Zero Power Tank Install and Onboard Charger Death

[@theknifedude1881]

It’s the Old Dude again. I haven’t gotten my Zero yet. Been kinda isolating for the last year. But I got my second vaccine shot about a month ago so I’m ready to make the trip to a dealer. I think I’m probably going to Las Vegas. It’s 495 miles or 797 km. There is also a dealer in Provo Utah which is about half as far. I want to have a large selection. I’m going to be spending enough money that I want to make sure I get what I want. I’m also in the process of getting my house ready to sell. And move. The thought of having to get organized and drag my junk across the street is daunting. The housing market is hot here and I want to take advantage of this and move to a one story house. I already own the house I’ll be moving to so that is taken care of. I just turned 78 a few days ago and the weather is warming up so I’ve got to get going on this. I configured my Aptera a week ago and am making payments on a Sondors Metacycle. The Metacycle is scheduled for delivery in October. Just in time for winter! Keep up the great videos!

[@NewZeroland]

Thanks, Knife dude! Happy belated birthday to ya. That Sonders Metacycle looks really cool. I like that the styling makes sure you know it's electric. Same with the Aptera! In the year 2021, those are the kinds of vehicles we should be seeing on the roads 😁 Great choices! Which Zeros are you interested in riding?

[@Lorecastapendragon]

wish I had someone handy with zero's like you around my area, my onboard charger is still going strong after 3 years, hope it doesnt die because finding replacements parts in Australia is a nightmare.

[@NewZeroland]

I hope so too! There's always Hollywood Electrics and AF1 Racing, but chargers are crazy expensive. Good luck over there!

[@octopusenvy]

there's a chance to buy some diginow chargers Aikirob, as 2 with a brainbox controller can be bought for 3000AUD with 2 commando plugs and inlet for T2. I can bring them over next month to Melbourne.

[@BlazinBlades]

Any chance Zero solved this issue on their newer bikes? Really on the fence about a new DSR Thanks 🙏 BB

[@octopusenvy]

Glad ur bike is now charging fully to 100%...long may it continue! Looking forward to fixing it all up and getting my powertank working as it's a real epic effort to get this here in NZ only to be thwarted on install. Here's hoping next week proves some success.

[@NewZeroland]

You got this man!! It'll be the longest range Zero in NZ.

[@octopusenvy]

hmm, i wanna say it already is without sounding like a dick lol. but yeah certainly longest range with charger and powertank combined :)

[@dumpthepump247]

Bit late to the party but I would like one thing for le safety: Before you do stuff on the controller make sure all the capacitors are discharged, they hold charge for some time even after switching the bike off. Zero has a special tool for it, but it is basicly a lightbulb with an Anderson connector that you frot in the Aux port.

[@NewZeroland]

Good call man. I've heard it's good to wait 10 min.

[@pinaero]

Tick tick boom. Authorities reported Zero casualties. 😘

[@NewZeroland]

HAHA cool guys don't look at plasma balls.

[@bunberrier]

Wouldnt there be some kind of surge on connecting because the new battery pack almost certainly will have a different voltage than then one its. connected to.

[@NewZeroland]

Yep, I think that was the issue. They'd need to be balanced first.

[@bunberrier]

@@NewZeroland There could definitly be a problem Im not thinking of here but probably the voltage difference is in mV, that small. Ordinary resistors along with a high quality multi meter all thats needed probably, with a provision so that you can connect the battery packs to the bike while your balancing apparatus is still attached, then you remove it. If you dont want to wait long you could use a very low resistance, like a lead acid battery tester.

[@kandinrobinson2090]

I ran into Nigel at Boyds motorcycles back when I owned my WR450 super moto. Friendly dude and very nice bike.

[@NewZeroland]

Whoa, small world! Nigel is suuuuper nice. He helped out a LOT when we installed chargers on this bike later that day. I hope we meet again someday.

[@cedricpelloux9554]

hey, maybe I'm late to the party but the unofficial wiki states this : Dealership Install Requirement An install requires dealership access to: Check and match firmware revisions between the Power Tank, Power Pack, and MBB.

[@NewZeroland]

It's very possible he'll need a firmware update to get it working. I hope that's not the case, though.. since we don't have a dealership here.

[@thetunebot]

Nice work gents. I'm a ZERO owner down the road in Raglan. Any suggestions on where i can get my bike serviced in Waikato? :)

[@NewZeroland]

Nice! Cool to hear about more Zero riders here. Which model do you have? And what kind of service do you need? Most mechanical stuff can be done by any motorcycle shop, but unfortunately firmware updates require a dedicated laptop and a special cable.

[@250MotoMark]

Good video! I’m still trying to decide if I’m going to just go stock with the ds or if I should go with a power tank or charge tank.

[@NewZeroland]

Thanks! Power tank seems like the way to go, man. Longer range makes the rides way more comfortable.. and you can add on aftermarket chargers later if ya want. Someone bought a used charge tank and keeps it in a top box XD

[@250MotoMark]

NewZeroland yes I believe your right about that. It’s range people seem to want.

[@rsrcshaner]

Didn't know the onboard charger could die like that, kinda makes it misleading if you thought the battery was degrading instead.

[@NewZeroland]

Always good to check the charger first. These batteries are really solid, at least after 2013.

[@caspianprince]

@@NewZeroland was it out of warranty?

[@NewZeroland]

@@caspianprince Oh yeah, way out XD

[@NewZeroland]

@@johnmilner0859 Yep. It's ridiculous.

[@octopusenvy]

@@johnmilner0859 there's actually some talk about the bike design blowing any charger in SOME of the bikes...like the way they were wired or something. No further details and no culpability or admittance by the company, but one has to wonder.

[@MilesBellas]

I'm interested in seeing Wellington. Maybe a helmet mount for the 360 camera? The Putangirua Pinnacles may be an interesting drive? Why not go off roading near Red Rocks ? see a sea lion? Also check out Muritai...... that area can be epic for some reason. Maybe there are trails?

[@NewZeroland]

Great idea! I should take thr unicycle out to Red Rocks :D

[@MilesBellas]

@@NewZeroland You can't take the Zero? too risky? saltwater damage? the trail seems idea for a motorcycle; plus the low volume will not disturb the wildlife as much.

[@marks4058]

@@MilesBellas The red rocks trail has sections of deep sand/gravel and some water crossings. It's not a good ride for a road bike.

[@MilesBellas]

@@marks4058 I have biked and hiked through there many times. It's a mix......I know..... One pal took his jeep wrangler out there. An Oset 24.R could be ideal for NZ countryside and wilderness.

[@NewZeroland]

@@MilesBellas I don't have off-road tires, and the bike is too heavy for that kinda thing. Maybe a Zero FX, or Alta Redshift.

[@spikesr1]

KZbin is making it very difficult to watch these in order, but if I remember correctly, you uninstalled the stock converter to replace it with your homemade charge pack. Why would your homemade charge pack not charge your battery to 100%?

[@NewZeroland]

Oh yeah I took my aftermarket chargers off the bike because I was having issues with them. I sold them to the guy in this video and traded him for his stock one.

[@enriquemurillo4665]

Hi! You know where I could find a retailer on the internet to buy a new charger? I found the manufacturer but it looks like they don't sell directly.

[@NewZeroland]

Yep, you can buy them from AF1 Racing or Hollywood Electrics.

[@enriquemurillo4665]

@@NewZeroland Thanks, Ill check them

[@caffeinated_corgi]

We're they able to get the power tank installed? I have 2020 zero s and am looking to install one and this video made it seem so easy

[@NewZeroland]

Nope.. you can plug it in yourself but you need a dealer to update the firmware so the batteries talk to each other.

[@caffeinated_corgi]

@@NewZeroland with the new app it says we can update firmware ourselves, would that work?

[@NewZeroland]

@@caffeinated_corgi only on 2017+ models

[@Xrusader]

My onboard charger died a couple of months ago on my 2015 SR. Zero replaced it free of charge - so no complaints here.

[@NewZeroland]

Nice! I've heard of so many people outside of the 2 year warranty that had to buy their own replacements. Glad they took care of you.

[@Tomos13]

@@NewZeroland How much do they cost out of warranty?

[@NewZeroland]

@@Tomos13 $800usd

[@Miata822]

Power tank install looks easier than I expected. Did they get it working?

[@NewZeroland]

It really should be plug n play, but something is up, so he's going to use a digidongle to check out what's going on.

[@bakotako]

@@NewZeroland I really wonder how this works... I mean the two batteries are in parallel and one is obviously bigger than the other one, which means uneven draw between the two. I wonder if the BMS is crapping out cuz it detects too high a voltage difference between the two. But, to my first point, I wonder how this is being done; the BMS must be regulating the amp draw between the two or holding the tank extender in reserve? I work with a DIY 72V 16aH 3kW ebike with a gas generator embedded in the bike frame. 116V is actually not that impressive for a retail e-motorcycle; I thought it be higher than that especially now with the 800V Taycan. I am glad you are going with Lightening for the next bike. What voltage is that one?

[@NewZeroland]

@@bakotako yeah, very good points! If the voltage is different between the batteries, they won't play well together. Then it's advised that you charge them both up to 100% together to balance the cells before riding. I think therr was some safety regulation behind the 116V limit.. like it's cheaper to do if you sell a system below 120V, or something. The Lightnings are 300V, so they should charge a lot faster, too!

[@allewton]

@@bakotako actually I have a 2018 Zero SR zf14.4. So I had to get a 3.6kwh power tank. Because the big 14.4 is actually 4 3.6's together. So when you add the power tank it adds the 5th same size battery in parallel with the other 4 batteries. I'm not sure about other Zero bikes with different size batteries.

[@bakotako]

@@allewton cool stuff dude!

[@Roubamen]

Fantastic job...!!!! I’ve a dude: it is plug and play or is necesary to program de S/N?? Sorry, my english is very bad. I’m from Spain...

[@NewZeroland]

Thanks! It should be plug and play, but there might be a trick to getting it to work. Maybe firmware update? Maybe balancing the cells? I don't know yet.

[@Roubamen]

NewZeroland So, haven't you seen the range of autonomy increased?

[@NewZeroland]

@@Roubamen he's still trying to get it to work, but it should add another ~30 miles of range.

[@Roubamen]

Hello again, I have consulted with an ex dealer and he told me this: “At most you will have to update FW in case the one of the powertank was different from that of the Monolith (or vice versa)

[@masy_youtubecreators]

Hi I did buy also the 3.6 power tank battery recently and I’m thinking installing this on my own on the last video can you tell me what did it go wrong why it showing a error when they installed it in how to prevent not to hide the error thank you

[@NewZeroland]

Hey Masi, apparently you need a dealer / service center to install it. They balance the cells of both battery packs together and update the firmware to work with the power tank.

[@derkhaslol]

@@NewZeroland Thanks for the info! I also bought a 3.6 battery and luckily my dealer wants to install it. I just want to be sure I got all the right items to hand over: Power Tank Harness , Power Tank Assy and ofcourse the 3.6 battery. Am I missing something?

[@allewton]

How were you able to get the power tank in your hands? That's what I've been trying to do. Also how did you do the required update that they say only the dealer can do. Thanks.

[@NewZeroland]

I think he got the powertank from Hollywood Electrics, but it takes a dealer to update the firmware to get it to work, unfortunately. He still hasn't gotten it working.

[@allewton]

@@NewZeroland ok. I'm so glad you made this video. Thanks for replying! And I really hope yall eventually get it working.

[@NewZeroland]

@@allewton Thanks man!

[@garycunningham5562]

I’m trying to troubleshoot charging issues with my 2015 FX (in Aus) at the moment, I have the diminishing charge problem, down to 86% now and the mV out of balance sitting at 206, was yours that high?

[@NewZeroland]

Whoa.. nope, my cells were still pretty low when it was around 80%. I wish I knew more to help you out. If there's another Zero nearby with a charger you could use (to see if that's the issue) that would be good to test.

[@garycunningham5562]

No local Zeros in North Queensland that I know of, anyway I’ll keep battling with it, thanks for the videos.

[@NewZeroland]

@@garycunningham5562 good luck man! I'm not sure how to read the logs, but if you're able to access those through the app, someone online, or Zero, might be able to help diagnose it.

[@nahnahson]

Hi! Do they sell after market power tanks?

[@NewZeroland]

Nope, unfortunately you have to have a dealer install one.

[@stevenb7319]

Hahaha. Great video. At 2:32 you seemed to have picked up a bit of an accent. I’m not sure you have shown that part of the bikes insides yet. That’s sweet that you got a charger just given to you. Was that the deal for helping out with the new part install or was it just a bonus surprise? Glad to see the unicycle again. Keep up the great work.

[@NewZeroland]

Oh geez hahaha.. it's not the first time I've heard that, actually. I don't know what's happening to my accent, but it'll only get weirder the longer I stay here 😂 And the charger.. was a trade for services and some other parts I had. It worked out great!

[@CRPerformance1]

Love the sweatshirt. I got the neoprene jacket for christmas a few years back. People ask me if I work for Tesla. I don't, but I've bought 2 and convinced 3 other people to buy one.

[@NewZeroland]

Thanks! I can't afford a Tesla at the moment so the hoodie is as close as I can get 😂 (in NZ the cheapest Model 3 is $72k)

[@CRPerformance1]

@@NewZeroland that's a lot of coin. Mine was $75k in 2018, but that was the performance version (without the performance package. Sleeper version.) plus I get a $7500 tax break. My wife has a dual motor Y. Both red. She went full nerd copying me.

[@NewZeroland]

@@CRPerformance1 haha niiiice! All red garage?! 😂 Is your Eva red too? Man the performance Model 3 is over $100k here. We're gettin screwed!

[@CRPerformance1]

@@NewZeroland I have an unhealthy obsession with red things - except motorcycles. Those are Grey. My last 4 cars were red. Except for my rune, all my motorcycles were/are Grey or black. I'm down to 2 cars and 3 motorcycles now. 2 Victorys, an Energica and 2 Teslas. 2 years ago I had 13 combined.

[@NewZeroland]

@@CRPerformance1 your electric vehicles now outnumber the gas ones!

[@InvokePerformance]

Does your on board charger get super hot while charging?

[@NewZeroland]

Yep! Absolutely.

[@InvokePerformance]

NewZeroland ok thanks I was really worried and I bet that this one of the main factors that contributes to them failing over time.

[@NewZeroland]

@@InvokePerformance yeah it could be. Very little is known about why they've been failing. On some bikes, they last a long time, but some only a few thousand miles.

[@thomasansley539]

Can you please tell me the error codes he is getting! I have a used 2015sr and I replaced my onboard and found out it has a power tank installed that has never worked since I got it I am getting error codes and wondering if the guy did it himself and it needs the firmware or if it is just a dead power tank, if you could let me know what error codes he is having that would save me alot of trouble. I have error 25, 57, 48, and 49.

[@NewZeroland]

Oh man.. yeah he was getting error code 25, which is about the contactor not closing. That made neither battery work. Turns out he needed to charge the bike to 100% first. I'm not sure what other gremlins are in your bike though, sorry.

[@qwendalily681]

All me and my homies love Nigal

[@NewZeroland]

He's such a great dude!

[@qwendalily681]

@@NewZeroland by the way what are the stats of the zero s after adding a power tank?

[@NewZeroland]

@@qwendalily681 ahh we could never get it to work. It required a firmware update and we can't do that in NZ, sadly.

[@qwendalily681]

@@NewZeroland ahhh oh no that sucks :/ do you know where I could find the stats tho?

[@NewZeroland]

@@qwendalily681 stats on that pack? I think it was a ~3kWh if that's what you mean. Jef might still have it if you're interested.

[@aaronfuksa2047]

I won't dare charge to 100%, but in zeros set parameters i heard its actually 95%. So 90% is 85% or less charged state of battery 👍, & the actual state of stress its put in. I don't even want to believe in "top" balancing, due to the time it takes in that stressing state of 4.1v or higher.

[@NewZeroland]

So you've never balanced your cells? It's totally fine to charge up to 100% as long as you ride the bike afterwards. If it just sits at 100% for years it'll slowly degrade, but 100% isn't as bad as 0%.

[@aaronfuksa2047]

@@NewZeroland I've been oddly curious about balancing at 20%/25%, then letting the bms system do a charger safety shut off for when its 90% or reachest high temp, or when a "cell" gets low to 20% to shut power to controller. Sucks as a manual process for balancing, rather than a easier balancing when topping up. Wanted a longer battery life, especially if i don't install a cooling system. Been leaning toward newer lifepo4 tech.

[@aaronfuksa2047]

I know about this battery, I'm up for a comparible battery with such energy density!? This makes a 3.5 kwh 18650 setup look bulky & weak. Searching for the next best battery tech for an extreme ebike.

[@NewZeroland]

Yeah I think at the time Zero had the most energy-dense batteries available. I'm not sure who has them now.. probably Tesla.

[@ieism1]

I just bought an FXS, could you not drag the bike behind a car on a dolly for a track day or a holiday? How fast would you think it would regen (charge) doing that?

[@NewZeroland]

I'd imagine that would heat the motor up a lot and be pretty sketchy with the belt drive, but they do it with Teslas. I'm not sure if regen would be faster than charging at 1C though. Maybe it would.

[@tdneVmo]

Did you plug in the cable before installing ?? Nothing shorted I guess :D Dropping that bolt on the battery almost costed you 10000 dollars :D

[@NewZeroland]

Haha, that was the controller, but yeah it's scary in there! The power tank and bike needed to have their firmwares updates, and the only way to do that is at a dealership.. so we never got it working, unfortunately.

[@tdneVmo]

@@NewZeroland Whaaat just get the update and download it yourselfes ?

[@NewZeroland]

@@tdneVmo sadly over the air updates through the app are only available on 2018+ models. This is a 2016 bike so we'd need a super expensive, impossible to get cable.

[@tdneVmo]

The comm cable is expensive ? Which type is it ? Usually it is just som bus where you need to connect two wires or something for a serial adapter.

[@NewZeroland]

@@tdneVmo I'm not sure what connector it uses but it's around $800 and only dealers can buy it from Zero. Some kinda diagnostic cable proprietary to Zero.

[@marks4058]

I'll admit to cringing a little seeing your bare fingers on those terminals. I guess the zero batteries are only 48v?

[@NewZeroland]

Haha 116V and 660A. It's potentially a dangerous thing to do, but we tried to be as careful as we could be.

[@GregHassler]

Those terminals are on the controller, and they aren't live unless the bike is on. The contactors for the battery packs are right on the batteries (that housing at the top of the power tank is the contactor) so there is no voltage at the terminals they were unscrewing.

[@marks4058]

Ah, nice to know they provide decent isolation. I'll stop cringing lol.

[@marks4058]

@@NewZeroland Useless fact of the day: 116V x 660A = 76560 joules per second = 18.2 grams of TNT per second. Yup, I think I'm gonna start measuring my bikes in TNT equivalent instead of HP/KW.

[@NewZeroland]

@@marks4058 Hahaha they make great bombs

[@LexSummer]

Traitor... you wearing a Tesla hoody 😧... Hehe just kidding :) like your vlogs as allways :) So far i recordnize it.. realy all zero-mc has issues with this small onboard chargers. And for a 20k MC you can expect at least a premium customer service.

[@NewZeroland]

Haha thanks bro! Someday I will own a Tesla. For now I'm just a fan. And yeah, my next bike will have DC fast charging :D

[@austina4189]

I'll take your old failing charger off your hands... for when my newly replaced one craps itself one of these days

[@NewZeroland]

It's definitely good to have a spare! I'll hang onto this one for a while.. at least until I sell my bike.

[@halbejiwema]

Unless you really want to ride electric due to global stuff etc, my next will not be a Zero. The 4th onboard charger in 7 years will be installed this week, 2 died in the first 2 years, the third died february 2024. A new one costs €1600! That for a motorcycle costing with powertank and hard cases over €20.000. I think right now, that is a fortune. After 7 years i wanted to buy the dsr X 2024, costing €26995, geting for the 2017 DSR black forest only €4000. In my humble opinion? The worst investment ever. See you later Zero friends, me most likely on a ICE again.