TRYING THE SUPRA PLUGS IN MY N54: NGK 94201

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Comment from yesterdays video on plug temps thanks @ nathan kayy for the share This is quoted from who's regarded as the best E85 Carburetor builder/tuner in USA with years of experience on E85 before anyone. Shoving down Big boost and nitrous through big blocks with his years of testing on Spark Plugs specifically for E85. He believes in a heat range of 7 for E85 at the coldest. Otherwise for pump fuel then colder is correct. (LONG) Worth the read if you want to learn something< If you cannot contribute with factual information, please refrain from commenting on this. Spark Plug, Hot or Cold: The difference between heat ranges in a combustion situation are 60-100 Celsius. 100 degrees Celsius = 212 degrees Fahrenheit A spark plug is said to be "hot" if it is a better heat insulator, keeping more heat in the tip of the spark plug. A spark plug is said to be "cold" if it can conduct more heat out of the spark plug tip and lower the tip's temperature. Heat from the combustion chamber escapes through the exhaust gases, the side walls of the cylinder and the spark plug itself. The heat range of a spark plug has only a minute effect on combustion chamber and overall engine temperature. A cold plug will not materially cool down an engine's running temperature. Rather, the main effect of a "hot" or "cold" plug is to affect the temperature of the tip of the spark plug. This tip temperature is what effects the burn process, especially at part throttle. Im going to say that again: This tip temperature is what effects the burn process, especially at part throttle....remember this. under higher cylinder pressures and the cooling effect of the ethanol, the 85% is harder to light than gasoline. Gasoline is added to 85% to aid in the start of combustion. In the engines we have tested, when we got the mix rich enough to see a significant amount of power change. Too much fuel and the burn would start to self extingush itself inside the combustion chamber when we used a cold plug. ( back down on power) It would then relight in the down stroke and exhaust upon exit of the engine.(exhaust popping) This will look like detonation on the plugs....and will cause most to add more fuel and pull more timing....MISTAKE! (this can also cause lifted ring lands) This extinguished/relit flame will also feel like the car rips through 1st and second gear, but when you hit the top end the car lays over and quits pulling. Know anyone in this group that has had their ring lands lift? Did the car lay over on the big end? Were they running a COLD PLUG? there were two ways to fix this, 1 reduce the amount of fuel level within the chamber so that the combustion process was clean and consistent. (less Power) OR 2 raise the combustion temps by adding a hotter plug tip so that a complete combustion process was completed during the cycle before the exhaust opens (more pressure on the piston). all this being said: with E85 (and E98.)... We tend to run the engines fat enough to make the desired power we were looking for, and we needed to up the spark plug temps to keep the burn process happy. We figured out that the 85% burns longer than Gasoline does on the cycle and less fuel was required to make the same amount of power in a set given scenario depending on compression levels.. Yes, E85 burn slower than gasoline, and E85 can reach MAX CYLINDER PRESSURES as much as 10-14* of crankshaft rotation later than gasoline would in a NA Situation ...or in English, retard is built into the fuel. If you add Boost or Nitrous this burn rate and Max cylinder pressure locations are effected even more. We have been in the labs and seen this pressure differential. which goes back to this: 1 reduce the amount of fuel level within the chamber so that the combustion process was clean and consistent. OR 2 raise the combustion temps by adding a hotter plug tip so that a complete combustion process was completed during the cycle. When I send a carb out, I send it out having the most killer/consistent tune up in it I can put, I also suggest that my customers use HOT PLUGS and leave the timing where they would have it on gasoline... I don't mind a bit of debate as I too could learn something, but unless you have tried what I have done, why question it?...I have seen both sides of this fence, rode on both....and the fatter tune/hot plug method has produced more customer wins .....for me anyway. If your still concerned about Pre-Ignition....click off this page and quit reading....as every thing written above just went right over your head and your too stubborn to listen to whats being said about the cooling effects of this fuel. A Rich Ethanol Blend tune up will NOT pre ignite with a HOT PLUG .... pre-igniton is caused by hot spots, and hot spots are not likely to occur in a chamber that has a fuel that cools the way ethanol does. Pre-ignition was claimed by someone that ran E85 in a near stock calibration....which would be lean.... E85 is prone to pre-ignition = another myth or misconception. And then you have those that race in this group that say you don't run a hot plug on E85, but yet they themselves have blown up engine after engine... or worse yet, you have those that tell their customers to run a cold plug and when your stuff blows up..."YOU did something wrong" This is just a few things we found that is based off of the last 18 years (2003) of testing, and a small part of what we feel makes us #1 in the E85 world. While im sure there will be some that will come on here and will try to discredit what we have spent years finding, I hope that you will see through those post and make an educated choice, be it what I said, or based off your past experiences, or from watching results from others in this group. Bottom line is this, E85 does NOT burn like Gasoline and cannot be tuned the same as Gasoline, so If your tuning your E85 Race engine like you would a Gasoline Engine...your leaving horsepower on the table. NA, Boosted, Spray or otherwise... Hope I have answered some of your E85 spark plug questions.... And as always, do what your comfortable with...you know your engine. Mark Sullens E85

[@nathankayy2946]

Cheers for the mention. One step colder and 0.022 is the next test 😉 www.spoolstreet.com/threads/plugs-95770-v-97506-gaps-and-the-n54.3718/page-7 post #130

[@chrisrobles2012]

I just watched another channel where the owner purchased a Honda E3P K-series with full E85 . The fuel rail AN firing was loose and spraying fuel under the hood and the main feed line was cut down below. I cannot imagine how much fuel was pouring down the entire time! The fuel never ignited ! They could have been in a big fireball had it been regular gasoline. That alone should tell you that the last paragraph about E85 not pre-igniting is pretty true. Also, E85 tunes need more fuel at start. My N54 always needs a little pedal % .

[@TML34]

The old plugs looked basically fine to me, maybe a tad lean-looking (whitish) but they were all the same. The only thing I can suggest is to look at the mating surface in the cylinder head where the crush washer sits and make sure it’s free of any carbon/dirt debris. I use the end of a wooden spoon wrapped in lint free towel and soak the towel with brake clean to get any gunk out. It makes me feel better and my car does idle like butter. Idle set at 750rpms with 0.024” 97968 plugs. No port injection, NGK pencil coils. But hey, everyone’s set up is a little different. 😀

[@colin55594]

Nothing wrong with some idle chop, your mates will know you mean business 😂

[@scottstrachan9915]

Its the beard, shave the beard for a smoother idle!

[@anthonywhelan8373]

Use some dielectric grease on those coil boots stops plug tracking and easier to get on and off

[@torentmonkey]

Try this to see if it's spark exposure that is not enough at idle. Open up the gap 20% more than you have now on some old plugs you have and see how it cold starts with that. I bet you a ton better on e85 but will blow the spark up top when boost come on. It may be a thing that you need to live with in this combination.

[@ichoozjc]

Just for a test, put stock plugs back in at stock gap. Or at least the b58 plugs at stock n54 gap. That will probably give you the best idle. However, I don't think your idle sounds that bad. There's gonna be a trade off when on E85 at high boost. You need a plug that can get you down the 1/4 mile, which is safe and gives best spark at high rpm/load. But that means you're gonna perhaps sacrifice idle quality. At the end of the day, you aren't gonna have stock silky smooth idle on a highly modified car. You are chasing a unicorn, IMO. All that matters is that you have close to zero timing corrections at your desired boost. That's what wins the race.

[@mwdh]

Check Learnbits with Inpa. In MSD80/81 main menue: F5/Shift+F6/F3, "Lernbits für Injektoren-Balancing", Line 1,2,4 should be colored. And F5/F7, "Gefilterte Laufunruhe und Lambdasonden Spannung" down left needs to be colored. Is the engine running better directly after cold start (10s) with lambda probes in open loop? If something is uncolored reset all adations (For Deleting Inpa usage recommended: F8/F2/Shift+F9, "MSD Adaptionen selektiv löschen 2", do not use MHD because I'm not sure if really all nec. adaptions can be deleted). Besides this check jitter for Vanos at idle, crankshaft sensor / rpm, afr's at idle for both banks (should be nearly a straight line in the logs. If not the case most probably your learnbits are not fully set). If everything is right, maybe... install oem plugs just for testing. ;) Have more in my mind but that would be a good starting point to check if the environment is able to reach an idle as expected for a straight 6.

[@supahone3]

I have to say the stumble is ever so slight.. Any worn fuel filter or bad ground or coil pulse caused by wires not being shielded? I was under the impression that e85 can cause fuel systems to get gummy?

[@ichoozjc]

It can. Think that's why it's recommended to run a tank of unleaded evey so often to clean things out.

[@Ddrifta]

This might sound daft, I had lumpy idle, weak battery, yellow warning light popping on dash for it now and then, tried charging it etc... When I changed the battery to a new one registered etc the car actually felt loads smoother and a bit more responsive. Far too many sensors to run a weak battery!

[@sergiovaloy4203]

Let say like your content on point all the time trying a compression I had same thing compression was down to 90 psi in cylinder 5 I wouldn't get any misfire or codes I'm also get that low battery issue can't hunt it down started with a new battery

[@pugs1377]

Good man, Antisleez on everything!!!

[@DeclanCrane]

Anything new going on with Orlly? You guys putting in a built motor? I'm super curious to see something happen with those maxpeeding rods lol

[@EDI-ve1be]

Is the fault at 8:52 A559? I get this code and that icon when I leave my bt obd adapter plugged in overnight.

[@BEAMERNOOB]

If you have a stuck plug in the future try freezing the plug socket, and let the engine run for a minute from cold, then let the plug socket sit on the plug for a minute. The head will be slightly expanded from the heat and the plug will shrink slightly from the cold of the plug.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

That’s a great tip! Thanks man.

[@BEAMERNOOB]

Gives me an idea too bad there is no such thing as variable gap and heat plugs. It could be gapped larger at idle and run a hotter heat range but the opposite under load and boost.

[@seffyq]

change the Vanos solenoids to only original BMW part, should fix that idle.

[@friguy4444]

Yesterday's video? LOL. Sorry, just being a pest. You'd sure hate the idle I'm trying to figure out right now. On cold starts it's just silly how bad it can be at moments. It always fires right up without any hesitation then when it's cold it idles like it's missing at certain times. Then it goes into using the sensors, computer etc mode after about 30 seconds and gets fairly smooth. Yet still has a miss feeling every once in a while. No codes are thrown and my plugs and coils are brand new. At pull power it's smooth and incredible with no problems at all. Drives me nuts! Anyway Thank you for the great content you provide all the time!

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Any chance you have an injector leak?

[@MatthewGlad]

I would always solder to give a better connection.

[@kgsva]

could you put on the standard N54 coils with B58 plugs to see if they make a decent connection and work fine?

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

I’d need to try it on a different car and make sure they run fine, they feel like they pop in but need to make sure

[@kgsva]

@@ZeroTo60Tube oh definitely! yes maybe not on one of the more built cars

[@rd1965]

Those exhaust tips look wet with oil. Also more visible vapour in the exhaust than I would call normal, if that were my car i'd be trsting the leakdown and checking the turbos. Try degreasing the tips and see how long they stay fresh.

[@NCMcLaren]

*joins KZbin 3 days ago and is already dishing out advice

[@rd1965]

Since when did youtube profile age have any indication of someones knowledge on cars? I've had 4 N54 powered cars over the last 10 years and done turbos, head rebuilds, stem seals, timing chain and trans rebuilds so I have a pretty good idea of how they should run.

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

Thanks for the thought man. The tips on this car have always been pretty black. And in winter here the condensation coming out of the exhaust never seems to end.

[@DefaultLoginDetaiIs]

It would explain the choppy idle. I had bad stem seals and my idle suffered as a result. Would make a good video as you can combine it with changing cam ledge seals or even adding high lift cams.

[@donsirsimon]

Hey! I have to replace rear main seal on my n54 with DCT trans. Do you have any recommendations for what to replace "while you are in there" ? Have to drop transmission for that job... Thanks! On spark plugs: im not heavily tuned... simple stage 1 tune + DCI only. I replace sparkplugs regularly. Last time i tried N55 stock plugs (1 step colder) gapped them at what internet told me.. 0.022 i think. Started having ruffer cold idle... low down felt less powerful... on boost higher rpm it was fine... maybe even better. Finally got rid of them and went back to stock plugs. Low rpm seems better and idle when engine is cold is smooth. I probably went for colder plugs too soon as im not even full bolton yet... So dont change to colder plugs just because you can... do it when you need to...

[@ZeroTo60Tube]

The mechatronics connector oring on the dct and the mechatronics pan are probably the only two to worry about.

[@StratoJohn]

You must have a keen ear, choppy idle seems barely noticeable

[@anthonywhelan8373]

You need to learn how to read plugs correctly before trying different heat ranges put close ups of the heat strap and porcelain please

[@Tasmanianangel]

Fuel injector

[@NCMcLaren]

If you open the gap you’ll have an even idle but will likely misfire on boost. You’ll need to find your happy medium.

[@RomeoGoesRetro]

another win for the 17Ts, you seen this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZDFk6J_oLGKkJo

[@andreysedgwick9613]

First