Everything You Thought You Knew About Protein Is Wrong | Stanford's Professor Christopher Gardner

[@stevelanghorn1407]

I’m sure it’s more very well-intended dietary information. The trouble is the masses are bombarded with such totally opposing advice and information from equally eloquent, articulate, convincing, apparently highly intelligent individuals. It’s so utterly confusing.

[@trotskyite1]

Just see who's selling a book and a line of supplements and disregard

[@stevelanghorn1407]

@@trotskyite1 Good advice! Thanks

[@joinZOE]

Hi Steve and thanks for your comment. The world of nutrition can be tricky to navigate, particularly when scientists have different opinions on the same topic! We always reference the evidence discussed in our show notes, so that you can trace everything back to its source. Hope this is helpful, let me know if you think there's anything else we can do to help 🙏

[@stevelanghorn1407]

@@joinZOE Many thanks for taking time to reply. I’ve always trusted the advice here on your channel. My comment was because of the broader issue. To take my one tiny example…STATINS…Good or Bad? HIGH CHOLESTEROL…OK…or not? SATURATED FATS…Good or Bad? ANIMAL versus VEGETARIAN / VEGAN for heart health? The list goes on…and so many opposing KZbin “big brains” seem convinced they know and have “The Panacea”…and are (sometimes) blatantly cashing-in on the vulnerabilities of many & on our confused search for guidance.

[@La_sagne]

check if they have a degree that actually relates to what theyre talking about... be very sceptical when they have no degree or when theyre chiropractors talking about nutrition

[@lam7750]

After all the wonderful talks and explanations given by your guest speaker and by zillion other scientists and nutritionists out there, I decided to just NOT STRESS about these matters. Just eat healthy and a variety of foods to the extent possible and within my means, and forget the rest.

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@noli.me.tangere]

Yes, correct. Your diet only has to be as natural and diverse as possible. All the scientists and nutritionists give you mumbo jumbo buzz words like "protein" and "saturated fat" and "calories" to confuse and frustrate you until you give up and go back to eating processed food.

[@ritasicari7518]

He said it all comes down to calories, yet other "experts" on this podcast have said calories are meaningless. No wonder people have eating disorders.

[@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og]

Lol exactly.

[@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og]

It also highly depends on what you’re doing. If getting jacked then ofc need tone of protein lmao. No mention here

[@mroqido9987]

@@VladimirKirichenko-yd6og no mention here? Did you have your device muted, my friend?

[@Sam-bn7jk]

this guy is a clown, not aware even of the concept of "randomized clinical trial". Just the fact that he totally ignores the hormones role and thinks about calories only like an early 20th century scientist says it all.

[@paulgoogol2652]

There's a lot debate on calories as how much energy a body can extract from them is individual depending on their microbiome and the body in general. Genetics, fitness, activity etc. A person doing physical work or workout will benefit far more from carbohydrates than office workers. Diet is a very complex issue with a lot of incertainty involved so I would trust less a person who is overly confident in what he says contradicting lots of peers.

[@yakovduque8077]

My mother is a vegan (shes been a vegan for many years and knows the ins and outs) and I have subscribed to the mixing of grains and veggies for a complete amino acid profile to find out for myself. This are the results I got after a few months: I found myself hungry all the time, eating large quantities of food many times a day, raging from 4 to 7 times, and still not feeling satiated even though my stomach was stretched out from all the food, to finally after a over a month or two I stated experiencing connecting tissue injuries on my knees and elbows, excessive muscle soreness, and a few muscle partial tears ( I play volleyball, mountain bike, and work out) never had that happening on a balanced omnivore diet. once I went back to a balanced diet eating a combination of all sorts of things including veggies, dairy, meats, poultry, eggs some grains , etc.. those ailments went away slowly almost at the same rate it took them to manifest while on a vegan/vegetarian diet. Just sharing my experience (now I started consuming whey protein daily as well)

[@greuju]

Yeah I'd say essentially no one can eat that kind of diet and have optimal health. Most people just get used to it and some are more resilient to that much plant material. I had a 200-300 lb vegan couple as roommates that would always talk crap about the meat I ate. 😂 The big issue with a lot of this, most of these scientists haven't reached close to their ideal body composition. So they don't even know what they're talking about.

[@greuju]

I could handle protein powder that was mixed, all plant. Forgot what it's called. Sun warrior? But if I tried to get it from the actual food it was a nightmare.

[@samreh6156]

Humans are omnivores. Some need more and others less animal protein. I eat a little bit of chicken, cheese, and some sardines every now and then. Otherwise I eat a wide variety of plant food and work out regularly.

[@greuju]

@@samreh6156 sardines are one of the best foods I still can't eat. 😭

[@nomandad2000]

@@greuju Look up “vegan athletes” “vegan bodybuilders” “vegan centarians”. This is nothing new.

[@atleyflenner]

My personal experience does not align with this guy's talk. Just working out without adding extra protien for a few months did not build muscle. I had to add extra to see results. Diet is crazy important at least in my experience.

[@benthornhill7903]

There's a big difference between bulking up and healthy functioning and maintenance. Even so, if you're taking protein powders and going overboard on the protein, you'll be pissing a lot of it out.

[@Drewsarchus]

the science of what he’s saying is backed up by peer-reviewed meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. the number one factor in growing muscle while on a resistance/hypertrophy muscle building focused routine is sleep quality and quantity followed by overall calorie surplus. if you hit above the RDA of protein and make sure you are consuming enough calories over maintenance while active, and get enough quality sleep, you will build muscle. you won’t need upwards of 150-200 grams of protein a day for that to happen. anecdotal, but there’s enough examples of vegan bodybuilders to prove this is true. i’d say hit the RDA of protein a day from the sources that make you happy and that you can stick to, consume a decent balance of healthy carbs and fats additionally to hit your daily requirement of calories and focus on good sleep. the average healthy person can do 3, 30 minute minute resistance routines a week if everything else above is on point and gain substantial muscle

[@soonahero]

⁠@@Drewsarchusthis is completely antithetical to every bodybuilders experience, every bodybuilder’s coach experience, and all sports training nutrition science. With your conceptualization, people will plateau in about a few months. This guy was talking about putting on 10 kilos of muscle in a year. A world class natural bodybuilders puts on 15 kilos of muscle in their entire career.

[@tiblends5423]

@@soonahero yes thank you!! gaining that much muscle just doing the same old thing, that is the most idiot thing, i am in no way a body builder but i have worked out for a year almost just to gain like 3 kilos and i was underweight, and no one knows how much of the 3 kilos is actually muscle, this guy is just saying things to make people feel happy

[@SanatoZen]

​@@soonaherothe head of nephrology department where I used to study would tell me how common most his unit would have renal failure cases that were athletes in their 40s that never knew how to consume proteins. So yeah, better listen to my gym coach than the nutrition expert.

[@VesS0ul]

Whoever hosts a discussion between Christopher Gardner and Peter Attia will become a legend!

[@orbifold4387]

The problem is that others like Don Layman are claiming the opposite, that iis we are not consuming enough protein. The idea that we should be consuming at least 2-3 protein-rich meals daily isn't discussed here. By "protein-rich", I mean enough protein to stimulate protein synthesis (muscle growth and repair), which is equivalently to consuming at least 2-5g of leucine in a single meal. According to Layman, most Americans only eat one protein-rich meal a day (usually dinner) and spend up to 22 hours per day wasting precious muscle mass in a catabolic state. To stop this catabolic state after an overnight fast, one could eat 4-5 eggs, or 100g of chicken breast. But as much as I like hummus, half a kilo of the stuff right after waking up is way too much for my poor lazy gut.

[@akospokovai413]

It's so frustrating that these doctors state exactly the opposite. one side says "You need only 0.8g protein/kg/day", the other says "you need 30gprotein per meal, below that it goes to waste because mtor is not stimulated". And all of them are 100% sure that they are right. And all of them have spent their whole life studying that and get the opposite result. So, if the 30g/meal protein requirement is valid, and beans are the "good" protein is valid , then you need to eat 1.5 can of beans 3 times a day to get enough leucine for each meal. nonsense.

[@marktapley7571]

Note also that eating all that grain will spike a lot of insulin (fat storage) in order to get the little bit of protein.

[@spiral-m]

@@marktapley7571 the traditional Okinawans didn't have any problem with high carb. Whole and refined carbs are like night and day, despite what some religiously claim.

[@paulb8251]

Your body is extremely complex and you don’t need to consume a “compete protein” in one meal to utilize the other essential amino acids within those proteins. You can do that with plants you don’t need the eggs and chicken breast. Humans wouldn’t have made it this far in evolution of that were the case.

[@akospokovai413]

@@paulb8251 Don Layman states exactly the opposite.

[@dperl5640]

Just came across this channel for this topic. I have to say this host has an incredible ability to take something the professor says and makes it so easy to understand. His analogies are brilliant! I mean him taking the topic of aminos and how they break down and are utilized and says "basically it is like eating Shakespear and a comic book and by the time the body uses it it is simply letters so it has no idea where those letters came from". Amazing ability. I will definitely be checking this channel out more often

[@anonymousl5150]

Both men in the video are very uneducated. They claim animal protein is bad because of saturated fats, which is just 50 year old outdated information. Worse they recommend bean for protein intake when beans are some of the most dangerous lectin infested garbage to hinder your nutritional gaions.

[@samiryan214]

I think the host is an autistic that's why he's excel in what he's doing lol

[@oliverleslie7382]

Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@samiryan214]

@@oliverleslie7382 You're fabulous, I need to read more about: "Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly."

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@Danielle-zq7kb]

At 14:00 - the subjects of the study to determine protein RDA were young men, so the protein requirements of children, women, older adults, pregnant women and the elderly were not taken into account for protein requirements.Also, some people can’t properly synthesize all the amino acids that they should.

[@robinmorgan2713]

So critical! So unbelievably blinkered that this is "everybody" when certainly is not.

[@tryptamigo]

he says literally immediately after that that they based the RDA on a bell curve that targets just about everyone in the population. there is even margin of error to consider variance in digestibility and synthesis. yet the average American still eats twice that amount.

[@tomdorsey1928]

Glossing over protein bio-availability seems like a huge gap in this discussion. If I use a protein source in my diet that is not digestible that means I would need to eat more of it to get the same level in the body right?

[@OdinsSage]

Yes, but this discussion was about averages, not the outliers. There are people who struggle more to absorb certain amino acids, but generally having a well balanced whole food diet is enough to make up for those areas of stuggle.

[@elvnprince]

Yes, bioavailability is so important!!! People are so used to not feeling great that they think it doesn't matter.

[@gymratnoah2259]

Do you think taking BCAA supplements would help if you don't have a balanced whole food plant based diet?

[@sosalty701]

Yes, and there’s a Protein Bioavailability Scale for a reason. Also physical activity matters.

How do you know that it's very important? What studies do you have to back that up?

[@rmoore1969]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🤖 Introduction to Protein 03:03 🧬 Protein's Role and Complexity 07:34 🍽️ Protein Requirements: EAR and RDA 17:12 🏋️‍♂️ Controversy over Protein Intake 22:05 🥖 Carbohydrates vs. Fat Storage 23:50 🍗 Protein Storage in the Body 25:08 🍖 Protein and Kidney Health 26:36 🏋️ Protein Requirements for Athletes 28:51 🧒 Protein Needs at Different Ages - Children 30:10 🧓 Protein Needs at Different Ages - Elderly 35:14 🌱 Plant-Based Protein vs. Animal Protein 39:21 🍲 Healthiest and Tastiest Protein Sources 42:31 🍔 Protein and Diet 43:00 🥩 Plant-Based Protein 44:50 🍫 Protein Bars vs. Chocolate Bars Made with HARPA AI

[@resurgem]

Thank you, this is helpful.

[@jhor729]

doing the good work

[@Muuip]

Thank you!!👍

[@mubizz80]

If the body cannot differentiate proteins from plants or animals and sugars from natural fruits and industrial sugars, then it's true, all the so-called educated elites are nothing but a bunch of crooks and liars. We should focus back on our foreparents' ways of natural feeding.

[@rahulbhati439]

Thanks so much!

[@rachaelrb]

What a stress reliever! I just lost a kidney and I have been worried about fitness and kidney health. Thank you, thank you!

[@maleks3121]

I have been vegetarian/vegan since I was 7 years old. I'm in my mid twenties. I run, hike, read, write. I feel good. Thanks for reassuring me I'm fine!!

[@gapat8213]

You are but majority of people wouldnt be.

[@newwonderer]

it is strange that you need "reassuring" ... you can feel it : if you feel great - then you wouldn't need it

[@oppothumbs1]

Watch out for Iron deficiency. B-12. low Creatine. Carnosine. Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). You should supplement. Vegetarian men live for an average of 7 years longer than non-vegetarian men but it's 7 very painful years.

[@barbh6987]

Yes, and start the d3, probably 1000IU and B12 1000 MCG. That's what I take. I'm a vegetarian for 50 years and just improved my bones to osteopenia. Keep a close watch of your bone health lots of walking and weight bearing exercises. You'll be just fine!

[@toulcas3448]

The point is to keep doing this till your mid seventies and be healthy.

[@hatezbaszaras]

It's clear that the podcast missed some crucial points about the benefits of extra dietary protein for body composition goals. They didn't touch on the mTOR pathway, the satiating effects, or the energy expenditure aspect. Overlooking these factors might leave listeners unconvinced, especially when it comes to understanding how protein can potentially lead to less fat gain compared to fat or carbs. Additionally, focusing solely on a group that maintains muscle mass doesn't address the broader goal of muscle growth that many individuals strive for. im quite disappointed

[@ondrej1893]

It seems some people measure "proteosynthesis", or at least measure it indirectly, and base protein recommendations on that measurement maxing out or peaking, and then they assume this should mean quicker muscle building over time, not necessarily more muscle overall, as we inevitably hit our genetic limit, just faster rate of muscle gain. But Brad Pilon rightly pointed out that if you actually measure muscle gain in studies, people simply gain 2 to 5 pounds of muscle on average over several months, and that is true also in studies with "low" levels of protein Christopher Gardener would recommend. Pilon's final recommendation was 70-120g of protein /day.

[@Wisey_83]

Yep. Difficult to stay interested when these things are not being considered. - it burns hotter. - its more satiating that carbs. He also left out the importance of one particular amino acid, Leucine. Literally the most important if you're wanting to maintain/build muscle/improve body comp.

[@Hao-hi3yb]

@@Wisey_83 it is without a doubt that increased protein consumption is necessary if you are consistently undergoing muscular hypertrophy, but carbs such as complex carbs often have a strong satiating effect in comparison to protein. I strongly recommend this video on it by RP kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJysfJipgK18f6c

[@rrteppo]

Yes, but it would have been a much longer video. This was a good light hearted intro interview for people to get interested in the topic.

[@SodaAvenue]

@hatezbaszaras all these you mentioned seems pretty complex terms for a clueless in how the body works scientifically wise for me. I'm not that interested in going full science based. You would lose me there. Do you or anyone know if there is any 30mins simpler yt videos explaining such terms more lightheartedly? Need some ideas as have some health issues and diet is pretty screwed up and am clueless. In terms how to get an idea for ppl whom constantly need intake small meals throughtout the day. Tyvm!

[@koraXro]

It's like asking: Is it true that you were born on your birthday? 😅 The way questions are structured you can reach whatever conclusion you want. After watching and reading and listening to so many opinions and specialist the conclusion is always the same: 1. Don't overeat, 2. Eat all groups of foods 3. Don't eat processed foods and sugars 4 . Hydrate 5. (the most important) do things that make you happy, stress is the silent killer

[@sanbiki1453]

Yep, I got to same conclusion yesterday. After so many contradictory evidences on diets, I got overwhelmed and messed up my brain. I thought how on earth can all of them show science that this and this diet cures cancer ( currently treating my husband’s tumor). I cried out of despair, because I got so confused. And finally, got to the same conclusion as you mentioned here, so true, so true!

[@pavloshtefanesku5109]

... unless stress makes you happy ;) Exercises, cold shower and even alarm clock - are good stressors if used properly :)

[@robinhood4640]

They all think that they are thinking out of the box, when in reality they just climbed out of the big box into a little box. Now they shout from the little box that their diet is absolutely amazing and everyone else is lying when they show that their diet works. Whenever a specific diet doesn't work, the next step is to filter the water you drink and the air you breathe and when things start getting better it's because of the amazing diet. The same amazing diet you followed for two years without seeing any benefits.

[@godnyx117]

@@sanbiki1453 Carbohydrates are sugar with extra steps. Sugar (sucrose) is Disaccharide (link of two Monosaccharides) of the Monosaccharides Glucose and Fructose. Carbohydrates are complex connections from 11 up to thousands of them. But in the end, the break down to glucose, fructose and galactose. You can find more on Wikipedia and you can see KZbin videos that analyze it better. Good luck to your husband, hope everything goes well!

[@godnyx117]

@@pavloshtefanesku5109 Nope! You may get used to it but it never makes you "happy". I do know a guy who has said that he likes the "productive stress" and he takes antidepressants (which despite my own depression and even suicidal thoughts, I never taken) and when he tried to cut them (or lower them a lot, I don't remember exactly), it effected him negatively. Your hidden stress will always manifest in your life somehow! This may be the chronic feeling that things are never enough and that you are truly never happy, it might be aggression, it might be fair, it might be physical and physiological health problems, it can be anything. Stress is the biggest killer in life!

[@psychalogy]

That Master’s student study he referenced had six people per test condition and ran for four weeks. It’s not surprising at all that the results didn’t reach statistical significance. It sounds like one of the most underpowered studies ever devised.

[@superkev500]

He pointed out it was a preliminary study , that's how it works in academic research.

[@psychalogy]

@@superkev500 a study that underpowered fails even as a preliminary study. Seems more like an exercise for the student to go through, not actual research that was supposed to reveal anything.

[@sophiekarnak3936]

You misunderstood the study: EVERY subject did a vegan diet for 4 weeks, an omnivorous diet for 4 weeks, and a plant-based meat substitute diet for 4 weeks, so each athlete served as his or her own control over the 12-week course of the study. And they found that although the subjects ate significantly less protein while they were on the vegan diet, there was no change in their performance despite the lower protein intake.

[@kingofwesteros9868]

@@sophiekarnak3936 "there was no change in their performance despite the lower protein intake" - that doesn't mean it was at least good, let alone outstanding. Their performance could be just decent.

[@griffinbur1118]

@@psychalogyRight. Sample sizes that small mean that noise almost inevitably overpowers signal. The possibility for problems in achieving truly random selection or controlling for covariates in the absence…overwhelming. It’s not preliminary, it’s just worthless.

[@peterfarr9591]

He's very charismatic and clearly quite sharp most of his reasoning for lower protein intake is mechanistic and doesn't take into account a multitude of studies that have shown benefits from much higher protein intake then the RDA. Sure, from a mechanistic point of view you could do the math and recommend insanely low protein intakes for weight lifters but real world data just doesn't bear that out at all

[@laurabenavides5444]

What I understood is that as long as you eat the 40 amino acids that are found in both plants and meats, you should be ok. Doesn't matter where is coming from. Also, it makes sense for people in the carnivore diet to be fine because meat has all the 40 amino acids they need to survive, unless they have liver and kidney issues? I wanted him to address ultra process food, but oh well.

[@nimkal]

​@@laurabenavides5444 but it does matter... vegan protein is much less bio available for humans and will not be absorbed as efficiently

[@laurabenavides5444]

@@nimkal not according to what he says. But I am not a nutritionist or dietician, or a doctor. However, I know people that are vegan and they are healthy and physically look great.

[@nimkal]

@@laurabenavides5444 vegans have tons of mineral and vitamin deficiencies and must supplement to remain healthy. It's not a diet meant for humans.

[@robokill387]

Bodybuilders and athletes need more protein than he average person, yes. However, most people are eating far, far more protein than they need to, most protein people eat is excreted in urine, that's a basic verifiable fact.

[@nikola.despotovic]

This is the best interview on protein I've ever seen. I read this book "Understanding Nutrition" when I was about 18 years old (I'm 34 now), and it suggested that protein RDA for healthy adult is about 0.8 grams per kilogram of bodyweight. So I dropped every protein supplement, since I was eating more than twice the recommended amount through regular food alone, and I actually felt and performed better. Also, heartburn and bloating went away in very short time frame. So basically, for years, I've been explaining to people why the vast majority of them don't need to spend money and effort on supplementing protein, and many think I don't know what I'm talking about. I believe the main problem is that regular people generally blindly listen to influential people in fitness industry and very few actually question their advice and pick up a textbook or two. Keep up the good work.

[@margottfon330]

Yes, that's what many ppl do. They just follow ppl in fitness industry and/ or textbooks, but those textbooks are also written by ppl, and lots of 'ppl just blindly follow' ppl's advises in those textbooks.

[@nikola.despotovic]

@@margottfon330 I would argue that in general people who read books that are studied at schools and universities are less likely to blindly follow anything, because they are trying to learn. On the other hand, people without any base knowledge, who are just following certain influencers, are less likely to question anything, again in general. Also, influencers tend to jump on trends that bring them views, so keep that in mind too. Just my opinion.

[@jwinchester1320]

At my level of activity 2.2g/kg bodyweight is truly what I need. It is Not the same for everyone. If you don't do shit all day, then yes, eat less protein. If you are highly active you sure as shit need A LOT more. It's irritating when these people come out with these one size fits all discussions. He never added in that people who are active need more.

[@margottfon330]

@@nikola.despotovic books don't make you smarter, it's you who makes smart/not smart conclusions as a result of reading them. Just keep that in mind. .....prof. Political Science..

[@bardsamok9221]

@@margottfon330 Good point. In a sea of data it takes work on personal wisdom and critical thought to better understand which books to read, and studies to assess. Regarding KZbinrs.. There are a few individuals on KZbin with excellent acumen in this regard whilst holding high personal integrity with no political or biased agenda, but sadly they are not on this video.

[@ROFLPirate_x]

I personally aim for a higher protein diet because generally it helps me feel more satisfied and fuller for longer, making it harder to overeat. There is also the thermic effect of protein, as your body has to put work in to break it down into carbs allowing me to have slower release of energy throughout the day, rather than spiking my blood suger from eating more carbs and getting into hunger cycles. Obviously everyone is different, its about finding what works for you to make sure you don't overeat. Fibre and protein work for me. If i make most of my diet carbs/fats, its very easy for me to eat way too much.

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

Fiber fills you up, so try not eating processed carbs foods and instead eating natural foods containing fiber… if you claim this doesn’t work (it does and it stabilizes BG) that only tells me you’ve never tried it 😂 Carnivores make all these excuses that don’t hold up under even the slightest scrutiny

[@ROFLPirate_x]

@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 if you read the rest of my comment you would have seen my reference to eating fibre. Most of my diet is made up of leafy greens, nuts/legumes, meat and cheese. Keeps me ful even at 1200kcal days with an IF regiment. You are arguing with thin air right now..

[@ln5747]

​@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 What doesn't hold up reference carnivore diet?

[@OdinsSage]

If your diet is high in fibre, how are you getting that if you're eating low carbs? Fibre isn't found in animal products.

[@ROFLPirate_x]

@@OdinsSage by eating vegetables and staying away from starchy carbs and sugar?

[@pa-mo]

I think there's a lot missing from this analysis, specifically for the large % of the population that has insulin resistance, from the top of my head: 1. Eating a higher % protein makes humans feel more full, making it easier to eat less 2. Eating a higher % protein allows muscles to recover more quickly, making it easier to workout harder/more often Also the in/out analysis misses the idea that flooding the body with extra protein allows it to reach everywhere it is needed since the body is not perfect at distributing every bit of amino acids everywhere it could be used.

[@robertalenrichter]

He made sure to talk about hormones in meat (banned in the EU), but somehow forgot to mention that conventional agriculture soaks vegetables in pesticides. This is such a transparent attempt to manipulate behaviour.

[@phizzyd0872]

And what do you think cattle eat? Pesticide laden feed such as soy and corn plus hormones. You get a worse shot eating meat because they accumulate in their bodies

[@kiss4luna]

yeah, it's very funny hearing he saying that. in my country, some of the problem of eating vegetables are people get poisoned by pesticides. it's just extremely difficulty to get rid of plant-eating bugs without using pesticides.

[@rumble1925]

@@kiss4luna vegetables have a bunch of naturally occurring pesticides. In fact tens of thousands more, so you will get cancer either way lol

[@afghanica]

BEEF BOT SEZ HWUT!?

[@earthmamma85]

As someone who was a wfpb vegan for almost 5 years, I will tell you that I feel much better adding in meats and saturated fat and cutting down on plants and fiber. Find a balance…eat real foods.

[@laifnow]

Varied vegan diet f****d my intrinsic factor and led to B12 deficiency and pernicious anaemia with muscle atrophy and nerve-sheath (myelin) damage. Some red meat is good for you, but usually men eat much more meats than women and most research is done with men, so sisters, please be mindful when following any medical/dietary guidelines.

[@jwatkins672012]

Surprisingly never mentions mushrooms. I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but mushrooms having complete proteins in a fairly balanced distribution of essential amino acids are another key food in those diets. And cheap, one can take straw and use mushrooms to convert to protein. One 33 lb straw bale can convert to hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of mushrooms. Unlike nuts, mushroom allergies are rare.

[@stiemogo]

This man’s science is very very old. There have been huge discoveries made in nutrition even within the past five years. He is citing research from the 1950s. Also, the research he is citing doesn’t make a lot of sense. They measured how much protein was going in and out of the people, but they didn’t measure the protein that was being used by the body to rebuild vital organs, or even to be used as fuel if those people entered ketosis. he also seems very self inflated and proud of himself. (which would be fine, if his information or actually still valid)

[@peterparahuz7094]

apparently consuming protein keeps you satiated longer than eating the equivalent calories in carbs. if so, consuming a higher proportion of calories from protein could aid in maintaining a calorie deficit during a weight loss diet.

[@77dris]

Bingo.

[@lejlateletovic5225]

Fibers + fat + protein is what keeps us satiated. And everything that raises insulin levels will make us hungry faster.

[@oliverleslie7382]

ifbacongrewontrees.wordpress.com/2023/09/14/how-do-you-get-your-proteins/

[@SL-wt8fm]

​@@lejlateletovic5225why tho?

[@bjmaston]

The proximate answer is: it’s evolutionary. The ultimate answer may never be known. I speculate that carbs were hard to come by for most of history and humans evolved a gorge response to take advantage of whenever they were found.

[@natpaolone3897]

prof. Don Layman, most cited protien researcher, “need at least 1.5gm protein per kg to increase muscle mass.” A discussion with these 2 fine men would be helpful 😊

[@papazjose1274]

The reason why we have (2) totally opposite scientific results is because people are different. Meaning these (2) scientists are both correct as long as you personally fit the respective model. In my case, I do not digest beans, but tofu. So, beans are out. In addition when I cut out or limit carbs I always lose weight and my blood sugar is stable. Blood sugar=Insulin levels highly dictate how fat a person is or will continue to gain weight. I have a bunch of my friends who are high carb burners, They can eat a loaf of bread and feel great. I eat the same loaf of bread, and I break into hives, have shortness of breath, etc.. Hope this makes sense

[@lokanoda]

Yes! Absolutely! I feel all these smart people are usually staying within their bias-confirming echo chambers. An intelligent discussion would be awesome.

[@uweschroeder]

Strange, I eat at least that but all that increases is the belly, not the muscle mass 🙂

[@natpaolone3897]

@@uweschroeder likely it’s not the protien increasing the body fat. Try just eating the protein. Belly will disappear.

[@uweschroeder]

@@natpaolone3897 I don't think much of malnutrition diets. Keto being one of them. I think if I would stop drinking that liter of wine a day the belly would disappear no matter what I eat...

[@robz9988]

From what I understand the RDA recommendation is meant to be a minimum, not an optimal amount. Secondly the recommendations are substantially below the 1g per pound (2.2g per kilo) recommended by others such as Dr Layman and Dr Lyons amongst others. It would be helpful if there could be an explanation as to why Professor Gardner differs from others who focus on this area. Also as we get older our ability to utilise protein goes down so we need more for that reason. Lastly the protocols recommended by Dr Layman says that in order to trigger the utilisation of the amino acids in protein there needs to be a minimum intake per meal of 20g (if you are younger) so that there is adequate Leucine etc to start the process.

[@aminreviews2311]

Although there are differences in what experts recommend as a daily requirement (0.8mg/kg vs 1mg/kd vs 1.2mg/kg), virtually all of these experts recognize that most people are eating more than any of these amounts without even trying. So it’s kind of a moot issue unless someone is on a low calorie diet.

[@MarmaladeINFP]

Many of the people in the field of nutrition state that a significant number of Americans don't get enough protein. We've been indoctrinated in a society that has warned against animal foods that are the main sources of bioavailable complete proteins.

[@god8348]

@@aminreviews2311people try to optimize certain aspects of their body and health. The American average is certainly not a good measurement in this regard

[@Alec_Collins78]

Yep. The internet is full of rich men who think their bank balances show their intelligence.

[@daves.9479]

No, the RDA is not meant to be a minimum, and there is no defined "optimal" amount. The RDA represents an adequate intake for almost everyone (97.5%) and more protein is not better, but rather is burned for its Calories and the N is excreted as urea in the urine.

[@dukkhan1288]

This is one of those examples where "The Science" just doesn't align with reality. Us "Muscle heads" eat a ton of protein because we know from experience that if we only eat the amount as described in this video, we have slower gains, slower recovery, and constant fatigue.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

This might look valid on paper and in lab experiments, but certainly is not in real life. I lift since I was 14 and for the first 20 years (so until I was 34) I did not take any supplements, just real food. I had a protein rich diet though and I surely had a good appetite. Never got heavier than 80-82 kg. At 34 I started taking 1-3 cups/day of whey and casein protein over my regular diet because I calculated how much protein I ate and most of the time it did not reach the recommended 160g based on my goal weight. And then boom, I got up to 90kg in a year and in top of that I got a bit leaner. No wonder that guys over 100-120kg eat over 200-220g a day. You gotta maintain that mass somehow and I think a lot of the protein you eat is actually burned for energy. If the zoot suit guys were twigboys who burned all the protein they ate this nitrogen in and out balance gives such a huge bias on recommended protein intake like the distance from here to the Moon. That experiment doesn't tell anything about what happens with the protein after they ingested it and I think its a huge mistake. Ronnie Coleman ate nearly 3 kg of chicken breasts a day and he was 'only' 135kg. He surely knew from his own experience very well how much protein he exactly needed to eat, because his body fat was below 1%. You can't do that if you overeat by a gram.

[@R.R.Brahma]

It is his experience but not science. So we can't follow him.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

@@R.R.Brahma LOL you say this as if science produced nothing but undeniable facts and the experience of 80 years of bodybuilding was nothing (not to mention that bodybuilding has a lot of scientific background back up by studies and evidence as well). But you can trust whatever you want of course, it's your life.

[@recumbentrocks2929]

To be fair you are looking at this from a super fit body builders perspective. Most of us are just normal people who just want to be healthy and not over weight.

[@gyurbanvikrenc8267]

@@recumbentrocks2929 Not necessarily a bodybuilders perspective, I used that as an example of one of the extremes (and the twigboy as the other extreme end of the spectrum). I'm just pointing out the flaws in this simplistic thinking, which suggests that people don't need to change their diet (and their lifestyle) to eat 'enough' protein, while generally people (especially in the US) eat too much carbs, too little protein, and from the latter not enough variety.

[@paulb8251]

Ronnie Coleman wasn’t below 1% BF lol..

[@carmenmichaelian8307]

I always knew this but now I know for sure. I'm a vegetarian that eats fish once in a while. I've been working out at the gym for 25 years and I have no problem with protein. I am 70 years old. Thank you for this video.

[@GeorginaHannaford-zw6cl]

@carmenmichaelian8307 I'm the same (vego, very strong active and healthy) but recently had a bone density scan and was found to be low. Have you ever had this scan? I'm 52 pre-menopausal and calcuim and vit D all fine.

[@m007mm]

​@@GeorginaHannaford-zw6cloxalates take calcium out of your blood. And your body takes it out of your bones. PlantsDefendThemselvesWithToxins...

[@m007mm]

Many people heal from many different diseases on an animal based diet.

[@carmenmichaelian8307]

I had that test also and my bones are dense. I had a hip replacement 6 years ago. I started drinking collagen 3 years ago and it helps. I believe that a good diet, low stress, and exercise are what make me healthy. I have hypothyroidism too. I eat vegetables, grains, beans and whatever has proper nutrition. I always move my body and have a mindful attitude.

[@ervinreyes6302]

If you eat fish do not label yourself as vegetarian.

[@user-id5fo5fv8r]

Using his example of rice, if someone does actually eat rice the whole day, he will not get enough protein unless he eats almost 2 kilos of rice in a day because 1 kilo of rice has 27 grams of protein. Whereas beef has 260 grams of protein in a kilo, therefore one needs to eat just 200 gms of beef in a day to get 52 gms.

[@kephir4eg]

I have a feeling he intentionally missed that very important distinction, which would make me think what else he omitted.

[@ethancharlton4626]

You should research Walter Kempner, you can definitely live on just rice

[@user-id5fo5fv8r]

@@bshoults81 right. So eat 1 kg of rice with 2-300 gms of legumes to get a protein equivalent of 200 gm's of beef.

[@user-id5fo5fv8r]

@@bshoults81 and what about the quality? Absorption and assimilation

[@AaronVets]

@@user-id5fo5fv8r 🤡

[@mariamabrahamyan188]

This is nuts. I don't care if he is a professor, nutritionist, or whoever else he is. Telling people that all protein is equal and the food source does not matter is nuts. It's true that for your body the amino acid source is not important, BUT you need to get those amino acids in the first place. It's not good if you are not getting enough or the right combination (amino acids work together). Not all foods have the same amino acid profile. AND even if the amino acid profile is the same, the amount of each amino acid differs in each food. You will not get the same results when you eat beef, eggs, cabbage, and rice compared with eating for example broccoli, beans, and apples. For example, beef will cover all your amino acid needs, while broccoli will not. BTW, it's not that I think it is not possible to meet your needs by eating plants. I just think it is much harder. I encourage everyone to check Gabriel Lion's and her colleagues' works

[@kl7985]

I'm so confused, tbh. Dr. Peter Attia suggests far more protein, as does Alan Aragorn and Mike Israetel. All are experts, who is right?

[@joquerol]

I think this is a very first world centric view. As a lean man from a third world country, I can tell you I never used to get enough protein by "just eating". Most people's diets here revolve around bread, rice, pasta, cookies, chips, and soda. We only ever eat any type of meat during lunch, and that's not every day, and it's a very low quality source like processed meats or fatty ground beef. It might be hard to imagine for some, but there are places where having eggs and ham in the morning, or having a bit of any high quality protein source for lunch or dinner is a bit of a luxury. And sure, we have a lot of people who overeat enough of everything to get a lot of protein in their diets, but as soon as you restrict your calories you risk being very low on protein and on many important vitamins, minerals, etc. When I started working out and tracking calories and macros, I had to put a lot of effort into making sure I hit the 0.8-1.6 grams/kilo they talk about. So all in all, there definitely are good reasons to supplement protein or to pay attention to how much protein you're getting. Especially when you're trying to lose weight and don't have constant affordable access to high quality protein sources.

[@temporaryname8905]

I live in the USA and am in your exact situation. Chicken? Too expensive. Beef? Even more expensive. Fish? Even MORE even more expensive.

[@stuartgray5136]

Absolutely fabulous podcast. I think it has helped me solve a problem. My heath and fitness journey started back in November of 2014. I was 270+ Pounds. I'm 6'1½ the program I set up for myself (based on losing 2 pounds a month) when according to schedule. I ended up dropping around 100 pounds. Over approximately 4 years. At about 58 months I committed to the gym to get back the the muscle mass I lost along the way. I was lean had 6 pack abs. I have gain back muscle mass. Now- in the past 1½ due to listening to many podcast about gaining muscle and protein. We are told about 1 gram of protein for every pound of muscle. I wanted to get to 180 pounds so I increased my protein from around 70 to 80 grams a day to 180 to 200 grams a day. What I've noticed (and note I had gain back muscle mass) is my abs are starting to dissappear. And I have a bit of a fat build up along a line at my belly button. Couldnt figure out the problem without probably going on a calorie restriction diet. I had a calorie intake at the time I was goingbto increase my protien between 2800 cals to 3200 cals per day. I replaced certain foods to compensate for my protein increases staying around the the same amount of calories 2800 to 3200. Side note: through my weight loss I was consuming I figure around 80 grams of protein. From this podcast I learned that excess protein is broken down into carbs and stored fat. Bingo! My fat gains around my abdominal are probably from the excess protein. Now I'm an going to go back to the 80 grams of protien and see what happens over time. Changing nothing but reduced protein from were I'm currently at. This makes sence to me since sine the only real change was increased protein levels. Thanks great info. I was 58 when I started my health and fitness journey and now I'm 67. Thank- Stuart Gray.

[@NoSmoke1]

Keep it up Mr. Gray ‼️💪🏽💪🏽

[@tomatojuice12]

Wow! So you are saying that the excess protein caused that extra belly fat?

[@remcogeelen]

​@@tomatojuice12Yes he is. As in, it probably did.

[@remcogeelen]

​@@tomatojuice12Excess protein intake is just excess calory intake. Some will surely be turned into sugar and/or fat. So for most people, even fit people going to gyms and all, 100+ grams of protein per day means nothing else than growing fat slowly.

[@spongebobsquaretits]

@@remcogeelen 100 grams is only 400 calories. Its not really excessive

[@manymoms920]

I’m in the uk, female and I’ve started to lift weights to combat muscle loss. I tracked my macros very accurately and my protein intake was very low. I think that in the US folks eat more protein than the uk. I personally think that the US diet stats are different from the UK. I aim for 1g of protein per kg of target body weight. I have to focus on this to achieve it. So whilst I love this Prof, I think some women in the uk are not in these US example group.

[@cleliamattana6582]

Europe as well.

[@DarkDonnieMarco]

Totally agree, I lift four times a week. I recently increased my protein intake to at least 100g a day through supplementation with whey isolate. The difference in my body shape in a matter of weeks after having lifted consistently for 2 years is nothing short of ridiculous. I have also noticed a huge reduction in fatigue.

[@Beerus7]

Wonderfully explained! Here's what bugs me. If an average male eats 3000 kcal and wants to optimize protein intake, he shouldn't have more than 100g of protein, right? We have 2600 kcal left for carbs and fats. If he chooses a high carb diet and has 75g of fat daily, that means he consumes 481g of carbs. On the other hand, if carbs are moderate, let's say 200g/day, that means he has 200g od fat daily. We often hear about excess carbs, fats, saturated fat etc and it sounds like it would be really hard to avoid in this scenario. Am I missing something?

[@colinwillis1373]

Yep I kind of came to the same conclusion. Also the whole demonstration is based on the average person in the US eating too much (of everything) but I'm not sure how it holds for someone who wants to be at a calorie equilibrium or even calorie deficit. In those cases it seems difficult to not care about protein.

[@jwoolman5]

If he needs 3000 calories, he is using carbohydrates for energy faster than most. They don’t have time to be converted into stored fat. His protein needs haven’t really changed that much. If he thinks he has to boost his protein outrageously, that protein will not be used for the usual protein tasks of repairing and building muscle and transporting other substances etc. It will be washed out with the urine or converted to stored fat or to carbohydrate if really needed for energy. It cannot be stored for a rainy day like fat and carbohydrates. Protein has certain structural and other useful functions that don’t increase the way carb needs can for a very active person. We usually store about a day’s worth of carbohydrate in an appropriate sugar form in our muscle cells for quick energy, but if someone is using up the carbs much faster - there will simply be more rapid turnover in those cells over the course of the day. So what looks like too much carbs may well not be too much for that person. What this means in practice is that if you are unusually active, focus on bumping up your carbohydrates, not your protein. You will still get more protein because high carb foods usually also have some protein, but anything beyond your needs will be wasted. Your body needs the energy in the carbs instead.

[@lukasvalkovic2205]

This is pretty confusing, because there are experts/scientists on both sides of this protein requirements debate. Some say 0,8g/kg is more than enough, some recommend 1,5-2g/kg or even higher.. and now what, simple man..

[@OdinsSage]

Look at who is funding the studies being used to justify both sides are.

[@ferrinheight]

10 years of plant based diet and have not worried about protein since I started. it is a blessing to hear this talk.

[@thehammer9599]

Are you gay?

[@edgbarra]

Amazing! I worried at the beginning. I get easily 90 gr. If I focus on it I can get much much more without problem. Btw I just focus a bit on that because I'm going to the gym

[@jessedeane6036]

Been Vegetarian since 1985 under The diet based on The Bhagavad Gita Ancient Vedic Knowledge. Also The Torah has same teaching Genesis Chapter 1.

[@buckmurdock2500]

@ferrinheight Plant based for the win ! ! !

[@Wealth_Wisdom_Discernment]

@@jessedeane6036you’ve only read parts of the Bible lol

[@goingwildagain]

So is it not that unused carbs are stored to fat. So many say Vegan has destroyed them over the longer term but when they have gone back to protein based they feel better and more vitalise. Who's the pay master for you people

[@Ensignpeak]

I'm not a PHD at Stanford but there are several key points he has omitted here.

[@blazguzelj7880]

Well dont keep us in the dark... share your wisdom.

[@JanLL]

There is a video in What I've Learned diacussing whether a protein is a protein highliting the diaas index

[@MillillioN]

Heya, I'd be interested to hear more. Can you point out what was missed out so that I can search for it.

[@JanLL]

Every protein totally broken down to the aminoacids level so that the body reconstructs all needed protein is not alway true, sometimes in fact looks like reaching down to peptides is enough, if not creatine would never work for instance, well, here follows the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnuxd2WVmaiKock

[@potterylady44]

Lol oh ok

[@BalancedMentality]

In my experience eating more protein makes it easier to lose fat, because I am full with less calories. Sure protein can also be converted into full, but this aspect was unfortunatly not addressed.

[@pa-mo]

This is exactly what I find as well. I'm not sure if it's the lower % carbs or the higher % protein or a combo of the two, but by cutting carbs & eating more protein I am simply less hungry, and for many that is the biggest problem to overcome.

[@keithzastrow]

@@pa-mo Same. Exactly this. Although generally foods high in fats (healthy fats) provide much more feeling of fullness.

[@robertseybold3665]

Agreed! 100g of pasta equals 360kcal, 100g of chicken breast is around 100kcal. You do the math.... I'd rather eat 200g of lean meat than 80g of pasta to get full. So you don't necessarily have to worry about not getting enough protein in your diet, but it CAN help, calories being equal! If you just slap a protein bar ON TOP of your regular junk diet....it's not going to help.

[@oliverleslie7382]

Professor Gardner is a nice guy, a smart guy - but once again, the sad reality is that what he knows, how he learned, was trained etc. is outdated data. Science is not static but it seems that with nutrition science - it very much is static. What we know today, 2023, November 28th at the time of this comment, is that we can't use dietary, supplementary, exogenous proteins and amino acids. @resurgem Which means, the statement "if we don't get proteins or AAs, we die" is incorrect. We humans, just like all the other 9 million species on earth, are genetically predisposed to make all the nutrients we need. Yes, the body can convert atmospheric Nitrogen, N2, into the user friendly N3 - so the nitrogen Balance standard for testing is moot null and void - another bit of old science understandings that were more assumptions than actual fact. Labs are now showing humans can in fact synthesize the so called essential amino acids like Leucine, Lysine, Threonine etc. Vegans are not lacking any nutrient in their diets. Those who fast for 20, 30, 40, 50 day water fasts are also not lacking any amino acids, or proteins etc. - and are not dying. The idea that we break down dietary proteins into the amino acids and then the body re employs them to make X - is false, it was stuff of yesteryear, an era where we had no way to really show this, no way to really prove this - and the number one reason for why we could not prove this, 50 years ago, or in the 1940s, the time the 'essential' narrative was born, was because we simply did not have the technology. And guess what, today, 2023, we Still don't have the tech to show exogenous proteins get cleaved, broke down to AAs and then those AAs go somewhere and get rebuilt into new proteins. In a lab, petri dish dynamics, we have some ideas about proteins and amino acids, but not at all in living cells that exist en vivo in real time, in living organisms. Even tagging and tracking proteins and AAs is poor science lacking in true tech to observe what happens when food is digested. The idea of dietary proteins is not how the body works. Proteins and AAs are all made in cells on a need to have and use basis, from scratch. This all only happens when fueled, and the fuels are water and sugar. All cells are fueled by sugars either directly or indirectly. Oliver

[@MariusMitrache]

@@oliverleslie7382You need friends, Oliver.

[@bartzed4305]

was brought up on eating carbs and vegeteables and continued doing that into my adult life which then also turned into somewhat low fat diet (a lot of lean white meat), until it became unstustainable, couple years ago made red meat the staple of my diet (with small sides of veggies and fermented foods) and noticed almost an instant change, no more brain fog, heartburn, indigestion, flatulance, energy crashes or need for afteroon naps. Introducing more fat into my died on it's own made a massive difference to my cognitive perfomance. Still having carbs and veggies but sparingly and with purpose, to either relax and fall asleep better (starchy stuff) or improve performance when training (fruits and grains).

[@jimn1023]

Well said. Saved me some writing. The recommendations overlook glycemic index. If protein is being converted to carbs that slows the metabolism of the foods. He vilifies saturated fat yet up to a certain proportion in the diet it isn't harmful. My criticism is that he oversimplifies a subject that for a portion of the population can be incredibly complex achieving the balance of satiety and proper nutrition.

[@freyfaust6218]

I didn't start to keep muscle tone, or recover from chronic depression and bronchitis until I started eating animal sources of food

[@freyfaust6218]

@Feed_Bleed_Read I started eating omnivorously at 37. I am now 64 and all my allergies are gone, I have no more chronic bronchitis and I am healthy as an ox. I teach and perform as a dancer and work on a farm. Build dry walls lifting rocks weighing 100s k and have a vital drive for life. I don't see a problem.

[@swites]

What I notice is men in general are obsessed with protein, so they'll eat their steaks eggs meat and dairy and then wash it all down with a protein shake. And on top of that swallow a load of supplements, and then say how superior their diet is "because protein". And I'm thinking if your diet is so great why do you need all those extras?

[@heezyforsheez]

Right?

[@oracla]

He is simplifying metabolism. It's not only about input and output. Most (chemical) reaction in living matter are in a certain equilibrium. What this means is that eating a surplus of protein shifts this equilibrium in favor of growing muscles. It improves the speed at which muscle grows. Even if not all protein is converted to muscle. This has been broadly proved in many studies in the last few years and results are very conclusive. Of course there are always some side effects, but in this case they don't seem to be really harmful if you don't overdo it. Also, plant protein is NOT the same as animal protein. The composition of "letters" is vastly different. Needless to say, animal sources have a more useful composition for human needs. In order to get the same benefit, you need to eat a larger amount of plant protein and to optimize, you need to make very specific combinations of food. If you eat whole foods, this problem is even worse. You would have to eat a lot of plant food, and with that comes a lot of calories from starches and fats. Eating lean meats (or egg whites or whey protein) gets you all the protein with far fewer calories. All in all, too much simplification is not ideal.

[@pureabsolute4618]

Good comment - 12% protein means you have to spend 88% of the carbs / fat that you ate with it. I think I heard that animal protein is twice as available, which means even without eating 'lean' sources you will still do twice as well protein / total calorie as with plants. I suspect people in good metabolic order will have no problem with the plant ratio. But for people that have to reverse their decline the extra carbs / fat might be too much to handle.

[@georgewilson7808]

I suffered from metabolic syndrome (obesity, high cholesterol, high triglycerides, and high blood sugar). I went whole food plant based no sugar or oil and low salt and I lost 65 pounds, all my conditions greatly improved, my gums stopped bleeding, and erections and energy returned. I used to have an appetite that was never satisfied; whole foods cured it. I no longer use a sleep apnea machine. Finally, the food is cheap-Beans, lentils, sprouted flourless grain bread, rice, oats, potatoes and seasonal apples. Also, I save money by not having to buy pills or visit the Doctor. I am thankful to all the vegans who suffered attacks to reveal the truth to me.

[@JamesOsburn-ru1jm]

I was over 300 pounds and diabetic with very high BP. I went carnivore, now am 212 pounds no meds too much energy and now even work out regularly after losing all the weight. Too much energy to set still. I have seen this diet cure others of several illnesses! That was size 50 pants to a 34.

[@georgewilson7808]

@@JamesOsburn-ru1jm Colo-rectal cancer. The World Health Organization, based on over 800 studies, has classified processed meat (bacon, ham, deli sliced meats, canned meats, others) as a class 1 carcinogen like smoking cigarettes. Red meat, beef and pork, is classified as a class 2 carcinogen.

[@georgewilson7808]

@@JamesOsburn-ru1jm UK BIOBANK STUDY: Looked at 300 people following a low carbohydrate high fat (keto) diet and compared them to 1200 people on a standard diet. It concluded that the risk of having a heart attack, peripheral artery disease, and stroke was double that of those following the standard diet. Other things to note on a keto diet include: high cholesterol, constipation, and a smelly breath.

[@georgewilson7808]

@@JamesOsburn-ru1jm How are your cholesterol levels? Are they over 350? What about your LDL levels. Do you have them checked?

[@scottperry7311]

This is a great video and has a lot of useful information. But I have learned to listen to my body when it comes to protein intake. I am closing in on 60 years of age, I lift weights (Light to moderate), I run 2k five times a week, I also walk 5+k five times a week, and also do some yard work and other work that is physical. I also only eat during the day, and don't eat for 12 to 16 hours. I have found that I need to take a protein supplement, about 50 grams a day. How do I know I need to eat the extra protein, I noticed that my finger nails don't grow and my muscles ache if I don't go out of my way to eat extra protein. Plant base diets don't work for me competely, I have tried, I need to eat meat a couple of times a week and also take a protein supplement. I learned this after decades of experimentation, and this is what works for me and the way I live.

[@kalilg2242]

Good stuff, nothing beats experience. I am mid 30s and came to the same conclusions the past year or so. 1-2 fat servings of protein a week and that's it and that even may be overdoing it. I eat 90% fruit and avoid most regular/normal foods actually but now my hair that had been balding is slowly growing back.

[@veryflow1156]

Yes but most people are saying eat everyday​@@kalilg2242

[@itsBenChang]

Could also consider collagen. There are several types of collagen to get more specific amino acids for your hair, skin, nails, joints etc.

[@justinklenk]

Likewise - same here, man. That's the real _in-vivo,_ empirical evidence.

[@FuzzyBearYT]

What the professor doesn't discuss at all is the efficiency of different proteins. Beans have a rating of less than half that of meat or eggs. So 50g of lentil protein isn't the same as 50g of beef protein, REGARDLESS of the fact the amino acid distribution might be broadly the same. So in reality, vegetarians struggle to get the required protein, and look thin and older.

[@markrhodes4891]

After watching this video I watched a video with Don Layman. He was also introduced as the expert in all things protein. It's amazing how contradictory his views are in relationship to this video. How can that be?

[@robinmorgan2713]

Science is never "done". Always need more research, better measuring instruments, better questions to be answered by research.

[@hughmason7621]

Chris, I'm concerned that the study that established the RDA was done with sedentary men at the height of their ability to digest, absorb and assimilate protein and that it may not provide a safe value for older and especially more active older adults or for more active younger folks for that matter. Care to comment?

[@MamguSian]

Or women. Idk if there would be any difference between the sexes but without experimental evidence how can we tell? Still extremely interesting and helpful though, and given we're all getting way more than we need the lack of women in the study probably won't make a practical difference.

[@joinZOE]

Hey Hugh and thanks for your comment. We're recording a podcast on protein and exercise soon where we plan to dive deeper into protein requirements across different ages and activity levels. If you've got any questions ahead of the episode, please DM us on Instagram: instagram.com/zoe/?hl=en 🙏

[@hughmason7621]

@@joinZOE Excellent! Thanks so much for the reply and news of the deeper dive which I await with baited breath:)

[@ayangangopadhyay8775]

Christopher Gardner has been my all time favourite, for the fact that he explains everything so lucidly and also Jonathan and Zoe is doing amazing podcasts with the bestest minds possible ...

[@ellap8231]

Basically we’re eating way too much of everything. And it’s reflected in our waistlines, guts and health! It’s a great podcast and a wake up call. Time to cut the calories. Thank you 🙏

[@notfarfromgone1]

eat mindfully and relish the fact that you are able to. beautiful.

[@NikoHL]

Profs Don Layman, Stuart Phillips, Brad Schoenfeld and a host of other academics advise that the RDAs are sub optimal, especially as get older amd need to preserve lean mass. Too many older people die after falls. Sarcopenia is a huge problem. So I don't agree with this presentation.😢

[@lucillasallabank]

I totally agree with you. I have recently bought a book by Alan Aragon called Flexible dieting. Excellent book and in disagreement with Dr Gardner and the RDA regarding optimum protein recommendations.

[@foljs5858]

Not to mention that the title "Everything You Thought You Knew About Protein Is Wrong" doesn't inspire confidence. Yes, he is a Stanford professor. But most of "things we think we know about protein" were broadcast by similarly seemingly knowledgable professors, and stated with the same confidence. Why is his take better than what some other dietary professor (say from Standford or Yale) has written on the subject?

[@pauldavies7251]

This really is a dangerous podcast He's speaking so much nonsense

[@golaoi]

If vegans in general get plenty of protein why are their bones suboptimal in strength. Secondly, why does diabetic control improve on higher protein? Does it matter if "excess" protein is reused if weight doesn't increase and isn't this "excess" beneficial if it it falls?

[@paulb8251]

@Gearoid O'Laoi Why would their bones be suboptimal in strength?

[@DevPreston]

This was very useful. I do weight training for muscle gain, non-competing, and I am well aware how much people like me are targeted by sales which may have zero benefit above placebo.

[@blakescrossing]

This chat taught me that science is always changing (unless you're referring to the mRNA shots 🤣).

[@XpulseLoL]

For the average person, this video is helpful and the numbers Prof. Gardner puts out do make sense. HOWEVER for anyone into bodybuilding/wanting to put on muscle: studies actually do suggest that a protein intake of ~1.6g/kg is optimal for muscle growth - and distributing protein intake evenly throughout the day (3-4 meals) increases muscle protein synthesis. Of course this might not be true for everyone, some might need a bit more (experienced lifters), some might need less.

[@barbarafairbanks4578]

@XpulseLOL yep...Agree! Howevrr, those here who are salivating over Dr. Gardner's low protein numbers aren't taking into account - what's being unspoken here - these min. requirements are for the purpose of surviving, not thriving.

[@wagwanyute]

Did you watch the video? the RDA is meant to cover 97.5% of the population. That means unless you are some kind of genetic phenomenon, 0.8g/kg protein is adequate. The rigorous studies I have read on this, all suggest muscle protein synthesis plateaus before 1g/kg. I have read studies and analyses that suggest what you are saying; muscle mass increase found greater at 1.2 -1.6g/kg body weight. I have only seen results that show plateau at 1g/kg look at the graphs yourself. 1. muscle mass increase has many factors aside from protein intake, beyond 0.8g/kg the plateau is effected by many things that can't be controlled, diet, form, sleep, etc. 2. you are intaking more protein as you gain muscle, as per the ratio. you are assuming this adjustment is inadequate, thus the need for the protein that being said theres no harm in extra protein I easily consume 160g protein a day, but if you are losing weight, its wise to keep excess protein in mind

[@XpulseLoL]

@@wagwanyute Did you read my comment? 97.5% of the population probably aren't bodybuilders. I was talking exclusively about the protein intake of people who want to put on muscle. If you don't believe me, feel free to look up some studies on protein intake and muscle growth.

[@Scor-ah]

Watch the Movie Game Changers

[@xnoreq]

​@@wagwanyute Nonsense. You apparently haven't looked at "recent" (few years ago) meta-analyses. There is no plateau. There is a knee in the curve at roughly 1.5g protein/kg BW up to which there is a significant increase in muscle gains for every added bit of protein. Beyond that the slope is less steep but there are still significant increases up to and beyond even 2g protein/kg BW. Gardner is also wrong in saying that everybody easily meets those numbers. I was even below the RDA and it is not easy to get in 1.2 let alone 1.6g of protein/kg BW. Yeah, almost every piece of food contains protein but that's like saying honey contains vitamins, protein and minerals ... you only need to eat 10kg of it to meet the RDAs of the nutrients it contains. Lentils, for example, are said to be rich in protein but if you want to eat 140g of protein/day then you'd need to eat 1.6kg of it. A typical serving size however provides only 12g of protein. You said many things that influence muscle mass increase cannot be controlled, but all of the things you list can in fact be controlled. And in good studies they are controlled for or their effects mitigated through randomization. What you and Gardner say only makes sense for people that do ZERO resistance training and don't even care about maintaining their muscle mass, because then your and Gardner's numbers start to make sense as the same studies show. But WITH resistance training some studies have shown increases up to 3.5g protein/kg BW at which point most people are sick from the sheer amount of ingested protein. You also mention an adjustment as per the ratio due to muscle gain. That's nonsense. Muscle gain is incredibly slow. If you're 85kg and gain 5kg of muscle mass over a year then the RDA increases by a whopping 4g.

[@skilla2542]

So basically if you have 50g of protein that's 200 calories so is he basically saying the rest should be carbs and some fat? That's a very high carb diet.

[@adelarsen9776]

Watch a video called Fat Fiction Documentary. It's 1 hour and 42 minutes. Watch it and then consider "Human Food".

[@pauldavies7251]

It's terrible advice

[@adelarsen9776]

@@pauldavies7251 Yes. Red meat and saturated fat is human food and very healthy. I am glad you recognise and understand this.

[@stargazerbird]

How about the over 70s? I am 70, currently on a calorie deficit, lifting weights and running. All those together add on requirement for a lot more grams of protein. Muscle mass needs care when we age.

[@nonickch]

Preamble: I eat fruits/veggies, legumes and meat in prodigious amounts to hit my macros for many years now. Let's run some calculations if I tried to get my daily protein ONLY from legumes. I'm a 90kg male, on a 0.5% bg cut per week, which puts my calorie target at about 2100 kcals/day. My "definitely safe for a cut" target for protein is 90*2=180g of protein and the "eh, you're getting low" is 90*1.6= 144g. So 144-190g of protein in 2100kcal. Running the numbers with beans: 347kcal for for 21g of protein. So in order to get my top target I need to eat 180/21*347=2.974 kcal a day. This is already 800+ kcal over my target. My low target is 144/21*347=2379kcal, which is STILL over my calorie target. Did I mention 0.5%/week is considered a low number? People cut with 1% all the time. My combination of fruits/veggies/legumes on a daily basis gets my carbs/fiber in order while getting some protein in (unlike bread/pasta). But in order to get both calorie and protein targets right, I need a relatively clean source of protein. And that is for me chicken and other lean cuts of meat/fish. Low-fat greek yogurt, some eggs etc. No, getting fed protein powder is not a viable option long-term or on a cut.

[@zchannel5973]

I'm 56 years old and the most important thing I have learnt with my super fit and healthy body is that the only way I was able to get to this age and be so healthy where I don't take a single medication and i have perfect blood pressure and perfect joints and still have great muscle mass that still increases....yes all I have done to achieve this is not to listen to scientists or doctors. LOL and I'm loving it. What ever scientists and doctors give as advice... I just do the opposite and stay very healthy.

[@skoolie_life3261]

But here you are, watching this. Is that so you will know what not to do?

[@zchannel5973]

@@skoolie_life3261 Yes indeed. It wasn't worth watching actually. Cant get that time back..

[@mandyhaven4290]

Idk if I was low on protein not getting enough fat or intolerant to many foods but I was suffering tremendously. Hormone issues , insomnia, anxiety , tachycardia , thyroid issues , adrenaline issues ect . I went carnivore for 5 weeks ( mostly beef and butter) the first week everything resolved and I got the calmest feeling every time I ate beef . Back up to previous diet most my life I ate mostly plants and grains (avoided meat making complete protein with legumes and grains ) ended up with horrible gut issues , 3 years ago went low carb was eating all meats fruits and veggies no refined sugars no grains was getting much better . It was then that I noticed how swollen I was . Fast forward to covid everything took a turn for worse I sometimes thought I was gonna die I was still doing low carb going to dr and hospital they couldn’t figure out why my heart would jump to 180 in my sleep and why my thyroid numbers were only off during luteal. Next experiment of desperation carnivore omg I feel it saved my life everything disappeared within a week . I never slept so good in my life . I am now months post carnivore ( I love my veggies meat not so much ) everything is still much better. I stay a bit meat heavy . I don’t sleep as good off carnivore but better than prior to trying it My suggestion we are all different. If you are on any meds consider them a temporary bandaid . Most of us can heal with diet wether it be meats , fruits or veggies try different things but don’t give up .

[@mandyhaven4290]

There are many living a vegan life style doing quite well , there are many living carnivore life style doing quite well but we don’t all flourish on the same diet

[@mandyhaven4290]

I really didn’t lose an weight on carnivore wasnt my goal but as far as things turning into fat every things to to fat including carbs . I actually only loss weight when I eat higher fat which ends up being more calories so idk if the calorie equation is good . Fat supposedly doesn’t trigger insulin which I’m being told is fat storage hormone. I no longer avoid fat .

[@mikelord93]

You didn't post a link to the 60's studies where they measured nitrogen to figure out the neccessary ammount of amino acids. Did those people exercize during this study? What was the muscle to fat ratio of the paricipants? How long were the studies done for? What impact did the different diets have on other metrics, like blood sugar?

[@sloanmagnum5009]

Im an athlete and I have a routine weight lifting schedule. I eat a variable well rounded diet, all the food groups. I consume raw fruits and veggies and even make raw green smoothies. I dont eat a lot of red meat, i eat mostly chicken, pork, fish in terms of animal protien. One thing I knos for certain is that when I consume red meat in any given meal, I feel way more robust and stronger several hours after eating it.

[@Hyperion_Dark]

you should eat more red meat

[@sloanmagnum5009]

@@Hyperion_Dark unfortunately red meat/beef isn't affordable for a routine diet where I live.

[@MrsBotany.]

I ate mostly vegetarian in college and am diary-free for digestion. I got a field position in conservation that had me work really hard outdoor labour, post graduation. A few months in and my hair started falling out and my bruises weren't healing, I was so fatigued, etc. I thought I was gonna be diagnosed with something serious. I told my doctor that I was eating more than I did before taking that job(adding 2 cups of rice to my lunches, and 1 or two packs of cashews a day). Turns out I just needed more protein. Though rice and cashews added about 15-20g protein a day, it wasn't enough for that workload and I probably wasn't eating enough before that. If I could just eat plate full of veggies every night I would.😅 Doc said, "There is a reason for the cliche trophe of blue collar men wanting steak and potatoes every night for dinner." I think it's probably different for those who work office jobs every day and do an hour a day workout vs those who do hard physical labour all day, almost everyday.

[@MWear-x8t]

Yes I think you are right. They may have done these studies on mostly sedentary people.

[@skip741x3]

also vegetarian..I said much the same thing... you will Know when you are low in complete protein, it starts with pain in ur lower legs as the body begins to draw its lacking protein from those muscles 1st.. another test is eating a Complete protein when these leg pains begin, if you find it quickly alleviates the issue, you Are low in need to add more to ur diet.

[@tapiomakinen]

Now I'm confused. I just finished watching Peter Attia(MD) interview Don Lyman(Ph.D), who is a professor emeritus of nutrition at the University of Illinois. The overall message was quite different from this one. Just when I thought, that now I know everything I need to know about protein and nutrition, I'm told the truth is, actually, quite the opposite.

[@tomburroughes9834]

I agree. I don't see many people building lots of muscle on a vegetarian diet, although much depends on what they exactly eat.

[@BJ-ui2rc]

@@tomburroughes9834 Lol there's a whole swath of vegan bodybuilders on youtube. Type it in the search bar and see what comes up. You could say the same about omnivores except that when I look around the average person is fat, not muscular, not strong, has very little endurance, and probably has a chronic health problem attributed to diet. They're eating a lot of meat too, so it seems that the meat isn't doing them any favors and probably has to do with the TRAINING.

[@uploadsnstuff8902]

It's because your body can store "proteins" in what is called free amino acid pools, it's biology 101. Not sure why Gardner is saying the opposite, but any google scholar search on this topic will turn hundreds of papers contradicting him. He is right on many topics, but saying that the body can't store proteins is 100% wrong, since he just explained that proteins are made of amino acids, which are stored in the plasma and cellular spaces. Those pools represent about 200g of the total amino acids of a 70kg individual, and are used in many metabolic reaction and protein turnover.

[@tapiomakinen]

@@uploadsnstuff8902 Thank you! I googled 'free amino acid pool' and spent 2 hours in that rabbit hole. Since you seem to know a thing or two about nutrition, I shamlessly take the opportunity and ask you a question about fiber, which these Zoe people are big fans of. Has insoluble fiber any other digestive function than mechanical stool pushing one? I have been told, that the soluble ones help creating short chain fatty acids, which are beneficial. Thus I am experimenting with only eating soluble fibers, and my gut seems happier now than before. Am I missing something here?

[@steveself9314]

Look up Doctor Robert Morse, and the first verse of the bible for the beautiful (though still difficult) truth

[@semme01]

This Dude has obviously no idea about hypertrophy. Suggesting to take about 5 grams more protein/calories/food than what your actual daly caloric consumption is per day (!) will automatically lead to the desired body weight (several kilos more) increase over a year. Its nothing but a naive fallacy and shows the prof has no idea in the fields of bodybuilding. Studies show that taking 100 grams of protein after a hypertrophic workout session increases protein synthesis even more than just a meal with 25 gram protein. And listeing to good old Ronnie Coleman when he started to get up at night to eat to get his extra extra meal in finnally let him grow even more... Gotta eat to grow. Sorry pops.

[@barbaramartinez7871]

I've found one common thread in the KZbin influencers who are advocating large quantities of animal protein and that is most of them are heavy lifting in the gym. That's not my goal. I just want to be healthy and most studies show vegetarians, vegans and those following a Mediterranean diet seem to do the best. That's good enough for me.

[@egray139]

I have also read that the body does store excess amino acids in the intestines if you eat more protein than you need. I wish this guy would comment on more opposing studies to paint a better picture of existing research.

[@uploadsnstuff8902]

It's called the "free amino-acid pool" and it is used in the protein turnover, which is basic biology. Gardner is spreading misinformation for some unknown reason, which is saddening coming from a scientist.

[@mbsouthflorida]

The presenters missed 2 big benefits of Protein. Protein is the most satiating macronutrient (substantially more than carbs or fat) which means that when people prioritize it, they can comfortabley consume few calories. And when it is converted to energy, it actually costs a substantial amount of energy. For example, if 1 gram of protein which is supposed to have 4 calories is converted to energy, only about 3 calories will get converted, 1 calorie will burn during this process.

[@alinaa641]

Between eating grilled chicken with salad vs oat porridge with milk and walnuts, definitely porridge with walnuts will give me a sense of satiety, satisfaction and will keep me going for hours. No matter how much chicken I have, I feel it's not enough, I crave chocolates to top it up. The times I focused on protein and reducing carbs as much as possible were the most miserable times of my life, always feeling hungry. So I guess we're all very different.

[@zeynepgucbilmez8152]

Imagine eating a huge quantity of whole plant foods, most of which is totally low in calories. Plant based whole foods are so filling and low in calories, there is no comparison to high protein foods from animals. You will fill up, you will get all kinds of vitamins, minerals and polyphenols, plus high amounts of fiber, which you can't get with high protein animal foods. I can't see a comparison. A whole food vegan diet is just incredible. And very yummy to boot😋😋

[@jimn1023]

It bares repeating "we're all very different". There should be a warning label on all dietary podcasts

[@OmarTorrez]

Yes, but Fat is VERY satiating,,, but, yes, I was thinking the same thing.

[@its-movietime]

oat porridge with milk and walnuts... I'd just rather eat cement. Cereals are the worst kind of food there is, full of glyphosate, phytic acid, lectins and all kind of anti-nutrients that causes inflammation, which over time will give insulin resistance, and with the added carbs from the starch it contains it's a sure way to diabetes and feeling hungry all the time. When I gave up cereals I felt so much better and my hunger went away. Nuts have the same problem with lectins, so you have to put them in water for a day then dry slowly, and eat them more rare. I always avoid nuts because of bloating, constipation, rising my insulin and so on. Plants can be good but not eating them regularly, otherwise you don't give your body enough time to eliminate the toxins from plants (which are a lot). With a protein (and fat) diet, mostly animal, I eat less because I feel full, I don't feel hungry, I don't count calories, and I feel full of energy. Many years of vegetarian and even vegan was just worse for me. Maybe it works for others. And fiber is just garbage in your body, it's always causing more constipation. The humans stopped digesting cellulose a long long time ago, why is this garbage always recommended?

[@j24601valjean]

Professor Gardner is packed full of informational nutrition... a veritable legume of academia.

[@OdinsSage]

XD

[@jj-oo6oi]

100% agree with you dude. For years i have been consuming 1g per pound which equates to 150g to 180g per day. Now i consume around 80 to 90g per day which allows me to have more carbs and fats. Progress is even better since i have more energy from the carbs.

[@danielben-avraham1539]

Very well done presentation. The only thing I see missing is minerals. at 64, I went on a carnivore diet with grass fed beef and sardines and other deep sea fish for one reason, I wanted to remineralize my body, which means adding a wide variety of ions needed for energy utilization in the body. Ionic minerals create magnetic fields which is the reason a corn fed chicken is easy the chew and the grass fed chicken is tough. It is ion density. Pulling ions apart is like pulling magnets apart, and that is why mineral rich animal flesh is harder to chew. The result in my diet change was that my teeth rapidly began healing from the minerals and fatty vitamins which provided hormones. I also began a whole body rejuvenation. I did not attribute the changes to the protein, but rather to the minerals and the abundance of nutrient rich, healthy fats. If my body could get the minerals it needs from plants, I would have not gotten sick in the first place, because I was eating an organic plant based diet for the most part and not eating processed anything. But the fact is that the carnivore diet worked to reverse aging, which the plant based diet created. Like I said, I approached the problem as being that the deficiency was minerals and not protein and it worked for me.

[@AaronVets]

🐂💩

[@danielben-avraham1539]

@@AaronVets There is one recommendation more, that a great Latin American Dr gave. One to two cloves of fermented garlic daily. As we live we collect parasitic organisms which rob our energy. Garlic reduces the vampire freeloaders and helps us rejuvenate on many levels. Everyone who has tried it has loved the results.

[@SetTheCurve]

“Can eating more protein help with weight loss” a processor says no? Credibility lost immediately. Can it? Yes. Will it? Maybe. Eating high protein diets during caloric deficit will preserve muscle which will preserve bmr and the calories required for NEAT. It would also assist with recovery during calorie restricted exercise and shift partitioning towards fat loss rather than atrophy.

[@SetTheCurve]

To add to that; are there any proteins that animals have that plants don’t? Absolutely. Do animals have any amino acids that plants don’t? Yes. Can either of these potentially have a health benefit even when they aren’t essential? Yes.

[@larsnystrom6698]

The experiment professor Gardner talks about at the beginning is obviously made on sedentary 20 old years men. Drafted for the Vietnam war tells us that they are young men. And starving them in a closed environment certainly made them unusually sedentary. I wouldn't extrapolate that to an active 75-years man doing strength training regulary, and with some muscles.

[@fitfrog65]

Exactly. When I was cycling, we would hammer in a group for 50-75 miles. At the end of the ride I smelled like ammonia, probably because my body was feeding on muscle for energy. I'm sure most eat too much protein but it depends on the individual.

[@alexfrank5331]

34:50 Professor Gardner shared why many vegans suffer from their choice of diet. Very important to understand this. Vegan is for smart people who are good at including the right variety of food. Most people (vegan, vege, keto, carnivore, whatever) are picky eaters and they tend to prefer some favorites. Veganism only works when you eat smart and choose foods that complement each other as Gardner said. If all you eat is Beans and Toast, you're toast. Vegans have to think more to make it work. Vegans have to be smarter together and not just be cult-like and blindly-trust without careful strategy.

[@sandyfoot]

Yes. Including B12 injections, iron, zinc and omega fatty acid supplements. Eating a grass fed steak once a week is safer and easier. The nutrients are all infinitely more bio available in the form of a steak than in the supplements. What other nutrients are missing that we don’t know about? Grass fed organic beef is insurance.

[@gracemarsh9707]

Everybody's protien need is different. Personally, as I age, I have increase mine

[@rumble1925]

Exactly right ❤❤

[@limitisillusion7]

I disagree with the statement that protein can't help lose weight. Protein has the highest thermic effect of all macros. It also has the highest satiation. Sure, calorie for calorie, and thermic effect accounted for, eating protein won't help. But when you actually consider real-life eating behaviors, satiating food reduces hunger and cravings. If you eat a slab of grilled chicken breasts before you pull out the bag of Doritos, you're going to eat less Doritos than if you ate the Doritos first. Weight loss isn't just about calories in/calories out, *unless* you take discipline out the the picture entirely. Overweight and obese people trying to lose weight, by definition, don't have great dietary discipline.

[@barbh6987]

I learned something here and not stressing about my diet will help. We have so many other things to worry about which is probably why we all feel a little sick. My question here is I was told I had osteoporosis and needed more protein and of course supplements because I have been a vegetarian for 50 years. I did up my dairy intake slightly and ate fish a few times, begrudgingly and took my vitamins D and B12. I didn't do really anything else and in less than 2 years gained enough bone mass to be called osteopenia. My doctor was shocked. I guess I was too because they painted a poor picture for me to heal my bones. I wonder now if I really need more protein or was it the vitamins that help process what I would normally get is the plain and simple answer. So I don't need to add fish protein to my vegetarian diet. I guess I'll see in a year on next bone scan.

[@andrewilson8096]

Minerals... that's what you needed. That comes from living food, fruits and vegetables. If your diet has alot of pasta and bread that uses unsprouted flour or other unsprouted grains all the minerals will not get absorbed. Without fish and the constant use of those unsprouted grains you will be in deficient. Hence, why foods with enzymes and probiotics are so important; like kimchi or sauerkraut. They help in breaking down the foods to allow that absorption. The more of those grains you eat, the deficiency becomes much much greater. Fish helps with the same amino acids being mentioned in the video, the unsprouted grains and flours inhibit the minerals necessary for the processing of the amino acids. Minerals are used for processes in the body.

[@frogsplorer]

Consider vitamin K2, especially mk4. I think it carboxylates osteocalcin, or something. Anyway I believe it is important for teeth and bones

[@edgbarra]

Probably the vit d helped a lot. Most people are deficient and it's crucial to help calcium get into the bone

[@Engrave.Danger]

Every natural plant source of protein contains anti-nutrients that reduce protein absorption, such as fiber, trypsin and protease inhibitors. As we age, our ability to utilize the protein we consume diminishes and so we need more. Yes, all of the amino acids are found in plants but their ratios and bioavailability are poor, plus you'll have to consume a lot of carbohydrates and omega-6 with ALA that has a poor omega-3 conversion. If you wanna get your protein from plants, a protein supplement is a better way to go.

[@andrewilson8096]

@@Engrave.Danger I see you weren't educated on how to counter those anti nutrients in plants.

[@jays7318]

I found that, when I increased my meat protein intake significantly for months, I experienced faster growing nails, hair and muscles. So there is benefit to significantly increasing protein intake beyond the recommended daily allowance imo

[@CasperGhostingYou]

Same!

[@mdariani]

Excellent episode. I'm learning so much about nutrition and food in the last months from Zoe and other KZbin science channels. I changed my diet according to what how I've seen, read and heard in all the interviews, podcasts, articles and books. I feel so much better. My whole body changed to the positive. Life quality improved a lot. Everything I knew as a kid, teenager and young adult was wrong. It started with the myth that orange juice is great (which is not the case... it's purely sugar) and now I'm learning that we dont need a lot of protein. Now the problem for me is that the more I learn about food and nutrition the less I know what is correct and true. There are enough other scientist and professors from the best universities in the world who say something different about the amount of protein we need. In the end I guess you have to find it out for yourself. Test and learn what is best for you. Do check your blood values regularly by a doctor who is specialised in this field so that you can see the effects and nothing goes wrong.

[@JW4REnvironment]

Well said! I completely agree that mainstream media has let us all down overall. By seeking real experts like Professor Gardner, I know I am doing much, much better at getting healthful foods every day. I especially appreciate the Physician's Committee and the Exam Room, which give lots of good advice!

[@oniichan5153]

i really would suggest lokking at presentations from low carb down under, this video has 6000 dislikes to 18000 likes it seems quite untrustable at least look at an another source explaining the importans of animal amino acids

[@MarijkeWillemsen990]

This information is misleading on some important points. First saturated fat is not bad for you. This has been debunked and the Heart Association removed the negative advice concerning saturated fat. Even Ansel Keys proved otherwise, hidden research data among two inmates groups with two different diets under controlled conditions (highly unethical by the way) showed that people who ate more saturated fats lived longer! Second proteins in plants are not ‘a little less available’ but a LOT less available compared to animal food! There are hard data on this, look for the comparison charts. Perhaps you can thrive on a whole plant based diet but you have to do your homework and take supplements like B 12. Also you have to advocate that you need less protein if you endorse a plant diet because there is not a lot of available protein in plants.

[@metalmusi]

I eat a vegan diet and have gained quite a bit of muscle on it. I am at 160lbs with less than 12% body fat. My blood work is outstanding. My energy levels and athletic capacity are optimal. The soy milk I drink is supplemented with b12. People who eat meat are usually eating b12 supplemented meat, and many are still deficient. Many of the nutritional considerations that people take on vegan diets are just as valid for meat eaters. I have seen the data on bioavailability of plant protein vs animal protein. It is still is not enough to keep you from being healthy, strong, energetic, and muscular Be not afraid of plant protein folks!

[@Atheria444]

My issue (and many other women can agree) is that I don't eat enough calories to keep my weight down. I'm a very long term vegan and have been obsessed with adding protein powders to my limited calorie diet. I know that if you're dieting, some protein gets wasted and used for energy, so that you need a much higher protein intake. I've had signs of not enough protein like hair loss. If I lower my intake, my nails grow slower too.

[@Livetoeat171]

Without sacrificing any animals lives, you could start eating eggs, either in the recipes or by themselves without having to feel you were causing an animals death. None of the eggs you buy in the store are not fertilized, but then you might feel a bit better with a little bit of protein each day.

[@Atheria444]

@@Livetoeat171 Do you know that male chicks, just hours old, are ground up alive as they are "not needed". The egg industry is cruel, as are all animal industries. I don't need eggs for protein. My blood work shows my protein intake is great. I'd rather increase pea/soy protein powders, beans, nuts, seeds, etc. if needed.

[@OdinsSage]

The hair and nail thing is also a symptom of low calories (which also translates to low protein, they go hand in hand). Many people with eating disorders who calorie restrict or binge and purge also experience this. In these cases, adding things like protein powder to get those calories up isn't a terrible more. It would be better, though, to see if you can get those calories up by including calorie right foods into your day. At potatoes to things. Add nuts and seeds into your meals or eat them as snacks more frequently. If you're in a calorie deficit there is no need to fear adding high quality, whole food, calorie dense items into your meals and snack routines to boost those calories up a bit. But if you've tried all that and are still struggling, adding a scoop of protein powder into something once a day to make up the difference isn't going to hurt you.

[@Atheria444]

@@OdinsSage You have a valid point but I don't want to gain weight and eat more, so there's that. I need to supplement with protein powder. I like being a petite flower. :-)

[@trucid2]

Sad to see people like you who are deficient in essential nutrients continue with their plant only diet. If you keep going with it you will keep wasting away.

[@claes508]

Several comments in this thread rightly critique Christopher Gardner's statement in an interview: "the standard approaches to take two standard deviations above the average, and in mathematical terms, that means you've picked a number that should be adequate for 97 and a half percent of the population, and there might be a couple people in the tail that need even higher than that, but it would be so few that you're pretty safe recommending that amount." This standard recommendation is a problem for active people like me. It assumes people are sedentary, which isn't true for someone who burns an extra 1800 kcal playing Padel five days a week. My height and weight also suggest I probably need more protein than most people (199 cm, 88kg). Gardner mentions protein quality, but the interview didn't offer practical advice on getting enough high-quality protein with a higher intake goal. Reaching 140-190 grams of protein daily seems reasonable for many scientist (2.2 g/kg), but it's challenging. Focusing on high-quality protein sources and potentially consulting a dietitian seems like the best approach.

[@turntablesrockmyworld9315]

I don''t think mathematically he is incorrect, as 2 standard deviations would account for most people living normal lifestyles so it is reasonable. But you are correct in that it doesn't account for very highly active people: 1800 calories burned a week is a lot. But the intake goal you outlined is easily achieved with some basic planning. For example, I am lacto-ovo-vegetarian and eat between 130 to 170 grams of protein a day with much thinking around it. I do cardio 4 days a week and resistance exercise 3 times a week.

[@Replicant-by1eh]

The problem is everyone who says eat less protein looks like Christopher Gardner but those who actually have the results themselves ask you to eat more. 😂

[@EvolveFiRE]

I challenge anyone who is a student of knowledge, objectivity, and science to watch this video regarding the intercellular relationship between, ketones and insulin resistance by Dr. Benjamin Bikman, molecular cellular biologist and physiologist: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJuZnmBnbNGnY9ksi=wB-Bc3Gq9NZ7MB9q I’m not sure what Professor Gardner’s qualifications other than evaluating published research conducted by other scientists, but he has a strong relationship with the American Diabetes Association and American Heart Association, both of which have been provided poor information regarding metabolic health for decades. I am 44, obese, hypertensive, and have Type-2 diabetes. The standard diet he advocates has not worked nor has veganism. This, I don’t know what is his hard stance against ketones being used as fuel, primarily in the brain 🧠, but he is wrong in many of his statements. He doesn’t actually explain in great detail the mechanisms behind his claims and much of his statements are not based off of his own experiments.

[@Pikelet12]

What does that mean? Could you elaborateV

[@kenny.gabriel.2]

​​@@Pikelet12It seems to me the comment was meant more to be comical, and pejorative, but lacked eloquence to make an objective point. I think how a person looks aesthetically has more to do with the image they have in their head. Surely, eating more protein will cause gain and mass increase; however, not everyone wants to be bulky. There are lots of factors that go into a specific regimen, nutritional intake to avoid deficiencies, and overall fitness (health and wellness). So, it seems the poster is saying that those who eat less protein will look like the speakers and those who eat more, from advice of others, will naturally increase mass/weight/muscle. Results vary though. I can say that I've grown muscle mass and have not eaten less protein just ate better, ate more food versus less, and worked out more consistently on specific muscle groups. I'm the same weight but have more muscle and less fat (both subcutaneous and visceral) and this demonstrates that I didn't need to eat significantly more protein but I also don't want to be bulky (mybgoal is to be defined and svelte). Hope that helps. 😊

[@isabellegiorgis2975]

Really amazing, he is admitting ( only through having to answer direct questions) that meat is more complete and higher in protein, but still recommend beans instead. He also says we eat too much, so why not suggest less food with higher density of nutrients instead of more food with less nutrients?

[@NaturalBornWinner-]

Because he is a vegan and is trying to convince others to eat the same. Don't fall for the lies, we should be eating meat 🍖,eggs etc as it's the best quality protein and highest bioavailability, plants are for cows and sheep, and we're neither of those👍

[@kamilhalikowski9170]

Because we need more than just protein. Beans and other plant-based foods have less protein and have other nutrients we need. He explained in the video that they have more fiber, don't have saturated fats and are better for the planet. Also he explained that it's hard for people to even get to 0.7 g of protein per kg of bodyweight, so I see his point that we should eat less dense protein, to not overkill our intake.

[@ohbabycat]

he said that the amino acid distribution in meat protein is more complete than it is in plant proteins with regards to our need for 20 different amino acids. specifically in regards to grains having "less" of 1, and beans having "less" of 2, less, not "none". and there are other plants that have a nearly identical distribution to meat. all of the protein in commercial meat is derived from the plant proteins that the animals eat, mostly grains, and corn (and whatever else is added to their feed). fish is a different story. meat is not nutritionally more complete, it just takes less meat to obtain complete proteins than plants.

[@32fw34dgasdfg]

just right after he says meats also have lots of saturated fat and added antibiotics and hormones. Plants have the fiber, antioxidants, and phytonutrients while getting enough protein anyway

[@doyouknoworjustbelieve6694]

Proteins are more complex molecules. The digestive system needs time and energy to digest them. They are yummy and filling. That’s why they are far better than carbs and fat. Yes they all end up as simple molecules before the body can use them, but how and how long it takes for a food to be completely digested and utilized is what matters. Sorry but this video is full of misinformation.

[@carmengalliano415]

As a vegan I’m always asked Where do I get my protein? Even a doctor asked me that. From now on I will forward this podcast because it was absolutely amazing

[@Darlemonte]

As soon as he said animal protein wasn't better than plant protein for the human body, I checked out. One simple fact. You need to eat a variety of plants in abundance every single day to not even equal just a daily small plate of steak and eggs. Even then the human body does not process them the same, efficiency and nutrient bioavailability wise. And yes, more protein does cause your body to lose more fat. Why! Because the overwhelming majority of people arent even meeting their individual daily protein intake requirement. They're filling their bellies with crap. And it doesn't matter short term what you choose. Plant based or not, eliminating all that crap from your diet is going to have a dramatic effect on your health and overall well being for months while your body and mind are FINALLY able to reset and balance out since you're not pumping them with a bunch of nonsense. But long term, youre going to feel and see the effects of not maintaining a balanced nutritional intake of HEALTHY meats and soke veggies/fruits. You are what you eat and the land it was harvested on. You are what you eat ate. Research where your food is coming from. I personally have not bought much from grocery stores outside of ice cream and other treats for years now. Farm direct meat from a farm i trust. And i have my own vegetable garden. (And chickens & honey bee hives).

[@Leo-gt1bx]

Same

[@Jenni3p]

I would have too, but I stayed. He later states that animal protein has optimal levels of a couple amino acids. However, USA citizens eat twice the necessary protein regardless of dietary preferences. Therefore, the amount of the suboptimal amino a acids mentioned becomes quite sufficient. The end total is a full profile of amino acids for the no-meat eater.

[@ilanberci]

As soon as you said that you checked out early, i did the same and didn't finish reading your r

[@stephx9759]

What a shame he didn’t touch on the amino acid pool which is basically the continuously accessible reservoir of amino acids circulating in our blood. this would help so many young fitness people to understand they don’t have to eat a protein every 3 hours.

[@jayday545]

Anecdote: my wife made no other changes to her activity or diet except to increase her protein. She lost 10 pounds over the next month and increased her muscle mass. The question I would have is, why do people that eat carnivore and Ketovore lose so much fat if protein doesn’t contribute? I know the elimination of carbs greatly contributes to this as well.

[@dianepereira1860]

Good question. There are plenty on KZbin following a carnivore or keto diet that have lost tons of weight. Plus they say eating this way keeps them full longer and eventually they eat less.

[@albw9]

I think this podcast could be misleading. They're saying that eating more protein doesn't help with fat loss. The way it's formulated, yes it's obviously true. However in the real world, when they say eat more protein they mean WHILE keeping the same daily calorie intake, meaning that you substitute part of carbs and/or fats with proteins. That works. That's because the body burns more energy to digest proteins.

[@Marcoosianism]

The loss of fat in a "keto diet" occurs because the consumption of carbohydrate is so low, the body enters a survival mode known as ketosis whereby it starts to use fat almost exclusively for fuel. This process is not nearly as efficient as using carbohydrates for fuel which is why it's not the normal process of the body. High protein intake does in fact help somewhat, because protein provides greater satiety and thus the person will more likely stop eating sooner and eat a bit less calories that would have otherwise.

[@jayday545]

@@Marcoosianism It is interesting to call it survival mode when you are clearly getting enough calories and living great on keto. Almost like the human body is actually better without carbs. Seems sort of like the opposite. The inefficient way is eating carbs which causes insulin to constantly by high in order to process which then forces the body to then store fat. I get your point though.

[@NaeMuckle]

​​@@Marcoosianism it's not survival mode at all. The groups living in the far north that get very little carbs aren't in constant survival mode nutritionally.

[@bjornbecker5574]

Useless recommondation to eat beans for getting protein. Green beans for instance have 1,8g of protein in 100g of weight. So for 90g of Protein you would need to eat 5kg of green beans. Is that a practical recommondation?

[@AnthonyCassidy50]

There's a bit at 25:40 where he says he feels like its a big scam, but the concept of eating more protein to satiate yourself is not a scam. So although excess protein does *eventually* get turned into carbs and fat if its not used, the effect of satiety when the protein is initially consumed is very real.

[@gruber1650]

I'm trying to lose weight and tried the old slimming world red and green days, when eating meat eggs and stir fried veg I was always under 2000 calories a day, on green carb days I could eat 4000 and still be starving, I could feel the weight gain on green days , I'm going to stick to low carb from now on with green veg, the professor failed to address that you eat to satiety and it's a lot less calories when you include meat, Zoe should get Ted Naiman on.

[@J-rex980]

I have eaten nothing but meat and egg for 4 yrs. 53 my Drs freak out at how healthy I am.

[@FINANCEPORT777]

This podcast is the definition of “riddled with misinformation”

[@tomedwards1879]

Being over 50 years of age and have been eating just meat and eggs for the last 4 years, I would recommend you get an angiogram of your coronary arteries done. Atherosclerosis occurs without symptoms and can kill you without warning.

[@AndreaHall-p9d]

Wow, I am so grateful for this podcast. I have been living on a vegan diet for nearly 9 months now (apart from once every two or three weeks the odd can of fish which are still stored in my pantry ) and started worrying about getting to little protein, as I am increasing my exercises bit by bit. I am 65, but I guess it is never too late to get fitter. And especially those promoting a carnivore diet constantly talk about vegans' protein deficiencies. So I will continue to mix my grains and beans and grow more muscles that way. :))

[@shane_rm1025]

Soy and pea protein supplements are your friend, they are complete proteins and rather inexpensive. Not saying not to focus on variety, but it's a bit like an insurance policy against insufficiency.

[@kroolini3678]

you're literally lacking essential amino acids because of the lower pdcaas score.You're just following a less healthy diet.

[@kroolini3678]

like there are a lot of studies that proof that plant based proteins aren't absorbed in the same way meat is. Women who get the majority of their protein from plants (but eat the same amount" have an on average lower muscle mass because of the decrease in absorption.

[@meliora99]

@@kroolini3678 source?

[@ebh6676]

@@kroolini3678yes please cite your source. The only real possibility of absorbing less protein could be higher fiber in the foods such as beans. It would be minimal and this absorption idea is tired and frankly just bro science. If one feels they need additional muscle just eat more food as all food if real food had protein.

[@alexmirza5210]

Your bodyweight, muscle mass, age and physical activity must have influences on your personal daily amount. As well as genes, enzyme levels and gut health. A comprehensive coverage, well worth the time.

[@murmor6890]

Good points, however it must also be said that for building muscle consuming additional protein will result in a better distribution of protein synthesis over the day. If you eat 3-4 times a day it absolutely makes sense to get 20-30g of protein with each meal if you want to build muscle, this is were stuff like protein shakes or more ideally an adjusted, higher protein but balanced diet can help. Also there are some benefits for weight loss as protein keeps you fuller and is more difficult to digest, leading to some of its kcal being "spent" on digestion.

[@OdinsSage]

For active and intentional muscle growth, distributing your protein throughout the day is absolutely the best approach. But it's also important to keep in mind that even the most active and aggressive body builders and athletes can only absorb so much protein in a day. There is actually a cap your body can absorb through the day. Anything above that gets turned into fat. So it is a balance.

[@d0ubtingThom4s]

Important to note, that if you're losing weight it's 1.5 g/kg of your *desired* weight, not your current weight.

[@somegeezer4058]

Protein remains in your body for around 24 hours that's more than enough time for effective distribution.

[@TheMountainBeyondTheWoods]

You absolutely do not need protein shakes even if you want to have more protein than you actually need, you can very easily get that protein by eating some eggs or beans, and they are much healthier than some protein powder, and also, animal protein is more easily digestible than than plant protein, not more difficult, so you got that backwards.

[@Delerisk]

@@OdinsSage And what is that cap?

[@vinny6016]

Very informative. Being a vegetarian and vegan now all my life, I was told to eat more protein. As a south East Asian, our diet is all sorts of beans, rice and variety of veggies. My question is: Are lectins harmful from the beans and legume as one the prominent doctor suggests, also, are protein requirements different as you grow older? Thanks.

[@d0ubtingThom4s]

Check out Dhru Purohit's interview of Don Laymen for a very different perspective that has an opinion on protein requirements as you age.

[@vinny6016]

@@d0ubtingThom4s Thanks but couldn’t find them in video together. If possible, link please!

[@d0ubtingThom4s]

@@vinny6016 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoTHaJ6PZdeii5o&pp=ygUXZGhydSBwdXJvaGl0IGRvbiBsYXltYW4%3D

[@victoriouse]

I can answer the last question. As you age your ability to absorb and use proteins will fall slightly, what I took from the studies I read on this was that they recommended a slight increase when reaching age 40, maybe earlier but that line wasn't as clear. Then as you age increase to as much as 10-20% more when you get 70 to mitigate the bodies failing ability.

[@vinny6016]

@@victoriouse Thanks.

[@deanivan3951]

Eating more protein won't help you lose weight but will preserve muscle while losing fat!

[@DavidSmith-rz1pc]

But he said excess protein turns into carbs and fat at the end of the day. My grandson eats a ton of meat and works out daily. Plenty of muscles but tummy bulges a bit - no six pack. To lose weight eat less of everything (except salad I guess). Peace

[@clairecadoux471]

Brilliant. Love this. I need 42g protein apparently, so now I will measure what I am in fact consuming. I suspect it is more. I raised my protein intake a few years ago - I feel better....no more hypoglycemia moments.

[@TunaCanGuzzler]

yeah, don't just take things as truth because a 'expert' tells you these things. go by feel, and read the studies.