Zenless Zone Zero Is Secretly TERRIBLE for F2P?

[@tobi8445]

The pace feels right to me; it's funny how some folks are already rushing to the finish line in a game that's only been out for a month.

[@ImproperStandby]

They gotta get content and their grinds and then complain later down the line.

[@Ch40ticC4su4l]

@tobi8445 Totally agree. To get the most out of the game, I pace myself and hold onto commissions to ensure a steady stream of rewards. This way, I avoid burning through content too quickly and ending up with nothing left to do. With plenty of missions, errands, and agent stories still to tackle, I can keep playing without getting stuck. It's all about perspective - some might say I'm playing it too safe, “throttling” my progression, but I'd rather enjoy the game at my own pace than rush through and hit a wall. For me, it's about finding a balance that keeps the game fun and engaging. Like you said, it’s only been out for a month 😅

[@tpnphoenix3367]

Shit I just reached lvl 20 I'm not finna play 8hrs a day and then complain bcz I played 80hrs of content in 2 weeks lol I play at a slow pace and enjoy the game😊

[@tuxtron1025]

Instant grafication do be fking people over.

[@Emma5s]

fact im day one player at level 48 right now my characters are lv 50

[@jeffcarrier9808]

See KZbin? This is what quality Gacha content looks like. No Drama. No Reactions. Just critical analysis of the GAMES.

[@sebastianadellQ]

As a tectone,mtashed,gachasmack and pokke viewer i agree i dont even watch them in the moment because for all the dumb drama have been around for no reason is annoying

[@wickedfuctup]

Tectone gets on my nerves. He's like a woman at the beauty salon yipping about bulshit

[@thegray0]

what critical analysis you talking about? speaking lightly of the gacha system when it's the nightmare like there's nothing out there to compare that system to but hoyo games. 1- you can lose the 50/50 on feature banner and for f2p / low and mid spenders getting those 70 summons takes a lot of time. 2- you can also lose the 50 /50 at pity rate on weapon banner. 3- regular banner only the first discounted hero is guaranteed to be S hero, after that you can get engines only at every pity rate up until summon number 400 were you get selector. i'll assume the guy made the video had no clue but this game not only nightmare to f2p but also low and mid spenders.

[@jeffcarrier9808]

@@thegray0 It's still not drama. I wasn't commenting on his accuracy etc. Just that it is actually about the games.

[@tenstonehearts]

Mainly pokke nowadays bro starts and instigates 😂

[@peacockterumi528]

Bruh and add the fact genshin like to hard day lock their character skill books and weapon upgrade materials, I have nothing but respect for anyone who set out to do a grind for a genshin character.

[@itriyum]

For new players thats a bad thing, but for old players thats no problem since most of them probably have fragile resin saved up

[@peacockterumi528]

@@itriyum it still annoyance even for vets, because if you want to work on character skill or weapon and just isn't that day, that a whole day you are lock out of farming for that particular part of a character you want to work on. I would agree that it lessened as you get further into the game because you went from possible four to now one character at a time, but it's still like mild annoyance logging on, wanting to work on kokomi skills or weapon, only to find out it not the day for one if not both than I have to figure out something else to work on. This is why I also prefer zzz, because why they do have prefer days to go after certain things with the coffee bonuses, it doesn't stop you from farming them for a day. Yeah you got fragile resin to use them for said farm later, but that still like a day you have to wait. But this is just the worst case, and not like you can't go and farm other stuff, but still suck you go in with a game plan and can't do said game plan because it just so happens to not be the day for it.

[@alejandroalfaro3800]

​@@peacockterumi528That sounds more like a way to justify poor planning, which is something the game wants you to do on the long run. Maybe you can't farm Freedom books until the next day. Then just save that condensed resin, wait for the next day, spend it and then you have the refreshed resin to either keep going or do other things in the meantime.Maybe you can just farm other books for a different character, something that feels more reasonable to do with the introduction of Imaginarium Theatre. If not, then you can go farm artifacts or EXP, which aren't day locked. Sure, I can see new players struggling with this at first, but we vets will never have to face that problem, because starting with much less resin to work with forced us to always take into account how we spend it.

[@illuminatannunak]

​@@alejandroalfaro3800 maybe that's an absolutely coping way of thinking of yours? If I WANT to play the SINGLE PLAYER PVE game however I WANT and whenever I WANT, then maybe I should? Oh no no no, I should be waiting for everything, for my resin to top up, for the correct day of the year and correct phase of the moon to farm what I need, for the event to farm gems... et cetera et alia ad infinitum. This game is just locking you out of everything allowing you to play the way you want for 1 hour per day at maximum if that's a good day of course. Genshin is a scam and that's why I stopped playing. I can just boot up Skyrim or elden ring and play however and how much I want without being told I'm out of resin or that the flower I need for crafting or leveling up will respawn in 3 days.

[@ThyFloorestFloor]

​@@peacockterumi528Had that issue because the days I could farm, usually fell around the days I had to work or go to class and work on my homework and after school activities. Meaning the days I could put time to enjoy Genshin, were the days I could not farm for materials.

[@TheDark78MC]

btw correct me if i'm wrong but I think zzz has preset values for substats in the disk drives meaning you can't roll a high value or a low value.

[@iflgames3245]

that great about them.

[@AespaKatarina]

even better

[@comrad3892]

And visual plus numbers on what stats you rolled

[@Rat_Fบcker]

yeah i feel like this is the case thank god i farm artifact 2 entire patch before raiden release to the day i quit last year and my atifact is still mid at best here i already got solid set for Ellen and Jane

[@DaedLizrad]

Yes, kinda. 3 out of the 6 drive slots have a set main stat, then you can initially roll a 3 or 4 substat item, and then leveling them up seems to randomly level the substats a few times. This is based solely on my observations.

[@ghostcat9588]

It's always important to play just for fun and not get competitive. That said, getting C6 Nicole and C6 Ben for trying to pull Zhu Yuan seems pretty F2P friendly to me.

[@chi3fmarz]

Fr bruh compared to wuwa i have 2 copies or mortefi in over 300 pulls 💀

[@rikudouray]

​@@chi3fmarz300 pulls? My brotha crying over a male character than a max out changli 😂

[@chi3fmarz]

@@rikudouray 150 for changli cos loat 50/50 and another 150 earlier for jiyan coz 50/50. And just checked actually only got 1 mortefi the other was from the beginner banner 💀

[@bjornnilsson2941]

damn, I was only able to get Nicole to c4 😭 and like c8 Ben. Really sucks cause Nicole's c6 is so damn good for Zhu Yuan. Oh well I'll get her eventually. Having only two A-ranks rated up does help a lot in targeting their dupes. I got Zhu Yuan at 44 pity and then her c1 in the next ten pull so I'm not complaining about the final outcome!

[@ghostcat9588]

@@bjornnilsson2941 I think I also got 8 Bens😆

[@happinintendo]

I think ZZZ is free to play friendly as long as you’re not too anal on getting perfect artifacts

[@atles300]

Competitive spirit has entered the chat😊

[@DanielSantos-ym8vd]

Another thing to consider is that genshin makes you do inane collection of hundredth fucking flowers and other items found in the side of a mountain which you need for every single character.

[@itriyum]

A open world gacha requires you to go out on the open world to collect resources? No way!!

[@DanielSantos-ym8vd]

@@itriyum it doesn't mean the system has to be insufferable.

[@grass7560]

@@DanielSantos-ym8vdbut it’s not. You just don’t like the open world aspect lmao

[@hamutasa3]

just don't fcking play open world games bro. as simple as that

[@digadeh]

life is going to be hard for you if you can't tolerate just a fkin flower collecting, Daniel.

[@AespaKatarina]

It's a lot easier to build characters in this game (talking about disk drives aka artifacts in genshin) because they give you a calibrator which let you pick a specific main stat. You get like, 3 of those every month just by clearing battlepass, doing hollow zero and also exchanging shiyu defense currency from the store which is pretty good for f2p imo. You get a lot of free pulls from doing story quest and side quests but after you've cleared them all, it does get pretty hard to get more pulls and you have to wait for events

[@Balbaneth]

I went to pity twice in 1.0 with a lot to spare

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

ok but real question, how do you get normal tapes frequently without using polychromes?

[@pcdeltalink036]

Biggest change I would like to see is the 300 pull on standard banner for a selectable S rank should be repeated. I had no idea it was a one time choice. And frankly, 300 pulls is dang well enough you ought to be able to choose one at that point. Either that or remove S rank W drives to their own thing (like the banner one for the premium banner character). Nothing more depressing than pulling an S rank and it’s a freaking ball.

[@brendonprophette8890]

Why tf did you spend on standard banner

[@Azteck9]

​@brendonprophette8890 maybe he didnt want or already got Ellen. Nothing wrong with tryna collect his 300th character. I really wanted Grace and Koleda, but game gave me 1 Soldier 11 and both S tier Stun weapons. I still chose Grace but now I'm forced to 50/50s, keep rolling on the 300 or wait until they do a free 5* selector like Genshin just did.

[@nairav9156]

The nice thing about ZZZ is aswel you only need your DPS maxed so that they can do their job, DPS, it's very viable to have the supporting cast leagues of level below.

[@matchbox7068]

It's weird, I struggled to read your comment despite it being 100% grammatical.

[@darkflames9]

I mean, that's literally how it is in every gacha when you start out; you always invest in your dps first, but when things get harder, yeah you'll need to bring everyone up.

[@renaparker8323]

A lot of people keep forgetting to emphasize this, but with 3-character teams (and thus needing 6 total for Shiyu Defense), all the grinds are basically reduced by 25% compared to games where you need 4/8 characters so factoring that in significantly improves f2p-friendliness

[@SoulHydron]

thats a good point

[@Krezmor]

Also, if you're more competitive the disc main and sub stats system is REALLY good and if i'm not mistaken you can reroll BOTH of them with some items. The game also takes surprisingly more skill than other Hoyo games and at least for now you can 100% the MAIN STORY and a few shiyu defenses (If not all in the future) with 0 trouble using a f2p friendly team. (Yes, ZERO trouble)

[@SplittedCorn]

You don't roll a high value or low value stats whenever you farm or roll discs so that's literally make building characters a lot less frustrated.

[@Senseisbinah]

Also, you'd only need to max raise everything for your DPS only, since the supports and stunners can make do with their main skill, stat upgraded

[@TheCapitalWanderer]

​​@@Krezmorcan confirm, beaten Act 1 and Act 2 with just the Cunning Hares

[@LordNarkham]

I'm playing ZZZ completely free since around the official launch, so about a month give or take. At characters level 40, I was already doing Shiyu defense (the towers) and getting rewards from it. At characters level 50, my DPS have their disks (artifacts) all locked in and pretty damn close to ideal, and I'm getting S rank (Max rewards) from 4 out of the 7 rotating nodes, the other 3 being 2 A ranks and one B rank. And I'm having a blast going into Withering Gardens trying to beat all the challenges there. You don't NEED everything maxed out to do well. As long as you allocate resources intelligently, and understand how to play to your team's strengths, you can do really really well. It's very very very very hard for me to complain about this game right now.

[@al8704]

You're legit one of the most honest, wholesome and real gacha content creators on KZbin.

[@xiaoandyoimiyasimp3193]

Just wanted to mention that while it takes 20 more energy to farm relic/artifact/disc drive in ZZZ it also doesn't have RNG in the value of the substats unlike the other two games which makes it close to impossible to minmax their gear, while it is much more plausible in ZZZ

[@edhikurniawan]

10 days for Genshin Artifact? No way, i spent half year and still didn't have the perfect crit and crit damage combination.

[@robotoboy30]

There is a skill check in Zenless's late game stuff. People just don't really understand how it works. A lot of people have condensed the actual gameplay of the game into Spam Rotation > Hit Dodge > Hit Counter. There is a bit more to that, and it even applies on bosses.

[@unboundking9742]

I think I'm like. IK47? And IK50ish is the last relevant rank for unlocking the final tier of farmable resources? It's been barely more than a month. I feel like it took a lot longer in both HSR and Genshin to get to this point. I can start getting the maximum rewards and build characters a lot faster in ZZZ, it feels like. Only having teams of 3 makes it feel even faster to build out a roster to the point where I'm already working on different teams while in GI and HSR I was still focusing down on a single team of 4 even in the 40s, iirc. Like I've already built Anby, Nicole, Zhu, Rina, Anton, Soukaku, Ellen, Soldier 11 and Lucy up to 45(Support) or 50(DPS) and gotten relevant Skills for each person to the current max(9). And now I'm looking at Piper and Corin for Physical to tide me over until Jane Doe. It also helps that the Music Shop lets you spend like double the initial cost to manually make a specific drive, similar to HSR's relic remains. Like I can use 6 tuners instead of 3 on a 5* Disc Drive and specify I want a Disc Drive 1 or 2 or whatever, and just get 3 easy pieces of any given set that way, since Drive 1, 2, and 3 are static main stats. Makes filling out 2pc sets a lot easier since I can alternate off-pieces for those 3 slots easily based on whatever sets Drive 4, 5, and 6 are on when they get the right main stat. Like if I get good Ether pieces for Drive 4, 5, and 6. I can just make the 2pc Crit set for slots 1 and 3 and an Ether piece for slot 2. Quick and easy. It's stuff like that which makes me feel like building units is a lot more intuitive in ZZZ than previous Hoyo games.

[@Red_Throat_Bird]

Interesting data. With events those numbers are reduce by a little bit. I feel it on Zenless when a build a character, its ways less time than genshin (I dont know hsr, I quit after 1 month). Ppl seems to not learn at all, each gacha debut its the same ... when you start an account you have to build multiple characters (6-8) but when your account have 2/4years you just need to build the last character pulled and you do it in a instant because of the resources accumulation (events mainly) and the fact that you dont pull every banner.

[@13thdarkness3]

in genshin it feels okey to let units stay at lvl 80( 10 lvls under max) unlike star rail and zzz

[@izuyamakino833]

not that really big of a deal compared to the plethra of issues that genshin has.

[@MauveButterfly]

Of the games mentioned here I only play Genshin (and WuWa since you mentioned it at the end) and I've found that the requirements for characters are so low that as long as you don't care about maxing characters you can easily make do with a half-built team. I wonder if Genshin pulls ahead if you consider needed investment on characters instead of max investment. Skills up to level 6 and characters up to level 80 will be more than enough to get you through everything other than Spiral Abyss. Regarding echo xp in WuWa, I think I agree with your point if I understand it correctly. Once players have established accounts with built characters, we really won't be short on resources when getting and building the new characters of the patch. As bad as the resource crunch is with new games (WuWa and ZZZ), this problem actually gets worse for new players coming to old games like Genshin Impact since we end up with so many more characters all at once.

[@LegolasTN]

I mean, TBF it seems like lvl 50, maybe less, is just fine for most content in zzz. Zzz arguably has more “endgame”content than Genshin but that’s not exactly a point in favor of Genshin.

[@zeseku1493]

ty for the number break down, that was a very intresting comparison, but i also definitely agree that the build requirement in zzz and star rail is way higher than in genshin (you can also squeeze out more stats from artifacts going to +20 at midgame/early endgame before you hit a roadblock of ascensions that are unavailable before reaching account level xy)

[@yoakealdrnari]

I dont know why people are praising the artifact system in zzz. Its obviously just the same artifact system from genshin. Its just as bad. Praise them when hyv makes a game with an artifact system like the memory system in pgr where you dont have to worry about shit like main stats or sub stats.

[@stevenabrian1332]

10:00 This chart although seems accurate only has the calculations based on if your only burning stamina for farming these materials. The realistic time to max out a character I feel is a bit lowered for all Hoyo games with all the various materials you get find via treasure chest, story mode rewards and especially events. That being said at 10:40 yes I hear the disclaimer loud and clear.

[@Jenohart]

Does the Genshin time count include the weeks it takes to run around your world collecting local specialties and then waiting 3 days for them to respawn to collect them again? I love Cyno but good lord the grind for those scarabs...

[@kiranzi]

When I think of F2P unfriendly I only think of the gacha since even if you pay money you still need to grind. I'm F2P since release date and I just recently got enough currency for 160 pulls, the amount required to guarantee a 5 star. Considering how the first limited character in the game Ellen Joe was very popular people were trying to pull her without enough currency. Gachas are always like that at the start. While we got enough currency to guarantee a 5 star, this is also the release patch and we realistically need to wait to see on average how many pulls we get in each update.

[@matchbox7068]

I think you're not considering the fact they're S Rank for a reason and honestly you don't need them.

[@kiranzi]

@@matchbox7068 Almost everyone plays gachas for the characters, how easily you can obtain new ones is a big factor to if the game is F2P friendly

[@hxnslshhax9011]

You can also customize the material farming, so you can get them in one go.

[@kuro5869]

This video was great, fair judgment on all games and straight to the point, nice one!

[@noomynarpa]

Moving from genshin to zzz felt like heaven

[@Julie-cq8ix]

zzz is actually really great for f2p right now especially since a lot of the dps aren't powercrept yet so soldier 11, koleda, and nekomata are great options for now. Also since a team conists of 3 characters its a lot easier to put together a team and you don't need a whole lot

[@drantino]

the one upside to genshin has bin over the other 2 is the amount of characters release per patch. like star rail has had 3 for the majority of these patches. ZZZ is looking to be like 2. wuwa looks like 1-2. genshin has basicly done 1-2 per patch, with i think 1 with 3. so adding in things like event items, theres a actual positive feed back amount on materials per patch. but thats also saying your getting every character. the other thing is the amount of characters in genshin that uses all 3 talents effectively is rare. youd basicly only do skill and burst for supports. in star rail, supports still do like 80%-90 of their tree, because talent, skill and ult are generally leveled on most of them. because how ZZZ plays, it also doesnt directly need everything leveled, like i dont see ult being used on a few characters because of how you can only use it on one despite chain attack also is that. and i also dont see my self leveling dodge on supports.

[@SmashTheAdam]

So far it seems like ZZZ is gonna have 3 per patch too unless they start doing rerun phases like in Genshin (where both banners in a certain phase are reruns without any new characters) because there are 3 characters coming in 1.1. We also got drip marketing for Ceasar who's coming in 1.2 so tomorrow and the day after we're probably gonna get two more (a second new s rank, and a new a rank character)

[@initiald975]

I believe in your math, I hate numbers too, only in the case I need to do stuff by hand including linear algebra by hand calculus 2 & 3. I’ve done grinding programs for a very simple game called swordburst 2, and oh boy, you will need probabilities to predict your drop and some lengthy guestimations because a “pity counter” doesn’t exist.

[@robbyw.8616]

Interesting video. If you are talking about the dailies, you should also talk about the weeklies. I didn't played HSR, but the weeklies in Genshin are much better than the ones in ZZZ. While in Genshin you just need to do the weekly bosses, that can take between 2-8 min each (team strength). In ZZZ you need to do the Hollow Zero at least 2 times to fill the license llvl cap and up to 5 times on highest difficulty to get all the weekly rewards and be efficient. On run can take up to 20-30 min to complete. Also Notorious hunts are also relatively time consuming if you want the max rewards for your rank (Inter knot level >40).

[@shonuffshogun1265]

The problem is once you get to a certain point the amount of agent level up material you can get is drastically decreased and if you want to keep leveling up characters it's going to take much much longer

[@Hibiki_Io]

Something that chart doesn’t really take into account for genshin is some chests in the open world drop talents materials so realistically you aren’t spending 38 days of stamina to increase your characters

[@gigitrix]

He said it multiple times and shook the screen with the Doom OST playing, what more do you people need

[@Hibiki_Io]

@@gigitrix1 I haven’t touched genshin in quite some time so the “you people remark” is uncalled for” and 2 the chart was about using stamina so I wanted to add more context as to why it takes longer via using stamina

[@padung6018]

I'm now 0 crystals in Genshin because I tried to give all of my characters lvl 90 weapons. The grind of mining + refining limit for ores is so long, I think my brain blocked how grindy it was. I remember when I played for the first time that I used that rare 3 star weapon for fodder. Glad that they gave us a chance to get it again.

[@Lazlowe]

5:13 guy surprised me.

[@nekonochesire6023]

Very good video, quite the nice recommendation I got. I want to see those same calculation for Wuthering Wave, because by god it takes sooooo fucking long to raise anything in there, AND you need 3 teams for the abyss equivalent. One thing I'll just argue is that you need to build all 3 characters well in ZZZ, which I don't agree, because it's mainly the DPS that needs investment, supports needs good main stats but most of their skills don't need to be raised, as the buff/debuff they give comes from their core/W engine/disks. Stunner sure it's better to raise them because it raises their daze %, but overall I'd say it's closer to Genshin than HSR.

[@juggernaut6666]

I will say genshin has the multiplier thing when doing artifacts the x2 happens pretty often. Genshin also recently changed the daily quest reward system pretty significantly. Most the time you can just spend resin like in star rail and never touch a daily.

[@Doorkey2]

I’m just chilling watching movies with Anby

[@alemantos8340]

All those numbers are good, but the issue is energy requirement for ZZZ. You can get 300 energy in 24 hours in ZZZ and HSR is 240, but energy cost of one relic cave is 40 in HSR (so you can do 6 runs a day farming needed relic set), but in ZZZ run to get same value as HSR for the proper drive disk one run cost 80-100 energy (depends of your luck). You can say - "jut remove couple enemies and run cost wil be same as HSR", but the value also be less than HSR to. Also big difference for me is that in HSR to build new character to a basic lvl (when he can do at least something) takes couple days max, and you can say - "sure, if you reached endgame, than you have lot of prefarmed relics and resources, so it take much less time to build new character", which i absolutely agree, but in ZZZ i fully finished all available missions, reached 50 lvl of proxy yesterday and I've got significantly less resources and relics then I've god after reaching max lvl and finished story in HSR, so yes, i still think that ZZZ is much more ftp unfriendly then HSR.

[@bjornnilsson2941]

I was about to say the exact same thing at the end. Wuthering Waves felt incredibly taxing because we were used to our 3+ year old Genshin accounts and 1+ year HSR accounts. I've since left the game for other reasons but the f2p friendliness and resource grind were really not that bad, and the same goes for Zenless. Can I also just say that the disk drive system (artifacts) of ZZZ are soooooooo nice compared especially to Genshin but even compared to HSR! It was so quick to level up to the point where you get the top rarity drive disks guaranteed and the drop rates are quite generous. Add to that the fact that you can mix an match between all 6 pieces for a 4 piece + 2 piece set. And the 2 pc bonuses are quite easy to overcome with good substats (for DPS anyway) that you can just simply run double off pieces and still keep your core 4 piece effect. We also finally don't have substat amount RNG!!

[@Wyqkrn]

Should keep in mind that Genshin's new system more or less allows you to just dump stamina and leave, assuming you're actually exploring the game. If you're not you might want to reconsider why you're playing the damn game. Plus for Genshin + ZZZ over HSR: For Genshin, you really only need to max your onfielder and your damage characters, which is more like 60% of the whole team being invested. In ZZZ, a standard DPS Stun Support team quite literally needs a single built character while the remaining two can live on being like 30% built, In HSR, you might be able to skimp on some characters but they still need to be built enough to take hits, which raises the minimum investment floor compared to the other two.

[@initiald975]

00:43 - No. Genshin is by far the worst in my opinion. Longer and more drawn out than zenless. I was grinding for months to max my characters out, stuck at AR 30, unlike the rapid progression in zenless taking a week or so to obtain materials for upgrades for all three characters enough so that I kick ass. Although if you want me to tell you about the second worst gatcha game I currently play, that would easily be swordburst 2, the gatcha being limited auras. And since the drop rates take thousands of kills meaning hundreds of hours of slow gameplay, this is the worst game that is fun to find other people to suffer with to get cool stuff. In how shitty a game can get, nothing beats the pay to win aspect more than a “dead game”, called swordbust 2. It’s more than just the playerbase, it’s the current devs running the game are on crack. Then the worst has to go to top drives. A game where cars have finite potential, and none of your upgrades are permanent. Pay to possibly win against bots harder than you, because there is so many players who keep beating you it can’t be real right? Especially if you’re like my father spending 100 dollars a week on the damn game before realizing he was racing bots more frequently and it was more of a pay to win game than before. The best gatcha game I’ve ever played is silly wisher, which is a joke game with free pulls each day for joke representations of genshin characters, all for free, but it’s so funny I recommend you support that dev because the game is hilarious yet satisfying.

[@Shinra0811]

I think it’s all about perception because in ZZZ we have to build 6 characters at the same time

[@John_II]

Good to know. I like the numbers/stats. It's good to know how long it takes to build a character. As a Genshin vet, I remember that I told someone it takes at least a month to level a character properly... man, was I off. It takes two months. :(

[@alejandrogonzalez-gq4xm]

10:05 While yes that does take a while you have to consider the fact that most people do NOT max out their characters, hell some don't even max one at all, and knowing how all these characters are in genshin most characters only need to max out one talent and have the other two at lv 6 which saves a butt load of materials and mora, hell some characters work just fine at lv 70 with lv 6 talents, and lv 80 weapons or even lv 70, as for star rail I can't say i run any character i use allat with a lv 70 weapon besides one or two (pela and tingyun) out of like the 20 characters i have built, the same goes with talents or traces for hsr, my pela isn't even maxed out bc she's like lv 70 so i can't max her alll the way, and I've only upgraded one of her main talents, that saves so much days of progress, then into zzz, I'm not like crazy into endgame although i have out a ton of hours into it i only have two characters with full gear all leveled up been playing for one month but I'm on the second to last stage in terms of lvs for at least 6 characters, basically the same as being lv 80 or lv70 in genshin and hsr respectively, while yes these numbers may seem like allot you can save a lot of time especially in genshin, although the same can be said for both of the other games as well, bc hell some supports like Nicole don't need any of their skills to lv up just whatever tf the other set that buffs her def shred is called,

[@TheBaxes]

I want to believe that people won't be angry if it wasn't a gacha and the game was just done once you reached the end of the available content, but that kind of people would probably just complain that the game is too short after pouring hundreds of hours into it or something like that.

[@gaijinsansama]

I don't mind the long grind, but I wish the return was better; the diminishing returns from leveling a character from 50 to 60 is a bit too insane; you only do it because the game gatekeeps you from your damage due to level differences, but that happens in almost every ACG

[@bangzub]

What I hate about zzz as f2p is I always lost on the limited banners.. I lost on Ellen's banner for Lycaon, and I lost on Zhu yuan's weapon banner for Koleda's..

[@thenovakayne779]

Why u pulling on weapon banners as a f2p unless u really like the character ? My goal as a f2p is to get all s characters i skipped ellen i lowkey regret it but atleast i got enough polys for jane doe

[@NeonKn1ght]

I am f2p player, I got to lvl 40 in less than 2 weeks, I still have things to do in the game.

[@oraclethegr8]

The title "Zenless Zone Zero Is Secretly TERRIBLE for F2P?" made me think this was going to be a comparison of summon currency available between the games However, I happened to also be curious about the daily grind and character building comparisons. And the video was great for that! Especially the inclusion of the references I'm not sure if this accounts for the Genshin Weekly Boss mechs as well: Can only farm it once per week, did it give the right drops, do you have dream solvent, are you building more than one character that needs the same weekly boss, etc. Looks like some references mentioned it, but I wasn't sure which you used. Probably doesn't matter much since it would likely only make the genshin number even higher than it already is O.o

[@hasretreew8675]

Very nice that you used bang! Boo! Bug! music video in the background ❤❤

[@famimame]

In my case, I actually feel like I'm playing when it comes to ZZZ compared to HSR, where it plays me instead. 😂

[@ChiefLao]

That math is mathin' - thanks for the breakdown. Choose your drives carefully.

[@Ekamin1]

The long time in genshin is coz you can collect stuff from the open world chests, small but accumulate over time

[@giansabbadini1626]

When you start to analyze the time needed to get good artifacts on each game, the numbers skyrocket, specifically HSR. I hate farming relics in HSR

[@darkflames9]

ZZZ's Hollow Zero weekly is a huge time sink because to get all rewards you have to do it 5 times, or at least 2x to get most of them. Each run can take upwards of 20 minutes of full attention to complete. Compared to HSR's Simulated Universe, where at max level, you only had to do it twice for max points, and each run could be done in like less than 10 minutes, and most of the combat could be autoed. Hell, it only takes 1 run now with Divergent Universe, but who knows, they might add something like that in the future.

[@T_O_G-24]

Damn, wish someone told me to not grind the game out. I usually like to grind out games (not to complain later but for more of content) and now I just have to grind out character leveling and new events popping up. It's fun grinding stuff out with the dailies/weeklies

[@corruptjet6134]

I would like other's opinions on this, but i do feel like it's harder to farm pulls f2p in Zzz then Hsr or GI. Not really much to go on other then it just "feels" like less primo-currency is coming in a once.

[@TehReasoning]

I already gotten two S rank for free, it's pretty decent compared to the first descendant which isn't f2p friendly and whale friendly.

[@zackrosegaming4715]

I am slightly F2P. I payed only a dollar. Just to get Nicole's W-engine. since I want the secret moves she can do when she is using her EX skill. But I'm still mostly F2P. And I got my account to like 54 already in a span of a few months and such. I have like 3 character's at lvl 60 and like 4-ish characters to lvl 50. I don't see much of a problem for me when it comes to ZZZ. I just like to grind the Hollow Zero stuff because that's there all to do when I get all the dailies in. But you also forgot about buying soup as well since that's also another daily you have to do. I also just got Nicole's F rank tier of the like core mechanic skills or whatnot.

[@HadouGun]

Another thing that I think ZZZ has is the Drive Disks don't have RNG on the roll value, also they can roll double crit on a Crit piece I think. So I think that artifacts in ZZZ are actually possible to farm mostly high end pieces pretty quickly.

[@Tigrion]

Yup min a month to fully build a character in all 3 games. In Genshin case a lot longer It still has that old system from 10 years ago gatchas where talent and weapon upgrade materials are locked to specific days of the week. You can't farm the same mat on Monday and the day after you need to wait for Wednesday to be opened again and then wait for Sunday god forbid you having a life and not being able to login in those days at all. You can't save more than 5 pots of 40 stamina per time as well as there is no over cap system still only HSR has one of those after the first few months of it being new ZZZ will probably have it past the 4th to 6th month maybe mean while you have 200 stamina per day that caps that's it.

[@binggoesthedinomite]

The argument going into the actual analysis feels like the same argument that was made for HSR.

[@pandan__]

While the overall gacha system remains the same for 5 star units, zzz did improve the system for getting rate up 4 stars. For example there are only 2 rate ups instead of 3 as well as by almost doubling the 4 star rates compared to genshin and hsr, making them much easier to obtain. The daily and weekly errands are super fast, but the weekly hollow zero are a chore to get through if you want all the rewards, taking over an hour to clear those weekly. Playing on controller makes it even slower because of the poor controller user experience while playing hollow zero on controller. For example using the mouse you can click on a tile and the player zooms quickly to it, while on controller you have to move one title at a time with the very slow movement animation. It’s equivalent to playing with keyboard and mouse but you have to always click one tile ahead of you at a time, the animation and movement takes way too long. It wouldn’t be a problem if players can switch between controller and k&m seamlessly.

[@HarukoXD69420]

Well, ive been playing for about over a week and i've completed everything (except the inter-knot lvl40 stuff cause im only at lvl38) and ive got 3 S-rank characters and all the A-ranks, i have 6 characters at lvl40 pretty much all built, and for me i think the materials you need to upgrade stuff are pretty easy to get. Only thing i struggle a little with is the "artifacts" and thats pretty much it. And man, Zhu Yuan is such a blessing i did lose the 50/50 to Lycaon but got her a day or so after. So it is pretty F2p friendly so far until you finish everything in the game so far.

[@iamrivenous]

Great vid. Don't have much to add, others have already done so. Hence take this comment for the algo

[@daboyax]

Nothing beats HSR's "Excess Stamina Storage" 🎉 Btw, need to consider free stuff from Genshin's teapot, it adds a lot.

[@padung6018]

But if you are a beginner, you need to farm all of the materials needed for your server room + lion farm (and also counting the time for you to get the money to buy the potions for a fast furnishing build) to get the teapot to a level that it can open the shop. So for me, it takes a lot of time for a beginning f2p to build a character. But one thing about Genshin that I like is that the starting four stars are really viable at the endgame. And I see a lot of no-pull accounts beating the abyss 12 stars.

[@LadonAltair]

Good video with good information but there is a little more to being free to play friendly than your grinding efficiency. Things like amount of free currencies/materials are arguably more important than how much you can farm per energy spent, especially when any free currencies/materials directly take away from the need to farm and are therefor a much greater increase to efficiency. Now obviously with ZZZ being so new it's difficult to get a good measurement of this, but probably something worth mentioning. Keep up the good work.

[@kittenhero568]

Man has green screen but doesnt want to use a mic stand

[@MysteriMaan]

F2P here. I finished Withering Hollow dif 3. Shiyu defence 10/10 & 5/7.

[@kingumbryon8021]

I really like ZZZ. The gameplay and QOL are leauges above what Genshin offers. I do really like Genshin's story, but ZZZ is still on 1.0 so obviously the story needs more time to develop.

[@maheee]

a very informative video. very nice. imo, all this 4 big gacha games is pretty much the same. we all going to lose 50/50 at some point lmao.

[@MrClaus.]

5:12 Literally thought this was someone on your green screen appearing next to you 😅

[@ittybittyshinystar]

You know what, so far I feel every character on ZZZ is good, the 4star ones are actually amazing, making every character you decide to go for meaningful and encouraging going for the ones you for-sure want, and the "relics" don't have random ranges for substat rolls. I'm actually quite content. WAY better than a game like, say, tower of disappointment, with it's inhumane levels of powercreep and absolute RNG fest on equipment. Random main stat, random sub stats, random sub stat rolls, random sub stat upgrade rolls' rolls, fuck...

[@7n527]

I think its fine tbh, very flexible game and sometimes overwhelming, im level 44 and never spent a penny. Getting characters arent the issue, i guess for the mass majority is that everyone wants to have alot of gems and more stam, But its a gacha...eventyally youll get to where or what you want.

[@vickovoyd9352]

Before playing zzz i hadnt played a hoyoverse game in at least 2 yrs and i have to say that PGR's gacha spoilt me,cuz the fact that there isnt a dedicated wengine stable banner is whack and that there is no guarantee of getting the permanent 5 star char is crazy

[@filruan]

And the worst of all these systems is: Bosses, limited 3 times a week. The worst of it is Genshin Impact with only 1 time per boss per week. Additional, you wont even get that item with a chance of 1 out of 3. Who wants that? Waiting a whole week, or another week, to get an item to finish your character.

[@RatchR]

Great video, love the green screen format you got going

[@Harishgamer00]

I tried buying the disc drive level up material from the store with 3 bangboo using dennies and immediately went broke. So there's that as well. Now my biggest hibderence is Dennies and I don't want to spend resin for that

[@axelarkamg196]

You don't have to, hollow zero exploration data can be converted to dennies freely

[@Overlordmono]

I`m just sad that hoyo copied Aether gazer`s Artifact system(sigils in AG, Discs in ZZZ) but still chose to do it in Genshin and HSR style(lots of RNG), They could have easily just copied everything and made the grind way less exhausting, but hey it is working and the players are happy with it, so I guess I have to live with RNG in this one as well. for people who want to know how artifacts work in AG: you just get the piece once and level it up and then you can reroll substats on it until you are satisfied, and they give enough resources for rerolling that you can easily reroll 300~500 times in every patch.

[@SmashTheAdam]

Holy moly goly that system sounds so goooood, but Hoyo will be Hoyo, and this is coming from someone that only plays star rail and ZZZ right now, aka hoyo games

[@RayRahu]

I am hoping they add this feature; make it a Remix or Retune sub-stats kind of thing..

[@RaykinaBreaker]

ZZZ upgrading is easy since all the material can be get on HIA. Even grinding for gold CD equipment is faster than my bad experience in HSR.

[@saffriassnow]

I'm not sure I've gotten every banner unit and meta normal banner unit and I'm playing the bare minimum of the game I literally haven't done a single event and I'm not halfway through the story despite playing day one (lvl 30 atm). They seem to be very giving. same with HSR

[@AashishPrajapati-nr2ox]

What you did not mention is that in ZZZ, you only need to build your main DPS , and have the supports underlevelled. You do not upgrade many skills of supports because you are always using the main dps on field 90% and always using main dps burst.

[@codesterz3399]

Technically this isn't true. For anomaly comps you essentially have 2 anomaly units of separate elements to trigger disorder that need to be built up. For standard comps stunner has the highest on field time in ZZZ and both the attacker and stunner need to be well built.

[@pyronado4320]

That's true for all games in varying degrees. You don't need to level kazuha's talents at all. Supports like faruzan and chevreuse work even when underlevelled

[@MrTwenty5ive]

can you get every character that in the game? If not, what is F2P mean ?

[@mikedavid6492]

Genshin: 479.28 Days Everything: 59.91 Days HSR: 336.80 Days Everything: 42.10 Days ZZZ: 215.94 Days Everything: 35.99 Days ZZZ wins against GI & HSR

[@griffen1007]

When your daily is a ballon escort, jelly race, defense, and another defense.... yea and it takes up your 20 min of free time, you don't even get to farm, and your like "it's 5 min in ZZZ and not much different for Genshin". Bro don't lie!

[@RayRahu]

You don't have to do those dailies; you can just get daily activity completion through quests and explorations instead.

[@plugghurtz]

got both limited characters as a f2p! way better than genshin imo

[@sera3718]

That's why I quit after like 30+ hours, If I remember correctly I only get like 11k premium currency, and after I pulled for zhu yuan and dropped to 2k, I'm like fk this maybe I'll come back and reroll when Miyabi or better design characters is out.

[@AespaKatarina]

So.. you pulled for a character that you Don't even like and now you wonder why you don't have pulls? Bruh

[@sera3718]

@@AespaKatarina the fact that they advertise " FREE 160 PULLS " when in reality you you'll get around 20000k + around 15 tape you can't even guaranteed a banner assume that you've cleared everything in the game and those are locked behind proxy level, if you lose a 50/50 aw you better open your wallet if you want anyone after this patches. I did enjoy zhu yuan tho for a few hours and that's it.

[@AespaKatarina]

@@sera3718 brother, i played for a week and i already have C1 Ellen, C0 Rina, and C0 Neko. And Yes, that's called marketing. Checkout and PLAY our game and get rewards, not just login, get 100 pulls from mail, roll and sell account.

[@AespaKatarina]

@@sera3718 and i haven't spend a single cent in this game. At least, not yet coz i still have time anyway to save for the characters i want that are prolly still months away from release.

[@xrosslegends1279]

​@@sera3718 They advertised 100 pulls + 80 boopons which are for the bangboos (of those 100 pulls most are for the standard banner, I got 20 limited from loging in 7 days), but I don't wanna have to explain this stuff, you could have just looked up a video detailing you how many pulls you can get and how to get them, if I remember correctly by farming the whole version 1.0 you can get like 200 pulls not counting the gifted pulls, but you don't have to listen to me, just look it up.

[@projectz358]

I do feel bad for gacha players. The amount of grinding to be stronger is insane.

[@CrochetPrune3]

I got every character for the 2 first meta team(as f2p) so now i can enjoy getting what i want (i don't like Zhu yuan and the big argument of Nicole😅)

[@CrochetPrune3]

Also i'm ruined( the moment i understand getting Qingyi was an error)(my last pull is Zhu Yuan)

[@amnothere2172]

Im running out of polychrome i get for just playing 😥 thats the only thing im worried about honestly since character banners last for only 2 weeks

[@nguyen.tien.phat1310]

Tge problem with GI farming is that the skill books locked in specific days, and speciality mats for each region, and random drop rate for boss matz and stones, and and.... Damb it so many things to consider. In zzz every mats are in the same place of farming and no timegated shit. Idk if the stamina requirement is much more or less but the comfort of farming is definitely much better

[@Bluzlbee]

I find Honkai still is the hardest of F2P, DMC Dark Soul vets can get away with the gap in Genshin and ZZZ, and in Honkai I gotta: 🗿

[@TheGreatKingChiba]

I would say ZZZ is pretty reasonable... BUT.... I do think it needs a reserve battery system of some kind that is similar to the reserved trailblaze power in HSR if it wants to remain competitive in the market with the other Hoyo games. The market is so saturated that we are reaching a point where these games are gonna start living and dying by how easily players can stop playing for a bit and then easily jump back in, and having that stamina building up in a reserve while you are away is a great incentive to get players to keep coming back after those periods of inactivity. This should already be a concern for them with how many big name content creators are leaving the game and how NOT having that system in place is only gonna make it less likely those people will come back and continue providing tons of free press for the product. There is also plenty of reason to believe the first half of the 1.1 patch is going to see a sizeable dip in players because launch hype will die down and there is far more hype around Jane Doe than there is Qingyi, so people who have already done their farming of the bulk of currently available chromes and want Jane are most likely gonna drop away. It would be much easier to make sure players from both of those groups dont get distracted and return to the game if they were to be returning to reserved battery power to help them farm upon returning.

[@tsuaririndoku]

Seriously tho. People have to chill out when playing Gacha Games. It isn’t an ESPORTS. Where you have to make full use of thr content as much as possible. Heck, I take my time after I finish the story. I take it slow and experiment with things on which way I can have fun to play with combos. I don’t any tutorial to build up damage as much as possible in a short period of time. I just think which combo feels cool to do one after another. One of a problem the problem I found in ZZZ. Is that it is Timer Based. Which force players to do damage as much as possible in a short period of time. I think the game shouldn’t be Timer Based but making the rank based on how many continuous combos you can do. Like how they do DMC games. You get S rank if you keep combo at SSS. I think ZZZ can have that as well. Being more experimental combos than just damage rev up. Funny enough if we implement the Combo Based score you remove the Playing the game with blindfolds problem. Because you can’t combo characters and sustain no hits while also need to keep the combo flowing with a blind fold. It also funny if we have players who do literally damage as much as possible and gain B because he didn’t build up the combos.

[@Nox_ee94]

for me personally the reason I still believe HSR comes out on top in terms of being f2p friendly in comparison to ZZZ is pretty much down to the disks/relics... having it seperated to a 2/4 relic format as opposed to all 6 disks in 1 farming that then on top of that costs 60 stamina and at legendary gives 2-3 golds just like HSR is just worse no matter how RNG treats you. To combat this dismantling is cheaper is ZZZ but it goes by a 6:1 ratio to dismantle to a disk of your choice as opposed to HSR 10:1 (3 if u dont select a slot but i u do that ur crazy in my honest opinion and will hit it off with my good ol buddy the joker) but thats a 6:1 disk of ur choice with 3 disk slots that matter where 1 of those has a minimum of 4 main stats and thats just crazy, getting to end game builds in this bullet sponge fiesta is crazy and wayyyy worse than the stat checking I had to face in HSR and I love Wuwa but the echo exp for tacet suppresion at the higher levels is wild... i dont need all those useless echos... stop giving me useless new echoes and just give me some exp dammit I paid 60 waveplates per run!!

[@thedg2531]

If you’re f2p in gatcha literally just don’t pull for weapons and only go for characters you really want and only go for one per patch if possible, I’ve played genshin, zzz, wuwa, and hsr and I’ve cleared all their endgame content with c0 characters and no sig weapons

[@WindowsPotato]

Zenless Zone Zero Is Secretly TERRIBLE for F2P.........Unless your Tectone who gets free topup's from his chat

[@Carnaj90]

I'm true F2P have a completely built Ellen with weapon and Zhu Yuan with R5 starlight engine. I can S-Rank up to Shiyu 12 so far and Im only interknot 47 so my characters are max level 50.