ZWO's New SeeStar S30 Mini Smart Telescope: Challenging DWARFLAB ?

[@Astrolavista]

I'll add more information as I find out. I've heard this was in production before the Dwarf 3 was announced which suggests they might have been targeting the Dwarf 2. It also looks like a mini Vaonis Vespera, there is a new picture here: www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/zwo-seestar-s30-all-in-one-smart-apo-telescope-tripod/ref/astrolavista/

[@dtyra]

If they do as you assume, to beat the Dwart 3 on price, they certainly won't beat the Dwarf 3 on capability, with its STARVIS 2 sensor and built in equatorial mode that supports up to 60 seconds exposures.

[@coldeb8911]

Exactly, D3 users ( and probably S50 users) will always prefer to pay a few quid more for good quality results, rather than pay less and get a drop in standard.

[@Astrolavista]

@@coldeb8911 I've noticed in the comment section that some people seem to be looking at this from their own personal perspective i.e "I already own this, why would I want that" rather than placing themselves in the shoes of someone who doesn't yet own a smart telescope. If ZWO decide to do what they did when they launched the S50 and undercut the Vaonis Vespera, they will take a chunk of the market away from DwarfLab for those that simply want to pay less than the D3. If they place a better sensor in the s30 such as the IMX678 then it will likely cost as much as their existing s50 which to me doesn't make sense if you're trying to build up product tiers. I believe ZWO will sacrifice a bit of performance to make it as affordable as possible, it worked that way when they launched the S50.

[@Astrolavista]

@dtyra The only way I can get this to make sense is if they are deliberately going after Dwarf sales by undercutting them. Regardless whether its as good, people new to the hobby tend to want to spend as little as possible when trying to determine if a hobby is for them or not.

[@coldeb8911]

Yep, that makes sense, I personally don’t have a Dwarf 3, but I do have one on order, this will be my first venture into Astrophotography, I don’t think I will regret waiting for the s30, mostly for the reasons you state.

[@millenialfalcon8243]

I was hoping for a 50mm or 60mm with a 585 sensor for $600-$700, or less.

[@coldeb8911]

Yep, That would have been a more realistic option if it wanted to snatch some of the DWARF 3 market.

[@millenialfalcon8243]

@@coldeb8911 And it would have been nearly identical to the Vespera 2 at less than half the price

[@skye7690]

Exactly we need an S60 or S70 not an S30 Seestar.

[@Chiclets1]

I don't want a mini. I want a biggie, Seestar S80.

[@Tony-Elliott]

Lots of speculation across social media but think we just have to wait and see nice video Chris

[@Upuauta]

For me this "thingy" is quite a disappointment. Had wished for a S80 or S100.

[@Lorix_music]

Idem😢

[@actudoran]

@@Upuauta two things: bigger one would be interesting modularity would be great 😃 by that I mean capability to switch either the scope or the camera at the price of removing the built in filter changer.

[@PsychologyAcademia]

This is rubbish. I wanted an improved version. Thats it im finished with this cheap company

[@sylviedc889]

I don't regret having bought the S50 and dwarf3. I agree I would prefer more planetary performances toward a S80. I also would like to keep it compact and light.

[@TravelingStacker]

@@PsychologyAcademia This cheap company leads the astrography world. More of their equipment is used than any others.

[@ReeferReas]

Was waiting for bigger one, damn! Will go with dwarf 3

[@renato892-j4i]

Astrolavista I think that you were right with your predictions. See in the Seestar app, in the community tab, the pictures of the S30 added today! The Andromeda galaxy fits the same of what you shown.

[@Astrolavista]

Phew!

[@mrtransistor6173]

I'm for a smaller telescope actually. Having a second camera would be useful. I own both the seestar s50 and dwarf 2 (planning to upgrade to the dwarf 3). One thing I know for certain the optics will be superb.

[@UrbanStarman]

I've Just ordered Dwarf 3 I already own a Vespera 2 but when do you draw the line. Do you change your scope every few years like a phone.

[@efx245precor3]

It’s not called “seestars” to start with. And we need a bigger one not a smaller one.

[@Astrolavista]

I can change plural to singular. Nothing we can do about ZWO's business decisions other than voice our opinions. Maybe they will read this comment section one day?

[@bamsemh1]

@@efx245precor3 the channel is trash, that's why

[@tomedward8652]

No one likes a grammar nazi.

[@nancyschwartz7692]

I would be a complete beginner. So far have been researching the SeestarS50 and the Dwarf3. I really would like to have what looks like automatic setup and more user friendly app of the SeestarS50 but the field of view with the Dwarf3. I'm concerned about the learning curve and feeling frustrated with the learning curve for having more technical decisions to make with taking pictures in the Dwarf3 app and even finding things to look at. Sounds like the SeestarS50 may have a slightly wider field of view but still not as good as the Dwarf3? I'm so torn.

[@telwood15]

If anything a larger app objective on the S50 at the present price of the S50 would certainly boost sales.

[@Astrolavista]

The only way I can get this to make sense is if they are deliberately going after Dwarf sales by undercutting them. Regardless whether its as good, people new to the hobby tend to want to spend as little as possible when trying to determine if a hobby is for them or not.

[@HoratioChinn]

Presumably it would also support mounting in an EQ mode like the Dwarf

[@Astrolavista]

I think it would. You can place the S50 on an EQ wedge for EQ imaging.

[@briwaxman]

thank you

[@dumpydalekobservatory]

I guess we shall wait & see when its released the worlds gone smart telescope mad lol, if I were doing outreach I'd definitely think about having one although people to like to look in an eyepiece to so a regular scope would still be used at events.

[@chrisg9602]

Any new seestars besides the S30 coming out? My friend told me .

[@Astrolavista]

Hi Chris, there was a rumour of a Seestar s50 Pro, so I'm wondering if that will be next.

[@ronm6585]

Thanks.

[@skye7690]

676 would be a good sensor to choose.

[@Astrolavista]

More expensive sensors such as the ASI678 & 676 crossed my mind. However, I'm thinking those would bring the price up to where the s50 is already at?

[@skye7690]

@@Astrolavista Those are two good choices but not that expensive.

[@the5thmusketeer215]

Thanks for the info. Nicely reasoned speculation about the possible specs. Now, I guess we’ll have to wait & see what ZWO has actually gone with. As for myself, I’ve recently been tempted to purchase the S50 or the Dwarf 3, but was waiting to see whether ZWO were going to release a SUPERIOR model to the S50. 🤔 So if they really have gone for a 30mm BUDGET version - with a secondary wide angle lens - simply in order to try to entice a few potential customers away from Dwarf Labs, then I’ll be disappointed (as will many other folk, judging by the comments here & elsewhere…). 😕

[@Astrolavista]

I think it would be nice if ZWO left Dwarflab alone with their mini smart telescope dual lens niche, however, their business model seems to be to go after the whole smart telescope market. I guess this is where the phrase 'dog eat dog' comes from with business.

[@StarlancerAstro]

Yeah, I don't get it everyone wanted a larger one, and this shows up just to challenge Dwarf. If this doesn't have an EQ mode (Or rotator) it will not beat Dwarf (I'm thinking of getting one now because of EQ mode)

[@actudoran]

nice! plus one for the portability! how about capability?

[@coldeb8911]

Well, as they say, “You buy cheap, you buy Twice”… I think anyone who buys an s30 would soon realise that if they had spent just a bit more they could have had a more capable D3 or S50, and will end up selling the s30 and getting what they should have bought in the first place, a Dwarf 3 (or an s50).

[@actudoran]

@@coldeb8911 seems right 👍 I would love to automate something like the sky watcher Virtuoso GTi as it would work wonders with the newt 150/650 and a small camera and also work with a lens for wider stuff. the only problem I found is the lack of support for my Canon R7 in sharpcap ... I am putting my head right now trying to make it work. Sharpcap is the only way to go when using altaz mounts.

[@Astrolavista]

@@coldeb8911 I think that's easier to say in hindsight once you know a hobby is for you. It seems to be human nature to pay a modest amount to test the water with hobbies, not just astronomy. Otherwise, from my point of view (a Dwarf II owner) both the s30 and Dwarf 3 would be a considerable upgrade. Hard to imagine people being disappointed with how the tech has progressed for the cost. A few years back you would need to spend 3k to get anything close to as good as the £500 smart scopes of today.

[@Vikingssongs]

dwarf 3

[@WoldsWhite]

ZWO are missing a trick with design. For me Dwarf 3 wins because of its EQ mode and the design of it makes it physically easier to mount on a tripod in this mode. The S50 and S30 have obviously never taken this into account as it makes the tripod unstable with the weight of it leaning over, and the weight strain on the screw mount.

[@RyanM-ke2gu]

oh boy... between my S50 and my 12"dob, I don't NEED another scope. But...

[@RR-zq3mk]

I found it hilarious all the “super seestar” (only one brand matters) fanboys almost had a total meltdown once they found out the new one will be smaller.

[@sjpp71]

They love their Seestar to bits, no one can say anything wrong about it, or else they lose it!

[@Astrolavista]

There seems to be an almost tribal mentality with smart telescopes. I wonder if the FB groups for each brand foster this? Personally I would want one of each

[@otterformosa2968]

Is it better than S50???

[@Astrolavista]

Better sensor (very likely), smaller optics (100% confirmed. Additional features other than AI noise reduction are yet to be confirmed. It's likely to be a slightly more affordable version of the s50 aimed for those new to the hobby or anyone needing an ultra portable smart telescope. Not a popular choice judging by the comment section. Existing owners want a large version of the s50.

[@b.6220]

I'm sure there will be a second product announcement soon, above the S50. ZWO has explicitly mentioned new “products” in the Seestar range.

[@MaricopaJeff]

Why?

[@slashchat]

cheap zwo seestar s50 nano whould be a very cool thing, my budget is not much for this king of gadgets and when it performs like s50 why not?

[@tompage8674]

You need to turn off chrome notifications

[@EdwardAmarante]

The Dwarf III is a very capable scope, as I'm sure the SeeStar S30 will be too. I don't think most SeeStar S50 owner want a smaller scope. Following the forums it seems most want a larger scope, a better chip, and equatorial mode. For me the SeeStar S30 is a letdown. Goodbye ZWO, hello UniStellar.

[@Astrolavista]

I think it's probably aimed at people new to the hobby.

[@davidwebb4451]

Would the smaller size and presumably weight make it easier to support equatorial mode ?

[@Astrolavista]

@@davidwebb4451 I imagine so, yes. At the moment you need to place the s50 on an equatorial wedge due to the weight. The s30 looks like it weighs similar to the Dwarf which doesn't need a wedge for EQ mode.

[@Amradar123]

Great for birdwatching 😊

[@coldeb8911]

I can’t see how this new , smaller SeeStar , is somehow going to be a serious challenger to the Dwarf 3, they already have a challenger, its the S50. Their S30 is hardly going to make a dent in the D3 market, do they really think that making the SeeStar smaller and cheaper people are going to ditch the Dwarfs for one. Astrophotographers have always put the quality of their results first, and then price, if they can get both on say around or just under £500.00, then they’ll still go for the D3 over this s30 anytime. ZWO would have been better just making a few tweaks to the S50, like Mosaic mode and EQ mode if it wanted to take on the D3… but an S30 ??? Nah…forget it !

[@Astrolavista]

My thinking is; they are going after non pre existing astrophotographers. People new to the game who want to pay as little as possible (because it's hard to judge if a hobby is for you until you've tried it). If they are doing as I think, this would take a chunk of the market from Dwarflab, just like they took a big chunk of the market away from Vaonis when they launched the s50 for a lot less than the Vespera.

[@davidwebb4451]

​​​​​@@AstrolavistaIt would depend how much cheaper - if it's a few tens of pounds/dollars then any newbie comparing a few reviews would go for the Dwarf 3 or possibly the S50 (assuming the speculation about the S30 here is correct). To steal a reasonable number of newbies from Dwarflab you would probably have to drop the price substantially to say $300-$350 or maybe even less.

[@Astrolavista]

@@davidwebb4451 I agree it needs to be noticeably cheaper, or a bit less with some other unique feature we are yet to learn about. My guess is it will have specs like a mini s50 i.e 30/150mm triplet, Sony IMX662mc/internal filter wheel with IR Cut and Dual Band, Solar filter, dew heater. Then add IA noise control, longer exposure modes and of course the second lens and possibly sensor for milky way shots, landscapes. The D3 is £489, and the s50 is £539, so I think they would need to do it at £389-399 max to have a chance. I'm just wondering if that's possible though?

[@mercury7]

@@Astrolavista I think I agree.. to really justify this entry they really would need to get as close to 300 as possible…. Even if inferior, if it works half decent then there is a big market to be had…. You can never underestimate budgets for a products success…… having said that, I wish they had concentrated on the 750-1k price point

[@hmuphilly9129]

Looks sad

[@matthewmansfield3817]

I wonder if they have announced this hoping that people will cancel their dwarf 3 order. I'm not going to even if I do have to wait a couple more months.

[@PsychologyAcademia]

This is rubbish. I wanted an improved version. Thats it im finished with this cheap company. The Dwarf 3 trounces this in every way for a wider field of you and image quality. Saving a few quid pfff. What a Temu.

[@Astrolavista]

Vaonis Vespera, Celestron Origins, Unistellar - plenty of higher end Smart scopes to aim for. I mean I could be completely wrong about the sensor, I guess we'll see.

[@PsychologyAcademia]

@@Astrolavistai can see why hes done it. But the bar is very low