Zero Drop Shoes Suck for Thru-hiking

[@pauliedavis49]

VERY well-reasoned, fascinating stuff. I haven't seen this discussed elsewhere either. Thanks and see you next video!

[@Flipperwi715]

I never have thought about it this way. Thank you.

[@mamawelder]

Not many shoes to choose from for me that are wide enough in the toebox. I hiked 900 miles last summer in zero drop Altra Olympus 4s . Had some foot arch pain but stretched my way through it. Topos makes a wide now with 3 mm drop so I’m trying them out. I like how you explained the change of ankle geometry from carrying a pack. Makes perfect sense, Good discussion.

[@rachelberglund]

This was such a helpful video, thank you ! You helped me finally make sense of issues I've had with zero drop shoes for years.

[@philsellers1]

Great points to consider. Thanks for sharing this.

[@markcummings6856]

Great points and info to consider. Thanks. Will be following along on your CDT. Happy Trails

[@rickposada1675]

Thanks Mike!

[@DeborahDebenham]

Very well said. I have tried the zero drop shoes (Altras) and in short I have given them up for a drop shoe(Brooks.) It made a world of difference for the very reasons you noted. I went from suffering from achilles issues to being comfortable on trail and being able to do bigger miles.

[@TheHikingChick1]

Finally explained! And throw in some of the arched packs that pull the weight off the body for airflow and you've pushed the center of gravity back even further. I'm in the drop camp and wear the La Sportiva Ultra Raptor. It's been a great shoe . Zero drops led to achilles problems... Excellent video!!👍

[@TheHikingChick1]

@@RC-qf3mp don't you mean focus proximal vs. distal?

[@TheHikingChick1]

@RC-qf3mp Wow, your passion and knowledge on the topic are apparent. I'm glad you found something that works for you. Have fun out there.🌻

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

​​​​@@RC-qf3mpThank you for all your thoughts on the subject. I too have read, " Born to Run." Please share with us your experiences in thru-hiking a long trail over 1000 miles barefoot. A video or blog would be most beneficial. There is a saying in the military, "Never talk the talk unless you've walked the walk." Again, thank you.

[@tommybewick]

Excellent explanation Mike. I didn't know all the technical details. I switched from zero drop Altra's to my Hoka speed goats a couple years ago and I'll never look back.

[@pismorichy]

Hey Energizer , I am a fan of yours and need to share. As a 64 year young hiker my feet have never been fickle until about 4 years ago. Growing up I never knew how Podiatrist even make a living? Until now!! LOL. I recently before hiking the Camino Frances in March ( I did it!) 859 kilomet I was told that my feet are arthritic, Imagine that. I chose my Altra 7's over my Solomons and my Hoka's . I put a 10 dollar heal insert in the shoes and unlike EVERYBODY I met on the Camino I didn't by a miracle get one blister! A true miracle as I was doing a minimum of 25 kilometers a day. I also rubbed my feet every morning with Voltarin . It was the right choice for me which means our feet are invariably as different as we all are. So in summary I believe all thru hikers need to experiment with several types of shoes/boots. I obviously made the right choice. Hike On.. Richy in Pismo , Buen Camino. Ultreia.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

I always tell aspiring thru-hikers to nail down the right shoe for them before getting on trail. I haven't seen a lot of Altras on the CDT. Mainly Hokas and Topos. I did see one hiker in Altras. This is his first long thru-hike. He was taking four zeros in Pie Town to nurse his debilitating shin splints. My wife and I intend to do the Camino in 2026. One thing I love about that trail is no need to carry a bunch of food and water, so packs remain light.

[@CastawayHikes]

Outstanding breakdown! Shoes are probably the hardest thing for new hikers to get worked out and it really can get expensive because the only way to know what works for you is to go hiking in them. I personally use Topo Athletic, and the thing that I really like a about them is that they have options for various stack heights with various drop hights so you can really dial in your shoe system. I'm going back to the CT this summer, maybe I'll run into you on trail 🤙

[@hikerwoody182]

some very valid points. A lot will depend upon your pack weight, zero drop maybe better suited to an ultralight setup where often a person may be carrying only 15lbs. Good luck with the CDT preparation ✊

[@MentalHeathMatters]

From a running perspective I see the point your trying to make, however, with a zero drop shoe the calf muscles become more active. Therefor strengthening the calfs over time. If your calf’s are strong they can absorb the impact of the extra weight on your back and reduce/ take pressure off the knee which is especially useful with extra weight on your back.

[@mathewalves5203]

Look forward to when your on trail

[@wackyjacksgreatadventures5887]

I totally get what you are saying here. I have experienced it. I actually was wearing Hoka graviotas. But I had put inserts into them because they were about a half size , possibly even one shoe size too large. I had upsized on the shoes because I had heard I should upsize because for sure my feet were going to swell. I trained hiking all summer long hiking the trails in Yellowstone where I was working. In these shoes. My goal was the Camino de Santiago starting I. France , over the pyranees mountains then through the upper part of SpAin to their coastline. By the time I climbed over the pyranees mountains, spending a lot of that first week, especially the first three days, at almost a 45 degree angle at times. Literally it seemed as though at times my face was just a few feet from the ground at times climbing over that mountain range. I had day hikes in my training in and around the mountains of Yellowstone, grand Tetons. But climbing at those kind of angles for short intervals at a time in day hikes. My pack was at full weight on my back, but I did not train like I should for 6 to 8 hours at those steep grades. ESP as a 65 year old woman. So about 120 miles in my Achilles tendons bilaterally just became stiff like a stick. Not painful, but I could not bend in that area. And despite resting and taking time off trail, over a two day period of time became very painful. I had to leave trail. So bad, that I had to get through the Madrid and then Dallas airports via wheelchair. Upon seeing a podiatrist and a sports medicine specialist, I have inserts and the correct shoes for my type of hiking, arthritic feet, very short Achilles tendons and plantar fascia. A very strict training regime to heal and get ready for my re attempt this coming sept. But the podiatrist says the shoes too large were my first mistake. Then the inserts I put in them which took away the drop. So I am in Hoka speedgoats with my new inserts. And training on a treadmill with sharp inclines. Where I live in Texas panhandle is very very flat. But zero drop shoes may not be as good as all the hype. At least not for me.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It is stories like yours that originally got me interested in researching why some shoes seem to work better for hiking than others. I hope your rehabilitation training is successful, and you are able to get back on trail as planned. Hokas have worked well for me, both in running and backpacking. Shoes are definitely the most critical piece of gear. Please update me about your trip and how it goes.

[@Andy-ku3jy]

Excellent analysis cheers Mike. Yes I seem to be having some issues training with full pack with zero drops actually. I think you use Hoka Cliftons or maybe Hoka Speedgoats - on a thru hike ? Did they go well for you on the continental divide trail ? Thank you !

[@mtadams2009]

I can’t wear zero drop shoes because of an old Achilles injury. I love their wide foot box but my Achilles does not do well. Does anyone know of a wide foot box that is more conventional in heal lift? Thanks

[@daven.7685]

Thanks, Mike. Excellent points to consider. A couple questions: How would you characterize your arch height? Do you have high arches, low arches, or flat feet? Are you a natural pronator, supinator, or are you blessed with a neutral ankle? Do you wear any orthotics or arch supports? Many thanks.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

I have high arches, and I tend to overpronate. I use Superfeet Green inserts inside my Hoka Speedgoats and any of my running shoes.

[@daven.7685]

@@oldmanandtheat3093 Thanks!

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

@@RC-qf3mp As stated in the video, you will find scientists sitting in all six camps described. All vehemently saying that they are correct, with supporting evidence no less. Extending Davis' theory, barefoot is best, which is the seventh camp. I chose not to discuss that camp in the video because they have no actual input in running shoe development, since they don't believe in them. Great job finding a scientist that sits in one of the six camps. Keep looking. You will find reputable scientists sitting in the remaining five.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

@@RC-qf3mp But let's assume Davis is correct. Read more by her and other scientists who believe the same. What do they say about retraining the foot after years (a lifetime for most) of improper footwear? It takes years. That is what they propose. Fair enough. My least popular videos are those advocating physically training for a thru-hike. Folks don't want to dedicate three to six months to get ready. Imagine telling someone to change essentially all their footwear, and start doing it years out. Not happening. But that is only if you assume Davis is correct.

[@kristymoore7052]

I tried Altras because all of the hype a few years ago. Didn’t get much mileage on them with my backpack because they weren’t padded enough for my old feet. Picked up some speedboats and am on my second pair. Am trying to Topos, but they are not zero drop.

[@alangauld6079]

I know zero-drop is a big thing in the US but in Europe you rarely see zero-drop hiking shoes. And the forward angle from carrying a pack is something I've always known about even when I started backpacking in the 1970s. I hadn't heard of the walking/running controversy though, that was interesting!

[@richstewart3858]

Great video!! I live in San Diego and have both zero drop (Altra Lone Peaks & Hoka Speed Goats). It seems the speed goats cause knee pain and the lone peaks cause heel pain! I can’t win for losing!🤣 I’m starting light rucking using the Go Ruck 4.0 and will try both shoes…

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Try Superfeet inserts or Solomons shoes.

[@greg.jacobs]

I put super feet in my Altras then they are not zero drop, that seems to work out well.

[@charliejg]

I've actually been hiking in Altra Olympus 4s. I really like the big toe box and stack height for the rocky Pennsylvania terrain. But, I don't like the new prices of the Olympus models. I'm thinking of trying out the Topo Traverse or Terraventure shoes because I still want that big toe box. Enjoyed the video, have a great weekend.

[@frstesiste7670]

My advice to backpackers have always been: 1. Don't select a shoe/boot because it fits someone else. 2. At least start your hike with a shoe you're used to, maybe with 80-90% life left. Which I think is completely in line with the advice in this video. I thruhiked before zero drop shoes was a thing, but always looked for shoes that were not too extreme in any direction.

[@DelaneyGreen-y2g]

wear altra lone peaks on thru hikes and love them. no problems ever. just feel great. at this point everything is theoretical

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

If they work for you, keep wearing them. I even say that in the video. A lot of thru-hikers wear Altras on the PCT and AT. I haven't seen that many on the CDT. One hiker remarked that it was because CDT hikers are typically more experienced. Of the five hikers I have met on this hike having shin splint issues, all were wearing Altras.

[@suemoore1965]

Excellent video, LIKED and SUBSCRIBED thanks to "Audrey All Over"

[@Wh33ls]

Bending at the hips tosses a wrench to the monkey…. Shoes play a much smaller part than folks give credit. Poor fit, poor conditioning, and overloaded packs nullify most of the arguments. Super excited to follow along with your next adventure!

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Bending forward at the hips messes up balance in the core muscles over time. Just like in running, you can practically watch a hiker straighten as the miles go by. But I am all about keeping my pack weight down.

[@FreddyEnergizer]

Energizer :)

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Great trail name!

[@FreddyEnergizer]

it sounds vaguely familiar :P @@oldmanandtheat3093

[@chrislonsberry1974]

I learned something today! Thanks!

[@clydevanwinkle7382]

Yup

[@lewisleake9902]

I'm thinking about getting speedgoats since they appeared to work great for you on your AT hike. I can only do day hikes, but need a good shoe.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Speedgoats work great for me, but might not be for everyone. For example, I started the AT with Quickbeam who also wore Speedgoats. They about destroyed his feet in the first 30 miles. He bought a different make/model shoe at Neal's Gap that also tore up his feet. He changed out two more times in the first 300 miles before finding the shoe that worked. If you run, try duplicating your running shoe in a trail shoe. If you don't run, be patient in finding the right shoe before getting on trail.

[@Dave_Outside]

Excellent information. However🎉, I’m disturbed at a soldier being in San Diego. That’s for US Navy personnel/retirees only. 😂 But seriously. A higher drop shoe is definitely better for most people when it comes to hiking. Actually 8 mm is not really very much. 10 to 12 is probably even better. It puts the calf in a slightly more relaxed position which then pulls less on the Achilles tendon and the ankle and the foot. I watch a lot of these hikers, and so many of them have foot and ankle problems. Or knee pain. Most likely related from improper footwear and not enough physical preparation. I’ve said this before. You simply cannot go from the occasional weekend hiking to walking 10 to 15 miles per day day after day with a 35 pound backpack on. And not expect to have some sort of injury. Or overuse issue. And you cannot get into shape in a couple of weeks on the trail. At least not as older people. You gotta prepare in advance. Shouldn’t be a problem for a soldier. I would assume they’ve done plenty of rucking. lol.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Thank you so much for sharing. Great information on shoes and training. I think you might like my next video, coming out on Saturday. It's on training. And there's some Navy thrown in! 😀😀

[@Dave_Outside]

@@oldmanandtheat3093 Go Navy! Good I’m looking forward to it. The information you put out on doing a long distance hike like this is valuable. Gave me a lot to think about if I want to try in the future. After you complete this next, I think you should write a book. My father was 28 years active duty Army. Retired Colonel also. Landed in Normandy I think it was three days after D-Day. Also fought in Korea, Vietnam. And spend some time in Japan after World War II. My son is a Navy pilot. I served 11 years active and 11 reserve, Navy. Pretty much all military family. But nobody has hiked the Appalachian Trail lol.

[@petercarl9020]

but shouldn't it just be the upper body that "leans" forward and the legs stay the same, if you put on a backpack? Otherwise you would have to constantly put more effort in your legs to maintain the balance.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Try it. Put a heavy rucksack on, bend only at the waist, and walk at a decent pace. By mile five, you'll naturally start straightening your back. The body's core works best when it's in its natural position. Same goes for the legs. It's not more work on the legs if you modify the ankle angle to compensate for the change in center of gravity. If you don't adjust the ankle angle, then, yes, the legs work extra hard, particularly the Achilles tendon. Also causes shin splints because the tibialus anterior is always flexed for the same reasons why runners are told to kick at the end of each stride. Thus, why zero drop shoes are not good for thru-hiking.

[@kkman30kVw]

Important topic, but speaking of long distance hiking, this video is kinda long. If over 10 minutes, consider ending with a summary.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Watch ten minutes, then come back the next day and watch the rest. Or don't watch. Either way, I get paid the same (nothing).

[@dennisrobinson5432]

Spoken like an engineer. Works on the drawing board but needs to proven in the field. Another point you didn’t address about a popular brand of ZDSs is the wide toe box and how that accommodates the foot and helps prevent blisters. As you indicated at the end of this video, hike in the shoes that work for you. Enjoy the videos good luck on the CDT.

[@SchollDr]

@dennisrobinson5432 Excellent point ! I used to run in drop shoes, then started hiking with (drop) trail shoes. Then I discovered the Altra and they work wonderfully for me, my pack being in the light category. But more importantly, the wide toe box is the thing I won't quit, ever. Because of Altra's durability issues, I was trying to find Topo Athletic Pursuit at a decent price, but here in France you need to sell a kidney So I might be willing to try again moderate drop trail shoes, let's say 5 mm. But are there any models with a wide toe box in the category ?

[@dennisrobinson5432]

@@SchollDr I’ve been hiking in the Altra Olympus model for 8? years. The model 5 is extremely fragile ok a POS. Willing to try a ZD alternative.

[@oldmanandtheat3093]

Actually, it was complaints listed on various media outlets (the field) from other hikers having trouble with zero drop shoes that initiated my interest in the topic. My research was driven by three overarching questions: 1. What are the medical issues thru-hikers are experiencing with zero drop shoes compared to drop shoes (again, field observations)? 2. How and why are trail runners designed? 3. How is thru-hiking different from long distance running, and how then might shoes differ from the two? Interestingly, it was Christopher McDougall who started the revolution (or at least brought attention to it) in zero drop trail runners with his book, "Born to Run." And his exploration into the topic, eventually leading to the book, all started with Chris asking himself the simple question, "Why does my foot hurt?" I didn't address the wide toe box because the video is not a shoe review. It's about how and why trail runners are made, how thru-hiking differs from running, and how running shoe design (zero drop vs drop) might not be suited for thru-hiking. But like I specifically say in the video: if the shoe works for you, stick with it. However, if you are experiencing these medical issues (compiled from field research) that appear to be common among zero drop shoe wearers thru-hiking, then it might be worth trying a drop shoe. And I am not an engineer. But I have been a lifelong runner, completed two thru-hikes, and used to make a very good living (now retired) analyzing systems with thousands of inputs and data to figure out how and why they worked or didn't, and then how to influence output.