No Dinking Allowed! Pickleball Pros vs 5.0s with John Cincola

[@markmaffei1127]

Love this series!!! so much fun! please continue!!

[@rosborne2055]

I think you should do a Pro's vs 5.0's where the Pro's are not allowed to initiate any speedups, ie, all serves are normal, all returns of serves are normal, but pro's must always third-shot drop and get it into the kitchen, from there the pro's can not initiate a speedup, they can only continue a speedup if initiated from the other team (this allows the non-pros to dictate the speed of the game). The only time the pro's can speed up after the third shot is if the opponents pop one up and the pro's can put it away in ONE shot (but if the opponents return the put-away, then pro's lose the point immediately). I would be interested to see how that plays out.

[@dlanceshort]

This would be an awesome variation. Id watch this.

[@rosborne2055]

After watching this again, I think what I'm seeing is that the Pro's are able to dominate mostly through sheer athletic ability and stroke power. They are able to do this to such a degree that the 5.0's are unable to drop any balls short into the kitchen. If a ball were to drop short into the kitchen, I think the only shot the pro's could hit would be a lob, probably a short one, depending on just how short it was in the kitchen, and I think even Pro's would lose most of those points. I think to win a contest like this, the 5.0's would need very soft hands and be able to put balls short into the kitchen. This would force a dink exchange which the Pro's are prohibited from engaging in. It must be incredibly hard to drop balls short into the kitchen off those drives. Over all, a very interesting and entertaining vide. Thanks.

[@pauldorfman701]

You guys that was really fun to watch! Thanks for doing these!

[@joem6010]

That was definitely fun to watch. Keep them coming!

[@vincepetrilli2852]

At 1 to 1 in the third game John has a kitchen violation on his overhead. Tsk Tsk Pros. Although at 10-5 Johns ball looked very much in. The replays on this feed were better than the PPAs lol. Thanks for the video. It was a good watch.

[@giagenae]

I love these! haha so entertaining. Keep these going!

[@kbrown1948]

This was so great and fun to watch! You guys had so much fun. Please keep this going.

[@TheDerd13]

This was fun, more of this!

[@tobinwazzan]

That was fun you guys. Thanks for the show.

[@angelomazzuca6244]

Another awesome video! I had no idea it was so much work to have to bang constantly; Zane and John were panting.

[@nategaluza6700]

Hey Zane, would u consider posting a 3 -5 min video of cuts from your games of perfect drop shots? Seeing the form again and again would help me

[@danskiludvik8358]

I saw the PPA tournament at Pictona in November. First time ever seeing the pros in person, and what impressed me more than anything was their ability to reset hard drives and overheads from the transition zone and make their way to the kitchen. What this match illustrates is that these two very good payers (DUPRs a little over 6 and a tad under 6) don't yet have that skill to the point of being able to neutralize pro level banging. Obviously if they could have been able to do that, and make the pros try to hit speed ups from their shoe tops at the kitchen line instead of having to trade speed-up volleys in the transition zone, they would have had a much better chance to win. Very entertaining match.

[@N14158TL]

The content just keeps getting better and better. Fun pickleball, who knew.... Would have liked to seen you guys play again with the non pro's only driving.

[@Mr.DJones]

Thank you, Zane and others. Fun stuff. Side note: This shows you how important a great, aggressive serve is in the sport, instead of the old loopy serve.

[@igorhiller5596]

love this series

[@stevenls3523]

Great video! Any chance y’all can play the 5.0 normally so we can see the difference?

[@josepinchero]

i'd also like to see a version where the pros can ONLY hit in kitchen (or just soft, no hard shots at all). playing 5.0s or 4.5s? can pros just play soft and win (consistently?)

[@igorhiller5596]

love this idea

[@victorkhong7654]

That was entertaining! Handicapping the pros by not allowing to hit into the kitchen was fun.

[@rdwilander]

Another fun and challenging set of games.....suprised Zane/John never used diagonal topspin lobs to keep the Joes off balance and back on occasion.

[@EA_Ritter]

Man! This is money!!! Love this!!! JC x Zane !!! Let's go!

[@Itsknotvince]

KEEP THESE COMING!!!

[@jfktoo5128]

Awesome! We want more !

[@jjfila9201]

I think it would be extremely interesting to use these same rules except with all 4 players being pros. 1 side has the no-kitchen limitation, and the other side doesn’t. In order to make it a fair competition, you play 2 games each with the limitation swapping between teams each game and add up total points. It would be like a training for what to do against hyper aggressive players. Good stuff!!

[@PickleballJoy]

Surprisingly entertaining. A fun break for us, too! How about where the Pros must lob at least one time ... before they may hit a winner? In every point. (If your serve is an ace ... you lost the point. If your return is a winner, you lost the point.)

[@villbuzeep2043]

you can't have if your serve is an ace you lose the point, because the other team won't even try to hit it back

[@PickleballJoy]

@@villbuzeep2043 Good one. Hadn't considered that. 🤪

[@smbathan]

Next challenge - pros play with old school wooden paddles.

[@derrick031072]

A no dink game! Nice!!!

[@frankie2t0ne]

Another great episode! Keep them coming!! But gawdammit, where’s my invite? I wanna kick your butt Zane! 😂😅

[@edburgler5161]

Great job you guys. W That was a fun set of games to watch.

[@jeremypuckett3382]

Love this game variation. Always looking for stuff like this to try with my students and friends.

[@steve-i1095]

Very interesting from the stand point of where pickleball is headed. The bangers coming from tennis have driving skills that are far superior to players ability to do effective drops and resets. To level the advantage the net height might need to be increased to make the game more like it was when we felll in love with the game.. If players are getting so good that they can speed up most drops and resets the game will just become a bangers fest. Please try this game again but with a slightly higher net. I'd be very interested to see how the game looks then.

[@evidencebased1]

Super fun! Would have been interesting to alternate games where both teams play it straight (dinks allowed) and compare the scores over all the games.

[@billboz1]

Just about the same amount of dinking as games in my area... lol Fun to watch! Next game, serve from the kitchen and the pros have to hit their first 7 hits (dinks and resets) in the kitchen before they can open up their game.

[@marvindennis3664]

you two have waaay too much fun. Good stuff!@

[@DirtyOldMountainGoat]

Great idea! That was super fun to watch

[@prasiththammasithiboon4194]

In a nutshell, It’s not easy to stop good bangers that know how to get the ball in from any place on the court.

[@dikeajiri-top10rankedsenio30]

This was uniquely entertaining.

[@andremitchell7081]

Just watched this mind game worth 5C of brain power!😂 At 12-7 in 3rd game a few strokes after the ball clipped the net, it looked like when Zane volleyed the ball his paddle clipped the kitchen floor. Zane?😊

[@good2freelance1]

Perhaps both teams not allow to volley the whole games to see who have the best most consistent ground strokes? That would be fun experiment

[@moasaad]

Question: in doubles, should you be “watching” where your partner be hitting the ball to which opponent or just be watching the “ball” on your opponent side?

[@quidproquo9000]

I think you need to do a wheel of chaos where you get a handicap after every point, and they stack. So day first point, can’t dink into the kitchen, that stays for the rest of the game. Then second point, you can only hit backhands. But would be dependent on what you spin on a wheel. Of course would be fun to see that with pros v pros

[@charlesgraves4565]

Zane you should do Pros vs 5.0s and the pros have to use the old fashion wooden paddles

[@hoangakahowie]

This was definitely entertaining 💯

[@madrum]

Is it possible to hit unattackable dinks/ resets against bangers?

[@jeffleonard9983]

Super fun to watch. Thanks. I think the joes should have played a short dinking game forcing the pros to shoot up from the kitchen in order to clear the opposing kitchen thus giving the joes more opportunities. 😁. Joes should have also reset way more giving pros less chance at power shots. Can I try now or are ya afraid of a Canadian butt kicking. 😂.

[@villbuzeep2043]

they wanted to do that, they just got overpowered

[@VasiaLachinov]

Good games! Here is a suggestion for the next challenge - Pros can only use backhands (or forehands). Another idea - pros have to wear heavy pants and coats to slow them down. 🙂

[@wentang7825]

I would like to see another game with the pros not allowed to hit within the zone seven feet from the baseline.

[@mathaddicts100]

This video should be retitled Pros vs. 6.0's. Ahmed is 6.09, and Ryan is 5.78, which is closer to 6 than 5! John's passing shots and Zane's backhand flicks were so impressive! I think 6.0's should have tried to lull the Pros into a dinking game. More patience and try to drop balls as close to the net as possible to force errors. I also think a Pro might have needed to advise the 6.0's. I had no clue what their plan was. Forget his butt. Man with a plan, John Cincola so quickly rattling off many strategies to win was sexy.

[@richpickleball9730]

Wow this is Awesome! It shows that Pickleball is evolving with the new powerful paddle technology. Very skilled Tennis players with good hard drives can rip balls at a sitting duck. And the net guy have to decide in a split second is it going to his left or going to his right? And if he guess wrong... the next shot is the kill shot. In other words, instead of starting the fight at the kitchen line like traditional pickleball, you're starting the fight at the transition zone. And trusting your hands speed for the battle. They all teach you how to beat bangers... just block it back to their feet but easier said than done. I think the Pros would be even more effective if they rip the ball at the net guy a foot to his right or a foot to his left and making them guess and have to reach to block instead of just ripping it to their gut. The pickleball community always say If you don't play the soft dinking game, you don't know how to play pickleball and you're a 3.0 Well, this match proves them all wrong. Bangers can be very effective because of the new powerful paddle technology with tons of spins. If 5.0 having problems handling this power then 4.5 and 4.0 would definitely have problems too. Love to see next video Pros vs 5.0 Banging and volleys only. No balls in the kitchen allowed... keep up the good work and been Innovative.

[@platformfiles]

19:30, yeah that's a hook

[@rosborne2055]

These are very interesting to see. I was surprised that the non-pro's couldn't slow the ball down enough to prevent attacks. I realize it's hard to drop short into the kitchen especially under such an onslaught, but that seems like the best strategy to win. Lots to think about here. Thanks.

[@MyKillerTofu]

Next video idea: Pros have to use two-handed FH and BH the whole game for every shot.

[@berimboplata]

NGL, I like this version of pickleball better - make dinking illegal. Any ball that drops in the NVZ is out.

[@mitchellwassom2194]

Geez, what massive drives. I don't have that good of a drive (yet), and even so, I have prided myself in my ability to beat bangers in the past (low penetrating punch volleys for the win), but recently got humbled by a tennis player / banger with some massive drives that I couldn't seem to handle. This does seem to show that, at the very least, a good drive is an important weapon that I need to develop.

[@richpickleball9730]

Pickleball is evolving with all the new Powerful Paddle technology. You can Rip the balls as hard as you can and still be able to make in stay in because of topspin. Not so much back in the old days with the cheap paddles. There are good bangers and there are average bangers. Just because someone once beat a banger doesn't mean they can beat all bangers. Developing a forehand or backhand groundstrokes weapon is very effective and useful in the future.

[@skylercutsforth8595]

3:30 serve was OUT! What a nice guy letting that slide... lol 5.0s should have strategized to be volley their dinks almost never. so many looked like they'd be super close or for sure in the kitchen.

[@johnmcclure4983]

I thought 5.0s were pros.

[@abigaillesliedelisa6393]

was Johns serve legal, just asking?

[@WorldChampInfinity]

Interesting and fun to watch. A strategy I would have tried against the pros would be to dink really shallow, close to the net. Yes, it is riskier, but the usual response to a shallow dink is to dink it right back over. The pros wouldn't have that option. They'd be force to lob it up.

[@richpickleball9730]

Good Luck... as you can see they tried so hard to reset. But with bullets flying at you in every which ways easier said then done. Be very interesting to see the same experiment with 4 Pros same Level.

[@stevemaley7562]

I love this

[@MartyNES1]

I feel like there were a lot of out balls hit. 5.0s should have focused on defensive dinks to make the pros speedups near impossible and probably going out. Pros might have had to change strategy by lobbing more.

[@xiaotaoguo4112]

The pros were forced to make speedups and some of them can be countered back with placement and down spins. The 3rd drive could be better dealt with.

[@webstermiller7765]

So pretty much a men's banger 4.0 style of play :-). I see it all the time.

[@yasim9435]

Instead can you demo making shots as drives only ( no dinks) including hitting kitchen from baseline and midcourt

[@jamesmusial9865]

That's how I play and it's more fun. Also I'm 66 and I'm at a disadvantage drinking at the net against 35 year olds.

[@casey10614]

you a coors or miller guy?

[@Goofymonkey11]

You just need to train your drinking more so it doesn’t get you buzzed as fast up at the net.

[@mateowang33]

The takeaway is that the soft game is only necessary for pros. If 5.0’s can’t handle the banging, your typical rec player for sure can’t

[@andrewgarcia2868]

I think the takeaway is banging might work when you are playing worse players. Players of similar ability, soft game is important.

[@chubun6631]

I think the 5.0s handled the banging quite well, but the pros were much better at quick exchanges at the net. So they simply tried to get to the net then speed up. it also looks like the 5.0s were shock-and-awe and didn't play their best.

[@richpickleball9730]

I totally agreed! With all the new powerful paddle technology the drives are so much harder to handle. The pickleball community always say in theory... Just block it back to their feet but easier said than done. Good skill Tennis players can drive hard shots very consistently and effortlessly. Pickleball is evolving whether you like it or not...

[@mateowang33]

@@chubun6631yes, the 5.0s lack fast hands and strong counters at the kitchen line. It seemed like they were afraid to have a hands battle with the pros and were constantly just playing defense. I agree with Colin Johns that table tennis and tennis skills is the ideal skill combo. High level table tennis or badminton skills will help with kitchen battles.

[@jro937]

5.0s can’t handle the banging?! You must be 3.5 at best 😂 go play some better players

[@ER-rp8gi]

Second game at point to, the one shot through the center of the two lower end players was out. Why does Zane’s team get a point for that? Was it because the lower end players were not paying attention so Zane pair just took it?! lol

[@guittadabe5214]

Very, very impressive!

[@benwsko]

Bang Bang Bang

[@aconneen]

My partner had it in. LOL!! 7:51

[@wangys553]

Well, the 5.0s never initiated an attack. The pros were always in attacking position whereas the 5.0s were always defending, and the pros didn't expect any counter attack.

[@carlosbotello8371]

Play with the traditional wooden paddles or with your non dominant hands!

[@Bowman15]

Pros use $20 Amazon paddles and 5.0 get the most expensive paddles.

[@christopherahmed8961]

I am not a banger but I wonder if bangers watch this and this encourages them to believe bangers style is the future of pickleball? Tbh faster might be the future?

[@GhillieFrog]

I agree. Already the first 3 PPA matches of this year have less dinking or shorter dinking rallies. Tyson Mcguffin commented on this just recently in a podcast. He was comparing it to the first 3 matches in 2023.

[@richpickleball9730]

I believe Pickleball is evolving with the new powerful paddle technology. Very skilled players with good hard drives can rip balls at a sitting duck. And the net guy have to decide in a split second is it going to his left or going to his right? And if he guess wrong... Guess what the next shot is the kill shot. In other words, instead of starting the fight at the kitchen line like traditional pickleball, you're starting the fight at the transition zone. And trusting your hands speed for the battle. The pickleball community always say If you don't play the soft dinking game, you don't know how to play pickleball. Well, this match proves them all wrong. Bangers can be very effective because of the new powerful paddle technology with tons of spins.

[@GhillieFrog]

💯

[@JasonDeats]

Why does Cincola engage his vocal cords when hitting the ball?

[@robertsteinberger5667]

The owner where I play says; no beer? No pickleball.....

[@LeanneSchultz-x3y]

This is 3.5 play where I live.

[@mikeoliver861]

You guys were forced to play like some of my 3.0 friends. These guys never dink or drop and always slam.

[@dominionn09]

They forgot about the out balls. I would have let half of those balls go

[@richpickleball9730]

If slamming and hard drives wins points and you can do it consistently why not. continue to do it until someone proves you differently. It's a good strategy for them. They can learn and get better at dinking alone the way. Plus it so much more Fun and a great cardio workout playing the Power game.

[@mikeoliver861]

@@richpickleball9730 I guess it depends on what you like. I like a combination of dink rallies, fire fights and power game.

[@richpickleball9730]

@@mikeoliver861 I agreed. A good combination of shots are preferable. In today's game it's more like 80% dinking battles. I think in the future it will be 60% dinking and 40% hard drives... beginning to see that in more of the Pro's game now.

[@mikeoliver861]

@@richpickleball9730 It may not look difficult, but a good dink rally is much harder to do than some people realize.

[@redelfpickleballfundamentals]

Reset into the kitchen is the answer. Make the pros play dink slow game so they'll be force to hit ball upward

[@richpickleball9730]

It's easier said than done. That's what they all teach you in theory. Block it back to their feet, but this match shows that it's not that easy if The hard drives are going at bullet speeds. If it was that easy they would have been able to reset effortlessly 80% of the time.

[@JesseUnderscoreMartin]

Pro bangers!

[@claycc79]

Pros vs 4.4s

[@DearDextra]

this is just tennis :D

[@Canada-q6y]

Good

[@Ke875]

Don’t change the kitchen game ! Don’t play like tennis leave the game alone !

[@Goofymonkey11]

The game hasn’t changed. If they would have played equal skill levels they would have lost only banging away.

[@patricksnyder3446]

That was an easy $500

[@joenenninger971]

I fear this is what p/ball is headed to. It was fun to watch but I can't play that game.

[@richpickleball9730]

It just mean you need to work on your Power game. Pickleball is evolving weather you like it or not because of New Paddle technology. Evolve with it. Get Better.

[@joenenninger971]

Rich, I'm 78, I don't have/won't have/don't want a strictly power game. Without the strategy and finesse of dinking it's just tennis on a shrunken court which is what many of the tennis players want.​@richpickleball9730

[@iantercero5380]

Just drop the ball barely into the kitchen! How can they do anything shallow into the kitchen!

[@richpickleball9730]

In theory yes... but easier said then done. As you can see they tried... If it was that easy then they would have resets or drop into the kitchen short 80% of the time already. Dealing with super fast hard drives is not as easy as everyone think with the new powerful paddle technology. You might be able to dodge a few bullets and reset some but not all.

[@damiencoffey2391]

I'm a former tennis player, I love these rules! No dinking would make for a more exciting game! Plus tennis players aka bangers would have a huge advantage!

[@richpickleball9730]

Pickleball is evolving with all the new paddle technology. More and more hard drives 3rd shots are now in the game then ever.

[@frank88ster]

Anyone wanting to see if both teams cannot play dinks but can smash. Ya, that and lobs? Lol! Be like watching 'aerial ping pong'. Ball in NVZ is a fault.