Chocolate expert: How to identify good and bad chocolate | Spencer Hyman & Prof. Sarah Berry

[@markhepner]

One thing that puts me off eating a lot of dark chocolate is the level of heavy metals, in particular cadmium and lead, that have been found in various brands, including organic brands, by Consumer Reports in the USA. I'd be interested to hear Spencer's view on this

[@Mmjk_12]

Ritter Sport has very low levels of heavy metals + its semi cheap, sustainable, family run and has only basic ingredients, not sure how available it is in the US though

[@dickschwanzstein1789]

@@Mmjk_12Yeah, they came out in second place in Bryan Johnson’s test. His test featured some American and some European brands.

[@Mmjk_12]

@@dickschwanzstein1789 literally just finished eating one about 30 seconds ago 😂

[@ilylavender8014]

@@dickschwanzstein1789where do i find this test?

[@littlechestnutorchard]

I love good quality dark chocolate but more than that I love prof. Sarah Berry, she is my all time favourite scientist. Her down to earth, humble approach to explain complex scientific data to Jo public is commendable.

[@2twentysix]

My taste buds converted to dark chocolate when I experimented with a low-carb diet for a while because I could not tolerate sugar, and grew to love it! Once I experienced the richness of flavour I could not tolerate milk chocolate anymore. Visited the Lindt (Schokoladen) Museum in Cologne Germany in July this year and learning how their chocolate is sourced, seeing how it’s made (and trying their hot chocolate in the Lindt Cafe) was one of my favourite food experiences ever 🍫 ❤ 😋 Such an informative segment - thank you 🙏

[@2twentysix]

@@jschreiber6461I was so mesmerised by the chocolate stores in Brussels that I forgot all about the Chocolate Museum! 😂…thanks for the dark chocolate, Paris and London tips 🙏 Am in Australia so not sure I can buy the Montezuma chocolate 🍫

[@abdulnaas]

I am a physician and worked in diabetes for good years and changed my lifestyle and eating habits for now about 8-10 years.. I have been recently confused by the problems associated with metals especially Lead and Cadmium in many types of dark chocolate .. Consumer Reports have done a lot in this field but the literature is very confusing and complex . I am very surprised why this topic was not discussed in the episode ( I doubt if it has been covered in other podcasts) .. I am very fascinated with discussions in the episode but I hope my note will be looked at and future discussions will happen soon!

[@Evelyn-h5q]

Was going to bring up the same concern. I can't find the source at the moment, but Peru is not apparently a good source because of high levels of cadmium; I would also like to know more about how both these heavy metals increase during the process of making chocolate and why testing is not done regularly. It's sad because the polyphenols in cacao have also been shown to positively affect mitochondria as well. It was however a very interesting discussion as you say.

[@AbsenceLacksNothing]

I subscribed to Cocoa Runners monthly dark chocolate selection for a year but got tired of being sent overly sweet bars and bars right on the verge of their best before date. It’s much cheaper and more enjoyable to choose what I actually want rather than rely on what they need to offload.

[@PibrochPonder]

100% agree. All this subscription stuff is just nonsense designed to get you to consume more.

[@markrichter2053]

My favourite way of enjoying chocolate is to drink it as hot chocolate. Make a paste with a large teaspoon of cocoa powder and splash of cold oat milk with a moderate amount (1 tsp) of soft brown sugar. Mix into a paste. Then stir in a mugful of oat milk and microwave till hot.

[@jon33040]

Sorry but the more I think about this video, the more disappointing it is. The title is "how to identify good and bad chocolate" but that's one thing it doesn't cover! It mentions US brands but nothing you can get in the UK or mainland Europe. It doesn't tell you what to look for in the ingredients list or nutritional information. My local organic food shop has two brands of organic chocolate (Bonneterre, Vivani) but how can I tell if either or both (or neither) of these is "good" bu this definition? I wasn't aware of the concerns about heavy metals, not mentioning them at all seems short-sighted, even if to say that you haven't reviewed the evidence.

[@r_ds8057]

I feel the same way. An hour wasted and I don't know more than I knew (avoid sugar and ultra processed) Did they mention good brands to get?

[@da480]

My sentiments exactly…. Posted also in a message

[@mikkikas6821]

​@@r_ds8057NO! AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS WAITING FOR!!😡

[@luchobianchi3685]

Go and look for craft chocolate. Enjoy

[@johnhall8455]

Simple…just buy 100% chocolate…

[@sossepanter]

I eat only 85% or 90%. I am just worried about the rumors about the risk of heavy metals in them.

[@pauladdae3130]

Some brands have lower amounts of lead and cadmium and hence are better choices. Such as some dark chocolate products from: Ghirardelli, Mast, Taza and Valrhona (Abinao 85%). These are not easy to get in the UK though, apart from the latter. Not sure about Hu or Montezuma. But the bog standard dark chocolates in the large supermarket chains may have larger amounts.

[@OzKidzFun]

@@pauladdae3130 Those chocolate bars very good, but cost at least around $10!

[@aprilblossoms4]

Check out Bryan Johnson’s videos about chocolate and which one was good/better

[@MrBijboc]

maybe that's where all the benefits for your blood vessels come from :)

[@Randolph1233]

Natural flavouring is not natural . It is bad. Good chocolate has no flavouring. Some flavouring is made from aborted baby material.

[@grahamknights7356]

The Zoe podcasts are so very informative and a great listen. Jonathan is so good at listening and pulling up the experts when they start talking 'technical' that will be above most people's heads. This was a superb session on chocolate, thank you.

[@italianlifestyle7911]

The most useful content of the week considering I'm a huge chocolate fan😋

[@zivzulander]

If your username is accurate, I love Amedei chocolate (Italian brand) 🤤

[@italianlifestyle7911]

@@zivzulander Refined expensive taste mate.. prendimé fondente con mandorla is exquisit🤎

[@r_ds8057]

Maybe do a quick synopsis. Best way to remember:-)

[@davidchilds9590]

This very week, I am attempting to make chocolate from first principles for the first time, so this discussion has been really helpful to me!

[@JohnnyArtPavlou]

From beans?

[@davidchilds9590]

@@JohnnyArtPavlou Cocoa nibs from fairly traded beans. It's magic the way the nibs turn into chocolate!

[@loveatree1]

Such an all inclusive discussion about chocolate leaves out the glaring information about heavy metals, leaving me to think that the omission was intentional , perhaps because none of us would continue to eat it if we knew.

[@ruthmack470]

Love the show! I really wish you’d gotten into the issue of metals with this topic. It’s something I’ve been quite curious about and would love to hear the science on that.

[@nathaliapadilla3739]

Wow. What a wonderful episode. Love it. We are honored to be part of Spencer curated assortment within Cocoa Runners

[@drunkaviator81]

Chocolate and Love is a fantastic UK brand, although manufactured in Switzerland: plant-based packaging, simple ingredients (no emulsifiers), organic...they do an 80% Panama Bar, which is fantastic. Also very affordable to buy the Sainsbury's taste the difference 90% Ugandan Chocolate - I think it's about £2.75. Three ingredients, and very low in sugar.

[@williamkz]

Yes, I love the Sainsbury's 90% Ugandan Chocolate! Probably one of the mos nutritious chocolate bars around. (Last year it was only £1.60...)

[@jeannamcgregor9967]

This is brilliant! I recently experienced this when I ran out of my "savoring" chocolate and bought a different bar that cost twice as much but had very little chocolate flavor. Now I know more about what I was experiencing.

[@hazeldellis]

Just like the chocolate in sicily (made in the town of Modica) , you must allow it to melt in your mouth and in fact if you chew it it tastes horrible, but let it melt and it's heaven

[@zivzulander]

Very excited for this one, as a savorer and lover of craft, single origin chocolate 😋🍫 Eating smaller quantities (that you really appreciate the complexity of) helps to offset the cost vs mass produced, lower tier chocolates that have too much sugar and fillers. It's an affordable luxury. There's huge overlap with the tasting notes of coffees (I also love coffee). Dark chocolate is a also a great source of minerals like magnesium and trace minerals. 70% cacao is the sweet spot for me, though some people enjoy the higher percentages more (I do only on occasion).

[@mangiari]

Please forward this to Sarah: If you don't like bitter choc, don't eat it. There are so much other ways to enjoy sweet and healthy. For my kids I lightly roast almonds and hazelnut put it in the blender with the same amount of dried dates (just a short crushing, not too fine) then I melt a bit of cocoa butter mixed with as much organic fair trade cocoa powder as I want and I smear that paste in a silicon form. It's nothing like craft choc, but it is all natural and very healthy and I eat as much as I want, just as my kids do 😂

[@gracecotton9819]

Sounds good, but be aware that almonds are high in oxalates, which can build up in our bodies over the years.

[@mangiari]

@@gracecotton9819 I don't believe in single chemical effects. You find an unhealthy chemical in everything. Relevant is the whole food item and how our body reacts to them. Short and long term. And the studies show that regular nut (and almonds) are healthier. Epidemiological as well as interventional. If you are concerned with stuff accumulating in our bodies, a good bet is to reduce the overall intake to the minimum possible. Less in, less accumulation. Our bodies can go with quite few calories, if it must. But I prefer to focus on the stuff that has trials that proof health benefits and skip the rest. Aside Tim's (from ZOE) book I also recommend William W Li and Will Bulsiewicz. Read (or listen to) those books and you have plenty of food to choose from.

[@zivzulander]

​@@mangiariexcellent comment. A lot of people are getting hyperfocused and frightened off otherwise healthy foods due to influencers and certain diets. Data in context is important. Methodology matters.

[@inksslinks319]

Similar to healthy “Turtles" … pitted medjool date stuffed with either walnut, pecan, brazil nut, then melted chocolate drizzled over the top - or my lazy way would be piece of chocolate stuffed top of nut and then quickly microwaved to melt. That also helps soften the date a bit.

[@cinuk]

My favourite dessert is melted 100% dark chocolate (I buy organic Montezuma 100% dark) over berries and then a bit of almond butter on top

[@JojoJacquesTarot]

Omg me too!!! ❤

[@gilldickinson5303]

Wow! ❤

[@deborahhoward8043]

I chop the same brand and add to Greek yogurt with berries and a sprinkle of chopped nuts. A daily staple desert.

[@keithpp1]

Montezuma Big Chocolate, bought out by Vulture Capitalists.

[@lynlawley8903]

​@deborahhowyard8043 yum

[@christophermorris-n1q]

Missed any reference to heavy metals content!

[@rodpettet2819]

I've never even as a kid been too fond of milk chocolate. I hate the oversweet (to me) white chocolate, but can't resist a good dark chocolate! In moderation of course.

[@Annique]

Chocolatemakers, Chocolate Tree, Heinde & Verre, Roszavolgyi and Feitoria do Cacao are all fantastic European craft chocolate makers

[@rosie2155]

Thank you, I was waiting for recommendations.

[@Annique]

@@rosie2155 Oooh, and for some affordable organic faves: Vivani's lineup is generally more processed with some having lecithins and such added, but their collaboration with Demeter produced a good 70% dark milk. And Belvas has a sinful 100% bar with cacao from Piura, still easily one of the best 100%'s I've gotten to taste, both are only 3.50 and 4.10 euro's at my local organic/reform grocery store.

[@davidvalencia8292]

Willie’s is available in the UK , just taken delivery from Amazon of the genuine article.

[@keithpp1]

Hardly a surprise. A British company.

[@bengiles6568]

Is that low in heavy metals? There's a lot of varieties they sell, which did you go for?

[@lynlawley8903]

So Willie's is good from amazon great !

[@lynlawley8903]

Going to try

[@hiddenlawyer]

Finally found Taza in a local grocery store and I can attest to the interesting texture, it is really pleasant! I prefer the 85% over the 70%, the 85% has more of a crunch to it and the less sweetness lends itself better to the flavor of the chocolate. It is hard to describe the texture, it is basically large granuals (relative to what you are used to with regular chocolate) tightly bound together. It can be a bit gritty at first but quickly subsides as it melts.

[@汪勤曜]

It’s crazy no one here is talking about “the hidden herbs” by Anette Ray…

[@janeslater8004]

MLM

[@dickschwanzstein1789]

You’re posting this comment all over the place eh… elsewhere you claimed the book was banned. Trying to sell some books?

[@nanwang2286]

Lots of useful information in this episode as I am a huge dark chocolate fan, but I wish they covered about the lead and cadmium contained in chocolate.

[@chicfifty5067]

Regrettably there is nothing like the pure joy of gobbling a bar Cadbury's Dairy Milk, as an adult, by yourself, when you know you shouldn't, but you do anyway.

[@howardcohen6817]

like smoking cigarettes? But now we know what it is we are actually gobbling down.

[@howardcohen6817]

like smoking cigarettes? But now we know what it is we are actually gobbling down.

[@Alantj22]

Only if you are already hooked on sugar. If you are not, it tastes vile, chocolate flavoured sugar

[@Marlene-Nancy]

What brand!!!

[@elizabethlindsay4983]

@@Marlene-Nancyhe’s being too coy for words! Not impressed .

[@pauladdae3130]

It would have been useful to have discussed, or maybe in future invite someone to discuss in detail, the issues of high levels of lead and cadmium within dark chocolate. Some brands have lower amounts of lead and cadmium and hence are better choices. Such as some dark chocolate products from: Ghirardelli, Mast, Taza and Valrhona (Abinao 85%). These are not easy to get in the UK though, apart from the latter. Not sure about Hu or Montezuma. But the bog standard dark chocolates in the large supermarket chains may have larger amounts.

[@roisinmc7442]

This is really interesting. I eat a lot of 100% chocolate. Mainly montezuma. Occasionally as a treat i have HU.

[@Rmacnation]

I was also hoping to hear about heavy metals in dark chocolate and which brands to purchase in the hopes of avoiding them. Please include in a future episode on dark chocolate. Thanks! Love your podcast.

[@pauladdae3130]

@@roisinmc7442 Both Hu and Montezuma assert that the levels of cadmium and lead are in accordance with EU accepted standards. However, these benchmarks are still very hard. I purchase both brands but after my own research I'll shift to Valrhona (Abinao 85%). Blaxart is potentially another option, but they do not mention the extent of cadmium and lead levels in their dark chocolate.

[@EZLadventurist]

Thanks for a great episode. Would love to see a follow-up discussing organic vs. non-organic chocolate and heavy metal content.

[@jimhignett6993]

As the bean is in a thick husk, like avocados, it is unlikely to have absorbed many pesticides.

[@cathyhall7933]

Great episode! I learned alot about chocolate production and why i should choose a naturally produced craft chocolate. But which ones give me those benefits and where can i buy them?

[@jamesmcdonald3724]

Nice reminder on how to appreciate good chocolate!! The comments were also informative!!

[@hongbeaven4020]

I would love to know more about contamination of lead in chocolate in some countries.

[@corposant]

Considering how this topic of lead found in chocolate has been in the news a lot lately, this seems like a missed opportunity to discuss it. Not all chocolate is created equal for a variety of reasons.

[@OzKidzFun]

Especially the daily recommendation of dark chocolate for kids and pregnant women! I heard that it's actually not recommended to give dark chocolate to kids due to higher levels of lead in them. And not many parents will be buying $10 chocolate for their kids. I think the main consumers of chocolate are kids, so we need to think about them first, as they have no idea what they put in their mouth and we are as parents need to guide them in the right direction…

[@teri2466]

Don't forget cadmium!

[@corposant]

@@teri2466 Yes -- another good point! All the heavy metals.

[@geoffwhite3385]

cadmium seems to be a bigger issue than lead, but yes, I also wish they had discussed this

[@danaandthedogs]

I've had chocolate from all over the world and I totally agree you have to suck on it for a long time and allow it to really melt in your mouth. Enjoy it in your mouth as long as you can before you swallow it. If you just swallow it right away you lose the enjoyment of the flavors.

[@nonobeijing]

I guess going with 100% cocoa powder in various drinks and foods is quite healthy as long as you don't add sugar.

[@lynlawley8903]

Put in chili

[@kristineandreatta4417]

I am blessed to live in Ecuador, I buy 80% dime size chocolates at my local mercado for $6 a half a pound. Ecuador is a chocolate producer and in dyer need of promotion .We have Picari as a name brand but there are so many other small businesses that could benefit from a mention on the world stage.

[@littleboots9800]

What a coincidence! I just put some Ecuadorean dark chocolate on my online grocery shopping order an hour ago. It's Fairtrade too. Arrives in the morning. I hope it's good.

[@kristineandreatta4417]

@@littleboots9800 Thanks mi amigo, every little bit counts.

[@aprilblossoms4]

Wonderful! I hope more of us can get our hands on Ecuadorian chocolate🤞🏽

[@nellsands5679]

Where can your order it?

[@kristineandreatta4417]

@@nellsands5679 I looked on Amazon for Picari chocolate and there is a wide choicel.A lot of it is 100% which is quite bitter so look for 80% or less.

[@keithpp1]

Thank you. An excellent discussion on chocolate.

[@amandagrumbridge5244]

The transcript in the Zoe email is about seed oils not chocolate as it’s supposed to be.

[@macsmiffy2197]

I’ve had another email since the seed oil one and it is about chocolate. Maybe yours hasn’t been delivered yet.

[@amandagrumbridge5244]

The email I referred to is headed How to identify good and bad chocolate.

[@tincanguru]

I live in Brazil. We grow cocoa there but Brazilian chocolate is simply terrible and also very expensive. Craft chocolate is non-existent. I am from the UK and visiting there at present but I have never seen craft chocolate here either. The video was interesting but in terms of applicability it failed. Practical advice please.

[@mark-ish]

Lol, start your own importing company and don't expect someone to do the hard work for you.

[@JazzZee-Love]

I love dark chocolate.. However I recently discovered that, heavy metals, including lead and cadmium is found in many dark chocolate / cacao products. And white chocolate is supposed to be healthier due to the cocoa butter… Obviously the sugar content is still not healthy but there seems to be so much conflicting information out there.

[@diggingshovelle9669]

what about high levels of lead and cadmium?

[@zivzulander]

That's highly variable for the same reasons as spices (natural high variability due to soil and/or manufacturing reasons). You need extensive testing to figure this out, like Consumer Reports did for spices like cinnamon.

[@bobgug8626]

Yes, it's a bit silly to make an hour-long episode on the health aspects of chocolate and not even address the issue of heavy metals.

[@jobl5505]

Yeah, all these good things are easily cancelled out with the lead and cadmium - I am very suspicious as why this is not mentioned. Just google consumer reports - from what they say most all chocolate has dangerous levels of heavy metals. I still eat it but am careful what I buy

[@hamdc4291]

Absolutely. No mention of the levels of heavy metals or the high levels of oxylate in dark chocolate.

[@pauladdae3130]

Some brands have lower amounts of lead and cadmium and hence are better choices. Such as some dark chocolate products from: Ghirardelli, Mast, Taza and Valrhona (Abinao 85%). These are not easy to get in the UK though, apart from the latter. Not sure about Hu or Montezuma. But the bog standard dark chocolates in the large supermarket chains may have larger amounts.

[@amandagrumbridge5244]

Zoe is expensive and beyond most people

[@LinkEX]

how so? they regularly release great informative episodes for free. this one in particular might not be the best example admittedly, as I couldn't take too much away from it. But there's countlesss invaluable episodes with some interesting insights, and the interviews are always entertaining to listen to imho.

[@_Refurbished_]

Only in the KZbin generation could you have a video spanning more than an hour consisting of health information about chocolate.

[@mark-ish]

Yep, it's certainly become common now - ZOE, DOAC etc...

[@harrietgoodacre]

Yea, god forbid we actually learn something properly rather than a 10 second video that has no value whatsoever

[@_Refurbished_]

@@harrietgoodacre It wasn't a criticism.

[@r_ds8057]

Yeah ..but a synopsis would be awesome. Seems like they all wanted their personalities to come through etc etc..which is their right etc But after watching and skipping a bit...I am lost. What are the main points? Which one was good? I understand less sugar is good etc....and ultra processed is bad. (is there anyone that didn't know?)

[@EvaSell-j4g]

A fascinating discussion - I didn't know the benefits of a "good" craft dark chocolate. I enjoy 70% dark chocolate and not a fan of milk chocolate. I was a bit shocked and the same time deflated knowing the UK doesn't sell "craft chocolate" yet the USA does. - I hope it comes onboard sometime in the not too distant future. I will continue to purchase this dark 70% chocolate bar, which I have read has 100% cocoa mass sourced from Ecuadorian cocoa beans - a Fairtrade cocoa. It sadly contains cane sugar but a relief that it doesn't contain palm-oil. I learnt a lot today, thank you!

[@lisab9734]

Sarah surprises me with what she said about her eating cadburys as it ‘gives the hit that dark chocolate doesn’t.’ I used to feel like this but since eating dark chocolate the other chocolates are just so sweet and don’t make me feel good at all. I still believe we can train ourselves to eat and learn how to like getting ‘ a hit’ from something else. Basically what the guy says at 56 mins Also eating quickly is just about thinking we need or like something. With ‘ real’ food and eating slowly we actually discover and over time learn what really foods taste like

[@paulbrightwell3621]

Chocolate makes my clothes shrink

[@mark-ish]

*sugar

[@anneflynn9614]

😂😅

[@g4egk]

I'm a bit surprised Sarah mentioned eating a bar of Hersey's (or Cadbury's). The former always tastes of baby sick to me, the favour is an acid that is put in their chocolate deliberate too, bizarrely

[@iancraig9535]

Unless I missed it, v little information for the consumer on the best healthiest chocolate.

[@marcopaluszny]

I would have liked that you touched upon the content of heavy metals in chocolate, in particular cobalt. This seems to be related to the type of soil.

[@laurelyancey9466]

I wonder about what Bryan Johnson speaks of regarding the heavy metals in most chocolates. And what does your geust think of the chocolate that he has produced and is currently selling?

[@incensejunkie7516]

I have no idea who Bryan Johnson is, but I read about the heavy metal issue from consumer reports over a year ago, they investigated many brands of chocolate. Then it was back in the news recently.

[@ceciliasilver2911]

Green & Black's Organic Chocolate in the UK, is that a healthy option?

[@2coryman]

True is not focused as such best bars but it tells us a lot of what to look for in chocolates, should be no dutched , meaning no alkali processed, and organic certified❤❤

[@gordonbrown5901]

What do we want to see in the ingredients list and what do we not want to see?

[@zivzulander]

What you want to see: Cocoa powder (aka cocoa mass), sugar, cocoa butter. Sometimes vanilla (real vanilla is good, artificial vanilla like vanillanin is not; in white chocolate, in particular, this often is an indicator difference between a cheap bar and a decent one. Real vanilla is wonderful. I do not like artificial vanilla.). You do not want to see sugar listed as the first ingredient, though, because ingredients are typically sorted by mass and high sugar is not a sign of a good-quality or good-for-you chocolate bar. Other ingredients: "inclusions" may be present if it's not pure dark chocolate (milk, almonds, cashews, dried fruit, coffee beans, etc.) but some sort of flavored variety. Obviously, avoid anything clearly artificial or vague ("natural flavors") where possible. Some types of inclusions lend themselves better to certain single-origin or blended bean pairings. Definitely a preference thing, too, but I tend to stick to plain dark, milk, and white chocolates without inclusions most of the time, particularly when trying out a new brand (plain bars are better for figuring out bean quality, roast quality, smoothness/consistency, etc. - inclusions may mask those). Emulsifiers may also be present, e.g. lecithins like soy or sunflower lecithin, or PGPR. Some people will tell you all emulsifiers are the devil, but I personally think they are _okay_ because I don't load up on other foods that have them, and likely am not ruining my gut health solely from small amounts of emulsifiers (people striving for dietary perfection are more than welcome to be purists about this). Emulsifiers are "generally regarded as safe" (by way of US/EU regulations, which isn't a high bar per se) in small quantities, but it's probably wise to avoid things that don't contribute flavor (though they are there mouthfeel) or nutrition, anyway, when possible. That said, higher quality (and higher cacao percentages) will forgo emulsifiers as there is less need for them, and/or they have processes and equipment that ensure quality markers like consistency without them. Other things to consider: "organic" labeling doesn't factor into my own considerations that often, personally, but organically grown cacao may be a consideration, and often "craft" or "bean-to-bar" chocolate will specify organic cacao. Example of very clean nutrition label is from one of the brands mentioned in this video: Taza's "95% Wicked Dark": Organic Cacao Beans, Organic Cane Sugar And that's it. Oh, and it's stone ground chocolate, which is about as unrefined as you can get and still be in a chocolate bar form (cacao nibs are even less refined, but not everyone enjoys them - I do like those on occasion). Stone ground results in a different texture and may not be everyone's cup of tea. Definitely worth trying, though.

[@suzetteccc]

I wish they had spoken about the metals content in dark chocolate They must be aware of it.....We got into dark chocolate 85% with Trader Joe's especially as the price was good, but it has "natural" vanilla flavour in it. I don't think that's a good thing , but it is tasty. We also have 85% Lindt which is easy to get used to especially if you dip it in your coffee. The ingredients are all what you could find in your cupboard. We went on a chocolate tour in a little town in Sicily and had pure chocolate, brought some back and everyone hated it. So you have to find the balance.

[@lomaalexander9072]

Can you talk about lead and cadmium that is in cocoa ? How do you identify this in a chocolate bar, powder etc.

[@sladflob]

Surprised there was no mention of Dutched vs non Dutched chocolate. Or did I miss it?

[@ygibb7012]

It's a process to make cocoa powder and they stuck to the solid chocolate theme.

[@dienar3717]

Its simple, two component chocolate, i.e. processed chocolate beans and sugar. That is what you are looking for, even though there is a lot of sugar, the insulin spike is very limited.

[@frankiez7414]

Did you mention how bad emulsifiers are ? Did you suggest eating chocolate without emulsifiers?

[@stevenrobertson4190]

So which dark chocolate brands can we buy in the UK that are healthy and how much can we eat per day? Thank you.

[@pauladdae3130]

Some brands have lower amounts of lead and cadmium and hence are better choices. Such as some dark chocolate products from: Ghirardelli, Mast, Taza and Valrhona (Abinao 85%). These are not easy to get in the UK though, apart from the latter. Not sure about Hu or Montezuma. But the bog standard dark chocolates in the large supermarket chains may have larger amounts.

[@mark-ish]

The second part of your question is very consumer specific.

[@keithpp1]

- Luisa's - Bullion

[@zivzulander]

Willie's appears to be a decent, available option if you can get it from Waitrose or Amazon

[@ehabitation9213]

Green&black organic is the best dark chocolate in the UK

[@laniecantor4753]

How do we find out where the chocolate is from and how they’re processed?

[@zivzulander]

Smaller producers tend to be happy to tell you on their websites or social media channels and will have blogs, tours, FAQs, videos, etc. that explain the process. "Single origin" and "bean-to-bar" are key terms to look for, along with "fair trade".

[@skincraftorganicsllc8537]

What about the cadmium & lead content. From what I understand, cacao from Central & Southern America contains more of both than cacao from other regions.

[@jamesm6674]

Fascinating. Thanks.

[@AntonHu]

Lindt Sea Salt is only 47% cocoa solids, sugars 48%. Hardly a good example of a good, popular 'dark' chocolate. Hardly a real dark Lindt bar like "85%" with 85% cocoa solids and just 15% sugars.

[@greenknitter]

Exactly. Ridiculous not to mention if the higher cocoa solids Lindt is just as good or not than these "craft" chocolates that are not available in the UK or Ireland.

[@stevenrobertson4190]

@@greenknitter I'd like to know if the 85% and 90% Lindt Dark Chocolates are healthy too and how many grams do you need to eat per day to get all the polyphenol and other nutrient benefits? 20 grams? is 50 grams too much per day every day?

[@elanorjackson1308]

Given it is virtually impossible to get craft chocolate in the UK which we learn here, it's a shame there was no discussion of some of the dark chocolates that are available other than bourneville which is clearly not a dark chocolate i.e. 85% chocolates such as green and blacks organic (85% cocoa mass, 14% sugar) or other fair-trade ones like divine as it feels like we are none the wiser in terms of which chocolate we should be opting for. There was also no mention of organic chocolate and whether the nutritional benefits are different from non-organic - would be interesting to understand this.

[@stephanietaraderby8376]

I felt exactly the same. Some of the supermarket brand dark chocolates are also fair trade and have high cocoa solids but there was no mention of them. Everyone knows Bournville is rubbish. I'm not sure why he brought that out as an examples, as well as rubbishing Lindt for using milk powders when their dark unflavoured chocolates do not contain milk powder. He surely fully well knows that but wants us to think we have to 'only' spend £10 on a non existent craft chocolate bar that some of us can't afford.

[@gardnmama]

I live in Ecuador and adore the Pacari/Paccari chocolate produced here. Organic, Fair Trade, dark craft chocolate with loads of flavor. A couple of squares from a bar is plenty to satisfy my sweet tooth. Highly recommend!

[@keithpp1]

No. Sold out to Vulture Capitalists. Try - Luisa's - Bullion

[@merrill997]

I looked up Standout Chocolate. It does not ship to the United States. I wish I knew of a good and safer dark craft chocolate available in the United States. Thank you for a very interesting podcast.

[@zivzulander]

@@merrill997 there are many other bean-to-bar producers in the U.S., but Amano is one I can recommend that ships from their website. I don't usually buy as many "small batch" chocolates, but Chocosphere is another option, and you can buy a bunch of tasting squares (not as expensive as buying full premium bars) to figure out what you like.

[@treesagreen4191]

What about cacao nibs? Do they have any of these benefits?

[@zivzulander]

Absolutely. Those are as raw cacao as you can get while still benefitting from fermentation aspects.

[@neilmiller4611]

I wish they would have discussed raw cacao vs. roasted. I use organic raw cacao and I'd like to hear the comparison between the two. I hope raw cacao is healthier than roasted.

[@JohnnyArtPavlou]

Interesting. Fermented but not roasted…

[@LynneBeck-v5v]

Consumer labs tested taza dark chocolate wicked dark. The flavanol count was quite low and the cadmium level quite high.

[@bmontford372]

I found this interesting because I’m not a chocolate lover largely because I’ve always found most milk chocolate disgustingly sweet and dark chocolate disgustingly bitter. I’ve obviously not been eating craft chocolate. I’d love to try some but don’t want to waste money on a product which I’ve never liked. I wonder which dark milk would be worth trying ? I would like to try a few to get the health benefits Sarah was talking about.

[@zivzulander]

@@bmontford372 "Michel Cluizel Mangaro Lait 50%" would be a good bar to try, although it may or may not fit the "craft" definition (definitely a premium quality bar, though). If you like that, you can work your way up to higher cacao/cocoa percentages.

[@Chocoladeverkopers]

To give you some starting names, some dark milk chocolates i personally enjoy: Akesson Brazil, Auro Luna, Heinde & Verre, Krak (Colombia), Original Beans Femmes de Virunga, Standout has a nice range of 60% milk bars too which are fun to try together to see the origin difference, Zotter has some high cocoa options (like a 70% (!) cocoa milk chocolate bar, buit also their nicaragua 50/60 while maybe a bit more plain then some options are good allround options, the nicaragua 50% is my mother's all time favorite chocolate) - Anyway, some first suggestions that maybe give a good start. But it's always good to just see what a local (web)shop has and try a couple, it can be also very rewarding to just try something and then be overwhelmed and find your new favorite chocolate that way. Hope this helps :)

[@robbulman9324]

would Spencer recommend 'Montezuma' chocolate brand? It looks like it doesn't use much added ingredients

[@JackAnderson-ue7lm]

Excellent, but why the 2022 Consumer Reports study showing some chocolates, like Lindt, have near tocic levels of carcinogenes cadium and lead ??? Taza mentioned in podcast does not.

[@samplay4626]

I noticed that and agree: no mention of heavy metal like cadium!!

[@wendylink7526]

Just drink cacao powder, it’s much healthier, adding cinnamon or vanilla extract will make it taste slightly sweet, no sugar needed.

[@wendylink7526]

Opt for brands with third party testing on heavy metals

[@keithpp1]

One place will find quality chocolate in specialty coffee shops. Find in Athens, starting to find in England. In Nottingham and Sheffield, will find craft chocolate in specialty coffee shops.

[@heqaib]

I am glad i don't like sweet food. A professor of mine in my first year at university said we should exercise at the dinner table: Push yourself away. That's what i do with chocolate or any food that requires sugar to be added.

[@jacintawaruimbo5321]

Do you get more benefit when you use as a drink

[@melusine826]

14:47 whats "room temperature "? I live in qld and its usually 20-30 plus°c

[@Brian-ug3cy]

Did you cover heavy metal content in chocolate?

[@suewatson1763]

Any recommendations for Australian consumers please

[@keithpp1]

Two examples of high quality craft chocolate - Luisa's - Bullion Luisa has won bronze, silver and gold from the Academy of Chocolate. She also won an award for Rising Star. This is comparable to winning bronze, silver and gold at the Olympics. An example of poor quality industrial chocolate - Tony's Chocoloney Even worse than Cadbury's. Even worse than Tony's Chocoloney, Oxfam's copy.

[@lalitavajra6078]

Really interesting and informing for me. Great hints for tasting thank you. Wish there were Chocolate festivals in the way that there are Beer Festivals. Thanks so much Spencer and team.

[@nicolabatty7974]

Really glad he pushed back on Sarah's comment (from 38:00). We need to stop treating our pleasure as the most important thing, especially when we so many problems in food industry, hurting both people and animals. Eating a four pack of cheap twirls is bound to make you hungrier later so you end up eating more food anyway, which is not cheap way to live when you add it up. I think this myth needs busting a bit.

[@alisonmiles5989]

I’d love to give Zoe a try. I filled in the questionnaire and when I got to the end it said that Zoe isn’t suitable for coeliacs. It might be better if you said that at the start. Or perhaps things have moved on since then…?

[@ceciliasilver2911]

Montezuma's Absolute Black 100% Cocoa Chocolate available in the UK, didn't get a mention either.

[@chicfifty5067]

And available on Amazon. The one with almonds is good too.

[@stephanietaraderby8376]

Maybe he wants you to buy his £10 chocolate bars instead.

[@sh8736]

So no good chocolate in Waitrose or hotel chocolate in the UK?

[@zivzulander]

Okay, so take my opinion with a grain of salt as I'm an American just browsing Waitrose's site, and pulling these options just based on ingredients, descriptions, and reviews on the site. But these are what I'd consider based on those factors. "Single-origin" is usually the best, singular sign of *potentially* decent chocolate quality to me, though not foolproof: - Willie's Cacao (e.g. their Chef's Drops, which are Venezuelan single estate - this is couverture, but I have no shame in snacking on chocolate "intended" for cooking uses 😁) This brand seems to be a genuine craft/bean-to-bar option, and other commenters seem to concur - Willie's Cacao Venezuelan Black: this is pure cacao/cocoa powder, Venezuelan origin (can cook with this or make hot chocolate/cocoa) - Raw Halo Dark 85% - Divine Fairtrade 70% Dark Chocolate - Montezuma (they have a 100% cocoa bar, which may be too intensely bitter for some). This brand may be too commercial/processed, at this point, judging by other comments, but might be a fair option to try. From what I can tell, your other best options are house-brand (Waitroses own brands): No.1 Dark Chocolate (description says single origin: Ecuador for one, Peru for another - these might be best option after Willie's, actually), Cooks' Ingredients, and the simple "Waitrose" branded ones, ideally higher cacao/cocoa percentages if looking for nutrition quality and maximum cacao flavor.

[@reggiefrank]

@ZOE -- There's an extremely distracting high frequency buzz coming from the mics of Spencer Hyman & Prof. Sarah Berry. I hope y'all can find a fix for it because I love ZOE content, but this made it hard to listen to this video. It very clearly happens at 12:00 where nobody is talking but the loud high pitch buzzing is definitely coming though (if your ears are young enough to notice it).

[@javhincapie]

What about dutched (alkalized cocoa) vs undutched chocolate and the impact on flavanols levels?

[@spinningtop3584]

An incredibly interesting watch!

[@Natureburg]

Can you please make a video on chocolate and women health specifically relationship with breast issues in women? We truly appreciate it.

[@maggieframpton5435]

I was very disappointed that UK supermarkets have no good craft chocolates but I was more disappointed that UK listeners weren't told where to find it.

[@stephanietaraderby8376]

Me too. There was also no mention of all the fair trade dark chocolates available in supermarkets, and whether these are good options for those who can't afford £10 bars. The supermarket examples he brought out were disingenuous. Everyone surely knows Bournville is crap. And he chose to use a Lindt bar with milk powder when the 70 and 85% do not have have milk powder. Really unhelpful.

[@jacintawaruimbo5321]

Is it healthy to mix coffee with chocolate because I do that and they taste nice together

[@zivzulander]

There's no harm to it, as far as I know! They indeed can be quite complementary as well as similar in flavor. I love chocolate and coffee. 🤤

[@zoeward4555]

I am missing something. If "good" chocolate with more polyphenols in, is one where there is more fibre - you can tell a "good" chocolate by looking at the fibre content? The Taza brand mentioned has approx 17-20g fibre per 100g for dark chocolates.

[@Chocoladeverkopers]

No fibres does not have to do with polyphenols. Basically you cannot tell as polyphenols are not mentioned. However if a chocolate is roasted on lower temperatures it will contain more, and ofcourse if there is more cocoa there is also more polyphenols. It depends on more but this means the really dark burned tasting chocolates or chocolates with loads of sugars are certainly not good sources.

[@louannlarsen5104]

I wish they would address the lead and cadmium that Consumer Reports found in chocolate.

[@wendyhowiantz3218]

Why does the transcript take me to the article on seed oils and NOT the one on chocolate.??

[@melusine826]

I have never thought all chocolate is the same. I was horrified when i went to belgium and not ONE of the innumerable chocolate shops had no clue where their cocoa came from and how. So bought no chocolate

[@alex00731]

Very interesting 👌 I just feed my neurons. THANKS ✨️

[@rolandlickert2904]

As my home is Bali im lucky plenty of Indonesian Choclate made up to 95%dark chocolate no Sugar added. I eat 30gr a Day with my Machiato made w Almondmilk

[@IoannisPanagiotopoulos]

I've watched most of the Zoe podcast, but this one was below par. Missed completely cocoa alkalization process analysis and other factors that could help a customer choose. In the end comparing mass production sugar chocolate bars with craft ones is pointless. Try comparing high-end high cocoa industialized bars like Lindt 85% with other craft, or give some more details on how to choose a good bar.

[@r.michaelharding760]

I totally agree. Lots of talk about “healthy” chocolate, **BUT** no discussion about the huge problem with toxic levels of heavy metal contamination in chocolate (lead and cadmium->both very nasty for human physiology). Plus, the simple fact that “Dutch” process chocolate means the cocoa is alkalinized to reduce the bitter flavor of the finished chocolate product. Unfortunately, the alkalinizing that is done during the “Dutch” process also destroys the flavonoids that give chocolate all of its’ health benefits. No question that Zoe really dropped the ball…. And, kind of wondering what level of heavy metal contamination might be present in the chocolates that their guest sells and/or promotes?

[@mapuaharry]

yeah starts to make me feel slightly frustrated because where on earth do i get that without breaking a bank. Pretty good episodes for the ones with access to "craft chocolate", in the meantime i am sticking to cacao non-alkalized powder produced in the Philippines.

[@Chocoladeverkopers]

​@@r.michaelharding760 Luckily for those living in EU there are limits on cadmium in place now for a couple years already. For those in UK/USA (outside of California) they will have to take a guess.. Although people should also realise cadmium is in everything (growing in the earth), from potatoes to carrots, and not as the news sometimes suggests something that magically appears only/mainly in chocolate... (which is why the EU limits are also for a whole range of products). For processing (incl dutching) it is quite simply one advice - avoid the big processers, who make at least 95% of supermarket bars. They are mostly made with extras (incl lecithins) and highly processed, with cocoa and cocoa butter first seperated, then treated, then combined. There are always exceptions but the whole idea of craft chocolate is to use the bean and make that into chocolate instead of the whole seperation of different products. Yes, that 'breaks the bank' as others say but those who know the process of industrial chocolate and that of 'artisan' bean to bar chocolate making know all too well why this is justified, and for me (and us) the simple taste difference is what makes it so. Or buy (or grow) your own cocoa, as long as you have a grinder and oven you can make chocolates.

[@Dunk0The0Punk]

I am surprised too that there was no discussion regarding Heavy Metals Contamination in Chocolate, it stands to reason that where the beans are sourced some countries do not have strict or good health and safety regulation. So what about it Spencer ?

[@avg4015]

Is craft chocolate the same as fair trade chocolate?

[@tincanguru]

no

[@littleboots9800]

No, although some craft chocolate could be fair-trade but fair-trade refers to conditions for workers and investment into the communities. Craft chocolate is like the difference between artisan bread and a sliced white cheap supermarket loaf. It's high quality ingredients, single origin beans rather than a blend from different places, manufacturing processes that preserve complex flavours.