Testing WHO'S THE BEST of the Thrones of Decay units?

We're testing out the new Thrones of Decay DLC units against the old in Total War: Warhammer 3. Let's kill, for science.
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[@strakk]

"Combined IQ of 44" Sound like every single coop campaign I load in with my mates

[@kluasvt828]

amen to that

[@animewarrior3]

Pft. Our last 2 collective brain cells always fighting for 3rd place.

[@Weberkooks]

lmao I love this game for so many reasons but the absolute brain death of playing multiplayer campaigns is worth every penny

[@Segwo]

Are you somehow friends with me? Lol. My friend and I are idiots and we play coop lol

[@jacobanderson-small3628]

But zerk, you forgot the plague ogres

[@Helleuw123]

and pestigors

[@Lovely--K]

My boys the pestigors are why I clicked on this video 😢

[@HellScryer]

@@Lovely--Ksadly the pestigors are beat out still by chaos warriors of Nurgle with great weapons 😢

[@Drazhoath1]

@@HellScryer well thats because they are not supposed to be used that way

[@vineveer4358]

One trick with low model count infantry, such as the doomseekers, is to always throw them in to an ongoing infantry brawl. With say, some dwarf warriors or miners mixed in, you have many less models attacking your glass cannon doomseekers, but almost all your doomseekers are still able to get into melee. You don't really need to flank with units like doomseekers either, just run them in behind your holding line.

[@vineveer4358]

Vampire coast depth guard work like this, too. Particularly the dual-axe variant.

[@vyeelime8143]

Yeah, I'm surprised Zerk's testing for the Doomseekers was so tactically static; they're basically unbreakable trolls, so it's a little pointless to put them in an unsupported position, same as you wouldn't with trolls.

[@vineveer4358]

@@vyeelime8143 It's not entirely useless. It's still still very good to know how they may hold up in a frontal engagement if they need to. It's also very good at showing that bringing doomseekers will not let you widen your front line or envelop your opponents.

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@vineveer4358 I second this comment about Depth Guard with Dual CC weapons. That's exactly how I use them. Allow the enemy to crash on my zombie chaff front line and tire themselves. And then I counter charge with the Depth Guard who generally proceed to murder fuck anything they can touch.

[@Weberkooks]

not really a trick it's a basic principle of the game with low model count units. This is almost always how you use monstrous infantry

[@SaltyRocksPew]

5:11 A "WHAT" ranged missile infantry? Mark this day in the book!

[@superbuck90]

There will be NO Alliance!

[@AmmarAbotouk]

he is definitely in the book no Question

[@jamieict]

16:32 I like that your solution to "how do I compare these other units?" was to just throw all of them on the same side and set about mincing a big pile of elves

[@desgyulabalogh3429]

Grombrindal approves this message

[@Orendiz]

Slayer's biggest weakness i think is the loose spacings they have. Every time they charge into an enemy, they get deep into the formation and end up having to fight 4 models at ones. It certenly looks cool to have movie like mixed blobs of slayers and whatever they are fighting against battle it out. But i think it drastically affects their affectivness as a unit in 1 vs 1. Always use it together with a trash tier unit supporting it even for elite slayers if you want them to perform their best.

[@tominieminen66]

That sounds like a perfect opportunity to do the T-pose spin, charge in and let it rip! 😂

[@Orendiz]

@@tominieminen66 Lets BAYYBLAAAADE

[@Arbaaltheundefeated]

@@tominieminen66 I think that might have been the idea, but if so it didn't translate well into game mechanics.

[@Weberkooks]

It's also a life saving advantage against artillery fire

[@desgyulabalogh3429]

Exactly. Thing is these guys are supposed to do that lorewise. They wanna die só they can restore their honour. Its perfect.

[@_Meriwether]

Point of order: Grudge Rakers do _less_ damage per shot than Blunderbusses - but they get _two_ volleys per point of ammo (so, six projectiles, to Blunderbuss' three) at a faster reload which is why their stats show higher. They can stun-lock the enemy far more effectively, but their kill potential is slightly worse due to the spreading of the damage.

[@coolbeanzbeef]

No toad dragon vs dread saurian?? That's the Warhammer Kaiju fight I've been waiting to watch!

[@domi8242]

4:34 Also looks like grudgerakers knock infantry down more often

[@AliothAncalagon]

For every reload they shoot twice. Thats probably where the stronger knock back comes from.

[@WARHOUND556]

didn't chorf blunderbusses absolutely ragdoll the shit out of everything they shot on launch too? seems like the rakers have the same launch-window behaviour as the busses, would make sense given they shoot the exact same looking projectiles, probably the same coding wise.

[@joshwalton25]

​@@WARHOUND556I'm pretty sure CA said they're identical

[@warweasel2330]

In every Total War I've preferred melee cav over shock cav, so the Black Rose lads are a nice addition for me. I'm not a huge Empire player but these additions look excellent.

[@easytanksgaming3238]

Except rome1. Cheap barbaric horseman with their great 9 charge bonus make romans flee, despite having low combat stats))

[@simoncodrington]

Tell you what would be handy with those shock cavalry? If there was a little icon next to it's unit flag indicating when it's charge bonus is spent, a little indictor so you know when you should probably pull them out, out even an indicator showing you they're having a rough time because they've been left in (besides looking at the matchup text directly on the unit card)

[@cango8415]

I like how new big units are a giant ship that flies also a ship that goes on land also a very large breaded dragon pet. Loving them!

[@zenebean]

Do get big bearded dragon vibes, which I love

[@wizardofaus7013]

One advantage that snipers have over jezzails and crane gunners: looks like they’ve should be placeable on walls. That’s big for my siege tactics.

[@tatertot4224]

I find this particular kind of video the most compelling that Zerk makes, no way would it be sustainable for a youtube channel to only make stuff like this, but its very useful imo

[@leonardbrazil5497]

Doomseekers are a dam good unit, mostly for chaff clearing but I do think they need a 8 man unit buff give them 40 models and I think they’d be a very good infantry blender. And I think a way to make long rifles perform around the same as other sniper units, is to give them 300 range so they’ve got slightly more range but overall less tanky, and dealing less damage more of a damage over time unit.

[@Lukashoffmann94]

Probably even 45 models. 0 armor, 0 resists and no shield is just too punishing for their current stats.

[@Troupe_Master]

I know a modder who has plans for them so dont fret

[@leonardbrazil5497]

@@Lukashoffmann94 I do agree I think slayers should get a minor physical resist. At the very least the ROR doomseekers should.

[@leonardbrazil5497]

@@Troupe_Master when I get my new pc I’m planning on doing that myself.

[@Weberkooks]

@@Troupe_Mastercool. Most people aren't going to use the mod. Most people who care about a units stats are multiplayer people anyways.

[@pimentinha1121]

another thing about blunderbusses is that they have a lot of ways of incressing their damage even in multiplayer, with the fire passive flamable attacks and such, do it makes sense for them to be less cost efficient on a vaccum

[@shiggydiggy6847]

Chorf and dwarf shotguns have the same damage per volley, the difference being that dawi ones have 3s less reload time which the unit card shows as higher damage. Even defensively the reload time is more useful since the blunderbus shots do knockback and the target models end up locked in stagger animations.

[@UnclePunchalot]

Make size comparison between Toad Dragon and other titanic monsters (Dread Saurian, Frost Wyrm, Elemental Bear, Mammonth, Giant, Rogue Idol).

[@inductivegrunt94]

If the Dwarfs know one thing, is that Blunderbusses and Shotguns go "Boom!"

[@aeranthial439]

I hope the dwarf thunderbarge does not get ancient salamandered.

[@venox3811]

Doomseekers are not frontline warriors. They are better used when combining them with other less quality units.

[@Vyrtus_]

Melee flankers 🤌

[@zacharyjackson1829]

they're mostly pointless is what they are. Giant Slayers at least had some sort of purpose. the new slayer units are all flavor and no substance. Dwarves needed mass, like some kind of mechanized monstrous infantry perhaps, not more slayers that get ripped to absolute shreds while struggling to get the same value as other similar priced units there's one reason to recruit slayers and that's if you're playing a thematic ungrim campaign, otherwise just use more useful units like irondrakes, longbeards, ironbreakers, and the newly introduced grudge rakers. you'll have a unit that can actually do something without needing to be paired up to be useful

[@jamesespinosa690]

I think maybe they should have been made into an ability like NightGoblin spiny ball boys are??

[@Vyrtus_]

@@zacharyjackson1829 I have to agree with you. Too many redundant units. Regular dual wield slayers should be anti infantry and are enuff.

[@raaaaaagh4263]

@@Vyrtus_But short people can’t really do flanking😂

[@THEHAMMERNOOB]

Pleasantly surprised at how competitive the units are! A lot of the cries of "OP" and "pay-to-win" had me worried, but from these tests it seems like the matchups are a lot more interesting and balanced than I thought. Thanks Zerk!

[@BertShackleford]

I really do enjoy these mashups, Zerk. They can be quite comical at times. It is the necessary break we need from the monotony in our lives. Watch a short video, have a few laughs, learn something new in the process and then back to the daily grind. Nevertheless, thank _you_ for your continued dedication to the channel and TWW. Stay classy my friend.

[@Cornerboy73]

I wish the Nuln Ironsides had repeaters. They look too much like the snipers who in turn seem kind of underwhelming. I hoped the Doomseekers would perform better; if they want to keep the unit size smaller, maybe they could use a little stats tweak before Tuesday.

[@brianwalsh1339]

Bro I love that there’s a reload animation for the new thunderers, wish there was one for the Hochland long rifles and the Ironsides.

[@Tentacl]

Yeah, I use a reaload animation mod for years, the fact that there is none without modding is just so weird.

[@ollyrukes]

It’s a shame the animation isn’t quite right though. The whole point of the shield on the back is that the dwarf can turn away from the enemy whilst reloading to defend against incoming missiles but with this animation they just face forward. (Pavise crossbow men in MTW did this)

[@TheYannir]

Tbf, CD Dwarf units are supposed to be more expensive than their regular dwarf counterparts when their stats are equal. They can field more bodies on the lower end so their better units are more costlier in comparison.

[@PauLtus_B]

Compact Disc Dwarf

[@TheYannir]

@@PauLtus_B Hah! Well caught.

[@PauLtus_B]

@@TheYannir Mistakes happen. ...but a CD Dwarf is a funny idea to me, even though I don't know how I'd imagine it.

[@kylepassey7813]

5:23 He's a good shot considering he's aiming with an eye that doesn't even work.

[@Guillimann]

God I love these videos of yours, please never stop

[@gorbork]

Skullcrushers need a big buff, they should have a lot more weapon damage.

[@Suzette__Single__again]

Ironsides beating Fireglaives is obscene

[@Ziflin]

even the pornbot knows what's up

[@Galloglaigh.]

Fireglaives are hybrid units, makes sense that they lose to dedicated elite missile units.

[@TheDeathby2]

@@Ziflin They're getting smarter.

[@atlasstoned]

@@Galloglaigh. they also get massive buffs in campaign

[@johnsnow5125]

​@@ZiflinI'm starting to feel like I too am becoming obsolete

[@NotInterXX]

10:37 “I think I left them in there a little too long” what are they, hot pockets?

[@deakroland1981]

00:44 that spinning guy :D

[@KartarNighthawk]

The problem with Ironsides isn't going to be their performance one v one. It'll be if they can do the job more efficiently than Handgunners.

[@DetectiveCheese]

Regarding the grudgeraker vs blunderbusses, do they have the same damage per shot or do one come out on top there? I know you mentioned grudgerakers got higher damage (assuming you hint at the missile strength), but how much is that from the faster reload? For all we know they could do slightly less damage.

[@rouge.z2316]

5:12 "SHORT?!?" - Thorgrim Grudgebearer

[@triarii9257]

15:53 what the heck is that animation? Did that middle troll just pull out its own intestines and slapped the enemy with it???

[@efraim3364]

cant imagine what the rogue armies are gonna be with these new units

[@easytanksgaming3238]

Colleague laugh in evil with their tanks and rockets xD

[@Vonstab]

Does being knocked down still grant immunity to damage? The Reiksguard knocked over a lot of Saurus and that meant that potentially a lot of their charge bonus was wasted on immune models.

[@stealthsquirrel4900]

Doomseekers also have relatively low weapon strength compared to GW units. Slayers and Giant slayers have top tier weapon strength compared to elite halberds, yet doomseekers have the only a small increase compared to black orcs and chosen. So having 32 models really hurts them without a buffer unit. They would need to be pushing 80 weapon strength, have a much larger bonus vs infantry, or have splash attacks with full damage to multiple models to match the output of vanilla slayers vs their ideal target.

[@SpicyPsyDuck]

Make sense that grudge raker fire faster since they reload pretty fast in vernimtide 2, they also seems to fire 2 shots instead 1

[@cranialactivity8008]

The only test I think I’d like for the Landship would be to compare its cannon dps to other single shot artillery like the og steam tank, I want to know how viable it is as a sniper (definitely not the intended use for it but I’m curious)

[@zerodateX]

Are Hochland long rifles able to mount walls unlike the jezail and crane gunner teams?

[@filiusjunior3026]

Nice camera angles and zoom-ins...great vid all in all

[@ThePykeSon]

5:11 SHORT?!

[@rubenfeijoolopez8572]

The "problem" with Doom Seekrs is due to them having 0 armour.

[@hurstcifer7286]

"Hie beard got chopped off"😂😂😂

[@Mark-pn9xy]

Another great video! These match-up ones are entertaining. We now need a snapdragon unit whatever that looks like.

[@DevotedpupaVODs]

I feel like a fair test of cycle charging the knights of the black rose (despite the lower bonus) would have yielded similar results to the shock cavalry. I think they are just straight better because you can micro them but they are more forgiving.

[@TheOneBearded]

I'd like to see how the Toad Dragon fares against creatures like it - Dread Saurian, Frost Wrym, etc. Or other big entities in general.

[@JojoFan46]

How do you do it like that. I try to do expirments seeing which units are stronger but the enemy lord always gets involved.

[@olafthemoose9413]

Doomseeker seem more like monsterous infantry in their rolen as in that you want to stack on top of your other infantry so they can deal their damage while the other infantry acts as a damage sponge (similar to how you usually use aspiring champions) Like stack them om top of miners/warriors/longbeards or even ironbreakets and they should do great

[@T3nch1]

No elves were harmed in the making of these military exercises. *H O W D I S A P P O I N T I N G*

[@jedhaney3547]

Are you planning on doing a vid on the RoR's from this dlc?

[@SabeCrane]

Does anyone know which battle map this is? And if there are more completely flat battle maps?

[@miickydeath12]

do you use any mods for these tests? like for the map or stopping lords from getting in the fight?

[@azizsh9091]

The map is "Crossroads" and it's in the base game since update 3.0 .. not sure how he's keeping the lord stationary though

[@mmoogl3547]

It makes sense for the doomseekers to be bad in a unit versus unit scenario. With such a small unit size and no armor they'll get mauled by most high tier infantry, so you're gonna have to place them inside another friendly infantry unit to shield them while they go on a rampage.

[@jackiekennedy4902]

Why are grudgerakers muzzle loading? These weapons are throat fed cartridge based.

[@adrienwarad]

@Zerkovich you didnt use the vortex ability from doomseekers right ?

[@TheWhiteDragon3]

I may be misremembering, but except for the RoR the vortex is campaign exclusive after unlocking a tech

[@adrienwarad]

@@TheWhiteDragon3 wait no we see the skill in the stats and the RoR one only has a better ability version

[@Lukashoffmann94]

They need to charge it first. I think it was 90s in combat before they can use it.

[@IVIRnathanreilly]

​@@Lukashoffmann94yeah, pretty crazy for a unit that fragile.

[@brickmaxter]

we harly need an artillery test with the new and the old ones

[@mauromatheus8614]

blunderbusses was such unique chaos dwarf unit, and now dwarfs have a better unit.

[@UnclePunchalot]

Make comparison between Toad Dragon vs infantry and War Mammonth/Rogue Idol vs infantry.

[@rinserofwinds]

Jabberslythe and Incarnate Elemental of Beasts seems also pretty compareable to me.

[@unclefreckles4498]

"The problem of the doomseekers is in their size". That's goin' in the book.

[@trixus4768]

Doomseekers are the same case as Druchii Shades. Their base stats are quite bad, but you can pump them up to absolutely insane stats in campaign😂

[@Stormgamer-xb7gv]

15:50 That stone troll getting bullied 😭

[@pierre-mariecaulliez6285]

4:15 Ashut-out ? GG Zerk ! Also, I always consider Knights of the Blazing Sun as the better charge cav...

[@alexs_toy_barn]

So the doomseekers attacks hit multiple entities? Kinda like the black orks RoR?

[@nemak89]

Does the gunners have reload animation now or is that a mod?

[@itinerantspark1658]

I get not testing the barges or ships .But a fun test I just thought of for like TD would be taking those big SEs and tossing them each into a unit of like empire swordsman or something and just timing how long it takes them to either route the unit or like time to get the unit down to half health. Like obviously both a stegadon and a toad dragon could run through a unit of dwarf long beards but who will break them faster and who will do their dmg faster?

[@chretienthibault7122]

God, I missed your unit comparison videos ❤

[@Alhizzyhiz]

Feel like you forgot about deck gunners for the sniper category

[@lambertainment9618]

How do you test the battles like this. Very cool

[@foxbennett7202]

the absolute shock on my face when putting an elite infantry squad of 32 soldiers in direct unsupported combat with a full frontline unit leads to the doomseekers losing

[@fishcake4473]

Doomseekers are dwarven cavalry, got it

[@user-nj3vu1jd5r]

Chaos dwarfs getting power crept this fast feels really bad.

[@r30413]

What is the bile troll pulling out of his omunt?

[@DrakenhofTemplars]

Doom seekers are meant to work in tandem with other units also no plague ogres?

[@joelcarter3542]

doomseekers also have the active ability whirlwind of death which may have helped them in all of these matchups

[@alphawolf1919]

I'm kinda glad the elite Korn demons can punch above their price point the faction can literally only do 1 thing so I'd hope they did it well

[@beastzombiekiller]

I think this has been my favorite DLC in a long time

[@chickensniffer451]

5:34 He says "doo doo"!

[@barkspawn]

They also changed gyrocopters in the new patch, and the new Brimstone Guns are horribly bad. Pretty sure CA made a mistake with their ammo count and/or damage numbers, because a unit of them can barely kill a unit of goblins before running out of ammo. The new normal Gyrocopters are pretty damn good though, and the Goblin Hewer is hilariously fun and really strong if you can increase its ammo count. The new change to the flame cannon is also nice and a general improvement imo. Also Malakai's grape shot cannons are insanely powerful.

[@gtothet9276]

the knights of the black rose models looke fing awesome

[@lukedufresne7866]

7:36 that’s a grudgin

[@chasejordan5676]

For doom seekers did you use their spin?

[@followernumber1]

How are unit stats decided?

[@boyanpenev9822]

Hochland long rifles having slightly worse guns but more models than jezails or crane guns could be good imo. Quantity vs quality.

[@carlcastro7998]

How does he control both units?

[@alexbattaglia8297]

the doomseekers definitely feel like a "troll" unit, dont just charge them into infantry, have them charge behind other friendly units

[@dektarey4024]

I never really thought tests such as these to be of much value. Usually a unit fills a role within a roster in context to existing roster capabilities. Units dont need to outperform the best in class, they need to do something the faction struggles with, elevating the armies potency as a whole. Though i dont believe any of the ToD units fullfill such a responsibility aside from nurgle big bois and nurgle fast bois.

[@shooter2224]

For the ranged stuff it shouldn't be number of volleys, but time, since some units shoot faster obviously.

[@Helleuw123]

you missed 3 more nurgle units. plague ogre, other plague ogre and the pestigor

[@ttestagr]

Regarding the Knights of the Black Rose... Wouldn't they also be able to cycle charge for greater effect? The charge bonus is lower, not non-existent.

[@ludwigkoopa3343]

You should have tested and compare thunderbarge against all units in the game lol

[@r.j.macready]

Maybe Reiksguard need some tweaking because that is a very interesting outcome.

[@jackul2507]

This is a format I really like wathcing, I realize.

[@steffent.6477]

Maybe some monster duels for the toad dragon?

[@user-iv4zn6kx5z]

It's actually sad you didn't make another test for doomseekers but using their spinning ability against exalted bloodletters

[@Mabujold]

Don't the Doomseeker also have an ability? It would be good to see if Doomseekers with their whirl can take on the thoughest infantry units as most of the time you will "farm" lower tier to get it then go unleash that into a top tier unit.

[@Einherjer65]

I think the Reiksguard vs The Knights of the Black Rose, would go way better for the Black Rose if they had the Iron Resolve buff from the Chapter House in Nuln.

[@javierinho6876]

You won my Like when said “Defeated by the french, so enbarrasing” 🤣🤣