2008 Lexus IS F vs 2022 Lexus IS500 F Sport - Head to Head Review!

[@sunnyvalentino]

ISF vs IS500F, wow. Dude, you are putting out the most driver focused comparisons and content at the best cadence right now. There's nothing like waking up (west coast) and starting the day off to this stuff. The relevancy of the cars and the comparison picks is just different league. So it your nuanced take on inputs, handling and communication. No fancy edits, gimmicks, scripts etc. I've been a long time performance car guy and owned and rented a ton of good stuff, autocrossed, but cant drive em all. That's when you come in!

[@joeracer302]

There are only a few channels on KZbin that I trust their opinion and insight to how a car drives, and Zygrene is at the top of the list for all the reasons you stated. He has extensive experience on track, has owned a lot of great cars, and recognizes a lot of nuance without unnecessary hype. The vast majority of people on YT reviewing cars are enthusiasts and love cars but really do not have the skills or experience to provide proper insight into handling dynamics. I’m glad he’s still making videos and sharing with the rest of us, I realize it probably doesn’t make him a lot of $ and takes a lot of effort to accomplish.

[@sunnyvalentino]

@JoMaHa agreed. You know, Im pretty sure I used to watch his videos over a decade ago but dunno what happened. Rediscovered him last year.

[@Zygrene]

Thank you!

[@urbly2638]

This comment hit the nail on the head. Zygrene really knows what we want.

[@greebuh]

This has already been done months ago and just like that last comparison, this one didn't race the two cars.

[@nodrogkam]

Amazing how little has changed in the character of the car over 15+ years later. Not a bad thing for anyone wanting to own a new car but have that ISF-lite experience. The biggest two things I noticed between my factory stock IS500 and Anthony's ISF - on a slower speed city drive - was the brake pedal travel and throttle mapping. The ISF having short brake pedal travel and good modulation and the IS500 having a more traditional Toyota/Lexus long-pedal travel and needing to push hard if you want to really stop. With both cars in their Normal modes, the throttle mapping on the ISF felt linear versus the IS500 was mostly dead for 70% of the pedal travel, then all the beans appear suddenly just before and after the kick-down. You had a much better grip experience with Leonard's tire change. The custom Bridgestone S001L tires tested by TireRack and other companies, have shown to have a narrower tread width and poorer grip in all conditions compared to the standard S001 tire. I suspect this custom tire was to give Lexus a higher MPG rating. It's also telling when the same exact tire and sizes are used on the lighter and less powerful IS variants. The down side to the body of the IS500 is you cannot easily fit wide tires up front like you can on the ISF; ultimately the IS500 is mostly a regular IS. Thanks for your review!

[@F-Lex]

Cool to see these two compared. Regarding the steering feel on the isf: Lexus revised the power steering ecu two times during its life cycle. So you can plug and play upgrade your 08-09 ecu with the freshest version from the last 13-14 model years. I did this to my F, and it really improves the steering feel and feedback. During harder turns it weights up the steering much more than the old ecu. Oh and its also at almost 140k miles and has been reliable as a tank, despite a lot of tracktime and daily drives, great car 👍

[@jiurriza]

Can you share instructions on how to do this? I have a '12, not sure if they made any updates for '13 or '14s, but I'm interested in learning more about the process

[@F-Lex]

@@jiurriza Sure, There were 3 versions of this ecu: 2008-2010: 89650-53040 2011-2012: 89650-53041 2013-2014: 89650-53042 are the part numbers for the years. The ecu itsels is placed directly under the battery. If you get a new one, it needs to be calibrated using Toyota Techstream. There is a video about the whole process on youtube, the dude had a 2012 model too if i remember correctly. You can also just give it to a dealer too of course.

[@scientificenigma]

The transmission is actually pretty damn good because it’s a nice smooth daily slush box. It only has fast shifts if your basically full throttle when you let off and shift it will be slow as the converter is not locked up.

[@rook3364]

It’s still slow tho the older ISF is better then the new IS500 because gearing is more aggressive u might as well get the old ISF tbh the IS500 got walked by a Kia stinger GT

[@ARentz07]

@@rook3364 The IS 500 has a 3.13 rear diff compared to the IS F's 2.93. So the 500 has more aggressive gearing.

[@rook3364]

@@ARentz07 not true I driven both cars the ISF is more aggressive how are u Going to tell me ISF is a true F car, GSF, RCF, ISF are true F cars the is500 is a disappointment when I went to go test drive it, I own a ISF

[@rook3364]

@@ARentz07 rear diff is for take off this is how I know you don’t even know about cars, I driven both of them before Lexus even said the IS500 isn’t a true F car u can even go look it up, Sam even said the IS500 is a good car but it’s a disappointment car it isn’t much difference from the IS350 there was a video showing the new IS350 and IS500 racing the IS350 AWD smoked the is500 until 100 mph, the IS500 is barley quicker then the new IS350 just put a tune on it the IS350 will do 0-60 in 4.0 seconds with AWD easily thanks to D3 performance tune for my 2022 is350.

[@rook3364]

@@ARentz07 judging by your post u are a kid I see u every where on Lexus videos

[@blu_is500]

What an amazingly thorough and thoughtful review! I didn’t get the chance to drive the IS F, but I owned a 2006 IS 350 for 8 years and compared to my 2016 IS 350 FSport and 2022 IS 500 Premium, the throttle response in ECT PWR mode was SUPER touchy! It’s definitely not linear like my 3rd Gen IS models. I think you characterized the IS 500 beautifully, it’s not meant to be a track weapon, it’s just a fun sleeper with the perfect balance of a Jekyll & Hyde personality. Well done. 👏🏽👏🏽

[@ChristianC-gy1ym]

Am I alone in saying, I would HONESTLY rather receive a clean low mileage ISF over the new is500? I must be getting old 😂

[@joseencinas-johnston6848]

you arent alone, i paid 42k for an 11' isf last year lol but hey, it came with a 5 year full warranty

[@SkywalkerOGK]

No you’re not. I totally agree. I wouldn’t trade mine in even if was a straight trade with no money on top. The ISF just has a that raw feel and power that will never be matched with the newer gens.

[@bigjdm5460]

@@joseencinas-johnston6848that hurts to hear. I was salesman at Nissan back in 2016 and we had an 2011 IS-F with 30k ish miles and it was like 36-38k. This market is a mess now.

[@ARentz07]

I appreciate the updated interior of the IS 500. I mean, it has Android Auto and a larger screen, along with 360-degree camera and a rear sunshade, among other things, if you get the Premium trim. If you plan on driving it often or on longer journeys, it is probably worth thinking about. It depends on what you want to use it for.

[@Highlander1432]

The IS500 is really an upgrade ISF just has nostalgia

[@joeracer302]

People often neglect to maintain their dampers. A lot of aftermarket dampers require rebuilds or replacement much more often than OEM components. Depending on the brand, some coil overs require service (rebuild) as often as 18k miles. For comparison, OEM stuff typically lasts 60k-100k miles, but still lots of people will neglect to replace those when needed. With 178k miles, depending on how many of those are on the HKS coil overs they could very well need service. That would explain a lot of the body control issues.

[@beexiong2995]

Stock dampeners are weak on this car. I had an ISF and remembered how rough it rides. I bottom out a lot since there is not a lot in the travel for the shocks and struts before they hit the bump stops.

[@Downloadfreak]

Owner of the ISF in this video. The coilovers have 17k miles on them currently.

[@joeracer302]

@@Downloadfreak thanks for touching in, I think looking at my comment I should clarify, I hope you didn’t take it as an attack on you personally, I made some assumptions and certainly don’t mean to offend. I was also just trying to make people in general to be more aware of the shorter service intervals recommended for a lot of aftermarket suspension components, although I’m not familiar with HKS specifically. Your car is a testament to the longevity of the Lexus platform and the suitability to a variety of tasks, tracking or daily driving to 200k+ miles. As a long time Toyota owner, I’m a bit of a fanboy of their V8’s and their lack of oil leaks compared to the Fords I’ve also owned lol. Thanks for sharing your car with us!

[@Downloadfreak]

@@joeracer302 All good, just wanted to make sure the facts were out there. The rain we've been getting has definitely taken a toll on the roads in our area. The coilovers were left at my soft street setting of 10 clicks out of 30 for this test. Wish they made the Hipermax R for this car, the S is definitely designed for comfort as a priority.

[@tigerrider6711]

@@Downloadfreak have you checked your bushings too? those are a documented issue I recall reading about in the forums.

[@ryanlu.500]

Own IS500 myself. The review is spot on. I am happy that you changed your mind after your initial review. Few things I have noted so far after 1500KM: 1. Trans. It takes at least 30km or 20 miles to warm up. Once it is warmed up, it is very fast using the paddles. However, the trans is not smooth when you are in lower rpm or in lower speed, it gives you a kick when you upshift and lurch forward when you downshift. You almost feel like you broke the car. 2. Throttle response. In the normal mode it is dead dead. It is even slower than my traded in 350. You don't feel like you are not driving a performance car at all. So once the car warms up I always put it in sport plus. Sport and Sport plus fix the problem. 3. Brakes. For my first 300KM of brake breaking in period, I thought the pads was clamping the ice. I heard many reviewer saying the car had soft paddle, but I did not expect the brake was this soft. After the brake is properly broken in, it got better, but not confident enough. My car does not have BBS so ISF, RCF or GSF's front calipers won't fit. So I might just upgrading the pads. 4. Engine. Engine is amazing, it induction sound sounds so good after 4500rpm. Unlike many turbo cars going PaPaPa, I like singing motors better. Compared to 350, it fixed 350's lack of low end torque issues. Passing on the highway won't require you to double downshift now. 5. Suspension: The car is extremely confortable on the daily drive basis. In normal mode, the car is very soft. When you put in to sport plus, I would say it's 30% more stiff but it is well controlled. I would say it is perfect for daily cruising fast.

[@kaetos03]

Fixed the 350s lack of low end torque... ? its heavy and weak... compare to any 2UR platform. Is not fixing... it was just not capable... Ever! if you compare 350s of older gen vs. new gen, then yeah valid comment. But the 350 and any 2UR platform, they dont even belong in the same galaxy.

[@ARentz07]

@@kaetos03 I owned a 2021 IS 350 for a little over 18 months and recently traded it in on a 2023 IS 500. Honestly, sometimes I drive the IS 500 and feel spoiled. The 350 was a great car. It's easy to be a snob about how fast it is, but for most people, it's more than quick enough. Having said that, if money is not an issue the IS 500 is totally worth it over the 350. I am addicted to driving mine, lol. I keep making excuses to take it out. Even in everyday driving it is enjoyable.

[@ryanlu.500]

@@kaetos03ofc they are not. I think you’re overreacting. I am just mentioning the lack of low end compared to V6 IS’s turbo competitors. V8 fixed that issue. You don’t have to rev the hell outta that V6 to do some high speed passing anymore.

[@ryanlu.500]

@@ARentz07bsolutely agree. 350 is a great car but lack some characters. 500 is on another level.

[@kaetos03]

@@ryanlu.500 But correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression, there is no V6 turbo, only an IS200T, which is the only turbocharged IS.

[@st4xor]

Missing that shift and being able to hear the car bounce off the rev limiter is probably the single greatest thing that sets this review apart from all others. That was actually genuinely extremely exciting. Love manual cars and will always own at least one but given family circumstances it would be extremely helpful to have another automatic vehicle in the fleet. If the IS500 ever sells for close to MSRP, I think this could be an extremely strong daily contender. I want a V8 someday, but not sure I need one on track anytime soon--really enjoy flogging the lighter cars out there. So looking for something to daily that is automatic but have it still feel "special" and put that smile on my face.... I think this could be it.... Thanks for missing that shift 😁

[@nobonesar]

Got my 2023 IS 500 under MSRP. They're starting to sit in the lots longer

[@yousef.al-assaf]

​@@nobonesar In Canada?

[@nobonesar]

@@yousef.al-assaf USA. Did have to drive 4 hours to get it though

[@yousef.al-assaf]

@@nobonesar In Canada they get sold for MSRP by law, but the waiting times are crazy. Many are canceling their orders a year or two after placing them (especially after the new carbon taxes bullshit). I walked in wanting to place an order and found out that someone just canceled his order with the exact specs that I had in mind, and it had just arrived to the dealership lol. It was an easy steal. Enjoy your car!

[@nobonesar]

@@yousef.al-assaf That's very fortunate! Most dealerships selling at MSRP but some charge markup depending on the State (California and Florida) but you can still talk them down. IS 500s here sitting on the lot 2+ weeks as global inventory is picking up again

[@demetriusford]

My daily, I'm so glad you reviewed this! It's been a project tweaking it with quality mods and parts, but I think over time this will improve.

[@jiurriza]

If you are going to drive fast in manual mode you HAVE to have it in sport mode. With sport off the trans will be slow to shift.

[@Zygrene]

I realized this after filming. Really unfortunate that you can't decouple the throttle response and transmission settings. In Sport mode the throttle pedal feels like an on/off switch.

[@jiurriza]

@@Zygrene I have a 2012 and I don't feel like throttle response in sport mode is that 'sharp'. I wonder if it was retuned throughout the years

[@ARentz07]

That is super weird. I have an IS 500, and I feel like the transmission performance when using the paddles is the same regardless of what mode I am in. If I give it some gas and shift high in the RPM range, it'll bang the shifts off quickly even in Normal. Wonder why the IS F was different?

[@jiurriza]

@@ARentz07 probably because it was implemented 10+ years ago. The IS F, at least my 2012 model, has 2 acceptable driving 'modes' in my mind. Flat out shifting at redline in sport, or normal driving with sport off. Anything in between is not smooth.

[@ARentz07]

@Jose Urriza Now, that part is still true unfortunately. It can be a little jerky if I don't drive it how it wants to be driven. 😄

[@ravenstylea2]

I'd be more than happy with an IS500 and some well made coilovers, a nice exhaust and tints. Noice!

[@BH-BH]

That IS F is a beauty!

[@ericinfante1885]

The upshifts would've been faster in sport mode but you were not confident with the throttle busy being touchy. I think that's where men cara shine where some have options to tune the car in every aspect on he you want it in steering, suspension, etc.

[@NaturallyaspiratedJJM]

I have driven both and the IS500 is a much better car and has better off the line torque delivery. The ISF needs to be driven hard to develop any power. On the street, torque is king.

[@paulmeglasson1919]

I too have been waiting for this review. I worked for Lexus for 30 years and finally 6 months ago bought a 2008 ISF. It does ride a little rough on our crappy city streets but is absolutely amazing on mountain roads. the response and drive-ability are spectacular once its warmed up. The first 2-3 shift is a little wonky but after that its fine. I plan on adding limited slip and a cat back exhaust. the shocks are all leaking so ill either replace them with the newer parts or research the best affordable aftermarket solution. Thanks again for your honest review.

[@brayan03]

finally been waiting for someone to make this video

[@rd4809]

I test drove the is500 today. The dealer has a couple new ones in colors I don’t care for but they have a used one in a color I liked. It has a couple hundred miles but they wouldn’t budge below 61k. I loved the car during the drive and I think it looks great. If they came down just a bit in price I’d buy it.

[@observe_and_purport]

Thanks for the price insight. MSRP in midwest for fully loaded red ones are ~$68k. I wouldn't mind getting one without the special wheels if it saves $2k.

[@eddieloera9999]

Good video. After, 6 months I'm still waiting for my IS500 to be delivered! ☹️

[@sdlausen1]

Nice!!!

[@moonman_8935]

Right now I got a '23 IS500 Ultra-White & previousely had a '22 IS500 Launch Edition. Excellent video & the oem tires (Potenza) suck. The Michelins are definitely a upgrade for the car.

[@LateNightDateNight]

Curious why you sold the Launch to get a 23?

[@moonman_8935]

@@LateNightDateNight Lexus dealer gave top $$ for it plus I prefer white cars..

[@E99584]

How much was the hit from trading in a pretty new car? I got a 23 is350, and I'm already planning the move to get a is500 at the end of the year

[@LateNightDateNight]

@@E99584 4 months ago I sold my LE for $69k, I ate the tax and fees. I only had my 500 for 6 months or so. Markets changed a lot since then, now they sell everything high and buy everything lowball

[@MeetInvesting]

Great review 👍🏻 didn’t realize the IS500 engine has 50+ more HP than the IS F

[@observe_and_purport]

I like that too, but it's also heavier IIRC. Offset somewhat. I enjoyed learning on these massive engines, an aftermarket exhaust can actually provide measurable gains like 30-40whp, because the backpressure is actually a thing here vs the typical 4 cylinder people put fart cannons on.

[@VersanGetryx]

You can easily reclaim that power (and more!) in the IS-F if you're willing to do headers/tune/exhaust, but yes added expense. As Observe noted already.

[@jasonhayman9521]

And you can do the same to the IS 500 and get even more power ​@@VersanGetryx

[@VersanGetryx]

@@jasonhayman9521 Sounds good to me! I'll take one of each :D I don't know that the IS500 justifies a 30k asking price over an ISF at this point, just imo

[@alexlopez5800]

The ISF (2010 + models) are SUPER FUN to drive and just the look on people's face when you blast past them on the freeway is priceless. I guess they think it's a normal Lexus IS till you put the right foot down lol

[@rook3364]

Pretty much same with the IS350 it pulls hard on the freeway too

[@alexlopez5800]

@@rook3364 It's a V6. ISF have a 5.0 with a positive diff. Huge difference lol 😂

[@rook3364]

@@alexlopez5800 I know I’m just saying the is350 pulls pretty hard too but yes no where near the ISF and IS500, I driven all tbh the ISF is way better then the IS500 the ISF gears more aggressive the IS500 not so much

[@Ryndel]

Sport mode shifts feel totally different in shifts. Too bad you didnt keep it on. Great review though! The 500 is newer but im very happy with my F.

[@_MIKIMOTO_]

ISF will always be OG 🫡

[@shmierda]

love that you chose to compare these two cars together gives me and other people content on what we’re looking for

[@ICEV]

TOM’S Chassis Bracing, Swift Spec-R Springs, Genuine A/T Cooler, Genuine Performance Brake Pads, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid and you have a better E90 M3. Does everything great but nothing perfect.

[@Toyota4Life]

Fun fact the 2014 ISF set down the same lap time as the v8 competition M3 on a lap race

[@WardoUSA]

First time viewer here. Awesome video, keep up the excellent content.

[@barfly246]

great video !! Wow, thats a lot of steering input for that small turn..

[@sketchpv3080]

Years ago I bought a used ‘08 IS-F with 77k miles. I beat the snot out of it for an additional 100k miles with zero issues. Replaced the front rotors and pads and went through about 8 sets of rear tires but that’s to be expected.

[@VersanGetryx]

Hey man - I just got one with 60k miles, a 2009. I honestly don't see the suspension issues that later models supposedly corrected, it is much less stiff than my C63 AMG. Do you have any tips or guidance specific to this car to maintain it well? Mechanically, or interior like conditioning those super comfy seats?

[@abcdLeeXY]

Bought and owned an RC-F for 6 months. It’s a reliable muscle car but that’s it.

[@sunnyvalentino]

I had my "need rear seats performance car" window shopping heart set on the 500 before you did the first review on it. Quickly moved on to the 86 or GRC as my two top choices along with CT4V Blackwing as another choice (but scared about GM long term, outside of Corvette and Camaro with their V8s they don't have good reliability). SS1LE didn't work for me unfortunately, I did test that. It was the visibility and high cowl.

[@retrograde11]

I'm looking at the same cars as you are plus CTR. Ct4 bw would be ideal, but yeah the reliability. So far seems to be solid in user community.

[@sunnyvalentino]

@RetroGrade11 right, the ATSV has decent reviews and this engine is similar but improved. It's tempting, don't get me wrong. CTR is epic but the FWD won't work for me where I live. I owned an Integra GSR back in the day, loved it in the dry, hated it in the wet and bad conditions.

[@retrograde11]

@@sunnyvalentino thx!

[@Maljey]

​@NatcheZ D Interesting take. You're shopping RWD cars and don't like FWD in bad conditions? Usually it's the opposite.

[@sunnyvalentino]

@mishfal there's a few distinct characteristics of FWD I've struggled with. In the wet, esp on hills (I live in the Pacific NW), the cars slip a lot on starts and also on acceleration and in wet in turns. Wheel hop, shuddering, front wheel peels, not the fun stuff. Its less on the Type R im sure because of the dual axis front and diff, but I dont trust it enough to try to get one. Lots of understeer as well in FWD in cold damp conditions. RWD does slip in wet easily, but that kind of lower power "burnout/spinning the wheels" is fun vs annoying. It's personal preference. I'd love the GRC though or even the BMW 340xi. AWD with the ability to bias to rear is perfect for what I want.

[@xxdeathlordx9683]

Yooooo he blasted tf outa that rev limiter lmaooo😂

[@ConfirmedPatriot]

Thanks for turning down or off that ASC. So doesn’t need enhanced sound through the speakers.

[@DallasTechie]

Great analysis. Very informative. Liked your content .

[@Datsun510zen]

At sub $60K the NA V8 F Sport holds it's own in terms of performance against European luxury sedans at more than twice the price. Although not a "fine automobile" in any respect, the 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing is doing the same to the likes of Ferrari. I love it.

[@Zygrene]

I want to get my hands on the CT-4/CT-5 Blackwing so bad. They're probably the last of their kind.

[@ARentz07]

It is hard to find one below MSRP, but point taken. And most of the ones for sale are the $63k Premium trim - and most of those have the $2450 BBS forged wheels added on. So, if you have $66k+ to spend, you are looking good. In fact, it is totally worth it at the price. I mean, your alternatives are what? An M340i? An Audi S4? Maybe a CT5-V (non-Blackwing)? None of those are as cool as the IS 500 if you ask me, nor are they as good looking.

[@ARentz07]

@@westibbs True, the M340i is a good pick - probably a "better" car in many ways. But I think a Lexus fan or anyone who can appreciate the NA V-8 will enjoy the IS 500 more.

[@tyhyhh]

That's why I like manual trans you generally don't see people complaining about them

[@Vakushka]

Love them both! Had an ISF previously and currently own a GSF, can’t get an IS500 where I am though ;/

[@ARentz07]

@@westibbs The important thing about the IS 500 is that it's a new car with a warranty. You can still buy them new. With some minor brake and tire upgrades, it'll be just as quick as a GS F - though, it does not have the cooling capacity of the GS F. So, the F will hold up a lot better on track.

[@seanclarke4061]

@@ARentz07 gsf weighs an additional 100lbs , so why is it faster?

[@c04-i8h]

The is500 is basically the new ISF. ISF has been my dream car, but I guess the is500 is a modern version of the ISF. I don’t like the back bumper of the is500 tbh. I’d pay any price for a low mileage ISF

[@Toyota4Life]

It is not a new ISF !!!!

[@f-bodygarage]

I currently own an 06 IS250 6MT and I bought it specifically because I did not want an IS350 due to its lack of a manual option and how sluggish the 6-speed autos in the 2IS 250/350s are, it’s slow, but it’s quite enjoyable despite how mediocre the manual is it’s an entirely different level of mediocre in comparison to the auto. I love the ISFs and bought a 250 manual because that was as close as I could get with my budget and I will say if you are to get a 2IS and can’t get an ISF get a 6MT if you can find one otherwise I wouldn’t recommend buying a 250 or 350 if you’re looking to have a fun sporty daily. My 250 is completely stock haven’t done the GT86 4.10 diff conversion and it’s still on a factory 3.73 diff but on the backroads even with the stock commuter suspension I’ve kept up with my ISF buddies that I’ve played with, part of that is driver mod and part of it is that the IS platform truly does have some great handling but for a stock car it’s certainly a fun daily. If you do get one and want to do some spirited driving make sure you do the 350 front brake conversion, you’re gonna need it.

[@85CEKR]

I got my is500 a few weeks ago and I was a little worried about the transmission as I had never test drove one and all the reviews really harped on it. I'd test driven RS3's and 340i's and really liked how quick they shifted it really improves the driving experience. Now after I e had mine a few weeks and gotten through the breaking period, I really don't understand understand what people are complaining about, mine shifts lightning fast, faster I feel than the 340i and on par with the audi. In sport plus its definitely more brutal than both those cars. One thing though the engine and transmission do have to be fully up to temp otherwise yes the shifts can be a bit random.

[@tigerrider6711]

08 is350 owner here, I bought it on a whim but never really fell in love with the car at all. Lots of strange quirks, like why electric power steering and direct injection but bad fuel economy. The car feels good at 6 or 7 tenths but beyond that it leaves a lot to be desired, and isn’t the greatest highway cruiser either. I ended up giving it to my wife for her daily because I couldn’t bear to sell it after putting so much maintenance in.

[@latino914]

Same had a 2006 is350, but felt like it was Missing something. Got a G37 Sedan and that car has more character and a beautiful exhaust note 🎵.

[@augustortiz]

If you use them as appliances they are fantastic. As a sport sedan, not at all.

[@latino914]

@@augustortiz I agree luxury wise, better than my G37, smoother shifting, less road noise, more features. But it got boring after a while but it is still a great car.

[@tigerrider6711]

I think the issue was the electric power steering combined with the mushy bushing design on the front lower arm. Took away all steering feel and even bad enough that most IS have premature tire wear. I read about the strange geometry issue with the front end on this chassis and can't remember the half of it, but it's not a very good design.

[@bcvijasiu]

So I have an IS500. I love it, but I am missing the manual and I have been thinking of getting a CTR. Any thoughts since you have a ITS?

[@aldo1conn]

You young guys are so use to modern electronics in a car, the ISF is an amazing car if you know how to drive it will make you smile all day long. It’s you that can’t handle the car not the car can’t handle the road.

[@YakuzaJZ]

Love the vids and detail man!

[@ernestomorales2487]

I just found your channel, keep it up dude!

[@Soulrollsdeep]

It irks me no end that Lexus will continue to sell the RCF in the UK, but won't bring the IS500 to these shores. It would sell, in quite high numbers as well.

[@they_call_me_don9899]

I have an 06 IS350 with 167k miles and it runs better than my mom's brand new Chevy which is currently in the shop 😅

[@alwaysup22]

I just drove next to this ISF on the freeway on Friday... I have the silver IS500

[@Downloadfreak]

Was that you on 280 South? Nice car!

[@alwaysup22]

@@Downloadfreak It was, and likewise! That ISF is so ridiculous, despite the storms still looked beautiful

[@LONGWALDO]

Love my is500!. Great car

[@Prototyp3m1nd]

If performance is your concern, a facelift ISF will get you a lot more for the money. If a fun daily with usable rear seats is what you're after then maybe the IS500 will do you better, but that's a LOT of money you could be putting towards modding a stock ISF. I don't think there are any situations where the 500 is the better value, but it definitely may provide the better experience for someone who wants to do next to no modding and have a more modern infotainment system.

[@lovereon20]

Always great content!

[@j3boii]

Can’t wait .. when I change my is350f to a is500..

[@reck0n3r]

I hate EPS. Thanks for the review. Wish more people, especially reviewers, would talk about the very real downsides to EPS. It's a plague unto the enthusiast market, even if you're not driving sports cars. There is a very discernible difference between the more visceral road feedback through the steering rack and wheel from older cars (pre-2010ish) and more modern ones. It's even a potential safety issue. But I'm a bit surprised more driving enthusiasts aren't talking about this more and clamoring for the manufacturers to bring back HPS systems, at LEAST for sports cars. For the daily driving commuters for people who don't give a damn about their driving experience, sure let them have the numbed out EPS systems, they won't notice or care, but it doesn't need to bring its lifeless contagion to the enthusiast market.

[@reck0n3r]

Just to add, I believe one of the earliest sports cars that had an EPS installed was the Honda S2000, which I believe was behind a lot of its well known driving safety issues. You just don't get the feedback from the road that you should, and it's difficult to tell what the vehicle is doing, due to lack of direct communication to the road.

[@musamusa2961]

Thank God, I will buy one for myself

[@phildeacon9738]

Can you confirm if you had it in F mode or not? Forget the sports button, just gear lever moved to side and F up on the dash.

[@computerhelpcc]

? IS500 vs 2016 GSF perspective? I bought GSF 2016 1.5 yrs ago; induction song at 3,600 rpm under 50%+ throttle is a brassy sound that never gets old. TVD is hilarious, delivering elegant moves that are hard to accept vs my 99 911 manual w 0 options.

[@ARentz07]

I've never driven a GS F, but I've driven multiple RC Fs and have owned my IS500 for about 2 months. The IS500 feels closer to an engine-swapped IS350 than an RC F. It's pretty comfy and easy to drive anywhere. But in Sport S+, manual mode, it's still a barrel of monkeys on a back road. I love it. The RC F is more precise and has better body control. But honestly, it isn't a huge difference. The big deal with the F is the addition of better brakes and cooling compared with the IS500. It'll be able to take the abuse a lot better on a longer track session.

[@Conan997]

@Zygrene, what canyons are is roads? Is this Mt Diablo? I would love to take my '11 isf there.

[@qnunyuh8417]

I have a 13 isf 45k and even though the 500 is the better car I couldn't bring my self to trade her in.

[@sdlausen1]

Yeah... don't. The 13 ISF is a GEM.

[@sansooori]

for the shifting: you can say push up for upshift and pull down for down shift .. anyway for me it's the fittest

[@hammychan1]

that 08 is beautiful

[@johnconnor2402]

177k miles is nothing. One of the guys at my car meet has 330k miles on is is350.

[@kkeshav74]

I have an 07 IS350 with 117k miles and I beat the living hell out of it every day. Toyota reliability >>

[@res0zsfa]

is this RIch Brian's brother? lolllll good content

[@trueblueamerican9]

This would of been a lot better if both cars were actually stock. While they weren’t extreme modifications the only thing you’re demonstrating is how these cars with these mods compare.

[@erickavelar2111]

Transmission shifts faster in sport mode but it was too touchy for you. I daily a 2011 isf. Throttle response and transmission shifts are much better in sport mode but as you said, the rapid throttle response is not great for stop and go traffic, parking lots and drive throughs lol

[@hamsterbrigade]

The 2008-2009 ISF is the worst example of the car by far. I appreciate you mentioning the issues(outside of the steering issues which they also addressed in the later models) and what the driver has done to try and address them. For anyone looking at one of these the 2011+ is what you want, outside of the LSD, the steering curves are all completely different(light and direct, very porsche) and the stock suspension is MILES better than the 2008-2010. The 2012-2014 is the pinnacle of this car but I don't think the value is there.

[@MD-uu5nt]

A 2008 can be upgraded to a 2013 spec very easily. I fitted 2012 spec dampers and springs for about $200 and it is miles better than the OEM 2008. I also fitted an RR racing lower control arm which does more to improve steering feel than the ECU changes Lexus implemented on later cars. But again, a plug and play 2013 steering upgrade can be installed if you want to. An LSD can be fitted for about $2000. Upgrading a 2008 is much better value than paying double for a 2013/2014.

[@Aikynbreusov]

Do they both have the same engine???? Can you do a video on what other Lexus products use the IS-F V8 and the IS500 and IS500 F??????

[@Laughing_Man2]

you were high on the ISF vs the W204 on a few things that you ended up commenting negatively about here lol IDK if this is bias due to how you felt about the W204 or this time you were compensating bc you knew that the IS500 should and would have better handling then the original. Albeit, I think based on your criteria for handling being off feeling makes it subjective at best

[@Philmoscowitz]

If Lexus would just upgrade the transmission and digital tech on the IS500 it would be soooo. sweet!

[@Swaangin]

I own a 2015 IS250, always interested in how the ISF compared to IS500. Great review, however, IS platform is so dated.. feel like my eyes are set on an M340i. Would love if you could review that. +1 sub

[@iShowUnusualBehavior]

I agree. I own a 08 is350 and was considering upgrading to the current gen, but at the price point the f8x m3/4 looks real good to me. But tbf the Lexus would probably easily outlast the bimmers as a long term car. You looking to buy new?

[@Swaangin]

@@iShowUnusualBehavior the upgrade from 2IS to 3IS is substantial due to the fact the interior and body of the car is completely different. But going from the 3IS to the “3.5 IS”, it’s literally the same car from 2014 except the the cosmetics, but the engine dates back from the 2IS. I’d look into new or 1-2 year old with no more than 15k miles on it. I bought my IS with 10k miles. I’ve been doing some research on BMW and a lot are reporting up to 100k miles driven with no issues on the B58 engine (which is used in the m340i & Toyota Supra). I’m big on reliability as well so I’m still keeping my eye on what BMW has to offer.

[@shrayesraman5192]

@@Swaangin Was cross shopping 2015 is 350 vs 2008. Saved the 12k and the car is smaller and lighter so it is faster. Great car for the price. Imo infotainment is better than the 2015.

[@ARentz07]

The G20 BMW is impressive, no doubt about that. But it just feels less involving to drive - no matter if it is a 330i or M340i - than the IS. But, the M340i is a rocket - it is so fast in a straight line, even the IS 500 with 472 horsepower will struggle to keep up. If that's important to you, then by all means... the B58 is a wonderful engine - smooth and very strong at all RPMs. But, for me, I prefer the sound and more visceral feeling of the V-8.

[@Swaangin]

@@ARentz07 ClubLexus veteran here 🤣 👋

[@KidJaeProductions]

One thing about Lexus is you honestly don’t have to worry too much about maintenance, since it is made by Toyota. They surely know how to make a reliable engine 😎

[@fmgamer6248]

I would pick the isf just because it’s looks better in my opinion. Plus it’s been proven by people that the longevity of the isf will last where as the new is500 is still new and we don’t know how long it will last. One thing for sure that ik is that Toyota hasn’t built cars like they did with the older models. Obviously they are still reliable compared to other competitors but the reality is that it’s not the same. They kept it reliable but not too reliable to the point where people keep it for 10-15yrs.

[@THEFIRE360]

Hope I can get one before production probably stops next year

[@GODSPD]

Still gotta love that old design. The new looks great too 😂

[@fastec5]

The transmission is really good in the ISF, you just have to tune it. Shifts get almost instant.

[@victorh7567]

That and on top of that having it in sport mode is a game changer the paddles are way more responsive.

[@sdlausen1]

Nobody tunes these transmissions that I know of. The issue is he didn't have it in sport mode or in the F mode. When you have the car on normal like he did, it REALLY slows the shifts down. So... he was complaining about an issue he caused accidentally.

[@victorh7567]

@@sdlausen1 actually yeah there is a well known person in the F community that is able to tune the transmission on these cars..tuned by loi!!!

[@fastec5]

@@victorh7567 the LOI tuned transmissions are nutty. Full lockup way early and shifts are almost instant. He just set the world record NA ISF run with like an 11.21

[@victorh7567]

@@fastec5 i know I’m waiting on my headers to get my F tuned by him 🫡

[@BWItoATXF]

That IS F coilover dampening is wayyyyyy too soft for those roads and that demand. I’m curious to see what handling will be with increasing firmness.

[@roofcamper3473]

Is the manual upshifting in these actual upshifting? Or is it just +1ing the gear limiter like the other lexus cars?

[@basedking00]

I love my 2012 lexus isF! Got it with 34k miles too back in November of 2022. Now at 39k miles! Also red interior

[@kimofromkalihi]

Went from ISF to S4 to q50 3.0tt and now a VA STI. ISF was the slowest when all get FBO. Stock it was the fastest. Would still own ISF if I didn’t have 3 kids.

[@DJYAMIN107]

Which ones the most fun to drive though?

[@shadow36057]

wait sti was faster even fbo stock turbo??

[@s.a.i.v]

Most cars in the 2000's have a sport mode where they overdo the throttle response

[@definitionXrp]

My 2013 honda v6 definitely overdone

[@vigorosoPIMPJr]

Let’s hope Lexus comes out with a new ISF!

[@Toyota4Life]

They are but they are taking their sweet time

[@3on4off]

Use the back button on the steering wheel to clear the warning from the main display.

[@observe_and_purport]

really?

[@ssonosk]

The coil-overs setup with the factory HKS setting?

[@_JTPR_]

If you run coils on the isf you need bc racing from figs other wise stock or springs are fine

[@quang_le]

Not related to this specific video, but I'm planning to attend a track day for the very soon. I'll be taking my DD and was wondering if Track Day Insurance would be recommended. Considering you've been to multiple track days and more recently with a newer purchased car, I'd like to hear your opinion on this. Thanks!

[@joeracer302]

There are options for single events or yearly coverage. You may want to get it to just give yourself peace of mind, anything can happen out there after all, but in general I feel safer and more comfortable on track than driving around LA. The question of should you get it is really a personal decision that balances on your own personal risk adversity and financial situation. I honestly think most people are more cautious when starting out and less likely to wreck, even though they have less experience, as it is perhaps more risky when you are getting comfortable and start pushing the limit further. I don’t know of many instances of people stuffing a car into a wall on their first time out. You have natural sense of self preservation and aren’t likely to put yourself into situations beyond your control. But again, insurance is not a bad idea, and will only allow you to feel more comfortable, so it is definitely worth considering. Hope that helps.

[@Zygrene]

I'd always recommend track insurance, but my personal approach is to weigh the likelihood and cost of an incident based on the track (walls are bad), weather (rain is bad), and the car I'm driving (expensive RWD cars are bad).

[@quang_le]

Great insight from the two of you. Thanks for the advice!

[@Druze_Tito]

8:38 - wait, wait, is that permanent strut bar, welded over the engine? Am I seeing things wrong?

[@kaypolplasco]

All the negatives towards the Transmission not being the greatest but man, its a great car.

[@Toyota4Life]

All those comments are unwarranted the car is 2008… The technology in the transmission is 16 years old. They’re complaining instead of trading how good it is for its age they’re OVER driving the car. drive the car within its capabilities

[@neilcowan9206]

The IS-F engine was engineered by Yamaha in all the year models and the trans is single clutch and not duel clutch like most manufacturer use ( why slower shifting )

[@ggthx]

Toyota/Lexus don't like using dual clutch because they did not last, and are quite clunky with normal everyday driving...dual clutch transmissions are very good for highways/tracks...

[@ramanapixelxl7572]

I love both the is-f and is-500. But at close to 70k the value proposition is questionable imo for the is500.

[@ramanapixelxl7572]

Also at 70k I would rather get a CPO GS f.

[@floggyWM1]

@@ramanapixelxl7572 i bought is500 for 64k, and imo its better to own a brand new vehicle for 64k then a 3 year old vehicle with over 20k miles for 70k

[@ramanapixelxl7572]

@@floggyWM1 it’s a Lexus , at 20k it’s barely broken in. Also Lexus’s cpo warranty is excellent.

[@ARentz07]

The value proposition is pretty solid if you ask me. It's fully loaded at $66k, and cars are selling for sticker now rather than marked up. What are your other options at that price? M340i? Eh, maybe. S4? Pass. C43? Hard pass.

[@BM-og1yx]

IMO If u track get isF if not is500 is sweet enough with modern tech and nicer interior design.

[@dspada67]

I have had both a FBO ISF and several e90/92 M3 ( see the review on Ross Reviews , the Blue one ISF ) the ISF is the better long term reliability, it’s just not quite as race ,pure bred as the M3’s. Bothe will be rare in the future especially the ISF I feel.

[@DailyShorts5966]

Hey man, seen your review on RR. I’m also in AUS, looking at an 08 ISF w 200kms for 27-28k AUD. Have you had any reliability issues so far?

[@dspada67]

@@DailyShorts5966 hey bro, I seriously regret selling mine. In the process of selling my 2007 ML63 AMG to buy another ISF. Other than Valley plate ( that would have been done with 200 k on the clock) listen out for exhaust manifold leak , pretty Bulletproof, one on KZbin with 400,000 on it Misha on the ring. Cheers

[@tnutss]

Good picks for head to head. Good comments on the cars. H just need to improve on video editing to get to the next level

[@griffielliott279]

So which would you suggest the RCF or is500

[@ARentz07]

Do you need four doors? IS500. Do you plan to take it to the track? RC F. Otherwise, depends on your budget and what you like.

[@lewadaptus7960]

The price here in Malaysia for this car is killing..

[@mat_rif3689]

did you mean Roadtax?... I saw the ad at FB, around RM 150k

[@keyzin]

owned an isf 2008 from 2017-2019. awesome car , comfortable , isolated, robust engine with zero maintenance worries. downside: it sucks more petrol than other sedans due to its weight and pick up was slower than any other sporty car lastly making paddle shift kinda gimmicky due to the delay

[@Ryndel]

These cars totally transform with a throttle controller. Love mine.

[@dgutes]

How can you upgrade the front brakes to ISF/Brembo? I thought they didn’t fit on the IS 500?

[@nrgonline]

Isf caliper bolt on to is500 front rotor. 350phi discovered this.

[@dgutes]

@@nrgonline Interesting. Any tips on locating someone who can do this kind of work? Dealerships don't seem interested in mods

[@bkthompson877]

A trans fluid change will tighten up the shifts in manual.

[@shooter.mcgavin]

I wish the ISF was cooler looking but they just aren’t. 😕

[@SuperEman500]

I wonder why Throttle House hasn't done this same review

[@Analysis5]

They should make manual version that will be epic more control