Zur vs Kinnan vs Sisay vs Armix/Kraum | CEDH Gameplay

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/factor75_playingwithpowermtg and use code POGPWPOCT50 for 50% off your first box!

[@cristianprado8559]

5:15 I think you meant Ranger's effect wore off (not Deafening S. since it wasn't on the battlefield by that point) and also I would've mentioned that Necro's discard effect creates a triggered ability during clean up giving players another round of priority. c:

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

You are correct! We said the wrong thing. Good catch!

[@adammitchell8]

How come your opponents silence ability where’s off. But your ability to cast spells at flash speed doesn’t ?

[@DyPie527]

Could anyone care how exactly this works? The end of turn effects end and you still somehow have a window to cast ?

[@seanokuyama-smith4166]

@@DyPie527 so usually after the cleanup step (in which you discard to hand size and when "until end of turn" effects end) there is no round of priority, i.e. no-one can activate spells or abilities. However, necropotence has the triggered ability that, whenever you discard a card, it gets exiled. This gives players another round of priority after the "until end of turn" effect of Ranger Captain had ended, so they can cast spells and activate abilities "in response" to the necro trigger

[@DyPie527]

@@seanokuyama-smith4166 that makes plenty of sense actually. Thanks for clarifying. I won't ever forget now :p

[@averagecitizen8632]

Guess that goes to show you either Zur can’t keep up anymore or everyone still remembers what Zur could do and didn’t want to take any chances lol

[@Dk.097]

Video shows it can keep up the table just had the right interaction at the right time he was the threat from the beginning of the game

[@Dracomandriuthus]

I think the opener was a mistake, personally. T2 Zur was a play he could have gone for, he just went for the vomit hand on table route.

[@Dracomandriuthus]

T2 zur, get Necro, value necro the game until you find the route to beat the DSilence sounds like a plan to me.

[@therubyskeleton1002]

I like that youv3 started putting the players playmat behind their hand at the start, it makes it easier to find each player!

[@tylerduncanson2661]

I'd say yes in answer to the question posed in the title. Zur presented win attempt after attempt, and only lost because there was consistent answers from the table.

[@jacobhaubjergmadsen891]

...and because it got unlucky on the Consultation.

[@Omnicloud7strife]

I really think Armix did work that game. I really wanna hear Zack’s thoughts on it as a Partner, especially if Zack’s run some other Kraum + Partner decks (but also generally). I know it didn’t win the game, but it felt like a relevant threat, and took out some nasty cards while it could. Fun games. Always fun to see the different CEDH decks.

[@EthanStreblow]

Yay! Thanks guys! Gonna be honest, was waiting for more cEDH. But, I get it, these take time and you're busy. So no rush, just wanted to say I appreciate it.

[@EspeonGaming0]

Mike casting Finale for "a whole bunch" rather than a finite number is pretty funny, and it caught me off guard

[@therealax6]

This is the first time I see someone taking advantage of end of turn effects ending at the beginning of each cleanup. I always wondered if you could make use of that edge case in the rules, and it's nice to see such a use. Nice game!

[@spencerstanley4759]

I wanna let you know, I heard that Kraumbat.

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

😉

[@mczyk17]

THE LONG AWAITED RETURN!! Would've commented sooner but work has been busy.

[@arthurventreschi2465]

THANK GOD U GUYS ARE BACK ❤

[@TripsAhoy]

Glad to see cedh games again! ❤❤❤

[@lokumo13]

The Kinnan comeback…the longer the deck stays out, it’ll have more than anyone in terms of resources.

[@21526]

😢 please don't post game spoilers man. Some of us watch on mobile.

[@lokumo13]

@@21526 Lol, I watch on mobile too, but sorry for spoiling it for you mate.

[@augustogavioli3045]

Heeeey! Happy to have you guys back!!! Really! Glad Ryan is well

[@Sivarias]

A point of order. Normally phasing allows you to attack because the permanent phases back in during the untap step. Since you controlled the creature at the beginning of your upkeep, then it does not have summoning sickness, much like the wierd timing interaction with defeaning silence and the cleanup. Phasing itself does not magically grant the creature haste, and you did not controll it since it did not exist. So, unless I am missing a specific rule somewhere, Filagree Familiar should not have been able to attack, since it phased back in outside of normal phasing timing.

[@DarkEinherjar]

3:46 Saddest fish ever, after so many spells...

[@WushuTaz]

With Shimmer Zur aren't you kinda all in on Necro? I figured Drake would've drawn much more than 12 cards on his first attempt with that much untapped mana. This could've given him more counters to back his win attempt.

[@horribleville]

More counters doesn't help when you can only cast one spell through deafening silence

[@WushuTaz]

5:01 Drake had bounced the Deafening Silence

[@psyonicpanda]

Maybe I'm missing something but how can you cast spells during cleanup? I thought the last point to cast any spells is end step?

[@NetheriteSeek]

When cards are discarded during cleanup, a necropotence trigger goes on the stack. They were casting spells in response to that trigger.

[@cristianprado8559]

514.3.: Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception: 514.3a: At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger "at the beginning of the next cleanup step"). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins. since Necropotence cards hitting the graveyard is a triggered ability, the steps described above happen

[@psyonicpanda]

@@cristianprado8559 Thank you!

[@cristianprado8559]

@@psyonicpanda no problem bud c:

[@MadKingMura]

He moves to Kraumbat is such a good line- 7:28

[@jeffbt17]

Man the bending of that sea when tapping and thinking hurt me

[@isocity-info]

Mike and hus custom old border cards. Love it. Where do you assable them?

[@K1ppy]

3:17 how mike cast Grim and Bloom tender? when we have only comand tower and lotus petal?

[@TNTColonel]

Welcome back, Ryan.

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

Thanks!

[@dhantefranklin336]

Was that a force of will discarded on the necropotence end phase?!

[@w.s6124]

Esper shell with Turbo Necro wins will always be able to compete in my opinion

[@Momo_pstat4]

We’re so back

[@FFF813]

Zur is still viable, he just didn’t get the payoff he was looking for from Necropotence. Also paid way too much life to look through his deck.

[@Fogshaper]

when you say "deafening silences effect wears off", you mean ranger captain's effect, right? How does that wearing off work? it disappears in cleanup and players do get another round of prio after that?

[@thetarekk]

Nice Game ! I was wondering, since necropotence was erratad and it triggers a the end step not the clean up step, did captain-ranger of eos' ability really end and could drake cast spells afterwards ? I believe that the cards go to hand at end step and then with nothing going into the stack the cards are discarded and the ability stops, and no one can respond to anything.

[@Bafflementation]

Sounds like you're a bit confused about both Necro and the ending phase. Necropotence creates two different types of triggers. One type is the trigger that puts a card exiled with Necro's activated ability into hand at the beginning of the end step. The other triggers whenever a card is discarded in order to exile it. This second type of trigger occurs in the cleanup step if Necro's controller discards due to hand size.

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

When you discard to hand size, in cleanup, there is a part of the cleanup that checks for triggered abilities (514.3a). Those triggered abilities go onto the stack and players receive priority in response to those triggers. Drake was responding to those triggers in the cleanup step. Check it out here: blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/cr514/

[@thetarekk]

@@PlayingWithPowerMTG Oh i see i Thanks :)

[@Smurfomancer]

How did that 'getting around Deafening Silence' trick work? I get that Necropotence creates triggers in your cleanup step when you discard to hand size, which gives you the opportunity to do things after the end step when you normally can't (and then creates a second cleanup step), but Deafening Silence doesn't have the 'until end of turn' wording that wears off in the cleanup step.

[@Cspiderwebb]

I think he meant Ranger-Captain of Eos‘s sac effect. I could be wrong as I don’t think I fully understand.

[@cristianprado8559]

DS wasn't on the battlefield by the point Necro's discard trigger triggered, so it wasn't really a trick it was just the card not being on the battlefield anymore and I think what the narrator meant was Ranger's ability had worn off which happens before triggers that triggers at the clean up step can be put on the stack. so basically Ranger's ability wore off then Necro's discard trigger was put on the stack and playes received priority once again

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

We meant Ranger-Captain. Our fault. We misspoke.

[@Smurfomancer]

@@PlayingWithPowerMTG Ahhhh, Ranger captain. So the phrasing of 'this turn' is really 'until end of turn' in disguise? ('Until end of turn' effects wear off during cleanup, but I would have assumed that 'this turn' still carried until the turn passed to the next player)

[@82ndhaydini]

I'm not understanding mike giving the wishclaw to alana when drake was dead on board? Anyone got any ideas?

[@geoman3x3]

How did Alana play a ranger captain and a mana vault turn?

[@DankChallenger]

can someone please explain why ignoble hierarch can be played in the kinnan deck? since the mana symbols on the cards do not match the identity of kinnan?

[@Dylan-vs6sf]

The ignoble Heirach was from a Kinnan Activation in the Sisay deck

[@ryanaymar9124]

Wouldn’t the treasures have tapped for 6, not 4? Kinnan and Nyxbloom are both replacement effects. So you should be able to choose with applies first. Even if time stamps come into play, Kinnan entered first so it would have added 1, then tripled for a total of 6. Or am I missing something?

[@Shafted.ForLife]

It's not the treasures adding the extra mana, it's kinnan that adds the extra 1

[@thecrowsnest2872]

Can someone explain to me how silence effects fizzle during clean up? Ive always heard about flash decks utilizing it but don’t fully understand how it works

[@Dylan-vs6sf]

Part of the Cleanup step is that all effects that say "until end of turn" end. This and discarding to hand size doesn't use the stack. However if something triggers during the cleanup step everyone gets priority as those triggered abilities go on the stack. This only happens after all end of turn effects have worn off

[@seanokuyama-smith4166]

They misspoke. The silence was no longer on the battlefield at the time and they were talking about the Ranger Captain ability. All until end of turn abilities end at clean up. Usually no-one gets priority and can take advantage of that, but necropotence has a triggered ability from discarding. So when you discard to hand size in cleanup, the necro trigger goes on the stack and there is a round of priority, i.e. players can cast spells or activate abilities, after the until EOT effects wear off. Hope that made sense!

[@robbchew2260]

At 8:36 Drake forgot to take 1 damage from tapped Mana Vault

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

He skips his draw step due to Necropotence. Mana Vault damages you in your draw step. So he doesn't take any damage.

[@commanderpower99]

Why is Drake still interacting with the table after exiling their entire library?

[@luisbonilla7836]

Is there a Reason why the Zur player isnt dead @ 8:35 ? Mana Vault is tapped, should have been down to 1 life and would die to Necropotence?

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

Mana vault damages you in your draw step. Necroptence makes you skip your draw step.

[@Orissander]

Drake forgot to pay life for the tapped mana vault at 8:30

[@Flyboy245]

Activates grim monolith Sisay tries to combo in response Activates monolith again Tries to combo on top again No you 😂

[@ubberJakerz]

7:28 did you say... kraumbat?

[@claudioriquelmenunez3218]

8:37 drake dont lose 1 life with mana vault?

[@seanokuyama-smith4166]

I believe Necro makes you skip ur draw step, which is when mana vault pings you

[@markdolon7037]

lotho is not a valid target for kinnan activation... or am I missing something here?

[@jkevinAH]

lotho is halfling rogue so it works

[@Murkglow]

Is Zur still competitive? Is he Blue and Black still? Then yep. Is he still one of the best Blue/Black commanders? Probably. He is a tutor/mana cheat in the command zone. That does more to potentially win you the game than most even today. Is he still the terrifying boogieman he was back when EDH was just starting out? Nah. At 4 mana, needing to live to attack to get value, ect... He's too fragile and slow to be the absolute best anymore.

[@vincentfeng9802]

should drake of taken damage during his upkeep for mana vault being tapped?

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

Mana Vault damages you in your draw step. Drake skips his draw step due to Necropotence.

[@6969pumpking]

Whats that thumnail art?

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

Necropotence! It's from the enchanting tales anime alternate arts from Wilds of Eldraine.

[@teriserugi1198]

like how drake's first turn he just cheaty faced a talisman and sensei's top in

[@teriserugi1198]

wait, nvmnd lol. missed the helm

[@Oxygen1004]

How do you guys feel about "The Cyber-Controller"? Could it be a wincon in the command zone with enough infinite mana combos and yard hate or is it too fringe?

[@renanishikawa7696]

Amazing game!

[@BeadyAbiter]

bro I was just watching you untap grim on her activations. Now I understand when I'm doing this to people on breya, you wanna win? naw we trying to win

[@frankyg821]

The guy just dropped a helm of awakening going first?

[@aaronpopovich8278]

He moves to kraum-bat 😂😂

[@felix699]

Finally

[@Bizinho323]

Zur only works if you have lucky or money enough to garantee the continuous progress until the inevitable

[@Niniju8970]

In a proxy-friendly environment, like these pwp videos, money isn't the issue.

[@RafaelPanazzo]

Can Zur Still Compete At The CEDH Table? Yes he can, but this list is not helping at all. Helm of awakening ??? Oh whyy

[@pokemonidea8871]

Drake should have died to his mana vault

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

Mana vault damages you in your draw step. Drake skips his draw step due to necropotence.

[@pokemonidea8871]

​@@PlayingWithPowerMTGwow, those affects always seems to be at the upkeep, what a weird interaction

[@Bluestomiv]

That’s was a terrible Zur deck. Where was Thassa’s oracle?

[@TheQueerLeaf]

Oof

[@joshuasheppard2597]

Lol. Everyone just magically starts with mana vaults and lotus petals.

[@MarkWheat-l4e]

Test

[@damo9961]

With some of the junk new commanders I see being brewed - and people defending them to the death - of course Zur is still playable.

[@elijahmyers4331]

NOOOO I wanted to see Talion so bad! Zur's cool tho

[@Niniju8970]

I miss seeing the pronouns on the videos.