YouTube’s Copyright System Needs an Overhaul and Warner Bros. Is a Copyright Bully

[@PleaseNThankYou]

Seems like those entities should be paying YOU for free advertisement.

[@neildaly2635]

The maggot folk of Mordor. They cannot conquer forever. May Elbereth protect you!

[@CounciloftheRings]

Great video! Warner Bros. are indeed huge bullies!

[@benbrown8258]

I will share this. I absolutely feel centered in what you have shared. Hope this can make a Real Difference.

[@OnlineVideoSurfer]

I've always assumed that most of these companies just force people through the process precisely because it's so tedious and risky to appeal it. That way people will self-censor and avoid showing the clips, even if the law and KZbin terms of service is otherwise on your side. After all it's easy for them to claim and costly for you to appeal, and in practice there's no real consequence for them to get it wrong. So from their perspective, why not claim?? As you note as long as the incentives are there for companies to automatically copyright claim anything connected to their work, there's not going to be much of a reason for these companies to stop. So I suspect in the long run KZbin is probably going to have to be the one to punish copyright trolls and copyright abusers. How that happens though I don't know, unless you can really get a groundswell of anger that can impact KZbin's own bottom line.

[@jasonvaughn4886]

Exactly, unless you have a LOT of free time to go through the appeal crap

[@George-zj9rr]

I think its been 8 years since The Nostalgia Critic tried to start a groundswell with the "WTF KZbin?" movement. "Where's the Fair-use?"

[@gandalfolorin-kl3pj]

Melon Geek, I trust your judgement and have posted this video to my Facebook. Let's hope enough people spread this around. Keep up the good work. Namarie.

[@johnsonwole]

I wish I knew the lawyer to bring a class action. The big question for me is who is more culpable, WB or KZbin/alphabet? If you squeeze some compliance out of WB, the underlying mechanism to do this remains. Keep up the fight. I enjoyed listening to your thoughts on this and hope someday your talents will not be squashed like this. I just wanted to hear more Tolkien lore but you got me all fired up! 😅

[@Whyred100]

Preach brother - preach 💪!

[@thomasfranklin7303]

I was about to make a Tolkien channel a year a go just to show artwork every week that is accurate from the description of the books, but this copyright-business and name of channel etc gave my stomach a bad feeling so i decided not to. To bad. All i wanted was to share and now a year later i have so many paintings that only my daughters will ever see. Hopefully this copyright stuff gets better in the future but i would not count on that. Lets just stay on the safe side 🎨😌

[@bintube5269]

I don’t think anything would happen at all if you’re just showing artwork on your channel. Seems like that’s nothing to get stressed over.

[@njdeputter]

Your best thumbnail ever

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

That’s not a high bar 😂

[@johnsonwole]

It seems silly but I watched a comedic reaction video on season 2 of rings of power and he sped up the clips by maybe 1.25x or 1.5x. Also he made them extra short (2-5 seconds of dialogue)then interspersed with his own recap of the conversation with stills for whoever was talking. I’m sure this is a lot more work on the content creator but it seems to be working for him. I love your videos and wish you could break down more videos. I suspect the subcontractors working for WB are graded on how many successful copyright strikes they get. It’s somebody’s annual review depends on this number so it’s probably not personal, just about the money. Of course we will never know their incentive structure but with my experience in other “knowledge industry” metrics, wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

[@istari0]

They are just using their size and power to try and bully their targets, figuring few will fight back. I'd love to see you in a position to take them on.

[@matthijsbouma]

sad these companies try to hurt the best channel on youtube; I like your well thought videos, I feel like I learnt something out of it, especially how to validly make your points clear :)

[@garydmcgath]

Bugs Bunny once said it: "Ain't I a stinker?" I once livestreamed a 1920 silent film with my original accompaniment, and a Netflix series I'd never seen or heard of claimed copyright. I was only threatened with demonetization (no strike) and have no dreams of making money on my tiny audience, so I didn't fight it, but WTF?

[@alberteinstein5421]

Maybe KZbin should add a feature called something like "copyright claim budget": In the beginning you can make x claims per time period. This can be larger (or even unlimited) for larger entities and smaller for small KZbin channels etc. If your claims as a copyright holder get "defeated", your budget shrinks depending on the amount of defeats you suffered. So if you get defeated a lot, you cannot claim anything anymore. Only problem could be, if Warner Bros. then starts to upload clear copyright violations themselves to get their quota up...

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I’d be happy if they at least required the owner to give a substantive response with some kind of reason for maintaining the copyright claim. That way they can’t mindlessly hit a button to say “nah”.

[@factorfantasyweekly]

PREACH. I have a very specific way to ensure 110% that my videos are Fair Use. But they are strict. If you have more than about 5 seconds, you get claimed. 💀 Considering we’re bringing them thousands of eyeballs (that other people PAY to have advertising for), they should be happy to let us use their footage.

[@JOONBUGFILMS]

Warner Bros and Disney are the most notorious when it comes to copyright

[@David.Bowman.]

Sounds like a load of hassle for all concerned. I got a copyright thing once when I uploaded a video trying to do a cover of a Beatles song. But the strike came from someone else who had also done a cover!😂 It was later graciously deemed ‘acceptable’ but I deleted the video anyway. Was just bizarre, my scruffy crap video that literally noone would ever watch but somehow got in their radar.

[@dinmavric5504]

Yeah but they need that money after fumbling for 10 years.

[@littlepotatomaneatstomatoe8160]

damn these companies

[@jaytucker7873]

Last week I watched a livestream premeir for an artists original album. There were 120,000 people watching it and the stream got copyright struck because part of one of the songs had already been uploaded on a different channel. The poor guy holds the copyrights for all these songs and the youtube still smote him for it!

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

KZbin isn’t the one that makes the copyright claims, it’s the copyright owner. Or in this case alleged copyright owner lol.

[@tibux]

Totally un related to this video . Re-watching The Two Towers extended edition, there this is this scene where Denethor commands Boromir to go at Elrond's Council and bring the One Ring to Gondor. He also mentions that's a dangerous mission and that The One will try to corrupt the "hearts of lesser men". A minute before was also saying the "few uses Faramir is good for". But what if was Faramir the one sent to Rivendel to a diplomatic meeting instead of Boromir. Faramir prove his worth by letting Frodo go when he had the chance of taking the Ring. What could have happen? I don't know if this topic has been discussed already, if so please give me a link to the video. Maybe Denethor was so bias against Faramir that he misses his best shot.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

As a matter of fact: LOTR Theory: What If Faramir Went to Rivendell Instead of Boromir? kzbin.info/www/bejne/poqzZHmnhZefkLc

[@coinopanimator]

Warners and universal are to worst culprits they are the reason I post movies reviews anymore.

[@rubybaby7320]

I think this is a delay tactic. Most of these copyright claims are on videos critical of the company (like Warner Bros). If not, why are they doing this? Are they being negligent by not upgrading their search algorithms? Are they colluding to hide certain types of speech? We all know Alphabet and it's subsidiaries have an agenda.

[@exantiuse497]

I find this kind of conspiracy very hard to believe. It is a well-known fact that many companies use algorithms to automatically flag any and all material they have a copyright on, as well as automatically reject the initial appeal because there are no consequences for doing so. On one hand this is understandable because there is a ton of pirated content uploaded on KZbin every day, but it does suck when their algorithm is overzealous and flags even short clips as copyright infringement. In any case, there's a logical explanation as to why they would claim the video which doesn't involve conspiracies, namely greed. On the other hand, if we were to believe that they specifically target videos that are critical or otherwise oppose whatever "agenda" they're pushing, that implies that they hire human beings whose job is to watch through the probably thousands of hours of video the automatic program flags every day, then analyse the videos to see if they're critical of the company or not, so that they can cause the uploader inconvenience but not actually censor the video since it isn't even taken down while the appeal takes place. For a company the size of WB this would probably take hundreds or even thousands of employees whose only job would be to watch youtube videos. It's a ridiculous prospect. There is no conspiracy

[@TitoVespasianus]

Team up with other youtubers for a class action lawsuit.

[@oriondye3212]

Shrug, sue them for harassment. It should be easy to demonstrate that your videos copyright compliance is self evident, which makes their claims malicious. Should have a case at least.

[@enriqueparodiYT1]

I imagine you aren't the only content creator suffering their bullying. Would some organized response help? I see lots of WB-related content (reactions, reviews, opinion) all over YT.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Guess it probably depends on the nature of the response.

[@Enerdhil]

I am pretty sure that many other Tolkien KZbinrs showed way more of the trailer than you did. Maybe they all got a strike or maybe Warner Brothers is picking on you

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

WB is a stupid company. Your trailer reaction is literally giving their production attention. They’ll benefit from your video far more than you ever could.

[@Endme264]

Probably, because he shat on the trailer.. and rightfully so it was garbage

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

@@Endme264 even videos praising or giving neutral opinions get copyright claimed, just recently they copyright claimed the hunt for Gollum fan film got copyright claimed just because of the actual film that was announced having the same title.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

Why wouldn't Warner uphold the strike? Sure they might lose in court but you have to actually take them to court to do it. Most creators can't afford that and for the rare few who do, they can offer to settle at that point. Now the video is supposed to be released while the suit is ongoing but I'm hearing KZbin generally just gives a copyright strike in the meantime instead. Not sure if that is true.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

KZbin isn’t the one who makes copyright claims; otherwise a lot of videos would have claims because of the use of other copyrighted material belonging to others who aren’t so up tight about it. But there’s way less activity from other studios etc. As for why they don’t keep up the claim after the appeal, obviously don’t know for sure but I suspect at that stage they actually have a person with real knowledge look at it, and they know if they’re completely unreasonable they could be slapped either by KZbin or the courts for their bad behavior.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Copyright strike, not claim. I may have heard wrong but I've heard tell that KZbin sometimes gives one of the 3 copyright strikes you're allowed to channels that appeal while it is pending, and even after it gets to what is supposed to be one stage earlier where the copyright claimer is supposed to withdraw or sue.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@professorhaystacks6606 you don’t get a strike unless you dispute then appeal and still “lose” in KZbin’s system, and I’ve never reached that point.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Ah. That's still messed up though as the DMCA process is supposed to go: 1)notice 2) counter-notice 3) and I quote the US copyright office "Following receipt of a compliant counter-notice, the online service provider must restore access to the material after no less than ten and no more than fourteen business days, unless the original notice sender informs the service provider that it has filed a court action against the user." KZbin's system adds additional steps and threatens the livelihood of anyone who counter-notices, as they strike while the court process is ongoing (and allegedly without requiring any proof that such a court action has actually been taken). At best it's bending the DMCA, at worst it's worthy of losing safe-harbor (not that courts seem willing to ever deny safe harbor).

[@nathynorthy6916]

Is it possible that Warner Brothers is deliberately using copyright law to shut down videos that it perceives are critical of its films? So, it's all part of a PR operation rather than protecting its "revenues" from trailers that are freely distributed anyway? Your 'War of the Rohirrim' video was mostly critical of the upcoming film based on the evidence of what it was probably going to be like provided by the trailer.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

They tag stuff as copyright way too fast for that. No one has time to watch the video in the time they do it lol

[@exantiuse497]

The process of flagging the videos is automated, and so is the process of denying the first appeal. There are no consequences for falsely denying the first appeal so they just deny it every time. The system is ridiculously broken

[@ZephyrOptional]

Jess of the Shire flashes a semitransparent text “please don’t demonetize me” stamps across any WB clips or images. I’m sure it’s a pain but might help your issue.

[@enriqueparodiYT1]

Would it make any difference if you would be praising their content?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Not likely.

[@aslkdjfzxcv9779]

your issue is with IP.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

How do you figure?

[@iainmc9859]

Okay, lets take a completely hypothetical example. An automotive company creates an engine which is very successful and makes a lot of money. You then take a piston out of their engine and build your own engine around it and start selling your engine. Ninety five percent of that engine is completely your own idea, except for the piston. The company finds out that you have used the design for their piston ... would they have a copyright claim on it; absolutely. Copyright is designed to protect an investor from uncontracted free use of their intellectual property. I'm not one for standing up for big business ... quite the opposite as I think they have way too much power and are a potential and real threat to any liberal democracy but unless you've got a contractual agreement with the other company you can't use their property ... as inconvenient as that may be. KZbin will not be stepping in to protect you as a creator (largely as they don't know their own backside from their elbow) and I don't see you winning a class action if you are using part of someone else's copyrighted property, especially if you make money out of it.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Well your premise is wrong-you CAN use someone else’s property absent a contract, as long as it fits within “fair use” as defined by the DMCA.

[@iainmc9859]

@@TolkienLorePodcast As you said on the video there are four essential elements (statuary factors) to 'Fair Use', which I'll condense and paraphrase: 1- The Purpose and Character of the Use: where the onus is upon the user to prove that the use is transformative and/or a parody. Whether there is commercial gain to the user may effect claims of 'fair use'. 2- Nature of the Copyrighted Work: If the copyrighted work has been published ( although not exclusively so) and whether the usage is in the public interest. Onus of proof of fair use is upon the user. 3- The Amount and Substantiality of the usage: Whether a large portion of the copyrighted material has been used or key sections of it. 4-Effect on the Copyrighted Materials Value: Has the potential or actual value of the copyrighted material been negatively effected. Onus on the copyright owner to prove this. Acknowledging or attributing the copyright owner in usage may (or may not) also reflect on the judgement of fair usage. Presuming you are not claiming your video is transformative of the original material, a parody or does not involve any monetary gain we can skip statuary factor 1. Presuming you are not claiming it is substantially in the public interest and had not been published we can skip statuary factor 2 I take it that your argument of fair usage is based on statuary factor 3, the small amount of the original film trailer you used or that you did not refer to key elements of the trailer. I suspect you would be correct in terms of length of clip but it could be debated if you didn't refer to key elements of it. Finally the copyright owner would have to substantially prove that your review of the trailer had effected the potential or actual value of the copyrighted material (statuary factor 4), essentially whether your review could effect takings at the box office. If it wasn't a positive review any company solicitor would argue it could. KZbin will, most likely, play the middle path, so it doesn't effect their own business, and accede to any request by the copyright owner to demonetize the video. I can't see a global company wanting to take you through the courts ... unless you have lots of money that they can claim in recompense for any copyright infringement. I honestly wish you good luck, as a general supporter of free speech against a multi-national business, but I'd be tempted to carefully pick my battles on the risk of winning or losing.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@iainmc9859 well I’ve already won, as I’ve won three times before.

[@iainmc9859]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Good luck at winning again, but consider each case on its merits.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@iainmc9859 I’m a lawyer, I always consider each case on its merits. 😉

[@jaredmarkham7300]

@Tolkien Lore You're in the same boat as channels like geeks and gamers. Nerd Roddick, the critical drinker. WDW pro that park place. Derek Anderson the d. A. As well as so many others where you. Care so much about what you cover that you don't give an inch. You call balls and strikes when it's fair. But you won't because of ethics, give them a free pass. They all want just the praise. They can't handle being told that there. Stuff is bad and unwanted.

[@MacBadger]

My brother in Christ, did you just call Nerdrotic, Nerd Roddick?

[@Enerdhil]

Yoystan of Men of the West is not using any video of TRoP. That may be the safest way to cover the series. I have not seen any review videos of the War of the Rohirrim trailer that suggest no one goes and sees it. Many comments are saying don't go and see another film about a warrior girl-boss.

[@enriqueparodiYT1]

First

[@Enerdhil]

🥇🏆