TF2: The Official Spy Weapons Tier List

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Heavy Tier List: • TF2: The Official Heav...
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Intro Music
Surprise But Sechs- Dutvutan aka Syrsa aka Scoutellite
Outro Music
Ball Point- Adhesive Wombat
00:00 Intro
00:47 Disguise Kit
05:10 Kunai
08:08 Dead Ringer
10:15 L'tranger
12:38 Diamondback
15:31 Enforcer
17:21 Red Tape
19:16 Sapper
23:27 Invis C&D
25:25 Big Earner
26:18 Stock Knife
27:48 Revolver
29:56 Spycicle
32:51 YER
36:02 Amby

[@ZestyJesus]

This tier list was released early because we covered the Spy and Medic in one stream (not a lot of items to discuss for either class). So expect the Medic Tier list before next Thursday as well. Thanks for watching guys, we're halfway there! You all seem to be enjoying this series, which makes me happy. It's been fun streaming them, and also fun seeing what you all have to say about the game. Have a good one!

[@kared791]

can't wait.

[@TreyAnimates]

ok that makes sense

[@daddynolegs]

could you redo this series of tier lists per class, but instead of ranking them based on viability you rank them based on how cool the model and sound design is? similar to the skins tier list.

[@hunterbayow]

I agree about kunai nerf

[@AnnaSue81]

good stuff, very wow

[@StickMaster500]

I’ve always liked the idea to give the Your Eternal Reward back it’s old stats from the Saharan Spy set with it’s reduced decloak sound volume and maybe the 0.5 second longer cloak blink time to definitely make it more useful, especially if you’re trying to backstab someone while undisguised.

[@bruschetta7711]

it's my favourite knife, despite what people say about how easy is to counter a spy, in the heat of a battle this is really perfect for picking target and being completely unnoticed, enough to go away or pick one more enemy Plus i love the gimmick against engineers, where you can't essentially get close to a sentry, but if you do, you can just kill whoever is near without being destroyed in a nanosecond

[@theansweris9]

There you are, how's it going stickmaster?

[@Ban-zx9se]

8:59

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@bruschetta7711 its really easy to notice an undisguised spy, and once you are noticed this weapons gimmick is completely redundant. what they need to do is remove the cloak drain thing and for the love of god add spy speed from highgps rebalance mod so that you dont have to walk at a snails pace after killing heavies.

[@GonBluV]

I love using the YER as it is, but sure I'll take that buff THANK YOU

[@MeestahreL]

Fun Fact: Removing RedTapeRecoder from a sentry gun instantly replenishes it's ammo, and, teles and dispencers are useful INSTANTLY after removal.

[@mmmapplesauce1673]

But, it also removes all metal from dispensers

[@linear1224]

Actually that gives me an idea on how to make the RTR a little more useful, why not make it so on top of reducing levels it could also delete sentry ammo, deplete dispenser metal reserves and reset the teleporter and add an addition 2 secs to it's recharge time after the RTR is removed.

[@TheJosiahTurner]

the sentry also is leveled down though

[@linear1224]

@@TheJosiahTurner Yeah I know, it makes it better because a level 2 sentry with no ammo is better than a level 3 sentry with no ammo, or even a level 1 sentry with no ammo. Same goes for the teleporters and dispensers.

[@MeestahreL]

@@mmmapplesauce1673 It doesn't anymore.

[@xesreod4760]

I remember back when I played TF2 religiously, around 2012-2014, that there was a glitch, bug, exploit, oversight, etc. that allowed you to press F to check your teammates' loadouts while they were running around. If you did that to someone on your team, you saw what they had equipped, but if you did that to a disguised spy, you saw either his loadout or stock (kind of hard to remember after so many years, but it was a dead give away). You basically could mash F on anybody looking the tiniest bit suspicious and instantly know if they were a spy. I'm glad that got fixed, since it pretty much made any spy trying to blend in think that you're cheating when you shoot at them randomly. I don't know if this was well known at the time, and probably got lost to time, but it definitely made spy extremely weak to play while disguised. Also, of course, nowadays it displays the loadout of the person the spy is disguised as properly, so don't think you found a new broken spy-check.

[@japhinebarsalote4081]

Wait, so you don't vigorously spy check places already?

[@getshrekt6933]

the tapping f to check teammates loadouts isn't a bug, its a feature, but ya the spy thing was probably unintentional

[@blockwearingman]

well

[@lizzygizzyguy]

The amby was nerfed because of high damage at a long range? Hmm, it's almost as if there's an entire class based around that concept...

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Exactly, hense why DB is a l s o not op, since unlike *certain long range class*, DB has a price for long range dmg

[@sayori3016]

Maybe it’s because that one class is based off that long range shot while the spy is a melee class with a gun

[@johnnodwarf1201]

@@danielsurvivor1372 ‘price’ = messing with a fresh install engineer and backstabbing snipers and heavies

[@zelpyzelp]

This argument doesn't really hold water considering Sniper ain't a melee-range class with the ability to go invisible or disguise himself lmao Sniper is long range damage but he's also a one trick pony for the most part whereas Spy has *so* many ways they can mess with you in addition to the Amby's headshots

[@afqwa423]

@@danielsurvivor1372 Sniper has built-in tunnel vision. He definitely has an in-built opportunity cost for what he does.

[@trevorrose3769]

Fun fact about the Diamondback: 13:15 Zesty mentions how it originally got crits by only doing backstabs before also getting it by sapping buildings alongside a backstab. However, it was the other way around. Originally, the diamondback could only get its crits through sapping engineer buildings. This was later reworked because if the enemy team didn’t have an engineer at all, you essentially were playing with a worse stock revolver that had a damage penalty. That’s why it’s such a terrifying gun nowadays. Because of how mediocre it was in the past. Essentially, it was the Manmelter for spy in the sense of if the enemy didn’t have one specific class on their team, your weapon couldn’t really reach its full potential and was just holding you back.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Fun fact, it's only banned on highlander and only because you can farm crits from teleporters destroyed... It's perfectly balanced if it just got crits from backstabs considering how hard it is

[@ME0WMERE]

@@danielsurvivor1372 great, yet another weapon that's balanced in comp but broken in casual

[@conee1499]

what if theres no enemy team? then you're just playing a worse version of stock. cant believe valve didnt think about that smh

[@Thebooooy]

The c&d discussion was the most accurate thing I've ever heard. When I first started playing spy, I always hated it because I would always run out of cloak at the most unfortunate times. Then I got the cloak and dagger, and that really changed my playstyle. I played with only the c&d for maybe a month, idk, then realized I was going really slowly, and not being able to pick up cloak while invisible really sucks. I went back to stock, (now being more experienced and knowing more about ammo locations) and realized it was always a really good choice. What you said has never been more accurate about this weapon: It's the training wheels for new spies.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

One more thing to note about the C&D: it's a little-but-noticeable bit louder than the stock watch. If you're in a quieter spot of the map doing spy things, this should be considered.

[@dcmonnie]

And even after getting better with the stock watch, the C&D is still a very good side grade to the stock watch on servers where you need to take your time a little more and choose your battles more carefully

[@Thebooooy]

@@dcmonnie it's meant for a few niche situations, while stock is a jack of all trades.

[@prawn1717]

And it's still useful in more competitive lobbies because sometimes there ARE those situations where the enemy team is pushing the cart down a choke and there are pyro flames EVERYWHERE, and in those cases, calling information from a hiding spot can be super useful.

[@johnnodwarf1201]

Apparently the cloak and dagger also has a hidden stat of 20% decloak speed, which if that’s true is awful

[@grittytenacious6004]

“Spy, I ain’t gonna watch YOUR tier list!” “Errhehehehe”

[@Thereisnogreatersword]

I’d personally extend the amby range a bit enough so it would reward constant precision by outperforming the stock at a medium ish range

[@bruschetta7711]

yeah at the range you can hit heads, i found myself hitting consistantly with the revolver, and since the revolver has no cooldown between headshots, it's imo overall better and easier to use, the benefits of the headshots only come against light classes where the follow up shot can kill them, or when picking injured target, i'm ok with removing the infinite range 102 headshot, but it should just deal consistantly 102 damage, no damage falloff. it's preatty pointless to track a tiny head for 60 damage, when i could have emptied the whole clip with the revolver hoped to get 2 or 3 shots and get the kill anyway

[@TheJosiahTurner]

it does though landing a headshot and a bodyshot can kill most classes at mid range

[@Thereisnogreatersword]

@@TheJosiahTurner 52 damage + 18 does not = 125 my friend

[@TheJosiahTurner]

@@Thereisnogreatersword what the hell kind of range are you playing at where you’re doing 18 damage per shot? What makes you think that with the revolver’s spread -and what, 4 extra damage at max falloff?- you’re going to get better results from it at that range? What makes you think spy should be effective at a range where his gun suffers from almost max falloff? At base damage range, 102+32>125 yes the diamondback takes this and flips it on its head and that’s why it’s overpowered

[@Thereisnogreatersword]

@@TheJosiahTurner currently the range of the ambassador for crits is just longer than 2fort bridge. That’s mid range. But the crits have falloff so you end up doing 52 ish dmg

[@QuazzleTheQaz]

Also the Dead Ringer's "feign" death is completely nullified because if the spy doesn't actually die his silhouette at the top middle of the screen never shows up, if people didn't already know that. It feels more like a "get out of jail" card than a deceiving card.

[@tfolz1351]

instead of running away like a bitch, i go for the kill again then fucking die.

[@undefind3426]

That had been fixed

[@vivelespatat2670]

@@undefind3426 the Spy's silhouette only appears for the duration of the dead ringer speed boost.

[@dioniscaraus6124]

Spy doesn't even do any role the best, getting picks is easier with sniper/scout (and actually living after) and Soldier/Demo with right items are more effective at dealing with sentries.

[@sud1881]

Disabling wrangler and the sentry ability to shoot or be healed temporarily even if it’s just two hits is good for assisting a soldier or demo to destroy the sentry

[@dioniscaraus6124]

@@sud1881 They could just use their splash dmg to kill the engie though. Two soldiers or demos would be able kill the sentry and keep fighting rather than dying shortly after like a spy would (unless they had a dead ringer obv).

[@dinkle3206]

He memes the best though Also if you want a sick kill compilation play spy and trickstab. Lol. Hes kind of just my go to meme class.

[@hmmm4989]

Yeah but getting picks that are protected/hidden is where spy excels at. He can also take out hidden teleporters.

[@vivelespatat2670]

Spy does it in the most unique way, that's enough for me to play him

[@joanaguayoplanell4912]

I have to thank the Dead Ringer for teaching me to sneak around uncloaked so well, to the point I play EVERY class like I was playing Spy, and it WORKS. There is no better feeling than catching a straggler within my KGB, then revving up my Iron Curtain right behind the enemy medic and wipe the floor with him and his team

[@tylerpeterson3281]

The red tape is a troll weapon, you piss everyone else off when you use it, mostly engies who need to re-level their stuff, but also your team if they realize what you're doing

[@meem6154]

Lol

[@Master_Brutus]

Sometimes the red tape can be good. Its most effective against a more fortified nest, cause with stock they can undo all your effort. With the red tape at least you do something to the nest, and make the engineers waste metal and time to get the nest back up to level 3.

[@galegopaulista4564]

I thought there had already been been a tier list this week, but I ain't complaining.

[@theghosttm8245]

Check the new pinned comment.

[@dipshittylerbitch]

I miss the old Enforcer when it had increased damage when undisguised. That was a much better mechanic because it forced you to show yourself in order to use the upside

[@theghosttm8245]

Thoughts (coming from someone who has most time on Spy) : Diamondback I have some ideas. 1)Mini crits instead of crits 2) Cut the clip in half 3) make it only get crits from backstabs and sentries Kunai I agree with your thoughts to make that overheal go away faster. I love the kunai but Jesus can I feel guilty at times when I should’ve died YER I think needs a small buff. lower or remove the faster cloak drain and its better I use it in the set it’s part of and it’s pretty fun to me. Without the Letranger I would likely unequip it or use it on some maps or modes. Spycicle IDK what to do tbh. Idk if you saw it but someone mentioned maybe you can determine when it melts when you take fire damage so (should I use the melt and get away or try and get the kill but risk dying before I get it) idk I thought it was an interesting idea. For the red tape recorder maybe increase the time it takes to destroy a building ? The enforcer I would say change the dmg bonus to be universal so it always does more damage making more sense for the slower firing speed IF needed it can be lowered since I don’t make games and that would need testing. Also I love the idea of Spy pressing a key to move his normal speed when disguised as slower classes. Would make me disguise as Soldier Demo and Heavy more often. Also idk if it’s possible but remove the ability to use console and use cl interp. It’s such bs and I don’t like it when I’m doing good as Spy and someone accuses me of using it. Like fuck me for being good or you being bad. Love the video Zesty and I cannot wait to see Medic since you hate the Vaccinator and I have no idea why. Maybe because I use it and I rarely fight other medics using it.

[@mrprick4693]

Maybe for the spycicle you can remove fire on demand by pressing R or mouse3. That way I could control my backstabs and that scorch shitting pyro from 5 miles

[@PRO100SashaX]

Enforcer USED TO have universal damage bonus, and it was broken dumb shit because at point-blank or around that it two-shoted 125 hp classes. I'd say an unique way to change this revolver is to allow it to have one shot per disguise which doesn't remove said disguise, and remove damage bonus. Of course sound is still as loud as it is.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

1) Idea is crap. It will inly outdamage stock by 10~ points due to damage nerf Diamondback has. Seriously I'm so sick of this idea being pushed. 2)No, also it wouldn't fix the issue with DB in Highlander, the reason it's banned there is because teams are forced to always have engy, and it makes it very easy to farm crits from teleporters hense why 3) Idea is actually great... I came up with it like years ago(although I suggested no crits from any buildings) but whatever Idc, just please do the nerf DB to shitter, it's not even close to being op and it's only op in Highlander due to the format forcing enemy team to always have engineer. Without buildings farming, DB sucks hense it's not used in 6s or even regular Tf2 where sometimes teams don't have engies.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

@@PRO100SashaX Ah yes, Spy being able to two shot light classes is sooooo op... It's not like *every single class except Pyro(and technically Heavy but his dps is huge so it offsets the fact he has high fire rate) can do just that Scouts can two shot l.c. Soldiers can do that with all stock weapons Pyro can with a shotgun or flares. Demo can with all stock Heavy has insane dps close range and shotgun also two shots Engineer can two shot Spies (but spies can't two shot them back ans frontier justice can ONE SHOT Spy but spy can't one shot with DB, ah yes because it's not like spy is supposed to be ENGINEER COUNTER ofc let's make it so in direct combat Engy almost always wins) Medic can with melee or Crossbow Sniper can ONE shot light classes from ANY distance and two shot with melee. All melees can also ONE shot l.c. with random crits. And spy can only one shot you... If he manages to backstab/trickstab you... Which is hard as sh*t, while his peeshooter, at max ramp up only does 6 0 dmg, meaning he can't even two shot light classes. Not even Sniper or Engineer, the classes that are supposed to be WEAK against Spy...

[@PRO100SashaX]

@@danielsurvivor1372 if spy is discovered he should be at a disadvantage. That's his game design. So he should three-shot light hp classes, that is (one of) his weakness - low raw dps in head to head combat. Sniper is designed in the same way, too bad he can just instaclick with all of his decent primaries no matter the range, while by design this should be done in preparation and at decent range. That's because of bad balance and mechanics done wrong, not bad design. But who knows, maybe Valve did intented sniper to be overpowered... Melees hit hard but their range is non existent. They have pretty long time between hits as well excluding scout (at least compared to revolver and even enforcer). You can still hit hard with any revlover at close but not melee range, I'm pretty sure old enforcer used to two-shot from pretty decent distance, at least twice as long as swords.

[@jackie_lope]

At least the Red Tape has the stalling of mini senties for engines. The super long animation prevents them from building another one unless they actively go to remove the sapper, the regular sapper kills the mini so much quicker, allowing for quicker placement of minis

[@pandemonium2536]

That and while it doesn't lower health as much on a normal sentry, it lowers the health for way longer. 36 damage by a normal sapper? Swing like three times and it's back to full, 36 damage via redtape? 200 metal a minimum of 8 swings.

[@abirbhattacharji9345]

Same thing Zesty and a lot of others(me included) hate a weapon made to only counter ONE specific class, in this case a subclass of all things. Really lackluster

[@KalabrosVanHouten]

The Spy from TF2 kinda reminds me of the Spy from Stratego: he can be beaten by anyone, but he's the only one that can beat the Marshal

[@timtamthemememan5094]

Here's an idea for red tape recorder/new sapper. Make it half/lower the effectiveness of buildings as well as smaller size in the building and no notification to the engineer. Things like doubled teleporter recharge time, encouraging the engineer to check up on his buildings, and giving a more long lasting effect that isn't hampered by the ability to destroy the building quicker with stock

[@glad16252]

I think with the Spycicle, a good addition would be if when you're invisible, if you melee with this weapon it would break it, and with the ice particles all going around you it would A: Prevent afterburn like it would normally, but B: Make it so you don't shimmer from being shot or bumping into anyone for either until your melee recharges or you uncloak. It would give it an extra use other than anti-Pyro, because over all weapons shouldn't be designed to fuck over 1 class. That's an issue I have with Sniper's backpacks as well but we'll get to that when we get to the Sniper video

[@vyor8837]

Pyro itself fucks over the spy

[@glad16252]

@@vyor8837 Yes. He does.

[@vyor8837]

@@glad16252 so why shouldn't spy have something to mitigate that?

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

the spycicle now is a really really bad anti class weapon, probably the worst in the game because you lose out on trickstabbing the pyro and you can still be killed very easily even with afterburn immunity, like seriously just use the dead ringer then.

[@glad16252]

@@vyor8837 I never said taking away the mechanic it has now. Just adding something else so it isn't only an anti pyro weapon

[@Raelyn]

Severely underestimating the Enforcer. There's nothing situational about being able to do true damage to a Wrangled Sentry. Literally the only weapon of its kind that can do it, directly counters one of the strongest unlocks in the game. Engies get fucked over by it because they can't outrepair your damage to it whilst the Wrangler shield is active. Plus when disguised it can 2 shot a light health class, that's honestly pretty darn good. On average it's not as great as the other Revolvers true, but it has an incredibly powerful niche in just being able to piss off Wrangler Engies, who are arguably one of the main reason matches can turn aids. Definitely doesn't need a rework, it's a brilliant option in my comp games, as well as pubs from time to time. I also think you're undervaluing what Spycicle gives too. True it has a major negative, but those small upsides can really add up in certain games. It can be recharged with ammo packs too, so it's not like you have to sit around doing nothing when you've lost it. I really value it half the time. Aside from that, I agree with pretty much every other take. Glad to see others sharing my thoughts on the Kunai, I hate it lol. Also love seeing some advocating for the Ambassador. Revolver will outperform it on average, but Amby can pull off some clutch shit close range that Revolver can't, and I still value it for that. Definitely underrated. Plus it's still just fun af. I wish it was a LITTLE stronger at longer ranges, but it's fine the way it is.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

its only good for getting more time to reposition your aim, other than that it doesnt pierce sapped sentries and its better to sap a wrangler sentry rather than to chip it from afar. also the 2 shot thing only really works at really close range (72 + 60 damage at point blank). its not a bad weapon its just a downgrade in most situations and is really underwhelming like the huo long heater.

[@neondead2.0.15]

Dont forget that it penetrates vaccinator shield, so its good if engie has wrangled sentry or something that reduce damage.

[@purplehaze2358]

You can literally just sap a wrangled sentry.

[@charalore5764]

if you can get so close to a sentry to actively shoot it with ur revolver, why not sap it and shoot the engineer

[@tf2sushi]

Kunai is ok, just doesn't look as cool when killing people.

[@cankor6484]

Remove spawn team highlight, ever since it got introduced, playing spy is frustrating as hell. Any person with more than 5 hours in the game immediately knows where you are when they're dead/freshly respawned. I personally think the DR pre buffs and nerfs was more balanced than it is now. The speed buff is ridiculous, it makes it so I can immediately uncloak and circle strafe a whole team while waiting for the cloak to regen, whereas before, everyone just raced you to an ammo pack and instakills you. Give it increased cloak regen time, revert ammo change, remove speed and give back the armor imo. Why nerf the amby instead of the diamondback? The Amby feels horrible now, randomly missing or getting a headshot when I didn't deserve to? The diamondback is ridiculous, I don't want to use it at all because I never feel like I earned the crits for doing my job as a spy and I'd much rather feel good about my aim. Kunai NEEDS to be paired with the DR, I know that's a hot take but it's completely worthless without it if you aren't an actual god at spy, and if you ARE a god at spy you would take the combo so you don't instantaneously lose your whole HP pool from some joe shmo firing a rocket at your feet. Sure you get the ~200 health, but I don't think people fully understand that it already drains plenty fast, and if you take any damage other than chip, it's all gone in seconds. The amount of work you need to put into being relevant as spy AT ALL makes you a "sweaty" player. If you aren't putting that work in, you bottom frag every game and are absolutely dead weight on the team. Obviously by my comment, I'm a degenerate spy main (even though all TF2 players are degenerates anyway) so feel free to disagree, but this comes from 8+ years of maining the class, and I feel like my opinion is somewhat valid. Spy is not viable, and in the worst state to date out of all 9 classes, Valve, pls fix.

[@thatguybrody4819]

keep it for medic. it's frustrating as hell to go out of spawn and not know where anybody is.

[@redwarrior118]

@@thatguybrody4819 You still get medic text box bubbles that appears when someone yells medic. I say throw all the wall hacks out for everyone

[@thatguybrody4819]

@@redwarrior118 yeah it gives a vague direction sometime after you leave spawn instead of spawning in and oh there's exactly where i need to be! plus if a spy is trying to spawncamp, let him burn.

[@cankor6484]

Set your medic thing to have the notif for low health players be at max health, i promise it is super helpful. The setting is in advanced options, hope this helps

[@FBombFitzgerald]

@@thatguybrody4819 Or just remove it for only enemy spies.

[@raidminer0197]

Holy crap, this has been addicting series to watch through in a single day: just perfect balance of casual mindset and good deal of great points being made with dosage of comical impressions... I'm lovin' it! :D I can definitely agree on the Ambassador being in absolutely fine state as it is, since even Valve themselves back in the day did point out about "giving a class that can cloak an ability to head-shot at infinite range being bit too whack" even for a casual setting is pretty understandable. And while I am not certainly best with aiming to the heads of enemies I still do find current Ambassador having more intense "all-or-nothing" fights up close where with steady aiming and timing (or just by luck in my case as I'm a clumsy spy) makes it more dopanine inducing experience to land that first critical head-shot that makes the receiver immediately recoil in shock before falling to a follow-up shot or alternatively with first shot doing normal damage then the critical shot making the kill.... AAAAAH, SO MUCH AMUSEMENT AND DOPAMINE! Perfect mix to keep me occasionally trying out spy compared to "camping/hide-n-seek simulator" it allowed doing back in the day. Diamondback is definitely in need of balancing since it really is obviously just """better Ambassador""" for just doing literally what Spy is meant to do to the point that I legit always shoot any crits off with it to keep it as discount stock for memes. That said, I do believe there could be simple approach in the idea of an occasional "power-bank" without complications of giving 300% increase to damage at any range... Which leads to some of my balancing vision for Diamondback being as follows: - Remove the damage penalty to make single shot deal same as stock - Apply a 20-25% slower firing rate to the weapon. - Change the guaranteed Crits from sapping and stabbing into Mini-Crits - Change the bright glowing gun to have team-colored electric sparks as visual for mini-crit primed Diamondback. - No random crits. This basically could make combating spies using Diamondback much more on the even ground as now he isn't pulling a free 102 shot from sapping jose.gonzales2007's things to blast at you with full firing rate. Instead, this change would provide Spy with a gun that has a solid 65 damage/shot from any distance thanks to the mini-crits (48 x 1.35 = 64.8) which also negate damage-falloff: basically making Diamondback into more methodical, mid-range option with occasional buff to slap enemies with a stock melee hit damage that seems more fair compared to the normal crits (sure, it could still 3-shot medics from afar, thou that's better than getting two shot at least in my eyes). As of Enforcer, yeah... the poor bastard really could use more defined and fun use over the really specific counters to mere 8 damage resistance types (with the piercing being mostly bugged anyways). Of course the previous design was just direct upgrade to stock simply for having default higher damage/shot, which isn't much of direction I'd wanna take it understandably. Instead, your comment on Diamondback having faster firing speed (kind of like fanning shots from fast pulling of weapon) did get me ponder a possible role for Enforcer

[@nocow4167]

One change I would like on the disguise kit is how much you can mimic your siguise target. Like if you disguise as a sniper you can also do a scope in animation so that you actually look like a sniper, or you could also do heavys gun rev animation to make yourself look like a heavy. Both of these actions don't require you to shoot your gun so you wouldent lose your disguise.

[@krimson8089]

Recently it's been discovered that you can mimic class animations with other class weapons. It would honestly make disguises more dynamic than a sentry proof tool

[@fossfox]

Mimicking Heavy revving would be useless for anything except the Tomislav, since the lack of noise would be a giveaway. And for reasons that should be obvious, giving Spy an endlessly spammable noise as loud as a Heavy minigun rev would be a disaster

[@casul5309]

It's really nice you promoted the people behind your videos and other works, I've always said, "Wow, who drew that!" or, "Dang that looks cool, they inspire me."

[@MicRouSn7]

The one thing I wish they would implement for spy is the ability to make your disguise go through a reload animation or scope in as sniper. That'd make the disguise kit way more viable in my opinion. I know there's a way to make your disguise reload but it's such an overcomplicated method.

[@The_Goblin.]

I know that this is really late but spy actually does have a reload animation when disguised if you have your revolver out and reload with it, it will play the reload animation of whoever you’re disguised as

[@demomainlol2630]

Honestly, I used to be a diehard spycicle spy because I thought it would help me in the Pyro matchup. But as it turns out, you don't need afterburn immunity. You just need the frickin gun and bang bang goes the arsonist. Really feel like Zesty's right on the revolver front, soon as you learn that you've peaked with the class

[@blacklight683]

1:45sniper can do that with no risk of getting killed after it he still can insta kill ful over heal heavy

[@kodak1587]

ok

[@joshuam1917]

The risk is irrelevant, fact is Spy's backstab will always kill unless Ubercharged whereas Sniper's headshot will not always kill depending on the charge-time, if enemy has overheal or bullet resist, etc.

[@chilX3467]

I hate the kunai, it’s one of the most unfun weapons in the game to fight against. It’s an instant 210 health giving weapon just for playing the class that has the second fastest running speed in the game that gets damage resistance when he decides to cloak. Pair that with a player who’s good at juking, getting away, or surfing damage and it’s practically a get out jail free card much like the old dead ringer. It makes me more upset when I’m gunning down an overhealed kunai spy that’s getting away and he gets another backstab off as he escapes, at that point I just give up and let him get away because my progress in taking the spy down just got completely undone. The red tape recorder really is mediocre, but one use it has that wasn’t mentioned is that it’s pretty good against large clusters of buildings or just buildings that’s being protected by a dedicated pybro. In other words, it’s good for when you have zero chance in successfully sapping an engie nest on your own. Playing against level 2 or level 1 equipment is the next best thing if you can’t outright destroy it, plus the enemy engie is going to be spending time and metal upgrading his buildings again which is a good opportunity for your team to attack his buildings.

[@ivantan2841]

I mean you gotta give it to the spy whos good at juking, its a high skill high reward weapon that really shows his dedication to the class, and his 5000 hrs into that class

[@danielsurvivor1372]

@@ivantan2841 Also the fact Spy insta dies after a pick is exactly the reason he's a shit ass class. The fact Spy has kunai should be the NORM, and not be considered OP. Literally every time Spy gets an unlock that makes him semi comp viable, Casual players moan about it being "op" and Valve nerfs it. It's hilarious how Zesty thinks comp players kill more weapons then casuals do, when weapon get reworked due to comp players complains, it's still viable(GRU) or workable (Base jumper) or still meta(Fists of steel) But when Casual players complains, the weapon turns to shit, like Ambassador or dead ringer.

[@DrMonty-ng5fo]

The enforcer should be a backwards Letrange! Keep the Resistence piercing +20% damage -30% clock duraiton

[@PRO100SashaX]

Enforcer USED TO have universal damage bonus, and it was broken dumb shit because at point-blank or around that it two-shoted 125 hp classes. If it doesn't then there is not much point of that (small) damage bonus because stock revlover does the same.

[@SHOKK_]

Not good. Due to the Enforcer's base iteration being the "unga bunga I shoot and not sneak". This brings that back.

[@kennysalty6019]

Red tape recorder has one thing. Mini Sentries. Most gunslinger engineers don't remove sappers. They just let it take the building and slap down another. Red Tape Recorder I think doubles the time spent sapping the sentry.

[@hydrasent563]

27:26 The hitbox is a full 180 degrees, so basically the entire back half of any player, thats why you're able to stab from the side sometimes

[@Angel-Starbreeze]

My balance of spy weapons Diamondback: Hold only 3 crits Add damage falloff Only get crits from backstabs Kunai: Overheal drain increased Slower swing speed Buffed Red Tape Recorder Removes ammo from dispenser It slows teleporter speed Decrease the sentry firing speed When sentry gets leveled down disable any wrangler sheild

[@dictatornoodle1260]

A rework I’d really enjoy for the diamondback is turning it into a spy version of the backscatter so if an enemy is just out of your range you can still attempt to kill them with mini crits

[@punished_chris]

so make it go from op to garbage

[@NFGUN1T]

As a Veteran from the 2007 era, here my 2 cents: (long post) Spy-Cicle: -You forgot to say backstabbing people with it leaves ice statues everywhere, so it can inform the enemy team of your presence, which isn't very good for you. Also you can replenish your knife pretty quickly with ammo packs which negates the downside a bit when you lose it. Your Eternal Reward: -You forgot to say this knife also have "silent kills" for the killfeed, which is pretty good if you want to be extremely sneaky. You can do really well under some situations/areas/maps (but it requires a lot of practice). It's also possible to backstab someone in front of a sentry gun and still being undetected which is also very powerful. It deserves a better ranking imo. Ambassador/Diamondback: -The old version of the Ambassador, as you said was OP. Agree with you on that one and totally deserves a nerf. But probably not how they did it. Actually this weapon is useless for most people and it's only effective if you've a very good aim to make it worth it (Diamonback doesn't requires that). Personally I don't like the headshot mechanic on Spy, it should remains a Sniper thing exclusively. And that's why you can't headshot people with the Crusader's Crossbow (remember when this weapon used an Hunstman arrow projectile instead of a large syringe ?). Why a Hunstman arrow can headshot when the Crusader's Crossbow can't while using the same projectile ? It was confusing somehow so they updated the projectile model for that medic's weapon. For the Ambassador, it doesn't really make sense to stop the headshot mechanic after a certain range it makes it unreliable at mid range. They should completely remove that headshot mechanic and rework it from scratch. Diamonback shares the ability of the old Ambassador (dealing -102hp at long distance), but at least it requires you to do things before you earn these crits when an Ambassador can deal -102hp at any moment but not at long range anymore (and yeah it requires a very good aim), still being able to deal -102 damage in a single shot is such a powerful power for both guns. If you're a low hp class, taking -102 damage make you reconsider your next move pretty quickly, but usually you've a very high chance to die from the next bullet or anything else. Also with the Diamondback, you still need to time your shots, because the "bullet spread" will probably fuck your plan (remember only the first shot is 100% accurate). Trust me, if you unload your gun really quick you're going to waste most of your crits, especially if you're under pressure. But I'm agree it's kinda OP/broken under some situations. At least, we can say it's annoying to get killed by the Diamonback because someone farmed some buildings/newbies and then come at you with a lot of crits bullets. So yeah actually the Ambassador is harder to use and that's why people tend to use the Diamondback instead. You can't blame them, blame Valve instead (if a weapon is more effective overall and easier to use, of course people will play with it, same problem with Scorch Shot basically). I think -102 damage for Ambassador or Diamondback is a bit too much. I would rather want to see ideas like: increased deploys time, increased firing speed, or knockback effect to keep your distance with your target allow you to escape a bad situation. Anyways both weapons need changes, and for sure, it's a tricky subject ! That being said, I'm agree with the rest of the video. Love that serie !

[@whatdoescerealtastelike]

if the diamondback model was on spys hip whenever undisguised, that would be a good balance since youd see it glowing after a backstab before spy pulls it out

[@darthvaderbutwayshittier7054]

The change Spy needs the most is to fix the disguise kit, because half of the time it's bugged to hell and weapons, hats and stuff don't show up.

[@demonizedlife2640]

The Spy-cicle actually supports a Gun Spy playstyle. Instead of using your knife to get the kills, you're supposed to use your gun most of the time (either Stock or Amby) and only pull out your Spy-cicle if you really need to stab someone or if a Pyro catches you.

[@hoonterofhoonters6588]

Have some cold takes from a no-name spy enthusiast. The dead ringer was broken before, and C tier now. It takes too long to recover the cloak after it's lost. You can use it as a big F-U, but it's not a practical option, unless you're a kunai+l'etranger weab spy. Ambassador was bordering on broken, but like the dead ringer, it got hit too hard. It's a question of how much skill should be rewarded. Before it was too much. Now it's not enough. No one likes the new YER. The old version was good in specific situations and for a specific playstyle and should be returned. Spycicle is a counter counter-class weapon, and I hate the fundamental concept of those weapons. I really like the fan-fire, quickdraw idea. It would be a perfect rework for the Enforcer.

[@TheJosiahTurner]

the YER could literally just drop the 33 cloak drain and it would be perfect

[@uberd3323]

See a big problem with the YER, and by extension shortstop, sydney sleeper, black box and degreaser, is that their mechanics only existed to nerf the item-set subclass playstyles. All of them just feel mediocre or janky now that those subclasses are gone and theres no real reason to use them over stock most of the time. What the YER needs is silent decloak, but thats completely broken without requiring the full item set. Im at the point now where I think the full sets were a good idea because they werent that common or impactful to regular matches and every attempt to “fix” weapons from those item sets has been a complete disaster since said sets were removed (barring the battalions backup and Letranger)

[@bkzander1622]

“Memory of an elephant” *forgets that the old diamondback was off saps and not back stabs*

[@MortChrist]

The enforcer resistance piercing stat is very interesting and we frankly need something like it in the game for the sake of counter-play. It's just that this stat needs to be on a class where it makes sense to use, like a scout pistol or something like that.

[@muczkapl]

People REALLY overlook the yers silent kill mechanic. Not even during chainstabs but normal backstabs in the backline of the enemy team, peopls won't hear a loud ass scream that happens during a backstab or a headshot that makes them turn around by instinct and by keeping the disguise of the exact person you just stabbed you aren't spychecked as often cause the person you just killed was right there. I personally don't find a problem with slower movement speed, people rarely expect a soldier or heavy disguise (but that's also because I've only used the baby face blaster on scout for a month) The onlt time you really get fucked over is with silent rooms with no fights happening, even though there is no scream you can still hear the knife stabbing and they immedietaly turn around

[@shoelace5977]

amassador is to the rest of the revolvers what spy is to the rest of the classes: 1) harder to use effectivley 2) much weaker against enemies who are aware of you compared to other revolvers 3) less viable than other options 4) sickest revolver in the game

[@hydrasent563]

4:39 Well the bomb would explode on impact, whereas it would just go through a normal teammate, so people would probably know its a spy

[@Mitioritos]

What if the YER gave a small buff depending on the class you are desguised as? Like Scout - Faster speed Soldier/demo -explosive resistance Pyro- no afterburn Heavy - big of a Health bônus Sniper -milk /pee/gas resistance Medic- regen Spy- idk And then obviously remove the desgise on demand again

[@HiFugly]

39:34 made my laughter hurt me more than you would hurt a Diamondback user in public with the way you described doing so.

[@Massie_]

Spycicle is a Gun-Spy's respite because you can quickly gun down a w+m1 pyro with your revolver in 4 shots, and if you get hit by a single flame particle, you can negate the otherwise crippling afterburn damage to stay in the fight. Also the Enforcer is a big middlefinger to "Ambassador God" spies that pull out their deadringer after getting hit once by anything, because you just fuck them through the damage resistance, and the damage buff while disguised shafts any 5k hour sniper who has spotify cranked to full volume and relies on the razorback, because 2 shots are less reactable than 3. Of course you can also play the Enforcer with a "bind mouse1 '+attack; lastdisguise' " bind and combine the full accuracy reset of the ambassador, with the Enforcers innate damage buff. Bonus points if you snipe targets with minicrits, like a running Escape Plan soldier for 65 damage across the map with a simple bodyshot.

[@yesteryears]

love this weekly series :D

[@supremecalamitas342]

New enforcer stats: +stay disguised after firing ++25% damage resistance while disguised --after shooting redisguise particles form around user --10% movement speed penalty --35% cloak drain rate --35% damage vulnerability while cloaked

[@vyor8837]

Broken.

[@supremecalamitas342]

@@vyor8837 yeah kinda

[@TheJosiahTurner]

i have an idea for the enforcer, make it do consecutively more damage on every successful shot. remove the firing speed penalty and give it an initial 10% damage penalty, as well as a 20% firing speed penalty upon missing. it will deal 20% more damage on every shot, not in an exponential way but it would be like, 40, 48, 56, 64 base damage per shot. he loses his bonus upon missing once, cloaking, or switching off for more than 2 seconds. it would keep the resistance piercing. it would reward accuracy with high amounts of raw damage put punish inaccuracy. so like the dragon's fury for the spy

[@thatguybrody4819]

i love how the diamondback is the most powerful revolver for spy but you only see someone using it once in a blue moon and even then they miss the 2 crits they had stored then die. and the enforcer is really only good for bypassing wrangler shield. man that thing's stats got so broken. red tape fucks minis.

[@littlebadassgaming]

Actually. Red tape doesn't because you can just destroy the mini with the pda then build another.

[@thatguybrody4819]

@@littlebadassgaming not really no.

[@alexw8617]

@@littlebadassgaming you actually can't, it doesn't let you if it's getting sapped which is awesome

[@ItsMe-uq6el]

I like how at the very start everyone in chat hope for ANYTHING but spy. AND GUESS WHAT?!

[@ComicaPaloozaStudios]

Something I heard on the Red Tape Recorder, that I'm sure a couple others are going to mention/have already mentioned is that it does have a very minor niche in screwing over Gunslinger Engies. Since the RTR takes longer to "sap" the building, and Gunslinger Engies already consider Mini-Sentries expendable, then it takes a lot longer for them to be able to re-apply a RTR-sapped Mini due to the delayed destruction of it. Otherwise, and likewise, it may be useful for taking care of Teleporters, though that's more situational than Minis, but de-levelling a Teleporter can mean longer travel time for the enemy team (as well as having the teleporter be out of commission longer before setting down a new one). This is mostly effective, though, if the Engie is not managing his teleporter well - Engies more dedicated to their non-Sentry buildings than not means you really want to use the Sapper anyways.

[@Kc40k]

Man a good Eternal Reward spy is a refreshing threat. And some of them really can melt through teams.

[@theolympiyn8670]

If they know how to act then you can do it well. People definitely talk about it in a vacuum. Like sure this sniper is obviously a spy, but when I’m getting dived by a soldier I’m not exactly thinking about that

[@richardomilos8686]

What i have found out about cloak and dagger is the enemy always expects you to fuck off to the other side of the map as fast as possible after a kill so going to the next room and waiting it out works more often than you would think.

[@yorboinick8398]

7:40 magnificent it drains faster when your cloaked or have the Dr out so you can tank a bit long when your in the open

[@bluesnail5042]

One thing i've not seen said for in defence of the red-tape recorder, is that I think it is objectively more useful than stock sapper if the enemy engineer is using mini-sentries. The sapper prevents the engineer from being able to destruct his sentry or build a new one until the sapper has destroyed or is removed from the sentry. Since the mini-sentry is so disposable and quick to rebuild, having it in a state of being sapped for like double the time it usually would gives a spy a larger window to chainstab a team or go against an engie down to his personal weapons.

[@sheehan3204]

18:35 the dude in chat said that the mini sentry *MEME* is crap and wishes that uncle dane didn't popularize it...the guy who said that is an actual dolt lmao

[@Hanakooh]

For Red-tape recorder: An instant de-level is nice, but I also suggest that the sapper inflict a special debuff on the building (it can be like that the Red-Tape recorder corrupted the building's systems) Debuff can be any one of the following: - 25%-50% higher cost to upgrade the building to the next level (250/300 metal instead of 200 metal) - A status effect that stops the building from even upgrading, and can be removed by the engineer hitting the building a few times (and expending some metal maybe) in order for them to upgrade the building again - A temporary shutdown (about 3-5 seconds) before the building works again. During this time, the engineer may repair and upgrade the building, but the building's upgrade cannot take place until the shutdown timer passes. Consecutive saps from the RTR prolongs the shutdown time up to a max of 10 seconds.

[@Intrafacial86]

I wish Spy had some items that could give him a more supportive role. Some ideas I had: 1. A primary slot dart gun that tags enemies for team-wide tracking. The effect lasts 20s, is limited to a single shot on a 30s cooldown, is nullified while the enemy is cloaked, and also works on enemy buildings. I’m keenly aware that you’re not a fan of wallhack mechanics, but 🤷🏻‍♂️ 2. A sapper that trades your ability to sap buildings for the ability to prevent your team’s buildings from being sapped. They would work by exploding and setting the enemy spy on fire upon any attempt made to sap. However, once triggered, they’d have to be replaced. 3. A sapper that enables you to take limited control of enemy buildings. It would deal no damage to the building initially, but, after an amount of time passes that’s equal to the same amount of time it would take to stock sap the building from full health, the building would swap ownership over to the spy who sapped it. At this point, it can no longer be unsapped, but the given building’s functions are reduced by 50% (fire rate, healing rate, ammo rate, metal rate, cloak rate, cooldown rate) and the sapper starts dealing damage to the building at 50% the stock rate, guaranteeing it will still be destroyed after a period of time. Also, only one of these sappers could be placed at any given time, and allied engies would be unable to repair, reload, or upgrade captured buildings. Captured teleporters would swap their entry and exit.

[@misscookiesncrime]

Couple things in defense of the diamondback. The diamondback was buffed a single time *8 years ago*. It has been the same gun for nearly a decade. Not a soul complained about it till the amby got nerfed, and as a matter of fact if you look back at old videos before the nerf, people were praising it as a slept on weapon, or saying the gun was useless since the Amby did the same thing but for free with a headshot. But a few groups of people yelling about it seems to have stoked a never ending witch hunt over it. The Frontier Justice is the same if not worse for it’s rewarding of crits, as it rewards the engineer 2 crits per kill/1 crit per assist with an aimbot gun. Sure it has a 3 shot clip penalty but it hardly matters because they could use stock, swap to FJ, blow up their sentry and go on a rampage with 180 damage shots, and yet it goes unmentioned. I believe that all this hate over the DB is just mob mentality of a bunch of people following others. It’s a gun who’s role is damage, every class has at least one weapon that focuses on increasing the class’s output. The db isn’t just going on a complete rampage 24/7, it’s for a potentially risky hybrid knife and gun spy playstyle. On that note, it’s very obvious that this tier list wasn’t made by someone with a ton of time into the class so I can’t judge the overall list too harshly if the placings were a bit predictable. That all being said I’d like to say that this was in no way meant to attack you personally, especially due to these being your opinions mostly, and I love your content.

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Wow, a second comment calling out DB hate. That's an improvement. Tho if I could add anything, it is somewhat OP in Highlander (it's banned there) and because only due to it's format. HL forces both teams to have Engineer, aka Soy always have cheap teleporter crit farm. It got banned because Soy could farm crits to delete combos, he could just sap tely, run away, and do this untill you hve enough crits against entire team. Just removing crits on buildings (or atleast teleporters) wouldn't make it too weak in Casual but it would nerf it in HL

[@thatwolfdude018]

Easy fix for the Red Tape Recorder Blue Text: Delevels a building (13 seconds for sentries/ 12 seconds for dispensers/11 seconds for teleports) Deleveling successfully deals 100 damage per level (drains sentry ammo per level) Takes 3 swings from a wrench, homewrecker & neon annihilator to destroy (4 for the Jag) Red Text: Can’t sap anymore than 2 buildings at once 20% slower deploy time

[@AAAJOEY]

27:25 Hitboxes in TF2 and old source are boxes, while CSGO's were updated to be pills in 2018. this fits the models better. if this was changed in tf2 they could tighten the backstab zones and also possibly fix some of the issues the head hitboxes have in tf2.

[@CrabKFP]

For the Diamondback if Valve still wants to keep the crits on it I thought on 2 things: 1) You can't use it while disguise (because unlike the Frontier Justice, Manmelter or the Phlog you don't see the accumulated crits) 2) If you select it while undisguised you are locked to it until you use every single crit shot and you can't disguise. You HAVE to commit to use every single shot

[@bruschetta7711]

just give it half the clip just like the frontier justice, it would make the gun incredibly terrible without the crit, and forces you to hit you crit and follow up shots to get a kill before reloading

[@CrabKFP]

@@bruschetta7711 that also works too, but again, if you can use this thing while disguised it is really unfair to use, so having that AND the fact that you can't use it undisguised will make it "balanced" because just like any other "crit boosted because of stacks" weapons, you see the crits by a mile away, except the Diamondback

[@helton1812]

imagine if you could get negative crits with the diamondback, like if you use it before you have any crits you get -1 crits and need 2 stabs/saps for 1 crit, it would be a high risk high reward idea

[@villagerminecraft464]

Hmmm

[@danielsurvivor1372]

0-o Omfg the hate boner for DB is strong with this one. Also yet another 92749264917 DB nerf thst wouldn't affect DB in Highlander and it will still be banned in HL but now it would just be sh*ttier in Casual.

[@whatastandupguy3050]

@@danielsurvivor1372 Good, that’s the point. The majority of players play casual, it’s annoying in casual, keep it banned in HL, that’s what you do anyways. The game isn’t balanced around comp, it never has been and shouldn’t be because most people don’t play comp.

[@SimplyKevin]

The red tape recorder is a great way to punish and bully gunslinger engies because when you sap the mini-sentry, they can’t destroy it and have to wait the 10.5 seconds before placing another one down. You can switch to your primary to take out the engie with half-decent aim or just use the red tape to continuously troll until he switches class.

[@theeagleunion2949]

One idea I have for the red tap recorder is make it highlight sapped buildings to your entire team

[@harriesdif]

Thanks you for a video, Zesty!

[@red-joker1307]

Man, these tier lists have been great. Have you considered putting all of the edited VODs together in one video once you’re done?

[@goroakechi6126]

Finding this video a day after I played the best Spy in my life yesterday is wonderful.

[@OlaftheGreat]

As someone who plays Engineer frequently I DREAD the Red-Tape Recorder. In little more than 3 seconds time, your buildings are reverted to level 1, and all the metal that went into leveling them up and your dispenser's metal reserves is just gone. While the stock sapper can clearly kill faster, an engineer can usually knock it off in 2 swings, and the damage is completely repaired in just a few more swings. But if you get RTR'd, you're back to square one and incredibly vulnerable until you get your buildings releveled. I'm not saying it's the best choice for most situations, but the RTR is definitely not as bad as people say.

[@farronblaze2952]

I think a good way to buff the Spycicle is to make it so right clicking with it when you're on fire extinguishes you instead of when its out. So you can control when you lose it. It keeps its upsides, and its downsides, but gives the spy more control

[@CuteBridge]

the spycicle is really good when youre getting chased by a pyro and have already been burned. you can swap from your pistol to the spycicle, lose it and gain afterburn, then finish gunning down the monster. it has saved me more than i wouod like to admit, and while it HURTS to lose a stab because a pyro was doing their job, i feel like it helps me clear the server of pyros before i get to back work. the amount of survivability you gain more than makes up for losing the knife. my main complaint is that losing it automatically switches you to a sapper, which will get you killed in some scenarios

[@ItzInk]

The Diamondback only got crits from sapped buildings earlier, it was the backstab source that made it broken.

[@therubbermeep7456]

Hear me out here red tape recorder isn’t made to just hurt the engies buildings its also used to hurt his metal supply (and to make him rage) red tape and cloak and dagger force engie to guard his buildings ( which he cant guard all) leaving him weak to a push while hes low on metal. Pybro or milti engies are the only easy counter to it.

[@crabbycat302]

fun fact the big earner has had only one change to its stats being the addition of the 3 second speed boost on kill

[@animatedprotootype3450]

This was quicker than usual holy shit it's only been 2 days

[@menacing_name]

A rework for the Enforcer I thought of is the following: +Enemy players and buildings shot by this revolver get the "Shattered" debuff for 1 second, causing all damage resistances (except stock Uber) to be ignored by all damage sources for the duration (this would be displayed by a shattered shield icon above the affected player and to the right of the affected player's health in their UI) +The duration of this effect is doubled when shooting from out of a disguise +20% damage bonus against shattered players and buildings (regardless of whether they actually had any resistances or not) -40% slower firing speed (a shot every 0.8333 seconds as opposed to 0.5 seconds if I've done the math right and the Wiki is correct) -33% slower disguise speed (from 2 to 3 seconds undisguised and 0.5 to 0.75 seconds disguised) -Critical hits from this revolver are converted to mini-crits (not incredibly sure if this one is neccesary) -No random critical hits Note that the revolver's 1.25 second delay you must wait through to reset random spread would still apply here, so to get 100% uptime on the shattered debuff (and take advantage of the 20% extra damage), the spy would have to either get pretty lucky on the bullet spread or be close enough to his target where bullet spread would be inconsequental.

[@OMalleyTheMaggot]

ALSO people always forget about the Red Tape's secret upside. Sapping a mini-sentry and NOT destroying it prevents the enemy engineer from building another sentry for much longer.

[@vyor8837]

Useless

[@glad16252]

I think Spy could do with a backstab rework. Make the radius smaller from the 180 it is now to 150. It's large enough to where you can realistically backstab people consistently, but the blatant abuse of being in that perfect spot of "They are looking at me but I'm slightly to the left so I win" just doesn't happen. Getting backstabbed by a good spy shouldn't feel bullshit, the same way a headshot shouldn't feel bullshit. Especially if it's an insta kill. That's how I feel, it's probably a bad balance idea and makes Spy horrifically underpowered, but that's what I would do. Let me know if you have any other ideas or if you think I'm wrong then please explain why

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

then they have to fix the knife raise viewmodel animation so that you can see the REAL backstab range. its really unintuitive how the backstab range is longer than it seems but you have to guess it until youre close enough for the knife raise animation to play.

[@n0v3mb3r7]

honestly if this change was implemented spy would be so ruined he wouldn't be playable. if you play enough spy you'll notice that you miss more backstabs than you hit bullshit ones. it would be best if they fixed the netcode and hitreg before nudering the backstab range.

[@_________3235]

Your videos are very nice I like to listen to them when I doing stuff like chores or runing

[@swagathan5]

Thank you, sir, for these tier lists. They are much appreciated by more novice players such as myself! Also, that Bionicle collection is very cool. I wish I had all of the Piraka...

[@DynaDere]

Yo thanks for giving the sauce on your very cultured drawings of your muscle girl OC, I'm checking those artists out for sure!

[@nataakdoryan]

Proposition for the diamondback : increase the damage debuff from 15% all the way to like 35-50%. That way, you sacrifice consistent damage for higher damage when you do have crits. With a 50% damage penalty, it means that crits deal 50% more damage than stock, at any range. With 35% damage penalty, the crit damage goes to around a 90% damage increase compared to stock. You still have a better weapon when you do your job well, but if you don't, or if you miss your shots, you have a way worse revolver. Maybe to double down on that, you could decrease the switch out speed by 30-50% so that if you miss your crits, you can't just switch to your knife quickly or whatever, making the weapons riskier, or similarly increase the cloak time.

[@DinnerForkTongue]

One thing I noticed about Zesty: dude _loves_ his tank tops. Never seen him wear a shirt with sleeves outside of his geophysicist fieldwork photos.

[@lucrayzor9657]

Take a shot every time he says "hideously" or "objectively" lol

[@Bun_McByuun]

How to change the Diamondback: 1. Crits do not activate when breaking a disguise, nor are they used up, also include a timer after breaking a disguise before the crit can activate 2. Cloaking/decloaking is longer while the weapon is active 3. Add a delay before a second crit can be fired, 1 between crit shots, meaning that firing a crit shot, then shooting again would be a normal shot without using a crit. 4. 3 Crit limit I haven't played TF2 in a while- even then, i was more a fan of the L'tranger and Stock, but the DB always bothered me. At least with the Amby, they either fired at the perfect time or were actually skilled enough to land a headshot.

[@Jacob-se1hu]

The Enforcer is great for last pushes on Payload where wrangler engineers are hard to get to, but since buildings have no fall off and wrangler shields are penetrated, you can just plink away at it from a distance and tear it apart. That's the only good use case I've found, but it's a really damn good use.

[@genericsuit]

I was thinking upon right click, the spycicle can be used as a fire get out of jail free card so it negates the pyro's flame particles from instantly burning ur knife away and gives you a more planned use of spycicle.

[@KiuhKobold]

Not only do I get the TF2 entertainment I crave for in a daily basis like a drug addict, I also get to know the great minds and souls behind some of this channel's most endearing and well done art works. Thanks Zesty!

[@ratsmacker676]

This time I was in the stream for this. Nice

[@grimdog7651]

YER is really good on maps like dustbowl where teams and engies huddle together way more than other maps. It allows you to get massive chain stabs that other knives don't.

[@Just__Garbage]

I like that fan hammer thing idea for Engineer, maybe have it be like a pistol or maybe even a primary, I see it working kind of like the old Panic Attack.

[@knines6279]

I would really love a sapper that switches team affiliation. It would only work on enemy sentries and dispensers, and it wouldn’t do damage. When a certain amount of time passes, the building will turn into your team’s building. The sapper would also work faster depending on the building’s health, so if you shoot the building it would turn to your side faster

[@NightinGery]

Thanks for the shoutout!

[@redkniferk9526]

I love listening to Zesty's explanations.

[@mastergame1311]

Red Tape Recorder has one feature people tend to not know about - it empties metal storage from the sapped dispenser instantly. It doesn't make the weapon good or anything, but it's something.

[@aganaom1712]

i like the concept behind the diamondback. i don't know if increasing the damage penalty on it is the way to go though. i was thinking maybe a shorter cloak duration like the YER to force the spy to use it more often so he can't bank crits as easily. incentivize a kind of gameplay loop that i think it already tries to but force it a bit harder where the spy backstabs an enemy and then immediately whips around to put down another enemy nearby by before dipping out. alternatively you could make the crits mini crits instead maybe. a quickdraw revolver would also be a cool idea but i think i would prefer that on a new weapon if possible as opposed to a rework of an already existing item. i think changing the spycicle's melting mechanic to something you can choose to do on demand would just make it more consistent which i think is all it needs

[@UncleLayne]

Watching these always makes me want to play more TF2

[@TheCiastek63]

I don't know why people underrate the spycicle so much if you get set on fire right before a backstab then you're dead anyway (unless maybe if you're using the kunai lol) - surely it's better to have a chance to escape to an ammo pack and get back to the action, in a casual setting at least? and more often than not, you get set on fire AFTER a backstab, in which case the spycicle will save your life and you can still use your revolver. combining the spicycle with the diamondback and two-shotting the class that's supposed to counter you feels both really funny and a little dirty and if you have your revolver out when moving around you can control whether you want to use the spicycle to extinguish yourself or not