Z-Wave vs ZigBee vs WIFI - Choosing a Standard: Your Smart Home Questions Answered

[@RyanDraga]

"128-bit encryption" doesn't mean a thing if you can leverage a device like a Wi-Fi Pineapple to gain access to the target network. Also, on the Zigbee side, you have AZF (Attify Zigbee Framework) which can enumerate Zigbee devices on a target mesh, then execute replay attacks on a given device within that mesh in order to gain access.

[@AutomateYourLife]

And Z-Wave?

[@RyanDraga]

@@AutomateYourLife To be perfectly honest, I don't have a whole lot of experience with Z-Wave as a protocol. But here's what I DO know based on the little bit of research I've done: 1. Z-Wave S0 keys are pretty easy to decrypt/brute-force. So if you manage to get yourself a half-decent SDR, and attempt to pair an S0 device with an S0 hub, you can snatch the keys out of the air. 2. Some Z-Wave S2 devices are vulnerable to a downgrade attack where you can force them to communicate over S0, therefore allowing you as an attacker to snatch the keys as before and decrypt them.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks so much Ryan! This is definitely something out of my realm so it’s great for me to listen to and start some research into.

[@RyanDraga]

@@AutomateYourLife Not a problem man. IoT Security is a still-burgeoning topic, and there's a lot of really exciting research being done both on the offensive and defensive side. Attacking IoT devices at the protocol level is really just one possible methodology. If you find yourself REALLY wanting to dive deeper into the subject, I highly suggest hitting up the IoT village this year at DEFCON in Las Vegas to pick the brains of the guys and gals who are doing a lot of this research.

[@AutomateYourLife]

That sounds great! Thanks again! I’ll have a look.

[@hackish1]

Useful details. Keep in mind battery life makes wifi connected devices difficult. In addition, zigbee was problematic when using a microwave oven. Finally, when implementing home automation, it might be important to consider resale value. If the system is standalone and doesn't rely on the homeowners wifi network, it doesn't become unwieldy for the future. Hub and controller remains and the system "just works" .

[@AutomateYourLife]

Great input! Thanks!

[@dahur]

20 years ago, I was big into X-10. It had it's issues though putting the signal over the powerline, and things that put noise on the line which would stop your X-10 devices from working. I'm 98 % Z-Wave now, with around 35 devices, and everything works phenomenal. I also use an Amplify mesh point for my other stuff like cameras, Fire Sticks, Alexa.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Sounds like an excellent set up! At this point I'm primarily ZigBee but similarly managed

[@dahur]

@@AutomateYourLife I just installed a Z-Wave open/close sensor on my mailbox across the street. Today was the first time Alexa said "The mailman just dropped off your mail". And sure enough, he did.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Oh I like that! I'm actually going to try that with a different protocol product that should really be interesting.

[@dahur]

@@AutomateYourLife On the WYZE camera forum, several people tried it but had limited success because they had a metal mailbox. And they were mounting them inside the mailbox which could conflict with large packages.I found a large plastic mailbox on Amazon that also had a little yellow notifier flag that pops up when you open the door. There is one that has the yellow notifier flag on top. This one is on the side. I utilized that notifer assembly for my open/close sensor. This put my sensor on the outside of the box, and it works great. FYI.

[@jimreed9098]

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion regarding z-wave: 1) 900mhz is plenty fast enough to transmit all the data you would need from most smart home devices. Your example of transmitting a device's current power usage would be no problem over 900mhz. 2) Wi-fi has higher power consumption than z-wave or zigbee, so for battery powered devices it's an especially poor choice. 3) I've found that wi-fi devices tend to be more expensive than an equivalent z-wave device. Door locks, for instance, typically cost ~$50 more with wi-fi vs z-wave. That $50 will nearly pay for a Smarthings hub and that's just one device. 4) You don't have to pick a single protocol for all your devices. For basic things like switches, sensors, thermostats, etc., z-wave is the best protocol since it was specifically designed for this purpose. But that doesn't stop you from also having wi-fi devices in the same home for things that may require more bandwidth, such as video cameras or other devices we may not have thought of yet.

[@AutomateYourLife]

All good to respectfully disagree Jim! Thanks for the input and I hope other viewers read this. One thing I'd like to point out...I don't believe you have to pick one protocol or standard! :) I currently employ all of these in my smart home, and actually...3 more protocols and standards. :) No 4.

[@32zim32]

I heard about zwave problems with latency. Some people say that simple scenario with move sensor and light switch have unacceptable latency more than 3 seconds. Can't confirm that, because I have only zigbee, where typical latency is 1-1.5 second

[@basdfgwe]

For me, I try to do the following as the order of preference when choosing product: 1. Wired (best) 2. ZigBee (since there's a wider array of devices that are available to me) 3. Zwave (the number of devices are very limited to me, someone else's milage may vary). 4. Wifi (I try not to go for devices like this at all costs, but I have some bulbs that are wifi unfortunately and irrigation device that is wifi). What I'm interested to know in the future is how Bluetooth will penetrate the market. Im hoping that this will provide a very stable connection and available for phones to interact with them.

[@AutomateYourLife]

You’re totally right with the wired statement and people should inherently know that. But might not! As for Bluetooth...I personally don’t have a lot of faith in low power Bluetooth. Sorry!

[@basdfgwe]

Are you referring to the existing specs or the new mesh specs ?

[@basdfgwe]

@@AutomateYourLife I think everyone thinks you should automate your house using wireless devices, which are easy for retro fits, but inherently inconsistent at times due to their wireless nature. Probably wouldn't be an issue for most people. But for me things like motorised blinds, security camera etc... Need to be wired. Most of the new flashy products all tote wireless.

[@jammin4284]

Weird, i find wifi products to be by far more reliable. And way easier to modify (replacing firmware for example).

[@AutomateYourLife]

There is certainly a better upgrade path on anything IP based. At least as far as I’ve seen.

[@InvisiblePinkSoylent]

Perhaps things are different in Canada and the US. In Australia which requires different product versions, there is next to no support for ZigBee devices outside the semi bastardised hue. My advice would be to take a look at the devices you'd like to connect and base your decision on that. None of the other factors mentioned seem that relevant. If you outgrow a protocol then keep those devices and add new ones using whatever the next big thing is. You gush about the Samsung hub a bit without mentioning the many alternatives such as OpenHab. Perhaps now that you're full time on this you will be able to broaden your horizons. Think about providing information rather than recommendations. This is IMHO especially important when the recommendations are so arbitrrary.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hi Invis, thanks for your comments. You're welcome to your opinions of course. I think I'm happy with the video and the recommendations I've put out. No solution, video, or information given will be perfect, nor could I cover all of the potential options out there. In terms of the channel and my videos, I think it's important to help direct people towards what I consider some of the best solutions. Providing information doesn't necessarily help most people get to a solution. Sometimes, you just need to cut to the chase. I'm not saying what you've offered up doesn't have merit, I'm just saying that for most people, a solution like Samsung/Wink will be a bit easier to manage and maintain over some of the more open source options like OpenHab. Let's agree to disagree on this one, but you clearly have some great depth on the subject!

[@andrewneal5089]

No support for zigbee? I am running my whole house from zigbee - Got a house full of Nue light switches, Xiaomi motion sensors, Xiaomi door sensors, Xiaomi temperature sensors, Meross smart sockets which are all running through Home Assistant

[@miggy2002]

I disagree as I have no knowledge on this and I'm currently searching KZbin for recommendations. It's good to watch videos that give an unbiased review of products but it's also important to get people's experiences and preferences. Fellow Aussie here :)

[@just4therecord]

I’m using mostly Zigbee. The devices are tiny in size and batteries can last a couple of years. Z-Wave stuff are more expensive, bigger and draw more current. WiFi I try to stay away from but some devices requires them so no choice. They draw a lot of electricity and therefore needs to be plugged in. If your router or internet is down, you can’t use them. And all of these smart home stuff is still on 2.4Ghz. AX will have nothing to do with smart home stuff. There’s no need for big bandwidth, maybe only for 4k IP cams

[@jammin4284]

For plugs and wall switches, wifi is the way to go. Power isnt an issue as they are wired or plugged in. All of my wifi units use the MQTT protocol so internet isnt required. I do use zigbee for bulbs, as they work offline as well and are dirt cheap.

[@EsotericArctos]

Philips have kept the Hue platform pretty open. Very little is proprietary. There are a few differences between manufacturers, but all hue and a lot of other platforms work fine on generic Zigbee platforms like SmartThings and Home Assistant ZHA because they are still either ZLL, ZHA or Zigbee 3 compliant. I can actually pull more function (temp, light level and motion) from a hue motion sensor in Home Assistant than I can from the hue eco system 🙂 There are many Z-Wave Devices already can give real time power consumption statistics. This type of data is low bandwidth and Z-Wave is fine with it in domestic and small commercial installs 🙂. Obviously if you were heading up to over 300 devices you may have issues, but wired would be best for bigger installs 🙂

[@AutomateYourLife]

So Brendan, are you saying that you’ve connected a Hue lightbulb without a Philips hub to SmartThings and Home Assistant?

[@EsotericArctos]

@@AutomateYourLife definitely. To both Smartthings Hub and to Home Assistant using an EZSP based Zigbee Stick without a Hue Bridge at all. Obviously, like Z-Wave, the devices can only be included on one network at a time, but you wouldn't want that any other way :) You just have to remove the lights from the hue app and then use a hue dimmer to reset the globes. You press the on and off button on the hue dimmer at same time with it virtually touching the globe, the hue globe will flash 3 times, then you can include it directly onto another hub, such as Smartthings or Home Assistant. I use an Elelabs Zigbee Stick and the ZHA Home Assistant component now. I don't use a Hue Bridge at all now as Home Assistant just recently updated the ZHA component to support Dimmers like the Hue one, but from other brands also. It seems Zigbee, although it had been segmebted, with Version 3 is becoming a lot more standardised

[@AutomateYourLife]

Yeahhhhhhh, so while some folks like you or I are going to pull off that kind of stuff, to most people.... :)

[@EsotericArctos]

@@AutomateYourLife true. Zigbee and even Z-Wave are not particularly easy to remove from one network and add to another. If you pull a hue globe off the shelf and never include it on a Hue hub though, then it is simple. Just use the include process without any hoops. I think the problem is not so much difficulty of doing though. it as education. Companies want you stuck in their ecosystems

[@AutomateYourLife]

I agree with ya wholeheartedly. We will get there on the channel :)

[@thunderboltsrock4304]

Zwave devices in general will consume far less power and generally last longer on the same battery compared to wifi which in my opinion is highly desirable for battery powered smart home devices. Many battery smart home devices are designed to conserved power and not be network chatty to conserved power usage and this not require high bandwidth.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Yep, same with Zigbee. If you truly need a battery device, Zigbee or Z-Wave is the way to go

[@thunderboltsrock4304]

I am not expert but my understanding is that Lower frequency devices can have longer talk times and require less power than higher frequency devices e.g zwave battery device will be more efficient and last longer than a zigbee battery device that has the same transmissions

[@AutomateYourLife]

You might not be an expert, but you have a great grasp! So what you’re talking about is transmission power and you’re right, lower carrier frequency is less overall power, and therefore less battery usage.

[@ravnsmarthome2938]

By far the best Smarthome channel I have found so far! Thank you so much for all the work you do!

[@AutomateYourLife]

Oh gosh, thank you Brian! I'm actually working on an update of this video, so please do stay tuned.

[@ravnsmarthome2938]

@@AutomateYourLife Definitely will! I have been using your channel to help train up our guys for our Smarthome business, so thank you and keep up the great work!

[@adiprete5335]

@@AutomateYourLife Do you have any idea when you will be ready with the update ? I 'd like to know your new position on Zigbee . Thanks for your very calm, articulated and complete " exposé " !

[@michaelbehan5507]

Great video. One nitpick though. You kept referring to "wireless" when referring to wifi. All the standards you discussed, Wifi, ZigBee, and Z-Wave, are all "wireless" (plus a whole bunch of other wireless standards out there). Real good video though. I really liked how you presented high level overview of a smart home setup, and I hope you continue to expand on this theme in the future.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Michael! You’re so right too.... I’ll continue down this theme for sure. :)

[@TristynRusselo]

For anyone considering Samsung SmartThings hub.... Dont get me wrong. I love my SmartThings home. I have over 60 connected devices. Hue, zwave bulbs, zwave switches and dimmers, motion sensors, zwave door locks, zwave garage door opener, I even have a zwave relay to turn on my gas fireplace. It all works... most of the time. The problem with SmartThings (ST) is the app... or should i say APPS... there are 2 . SmartThings and SmartThings Classic (ST Classic). The new app does not do many of the tings that the old one does, and has no support for custom device programming. the new app has only 1 or 2 new useful features, so both are needed to do some things. Some people only use the old app. Everything will go well for you for the first month, maybe two, then one day, all of your zwave and zigbee devices will show OFFLINE in the newer app. But all automations still work, google commands still work, and all devices will show working in the classic app. The quickest way to get them back as online in the app is to pull the battery or turn off power, or unscrew the bulb for 10 seconds each, sometimes you need to re-add the device... Location detection by phone/app is HORRIBLE on non-samsung devices and works most of the time with samsung phones... My father's Note 8 has not come home in a month supposedly.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I agree with Tristyn's assessment, except for one small thing: Samsung has never said that we should switch to the new app. In fact, they specifically said wait until we tell you (email correspondence multiple times). I thought it was a bad idea that Samsung deployed it AT ALL, but right now, people should be working within the old application. As for the issues with phone detection...yeah. Many folks have issues with that. I haven't as of yet.

[@TristynRusselo]

I love my smartthings, but it is not.... "maintenance free". every 1 or 2 months there is some "issue" to resolve. sometimes due to an app update. one time my timezone changed randomly. had to move my home location to a different part of the country, move it back. sometimes thermostat control works with automatons, sometimes not. Its good if you are willing to play with it. if you want someone to set it up and never touch it again.... ermm...

[@AutomateYourLife]

You know what...I’ve had so few things to do or fix with SmartThings. Just lucky I guess!

[@houstonshomeautomation3524]

Brian , this video was a masterpiece!!!

[@AutomateYourLife]

Oh gosh thanks! It's old and I need to redo it!

[@rolling_marbles]

So couple of things. Your explanation of 802.11ax was flawed, but not a big deal. Like it’s already been pointed out, 99% of the smart devices are 802.11b/g and for good reason. 2.4Ghz has distance and interference advantages over the higher 5Ghz. Plus, it isn’t feasible in most cases to have multiple antennas in your IoT device so you can’t utilize MIMO. Adding the extra BoM cost of 5Ghz when it can’t be used makes no sense. Also, 802.11g has less problems stemming from chatty devices, which your IoT generally is. While not a lot of bandwidth, the beacon probes and general AUTH acks are crazy and can overwhelm the processor of an access point. This is where mesh comes in, but there’s penalties in mesh as well. Lastly, ZigBee and 802.11g don’t generally interfere because ZigBee can use up to channel 16 of the 2.4Ghz spectrum, where’s as 802.11g is limited to channel 11, and in the case of 802.11n with 40Mhz wide channels then channel 12. ZigBee can use the lower channels if there’s clear airtime but generally I see ZigBee staying in the higher channels. Then it’s a transmitted power problem of 802.11g being able to outgain ZigBee because ZigBee is limited to a lower EIRP than 802.11g is so you can get jamming in that manner.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Jody - Sounds like you know a ton! Thanks for your comment and for sharing your knowledge. My assumption is that 802.11ax is not purely 5 GHz, or at least can operate back in the 2.4 GHz band. Regardless, the MIMO capability will only matter for certain IoT devices. I see some of our more complex hubs utilizing it, and I also see the ability to have the additional streams assisting the connection to multiple devices at the same time. Would you agree with that? As for ZigBee and general WiFi standards, I agree with everything you've said. I certainly wasn't trying to point people away from ZigBee. At least...not yet. :) I'm interested to hear your take on mesh penalties vs a single access point. I'd love to read more from you!

[@rolling_marbles]

Automate Your Life I did forget that unlike 802.11ac, WiFi-5, 802.11ax or WiFi-6 does use both 2.4 and 5.8, but not all channels in each spectrum. In fact the spec calls for using the entire spectrum from 1Ghz to 7Ghz. The MIMO is important for beam forming and the use of multiple special streams for increased throughput, but I think that’s less of a concern for devices with low data transmission. The mesh penalties mainly stem from having to use part of the available bandwidth for backhaul between each node. On older and cheaper equipment this can be as high as 1/2 per hop. On newer equipment, multiple radios can be used or even designating one radio for backhaul and one for clients. Things like Eros and the Google mesh use some very advanced time slicing, which can help with not needing dedicated backhaul, can be like having token ring in your home. Basically the overarching point is there’s often large downsides to some of this nifty tech that isn’t apparent or understood, or just too damned confusing. I do believe that we could see IoT devices operate in the 802.11ac or 802.11ax space, but not fully take advantage of what’s capable. The biggest thing in my mind is that some of these advances include increase in QAM and introducing algorithms that for IoT is often not practical due to the large processing power required to take advantage of it vice the little benefit from it. I personally see ZigBee reigning supreme with a 802.11ax hub to move the data, but there’s some stuff coming for ZigBee to increase the range. Also, with ZigBee every device is also a mesh node and can act as a repeater, so each device acts as a range extender. I don’t want to detract from your intent to educate, definitely need that in the crazy and complex world of IoT.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey this is great stuff Jody and I appreciate you taking the time to explain your thoughts. I don’t think this takes away, I think it only adds. :) Stay tuned, I have an ace in the hole for this conversation that I’ll be releasing in about a month. It’ll explain lots!

[@nprado664]

Your video recording, explanation, calm and safe to explain about these systems are so good that I am watching and practicing english lessons at same time that I am improving my knowledge about automation. Thanks from Brasil.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Great to hear! Thanks from Canada!

[@ForbiddenUser403]

The problem im finding with WIFI devices is.. Every single different device, by every single different manufacturer REQUIRES you to download THEIR individual mobile app in order to associate it with your wireless network. I've not any of these devices that has it's own built-in web-configuration wizard that allows you to configure it without downloading and installing an app. What that says to me is.. These devices are going to become totally useless if that company either at some point goes out of business, or for some reason decides to drop support from their app, or drop the app altogether regardless if the device that you own, that you paid for, still works perfectly fine. I think more awareness needs to be brought to this issue, and begin blacklisting products that don't use open standards and forces you into their particular ecosystem, which they can totally kill at at any time they wish leaving you with nothing but a bunch of useless paperweight "smart" devices.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying necessarily, but the problem is WiFI and the way it is as a standard. Thread and ZigBee can have the same exact problem because they don’t define an application layer. It’s a protocol problem, not a manufacturer problem, as there is no “device type” set up for WiFi.

[@LaurentDebackerBE]

Thank you for the good work. What really impressed me with Z-Wave is how plug-and-play the system is, after I add a device to my Z-Wave dongle, Home Assistant automatically knows what kind of device it is, all its features, and all configuration parameters, with explanation (it's based on Open ZWave which has 1066 supported devices out of the box). I was wondering if ZigBee has something similar? I'm also worried that WiFi devices may be less plug-and-play. Are there TCP or UDP protocols being supported to auto-discover devices on WiFi? While Nest devices are of very high quality, the way they integrate with smart home hubs is very bad, because all your data is pushed to the internet before coming back in your hub home. At least, Z-Wave is all local, without involving the internet. About the data rate of Z-Wave, max packet size is 64 bytes, and I see my devices transmitting at 40 kbps, that would be large packets per second. I read that ZigBee can go up to 6x faster. Finally, one big advantage of Z-Wave and ZigBee using groups is that a switch can command several devices without passing through the hub. With WiFi, you would need a standard to emerge to do similar things, until then, you need a hub to translate all the proprietary protocols used by each smart WiFi device. The worst is that many WiFi devices are even using undocumented protocols. They day that they stop offering their software, you're out of luck. Z-Wave and ZigBee have enough open software to keep running.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Laurent - Great comment. You know your stuff and it's obvious you've been paying attention! ZigBee has a number of profiles that they're using to segment the industry first, and then yes, they do have some device types that are being used to create those automatic parameters and functions like you say. ZigBee and Z-Wave hold a ton of similarities...many more than the differences they have that's for sure. As for WiFi, what I'll say is that it has its place. Do I think you want 30 door and window sensors on WiFi? No. I think every camera better be though, or you'll kill your ZigBee or Z-Wave network very quickly (or at least need to set up a separate mesh). I also think that there will be a place for certain devices to be WiFi and that's what I'm pushing towards more in the video. As for Nest, have a look at my latest video on the protocol called Thread and I think you'll understand the path there. WiFi is just the beginning for them and what they're doing and I think it's extremely ingenious. Here's that video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fX2Wga2uqs58htE

[@AutomateYourLife]

Oh and Auto-Discover on WiFi? No. Each and every device I've set up requires it to be set up through the 1. Connect to device WiFi, 2. Put in credentials, 3. Have the app do some work and reconnect. Again, I don't believe this is the plan moving forward and I think WiFi devices have a path to a much better set up and usage. :) I'll explain as I go, though! It's hard to in just one video.

[@nandrews10000]

Thanks for a very detailed, well presented, excellent discussion of the topic!

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Nigel! This is a complex topic, so I’m glad it helps!

[@TristynRusselo]

For wireless AX standards to be effective, both the router and the wireless device need to support AX, so the router and the smart bulb both need to be AX. here is the problem.... most smart home devices sold TODAY, are using old wireless B, and G wifi chips. bareley any wifi smart devices use N, i have yet to see one use AC... maybe google hub or lenovo display do but... expecting smart devices to be AX ?? someday yes... but they will be expensive, few and far between.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Tristyn - It's good to see that you care about this topic. I'm going to push back though! Always good to have a dialog on this stuff. By no means was I suggesting that we're going to need 1000 devices on Wifi speaking 802.11ax. What this is intended to do is give you a guide forward. ZigBee and Z-Wave are both great standards and they have a lot of merits. My point is that Wifi has come so far in one standard adjustment that 2-3 years from now, the Wifi products are going to be ready for where we're headed. Try and remember, Wireless B routers were $250 apiece 20 years ago. Now they put those chips, as you put it, in light bulbs for under $10 CDN. It also took only 2-3 years for 802.11B to be replaced by G and for the cost of those B products to go down to around $50-$100. It won't necessarily follow the same pattern exactly, but I wonder why you're so sure that the price would stay so high with an AX device vs every other wireless standard that's come before it? Finally, I'm also not suggesting that people drop everything and switch all of their smart home products to Wifi. In fact, I said the opposite. I recommended hubs (and I know you don't like Samsung) that contain Z-Wave and ZigBee because it's important for people to be able to still have devices today that work...today. What I did say was that the 10-20 devices that are high bandwidth and high usage could likely be moved to Wifi, and over time the impact of those devices would come down on the overall network. That would still be true, even if just the router was replaced to an AX standard. The reason for that is, as more AX devices enter the home, those devices would sit on channels and streams (with those larger packet sizes), and be less impactful to the traffic of non-AX devices. Anyways, hope that makes sense. I think you caught a different message than I was sending.

[@TristynRusselo]

@@AutomateYourLife - I'm sure you knew that, but was providing the info for others. Some people may think if they upgrade the router, all devices get the ax features upgrade.

[@AutomateYourLife]

You’re right about that for sure. These videos...they’re tough to give the whole story.

[@bobriemersma]

Tons of smart devices use an ESP8266. These are limited to 2.4GHz but support 802.11 b/g/n. Considering how cheap these WiFi microcontrollers are and how powerful they are for the price it is difficult for anything else to compete right now.

[@EsotericArctos]

@@bobriemersma I think, if you are using EsP8266 or ESP32 devices, getting a second WiFi Access Point dedicated to those devices would be the way to go. Most people getting those sort of devices in large numbers are 'Makers' :)

[@andreamitchell4758]

i am using zigbee , zwave , wifi and 433mhz RF , honestly the 433mhz is the most reliable ( broadlink RM pro) , too bad Android is not very reliable all because i use a bridge app with it that runs on android ,

[@100Ahmed]

I'm using Hassio.io on a raspberry pi to send the commands to the broadlink and it is working perfectly and it has Alexa and google home support

[@gizmohawaii]

Thanks, great informative video! I kind of wish I stumbled on and scene a video like this in the beginning when I first started home automation. I never heard of z-Wave until about 4 months ago from my neighbor. Started home automation about a year ago with my first Amazon Alexa echo Dot. I'm presently running a GB router dual band 2.4/5Ghz and about 35 smart devices. With that I experience connection problems so I purchase a range extender which till today solved the problem.

[@AutomateYourLife]

You can definitely manage this way for now. As you go forward, you'll probably want to look at at Zigbee or Z-Wave hub (or both as I suggested) just to help you as you add more devices!

[@ethanpoole3443]

You may wish to investigate how large of a DHCP pool your router or firewall (whichever is managing local DHCP assignments if they are different devices) is configured to support. Many of the consumer grade devices tend to support only a limited number of dynamically assignable IPs and many only support a /24 subnet (or a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0, or smaller - smaller would be a value greater than 0 in that fourth position). If you run out of IP addresses, or even start to run too low, you’ll run into problems where either the DHCP request for another IP address will be declined to a device or, alternatively, issuing a new lease to the next device requires expiring an older lease that was previously assigned to another device. In either case it will look like random devices on your network, potentially including your computers as well, simply vanishing from the network and then some time later they may reappear while something else disappears. Most consumer WiFi access points, routers, and firewalls (whether as distinct devices or all-in-one) are intentionally designed NOT to allow very many devices on your home or small business (SOHO) network if they require IP addresses as they do not want the inexpensive consumer oriented networking gear to find its way into the enterprise networking gear markets - the consumer devices may be limited to as few as 30 IPs on the low end to as many as 254, but many will not support more than that and even those that can support 254 may only be configured to support a much smaller pool out of the box and may require manual configuration to expand the pool size. That limited pool size for any device that requires an IP address really limits how many WiFi and wired Ethernet devices may exist on your home network which is something to consider when choosing WiFi, Zigbee, or Z-Wave or BlueTooth devices - if we move to IPv6 then hopefully those pool sizes might expand, but then they may not wine the manufacturers do not want business customers buying the cheaper consumer grade gear.

[@ethanpoole3443]

Carrier Wave frequency has nothing whatsoever to do with the speed of the signal, it is only a reference as to what frequency the carrier is located at (or where it would be were a carrier to be present as there is not always a carrier since it is wasted power and may be suppressed). When you tune your AM radio dial to 1450AM then that is your carrier frequency as the carrier is located at that frequency and the amplitude modulated audio exists in the sidebands on either side of that carrier. But all RF frequencies operate at the same speed of 99.99% the speed of light insofar as the actual signal is concerned. By comparison, the bandwidth, symbol rate, and modulation scheme will determine how quickly you may transmit data at any given frequency, but the speed of the actual radio signal is always the speed of light (in this case, through a medium that happens to be air). So you can transmit a given volume of data just as quickly at 1MHz as you could at 1GHz *if* the modulation scheme, bandwidth, and symbol rates are kept identical - however, it is often easier to license greater bandwidth at higher frequencies than at lower frequencies by virtue of the fact that 1MHz of bandwidth at 1MHz would be to own most everything at that end of the dial while at 1GHz it would merely span from 1.000-1.001GHz, but, still, if the bandwidth, modulation scheme and symbol rates remain the same then a given volume of data will transmit in the exact same time at both frequencies (barring any interference). That said, the volume of data actually being exchanged by any of these protocols for the purpose of controlling appliances and other IoT devices, in terms of their packet size, is so small that speed is really not the issue so much as ensuring secure and reliable communications and, in the case of battery powered devices, the need to also greatly conserve energy. I just wanted to correct the misconception that frequency has any direct relationship on how fast a signal travels or even, necessarily, how fast a given volume of data can be transmitted since that comes down to the bandwidth, modulation scheme, and symbol rate.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Ethan - You’re absolutely right. :)

[@AutomateYourLife]

Here’s the challenge I see for some of these protocols: they’re not setup to exchange at 500x or 5000x the amount of data. Yep, right now they’re handling everything just fine. That won’t necessarily be the case without more streams and higher bandwidth being available per connection. Right now data is small. It’s the future I’m looking at, and if you have a few HD cameras streaming on your wifi, that’s where it hits the most today.

[@itsJoshW]

Um. A better idea for security: Use traditional 902.11 Wifi. Obtain a second wireless router, specific on the 5ghz band (completely different router) and hide the SSID. Be sure to name it something you may remember (For example: Josh Smart). Be sure to put a complex encryption key on this (Write it down, important so you don't have an issue with getting into it. Usually in IT, you save 3 different kinds of copies of the passwords). By 'complex', I don't mean length -- I mean specifically: Uppercase, Lowercase, Special Character, and a number within a not-so-normal pattern or order. Why? It's a hidden SSID. In order to even know the router it's on, you have to know the SSID. Keeping it away from your normal router (hence, separate router) will allow you to remain 'hidden' from any other networks. Lastly, it's a pretty simple method to setup and future proof. I highly doubt the other variations will last the test of time with modern technology.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Well I can’t argue that it’d be secure! Complex though.

[@itsJoshW]

@@AutomateYourLife It would be secure. What this effectively does is move your 'smart devices' to their own designated internal vlans and networks, while accessing outside network, and keeping the broadcast of the (now designated/different internal) vlan/network SSID hidden. Thus: Secure. Complex would be the encryption keys, which simply needs to have a complexity, incase someone can obtain the get the internal router/modem IPs (presume you're smart and move away from a tradition 192.168 subnet), you then know in order to get in, you would need to REALLY know 'how' to even access to smart devices.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I totally agree. It’s a great way to setup a basic vlan. Totally agree Josh!

[@marklewiscreations]

I’m building a new house. Will be having 38 lights, 6 security cameras and 4 TVs, what option should I choose? Was considering going IP with cameras and cat 6 to TVs

[@marklewiscreations]

Plus 2 mobile devices, 5 blinds, washer & dryer, plus audio

[@AutomateYourLife]

Those seem like good choices. It never hurts to wire a few things to keep the higher bandwidth devices off the wireless transmission.

[@bishakhdutta8427]

why is this content like this free, not that I am complaining

[@AutomateYourLife]

Because that's what we do here!

[@brucehobbs9140]

Great video but a not so great conclusions. "1. People who own Z-Wave systems should begin the transition away." There is really no good reason to do this. As mentioned many controllers can now handle all three protocols so why choose one in favour of the other. ZWave devices are typically more expensive than Zigbee but it is very reliable and there are many Hpme Automation devices that are not available in Zigbee or Wifi but are available in Zwave. Alarm system integration is one of the most important examples . Any really useful and comprehensive H.A .. implementation needs Zwave to work well. Zwave is supported by many large manufactures and its products will be around and working for many years yet. 2. " People just starting should do the same in terms of buying a Samsung SmartThings, Wink Hub 2, or an Echo Plus" Although the video is very comprehensive no H.A discussion can be complete without mentioning that Smartthings Wink and Echo either do not work or work in a very limited way without the Internet. It is a matter of personal preference but I would not consider a system that did not work if my Internet went down or is dependant on a sole cloud provider. As H.A. gets more and more integrated into the home it becomes critical infrastructure and resilience, redundancy and reliability should be key purchasing considerations. I use a Vera Plus which runs everything without the cloud. People also have success with Hubitat and Home Assistant and others. And one more suggestion for a future topic would be IR integration into the H.A system. This is very key to a comprehensive system. I use Broadlink RM which is cheap and works well but unfortunately cloud dependant. However I do not consider this a mission critical component so I can live with it. Thant for the video I think you did a fine job of explaining the various protocols.

[@AutomateYourLife]

To each their own Bruce, but thanks for your perspective. I (of course) have to pick and choose what I talk about in each video. That doesn't mean I won't address what you've said in future videos, but I do stand behind my opinions and I'll explain why in future videos! Again, thanks!

[@andrewjohn5393]

Absolutely Loved your response👍As a System Integrator you’ve hit the nail right on its head. Have u tested HUBITAT?? Cheers Aj

[@brucehobbs9140]

@@andrewjohn5393 No, not yet but it is high on my list of projects. I have been playing a lot with Smartthings and I love webcore. I understand that webcore pistons will run locally on Hubitat. So, I am hopeful that Hubitat achieves that best of both worlds ie runs everything locally and has a powerful and easy to use programming interface.

[@jozefgasparovic5859]

great all in one hub is athom homey. it have zigbee, z-wave, RF 868, 433, bluetooth, ir and looks great 😁

[@AutomateYourLife]

Yeah absolutely! I know a lot of people love their Homey hubs! Great integration with lots too

[@aidenmiddleton]

This is a really useful video, Thank You!

[@AutomateYourLife]

Glad it helped Aiden! It’s intended to really help people sort through the noise...cause wow is there a lot now!

[@aidenmiddleton]

There definitely is a lot of stuff and different platforms out there now. Looking forward to the longer, more in-depth videos in the future.

[@sirexilon]

Brian, a couple of things. 1. the ax system means BOTH WiFi router and the bulb being 802 ax if one is not it will use the protocol of the older device. 2. The Z-wave network is limited by the Hub if your hub is capable, like HomeSeer then you can add multiple Z-wave natworks and have 232 devices pero Z-wave node. And I agree I have Z-wave and WiFi devices all controlled by the same hub. I think selecting the hub is key. One brain to control all. I still wish GHome will enable the Z-wave side that they said is included already. Good video bud as always. Oh and I have a power consumption Z-wave and it works fine.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Walter - I knew this one would trigger ya to respond! I even had those thoughts as we went. You’re absolutely correct on the AX statements. The only thing I’ll say is that the bandwidth is still higher overall on the system if you have an ax router. I was trying to say, the standard is headed to the right place and that people could start heading in that direction. As for the Z-Wave stuff! Yep! You can create multiple networks. The only thing I’ll say there is you’re likely to have interference if you don’t plan the networks right. :) Of course I know you will! Finally, how often is your power consumption monitor reporting in through the network?

[@sirexilon]

@@AutomateYourLife I have to check I think I have it every 30 seconds but is the main House power. I have another Device that measures every 5. An LED strip power unit. I'm not sure u really need more than that. But just in case I agree on the rest. I started my Z-wave years ago WoFi was just a joke on devices and the routers even expensive ones were not near as good. In my case I just don't care for ZigBee, I prefer to mix WiFi and Z-wave. I am not a fan of closed brands or protocols, but a certification also means the product has to have certain standards. I hope they improve. But since my Hub can use either even ZBee I'm not too worried. Thanks for thinking in me hehehe. I'm jump in your patreon, you do a great job mate, and try to be very fair, that's awesome.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks so much Walter! I appreciate your take on things. It’s awesome to be pushed by people like you to be very accurate in these!

[@sirexilon]

@@AutomateYourLife I just saw a post on the HomeSeer forums, Z-Wave is coming up with a New Secure code ungrading the and making it near impossible to break even in insertion mode. I think is called Z-Wave S . Just sharing. I can get link if you need.

[@weeg0880]

I think sometimes it depends on your environment and location. I live in a very rural area and my internet is very limited and I noticed as I added more WiFi devices it was slowing and interfering with my connection on things like my Roku, Smart TV and tablet. I believe that it had to do with the communication with the cloud for status updates of the devices. I wasn't sure if it was really the issue, but as I started to replace the WiFi devices with Zigbee devices the WiFi issues I was experiencing went away. So in my case I've chosen to go as close to 100% Zigbee as I can and it has improved my experience a thousand fold. Not only do my devices react quicker to instructions, but I see fewer connection issues with devices. The couple of WiFi plugs I still have are this only ones that randomly will become unavailable from time to time. Now if you live in the city and have an amazing broadband connection, you probably would never experience this issue, but with only 2 Mb/s upload speeds at best the less I was transmitting device status updates to the cloud the better. I am anxiously awaiting updates to Smartthings over the next couple of years, to see what new features etc. they decide to add.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I would agree with you in general on this, but believe it or not this video happened while I was out in a rural area. :) I'd experienced many things the way you did but was speaking more from the urban experience for sure.

[@61JWolf]

@22:18 "You can utilize all of those different devices that you have. Or, most of them. They're not all going to upgrade seamlessly with SmartThings." Why not? The advantage of Zwave being proprietary is that they are able to maintain strict compliance standards that ensure devices across manufacturers play nice with each other.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Theoretically yes, but that doesn't mean there are custom device handlers' available for all z-wave devices you have on an older hub.

[@BL-mk3lr]

I enjoyed your video. A few things: 1) I’d like to see some consideration as to what platform(s) you use and more emphasis on what the goals are. For example: if you use. Apples Homekit, and you want to use Zigbee or ZWave devices with it, you need to consider that you’ll need something like HomeBridge or home assistant to use them. 2) Calling WiFi “wireless” can be confusing to people since they are all wireless. 3) What about Bluetooth? 4) In my opinion, WiFi devices just don’t have near the reliability of ZWave/Zigbee devices. Especially within HomeKit. Maybe that changes with AX, but personally, I’m ditching my WiFi devices because zwave/Zigbee works soo much better for me.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Brian, nice name by the way :) I agree with all your comments and questions. The whole “wireless” thing was a mistake that bothers me when I go back and watch this video too! I’ll incorporate the rest into some of my next education type videos like this! Bluetooth is on the agenda too, and yep, I need to deal more with platform :)

[@BobBridgesbob]

Just stumbled across this video and it's the best explanation of Z-Wave and Zibee that I've seen so far. You make it very simple to understand! Thanks so much! I do have a question though. I have SmartThings v2 Hub and Philips Hue with several SmartThings plugs, etc. But before I knew the differences, I installed GE Z-Wave smart switches for all my ceiling lights, fans, etc. Probably close to 100 of them. Being that you're recommending Zigbee over Z-Wave, will my Z-Wave switches be obsolete at some point? Just kind of worried that I may have chosen the wrong protocol for long-term sustainability. Appreciate any insight! Thanks again!

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Bob, I don't think you have anything to worry about at all. I love the GE Enbrighten series and Z-Wave is a very prominent protocol with many years ahead of it. I still recommend that series of switches

[@nsxxtreme]

Zwave and Zigbee are better for more than one reason. 1 of those reasons is power consumption. Stick a motion sensor or window sensor on a C123A battery on Wifi and take a guess how long that would last. Much less time at 2.4Ghz and even less at 5.8Ghz. When you have something plugged into an outlet then it doesnt matter as much. But the convenience of a battery lasting 1 to 2 years is HUGE for sensors. Wifi has similar limitation to quantity of device. I want my wifi network setup to use high bandwidth devices.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Good stuff :)

[@michaelgraff6978]

The current technology of mesh WiFi typically uses 5 Ghz to back-haul between the access points I believe. For those of us really old, we remember that WiFi started as WaveLAN and was in the 920 Mhz range. One WiFi (or even 2.4 Ghz camera) will eat your bandwidth really fast. Zigbee isn't going to go away, which seems to be implied in this video. Zigbee is used outside of the home world, is cheap to implement, and can have a very long range. If you want to bump your Zigbee network to an external shed, put two xbee high power units in both locations. Zwave is too proprietary for my tastes. Open standards are the way to go. For instance, I'm building an open source Zigbee hub, since while Smartthings works pretty well, all the non-totally-supported devices run in the cloud, which means I must have an internet connection for some devices to work.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I'm actually more talking about the disappearance of Z-Wave. ZigBee I think has a bit more staying power with low cost, an IP version, self-healing networks, and dual carrier frequency option. Z-Wave's proprietary nature bothers me, just like it bothers you. Thanks Michael! You know your stuff and I'll address some of what you've talked about going forward in my Smart Home Questions series. :)

[@ArtemisKitty]

Technically we've had wifi-mesh-like networks for a while, so don't rule yourself out in case your hardware isn't the absolute newest. Just check to see if it supports WDS. (Wireless Distribution Service) - This is especially true if you, say, have your last 2 routers because you constantly upgrade like a lot of us do, and one or both of them is WDS compatible, either natively or using something like DD-WRT to set up a grid. Just be aware that with ANY "mesh" network, your speed will be limited to the slowest "link" you're passing through at that moment. Source: At the time both MCSE and Novell CNA - I started installing these types of what we'd now call "mesh" style networks for businesses using pro-grade wifi equipment around 20 years ago. (Granted, what we call WDS now is WAY better, but not "new", technically.) That being said... if you're buying now? Get a pre-configured one like the Google Home Mesh or something similar. It's a LOT easier and more stable/reliable. (One bad thing about WDS was that if you used multiple brands or even different models... it would sometimes drop packets just from compression chip speed differences, or some other little annoying detail, requiring more technical configuration to make it reliable and smooth.) Edit: Huh. Should have watched the whole video first. That packet size modification and compression changing there for 802.11ax? That's the same stuff you had to MANUALLY tweak to get a stable WDS mesh. (And test... change again... test... rinse, repeat.) Having that automated would be SO nice...

[@AutomateYourLife]

What a great explanation.

[@NicholasEJones]

This was useful, upto 30 devices and my wifi is falling over, so need to go next step with that now + hub, thank you great vlog

[@engineeringVirtue]

Combine zwave for low bandwidth or battery powered sensor and 802.11n wifi for high bitrate or complex devices. Zigabee only when needed for bulbs. I've avoided 5ghz WiFi.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Matthew - Why have you chosen to avoid 5 GHz?

[@TimmieTennis]

@@AutomateYourLife 5Ghz absorption is high, it has short range, especially through walls. Also has a lot of signal degradation from reflections.

[@ronm6585]

Thanks Brian. I was waiting for this one.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Wait no longer!

[@H_B_R]

i predict that bulb with ax protocol will add $10 the price of current b/g/n wifi bulb. Since its not availaible yet, make me feel even worst.

[@garethjones5068]

My smart home is mainly built around a SmartThings hub, when I buy devices I try wherever possible to buy ZigBee connected ones to help strengthen the mesh, at this point I've got 80+ connected smart home devices but still retain enough WiFi bandwidth to keep my gamer son satisfied with online gaming, my daughter happy with uploading video content to Tik-Tok & me able to watch 4k content on Netflix

[@yuyiboy]

Gareth Jones remember that bulbs don’t act as a repeater (in most instances) that are not always on 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@AutomateYourLife]

Yeah and honestly Gareth, I think you’ve got it figured. You do need a couple of those strategically placed repeaters! I think I’ll actually talk about that in my next segment unless there are some really great questions coming in!

[@AutomateYourLife]

And yep, you’re right!

[@garethjones5068]

@@yuyiboy That's true but bulbs only make up about a quarter of my devices so I've got other stuff that consistently acts as a repeater 👍

[@garethjones5068]

@@AutomateYourLife yeah I think it'd be useful information for your audience 👍

[@VicInCommentSection]

Congratulations on becoming a full-time content creator and having a Patreon set up! As a millennial on the older end of the range, I remember how bad WiFi used to be. In 2018, I upgraded to a mesh network and that has been the most significant WiFi change I've experienced in years. I'm happily using an eero system and haven't had a single issue since it started working. 232 products on Z-Wave seemed like a decent amount until I learned Zigbee can support 65,000! I'm glad you stated 60 to 100 connected products on a mesh WiFi network is doable. I have been meaning to look that up for months and keep forgetting, so thanks for mentioning it. I have approximately 30 devices regularly connected to my mesh WiFi network. Wink has had too many ownership changes for me to have full confidence in them. I'm currently using the newest version of the Samsung SmartThings hub, which is the v3 that was released in 2018. Do you think the next version of Google Home devices will have Zigbee and/or Z-Wave built into them?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Vic - Fancy meeting you here! Thanks for the congratulations. I remember those same Wifi changes over the years. Those early days sure were rough some times, but in general it's been a very stable and useful standard. I think it's always been in good hands and now we're really seeing it hit its stride as it employs other technological advances in wireless communication. I'm very excited. I agree with the take on Wink personally. There's nothing wrong with their device, but I just feel more secure with SmartThings and Samsung's approach to IOT. I think we were all proven right with Samsung's attention to IOT this year at CES. As for the next version of Google Home devices having Zigbee or Z-Wave...it will be interesting. The new (what they're calling) Google Assistant platform is being based on Wifi, so my overall sense is that they're not going backwards. Wifi is technologically ahead now, and we all know Google likes those shiny things (so do I...to be honest). The thing with Google is they really want a clean product line that makes a choice easy for consumers. I can't see a ZigBee/Z-Wave hub being a part of every Google Home Mini 2 either, so it would complicate the line. They're not a hardware company either, so building a ton of devices will cause them to struggle. I think it's also pretty clear they're more focused on their own platform right now than others, and ZigBee and Z-Wave are from others. What I do think is a guarantee is that we're more likely to see a real Wifi upgrade on the next versions. I could see an option to have Google Wifi Mesh on board a more expensive product, and I expect everything to be at least AX capable with maybe even a 4G/5G option. I don't expect a real upgrade of their product line for another year and a half, so that makes all this implementation possible. More experienced folks like you or I have already made most of our choices, so I could see them giving us an upgrade path...but not making it part of their core of products. In any case, I could see it going both ways but my bet is on Wifi and Cellular upgrades.

[@KevinDuvernay]

Congratulations on becoming a full-time content creator Brian

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Kevin :)

[@GilbertMiranda2008]

Thank you for your time doing this video.

[@AutomateYourLife]

My pleasure! Thank you!

[@richlandzee8686]

So I just bought a Lenovo smart speaker and since you didn't mention anything about the google home hub being "dual" zigbee and Wifi capable, is this something that can be updated through software or is it hardware-based? I am an early adopter of home automation and so far I have 1 echo dot, 1 lenovo smart speaker and 4 wifi smart plugs and I think that's only considered 4 connected devices since other 2 are the main "hubs"? I will likely add a few more things as in additional smart plugs up to 10 devices. Will this be ok to just using Wifi? Another question that I have is my wifi plug is compatible with IFTTT. That is something that I'm not familiar with at all but I think it is basically a software program within the device itself? Great content and congrats on your full time job! Btw, you kept saying old, how old are you? Lol.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Ooooh, ok so I think I might have made a mistake in my reference or confused the issue there. The Google Home Hubs are dual wifi capable. That means 2.4 and 5 GHz bands. No upgrade necessary for that dual capability. No Zigbee Hub though. Sorry for the confusion.

[@TristynRusselo]

The google hub does not support zigbee, nor zwave. if you have a zigbee or zwave hub (such as smartThings) you can link the hub to google to control the zigbee devices with voice. While both zigbee and wifi use 2.4ghz signals, they use different communication protocols (they speak different languages), and require different wireless hardware than wifi, and thus, cannot be added with software.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Tristyn - Yeah Richland I hope it's all clear now!

[@Mrtweet81]

"If you are old and remember how Wi-Fi used to work" That’s how 99% of Wi-Fi still works, almost no one uses mesh networks...

[@AutomateYourLife]

I think I was more talking about B/G timelines. Not a good time

[@AutomateYourLife]

Also, I think maybe that statement about mesh made sense 2 years ago, but not today!

[@QuasiBlond]

Excellent! I have purchased the Samsung hub v3. Your show confirms it was a good choice. However, there are times the hub disconnects for no apparent reason. Generally, a bit of fiddling about will fix that Or it will just re-connect on its own. I wonder if that’s to do with protocol interference?

[@AutomateYourLife]

The V3 uses wifi and Zigbee transmitters and receivers. What I’d suggest is to keep the wifi traffic on that hub to a minimum. If you can, keep wifi devices separate. :) Over time, Samsung will improve the handling of those dual systems! It’s a great choice in general for sure!

[@sirexilon]

Check your WiFi usage. Your system will always be as weak as the weakest element on it. And WiFi router has to be a good one.

[@CraigMullins1]

Do you have a list of wifi devices? How much power do they use?

[@AutomateYourLife]

A list of all the wifi devices? I have about 80 on my network right now...so no. That would be a large list.

[@CraigMullins1]

@@AutomateYourLife WiFi pir sensors? how long is battery life on those? One you recommend indoors and one for outdoors?

[@AutomateYourLife]

@@CraigMullins1 I don't recommend wifi sensors, ever!

[@pauloleary9416]

I realize that this video is a year old now. But just now I'm looking into the subject. I see that the FCC (now in 2020) has just released unlicensed use of a new WIFI frequency 6Ghz with 1200mhz of width. So wifi networks will be three channels from now on. 2.4Ghz, 5Ghz, and 6Ghz. Look for routers, phones, and new products with a WIFI 6E designation. ALL of these smart home devices will benefit the most from WIFI 6E because of it's broad bandwidth and fast speed. So most everything he is talking about will need to be replaced as soon as these new product start becoming available from all the manufacturers.

[@AutomateYourLife]

6E!??!?! Never heard of it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5TamHSHn8eqj7M I would say that your assumption is incorrect though that the smart home devices will benefit from 6E. There's no need for sensors to have the fast speeds of WiFi. I'd say you're more looking the opposite way for WiFi smart home devices needing to be replaced...when there's a standard ready (and it's being worked on) that slows down polling time and brings down power usage of remaining online.

[@terryjohnson710]

Great information Brian, well done.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks! 👍 Glad it's helping still!

[@battistuzzijohn]

I have a 180w 24v transformer connected to a remote control led controller with 3Ax3 output . I am running a single white 5meter 115w strip. My controller is no longer working and would like to exchange it with something smart that works with Google mini (preferably without a hub or gateway) any ideas?

[@AutomateYourLife]

So you're controlling 24V at 3A on 3 separate switches? What are you controlling with those 3 lines?

[@AleHernandez]

Awesome info, I like z wave because the low frequency, the rest of wifi on 2.4 and 5ghz, zigbee not so much. thanks

[@AutomateYourLife]

Fair enough sir!

[@stillsandvideo]

Excellent presentation of useful information regarding protocols, etc.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Paul! I will do more like this soon

[@CasperBang]

Great content but it makes it somewhat confusing when you equate "wireless protocols" with WiFi as happens a lot in the video. The entire show is about wireless protocols and ZigBee like Z-wave is just as wireless as WiFi.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Agreed Casper! I'm actually in the midst of updating this video to correct some of the ways I presented it. :)

[@samcorace4257]

Could you provide a recommendation on a single gang light (Dimmable) and fan (Speed Controlled) combo switch that can be controlled by Google Home?

[@MaximMaximov]

I thought ZIGBEE 3.0 has a lot of products, but( !!!) I could not find ANY zigbee3 outlet. Maybe you give advice? I also looking for good ZIGBEE 3.0 switches but (!) did NOT find anything. Today, the best switches and outlets is ZWAVE. I think the leader zwave is Inovelli ! I really want to find switches and sockets with zigbe 3.0 but i need help.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Maxim - Zigbee 3.0 is a little newer and so yeah, products are few and far in between right now. However, you can always filter by Zigbee 3.0 here: www.zigbee.org/zigbee-products-2/#zigbeecertifiedproducts/?view_30_filters=%5B%7B%22field%22%3A%22field_41%22%2C%22operator%22%3A%22is%22%2C%22value%22%3A%2257295d4703f18db6346a6127%22%7D%5D&view_30_page=1

[@jammin4284]

You can buy those cheap wifi outlets (like 4 for $30) and flash tasmota onto them. They work great!

[@RJ55]

Thanks for the video you answewed my question about Zwave, I currently am a Nexia subscriber with a home with over 50 Zwave devices. Is it possible to add the SmartThings hub and run both hubs while transitioning away from Nexia? Can the smart Things hup import from Nexia or will I have add every device and automation and schedule manually? Thanks for any advice.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hi Rauclair - Nexia appears to be a subscription service and sometimes those can be closed off to automatic integration. I also can't find anything with a basic search. I'd chat with Nexia to determine if they've had some other folks ask the same question you have. One thing I do know, is IFTTT could work as a bridge between the two systems. It'd be painful if you have 50 devices, but possible: ifttt.com/connect/nexia/smartthings

[@EsotericArctos]

Just a thought on wifi, you could have a dedicated wifi router for your smart devices. One that is separate from your data network.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Yep! I expect that’s a little advanced for most home owners right now, but I do think we are headed down that path ultimately. We certainly do that in industry.

[@EsotericArctos]

@@AutomateYourLife with that said, I think Zigbee may take over in time. It is so cheap compared to Z-Wave and even some WiFi devices.

[@how2what4]

What it the power connection was the network? Yes I know there are no lights products offering this config but what if it was. Think of how many issues it solves. thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-powerline-networking-kit/

[@yuyiboy]

I like that with my Wink hub I can use SmartThings sensors. When I switched from SmartThings to wink I didn’t have to re-buy everything. Great video!! 😊👍🏽

[@AutomateYourLife]

Such good integration there Gene. Absolutely!

[@yuyiboy]

Automate Your Life not having to re buy everything was great, hopefully in the future everything will work with everything. Just grab and go.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I think you’re on the right path. Eventually everything tech will need to be upgraded, but you’re well protected I think for many years. Worst case I think...new hub.

[@nathanhawk1580]

You didn't talk about power consumption, and the pros/cons for each protocol on battery operated devices.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Nope. Were you looking for some specific info though?

[@Doug2701]

GREAT INFORMATION! Looking forward to future videos

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Douglas! I just recorded my next couple like this. Stay tuned!

[@JMJWill]

Best of luck, forgoing day job, difficult. Patreon is growing and many try that route. I hope you have corporate sponsors.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I don’t! No corporate sponsors! I do have some friends in industry and they help. No sponsorship though. :)

[@JMJWill]

BTW, will Smartthings Hub work with Asus Rt-AC3200 router? It is a Tri-Band two 5, one 2.4. My concern this router is not Mesh capable; two repeating WiFi in one house, if Hub connects with its on SSID. Thank you.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey there - The SmartThings Hub would be just fine with that router. Samsung's not necessarily going to repeat the Wifi. It'll only really do that if you create a direct connection with another Wifi smart home device.

[@JMJWill]

Automate Your Life Many thanks.

[@terkfranks1538]

I have a question for you... about using Google Hub as lightswitch... would that work... can you get it to have a default screen as a light switch?

[@AutomateYourLife]

No, not today!

[@francoisvallee-bernard4741]

Is there difference in term of battery usage between protocol/frequency? Looking for a smart deadbolt and they are driven by 2A battery, will wifi drain battery faster?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hi Francois - Yes, WiFi would drain way quicker. Weeks vs months.

[@francoisvallee-bernard4741]

Thank! Just curiosity, Is it a difference in the transmitter power or due to the added complexity of the wifi protocol? Guessing that wifi will Require constant talking on the network and/or tcp-ip more taxing....

[@AutomateYourLife]

It’s not power! You’ll actually find signal strength higher on the other protocols (vs wifi). It’s how the device isn’t holding a connection unless it is specifically transmitting on ZigBee and Z-Wave.

[@AmandeepSingh-im4wl]

In Home automation if i want to install Smart Touch switches, motion sensors, video doorbell, smart security camera, smart door lock and any other devices, in that case which protocol best suits to my requirement and also I want to control all my devices from mobile APP from anywhere across the globe. Also out of these which protocol devices are more cost effective and last for long time ????

[@AutomateYourLife]

Today, you want to go with ZigBee or Z-Wave, and get a SmartThings or Hubitat hub.

[@AmandeepSingh-im4wl]

@@AutomateYourLife what if I would go for WiFi option. Actually we want to develop these products.

[@tonypolcino1757]

mate very informative... but as you have both systems in your home which is the best interface to integrate them all and have them work seamlessly with Alexa google home and fibaro for example. If you tell Alexa set temp of floor heating to 25 you would like to have this information show on your interface seamlessly ..

[@AutomateYourLife]

SmartThings has been my favorite to connect everything I have together. Between Google, Amazon, and Samsung...there's nothing I can't connect.

[@tonypolcino1757]

Automate Your Life thanks

[@tonypolcino1757]

Only problem with smart things is that it does not have a nice front end to put on iPads or tablets on the wall !! Also having it talk to the thermostats and Alexa to update all UI interfaces is another problem !!

[@AutomateYourLife]

@@tonypolcino1757 You're right. I do think the front end or HMI component will be fixed and very soon.

[@mialgri]

Thank you, but sound is very low.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Alex. I’ll check into it.

[@themagiceye6723]

Great video - I like where your content is heading. This is way more interesting that the latest Google Assistant updates. I'm looking at getting a Hub that supports Z-wave, WiFi and Zigbee, but also think it's crucial that the Hub is able to work without the cloud. Am I right in saying the Smart Things Hub must be cloud connected to control any device type?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Bob, glad this hit the mark for you! I definitely will be doing the Assistant updates videos, so sorry! :) SmartThings does seem to need the Hub to be online and connected. That is an Achilles heel. However, I haven’t fully tested that....

[@themagiceye6723]

@@AutomateYourLife Haha no worries I can understand why you do those sorts of videos, just not for me. But regarding the hubs that require Cloud connections to function, I think that's an area you should look into some more. It's hardly "Smart" after all if you need an internet connection to control a completely self contained ecosystem within your own home. I'd say it's also a major privacy concern, which is another area worth covering. Take SmartThings for instance, there is no technological reason why it needs the cloud, so I can only assume its all about harvesting your usage data for every single connected device all the time. That's just not OK

[@AutomateYourLife]

I like where your head is at. I’ll give it some thought!

[@nchiappetta83]

@@themagiceye6723 I had a Wink Hub 2 for a long time, and that was one of my main issues as well. Sometimes I would hit the light switch and it would take almost 10 seconds to respond since it had to go into the cloud. I switched over to a newer hub 6 months ago called Hubitat. It's fully local so even with the internet out it will still work. And with it not needing to ping the cloud for commands, you get near instant response. It's a little more in-depth then Smartthings or Wink, but I was able to pick it up pretty quickly.

[@themagiceye6723]

@@nchiappetta83 Thanks mate I'll take a look at it.

[@BugraKeskin00]

I love how you explain it smoothly. Will follow you.Thank you

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks so much, and I love the Fry avatar!

[@DisembodiedScreams]

I just got an Echo Plus. Will the Zigbee hub give me basically two ways to control my smart home? One with WiFi and one with Zigbee. If Wifi is down will I be able to use my Plus to control my home? Also, the bulbs and plugs I bought are WiFi based will this effect them being used on the Zigbee system?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Tony - lots of questions! ZigBee Hubs will control even if Wifi or internet is out, but they can only control ZigBee devices. Amazon has a local voice control mode that helps with this, but only in the US right now. The Wifi bulbs you own won’t change how they operate, but they won’t work with the ZigBee component of your new Plus!

[@DisembodiedScreams]

@@AutomateYourLife Thanks. Good to know.

[@bethington81]

We have been using Iris by Lowe's and now they are going away. What should we switch to? Hubitat? SmartThings? or something else?

[@NorthernSutherner]

are there any z wave compatible ceiling fans available?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Not that I know of, but plenty of switches that work with fans! GE Enbrighten is a great series for you to have a look at.

[@darkgtprince]

mesh should only be utilized if you can't run hardwire and set up access points. if you can hardwire, then always hardwire

[@AutomateYourLife]

I don't disagree with that approach, but it's fairly expensive and time consuming.

[@darkgtprince]

@@AutomateYourLife hence the "if you can" part of my comment. it's not always possible or feasible, and that's where wireless mesh would come into play

[@jamesPerez1980]

why does the new SmartThings app have no security feature like the classic app?

[@AutomateYourLife]

It's not finished. We shouldn't be using it yet.

[@jamesPerez1980]

Automate Your Life ok. Well I’ve still been using the classic SmartThings app. I was thinking the new app doesn’t have the security feature because SmartThings partnered with ADT security, and maybe customers only get the security feature if they opt for the security plan.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I don't think that's the point...but I could be wrong! You do make a good point.

[@kevinviviers4862]

My issue is that smart thing will not function without the internet connected. I need to maintain operation of my smart home devices when there is no internet. eg Home assistant

[@AutomateYourLife]

Not try if you buy the right gear. Most hubs nowadays don't require internet. Even SmartThings is mostly local control now. It's just changing over.

[@richardburnett2749]

Can you use a Wi-Fi thermostat off your cell phone data without Wi-Fi at your house

[@AutomateYourLife]

You could...I wouldn't suggest you do that in most cases though. I've seen thermostats do funny things when taken on/off WiFi often

[@marcelnl1979]

One annoying thing why constantly say router... it’s an access point. YES most routers have an WiFi accesspoint build in buy its not the same.

[@InfoSoup]

Also include Bluetooth Mesh, it new and very promising technology which requires no gateway. You can use just your Smartphone.

[@AutomateYourLife]

We will definitely do that in the future. :) Thanks!

[@chodkowski01]

I had my smart bulbs up nice working with Alexa. Comcast shutdown my internet for work and my Alexa along with my lighting no longer worked. My ceiling fans with their remote controls worked fine.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Local control is getting closer for many Wifi based devices. Soon the internet won’t matter.

[@chodkowski01]

Automate Your Life, I got a free Alexa dot when I bought a new router. I set up the amazon dot and I liked it. I then bought a smart bulb and liked that so I then bought a box of smart bulbs and sockets. When my internet went down that’s when I noticed the problem. I’m now redoing my smart home idea with a smart switch. I watched videos and I saw people with the switches were still able to turn the lights on and off manually with the switch if they wanted to without the internet. So I’m trying that now. When I get the switch I will be unplugging the Internet to make sure I can still operate my lights if I lose the internet. Thank you

[@bgirdler]

How does this affect systems like the Phillips hue? If you haven’t entered smart lighting yet would you avoid a hue system and just go all Wi-Fi bulbs?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Ben - No I’m not suggesting everyone run out and get wifi bulbs. In fact, I love my Philips Hue system. However, they make it proprietary and so you just have to know going in that you can’t break out of that system. Right now, the wifi bulbs aren’t great and I’d wait. LIFX is a good brand, but they’re very pricey. For general bulbs around my house, I use Sengled Element. For primary or public spaces, I actually use Philips.

[@AutomateYourLife]

What I maybe didn’t say enough about was that right now, most bulbs should stay Zigbee or Z-wave. The future will turn to wifi.

[@bgirdler]

Good deal. I got a hub on the cheap but haven’t purchased any bulbs yet. Guess it’s safe to do so for a couple more years prolly.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Definitely safe for a few more years yet! By the time those bulbs wear out you’ll be ready to move on.

[@andreascooper4149]

Love your videos mate.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks so much Andreas!

[@theliltank4901]

Is there an alternate with dual bands protocol im really not a fan of samsung just bad customer service with previous devices I switched from wink to ring for my lock on my door i dont really have zigbee devices yet but when i get my echo plus i should be covered for zigbee devices. Have wifi bulbs and wifi switches to control the lights which are all wifi enabled two years later no problem

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hubitat is a great option for sure Sylvain. You'll find a bit more of a struggle in terms of getting all your devices integrated though with that system vs SmartThings.

[@GhitaA]

Can ordinary zigbee gateways communicate via wifi if they are too far out for zigbee signal (>40m) and there are no other zigbee repeaters? Can you extend the zigbee mesh over 40m with just 2 gateways and wifi? I would really appreciate your insight on this. Thank you!

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hi Ghita - Can you give me a few more details here? When you say Gateways, do you mean 2 Zigbee gateways or 2 Wifi Gateways?

[@GhitaA]

@@AutomateYourLife i want to make a smart interphone by using one smart switch + 2 zigbee alarms in the opposite corners of the property (which are also zigbee gateways & have wifi). my gateways are Aqara 180 camera zigbee gateway - they have built in wifi - but not sure if they are wifi gateways too.

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hi Ghita - This is a pretty detailed question actually. The cameras themselves have some details about them that aren't clear. If they are 2 zigbee repeaters (which I can't find details on), and they both have Wifi, the signal should travel the 40 meters you're asking about. The biggest thing is if you have thicker walls to deal with or lots of objects in the way of the transmission path. The less means better! In terms of them being an intercom/phone, it looks like that could work, but I worry about the signal distance you're carrying there and if it can all happen reliably. If you have them, try it out!

[@GhitaA]

@@AutomateYourLife Thanks! They haven't arrived yet. I'm researching in the meanwhile.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I hear ya! It's good to get ready for sure. There's definitely a bit of variability in what's being said with these cameras so I think this one is a test and see!

[@scottshortland3262]

Really good video 👍 thank you 😀

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Scott! Glad it helped!

[@sarasagar76]

I have one question... Zigbee waves travel in one perticular direction or its like WiFi waves in all directions.. I have zigbee hub which is connected to zigbee repeater and this repeater connected to other few end zigbee devices... When i kept zigbbee hub antenaa direction toward zigbee router then it picks signal and then this zigbee repeater antenna face toward other few end zigbee devices... Then communication is perfect and has no problem.... But if i change the one of the hub or repeater antenaa direction to opposite side...then all my end zigbee devices lost its connections.... So my question is.... Zigbee is work in a straight direction ? Or it is like WiFi waves in all directions?

[@AutomateYourLife]

There is a general "direction" for ZigBee transceivers or antennas, so you do have to think about placement and orientation. The SmartThings Hub has a specific direction you generally want to point that hub in for each type of network. I usually just suggest you point the antenna inwards to your home and you keep the hub towards the end of your home. No transceiver is really in all directions, it's just that you may have multiple antennas or multiple transceivers! This is a really detailed question and likely something I'll put into next month's Q&A video like this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmrGlJiIoLZqaLs

[@sarasagar76]

@@AutomateYourLife thanks sir..

[@how2what4]

What are the options for setting up a few thousand lights in a large school? Home setup is easy but it seems impossible to find something as easy to use in the enterprise section....

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hi Brian - Yeah, the scale you're talking about is much more difficult and you need something that's robust and with a backup plan. In industry, we use PLCs and controllers like that, but you don't often times see that implementation in things like schools (at least as far as I know...feel free to correct me). If you're really set on using smart devices in a school, then I'd suggest ZigBee or Z-Wave depending on how far apart the school is. I'd be using the light switches themselves and making those your networked devices and not individual lights (I think they're fluorescent anyways). You could also go really simple and have each room's lighting be driven by a light switch with a secondary motion sensor or occupancy sensor. That might be my suggestion anyways, so you're not maintaining 5-10 ZigBee or Z-Wave networks. It could really become a nightmare quickly if it doesn't always work. I hope this starts you in a couple directions for research. Honestly, with a school and so many impacted...Keep it simple. :) If you need more help, I am available for consulting on things like this. It would obviously be remote, but I'd be happy to work with you in selecting options for this.

[@how2what4]

@@AutomateYourLife in our case a "so called" smart solution has been placed in the school, all lights are beautiful Danish designed LED lights but the software and user experience isn't there. We're using a tech called SCADA. I guess I'm going around trying to solve the issue the wrong way, I think in our case, lights are good, software and networking tech not so hot. I'm really trying to see how I can make a hack that works for the school without it costing an Arm and leg. BTW you can see these gorgeous Danish lights here's kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZu2hZKafraBnrc

[@AutomateYourLife]

Hey Brian - So SCADA is an overarching term for supervisory controls at a high level. Essentially, it's an industry term for bringing everything together. What's the software called? The lights look beautiful, but I'd have to understand more about how they connect and what you have them connected to. It sounds like you'll have an actual PLC or SCADA server that's pulling together all the I/O from these lights. Which is...to be honest, the highest reliability option out there. Software and user interface can always be improved on.

[@how2what4]

@@AutomateYourLife software is Wonderware Indusoft Web Studio PLC is TwinCAT

[@AutomateYourLife]

Ole Wonderware :)

[@TheHellis]

A question. If you have more than one router (one being router and the others slave access points), does that make it possible to have more devices connected?

[@AutomateYourLife]

It does, but the numbers vary depending on the system

[@TheDocHelios]

Great video! Thanks!

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thank you sir!

[@elgancelounge2072]

0:51 It’s not a problem, it’s a ME problem!

[@OfficialNewAndImproved305]

Do I still need the sengled hub if i have a smartthings hub?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Nope

[@TheRealAnthony_real]

Standard WiFi can be repeated as well ... See ubiquiti unifi

[@ArtemisKitty]

Thanks for this, I've tried to explain this a few times to people, but your video is WAY clearer and more understandable. This gives me a great reference to just send a link to, as you do a MUCH better job than me, heh. I can TELL them I use a home-made hybrid zigbee/mi-light/wifi system, but once I try to explain that it all ALSO operates through a custom bridge/wifi interface that I built to make them all work together... their eyes start to glaze over. I generally say "Go with Zigbee because it's cheap, easy to use, has a lot of support, and isn't brand-specific, in case you find something better and cheaper later on." Regarding the range, Zigbee by itself is short-range, sure, BUT if you drop even a 4-6dbi antenna on an NRF24L01 chip, you're looking at 700-1000m easily. Again, depends what you're going with at your house, BUT one single long-range mesh device on either end of the property, and you're good. (I can control the mi-lights etc. and see the zigbee devices at home from the end of the block with no problem, and I live all the way at the end of a cul-de-sac. Yes, even using the stock Mi-Light 2xAAA powered controller.)

[@AutomateYourLife]

Very cool hack there with the antenna and the chip. What a range! I'm glad you found it useful! Make sure they see it so their eyes can glaze over watching me? :D

[@calicj7541]

Any recommendations on how to automate home to become a smart home if you are in an area that offers poor internet service? Currently use cellphone for most of my internet needs do to limited access to internet via home provider.

[@AutomateYourLife]

My first recommendation would be to use Hubitat. Local control, no need for cloud beyond initial setup. (Affiliate link) amzn.to/35sgpni So it's not the easiest to work with, but it's stable and very powerful. You'll be able to get sensors, bulbs, and all kinds of other devices. None of it based on cloud/internet connection. :)

[@michaelkclark6981]

Thanks for the video. Good job 👍🏽

[@AutomateYourLife]

So glad you found it helpful Michael.

[@yokich2]

I recently set up my "smart home" with smart bulbs, smart plugs, smart things hub and Google home mini. My only gripe is that my Google home mini is inconsistent with connecting to my Belkin smart plugs when giving it voice commands. I get the "*device* is not available right now" or "sorry there was an error with the *device*". The plugs are connected to my mini in the Home App, but just don't always work. Any suggestions why?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Well, current Wifi can be getting in the way. I’ve also personally found my Belkin stuff to be a bit unreliable in the first few weeks. I’ll explain - the Wemo devices go through a lot of updates early on and their connectivity during that time is really bad. I have found that they’ve evened out and are much more reliable. However, they’re still not perfect.... So it could be some interference, or it could be updates. It shouldn’t be as often as you’re describing!

[@garethjones5068]

@@AutomateYourLife WeMo bulbs were my first smart bulbs & I had the same experience you're describing when using Alexa to control them, not only that the firmware updates were a pain in the arse to get to install 🤨 I only persevered with the WeMo ones for a few months then upgraded to Phillips Hue & Osram bulbs

[@AutomateYourLife]

An exact replica of my experience! Thanks Gareth. :)

[@luisacevedo324]

Good knowledgeable information there... thanks..

[@AutomateYourLife]

Thanks Luis!

[@Jakepp235]

Do you have a video that compares SmartThings vs homekit?

[@bluethundr]

What about Hubitat? It’s a much better hub than any of the ones you mention.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I don’t know that I agree with that. Just because of local control?

[@whoanelly-]

@@AutomateYourLife local control is everything, what good is automation when dependant on the cloud? Hubitat is great system for the basic user, Im personally a homeseer user.

[@AutomateYourLife]

I have to ask...how much downtime are you experiencing? I really struggle with the downtime being a real concern. I also find almost every device has a good “dummy” mode. What’s the hold up for you?

[@MatHelm]

You lost me at Echo. If the CIA wants to bug my house, let them do it the old fashion way. By tunneling into my cell phone.. Amazon and Google store recordings, Mycroft does not...

[@AutomateYourLife]

Your phone does though. Maybe watch that too Mat.

[@yaynative]

Can I reap the benefits of a wireless AX router even if my smart devices are wireless AC or N?

[@AutomateYourLife]

Sadly no, I don't see any sort of benefit to having an AX router with end devices of that type. As you replace devices with AX versions though, your AC/N stuff should get better (assuming you don't add any other devices).

[@yaynative]

@@AutomateYourLife Thanks. I ask because I haven't heard of any smart home devices that have wireless AX. Seems like they only advertise whether it's Wifi or Zigbee or Bluetooth etc but never what version of WiFi.