Zwift Race | 3.5w/kg in Cat C- Too much? Cheating?

This week i joined one of the biggest races ive ever done with over 170 ppl. I put down 3.5 w/kg in a Cat C event and still came 15th.
@fourthfrontier
You need to race with a heart race on Zwift Power- why not get the best, complete with ECG.
Heart Rate and ECG monitor: uk.fourthfront....
FFMAX - For 15% off
Find me on:
▶️ Instagram - / maxwilko
▶️ Strava - / strava
▶️ Zwift Power Profile - zwiftpower.com...

[@ptp1969]

Sandbagger !!!! 😂😂😂

[@thewattlife]

LOL I think im carrying everyones sandbags in this one

[@ljadf]

In my opinion, if you're against other riders putting in over 270w average and 4.1w/kg, you're not technically cheating. The category system is a bit funny, and all races below catA are necessarily 'fixed' if you're at the very top of your category, it stands to reason you're going to look like you're sandbagging. I'm borderline catC and regularly finish in the bottom 20%, but after winning most of my carD races, I couldn't stay there in all good conscience. In the end, you're only riding against yourself, and 'winning' is just a motivational concept. If you're cheating, you're not properly motivating yourself to be better.

[@thewattlife]

I agree. A lot of the times a race is shorter than what an FTP would be measured during. So in theory you should always be able to push a bit above the grade. Shorter races are punchy and top ppl in the grade can push the avg up if they ride hard rather than sitting in.

[@mctrials23]

Its not quite that simple. If more than one person is "cheating" that doesn't make you cheating any less cheaty. Secondly, people tend to try and stick with the pack so if you are putting out unsustainable numbers for actual Cat. C racers then you are just going to burn them out. Ask me how I know... I have an FTP of about 3.3w/kg so very slightly above what they consider Cat. C. Did my first short zwift race the other day and died after 35 minutes. During those 35 minutes I averaged 3.6w/kg and obviously plenty of spikes above that which is brutal and kills you when you're above your threshold. Yes I could have ridden my own race but fundamentally, 70% of the riders at the start of the race we're managing to put out well above the w/kg limit that the race should have had. It ruins it. Its a race. You aren't riding in isolation.

[@ZwiftInsider]

Between your new fan and moving your screen to straight ahead you'll be a mid-pack B rider, no problem. Keep up the good work.

[@thewattlife]

If I get two fans and a bigger screen can I be a front pack B-rider?!? Marginal gains

[@MrPedel]

Great to see you just go all out and enjoy the race at the end there 🎉 And a great result as well

[@thewattlife]

Thanks so much, genuinely loveed that one

[@peterjensen5001]

LOL Cat C is 2.5-3.1 W/kg . So yes. All those infront of you were also entitled winners..

[@docfink]

Too much? Cheating? If you’re holding 3.5w/kg in a C race and avoiding a large group B ride because it’s too fast, yes, it’s cheating.

[@ZwiftDude]

Hmm I wouldn't call it that myself everyone to their own, but yea he needs to go back into B and just respect the categories/riders and be realistic about it.

[@thewattlife]

@doc More people means faster races. So while i will happily do Cat b races with up to 25/30 people a big race i wouldnt be able to hold the front group. My Zwift power is linked in the description

[@thewattlife]

@escostar- Cat B im coming! Most of my races have been 3.2w/kg- literally never done 3.3 or 3.4 in a race before so im as surprised as you are annoyed with my 3.5 w/kg

[@docfink]

@@thewattlife So then you can’t hold the front group. If that’s important to you, maybe you’ll get there at some point. But if you’re always up front pushing 3.5w, you’re obviously beyond the category you’re racing in. IRL things are different, but there’s a reason why 3.5w is listed as Cat B.

[@Strift104]

Nah, not cheating, if the new enforcement system says you're Cat C then there's nothing wrong with racing in Cat C. Move up when you're ready.

[@BeeblebroxTV]

Good going dude, you lot certainly laid down a strong time challenge! Can't believe you've only just got a fan, mad man, you'll definitely find it helps with body temp in longer races with that on your front 👍

[@thewattlife]

Haha just like suffering i guess

[@BeeblebroxTV]

@thewattlife Boom, 21:55! Damn that hurt, had nothing left for a sprint - Almost 250 starters this week!!

[@thewattlife]

Lol thats crazy number- what time was your race?

[@BeeblebroxTV]

@thewattlife It was the 18:10 race, late joiners must've been even worse off than you yesterday in terms of seeing the start line from where they lined up!

[@99cya]

Yeah that was a great effort. 🎉🎉

[@gregorygout]

Hi Max, thanks for giving me the link to discover your channel. I think you should continue to race in C for a while and that with the new zftp class calculation...you are not cheating. If you want to be 100% sure do an iTT on Tempus Fugit and you will know for sure if upgraded. Otherwise since you are an endurance athlete you might always struggle at winning sprints as this is all about your 15s...but one thing you can work on to be competitive at the top C and later in B is your 1mn power, This is a key figure on zwift to follow all accelerations etc and this is what stopped you from making a top 10 in this race (don't ask me how to train for it, all I do is race😄)-cheers

[@thewattlife]

Great info and good to know. I think some gym work and then some 40/20's (Neither of which ive done much off) should make a big difference.

[@KevinMerckx]

3.5 in cat c is NOT borderline mate. Just join cat B and stop beginning the race while sipping on your powergel 😂

[@thewattlife]

ha i feel you Kevin- someone below has pointed out that the way Zwift works out categories is 95% of best 20 min effort (plus some other factors now) so this is still a Cat C effort or there abouts. Plus- i do end up 15th.

[@PunchyZwifter]

It is 95% and always has been. So the boundary is 3.5, not 3.2 anyway 😊

[@lolShoulder]

I have for the last couple of days just binged through most of your zwift race videos, kudos to you for the content! I have cycled for some years and want to start race on zwift from now on. I have tried a few and I'm considered a B rider. Do you announce when you go for a race? Cause I would love to join you on a couple and race with you!

[@thewattlife]

I try to do most Zwift Monthly events on Monday evenings. I think im going to try and find a way to announce when im racing as it would be fun to get more people involved! Maybe follow my instagram @maxwilko

[@R.T_Go_Your_Own_Way]

Hi Max. You're seeing great results from the training. Every effort like this is going to compound for " That Day", and yes "That Day" is coming with efforts like that. Is it cheating?, no - you rode in the group you were assign too, but going by zwifts numbers , 2 more efforts like than and i'll be seeing you in the B pens. Playing the top end of a cat is a bit of a game. You can push but you have to pick your spots. You got about 3.5 matches to burn, use them wisely, But don't get carried away and burn 4 matches, that will start a fire you may not be able to put out.

[@thewattlife]

Haha yeah the Cat B enforcement will be a total baptism of fire, hopefully a few more weeks being able to jump into some Cat C's but it looks like im coming up and i cant wait

[@NitroNorry]

Hi mate. I also averaged 3.5w/kg. ZP has now bumped me up to Cat B but I'm not sure on what basis. So long as you are pushing hard in races and not trying to game the system then just let the algorithms decide when you are a B.

[@thewattlife]

Thats the plan- only started cycling properly in Dec so this has been a fun journey so far

[@davidcarino6500]

I see this in my race C , i dropped out after 10 minutes. Making it way harder for C riders only 18 riders showed. I noticed on there stats some are A and B's. If it's just all C riders I can usually get in the top 10 which took me over year of hard for someone who's almost 60!

[@thewattlife]

Zwift always seems to have some problems, im trying to get back into it and still find that some races you get mixed in with riders who are a lot better then the Cat suggests.

[@GS-pk9rd]

3.5 w/kg for 21 mins is quite different to holding this for one hour. In any case it's not cheating if the zwift algorithm will eventually bump you up as you log better performances

[@thewattlife]

I’ve been paying my dues in Cat B for the last 3 months and it’s been a LOT of hard work

[@crow4868]

Great effort. It'll be interesting to see if you get bumped with repeated efforts at this level. The reward for improvement is square one in the next category. Hopefully you will grab a couple of podiums before getting booted.

[@thewattlife]

Lol, crap... i really need to try win one soon

[@AlejandroMallea]

You're in that blurry line between categories. It's good that you're embracing it by joining B races, as opposed to fighting it and trying to sandbag for as long as possible, haha. It is not cheating because as you pointed out you got a 20-minute PB, so it's not like you've been producing this power consistently before, but once you do, Zwift should be putting you in cat B moving forward. Also keep in mind that 20-minute power is not the only parameter when deciding categories, there are other numbers that are relevant. When are you doing another B race? Maybe I'll see you there. Cheers!

[@KevinMerckx]

No, he is not in any blur here. 3.5w/kg is the kind of average I see when I race in Cat B. Some actually win with such average. Let’s stop pretending and let’s start calling out sandbaggers. Truth is he knows it because you don’t happen to push 3.5w/kg one morning. Weeks or months before you push 3.3, 3.4… You got time to realise that you are cheating the category enforcement

[@thewattlife]

Alejando- thanks man. I will be riding the same event in Cat B Thurs evening so might see you soon for a ride! Theres no sandbagging here, like i said these numbers are surprising me too lol

[@thewattlife]

@kevin- sure man, but if you check my Zwift Power ive literally never put down a 3.3 or a 3.4 w/kg effort in a race. Mostly ive been doing 3.2 w/kg and not winning Cat C races. Last week and this week ive managed 2x 20 min races where ive held 3.5 w/kg and the course has been suited to my style of riding. So personally, while i do understand, this feels like a bit of a jump in power and i think youre just witnessing that short period when ive managed to bump my wattage up and will be enforced to Cat B soon

[@DontGetDroppedCycling]

You ONLY got a fan!? CRAY CRAY!

[@thewattlife]

Lol someone told me it would help!!!

[@DontGetDroppedCycling]

@@thewattlife I got two 😂 front and back!

[@racerkully]

100% the fan adds 10-20 watts off the bat!! Was a fun race! An always good racin with a few familiar names 👌🏼

[@thewattlife]

Definitely felt like it helped... Might have to get a few more by the sounds of it

[@doomguyzwifting]

Yeah I was surprised by this too. Without a fan/cooling your body will throttle it’s power output much like a computer to remain safe. (I’m talking like I know.. I’m just making stuff up)

[@percyveer2355]

over such a short course, 3.5 is reasonable, but the guys putting out 13w/kg after such a race are clearly cheating. dont know why they feel the need to race in cat c.

[@thewattlife]

I agree, theres a lot to Zwift that i love but also some stuff i kinda just dont understand when it comes to certain riders. Looking forward to the ZRL though

[@hagakuru]

Great effort - still have to work on your patience. Sitting in for another 5 seconds at the end would of benefited you a lot instead of leading out. Looks like you'll be getting into B soon.

[@thewattlife]

I really am just making all this up as i go along but its a lot of fun. I think a few more months and ill figure out the timings for my finish....

[@leehardman4183]

On the high side. I average that in B. Try saving more energy by coasting more in the group.

[@thewattlife]

Hoping i can jump in on the B's later this week- probably Thursday. See if i can survive

[@frannyyarina]

Well done...

[@thewattlife]

Thank you

[@1carusjohn32]

You will prob get bumped to B after 3 similar efforts to this... with your rate of improvement that will happen quite soon. No bad thing. You will also find there will be plenty of C's quicker than you once you get to B on certain courses, ie, 85-100kg guys pushing big watts on the flats. They can also be quick up short climbs, but you should be quicker up the big climbs and the kom/radio tower routes. Even at top end of B the C's can still give you a rough ride.

[@thewattlife]

Nice- well im riding a Cat B race tomorrow evening on the same course so i guess ill either die or get bumped up. Next week is a slightly longer course which im looking forward to seeing if i can hold some high watts for longer

[@1carusjohn32]

@@pwsouth I have the same watts as you currently have at 68kg, a spirited flat C cat race pushing 320w at the front, which I cant live with, would pretty much see me at A cat holding 280w for 20 mins . Should be points position based like the real world .

[@1carusjohn32]

@@thewattlife there is a lot of talk about ftp, which is not what you can hold for an hour. The 20 min thing is supposed to be 105% of that, but again massive assumptions. Time To exhaustion for me is a better measure. Holding that 168-170 or whatever that range is for you for longer periods is a better marker in my book. The watts will come up with it. It's as much mental as physical at that level of work. FTP is like an MOT, applicable on that particular day in those circumstances and restricted by previous load. It moves everyday.

[@gerrysecure5874]

I am not zwifting. Never did never will. I don't like VR in general (no computer games whatsoever) and the fact that people can cheat their weight makes it even less interesting. Good music or watching a biathlon or bike race while cycling is all I need. I race against my PB when I feel competitive.

[@zineelabidineghafiri4673]

Many time I found the best times on c cat rather than a and b, 😅😅😅

[@thewattlife]

Ha maybe true- more people working together but these Zwift Monthly Cat B races are vicious

[@tomek6481]

Me, I ,for me ,I’m 😂😊

[@notnixx2912]

Not cheating imo. Averaged 4.7wkg in a B race and no one was bothered.

[@mariovr8416]

Come to cat b, we will only ride at 4w/kg the whole race. 🤣

[@thewattlife]

This is exactly what im afraid of... lol

[@mariovr8416]

You will do fine on the flats in the bunch. That is just raw watts. If you go for a hilly race, that is when the w/kg will come into play.

[@gilboslicer6915]

Some pushing 3.9wkg by the end of that race.

[@gilboslicer6915]

Great video. Always nice to see myself get dropped 😅

[@henkmeijer8810]

There was also someone who did 4.1w/kg average. For me that would be 394W. I can do 335W at my best at constant pace, so that's a little too much. I only managed to do 3.2w/g and was dropped on the last climb.

[@thewattlife]

Yeah i had a look on Zwift power to see what some of the front guys were doing and saw the 4.1 w/kg. but that was a lady weighing 50kg and 5'3". This just felt like a fast one with the big group which i think is great for everyone as it means you end up working harder and improving more

[@markcomaniuk9181]

Yup...cheat... not fun for the real C's

[@thewattlife]

Lol- its a 22 min race so not exactly indicative of a 60 min FTP effort

[@Rabbitnl]

Just a suggestion, I would put the screen right in front of me. Now you’re constantly looking sideways. I don’t think that’s a good posture.

[@thewattlife]

I have a mirror and a camera in front of me... lol. But i know what you mean, i might make some small changes to my set up

[@gtftrpt1]

Not at all. Just like riders have to have 4.5/kg+ for 5 minute power in cat B to be competitive, same is true for Cat B, just at 3.5w/k…Zwift racing is just hard. The CE enforcement details actually make sense. Just a game right?!

[@repmortskcab8483]

Wkg is not everything. Very much depends on the weight of the rider. A 60 or 90 kg rider with same wkg on the flats, huge difference. Everyone think they are podium material after a few months of zwifting and if they are beaten, the guy was cheating/sandbagging. Fascinating. 😂

[@hzunasdfgbciw]

On a flat course it's more about the Watts, not the W/kg. So you might be at a disadvantage against heavier riders this time. Why do heavier riders ride in Cat C, when they can average 350+ Watts for 15 minutes? Because the disadvantage on climbs is huge. It's like riding without draft just to stay inside the draft for the descend.

[@thewattlife]

Yup and on this course- that uphill finish would be a killer to some of the heavier riders!!!!

[@robertdiez3091]

Keep up with the daily training plan over the long term that will be key in overall ride and rider improvement an weight training will help.Just be very careful racing twice it week you can fall into the trap of burning the matches is at both ends. Which is why I only race once a week max is my efforts are hard during the week Friday is recovery do race intervals blow outs for a few hrs or race a hard fast zwift but command the whole race at least when I was B I could fly up the road whenever I wanted an blow the group apart no more in A races an got the follow the right moves an started to get catogrory enforced out of Bs now. Make sure you get a few long days in as well will help with the base. Maybe we can race in the future.

[@thewattlife]

I definitely need some more long days on the bike- just with the summer in the UK had actually arrived so i can do it more frequently!! Thanks for the tips

[@rohanarora85]

great ride max, watched the whole vid,I felt u shd have conserved more energy for the end and sprinted a bit more...but it was quite an effort man... *great effort* 👍

[@thewattlife]

Yeah i def went too early, but... i feel like im not so crap at it anymore ;)

[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

Great effort hanging on until the end. I don't think you are sandbagging. I think you are at the very top of the C cat and will be bumped up to B after a couple more performance's like this. 95% of 3.5wkg @ 20mins = 3.2wkg which is how the cats are calculated, I think.

[@thewattlife]

Awesome to know that thats how its worked out. Plan is to try build up a bit more, strength work is really paying off

[@MrPedel]

@@thewattlife the stronger you get, the more important it becomes to be efficient with your watts if you want to avoid getting bumped. Kind of a challenge in itself (and one that I wish I had taken a bit more time to explore before getting bumped up myself)

[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

@@thewattlife I'm pretty sure that's how it is calculated, although they made some changes when they brought in the critical power graph data and now it also looks at more than just 95% of your 20min power, I think it looks at your 1min and 5min power too now. It used to be just the average of 95% of 20min power from your top 3 races.

[@stefmb1290]

@@MarkyMarkZwifts they look at your complete powercurve , MAP , VO2 max for cat enforcement

[@SprintTri57]

Absolutely cheating if you can hold 3.2 or higher for an hour. I believe for a 20 minute race you would basically be doing close to an FTP test. So your obviously going to be 5% higher than your FTP which is to be expected

[@thewattlife]

Ive only been on Zwift since the start of the year and racing since maybe March but i have been told that all the categories are just getting more and more 'tough'. There's more riders who are kind of cheating the system and racing in a comfortable Cat for better results. I think the ranking system is changing but i dont see them being able to do too much about it.

[@timjohn64]

Time to ride with the Bs

[@JasonLZimmerman]

i am a cat b racer (category enforced) and that was a legit tough race. good job -- be proud of those gains!!!

[@thewattlife]

Hopefully get to ride together soon then...

[@imprezaaudi]

Yes its too much. My mate was in that race, he had 3.5w/kg and was promoted to B category off the back of it. There were quite a few sandbaggers in that event. My mate is traditionally a B ,but was coming back from outdoor season after serious hip replacement. He's pleased to return to B- I think

[@thewattlife]

ah yeah, i think he messaged me, he did quite well i think and finished top 5. My 5 min power isnt quite as high as my 20 min and i dont have a history of high watts as i only joined Zwift in Dec so building up- i imagine that ill get bumped at some stage with a few more strong rides. He was definitely way stronger than me on the bike

[@imprezaaudi]

@@thewattlife Very likely you will get promoted in the next few events if you're producing 3.5 for 20 mins. Congratulations on rapid progress

[@tomboveree]

You really take energy gel for a 10 mile race... You should learn to draft more to, you put out way more w/kg then others. If you get the drafting game right you can easily follow in B I guess.

[@thewattlife]

The gel is because i train 2-3 times a day. My Watts/kg is higher because i keep falling off the back lol

[@gavinhornibrook1935]

i'm at 3.5w/kg also and have been seriously smoked in some C grade races. Oh and you went to early

[@thewattlife]

Been getting better at my sprints

[@DomestiqueKoch]

Give us cat c our own category. We cant be lower. Now we keep bein dropped by B's

[@thewattlife]

I got kicked out of the C's a while ago. It didnt take Zwift long to bump me up... i still never got on the podium or won a race though. LOL

[@psymanj73]

Great ride! You don’t need to apologise for being in C. That’s where the system says you can ride and it’s not like you sit at the back of the bunch the whole race before sprinting through to win at a 1000w and overall race of 2.8w/kg, which is much more annoying 😂 When you’re winning all these races then start apologising 😉 anyway, with these numbers, it won’t be long and you’ll be in the Bs and you can join me in not being able to sprint at the end 🤣

[@thewattlife]

Lol my sprint is terrible at the best of times!!! BUT i am getting better.... Same time next week

[@TBBCycling]

I'm in a similar position - it's tough to figure out fair categories for these shorter races (are the category watt ranges based on ftp averages, or averages for what you can put out for the 20-30 minute race?). I consider myself solidly Cat C and did Stage 3 a few days ago and averaged 3.5 - finished 30th-ish. I figure if I'm not winning often I'm probably in the right place! Nice race!

[@thewattlife]

I never even got close to winning a Cat C race before i was bumped up. I just did a few FTP tests and before i know it im locked out of Cat C...

[@timurpapba520]

That’s because people cheat they keep there effort down, and if they have a sprint, they win…. These are people that have no balls and should be ignored….dont be that guy, you’ll only get better if you race people stronger than you.. but I’m cat D so what the f*ck do I know 🫣

[@a_diverge]

Prime Time is the only time to race on Mondays. Great racing with you. Messed up on lap 1 and needed to catch up. Of coirse then had nothing left for the end. Already signed up for next Monday.

[@thewattlife]

Haha, well now i know!!! Def wont be missing a prime time race again. Cant wait for week three

[@jpait]

PUSH THE DRAFT BUTTON! 😅

[@thewattlife]

I think i need to be more patient and relax in the group more, but wheres the fun in that

[@Daniel-iz7kc]

just do a 5m 4.3w power. youll upgrade

[@thewattlife]

my 5 min at the mo is 4.08 so i guess if i can do a harder effort then ill be enforced into the B's... but i dont think i can

[@timurpapba520]

Yes its cheating