Why Sukuna vs Pochita is Tragically One-Sided, BUT... | Jujutsu Kaisen vs Chainsaw Man

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Sukuna vs Pochita. The King of Curses vs The Hero of Hell. The Disgraced One vs Chainsaw Man. Who would win in a battle to take it all?
Intro 00:00
Sukuna's Strenght 0:43
Pochita's Power 3:11
VoyceMe 1:16
Who is Faster? 7:11
Who Would Win? 10:58
The Ten Shadows 12:16
Conclusion & Outro 14:02
Music Used:
• 『 Cursed Technique: Le...
• Chainsaw Man Ending 12...
• Jujutsu Kaisen OST - N...
• Chainsaw Man OST EDGE ...
• Itadori vs Mahito | Ju...
• Chainsaw Man - Opening...

[@ZenithAniManga]

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[@donuts9549]

I think Sukuna would be able to immediately recognize Pochita as a threat, as he has hundreds of years of experience fighting the strongest of the strong. I think he definitely can pull it off, maybe protecting himself with a few Shikigami (if ten shadows is involved), surviving by a hair to cast his Domain Expansion. From there it should be gg as his AP should be enough to end it right there.

[@nonenone-hv5iq]

@@donuts9549 that’s not to mention his insane dura due to scaling past kenny(who tanked a black hole for several panels before countering it)

[@yaboimart9771]

Pochita dodged a litteral light level speed attack

[@nonenone-hv5iq]

@@yaboimart9771 when?

[@RobynReanimates]

Imagine how fucking pissed Sukuna would be if he lost, knowing that not only would he be dead but forgotten if Pochita eats him

[@lasagna665]

and then imagine how pissed everyone would be next chapter when sukuna off screens pochita and some side character glazingly says "sukuna-sama has yet to go all out"

[@Stryfe52]

@@lasagna665”Sukuna-sama! Ohhh, ohh!!! It hurts… Sukuna-sam-aaahhh!!!”

[@mugetsu...]

Domain Expanaion,Fire Arrow, World Cutting Slash bye bye pochita

[@RobynReanimates]

@@mugetsu... Have you considered that Pochita is made of Chainsaws?

[@mugetsu...]

Have you ever considered that I don’t give a fuck?

[@inumakisenpai]

Also, the gun devil was moving and not teleporting. Makima said this so herself as his meat chunks literally came off because of how fast he moved.

[@justsquaro1989]

True!

[@normalperson8743]

im also pretty sure aki's house was destroyed because it was in the path that the gun devil was going in and just got obliterated because of how fast it went

[@Benjuicyy]

@@normalperson8743 Ooooooh I always wondered what the Gun Devil did to create such massive wind to destroy Aki's house

[@priyankamondal7470]

​@@normalperson8743nah the gun shots were shown

[@roguesoul5051]

Just wanna say that new scaling for CSM top tiers has dropped. In the new chapter Fami says the devils she summons are weak and she cannot control them fully. That means what Falling did around the world (cave-ins, gravity flunctuations, cities destroyed, landslides, etc.) was while Falling was weakened. That's insane. The fact that Makima could also injure Darkness in his true state is even more insane after these news.

[@ZenithAniManga]

It's so crazy, honestly. The final fights of this series are gonna be on a much bigger scale than we've seen in it

[@roguesoul5051]

@@ZenithAniManga Yep. Fami wants Pochita and Yoru to be stronger to kill the Death devil. All of the fights with high tiers are gonna be nuts

[@unendingvoid]

CSM has a much higher ceiling than JJK, and much more high tiers

[@dr.random1793]

Wasn't it already stated that Devils possessing humans are weaker in general? I might be getting this wrong, I'll try to find it again

[@roguesoul5051]

@@dr.random1793 If you mean fiends then yes, they are weaker in human bodies. However if I'm not mistaken Makima (in P1), Nayuta (P2), Fami and Yor are not fiends. They are straight up devils.

[@princerollins1629]

Pochita is the same person who killed and ate the Nuclear Weapons Devil (Nukes), he survived attacks that could kill sukuna

[@pablox2139]

Yeah sure dude He also ate that star devil só i guess pochita can destroy The Sun or something 👍

[@princerollins1629]

I'm trying to say that Sukuna has nothing that could possibly kill Pochita@@pablox2139

[@HeresyInquisitor]

Ah yes a natural disaster can be destroyed by Nukes, if that were the case then hollow purple would’ve killed sukuna.

[@abura2980]

​@@pablox2139 it's a not a stretch tho, it was stated that The Falling Devil was able to cause gravity fluctuations around the globe causing landslides, earthquakes, and buildings to collapse just by it existing on Earth, and that was a weakened one based on the recent chapter when Fami mentioned she can't use the full power of the devils she uses.

[@abura2980]

​@@HeresyInquisitorSukuna ain't a natural disaster lil bro💀stfu with your hyperbolic bs

[@stricknit]

The sad thing is that all Pochita feats are offscreen, they are massive because even freaking Darkness Devil hate his guts and that motherfocker is a Sukuna on stereoids. I really want to see how Prime Yoru was, pretty sure she loved to spam nuclear bombs since she want that devil back badly. and how he ate the other concepts that led to death along the star. Honestly i can imagine Pochita seeing him opening the domain only to straight up yeet his heart and regenerate in front of him and ate his head lol. Next scene is a blank background with Sukuna happy to find a fight that made him happy and Pochita will only say "Hamburger"

[@Future_Cat23]

Where is the proof dd is stronger then sukuna

[@tinydicksenpai449]

@@Future_Cat23common sense

[@fangirl3323]

Have you not read the manga?

[@glitchei]

@@Future_Cat23the fucking primal unkillable fear of the dark

[@cherrypoptart2001]

@@Future_Cat23 The darkness devil u see in the manga is just a fraction of its true power , it was literally a drop that fell through the door in hell, it was more of screwing with the main characters than actually fighting them seriously

[@proape6052]

I think the issue with Pochita is that he's hard carried by unknown lore and that Chainsaw Man in general has a lot of big potential lore that we can only guess at like all the stuff Makima hyped him up for killing. It's like early JJK where people could only guess at how strong Sukuna was at full power and we only got mentions of Heian Era. I remember how I think this would still be a really interesting match up once we get a lot more lore on Chainsaw Man.

[@glitchei]

imean, it is clearly stated that those unknown feats did canonically happen

[@pspsmallz]

The stated feats happened though, makima has no reason to lie about pochita power since she badly wanted to use him and be with him even lol

[@proape6052]

@@glitchei It's not that those feats didn't happen, it's that we have no idea what the context is. The devils Pochita killed could be slightly stronger than the gun devil or they could be having crazy planet destroying fights like in Devilman Crybaby.

[@veisslie_4880]

​@@proape6052 I think you could more or less infer how dangerous those devils Pochita ate given how much people feared them. Like, surely the Nuke Devil was catastrophic and world ending

[@cordlol]

Honestly i really love this match up, both have four arms, both cut things up, both are feared as hell in their own universes

[@fangirl3323]

Pochita doesn't have four arms though

[@jeepee2609]

@@fangirl3323 he does, his devil form

[@fangirl3323]

​@@jeepee2609 oops my bad 😅

[@CJ-qv4sd]

So basically in a nutshell If Sukuna takes pochita seriously then he would win because he has better hax and battle IQ but if he doesn’t take him seriously then pochita would win so all in all a Sukuna that’s not going all out and not taking pochita seriously would lose while a Sukuna that’s going all out and taking pochita seriously would win

[@ZenithAniManga]

It's one of those things where it's an interesting fight and then you take domain expansion into consideration. Its just so broken that unless someone can tank it, is completely immortal, or has some kind of defensive hax, its usually gonna win the fight.

[@theodorable1425]

@@ZenithAniMangaand they can’t just have any old defensive hax either, I mean look at Gojo, he has Infinity, which has become a staple in the anime community, and is (I believe) one of the most iconic hax/abilities in recent Shonen, as well as shonen anime as a whole. And yet, any half-decent domain expansion can bypass infinity as if it was nothing, so the defensive hax needed to defend against or nullify the sure-hit effect of any domain expansion, let alone Malevolent Shrine💀, would be absolutely ridiculous. What makes domain-expansion so damn broken in cross-verse battles is that the most viable (and achievable) method of countering or battling a domain-expansion is to lay out your own domain, which isn’t an option that is available to any verse apart from JJK, so unless it’s a verse that scales WAYYY past JJK, then domain expansions (especially ones like Unlimited Void or Idle Transfiguration) can be JJK’s key to victory against cross-verse characters that would otherwise conventionally scale above them.

[@greatminikwu9089]

@@ZenithAniMangathe point you made about Mahoraga and the adaptation I don’t agree with cause of sukkuna wears the wheel the more times pochita hits him the faster he adapts and remember just one hit from sukkuna slash slower Mahoraga to see and deflect it and one red that hit sukkuna caused Mahoraga to gain insane resistance to red and knowing pochita fighting style the the adaptation will be sukkuna vs Mahoraga all over again 😂 every identical hit he takes he just adapts faster

[@greatminikwu9089]

@@ZenithAniMangaand also sukkuna doesn’t get immune from adaptation it’s Mahoraga who inherits the adaption no matter if sukkuna wears the wheel ., the whole point of Mahoraga not getting time to adapt isn’t plausible when you real size the effectiveness of adaptation with a single hit and how the process speeds up when hit more times and pochita fighting style is just a bad counter cause he attacks relentless

[@syznfef_editz]

Bro those jjk meatriders are crazy, Gun Devil 100%>Sukuna no diff bro😂

[@unendingvoid]

Also I'm gonna disagree with ur attempt at debunking the MHS speeds of Makima and the Gun Devil. It doesn't matter if the feat of the Gun killing people around the world isn't scalable because the fight with Makima is. The Gun Devil's bullet travelled 500km in a second which is a MHS speed feat calced at over mach 1300. In order to fire bullets and move at ridiculous speeds like this, the Gun Devil must be able to perceive what he is doing, aim and whatnot. So he inherently scales to this if not slightly slower in overall speed. Makima didn't dodge the bullets and we all know it's objectively because she has no reason to Aside from that, u said she has no speed feats over the Gun Devil but that isn't true. Makima and the Gun Devil's confrontation lasted a total of 2-3 seconds and all of their attacks were launched and ended within that very small timeframe, while both were 500 kilometres away from each other which is countries' level of distance in some cases. When Makima used the combination of Devils to drop on the Gun Devil, the attack was able to hit the Gun Devil faster than it could react to protect itself or move out of the way, even though it lifted its head up to acknowledge the attack was about to hit it. Unless you want to argue that the Snake Devil and Punishment Devil are massively, massively faster than Makima is to be able to pull this off, it just sounds like complete nonsense not to scale her to these speeds. Makima is a horseman and she is capable of putting the Darkness Devil on its knees, and equal it in a finger quickdraw, who is verbatim stated to be far more powerful than some Gun Devil, and this is even considering it at its full 100% of its power while it's exhibiting speed feats in the thousands of machs at just 20%. There is also the fact that Makima is in control of the Future Devil which would enable her to react to things much more easily

[@dr.random1793]

In my opinion if you want to agree, is Gun Devil is just fulfilling the American President's contract here. His contract is to kill the control devil, which it does. Going off of ch 76, after Makima dies and revives, Gun Devil stops shooting. There's splashes in the water before and the lack of them after she revives. Makima then responds 1 second after Gun Devil's attack and lands the attack 1 second after that, where we see Gun Devil is literally standing still for 3 seconds and not firing at anything, kinda like a robot after finishing a task. In this case, I would not think this scales Makima at all to Gun Devil, since she doesn't stop Gun Devil's attack, in fact Gun Devil kills her before she could finish her own attack 1 second after Makima starts her wind up. It's more of a feat for all the devils she summoned since they did the attacking instead of her

[@erthsda6758]

Also... The fact that the Four Horsemen and Primal Fears are just superior to the Gun Devil in the Hierarchy

[@inumakisenpai]

⁠@@dr.random1793That’s fair but you can also interpret it as Makima reacting to the gun devil bullets by instantly putting her chains on Aki and Angel ( the gun devil bullets were calced mach 1400) just 1 second after the gun devil activated it’s ability as well as the gun devil failing to react to her attack due to the portal on the page that looks like she sent the attack directly to the gun devil.

[@tienluong9648]

Human Denji got the drop on her tho, that's a huge anti feat

[@inumakisenpai]

I don’t know why everyone seems to forget the Pochita from the end of Part 1 was heavily weakened due to everyone no longer fearing him and turning him into merchandise. Like he died twice from Makima alone, clearly he was weak here. Also, I fail to see how Pochita just can’t walk in his MS like Mahoraga? His healing would make it extremely possible especially when Gojo was able to handle it with his RCT. Pochita slams sukuna and it isn’t close imo

[@CJ-qv4sd]

Even if pochita were to walk through it, all Sukuna gotta do is throw a world cutting slash that ignores durability and cuts through space itself and pochita would end up looking like minced meat and Sukuna can just finish him off with a fire arrow before pochita even gets to regenerate his body like he did to mahoraga.

[@inumakisenpai]

@@CJ-qv4sd Pochita's healing far trumps Mahoraga's and it isn’t even a question. Everything that we’ve seen was during his weakened form and him in his prime would 100% heal from that slash. If it was so easy killing Pochita then he would have died from the get go with his encounter with death but he survived and lived to tell the tale. I mean can Sukuna even deal with the 4 horsemen jumping him? I highly doubt seeming as death is the strongest in the verse.

[@CJ-qv4sd]

@@inumakisenpai we have absolutely no idea how strong death is or what she’s capable of so for now we’re going based off feats we saw from part 1 and I don’t see pochita surviving being sliced into pieces by world cutting slash which would ignore durability and malevolent shrine’s sure hit effect at the same time and then vaporized by a fire arrow on top of that, matter of fact the fire arrow sukuna would use here would be way more powerful than the one we saw in shibuya since we’re using 20 finger sukuna here.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

​@@CJ-qv4sdThe fire arrow calced at the city ranges and apparently mountain in the anime vs the gun devil carving through Japan calced at the same level before being amped by fear. He's taking the fire arrow along with all his slashes and would regenerate from them. Cutting his heart won't kill him since Denji tore a piece of it off to fight Makima if you believe that.

[@CJ-qv4sd]

@@jackaboynaylor9273 Sukuna has higher AP than gun devil

[@nexusen_]

Sukuna: Ahhh my anti pochita technique. I haven't used that since heian era.

[@thorshammer7883]

This is some good powerscaling analysis and consideration to not overscale like many have regressed to in the community. You zenithanimanga do some good work in understanding nuances and make sure not to fall into the repetition of interpretation overscaling. Along with atarihmb, zaelleaz, and thundergod, you and those guys have become my most favorite scalers in these bad days of the powerscaling community where relative and rational scaling has gone off the window. For the framework of speed, Character stats and profiles has a pretty good frame of reference to take notes on of the tier of speed. Good video. For another match up Anos Voldigoad the demon king vs Wang Ling the Immortal King would be a great one to make some interesting analysis on.

[@ZenithAniManga]

Thank you very much, that's a very kind comment. As far as your recommendation, I'm really not familiar with the scaling for either of those and I think I would make a very bad video out of it

[@thorshammer7883]

​@ZenithAniMang Oh okay then. Anos and Wang Ling are considered some of the strongest anime/manga or light novel characters to appear these days. Wang Ling is from Daily Life of the Immortal King and Anos is from Misfit at Demon Academy. The few who know them often use cosmology scaling too many times and directly compare them to heavy macrocosm hitters like Goku or other characters who more powerful then him. Unfortunately most of them are shorts with not enough indepth research and consideration. Since you are currently not familiar with those two series how about this suggestion with a verse which many know that can be tackled? The Nasuverse Type-Moon versus Mori Jin?

[@thorshammer7883]

​@@ZenithAniManga You're welcome.

[@Marcusstar-kd6zn]

Honestly, I think scaling sukuna at this point is useless because the guy still is not taking the fight seriously in the manga, so the whole fight with sukuna feels iffy because they jjk is still going, and apparently sukuna is about approaching the Madara situation, so any fight involving sukuna becomes invalid until we know how fucking powerful gaga plan to make the guy.

[@MeloYelo]

We do know that he was sweating against Gojo, but the issue is that we never got a top end for his capabilities, and we don’t even know how fast the new combatants are post training. JJK just really doesn’t want to be scaled-

[@grimmtherapist]

​@@MeloYelo He was holding back against Gojo, do not come with you headcanon bullshit because Gege himself confirmed this

[@NAMSTYYY]

@@grimmtherapist Glazing Sukuna like that is crazy, is it you Gege? Sukuna literally got carried by Mahoraga in his fight vs Gojo, I don't care what other people says.

[@grimmtherapist]

@@NAMSTYYY "I don't care what the author says, my headcanon I've made with my own ass is right!!!" Sure then buddy, but I guess not even you truly believes that.

[@quadeccca9151]

@@NAMSTYYY well no because sukuna couldnt fight like he usually does due to having to adapt to infinity.

[@dredd230]

nah not using current sukuna is wild when ur using current pochita

[@Cutestgirlygirl]

We haven't seen a current pochita yet tho

[@dredd230]

have read the manga few chapters ago@@Cutestgirlygirl

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

Current Sukuna is around Yuta in CE level who is stated to be half of Sukuna's. That puts his total volume at 10F level and this is Ignoring all the other nerfs he got! Bruh's strongest slash rn might be equivalent or even less than a normal slash at full power! Older Sukuna would be fairer for him to get bruh at full power.

[@lasagna665]

bro's reading jukaijusen @@jackaboynaylor9273

[@atom4282]

I think current sukuna with 10s and mahoraga at 100% health would be the strongest in the whole verse Probably even stronger than heian era sukuna​@jackaboynaylor9273

[@user-lh6nc4bv6f]

This was very insightful, thank you. Good EP.

[@dr.random1793]

Just to add to the speed scaling, Maki after her awakening, can keep up with curse Naoya's travel speed on foot. She is also able to blitz behind him twice before he pops his domain. Spoilers Sukuna is then able to perception blitz her in ch 253 while at half his cursed energy capacity, after getting hit by Yuji who ambiguously nerfed his output by damaging Sukuna's soul, and after having his heart completely destroyed by Maki in a sneak attack, where he has to dedicate some of his output in keeping his body alive. So minimum, above a blitz and perception blitz above mach 3 My bets probably on Sukuna, since devils get their power nerfed by only two things, lack of fear and lack of blood. The latter Sukuna is an expert at performing especially since everyone in Chainsaw man are vulnerable to slicing attacks

[@pablox2139]

She was Just outmanuvering him with her hightened 5 senses , and she used a sneak attack using The fact that domain rules dont affect her , she didnt blitz him .

[@dr.random1793]

@@pablox2139 I’m referencing the exchange she started a few pages after she chased him into the city in ch 197 specifically pages 11-12 and 15 15 is a bit ambiguous but 11-12 is a straight up blitz, Maki is in the background of page 11 and instantly appears behind him after he flies to a different part of the city

[@dr.random1793]

@@pablox2139 isn’t blitzing just outmaneuvering someone before they can react? I’m talking about the step before fully perception blitzing someone

[@pablox2139]

@@dr.random1793 i dont like using exactly this definition . An attack too fast for The opponent react is what i like tô consider . A slower opponent can easily outmanuver a faster one with experience , hax , moves , etc . About maki vs cursed naoya , i dont remenber exactly all aspects of The fight , Just The highlights and The conclusion

[@Deflamed_Sphere]

@@pablox2139 thats smart

[@pablox2139]

Pretty good and reosonable VS video ( kinda hard to find nowadays ) . I agree with pretty much all you said

[@anotherdnb]

The complicated thing about powerscaling JJK and CSM is most likely how their authors present their powers. JJK is presented very narratively, giving good and plausible explanations to powers. However, in CSM, things just...happen. Some powers or even characters aren't explained detailedly, or even explained at all (like Darkness), which makes it hard to calculate canon power without underestimating or overpowering a lot of the cast.

[@odeiomelao]

I feel like the easy result for this fight is that Pochita can simply destroy things much more than Sukuna and Mahoraga with his raw strength Not only that, but let's remember Pochita is basically undefeatable as long as he has blood If this is in a urban scenario where blood is being spilled from all sides, Pochita is taking this Sukuna's win condition here is exclusively malevolent shrine, but the problem is if he can even hold it for long enough without getting simply split in half Let's remember that Pochita can regenerate any part of his body in a second, while Sukuna cannot

[@AllBladesCut]

Ya I never thought of the possibility that maho could enter this fight pre adapted to cutting attacks due to his fight with sukuna that’s quite interesting.

[@The_Omnipotent_Lurk]

Adapting to cutting attacks doesn’t mean, mahoraga is immune to those. Mahoraga was still cut up by Sukuna inside his domain even though he adapts to cuts in general. On top of that Pochita is immortal, no matter how many times you kill him he gets back up. People try to use the near-death state of Pochita, to justify Pochita can die. Makima mentioned that he died, he literally died because of other Devils probably Primal Fears BUT he still gets up explained by Makima, the near-death state only matters to show his insane durability and what it took to get him in this state, that is something Sukuna is in no way able to resemble. He only was in this state, because every horseman and the weapon humans jumped him. Yoru used Nuclear Weapons and apparently Pochita ate them literally. Sukuna’s Domain Doesn’t do anything to him other than cutting him up, sure what then? He just respawns in Hell and goes right back to earth, even from what it looks like in the manga, he is the only Devil who broke free of the death and rebirth circle unlike Makima who rebirths as Nayuta.

[@RafaelSantos-cm9xy]

Just paused at the part of Sukuna speed. The first attack Kashimo used wasn't EMW, was a sonic attack. That attack that hits Sukuna, the EMW never did. And he outspeed it in his World Dismantle while chanting

[@zaimhoque8418]

Kashimo used 2 type of attacks which are sound waves and emw,none of this hit's Sukuna,Only Kashimo's punches hit's him and sukuna was heavily injured that time

[@RafaelSantos-cm9xy]

@@zaimhoque8418 fair

[@Dylannister]

You can scale Makima to Gun Devil in terms of speed. People forget that the hierarchy of devils is fear based and the more a devil is feared the stronger they are in power, strength and speed. Not only is this factor about devils stated numerous times throughout the series in-general, but this is directly shown when Yoru gets a fear boost she blitz past Yoshida by accident being surprised by her new speed. And its also implied that the power that the Gun Devil gained in order to perform it's world wide massacre is directly correlated to the boost in fear of Guns world wide due to that terrorist attack. Makima and the Horseman are almost equal or slighly inferior to Primal Fears when it comes to this hierarchy with Gun being so far below them that devils would mock it's power when in comparison to that of a Primal Fear. And this large gap of power is consistent considering how easily Makima dispatched it and forced it to become a fiend. Therefore Makima does scale to Gun, if not higher due to the Devil Hierarchy. This is the rule given to us and so far the series has been pretty consistent to it. Unless it's stated otherwise that Horseman are for some reason exceptions to this rule of Devil Hierarchy in terms of power, than you can easily scale Makima above Gun in terms of speed despite not showing any crazy movement speed feats of her own. Yes her not dodging the bullet isn't indicative of her speed, but it's not an anti-feat either. You can't both claim that it's a valid argument as to why she didn't dodge and then continue to use this scene to downplay her speed as well. You need a different argument. How can you claim that Pochita can be killed because it is baked into his lore while also ignoring the rest of the context of that very same lore. Pochita can """die""" but what makes him so referred in hell amongst devils and the Horseman is the fact that he always gets back up no matter how many times you kill him. Even IF Sukuna kills him, there's no reason why his way of "killing him" would be more effective than the many ways he would had died before. So he'd just get right back up. Again, how are you going to claim that killing him is a simple matter of cutting up his heart when you yourself talked up about how he simultaneously got jumped by all the Horseman including the literally Devil of Death who's power and speciality would mostly likely revolve around killing things, and yet he put up a good fight against them long enough for Makima to worship him and Yoru to get weakened by him, and still come out not dead. Sukuna's Domain Expansion would not be a wincon for him in this fight, since people without Curse Energy can not be trapped by Domains unless they consent to it as shown in the Curse Naoya fight, so Pochita can literally just jump and he'd be free of it. Not to mention the slashes Sukuna uses in his domain are not very effective to those with high regeneration as seen with Gojo who just tanked all of Sukuna slashes and healed himself like nothing happened. Bro was even just standing there in glee while being slashed up talking about how he's glad that Sukuna's Domain is weaker than he is. You also just didn't mention Pochita's existence erasure ability at all which is so potent that it can erase concepts from space time. If Pochita just starts munching on Sukuna, he'll get weaker over time like Yoru did until he would no longer even pose a threat to Pochita. TLDR: You have on one side a character with extremely high regeneration who can regenerate from a single organ, and couldn't be killed even after fighting against multiple characters at once which includes the strongest character in the verse who's speciality is in death, a character who can summon Primal Fears, and another character who probably has more hax abilities available to her than the entire JJK verse combined. And on the other side is a dude who's from a series where even the best RCT users best feats of regeneration is limited to just restoring limbs at a time, and has shown that it gets weaker overtime the more damage you sustain and will only work as long as your brain isn't damaged. Yeah it's easily in Pochita's favour to win.

[@TomasBregman]

Only specifically Makima, Prime Yoru and Fami are as strong as primal devils and therefore above the gun devil. Nayuta is weak as hell.

[@inumakisenpai]

Facts

[@lasagna665]

pochita eats a sukuna finger and gets taken over, then it's revealed that sukuna-sama has yet to go all out

[@bndrewd]

Open Domains like Malevolent Shrine, don´t trap people inside. Everything and everyone in the 200m radius are targeted by it, as it also attack things without cursed energy. The Domain is still a wincon as the slashes from the Domain are instant and need no contact. Still, we have no details on exactly what happened during the Four Horsemen against Pochita. Because the Death Devil should´ve just stomped on Pochita, we only know that he barely escaped and turned into that little doggy form that Denji finds. Sukuna is easier to scale, but Pochita could go from getting destroyed by Malevolent Shrine to doing the same Mahoraga did in the anime (walking through the slashes while regenerating). Is still uncertain, so a lot of Pochita scaling is speculation.

[@Dylannister]

@@bndrewd Then that just makes it even easier for Pochita to escape the domain. Considering the track record for how unimpressive his slashes were inside the domain against characters with extremely high and fast regeneration. You need a better argument to suggest MS is an instant win against Pochita who could just tank it or easily leap out of its range. And no, we don't have "no" details on the fight against the Horsemen. We literally know for a fact that Pochita managed to kill Makima at least 24 times before the start of the series and impressed her so much that she started to respect and worship him, completely consume a few devils including the one that embodied the name of the weapon devil hybrids, managed to severely weaken Yoru despite her killing him multiple times, and managed to escape near-death. So it was clearly not a one sided stomp like you're implying it would had been. So even without complete knowledge we can still infer enough that Pochita was very impressive in that fight and that should be recognised. Especially in this very context where Zenith is arguing that Sukuna could kill Pochita because Pochita is implied to be able to "die" in his lore, despite every factor indicating that means nothing considering how often he "dies" to opponents who are more impressive than Sukuna in ways to kill someone than just slashing attacks.

[@nateslife9686]

Do you have a link to the original thumbnail art? The one with Sukuna using the fire arrow.

[@agenteleven1512]

In this kind of situation, whoever wins is whoever the writer wants to win. I appreciate that you played “devil’s advocate” so much!

[@Burns_LivingFlowers]

Only a Sukuna fan would say that. It hurts I know.

[@KageKagemaru97]

Great video, any thoughts on making videos about the Berserk series, like Toji vs Guts

[@mugetsu...]

Guys has suffered enough don’t put him against toji

[@mugetsu...]

Guts *

[@yoriavila4308]

Honestly, I just want both JJK and Chainsaw Man to release chapters faster so that we can actually see how these two finally end up in their scalings and all of that vs stuff and not have to rely on a bunch of ambiguous lore guessing.

[@icantbelieveyoudonethis4059]

Frankly I don’t really have anything negative to say about what was said in the vid. You outlined your points nicely and there’s nothing really wrong with what you’ve said. Sukuna very much does in character play around and he’s very likely to engage Pochita in close quarters at the start. However based on what we’ve seen and if Pochita’s heart truly is his soft spot I lean towards Sukuna taking the win since he should be able to survive facing Pochita till he can cast his domain. Although about the head point didn’t Spear Man pierce Pochita’s chest?

[@ZenithAniManga]

Yeah either the spear hybrid is weirdly powerful or Pochita is weirdly not durable. And I believe it's the latter

[@icantbelieveyoudonethis4059]

@@ZenithAniManga It probably is the latter since even Falling Devil got hurt by Denji

[@konradoles1848]

Gun Devil unironically negs JJK with the exception of Gojo

[@CJ-qv4sd]

Sukuna one shots that nigga with a world cutting slash

[@lilcomerag]

​@@CJ-qv4sdBro can't even hit him with a world cutting slash

[@CJ-qv4sd]

@@lilcomerag he easily can lmao

[@lilcomerag]

@@CJ-qv4sd He wouldn't even be able to perceive the Gun devil, he moves too fast and he can kill him while being far out of his reach.

[@CJ-qv4sd]

@@lilcomerag Sukuna is faster than the gun devil + he’s far more durable enough to take on all of his bullets as he was able to survive maximum hollow purple(which should be stronger than gun devil easily), Jacob’s ladder, executioner sword, and soul split katana all without dying and these attacks are supposed to instantly kill you but he still ends up surviving them all so I don’t see bullets killing Sukuna here

[@twolist7420]

The issue is speed. Pochita is probably comparable to the speed of light. Just looking at returning from hell shows that. Skuna cannot prepare for Pochita's attacks. And if Skuna gets eaten by Pochita, Skuna can't regenerate and dies. Conversely, no matter how powerful a regenerator Pochita is, Skuna can grind it up. However, the initiative is with Pochita, and if it senses an enemy, it will immediately attack automatically. So, Pochita wins. Due to the nature of the Jujustu Kaisen manga, the effects are flashy, so Skuna may seem stronger, but logically analyzing it, it's a perfect victory for Pochita

[@zaimhoque8418]

Pochita is nowhere near speed of light speed,he is mhs at best

[@atleast1x3]

11:46 spatial slash is a second more effective option with will just erase pochitas heart if aimed properly.

[@jessicaskirrow2604]

There's also a he thing of domains guaranteed hit effect not working if the thing doesn't have cursed energy meaning the domain wouldn't work either

[@turtle7235]

Sukunas domain targets anything within the domain including inanimate objects or people without cursed energy

[@cadendamonkay2552]

This video gives a great covering of the debate and boths advantages, personally I’d have to give it to Sukuna but it’s definitely close

[@TheGreatBread001]

Pochita can also just bite of bits of Sukuna and remover their existence which means it couldn't be regened

[@MannerDan-gw9ik]

I wonder if you would be interested in using video game characters for vs debates. I would like a Pochita Vs V1 fight discussion. Maybe Kratos vs Record of Ragnarok Gods? Guts vs Geralt (even though the Witcher was originally a book). More I’m probably not thinking about at the moment. But you do you, I like these videos.

[@foryossimodicarbonio9703]

Yeah, I agree with this take on the matchup. Particularly on how the fight would go. I personally think Sukuna could win most of the fight scenarios if he was serious from the start, but he never is. Sukuna likes to play the long game with his opponents, figuring out their technique and strategies and then tearing them apart piece by piece. Like, if he played card games, he'd be the asshole who plays control and just drags on the fight for as long as he can. Not because he needs to, but because he wants to see ALL the cards in his opponent's deck, all his combos, all his interactions, and answer ALL OF THEM. So yeah, having an opponent who goes for the kill on sight, has pretty much equal stats and can just tank his attacks without slowing down would probably take him off-guard, especially if he treats him as a cursed spirit.

[@Geijin1]

This video was like a blessing for me. Someone that doesn’t glaze the fucking shit out of JJK

[@unnamedx2]

In shibuya wasn't just the domain, he used fuuga to pulverize that area

[@Blackjesus327]

I disagree. Sakunas lighting scaling puts him at the speed advantage. So even if pochita wants to end the fight faster, sakuna has the speed to not let that happen. Jjk also has better scaling then Mach 3 with feats. Like maki catching a bullet that put her at like Mach 20. Good will maki… sakuna is taking this.

[@liquid1514]

gege kinda retcon it because it wasn't his intention to make her that fast

[@francoborda826]

Also Sukuna just got Black Flash in the last chapter because... Why not I guess

[@Nick-bv1yc]

@@liquid1514 Gege admitted that "Mach 3" was a mistake in a Q&A

[@HeresyInquisitor]

@@liquid1514well clearly it was since kenjaku does the same thing in shibuya, then somehow maki gets blitzed by a Mach 3 attack? Which even Gege admits is inconsistent and more or less something that sounded cool

[@thiccboi3812]

​@@liquid1514you would be surprised to realise that in a new volume between Sukuna Vs maki and Yuji he actually drew a couple panels one of them is maki blocking lighting from nue mid air so indeed he actually felt mach 3 is stupid and inconsistent for maki

[@querty985]

This is too early, we need to see more from pochita, he was severly weakend against makima but now he's at his strongest, the falling devil was also weakend and she caused cave ins all over earth.

[@yoriichitsugikuni6346]

Let's say this pochita was the lore version in which he literally is on par with some of the primal fears that were literally feared much more and were close to transcendence and had managed to escape although being weakened. Then, face him with a demon for personality who also does the same, minus the facing of transcendent beings. I suppose we all could tell who would be winning right here.

[@erthsda6758]

To be honest if we use Pochitas lore, He fucking slams and its not at all close. If he was fighting the entirety of the Four Horsemen, only relevant one is Death. Death was stated to be the strongest devil, so Death would scale above Darkness/Falling, Darkness was capable of enveloping hell in absolute Darkness (although we dont know how big hell is) and the Falling Devil was capable of causing Global Catastrophe. Pochita was basically outright stated to have devoured the Nuclear Weapons devil which would probably one shot JJK, they arent surviving Nuclear Bombs but back to the Death Devil. Im convinced the Death Devil would be superior to the Gun Devil in terms of speed especially when the Darkness Devil was stated to have a larger threat than "Just some Gun Devil" and if Pochita was fighting the Death Devil he should be superior in speed compared to the Gun Devil anyway. This was a lot of lore based claims but idm if Pochita is carried by his lore.

[@sageoverheaven]

15F Sukuna can literally spam mini nuke tier fire arrows. The one that nuked Makora was about ¼ of the Hiroshima nuke 💀 Not to mention, AP should be a different ball game altogether. Megumi vs Dagon domain clash basically proved that domains work on energy output, and that there's a real kickback to domains clashing which affects the physical body of the caster. Extrapolating this, every domain expansion needs the user to have the durability to tank the energy required to create the internal structures. Curses like Jogo and Dagon can create mountains and islands, but get diced by Dismantle. You can even leave out domain scaling and use Yuki's Black Hole to get Tengen's Barrier and Yuki's own output individually to lowballed multi-continental (The Black Hole itself was calc'd at Star Level, but Tengen and Yuki go on to limit its destructive capability to the Tomb of the Star, which is a large building complex at best).

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

​@@sageoverheaven Prove he can spam it. And man's hyping up an attack that he himself calls a 'mini nuke' that is '¼ of the Hiroshima nuke' when the gun devil alone is carving through Japan in the small city ranges before being amped by fear.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

​@@sageoverheavenDomain clashes work based on refinement mg. 😑

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

​@@sageoverheavenIt effects the users because they just used a fuck ton of CE… it was never stated or shown the user needs to tank the energy to create the environment.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

​​@@sageoverheavenYuki doesn't scale because the attack used her life which massively amps the attack as shown with Mei Mei's bird strike. You don't know what Tengen did to suppress it or the energy needed to do that.

[@aymenlahfa234]

fun fact: Sukuna's shikigami scale relatively close to him + adapting takes only one or two hits if it isn't infinity sukuna can also hide in the shadows and use piercing water if he had ten shadows and so much more In the domain he can use cleave on poshita regardless of the power systems being equalised or not

[@wolfbrigade8042]

12:39 Wait, what? Sukuna himself does not acquire Mahoraga's adaptation/immunity when having the wheel over his head. When Sukuna has the wheel, he takes the hits that Mahoraga would need to adapt without needing Mahoraga to be out itself. I might have misunderstood that little part there but I hope you weren't implying that Sukuna himself could become immune to Pochita's attacks because that's not possible. Mahoraga could but not Sukuna himself.

[@thyentity6295]

I think he's talking about when Yorozu asked sukuna how when he beat her but he said I've already adapted to your technuiqe implying sukuns himself can take on the adaptation but mahoraga has to adapt to it first before it can be applied to him if mahoraga doesn't fully adapt then sukuna won't be able to apply the adaptation on himself, but it's really up to interpretation.

[@wolfbrigade8042]

@@thyentity6295 But Sukuna can't apply Mahoraga's immunity to himself, that's the thing. He can take the wheel and take hits for Mahoraga so he can adapt but he himself (Sukuna) is never immune to any of the enemy's attacks.

[@thyentity6295]

@@wolfbrigade8042 like I said it's up to interpretation I personally don't think sukuns gains the adaptation but he can take on damage to pass the adaptation onto mahoraga.

[@wolfbrigade8042]

@@thyentity6295 Yes exactly. That's what I'm saying. Sukuna takes the wheel and then takes damage FOR Mahoraga so that Maho can adapt without needing to fight himself.

[@blckotaku5250]

I heavily disagree with the domain expansion being a win condition just because we’ve seen gojo a guy who doesn’t even have the best healing in the verse shrug ms just by healing. Pochita durability and healing would just let him walk thru ms un scathed

[@RafaelSantos-cm9xy]

One thing i noticed you misunderstood about the wheel. Sukuna does not gain the benefits, only Mahoraga does it Also, Sukuna is a Blitz tier above lightning timer based on Maki (who dodged Nue's lightning) If we take Kashimo by the very lines, he is a lightning timer +, or a lightspeed boy. And he was manhandled and blitzed by Sukuna

[@teloprmepeterson1812]

btw sukuna once he heals him self. once kashimo launches one of his attacks at him sukuna does full chant and tells kashimo to dodge before cutting it in half and for aim dodging you wouldn't scale it it only if you and who you are fighting are of the same speed while kashimo (while sukuna was in that state was speed bitzing him) meaning kashimo was faster so he had to dodge the attack not where kashimo was aiming espesially cause it was point blank also gege 2 chapert extras mentioned that the mach 3-4 wasn't meant to be taken seriously

[@ginnungagapabyss5639]

Why would Sukuna even be interested in making the fight last? If anything Sukuna would feel insulted by his foe being far slower, a complete moron, with his only thing being to heal and cut. If Yuji was boring to Sukuna, CSM would piss him off for not only having similar traits to Yuji but having just a watered-down barbaric cutting attack making fun of his CT. Honestly, I see Sukuna treating him like his stalker by using the 10 shadows to test CSM, once he sees his speed Sukuna would just come from behind, rip out his heart, and eat it. If you're wondering how Sukuna would know to go for the heart, it's because we've seen time after time that Sukuna’s eyes or mind can gather information on the level of the six eyes, he would be aware that the negative energy that formed the devil is coming from the heart, after seeing the need for blood to heal from any injury, and how the hearts able to reform the body, Sukuna would just eat the heart. He's a cannibal why wouldn't he?

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

Negative energy doesn't come from the heart. The fear comes from other things. Pochita blitzes 🥱

[@ginnungagapabyss5639]

@@jackaboynaylor9273 it's laughable that you think that, but hey if you want to believe that, it does not bother me.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@ginnungagapabyss5639 If you use any EM scaling for Sukuna I just would massively up scale Pochita from the Justice devil moving relative to falling's gravity.

[@ginnungagapabyss5639]

@@jackaboynaylor9273 so I'm arguing with a child, good to know, now I can just ignore you.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@ginnungagapabyss5639 Bruh uses an ad hominem to disregard my comment 💀

[@kostas298]

Even if pochita's heart got destroyed, he would be reborn in hell stronger, so it's completely unfair for sukuna

[@MementoDespair]

outside of Domain Expansion Sukuna is cooked. He can't let Pochita reach him before pulling off a Domain.

[@salami_777]

Pochita should scale to characters like Yoru who has access to the nuclear weapons devil which is self-explanatory. Which should get her to Town-City Level. And this is consistent as she upscales from the Gun Devil who at 20% who was wiping out large portions of cities. So it’s around Town Level. Guns are the bare minimum requirement for a War, so she upscales from it narratively speaking. So this logic applies to the 100% Gun Devil which should be Large-City to Multi-City Level. We also have Makima damaging the Darkness Devil who is a primal fear. Primal fears are extremely powerful in the CSM verse. The Falling Devil in a weakened state was able to shift Earths gravity, causing cave-ins, landslides, and earthquakes around the ENTIRE planet just from her presence/existence alone. So it’s around Multi-continental. Makima scales to these beings who Pochita scales above. So he should consistently be Multi-Continental in pure Attack Potency. Denji was able to react and block Sonic booms from the Bat Devil which is Mach1.12-5 which is supersonic-supersonic+ btw. Makima was tagging this Denji in a H2H fight which should get her combat speeds to Hypersonic. And Pochita upscales from Makima. We also have Base Quanxi, perception blitzing the human eye which should be Mach10-20. And Makima blitzes Quanxi who Pochita upscales from. We also have Beam (Low-tier character) dodge an explosion from point-blank which was calc at Mach183 which is in the Low ends of Massively Hypersonic. The Hybrids should narratively scale above this. And Makima scales above Quanxi, Reze, and Denji who are the top-tiers of the hybrids. And Pochita upscales from Makima yet again. As for the Gun Devil calc, it was able to blitz 1.2mil people in a span of 5mins. And those timestamps were how long it took for the Gun Devil to travel across each country or continent. It blitzed Hawaii which has an area of 10,430km2 in 0.4 secs. Can shoot bullets which travel 500kilometers in 1 sec (3:18:25) Gun Devil shoots at Makima (3:18:26) bullets reach Makima. It’s stated beforehand that there is a 500kilometer distance between them. And can kill a large portion of Japans population in a 1,000-1,500m radius. These feats were calc at Mach1,483 which is MHS+ at 20% of its power. If you multiply these feats by 5, you’ll get it to Mach7,415 which is in the High ends of MHS+ and Yoru scales to this, who Pochita upscales from.

[@someguy4405]

Full power Pochita is like if Malevolent Shrine was a person.

[@randomyoutuber2633]

Another thing about Pochita is that he was weakened when he fought Makima a second time(the first time happened before he met Denji and he killed Makima many times) because everyone loved Chainsaw Man and weren't afraid of him anymore. He also ate the Star Devil and The Nuclear Weapons Devil, and most devils are stronger than the concept they based off of. An example of this is the Tomato Devil, which is way stronger than a tomato and can kill humans so the Star Devil should be way stronger than a normal star and the nuke devil should be stronger than a nuke. Makima also kinda scales to the Gun Devil, since she put her chains on the devils she had in a second before the Gun Devil attacked her and then she killed him, and Pochita and Makima reacted to eachother during their fight while Pochita was weakened. He also weakned Yoru when he fought the weapons devil and the horsemen. Pochita's regen is crazy and he did the healing from a heart when Makima shot him into space feat weakened.

[@ZenCakker]

12:42 no? It was never stated that sukuna can use mayorga's adaptation and if he could then he wouldn't need to summon him

[@CERISTHEDEV]

Yep wearing the wheel actually makes so that mahoraga does not need to get hit to adapt

[@Sacrificial_Salmon]

sukuna after turning pochita into mincemeat just for pochita to continue fighting

[@originalnoc]

9:51 also because pochita or makima are never stated to travel or move as fast as the gun devil, no wonder nothing could ever catch it, the gun devil has by far the fastest travel speed in the verse, and the highest attack potency csm fans after realizing falling devil's earthquakes isnt AP but HAX and nobody in the verse actually scales to her haxes (theyre also not useful in a fight)

[@ivann9924]

Sukuna can heal regen limbs, same as pochita but soccerer in JJK. None of them so far survives being cut in half. Pochita can regen from just the heart too. So it comes down to domain expansion vs chainsaws because putting Sukuna vs Pochita is like putting Sukuna vs Mahoraga with an unbreakable sword. Pochita should have enough durability to survive box though since Denji chainsaw form survives gun devil fiend and bomb girl and world slash wouldn't do more damage than regular cleave, also this might turn fully to pochita favor if the fear of chainsaw is at all time high. Nice video

[@sleepymilk6861]

good video, and I think a lot of this makes sense, but lets be real. The fact that Pochita can win is HEAVILY based on the idea that Sukuna doesn't go all out at the start. While I do see why, IU feel that's kind of just an excuse, plus, just because Pochita is going for an instant win while Sukuna wont be, doesn't mean that Sukuna will get any slower. If Sukuna can react to Kashimo, he can react to Pochita, light speed or not doesn't matter sense we are assuming they have similar speeds. I find it impossible for Sukuna to lose simply due to his hacks being far above Pochita. Sure, we could say that Sukuna is caught off guard by Pochita, but what's to say Sukuna cant use a basic Cleave/Dismantle and go for Pochita's heart. maybe I'm glazing Sukuna too much, but I simply don't believe Pochitaa wins unless we give Pochita an unfair advantage. Sorry for rambling, just wanted to get my point out there.

[@christinem1935]

If the only way to kill him is his heart, Wouldn’t fire arrow neg?

[@mingobingo4857]

I dont think Sukunas Shrine would even be much of a win condition, we see at least twice that characters can have enough physical durability to withstand the sure hit effect. If Itadori can walk through Malevolent Shrine. Im sure a true Pochita could as well. But thats just my opinion

[@bignoob2726]

👀 it's going to so sad for jjk fans when the csm scaling breaks through the roof. The problem with any CSM scaling is that there's barely any scaling to use for CSM only subjective scaling

[@Mr.goobergoofy]

Wait but wouldn’t the domain not hit him since it doesn’t work with ppl that have 0 cursed energy?

[@Not_melted_ice]

People with cursed energy get hot with cleave, objects with no cursed energy get hit with dismantle and dismantle is a fixed attack not like cleave were it adjust to the durability of a person.

[@unendingvoid]

I think Sukuna is going to struggle here when someone like Gojo is able to stand in his domain and tank it. The only thing I can see him using to do lasting damage to Pochita is the world slash if he lands it. Pochita has a significant speed advantage imo via more consistent scaling to blitzing characters who scale to MHS+ Giving this one to Chainsaw boy 7-8/10 times

[@Blackjesus327]

Gojos durability>>>>>>>. With scaling from Dagon gojo would easily have at least island level durability. Just healing isn’t enough. Pochita doesn’t have the durability to handle sakunas domain or even his base slashes.

[@unendingvoid]

@@Blackjesus327 Domain scaling is dogshit and should never be used. Even VSBW dropped domain scaling lmao and they're notorious for misinterpretations. It's been said many times in JJK whatever is manifested in there is of no real importance and is primarily symbolic. Dagon's domain has a fucking star inside of it, use your head

[@dr.random1793]

Isn't every Chainsaw Man character vulnerable to slashing and piercing attacks? The spear devil hybrid was able to easily pierce Pochita and every top tier are still vulnerable to regular bullets like Falling devil

[@Nick-bv1yc]

Gojo survived Sukuna's DE cuz his RCT is insanely fast. If u think that Pochita's regeneration is as fast as if not faster than Gojo's regeneration (I highly doubt it), then he could survive Sukuna's DE But if Sukuna decides to nuke Pochita with the Fire Arrow, it's over for Pochita

[@unendingvoid]

@@Nick-bv1yc Why are we assuming that Pochita is just going to be hit by all this when CSM high tiers operate at speeds that exceed JJK's best and fight at distances that makes Malevolent Shrine's Radius look tiny. Pochita is literally going to kick Sukuna across the city and his shrine is not going to do a thing because his regen is strong enough to heal out of only his heart and go through atmospheric entry without any issues

[@Yujinofriends]

I didn’t read the new jjk manga but Sukuna has a “new” domain and two or less new moves

[@6Denji9]

We should all know that we never ever have seen the full power of Pochita or Darkness or any other strong devil like War devil. They are all nerfed or just havent shown their full power. I bet it will be very strong the fight between The Death devil...

[@needacharger3054]

Sukuna dodges it as it’s shot meaning the attack was already shot out and he reacted to it and moved before it landed. Making him ftl+, also since his dismantle cuts space time, he’d just cut his body and it’ll just be erased, like he did with Kashimo just make an inescapable wall of space cutting slashes the decimated him. Sukuna still wins.

[@Bluehound178]

The descaling of the sukuna speed is just funny and just sounds like cope sukuna is a lot faster than light😂

[@justsquaro1989]

Also when we first saw the hero of hell wasn't he weakened off the bat? Due to his popularity and people not fearing him

[@Future_Cat23]

Not fully only after makima changed everyone’s minds

[@justsquaro1989]

Not sure she did. I just thought he became a media sensation naturally. Mainly due to makima putting him in the public eye over the public safety arc. And reze helped too lol

[@Future_Cat23]

@@justsquaro1989 no the public didn’t fully know csm and makima changed their Maine’s to weaken pochita

[@justsquaro1989]

Where does it say that? I'm pretty sure the public already knew about him it's mentioned a few times, especially with the reze arc. It's hard to believe she just changed everyone's mind in one fell swoop. It was her plan all along to give chainsawman attention I don't think she forced it

[@knines6279]

Don’t forget about sukuna’s furnace attack

[@varenwilson1514]

People don't usually associate Sukuna with light speed because of dodging that electromagnetic wave. It more comes from the part where Sukuna fully incarnated and then, sees an electromagnetic wave, speaks while it is coming towards him, and then cuts it in half. Also Angel reacting to a bullet isn't a concrete statement because he moves his wing before the gun fires, so he was just pre-protecting Aki.

[@unruffled_bot]

Sukuna vs denji makes a lot of sense even tho yuji version of dismantle is stronger he is not faster and doesn't have any really good defence

[@reasonablequit7535]

you know whats even more horrifying about pochita? is that it was stated that pochita had killed primal devils before

[@MrZlocktar]

If Sukuna and Chainsaw devil would be in direct confrontation, Sukuna would have a chance to survive at least for awhile. But if you read JJK you know that all strong characters died to surprise attacks or when opponent outplayed them. And if you read CSM you would know that there is no such thing as power scale. In which case whoever is fighting Sukuna could say "Save me Chainsaw Man" and Sukuna will be instantly killed with no time for reaction. And then the summoner will be killed as well. Both characters would die if one of them summoned Chainsaw Man.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

1:58 Ryu's granite blast is calced up to small town and b Ryu can take his own granite blasts thrown at him by Uro. Sukuna one shot this same Ryu, so his slashes AP should be in the low to mid end of town. His fire arrow is cacled in the city ranges or supposedly even mountain (apparently) from the anime. Therefore fire arrow >> his slashes.

[@justawildgengar]

Fire arrow didn’t do shi in the manga though. DC sukuna is like city level max. AP bro is planetary or a lil higher though at least with world slash of course

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@justawildgengar It vaporized Mahoraga… Sukuna isn't anywhere near planetary. Sukuna doesn't scale to Yuki's black hole because it used her life to make it. The life of a SPECIAL GRADE SORCERESS! To put that into perspective, the life of a CE amped crow from Mei Mei that is still considered relatively normal can ONE SHOTS SPECIAL GRADE CURSES! It was already implied her birds could hurt a nerfed true form Sukuna as well. Volume statements of his fingers having the power to destroy the world is either hyperbole or regarding the countries of the world and the fact they don't have methods to exorcise a finger bearer, making them unstoppable if that was their goal.

[@justawildgengar]

@@jackaboynaylor9273 well yeah cause mahoraga was already adapting to the slashes but had never seen the fire arrow. Also sukuna and Gojo shouldn’t be compared to the other special grades lol. Sukuna even made fun of that saying all special grades are apparently places in the same category as him. He was laughing at you lol Also I said sukunas AP is planetary due to world slash. His DC isn’t anywhere close to planetary. I don’t bring up the statements about the fingers. We also don’t know how Yukis black hole would interact with world slash as there’s no real world basis for that. You can’t split a black hole as the gravity would just keep it together. However since it was able to cut through Gojos infinity maybe that means World slash would be able to take/delete mass off of the black hole with his space slash. Either that or it will just mess with the event horizon and look kinda like Uros sky manipulation before it also gets eaten by the black hole.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@justawildgengar It took hits from Sukuna's slashes before adapting to adapt in the first place! While his fire arrow just one shot the guy. Fire arrow >> slashes like I said.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@justawildgengar Your acting like the weakest special grade curse is comparable to a sorcerer that is even stronger than a special grade Sorcerer in output and reinforcement.

[@mcnuggetsauce1851]

In a world with hack abilities on par with JJK hacks, Pochita reigns supreme with nothing but slashing attacks. To the point that a hacked out the ass character like Makima considered winning hopeless at one point. Idk who wins, but that's scary.

[@Ilovefriedchickenwatermelon]

Can you please Answer my question of Lucifer Morningstar vs Gojo. Me and my friend kept arguing about who would win and I think it would be gojo but my friend thinks it’s Lucifer. Can you answer this question?

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

💀

[@yoriichitsugikuni6346]

Lucifer washes, no questions asked.

[@SaltySodium_Man]

My balls washes both of them (literall)​@@yoriichitsugikuni6346

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

Didn't conclude low end Sukuna be mach 6. Smth while Pochita is well abovd hypersonic?

[@Future_Cat23]

13:40 didn’t you literally just scale pochita to above subsonic and your saying pochita blitzes Sukuna ? When again you mid scaled him to mhs

[@yolandaholleycarwell687]

I think that the electro magnetic waves that sukuna dodged was a little misjudged when you said sukuna might have realised it before it came out but he must scale too the speed of light if he can react too something on a speed of light scale with all due respect too be able too react too the speed of light you need too be the speed of light or faster then it too react or dodge it because if it was any other person or jujutsu sorcerer trying too dodge the attack they will be blitz immediately even before they realized they got hit and another thing too confirm my theory is that the move was at point-blank range where anybody would've gotten dunked on in that very moment and don't forget that was a version of sukuna that was on life support so his speed strength and hax was drained by alot so he will probably be put at MFTL at full power in my opinion you can put all the hate on me you want I don't care but I stand with my theory:)

[@Osamabeenladan]

Sukuna did his domain expansion on a finger barrer that he one shot I think he would win

[@Flepsons5552]

It would really just be Sukuna against a hyper-sonic makora

[@therealseam]

could gojo beat a baby next!?!?!?!?

[@Lorendrawn]

If you bite off Sukuna's hand mid battle do you transform into a 5 finger level sukuna unless your strength of will is sufficient

[@justawildgengar]

No that’s only if you’re like 1 in a billion or whatever. Yuji was made to be sukunas vessel and megumi got lucky. If you ate sukunas hand to try and take his cursed energy it would just be a poison that kills you lol

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

His cursed energy isn't all focused into his fingers as a vessel. That is something he would have to choose to do.

[@Darth_Bateman]

Wait, what's Pochita's real name? Dennis named him Pochita, right?

[@Obelg]

9:04 Easily react to bullets? Bitch, it took a second for that guy to first stand around and then aim at Angel. Like 50% of mach 1-10 feats and most lightning timer feats in power scaling is just aim dodging

[@Gojoover-_-]

What if pochita eats him but gets possessed somehow (this is just a joke scenario)

[@brassbeast8582]

so basically, pochito wins if theyre in character, but sukuna wins bloodlusted cuz his abilities are better

[@justawildgengar]

Sukuna is kinda always bloodlusted tho It’s in character for bro to just do what needa get done

[@atleast1x3]

Quick saying to the 5x faster than ls feat of sukuna he dogged once on a point blank rage after knowing what the electromagnetic waves were and being prepared and if you low ball that to sukuna was at 20% that scales sukuna a bit below 25X faster than light and if midball to 10% then 50X and if 5% 100X also, if your using pochitas bs lore (Mr i ate star) than sukuna is stated to be planetary by other methods.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

Where are these arbitrary percentages coming from? 💀

[@atleast1x3]

@@jackaboynaylor9273 Which ones the 10% 20% 5% are the possible percentage sukuna was on after gojos beating.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@atleast1x3 No, he was at around half his total energy since Yuta admitted Sukuna has twice the energy he does with Sukuna admitting his cursed energy is around that of Yuta's.

[@atleast1x3]

@@jackaboynaylor9273 Yuta said that sukuna had twice he's cursed energy but in which chapter did sukuna say that he had around yuta cursed energy.

[@cyryah3972]

Pochita eats mahoraga

[@Causality01]

He just forgot one thing: Pochita is immortal. Makima herself said that even when he died, he always pulled the rope in his chest and came back to life, as if nothing had happened.

[@NoIdeas529]

i'd have to say that in my personal opinion sukuna outscales and while it would be a near-assured win for sukuna it wouldn't be a complete stomp either...i'd say mid maybe high diff on a good day

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

2:36 Isn't that just a feat for spear guy? And Reze's DC isn't comparable to her AP, and we know it's at least above building. The lowest the bat devil blast has been put at his large building if I recall correctly and Aki can take much less damage from Katana man than Denji who ate this. Aki then confirms Reze would've one shot him if he made one wrong move, therefore her bombs AP >> large building. Hybrids should scale above devils like typhoon who can create clouds in the city ranges, especially considering Denji can overpower DD amped Santa DD being a god tier in the verse. (Other hybrids show to be comparable to Denji both before and after)

[@inumakisenpai]

It doesn’t really matter since it was said Pochita was weak here due to not being feared by people. This is essentially his weakened form and not even his base.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@inumakisenpai Maybe to a little extent but it on really kicked in later

[@nonenone-hv5iq]

Disagreed with your conclusion. Sukuna’s true form uses the world cutting slash in direct reaction to an EMW, cutting it in half, remember? We also see Kenjaku tank multiple seconds within a black hole(past the even horizon) before cancelling it with his anti-gravity system, and that same kenjaku hid behind a 15 finger sukuna when gojo was released. If sukuna were less durable that would make no sense. So, sukuna is more durable than we ever see pochita do anything close to. We also know sukuna has attacks more powerful than that black hole(since world cutting slash does more damage than things like hollow purple which kenjaku is terrified of), let alone shrine. Pochita gets absolutely slammed if we’re talking about true form or 20 finger sukuna.

[@ahmadkazan5473]

Not yuki absolutely yelling at kejaku that she's becoming a black hole giving him anple time to use his technique,light speed feats have been debunked and he never used the slash to cancel kashimo's attacks he dodged where kashimo was aiming and kashimo stopped fighting after busting a nut to sukuna's hiean form.Gojo tanked malevolent shrine and march 3 characters are dodging the world cutting slashes,pochita is massively faster and stronger sukuna won't have room to use hax

[@nonenone-hv5iq]

@@ahmadkazan5473 chief his technique has a handsign, he didn’t use it. You’re just illiterate. And no, in 238, he directly cancelled the attack with a world slash. Again, you’re just illiterate. And gojo didn’t tank shit. Hell, even with slower attacks than the ones used in shibuya, gojo was repeatedly cut clean through. Again, illiterate. And no mach 3 character ever dodged a world slash. 2 Characters have dodged one without warning, and neither is confirmed mach anything. That’s maki and miguel, both of which got hyper buffed since their initial appearances. Your “debunks” are blatantly retarded.

[@nonenone-hv5iq]

@@ahmadkazan5473 he didn’t use his technique there, irrelevant. No, they haven’t. Did you read my comment? Do so. And yes, he did. Read 238, which I would know you probably can’t since you can’t read a comment either. Gojo never tanked shrine. He instantly regenned slashes which went clean through his entire body. Ponchita, however, still needs his heart to live. Fully intact too. Nothing says those characters are mach 3 anymore either, given we know world slash is FTL from him cutting the EMW with it in 238. Pochita is no where near any of this. Your arguments are blatantly invalid.

[@The_Omnipotent_Lurk]

@@nonenone-hv5iqcompletely head cannon about pochita, Sukuna stated himself a simple Hollow Purple is fatal to him and no, nowhere is it stated that HP erases matter that’s head cannon. The War Devil uses literally nukes my guy and Pochita fought against her and survived. There is no scenario in which Sukuna beats Pochita‘s Durability, that’s laughable lmfao when the guy can get fatally wounded by one normal hollow purple so cope more 🤣

[@nonenone-hv5iq]

@@The_Omnipotent_Lurk bullshit. Read pochita vs makima. He regenerates from his heart, not from nothing. Kenjaku tanked a black hole but cannot tank a purple. You ignoring the series to downplay it is irrelevant. Nor did sukuna ever die to a purple, not even while already half dead In a weaker body. Once again, your downplay is irrelevant to the conversation. Kinda embarrassing to have to strawman and straight up lie to not even win but attempt to win an argument though lmao.

[@aymenlahfa234]

Sukuna's punches scale to plantery ap He is pretty much solar system level and no diffs the csm verse and speed blitzes it

[@Distix-uz8qr]

Never “cook “ again

[@aymenlahfa234]

@@Distix-uz8qr i did not cook lil bro, i SERVED

[@Distix-uz8qr]

@@aymenlahfa234 buddy poisoned the guests 😭

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

10:35 Does it really matter if Makima scales to the gun devil's speed? Pochita should scale regardless for being consistently the strongest devil.

[@ZenithAniManga]

It kinda does matter. With most power systems, power tends to distribute evenly. Like a more powerful character will be faster, stronger, more durable. But that doesnt seem to be the case with devil power. Makima is the classic example. She can go down from gunshots while having enough power to content with the darkness devil.

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@ZenithAniManga That's more of a problem with weapons in CSM. Attacks with some sort of slashing or piercing aspect are able to hurt characters despite scaling much higher than bullet level. Aki getting stabbed. The entire gang getting shot. Quanxi getting shot. Fami getting shot. Denji getting cut. Kiga believing she'd be ripped to shreds by turrets. It doesn't necessarily mean they have bad durability just that chainsaw man characters don't have resistance to these attacks with few exceptions that can still get hurt by similar attacks. Like Asa or Pochita which are the only examples I can think of.

[@rainbows_edge]

​​@@jackaboynaylor9273fami could be lying and death is stronger than pochita

[@jackaboynaylor9273]

@@rainbows_edge Why would she be lying? Pochita fought death + three other horsemen scaling him above each individually. Death should only be the strongest rn due to chainsaw man being seen as a hero with that changing only recently.

[@rainbows_edge]

@jackaboynaylor9273 ? Why would famine need both yoru and pochita to fight death and famine said not even chainsaw man could beat death also prime yoru has beaten prime pochita who scales below death fami is clearly manipulating asa we can clearly see a weaker yoru tank Yoshida's sword and be comparable or above to base quanxi who tanked bullets

[@OK-69420]

Powerwise Sukuna Plotwise Pochita

[@akumatenshi8841]

Quick reminder that Sukuna hasn't actually used his full power in the series, not even against Gojo

[@TheAtomicVoid1]

You've got to do Saitama vs. gojo Unstoppable force vs Immovable object

[@jamesescondo708]

Saitama would easily win, its not even a debate

[@TheAtomicVoid1]

@jamesescondo708 Yeah, but how would he even one punch gojo

[@jamesescondo708]

@@TheAtomicVoid1 simple, he'll just destroy the planet with one punch and gojo wouldnt be able to breathe in space LOL (if ur gonna take out the humanity side of both of them so they won't be holding back)

[@TheAtomicVoid1]

@jamesescondo708 Yeah, that's true when he was fighting garou he was about to destroy the planet

[@yoriichitsugikuni6346]

​@TheAtomicVoid1 he bypasses anything super natural (I think) so it's probably gonna be like how Saitama is immune to esper powers, maybe he could also bypass infinity due to the immunity?

[@Future_Cat23]

Probably one of the best scaling video for these two I’ve seen and ignore the csm dogs crying about the scaling they just can’t accept reality also keep up the good work and thanks for saying at the end it’s just your take 👍

[@fallingdevilglazer]

Pochita eats cursed energy devil and Goatanaman solos😂😂

[@Future_Cat23]

@@fallingdevilglazer what did I say 🤣🤣🤣🤣 yup your biased asf and pochita can’t eat cursed energy

[@Future_Cat23]

@@fallingdevilglazer and fodderman is a Miwa victim lmao

[@fallingdevilglazer]

@@Future_Cat23 what😭😭

[@fallingdevilglazer]

@@Future_Cat23 He will eat cursed energy devil, Since people are afraid of cursed energy, it will also have a devil (dinner for existence eraserman) and Pochita can completely erase the concept and make it forgetten and manipulate reality. Pochita ate the nuclear bomb devil to weaken Yoru(war), so we know he ate concepts to weaken his opponents. Just accept JJK verse is Katanaman victim at this point.

[@Sir_Arsene]

Great video Zenith. Though i would like to say thag i disagree with some of your claims about speed. For Sukuna, there is a canonical speed cap that no character has exceeded. And that is not having the reaction speeds necessary to land a black flash consistently. That's calculated to be about mach 400. While i personally don't think Sukuna reaches those speeds, he could reasonably be in the mach 6-400 range. As for Pochita, I believe his speed is being heavily underscaled. For the Makima bullet thing, i agree that there isn't reason to think she's fast enough to dodge it. But she did undeniably react to it. As shown by the fact that in the panel right after the 500km/s bullet was fired at het, she activated her ability to counter it. Quite clearly shown that she doesn't activate it until after he fires, despite being aware of his intentions and being able to at anytime. So, when Makima can't even follow or react to Pochita's movements whatsoever, it is more than fair to say he is over mach 1400 himself. Additionally, there is another major speed feat for Pochita. And that is blocking the 1000 year spear. A spear that went so fast that it not only generated light, but also caused a rift in space. A literal rift in space. For something to be capable of that with sheer speed and force, it would have to be at least light speed. Now, is Pochita light speed. 100% not. I am not even fonna pretend he is. After all, he covered significantly less distance than it and wasn't able to fully move out of the way. But, even if you low ball the distance he moved compared to the spear, he covered at least 1/40th-1/50th of the distance it covered in the same time. This would put him at sub relavistic speeds. But does this fit within other feats in the series? Yeah, here's why. The gun devils's mach 1469 bullet feat was only a fifth of it's total potential. Multiply that by 5, and you get like mach 7346.5. which is almost sub relavistic. And since Primals have been stated to be on a different tier than the gun devil, it's reasonable to assume that primals could potentially be sub relavistic. And Pochita was able to keep up with the Death devil, the strongest devil of all. Speaking of primals, the falling devil literally used gravity to attack. She was shown to be able to shoot gravitational attacks. Gravity waves travel at low relavistic speeds. And this was while the falling devil was weaker than usual. So Pochita being sub-relavistic wouldn't be a stretch whatsoever. Especially since in his only fight, he was not only getting progressively weaker, but only got hit by sneak attack or when he was immobile. So it would still fit within the context of the story. In a nutshell, Pochita speedblitzes