Yugioh's Time Rules Are Awful

Justin explains why time rules were implemented as well as why they are bad in yugioh.
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[@dotv2359]

If it goes to time, the duelists should settle it in the Thunderdome. We will truly learn who "wanted it" more.

[@nicksnovelreviews8733]

BATTLE ROYAL

[@TheStalenin]

I still propose that the match time should be randomised to some degree, while keeping the end-of-match procedure. If we know that the match ends in between 40 and 50 minutes, with the exact time not known prior to time being called, and every ending time is as likely as any other, you can plan that you might run into time, but slowplaying becomes much less safe/predictable, so you need to play properly. It might even make going second into time feasable.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

this is an idea that's both not good but also 100% correct at the same time

[@renaldyhaen]

If Yu-Gi-Oh using Chess Clock: 1. Don't rush your play, enjoy the game. 2. Each time non-turn player want to interrupt, maybe for reading cards or using effect or something else, they should hit their clock first. 3. I know Modern Yu-Gi-Oh player can play in any turn. But with Chess Clock, no matter what and whose turn, if a player want to do something, they must hit their clock first. To make it simple, you rest a while if your time is stop, and you can do action only if your timer active. . I think Chess Clock will make the tournament more "competitive". Not only they have 1 more rule to understand. They must remember and understand a lot of cards before they play to save their time in the game.

[@spicymemes7458]

With how interactive yugioh is, those clocks will be slapped more than hungry hungry hippos. Not to mention people get into fights over slow play, stealing, and rule sharking, now add clock misrepresentation to the infraction list. Its not feasible for paper play. Saying "they just have to hit their clock first" like a buzzer beater is going to get ugly. End of turn instead of End of phase is more than enough in my opinion. Don't need to incorporate more bulk on the table.

[@Raz0rIG]

@@spicymemes7458you solve rule sharking over slow playing with the chess clock. It is more objective measure of who wasted time and is out of time whether that’s spent reading cards, making your opp wait for your response, that’s all on the player who initiates their thinking time or response time. It also replaces nonverbal cues with more objective actions. In a normal duel you simply keep going when it’s understood they don’t have anything and they would stop you if they had something. By clicking the clock, it achieves the same thing only with the click.

[@LorcanaPandemonium]

I think "end of opponent's turn" would be a fair way to do it instead of "end of phase." Should not take that long in most formats (stuff like tear-ishizu mirrors aside) and although not perfect, is a lot more fair. Maybe remove the five minutes they added to the match clock to accommodate this if necessary.

[@ViehTee]

Honestly the stupidest thing is that life points are the deciding factor in an unfinished game. Time can still be end of phase or end of turn or whatever. If neither Player's life points hit 0 then the game does not count for the match decision. Simple as that. No need to play toxic burn or heal cards and way less possibilities to get cheesed.

[@grafzeppelin4069]

That's another thing; if you're playing Swiss, there's no good reason to not allow 1-1 count as a draw.

[@elijahbuscho7715]

that would massively increase the amount of draws, and draws are just really bad for tournaments. You'll run into more situations where the duelists in top cut have to be decided by tie-breakers, and people with good records get "cheated" out of a top placing because they got unlucky and more of their past opponents dropped early than someone with an identical record.

[@ViehTee]

​@@elijahbuscho7715there are some problems with that statement 1st with more draws in the pool it is not that bad to get a draw, because you can still advance. 2nd with this rule you will eliminate draws from games where game 1 was won and game 2 the other player won due to life in time. 3rd it still gives player an incentive to play faster so stalling is in less situations practicable 4th do you think with 3 min on the clock it's fair that either player wins because of a small life point change, a resource that is otherwise almost completely disregarded in the mechanics of the game?

[@elijahbuscho7715]

@@ViehTee points 2 and 3 are solid, but I think there's a misunderstanding with points 1 and 4. Obviously the current time rules suck. Life totals are a super arbitrary way to determine the winner. I've never said otherwise. I'm just trying to point out why your proposed time rules may be found less favorable by tournament organizers. And that reason is the draws. Going into a match, the two players typically should have equal records. If the match ends decisively, it will end with one player having a better record than the other. If every match ends decisively, the number of players tied for first in terms of record gets cut in half every single round. If a given match ends in a draw, the two players will leave with the same record. If every match ends in a draw, all players will end swiss tied for first. The more draws you have, the more people that can share the same record, and this gets bad when it's people on the bubble. With a ton of draws it may end up in a scenario after swiss where 32nd place has the same record as everyone down to 50th. Eighteen people with same record, only one moving into top cut. That'd understandably be very frustrating to be those 18 people, knowing that you only barely didn't top for bullshit reasons. That is something that tournament organizers want to avoid, and a reason why tournament organizers may not like your idea for time rules. Not saying that the current rules are strictly better than yours, but I don't think yours are strictly better than the current ones either. Does that make sense?

[@jurtyt4514]

As someone who loves the Gold Pride/P.U.N.K. deck… game 3 needs to go fast fast fast.

[@leonardopenapineda6488]

Personally if there is about to hit 15 minutes and there is no path to win game 2 I scoop and go game 3

[@natanmoses674]

Then you have Vanquish souls, a deck with in-engine burns that can keep happening during the main phases. Which honestly makes them auto win just about any game 3

[@ProBAgar]

5:35 A banger as always

[@CarbonMalite]

This ruling sounds like a Street Fighter match, where if Ryu theoretically got to spawn in a minute before his opponent while also the timer continues to go down while also also he's both chipping and preparing an advantage state.

[@Jamsessionroom1337]

No dude it's like when supers bring down the clock or if they freeze it. Several games can be made or lost wit these rules implemented. Imagine ryus ultra shin shoryu keeps time like in sf5 vs how the timer freezes in sf6 when u do ur lv3. There's 10 secs left and ur ultra animation finishes in 6 secs vs you get 6 seconds of damage because the timer didn't go down and now u have the life lead and extra time. This is basically the same amount of advantage. You can still be rewarded or punished for potential damage being meddled wit by the clock.

[@BlueStormBuG]

Endless chain of searching, and onboarding monsters. We need more Droll & Lock support.

[@thomasfinotti3845]

This fit perfectly with my last local I am a floow player and in the semi I was parried with another floow player Despite the archetipe and ruling issue the first round was 45 minutes long and I win because of the quick spell x 500 lp We both used the quick in order to win due to the 500 extra lp but he left me 50 seconds x my last turn so I manage to cast the last quick spell Another floow experience IN my last side decklist I sided hummingbird only x time I hope they found a way for the time so we can play also with more slots in side/extra and no taking that only x winning by more lp card

[@thomasfinotti3845]

You can only imagine how much pain in one single round and strangely my oppo didn T want to attack me despite the changes he has

[@KentaKurodani]

.... you doing ok MonkeyFight? That bit at the end certainly caught me offguard

[@windwaker0rules]

I think you overestimate the impact on clocks in store tornaments, mostly because I think the reason big events go so long is more about the statistics that 2 slow players will mirror each other where in a locals it's less likely.

[@NE-BO]

Another idea: Konami needs to stop printing cards with 7 different interactions built in! Like if your turn has 20 different steps to it, requiring a flowchart to follow it's too much. There's a reason why MTG is growing in popularity a lot in the US, most terns have 5-6 steps/interaction at most.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

Well mtg is also losing players at a dramatic rate as well. It's just with all the crossovers they're on boarding players at a record place.

[@Danielss250]

The chess clock idea is honestly perfect if you ask me, I play a LOT of master duel and the clock there works very well. With said clock rule the player that stall will end up losing instead of winning, which is what happens now. As for growing on youtube, yeah you kinda need to sell you soul or just do free copy content, or let's be honest here, probably both. But I can tell you one thing, you and hardleg are my favorite ygo content creators, because you both prioritize quality over quantity, also the content is fairly unique and on that note please don't drop the tier list videos.

[@spicymemes7458]

It works in Master Duel because the software does the work for you. In person events are already awkward as it is, adding a mini-game of clock slapping isn't going to make the experience more appealing

[@SuperSonic3557]

What was that ending section😂😂 I like you the way you are 👍

[@crewie94]

Konami & the idea of "Paying staff". Lol. 🤣🤣 Brilliant video nonetheless, thanks MF. 👍💙

[@JADGERBOMBS]

The time rules wern't designed for gameplay in mind. They were implemented for the benefit of staff.

[@Mugenman88]

Part of Gold Pride Punk is basically accepting you always lose to time, it's a very disheartening part of an otherwise very fun deck.

[@N12015]

The worst part is that games go forever even if not intentional due to how long turns are.

[@alastoralex4828]

I want the clock, I play deck that pay life points to function and it FUCKING SUCKS to lose the time just to play my deck properly.

[@kaueleao9957]

Honestly I don’t care, but you should go to the end of your turn, and not phase

[@nharviala]

Haven't the new time rules also not really helped in bringing down the time of events yet? They still run late with extended rounds, going well past the allotted time. At least, for larger events where there's more people to manage. Smaller game stores (at least the ones near me) refuse the new time rules because frankly, they're insulting and reward toxic plays and players, they stick with turns, even the OTS store near me.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

so it's weird. events are longer because for the most part they're larger. Post-covid and master duel has been great for yugioh. But new time rules have stopped the worst of multi-hour long rounds. but 2 people getting into a ruling dispute with time extensions will make rounds take too much time anyway.

[@sangramos]

I haven’t gone to a local/ regional in years now since I’m only on simulators. Why not just give a mandatory draw? I still think giving one more turn to each player is better but could still eat up time. A preventative measure could also just be them designing less time consuming combos and decks so it wouldn’t need to drag on like that. Playing Rikka on MD is a gamble sometimes if they have interaction (or are playing tear) 🤣

[@NARFNra]

I'm not sure having to manage a chess clock will actually make the game more welcoming to new players than getting cheesed by the current time rules. It works okay on MD because at least the automated system can absolutely 100% enforce it and the shifting between people's priorities can happen really quickly. But I think that in the real game new players end up spending a lot of time just reading their opponent's cards, and if you're wasting your personal clock doing that, it can feel super unpleasant and I could easily see the stress making people just give up. Especially since you have to learn a new set of meta decks every few months, so you can't really hold onto your previous knowledge super well.

[@shecky1176]

I was dedicated to the game up until links dropping and that god awful master rule got implemented, i stepped away from the game for a good long bit after that lol then when i came back, i discovered how broken time was in the game and unfortunately i think it's mostly a game design issue. The game always inclined to go longer than shorter in most cases because of the high level of interaction and back and forth especially in tournament settings. The chess clock is just not built for the adhd players of yugioh, it wouldn't work at all to any level of the imagination for a multitude of reasonings. There's no real way to fix time to work perfectly without the game slowing down and konami actually making changes within the game to limit the combos and make them less complicated and lengthy and go back to the game being centered around strategy rather than a fighting game in the form of a card game that it is now.

[@IngEyn]

I've lost to time once and I'll never attend a tournament of any kind again until it is fixed. It's terrible.

[@aKidNamedBeebee]

Bro ended the video w violence 😂

[@SwungCookie]

I've learned more about yugioh from your videos on the last 5 months than the prior 8 years before that. So thanks for all the effort you put into these videos.

[@PsychoKern]

3rd round going first with Rikka. Sunvine Healer OP 😂

[@emanuelmoreno2272]

I think that a chess clock would be faster bc as a turn player i have to have confirmation from My oponent that there is no responce and i can continue and with a clock i can play at a reasonable pace asuming there is no responce until My oponent clicks the clock Even if it's only to stop me for he to think.

[@rathalos28able]

Yeah but now you have to invent rules on how long your opponent has to click the clock before declaring a thinking period. And with how often priority shifts it will be a nightmare. People already tried a clock and it really doesn't work.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

You just have a button that passes priority to opponent. If they don’t want to respond they leave their finger on their button. I slap down my card press button you have priority until you pass priority back to me. It would work just like master duel but better because you wouldn’t have the game asking you “would you like to activate Maxx C? Would you like to Activate Maxx C?” During your turn

[@mentes1679]

Yes good old times gagaga cowboy in evry decks.

[@beezkneez4491]

Sound like someone lost to Rikka Sunavalon in time one too many times. In all seriousness though as someone who plays the deck, current time rules encourage running the clock down through a number of ways, such as purposely playing out an already lost game in order ti take up time in order to potentially win a game in time without having to play through my opponents board

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

I AM THE RIKKA SUNAVALON PLAYER. I'VE DONE IT TO PEOPLE BEFORE. IT IS UNFUN, TOXIC AND SHOULDN'T BE IN THE GAME.

[@Torpedoman316]

I love playing against purely players who take up 35 minutes of the 45, most of the time spent thinking and talking to themselves. And then when it’s my turn he rushes the fuck out of me cuz he burned himself. Gotta love it

[@Petsinwinter2]

That outro was savage, damn

[@XenosKenosis]

Yep time rule and definitely elo tbh, like new players vs new players etc , not sure about it but I think maybe that would work

[@clownworld3382]

I played Yugioh for years and only 3 times I got into arguments that could have resulted in violence. I'm a pacifist, I try to avoid strife over cardboard but sometimes you gotta stand up for what's right or things won't change. I did punch a dude in the face when he tried to assault my brother tho. All those 3 times some scumbag was tryna abuse time rules and acted disrespectful when confronted. This crap fester a toxic game environement and normalize cheating. It needs to go.

[@Giru]

100% agree with the Chess Clock, specially "Fischer" chess clocks, as they allow increments. This way, it's up to players to tap in when it's their priority or if they need to read a card they are unfamiliar with. With 22 mins and 30 secs per player, you'd have a solid time management, long combos would come with the risk of running out of time, which would be a loss on the current game (or match if it's still game 1). This rewards player knowledge on game and mechanics and puts a risk factor on overextending combos, as well as 100% eliminating slow play. The only issue with this is that there's no way to properly account for a judge call, as the player calling judge would technically be losing X amount of time, which could be abused by a quick player to time out an opponent with an intentional miss-play when they are short on time.missplay

[@babysinclairfan]

Konami has been beginning to crack down on this ever since an event in New York where a guy named Henry ferchau won a regional by using every legal stall in the game then gaining some life using a card in his side deck. Henry was banned and Konami clarified what illegal stalling is. The problem is far from solved but at least we're headed in the right direction .

[@saitougin7210]

Time clocks only really work digitally in online simulators. In real life it doesn't really work, if you make a long combo. You'd have to click the timer after EVERY effect, since your opponent could have a reaction on the hand or so. I'd say, it would be a good compromise to just play UNTIL THE NEXT END OF BATTLE PHASE. This way you get to do full combo and attack for game, if possible. This is, what I think the most fair system for most players in most matches. Because this basically shows, if you can break the board of the opponent. And that typically would decide the game, if one was not in time anyways. This wouldn't be perfect either, but I think is the best realistic compromise of wanting to end it quickly, but in a way nobody really feels cheated.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

You know you wouldn't have to hit the clock until you wanted to disrupt the opponent. It doesn't have to be a hit it literally every move.

[@saitougin7210]

@@MonkeyFightTCG Hm, ok, that's an interesting way of implementing it. That's what I meant with it being easier in the online simulator. There, if you are the non-turn-player and you are thinking about to react to something, then it is your own thinking time. Then the time is running for you. I think it is a very common situation, where after each action of the turn-player you want to have at least a second or so, to just think about, whether you want to react in some way or not. Especially, if you either don't know the deck of the opponent that much (and thus have to read one of their cards) or the stakes are high and it is about everythink and thus you are just a bit nervous and you want to make sure you make the most optimal decision. So, I think that is at least so common, that you would have to hit the clock, each time you just want to think for a second inbetween a very long and complicated combo of the opponent, that you have not seen so often. So, Idon't know, I think realistically, one would have to hit the clock (as the non-turn-player) after almost every action of the turn player. And I don't know, if that is really that good. Also there is this potential unfairness, that combo-players need a lot of time for playing their combos and for thinking, while anti/control-deck players mostly just need time for thinking. So, in the end you might just lose because you were playing a combo deck and thus took more time. See, how this is totally fair in chess, where you don't have combos, but not in YGO? Here the timers would imply that the combo player took more time to think and just loses, when in actuality this might not be the case. Btw, Dzeeff made a video against these timers 4 years ago with a lot of arguments against it: Why Chess Timers Wouldn't Fix Yu-Gi-Oh! (11min) kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5_CqKVji6aVosk Go watch it. It's good.

[@TheGuyWhoIsSitting]

Ever duel that goes to time should go into a last turn situation. Kappa (I know this isn’t twitch)

[@Jyxero]

Awww, an Aroma player... Please tell me that set was Aroma Jasmine and not Aroma Jar Had lost several times due to time-out on MD (Not TCG player thou), mostly cause thinking how to solve x boardstate or what to do next turn... May get annoyed but is my fault for not being faster; the system is fine Until someone makes a REALLY scumbag or cheese play with that Poison of the Old man being set since turn 1, and people goes nuts for it (Like EEV play... ugh), then Konami will sit on their flawless logic than LP matters more than boardstate and the sort

[@spicymemes7458]

At least Master Duel just ends the game if time runs out. Paper play makes you finish the phase and cards that gain life points cheese out wins.

[@grafzeppelin4069]

You still know if time is about to run out in Master Duel, though.

[@spicymemes7458]

@@grafzeppelin4069 master duel also implements the sort of "chess timer" system people have been asking for better there than what it could be in paper play.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Master duel should not auto surrender when your time runs out. It should begin the end phase and give you a 15 second grace period to resolve any mandatory effects.

[@forcommentingpurposesonly2918]

this goes for pretty much all yugioh mechanics tbh. its like konami is tryna warn us not to play this crappy ass game.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Chess timers. Exactly. Duhhhhh The current rules are totally toxic.

[@charziz6693]

I would keep the current time rules but the players have more time before Turn 4 and when time does come you gain 1500 LP for every card on your field and 1000 for cards in your hand.

[@brendalee1215]

Two trap decks going head to head and going into time is painful

[@pickyphysicsstudent201]

One improvement would be keeping the time hidden. At start of each round, Judges use some RNG method of choosing between 35 & 45 minutes. Player's don't know which number was chosen but a clock counting up is shown. Without knowing when exactly time is called, player's won't be as able to cheese wins with burn/heal effects. Cowboying someone at 35 minutes might get you the win but what if the time chosen for the round was 45 minutes? Now you have spent combo pieces doing a tiny bit of burn, which the opponent can easily come back from.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

The problem is that people have watches and could definitely still time through a convo for long enough

[@venturamack]

Jizz jizz

[@Benjamin_w02]

JUST CALL IT A DRAW

[@stephen4006]

Imagine if they settled time by card advantage rather than life points 😂

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

Interesting point, but what do we call card advantage? hand certainly. but what about field, graveyard, and even banish zones. its a neat premise and some games like one piece actually have a system for that, but IMO it would be too unfair to do in yugioh.

[@stephen4006]

@@MonkeyFightTCG I was mostly joking, but yeah it gets semantic because it becomes debatable what’s truly part of an economy. As an aside, a huge pet peeve of mine is when players confuse a long combo for slow play. They’re not at all the same. But maaaan playing against a slow combo player is the worst

[@alpha_neandethal_primarch]

the end was BASED

[@Joolenplus]

Ngl I'm surprised people still play yugioh. It sounds like there's just a shit ton of negatives to that game. At least modern competitive yugioh that is.

[@grafzeppelin4069]

Honestly, people don't. Tournaments are dwindling, and the only people who go to YCSes are the same tiny pool of (mostly sponsored) elite whales. YCS is more like a travelling stunt show than a legitimate tournament. Plenty of game stores are dropping Yugioh for new games, or for more time for the Big Two - Magic has draft, which sells more, and Pokemon brings in all ages and collectors. Running a Yugioh tournament is just a massive headache - Konami's support sucks, attendance is tiny, and the few people who do show up are elitist manchild whales and/or thieves. The game is long since dead. Konami's last chance to save the game was in 2019, with decent SDs, the Mega Tin, lowering the power level of the game, and making the game cheaper - but they relapsed with the January 2020 banlist and 2020's insane card prices, and that was the beginning of the end. It's only stumbling along like a chicken with its head cut off, and I think it's getting real close to falling over.

[@Joolenplus]

​@@grafzeppelin4069yeah I stopped playing years ago and only really follow the game because I like some of the content creators. I realized that they just keep making the same design mistake cards over and over but with different names, themes, and extra text.

[@natanmoses674]

At least there is Goat and Edison format now. Goat is pretty much og anime style with one or 2 summons per turn, and goofy removal cards. Also 1 copy of Pot of Greed and Graceful charity. Edison is a 2010 style format with way smaller combos that don't have tons of negates and hand traps.

[@grafzeppelin4069]

@@natanmoses674 Yeah, but playing old formats is a cope, not an actual solution, and those formats are inherently stale. It's better to just not support the game at all.

[@spicymemes7458]

I enjoy Master Duel for a few games on the go. I also like that it's mostly F2P and has its own format. I don't see a need for in person play unless you're feeling nostalgic.

[@johnmatson5969]

Sell your soul like duel logs or steal content like FARFA, um is that for real? Are you seriously claiming that duel logs has no soul and that farfa is unfair?

[@vollied4865]

This is when I quit competitive yugioh. Missing timing was already an ignorant and toxic mechanic causing way more issues and rulings than the game ever needed. And now time in the round is a joke, they could easily go back to the old format they'd just have to fix the game... oh wait.

[@Junglewarfare]

Wait why did duel logs sell his soul? I thought his channels werejust serving the same slop over and over. Top 10 this top 10 that.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

Dude it would be soul sucking to produce content like that

[@Junglewarfare]

@@MonkeyFightTCG he has ppl do it for him. yea its mediocre content but thats a lot of YT today

[@cliffkrahenbill5971]

Brother burn damage was more popular back in the day in the 2000 -2006 then your on about. 😅 masquerade dragon and red eyes black metal aren’t burn damage. It’s mandatory effect . 2nd you can still win in time if can inflict battle phase.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

I dont think you understood the video?

[@zojirushi1]

Nah that outro was cursed.

[@prairietan]

Time is a valid strategy.