bless.

[@jonathanmalangis2323]

@@evanu6579 thank you for your answer pretty much the same as I would explain it but could you clarify which part in this did Piper got wrong? Just started studying this 1 or 2 months ago and it still is hard to teach

[@evanu6579]

@@jonathanmalangis2323 I listened to this 3 years ago. I’m sure as a Calvinist he’s saying that God chose Jacob for salvation and Esau for damnation unconditionally. That God chooses whom ever He wills to save not based on anything at all from man’s perspective. Paul has been saying throughout this letter that it’s about faith and not by works. God chooses based on faith. Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 ¶ But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Do you believe that the one lump made into two vessels is Israel?..... Rom 11:7 ¶ What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 ¶ Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

[@natserog]

thanks John Piper! question...the passage says....if GOD so loved the world ...ya wonder why he did not say GOD loves the "elect" instead of the world ----. thanks!!

[@evanu6579]

natserog It’s because God loves the world. I’m sure you don’t want anyone to perish in hell. That you would rather everyone be saved from eternal hell. God is love. He desires it far more than you or I. We do not love as much as God does.

[@stacybrown5607]

Does this mean that asking too be saved through prayer does not make a difference? I have always been confused over this doctrine. I want to be saved but I feel as if I was not elected. For those who aren't, what is the point of life? If there is no hope it seems as a faster death is ideal.

[@Lozerface79]

Stacy Brown yes. Prayer does make a difference. If youve seen christ in his glory and you want to give your life to him and pursue him and make him your treasure and he leads you into hatred of sin and you spend your life pursuing him, thats part of being the elect. Being elect by god is the only way you can truly ask to be saved. No one by their own will can see their sin and be broken by it and repent and turn to god. So if you desperately thirst for god and pursue him and read his word and see the glory of christ and treasure him above all things, then god has elected you. go and sin no more. does this make sense?

[@joeashbubemma]

//www.gotquestions.org/one-of-the-elect.html "The idea of a person wanting to be saved but being unable to, due to not being one of the elect, is absolutely foreign to the Bible." That would not be 'good' and God is GOOD ALL THE TIME. His holiness would never, NEVER allow someone to come to a genuine belief and not grant them Salvation. His grace is sufficient, TRUST in that. Also Google: RC Sproul, Tim Keller, or Voddie Baucham. It sounds like you have nothing to worry about, but then again, I'm not God! God knows who would harden their hearts against Him and CHOOSE to remain in their sin. NO ONE goes to hell without making that choice. They didn't want God's will in their lives so God will grant them THEIR will in death. It's as fair and loving as it can possibly be.

[@duckkillerpjt]

Stacy Brown if you believe in the saving power of Jesus Christ and trust Him as Lord and Savior and repent from your sin, that means God has allowed you to understand the truth, which makes you one of the elect. But as we saw elsewhere in this series, you have to be exposed to the word of.God to understand. So listen to the word, read the word, and pray, and you might discover you are one of the elect when you understand and accept the power of Jesus Christ as the son of God

[@evanu6579]

Stacy Brown This doctrine that Piper teaches, is not biblical. Calvinism is made up by man. Don't concern yourself with what they teach, but with what the bible says. Once these "teachers" have given you their interpretation, it may be hard to break the presuppositions that they have instilled within you. If there are any passages that seem troublesome to you, let me know and we can discuss them. God bless

[@Aaron637]

Stacy Brown the desire of God is the gift of God. Hope that helps :)

[@chriscagle4226]

Well most people aren’t elect unfortunately

[@bobrusable]

I just don't see how you can say God has picked elected people and not base it on foreknowledge for who will go to hell and who will go to hell. God loves everyone, and doesn't want to send anyone to hell. It's the exact opposite of what scripture says, If someone wants to come to christ, they will be saved if they call upon him.

[@ERiCD707]

Montage Nation the Bible essentially says both of those things. Our job is to rightly divide the Word. Seek to understand how they both can be true, John Piper explains it well so does Tim Conway. God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.

[@evanu6579]

Tera Delanoy Piper is a heretic. He blasphemes the character of God. Don't listen to him.

[@ERiCD707]

Evan U how so?

[@evanu6579]

xwriter100 Piper says that God controls every aspect of every thing. He teaches determinism. If a child is abducted and raped, it is God controlling that man to do so. He makes God out to be a criminal, and man to be the victim. That's not what the bible says..... Psa 81:12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels. Isa 54:15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake Jer 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Jer 23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD. Jer 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings. Hos 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off. Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[@dexsea24]

If you are unable to understand things physically, how can you understand things spiritually.. you are finite, God is infinite.. you will never grasp infinity because you are lost as a finite being

[@kingdomambassador1904]

How about we accept both points free will and predestination.. what is the obsession about being right and what is the obsession about it being either one or the other?!! Focus on entering the race to win the eternal prize and let go of this pointless squabbles, resorting to name calling?! Both! BOTH! It VOULD BE BOTH. If you are right...will you definitely go to Heaven!?!? Same goes for faith vs works... BOOOOOTTTTHHHH!!!!!! These days YOU need to spend your time working on your salvation (another BIG ISSUE once saved ..always saved!! DANGER 🕳) Anyway... fokcus on LEARNING what keeps you ALIGNED and being on that narrow path. THAT is important !!! ...not being right about these matters that is ONLY KNOWN by God for SURE, FOR SURE!!! JUST STOP 🛑 God can do WHATEVER, HOWEVER, EHENEVER HE WANTS!! He uses this kinds of hidden wisdom to muddle the minds of the supposed intellect. Watch yourselves and where you gives your energy!!