ZONE 2 Calculation UPDATE | Using the KARVONEN FORMULA

[@seriousbees]

This is helpful. This calculator told me 140 was a z2 heart rate, which confirms what my body was telling me. I have similar numbers to you and also really struggle to stay below 130. Good to know i dont need to

[@AverageRunningPT]

Glad it helped

[@NurismanTube]

The method seems counterintuitive. What I notice is that when the resting HR increases then correspondingly zone 2 HR zone also increases. Higher resting HR is typically indicative of inefficient cardio capacity as compared to lower resting HR. A well trained athlete will have a lower resting HR compared to a normal person. One of Zone 2 training principle depends on the rate of lactic acid production and its removal being the same to avoid its build up in the muscle, hence the exercise can be tolerated for longer duration. Someone who has a higher resting HR cannot be expected to tolerate a higher zone 2 HR for a long duration, it's more sensible if someone who has more efficient cardio capacity i.e. lower resting HR to train in a higher zone 2 HR. Don't you think?

[@dapodix]

If Z2 is defined as work you do with blood lactate being 2.0 mmol/l - you could expect the heart of a relatively less fit individual (whose resting HR is also higher) to be beating faster in clearing away the lactate, right? Just wondering.. If so, then the zones would be higher for less fitter individuals and lower for fitter individuals - which is the case. But to square this all with the heart rate reserve aspect - I'd expect the zones for fitter individuals to "stretch" and cover a wider range I.e. A lower lower-bound and a higher upper-bound for a comparable zone. But all this really shows are that the zones calculated off of heart rates are just rough approximations - and that if you are really care about the fine nuances, you should be using a lactate meter alongside your heart rate monitors and/or power meters to define your zones. As they are likely to vary during your season, the fitter you get, the weather outside, diet, age, motivation.. 😄

[@trrc9276]

Agree

[@alphasportstv]

At 64 the "220-" formula, which has no real basis in science and goes back over 100 years as a baseline calculator, says my max should be 156, but I know from constant fitness monitoring with a Polar H10 chest strap that it's about 182 these days (avg rest = 46), so in order to get "new" HR zone values with the Karvonen calculator that reflect my personal fitness I had to tell it that my age was...38. You can play with formulas all day long but you should instead spend more time a) intelligently getting/staying fit and b) listening to your body before c) consulting random online calculators.

[@tomipetteri4881]

There are two methods that should be bread and butter for any semiserious amateur runner, namely 1) For a bit more experienced runner measuring your max heart rate is not difficult, yes, it’s not totally accurate but the difference does not make any meaningful error to the zones 2) Do 30 minute threshold test, even Sunday runner can do it. Mehtod 2 is preferred because LT changes, and measuring it occasionally is a good habit.

[@zacsborntorunrunningadvent3441]

Hey great channel :) . Thought I'd say hi & remind Runners its better to test your max heartrate 1st- as best u can. After a 2mile/3km warmup jog, do a few 15sec strides @ say 60% 70% 80% sprint effort with a 1min walk in between. Wait a few mins at the end. Then test say 6 x 800m with 2-3min rest breaks. On the final 800m about 300m out lift it a notch, 200m out lift again and 100m out try a full pelt sprint...this will get you very close to your max h.r . Use this figure when doing the calculation. Reason being is im 40 next year yet still have a 199bpm max heartrate. If I use 181 thats 18bpm out which is useless and infact I can hold 181bpm for a whole hr (Lactate Threshold). Cheers & Happy Running all.

[@JetskiDex]

Excellent thank you, will use!

[@camillarich]

For a beginner who can't do all that yet would 220-age be accurate enough to get started building their aerobic base in the right zone?

[@zacsborntorunrunningadvent3441]

@@camillarich technically no because say a 30yr starts running and uses 220 minus 30. =190 max. They genetically might have a 175 true max. This means all their zone 1 2 and 3 (very easy, easy, and steady) would be zone3 4, 5... aka more acidic running. Do the talk test if f feels really easy try to hold that pace in the beginning. Another method is race a 3km or 5km. From that race pace add 2min/km and train there for 1st 2-3mths. Thatll make sure you build your aerobic base. Hope this helps.

[@boyongo0700]

You can use Karvonen formula using both resting HR and actual max HR. This is more accurate that utilizing your age at all which seems silly and has no scientific meaning. Max HR = 220- Age does not work. You can determine your max heart rate from previous runs or high intensity workouts.

[@Discomattisace]

Yesterday I tried the Maf Method and this put me at 121-131 HR range(zone 1). Over 10k I ended up running slower than I walk. It was ridiculous but somewhat amusing. Just watched this and this calculation puts me in the 130-140 range. I think I can learn a lot from your vids! Thanks for the great content.

[@AverageRunningPT]

Thanks for following the channel!

[@Cloppa2000]

I spent 9 months doing MAF and got absolutely nowhere! Sceptically coming back to this and really hope this is better!

[@franzkuntschnig1320]

I stick with my polar zones on my watch. My Max HR should be around 187 by a formula I found on the internet instead of 182 (I am 38). Zone 2 is around 112 and 131 , zone 3 132- 150. Using that formula I would end in zone 3 only. Learning running at lower heart rates makes you faster. I started very slow with 10:40/km. Two months later I am around 8:15/km now in zone 2. I’ll train extensive in this zone because that will make me faster than training between 138-148 which would be the number by the formula. The fast you get with a lower heart rate- the faster you’ll be at higher heart rates. But sticking in zone 2 takes a lot of time to build up your fitness.

[@illustrationmaking]

To show how bad age based methods are… I am 52. Estimated max hr on the calculator is 162. My max is measured at 191 (resting 55). The only way of measuring max hr is to do hr tests. I don’t actually understand why the age base persists when measuring is easy to do with modern tech. Anyway, thanks loads for putting this video together!

[@kartikiyer747]

My MAF HR was right up at the top end of zone 3 based on the % of max heart rate formula. With the Karvonen formula, it’s 2 beats above zone 2.

[@AverageRunningPT]

Sounds like a good number to shoot for!

[@Allride_]

Same here. The conclusion of this video and the calculation would be that for me Maffetone and Zone 2 are pretty much the same training zones 🤔 It's basically a shift by one whole zone, nominally. Guess I'll need some more research on which one to pick now that I know that this calculation method exists and that it's such a big change.

[@zacsborntorunrunningadvent3441]

Oh I forgot to add that 65-75% h.r.r for someone with a 199 true max and a 44 pulse is: 155 x 0.65-0.75 ... + 44 = 145-160. My Maf Method range is 136-146 (+5 calc) . Cheers

[@paperjourni8964]

This is the calculator for people who really do not want to run in real zone 2 I think because it would really slow them Down (walking) but I really do think that is what needs to happen. If I have my zones up to 146 that is nice to run but that is not the super duper easy run.

[@cliffcox7643]

I used this and it was a better range than MAF which said 128 beats for me.. Which is insane cause i get to 120 just putting on gear.

[@MrXrisd01]

Lmao

[@SuperNictastic]

Plugged my numbers in. Came back that my zone 2 was almost exactly the same as my MAF numbers.

[@walterargumedo1375]

Thanks for the calculator

[@bensharpe7163]

I'm so confused - i'm 42, Max Heart Rate 189, Resting Heart Rate 46. What is true Zone 2? (a) Does 113-132 sound about right? Or (b) would you expect more like 130-146? Just a rough ballpark. Lots of contrasting info out there.

[@EdwardsNH]

Interesting, but that link gave me an estimated MHR of 170, which is identical to 220 - age, for me But I often hold my heartrate in the 180s when doing HIIT. So do I just base my percentages off my known max? That would make a lot more sense

[@leong1981]

Do We need to subtract a 10 if a person with heart disease with daily medication needed?

[@winiepoo6797]

Which one is zone 2? 70-80%?

[@marc5279]

why do you play with guessing one's max heart rate when you can just look at it doing a hard high intensity intervals session? This is the thing: the more numbers you guess, the less accuracy you'll have in calculating HR zones. So, if you can objectively know your maxHR and rest heart rate (and thus heart rate reserve, which is maxHR-RHR), use both 2 to calculate HR zones and you'll probably hit a better guessing than if you were only calculating them by just using your rest heart rate and a theoreticall maxHR based on whatever this formula is doing. Know your rest heart rate (RHR), know your maxHR, and use this: RHR+(X%(maxHR-RHR)), where "X" is the percentage you want to know

[@lal3061]

How about this: go out on a jog on a few days with decent weather. If at 45 minutes you are not sweating = not zone 2. If you are sweating and can keep up for 30 more minutes barely if needed = zone 2. If you were not able to do the 45 minutes = not zone 2

[@rizalahmad4207]

Thanks for the important tips. I juat started jogging slow. And like what you say in the MAF Vs zone 2 video, I cannot control my heart rate at all. Walking to jogging my HR skip the whole zone 2 in the first week. Now with this calculator, it seems like i have more room to breath. While I’m here, can you make a video talking about the benefits of MAF or zone 2 for the average people who just want to get fit or lose weight. Does this method benefit for that purpose? Every video I watch always relate this method for marathon runner who want to increase speed.

[@AverageRunningPT]

If you are going to use this method for weight loss, my guess is that you are going to have to do a lot of volume. This is not my primary goal for using MAF so I cannot speak to that with authority. But I will see if I can find that out for you.

[@rizalahmad4207]

Thanks for your reply and thanks for wanted to help me find out. Tried to search on the internet, and couldn’t find any.

[@user-rc8eq9jq4f]

so these numbers are just for runners, i am a cyclist does that mean this method doesn't work for cyclist?

[@CarreraDesignPhoto]

Thank you for all the information. Love the calculator. Question about how you did your video 😊. What app did you use to add the window with the information ?(split screen) As you are explaining on the screen.

[@AverageRunningPT]

I use Camtasia as my video editor. It is a non-linear editing software, which just means I can layer stuff on top of other videos.

[@davidsway5136]

My zone two top end is 111 my Maf zone is 115-125 age is 63 iam also working in run/walk/run when I can

[@joannemarkov]

So the Karvonen formula took my age (42) and resting heart rate (66) and gave me 178. 220 - 42 is ... drumroll please ... 178.

[@DinoTamer23]

Thank you

[@Letitflow1-1-1-1]

Thank you. Now I don't have to walk to stay in the zone

[@rayfairclough3274]

I am 71 years old reasonably fit for my age. Max HR 169 bpm (a guess as I had a bit left at 165 bpm) Resting HR currently 65 bpm. With your calculation my reducing resting HR has reduced zone targets bpm: this can't be right can it?

[@mOkz312]

I think when your zone2 becomes lower it means it takes less effort for you to do the same exercise.

[@pabita07]

do u reckon gender would affect the results as well?

[@Kurio71]

Use HRR (Heart Rate Reserve) to calculate

[@JohnHarryShaun]

I’ve used z1-z4 so z1 is 60-70% and z2 is 70-80%. Using Hrr method is only 2 bpm out. But the main failure was I didn’t calculate MAF correctly, 12 months ago I added 5 instead of taking 5 away. This putMy MAF into zone2. I still improved, but a couple of months ago I recalculated for being over fat, removed 5bpm instead. Now MAF is zone 1, but more importantly after only 2 months, I’ve improved pace at set bpm and actually ironically lost 4cm of waist circumference!! So fat burning has increased, and now I might need to calculate MAF again just to be simply 180-age.

[@AverageRunningPT]

Don't you just love seeing the improvements come in that way?! Great work!

[@colinlancaster2196]

So you found it...

[@processmyrun6559]

Like the garden:)

[@AverageRunningPT]

👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@SantiagojoseChacon]

The zone 2 in the common way for me is literally walking, this gives me a number that I feeel confortable zone 2

[@AverageRunningPT]

Excellent!

[@jasonking373]

I used the calculator and no matter what I put in for my resting heart rate the maximum is the same. 171 for a 49 year old. I have however been above that max rate most runs when I'm pushing.

[@AverageRunningPT]

So use that higher heart rate to determine your zones. The 220-age is only for those who don't have a starting point.

[@jasonking373]

Okay thanks for clearing the up it seems simple enough. Keep the vids coming I'm finding them helpful. Many thanks. 👍👍👍

[@cbgbstew4072]

le tour cycling adventurers Use this link www.topendsports.com/fitness/karvonen-formula-calculator.htm as it allows you to manually enter your max HR, versus only using the max HR assumed based on age.

[@jasonking373]

K. Mo many thanks it worked a treat 👍👍

[@TheSingularSound]

How do you know KM is more accurate? How has your true max HR been defined and thus compared to? Is it tester bias, since the old method just seems to slow?

[@AverageRunningPT]

Max HR can be defined by doing a max HR test or use the age formula (less accurate of course).

[@peterfaldt7351]

@@AverageRunningPT my max hr throug age is 160. When jogging for an h i average at 165 bpm. Way more than my max. So i guess my max hr should be at about 180? even though im 60 y old?...

[@Yosser70]

I assume you can work off a known max HR, rather than these calculations? I’m 50, have a resting HR of 53 and a max of 179. Should I workout my zones just from my max or do I need to take my resting HR in to account? My max is taken from recent runs, is that good/accurate enough?

[@AverageRunningPT]

If you feel that you have taken your HR to its max, then it should be a good indicator. All that I have read states that HR reserve is a better method of calculation.

[@Yosser70]

@@AverageRunningPT Actually just been out and done my first zone 2 run (mostly walking!), hadn’t noticed before but my Garmin was set to HRR zones. I did 4.6 miles very slowly, 14mi pace but (I’m really unfit) but can really feel how this will work. My body isn’t as stressed as when I do C25K workouts so will be able to recover quicker, feels like training rather than beating myself up!

[@AverageRunningPT]

@@Yosser70 what I love about it is that you are doing what your body is capable of right now and allowing it to adapt over time. Taking what it is giving you rather than biting off more than it can chew. “No pain, no gain” is not the goal here.

[@Yosser70]

@@AverageRunningPT Definitely a good way of explaining it. You should put together an alternative C25K, that uses HR rather than timed splits. Progress would possibly be a little slower (maybe not though) but by the end of it, you’d actually be a lot fitter and be able to properly, rather than just training to be able to force your body to run 5k.

[@jeffreydecoster4461]

This calculator www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/health/target-heart-rate-zone-calculator.php calculates your zones from resting heart rate and max heart rate, rather than age. Hope it helps.

[@abdulmuhaimin3435]

what is 220 means?with references if possible...

[@AverageRunningPT]

220 minus age is a very common formula that people use to estimate max HR. But assigning that number to everyone of the same age is pretty unrealistic and just is not a good starting point for measuring zones.

[@franklehouillier8865]

I'm taking this to mean that you are no longer planning to try for a lower heart rate one day a week?

[@AverageRunningPT]

I will still shoot for one run per week on the lower end of zone 2 just for the sake of recovery and injury prevention. Thanks for the question.

[@michaelauskings1352]

More than one way to skin a catfish. :) Thanks for the update!

[@AverageRunningPT]

That’s how I feel about it!

[@Cloppa2000]

Why is an unfit person's Karvonen zone 2 HR higher than a fit person at the same age? Surely an unfit person should workout at a lower HR than a fit person.

[@aussiechiro]

It's still inaccurate, but more often too high compared to too low. Too low is still better than too high. Problems start when you are above the first inflection point. Do three long days under 70%. Have 2 days off then repeat under 75%. If you feel a big difference. Then you are not an outlyer. Remember as soon as you notice your breathing increasing at all, you have moved out of zone2.

[@meneerkast5838]

hello i subbed because i like your videos on low heart rate training and they are high quality to, now all you need is a decent viewerbase :) this method says my maximum heart rate is 199 while i noticed it reached 207 in an all out full effort 4.5 km run

[@AverageRunningPT]

Thank you so much! Working on building that following through making the highest quality most relevant content that I can. So again, unless you actually test it on an actual run, the 220-age will always be an estimate. So you should definitely use the 207 number as your starting point in the Karvonen formula.

[@meneerkast5838]

@@AverageRunningPT ok but what I mean is that I can't seem to be able to. Change my max heart rate in this formula, only my resting heartrate and age, I'm 21 with resting heartrate of about 70bpm It says max heart rate 199 ( I can't change this in the formula without changing age ) but when I put age=20 my max heartrate will come to 200 for example.

[@AverageRunningPT]

So you should do the actual math. Go to 3:10 of the video where it shows the formula. Plug in 207 for the max HR rather than doing 220-age. From there subtract your resting heart rate to get your HR reserve (207-70= 137). Then do the percentages and add the resting heart rate back to that number to get the parameters of the training zones. Let me know if you need any more help with that.

[@adamj2683]

Please delete the last video you made which is likely confusing tons of people with wrong info about Zone 2 calculation.

[@rosey2578]

This is a waist of time, you need to know both your max HR (mines 222 and I’m 50) and your resting heart rate before making any calculations , by these calculations my beats would be 52 beats out !

[@colinlancaster2196]

Or you could ditch something as variable as heart rate and go by physiology and become a feeling based runner. If you can talk comfortably in full sentences you are utilising fats and stimulating your body to make the aerobic adaptations you need. When you start to have to take a breath between sentences it's an indication you are switching to use more glycogen as a fuel. Not a problem for a couple of runs a week but not sustainable every day. Listen to your body not your watch. Try not to be left arm twitcher!

[@jarno_art]

Very helpful.. butg what do u think like peter attia says 70 80% but other people say 60 70% is zone 2...