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@fixeroftheinternet
@fixeroftheinternet 20 минут бұрын
Why on earth do we continue to ignore tidal as source of predictive energy. The UK has the geography to exploit this more than most
@thechloromancer3310
@thechloromancer3310 2 сағат бұрын
"I abhor the Chinese political system" Why? Put aside ideology and Western indoctrination, and ask yourself why you hate China's political system so much? The people of China are better represented by their government, which is supposed to be the entire point of democratic forms of government. Western governments have more rights on paper, and certainly in practice when it comes to Freedom Of Speech, but that doesn't move the needle much when compared to the absolute corruption and lack of representation that seems to be baked into the cake of democratic governments. And that is even before considering the question of long-term planning.
@vegamoonlight
@vegamoonlight 42 минут бұрын
Who said it and what timestamp?
@gunsumwong3948
@gunsumwong3948 3 сағат бұрын
This video is factual but I prefer the story in plain English instead from a purely western angle.. US has plenty of oil and gas but China has mainly coal. So for years the west has threatening/badmouthing China with the pollution issues. The west was the original coal users to create their industrial revolutions before but today they have gas to replace coal. China has been a poor country and could not afford to import huge amount of gas just to burn it to generate electricity. For the simplicity of survival China has no choice but to find ways to generate power using renewable means. After years effort and innovations China is now the biggest global renewable power generator in each of the hydro, wind and solar. In 2023 China installed more solar power in 12 month than the entire US's national total solar capacity. What China has been doing isn't to win a race. It is a perfectly sensible development for a country using its own resources to solve its own problems without affecting people outside China. Thus every Chinese is onboard and the whole country moves as one unit.
@Raytracer96024
@Raytracer96024 3 сағат бұрын
China 🇨🇳🇭🇰🇲🇴🇹🇼🇨🇳💪
@jsladenumuno
@jsladenumuno 4 сағат бұрын
"Let's get two people who don't understand thermodynamics to tell the rubes that electricity good even if it comes from burning coal."
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich Сағат бұрын
I have a Cambridge University prize in Thermodynamics. Even if you power a heat pump or an EV with electricity from coal compared with a gas boiler or ICE car (which is not what is happening) you reduce CO2 emissions. That's thermodynamics, dude. Now trot on.
@Aendavenau
@Aendavenau 4 сағат бұрын
Nuclear is stable, load following should come from something else. We (Sweden) have a lot of hydropower, we usually save some in the dams for the winter and a bad day. They would be load following (the dams that is). If there is no wind and clouds block solar we still can produce nuclear energy and thus give hydro a chance to keep up.
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich Сағат бұрын
Nice if you have lots of hydro sand low population density.
@SSB69
@SSB69 5 сағат бұрын
Frank evidence based discussion and debate. Keep up the good work and excellent set of invited guests.
@marcustait79
@marcustait79 5 сағат бұрын
57:00 Wouldn't it be fantastic if the small nations of the world move ahead with these measures leaving the "global North" standing with their trousers round their ankles!!!!
@ctrl-shift-run8681
@ctrl-shift-run8681 5 сағат бұрын
Too many corporate interests in the US. Whether that's good or bad, time will tell.
@HungLeeBio
@HungLeeBio 7 сағат бұрын
Very good coverage, and well done on having an argument on screen - we need to see more of this on podcasts!
@albacan
@albacan 7 сағат бұрын
I’m off the fence and agree climate is changing, as nature dictates it must be
@buildmotosykletist1987
@buildmotosykletist1987 7 сағат бұрын
China will win the race to produce the most pollution.
@wy8718
@wy8718 8 сағат бұрын
wildfire!how is it in LA now?
@qinfugu2816
@qinfugu2816 10 сағат бұрын
too few wise people in the US
@Bailey_iQ
@Bailey_iQ 13 сағат бұрын
Coal powers that Electrostate- and they will always need to import petro supplies. Very narrow focus here. Are you hoping a narrowly focused gov will hand out those big $$$?
@thechloromancer3310
@thechloromancer3310 3 сағат бұрын
"Coal powers that Electrostate" Technology advances and cost reduction for solar power and batteries makes that increasingly not the case. "and they will always need to import petro supplies" China will likely be the first nation to wean itself off oil. 55% of new car sales are EV (years ahead of schedule), and rapidly rising.
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich Сағат бұрын
The percentage of coal in China's power mix has dropped from 75% in 2020 to below 60% last year. Of course that's still high, but in the context of energy it's a very rapid shift. Watch and learn over the next 5 years, and bear in mind what has happened in Europe and the US.
@1voluntaryist
@1voluntaryist 14 сағат бұрын
Freedom = chaos??? No! Authoritarianism = chaos. The free market "seems" chaotic to central planners (authoritarians). Business regulators have a "perfect record" of failure. Is that your goal?
@cmw3737
@cmw3737 16 сағат бұрын
Totally agree that demand response is needed more. Why is the cost of all electricity set by the marginal cost of gas? Far better that we have more real time pricing with responsive demands like AI training, industry and bitcoin mining that can be turned off when the price spikes. Smart homes and vehicles that switch off heating, washing and charging too.
@jdaglish2975
@jdaglish2975 17 сағат бұрын
PWR (Pressurised Water Reactors) and BWR (Boiling Water Reactors) nuclear is not that flexible. EDF nuclear manager, "ramping possible 9 times / reactor / year" . EDF France have a large fleet ~58 stations so can flex a lot during the year, theoretically 58x9=522 times but plants are out of service due to failure (embrittlement becomes more of an issue as reactors age) , for maintenance/refuelling, and due to lack of cooling capacity of rivers in summer. France also has a huge hydro fleet of 20 GW that helps with the daily flexing that the UK does not have. With UKs future small fleet 2 to 4 or 6 reactors (each station has 2 reactors) then flexing (if designed in but at the moment has not been designed in or regulated by UK authorities) will be insignificant as it cannot be done daily with the maximum talked about build out of 3 stations eg 2 x 9=18 to 6 x 9= 54 times/year. But if they run as CHP with a thermal store (not designed or being built for this) then they can flex to heat production for District Heating but how often and how much, and it would reduce the higher payment elec generation needed for return on investment. Nuclear because of its very high capital cost needs to run flat out all the time. The simple answer is that renewables are cheaper and an integrated system is being developed by NESO (UK) to handle the variability, maintain frequency.and stability of the grid.
@silberlinie
@silberlinie 18 сағат бұрын
Look at the split screen. A figure on one side and another on the other. On the left, a zombie in his sauna. On the right, a lady in her elegant living room. You think: OMG: This is not going to end well.
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich Сағат бұрын
And yet it does!
@firstlast-pt5pp
@firstlast-pt5pp 19 сағат бұрын
@10:15 - the richer you are the more "freedom" you have - see the income distribution of the top 1% vs the bottom 90%
@justinelliott3529
@justinelliott3529 Күн бұрын
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t forced labor called slavery
@peterjohn5834
@peterjohn5834 Күн бұрын
If Dutton was serious he and the neoliberals would have started a national community discussion more than ten years ago. They had ten years and they did nothing with the power grid, no studies no planning, just pretending that you do not need to upgrade the grid. It’s just pathetic Tory politics. The last time they were in three years ago they left us with $800 billion in debt, no infrastructure built and no Doctors trained. They are a complete waste of space that has infiltrated the once great Liberal party and create nothing but division.
@peterjohn5834
@peterjohn5834 Күн бұрын
Michael it’s not the 4 year cycle in the USA, it’s the Quarterly Reporting system. Light Capital companies, no emphasis education. We can all be baristas and you do not need infrastructure.
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich 23 сағат бұрын
Wrong. Compare the market capitalisation of US quoted companies with their cash flow from the next quarter, year, or even 5 years, and you'll see that the valuation reflects long-term thinking.
@matt.baller
@matt.baller Күн бұрын
Glad I finally found this channel - absolutely top tier content for this industry in particular.
@Pythonizah
@Pythonizah Күн бұрын
43:15 Why is methanol production able to be switched off without thermal cycling punishment? Presumably this is true only for e-methanol production, since gasifiers require high temperatures?
@Pythonizah
@Pythonizah Күн бұрын
Please make a separate episode on biofuels. I wish there was a "biomass ladder" similar to your "hydrogen ladder".
@simon-c2y
@simon-c2y Күн бұрын
Nuclear is baseload, has to be on all the time. That is a problem for it as a backup to weather dependant renewables. It would be lovely if you could have it turned off, and then just turn it on when the weather is bad for renewables. But it has to be on all the time. Good point about industry demand being able to be turned off during Daunkenflaute. Australia is wrong for nuclear.
@GM4ThePeople
@GM4ThePeople Күн бұрын
"VAST tracts of land"
@nickcook2714
@nickcook2714 Күн бұрын
With regard to nuclear in Australia, I would say it would probably not a bad idea to watch Aussie engineer Rosie Barnes' episode of her 'Engineering With Rosie' KZbin channel titled: "Four reasons why nuclear power is a dumb idea for Australia" kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpCXaH-Ne6Z6bMksi=yD4qX30b1UAOpyLY Regardless of whether Australia should be allowed to build nuclear or not, there is probably little economic sense in it. They don't suffer from any significant dunkelflaute like we do in northern Europe and they get twice as much insolation as we do in the UK and their peak generation probably correlates reasonably well with peak demand, i.e. for powering air conditioning systems. The amount of long-term storage they require is probably very minimal and I very much doubt whether it would justify nuclear when solar is dirt cheap. I wouldn't be at all surprised that for practically all domestic use most homes were able to go completely off grid, considering the plummeting cost and increasing performance of batteries (LiFePO4 UK retail cost ≈$75/KWh & 8,000 cycles = 1.04p/KWh + BoP etc.)
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich Күн бұрын
I know Rosie well - I'm fact she has been on the show!
@nickcook2714
@nickcook2714 23 сағат бұрын
@MLiebreich I was actually aware of that, I watched the episode, I posted the comment and link more for the benefit of others
@nickcook2714
@nickcook2714 Күн бұрын
Having a single, or predominantly so, technology for electricity generation doesn't necessarily cause a problem, the UK ran quite happily on coal with a little bit of hydro, and did so for many years, before nuclear came along. However, with increasing inflexible nuclear in the generation mix we needed to add some flexibility, which I suspect is why Dinorwig was built. Having one technology for generation is perfectly alright as long as you have multiple generation sources, the generation can be ramped up and down fairly quickly and easily without huge cost implications and the fuel can be stored in vast quantities for very long periods of time. The only real problem with coal is pollution, and in particular the CO2. If CO2 wasn't a global warming gas we may well have built more coal generation instead of Hinckley C. The real solutron for mitigating intermittent renewables, especially during extended dunkelflaute periods, would be a viable seasonal storage technology. Based on the Royal Society energy storage report, very long term storage equivalent to about a month's worth of annual demand, probably less than 5% in a typical year, should be able to meet the UK's worst case conditions with a suitable mix of solar and wind. I suspect that it would also be cheaper than nuclear backup, even if it is based on storing hydrogen in Salt caverns. However, I believe there are probably much better and than using hydrogen. @CleaningUpPod I'm with you, Michael, on nuclear. The usual modus operandi for businesses, especially those in the private sector, with expensive equipment is generally to operate it at the maximum realistic capacity factor, unless someone's prepared to pay you to do otherwise. To keep the cost of nuclear generation down once you've built it you really need it to be running it at the highest capacity factor available, there's no real point in turning it down just so you can use wind and solar you might just as well build less solar and wind. In fact, with high levels of nuclear in the system you also need some flexible on demand capability, possibly storage, because you will need to ramp generation up and down quickly at times. Because the marginal cost of nuclear is so small the cost of electricity is mostly due to the capital and financing costs so, to be viable it needs to generate the same amount of revenue each year which is almost independent from the amount of electricity generated. Economically, nuclear basically displaces wind and solar rather than supporting them.
@John-ed8ye
@John-ed8ye Күн бұрын
Technical speaking China is powered by coal with 60% of its electricity coming from coal fired powered plants. The US in contrast is a natural gas powered state with NG replacing coal and accounting for about 50% of electricty.
@nickcook2714
@nickcook2714 Күн бұрын
"everybody knows the ship is sinking, everybody knows the captain lied ..." "The rich get reached the poor stay poor, that's how it goes, and everybody knows", Leonard Cohen - Everybody Knows
@MarkShapiro-m8r
@MarkShapiro-m8r Күн бұрын
Michael: you handled Rory Sutherland's climate change skepticism admirably, but the absolute gem was the Winston Churchill story of the stolen pepper pot. "If you portray yourself as a fellow offender and not as an accuser, the psychological dynamic changes." Henceforth I will always admit that I burn coal, oil and gas, and I'm trying to stop.
@thechloromancer3310
@thechloromancer3310 4 сағат бұрын
"Michael: you handled Rory Sutherland's climate change skepticism admirably" The whole political dynamic for this debate is foolish anyway. I am a climate skeptic, and have been so since 1998's Vostok ice core analysis. Regardless, I'm also a fan of green energy and own an EV. I am a proponent for sustainable elimination of coal, since coal releases a number of hazardous toxins into the air is likely partly responsible for the global degradation of human/animal health issues and fertility. Sadly, fellow climate skeptics are locked into a groupthink of "green energy bad, coal good", and fellow fans of green energy tend to have ridiculously apocalyptic views of climate change.
@jimgraham6722
@jimgraham6722 Күн бұрын
Thanks guys, great debate. I agree totally with Bryony Worthington. She has a very comprehensively well thought out position. Michael's position is too much based on unsupported opinions. Claiming we can fully compensate for dankelflaut by demand adjustment is simply moving deficiencies in energy generation costs to users. Productivity and the economy as a whole would suffer.
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich Күн бұрын
I don't claim that. I believe we'll end up using unabated gas for a week or two of Dunkelflaute per year. The ultras will whine and moan, but the cost of eliminating those last 2-4% of emissions will be so exorbitant that we'll simply never decide it's worth it.
@rockinrobstar81
@rockinrobstar81 Күн бұрын
I don't think she does. The nuclear tribe love to talk about the whole system picture, but then completely fail to detail how nuclear, that can't ramp (it needs to run almost full throttle to be economic), can solve the dunkelflaute problem economically. Sure, use nuclear in Europe that have deep winter peaks for the baseload, But here in Australia we don't have deep winters, nor dunkelflaute and so nuclear makes no sense here, contrary to Bryony's claim.
@jimgraham6722
@jimgraham6722 Күн бұрын
@rockinrobstar81 As someone who has powered my home for over twenty five years purely on solar PV and wind, I can assure you Australian dankelflaut is a thing. It can happen anytime but usually occurs in late winter with up to ten days straight where renewables output is just 20% of rated output. By day four of such events local storage batteries are depleted and it is generators on. These events typically occur once a year but sometimes up to three times a year. Just occasionally they don't happen at all. At a national grid level, pumped storage such as Snowy Hydro 2 (350GWhr at the 2GW rate, cost $13bn) compensates for such episodes. Each such project is the equivalent of a mid sized nuclear power plant. The trouble is modelling shows that to provide the necessary assurance with a 100% renewables solution, ten such projects are needed by 2050. So far only 2 have been approved. One of the other more promising pumped hydro projects (Burdekin) has been cancelled, a disgraceful decision IMO that must be reversed. Setting that aside the issue is operationally and environmentally acceptable sites. The problem is lack of substantial rivers and sites offering the needed elevation and volume at a feasible cost. Having had a look at the issue I can only see about five 'good' sites in eastern Australia including Marinus and Snowy2. This includes Burdekin. I think we should go ahead and build all five. To make up for the five missing projects we should use nuclear. The nuclear component would constitute about 30% of the needed generation capacity by 2050. The balance could then be safely provided by renewables backed by the five mega storage projects. Chemical batteries would cover transition periods for example from wind and solar to hydro and/or nuclear and vice versa. The nuclear would be scaled for the fixed baseload. The rest would be set up to handle the minute to minute variable load including peak demands such as heat waves etc. I am inclined to Labor view points but in this case I think the Coalition proposal for seven nuclear plants of various sizes is about right. To convince me otherwise, Labor would have to announce funding for eight large scale pumped hydro projects to including something to cover WA and SA. I just don't see that happening.
@ianlighting100
@ianlighting100 Күн бұрын
Michael should have a glass of red with every episode :)
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich Күн бұрын
Hah! Andsome of the spiciest bits got edited out :-)
@BobQuigley
@BobQuigley Күн бұрын
B9th sid8sm is a favorite red herring. Lazy
@simonpannett8810
@simonpannett8810 Күн бұрын
South America even riper to transition to 100% renewables than Africa as it has food surpluses but great for Hydro, Solar & Wind with battery storage!
@Bailey_iQ
@Bailey_iQ 13 сағат бұрын
Hydro via dams is an inferior solution to help the environment.
@chrisruss9861
@chrisruss9861 Күн бұрын
To save Australian wildlife habitat I would be happy to pay a premium for small footprint nuclear, but not for the other 'green' alternatives.
@MLiebreich
@MLiebreich Күн бұрын
Makes sense, what with Australia being even more crowded than Hong Kong.
@simonpannett8810
@simonpannett8810 Күн бұрын
Renewables are the ONLY long term solution to energy! EU should invest in North African States and build interconnections and even a gas line??
@andymacleod2365
@andymacleod2365 2 күн бұрын
34min in where is the Uranium going to come from for the West for all these Nuclear power stations as I believe Iran is the only country with good reserves?
@jimgraham6722
@jimgraham6722 Күн бұрын
There are ample uranium reserves about 4,000 years with fuel recycling. More using the thorium cycle and extraction from seawater. The general idea is to use fission until fusion is available. At that point fuel reserves equal the life of the planet
@andymacleod2365
@andymacleod2365 Күн бұрын
@@jimgraham6722 Haven't they been sying since the 1930s that Fusion is only a few years away, beam me up capten:)
@waywardgeologist2520
@waywardgeologist2520 2 күн бұрын
5:11 the emotional ones are the Democrats. They are also very autocratic in their nature, suffering from a superiority complex.
@ChristianThePagan
@ChristianThePagan 2 күн бұрын
China … nuff said.
@jhegenberg78
@jhegenberg78 2 күн бұрын
This was one of THE best discussions I ever heard about nuclear and while comparing it the talks in German election battles seem like kindergarten sandbox fights. I personally switched from being opposed to nuclear and now regret the German reactors were turned off far before their EOL - at the same time I have to agree to Michael's position here: Nuclear isn't the best approach to manage Dunkelflaute as we are talking about a few weeks/year here. Which reactor can run economically at that load percentage? For Germany we would need another 40 GW of nuclear even if we still ran our 20 GW reactors from 2010. (we had about 15 GW max hydro + biomass, and max load 75 GW in 2024). Most of them would run in load follow though and would have to compete against the currently planned 160 GW large scale batteries most of the time. I doubt if Merz really plans to put 2 back on line, his party could have done this while they were in power up until 2021, right now it looks like some election strategy. But to end this on a positive note: The Efuels position lost ground in the discussion (subjectively) - I heard it less and less. Many people fell for using HVO instead though :/
@jonevansauthor
@jonevansauthor 2 күн бұрын
The best reason to do nuclear is because that's how we develop nuclear power stations and undirected or lightly directed research is how we improve science and technology. But we should clear up some of our planning issues in the UK though without compromising safety. I don't see an reason to build any nuclear station as long as it is expected to be an incremental improvement over previous reactors.
@SeekingBeautifulDesign
@SeekingBeautifulDesign 2 күн бұрын
Strange that the Musk/Tesla phrase "machine that builds the machine" isn't more of a global discussion. Machines that use electricity to build renewable electricity generators that lower the cost of electricity and manufacturing vs. Fossil fuel extraction machines that only get more operationally expensive as cheapest producing fields dry up, exploration costs go up as new sources get harder to find and extraction machinery manufacturing costs go up. Electrostate vs. Petrostate is well put.
@glike2
@glike2 Күн бұрын
Tariffs on solar PV and EVs is bad for progress on electrification maybe delaying a decade
@OnlineLi-y9u
@OnlineLi-y9u 2 күн бұрын
Devious host to say "proven forced labour" without providing any proof.
@RossBurrell-w8g
@RossBurrell-w8g 2 күн бұрын
And now LA is on fire 🔥 again, but don't let that stop you. Keep on debating 🤔
@RossBurrell-w8g
@RossBurrell-w8g 2 күн бұрын
And round and round we go. Great debate but! Nothing changes I think think Xi and Putin have had the best effects 🤔 Isn't that funny 🤔 🎉
@glennjgroves
@glennjgroves 2 күн бұрын
Did I get my wires crossed? No one in Australia is talking about repowering. The coal generators are so old they would have to be essentially rebuilt anyway. I would be shocked if repowering was more cost effective than just building new nuclear. And building new nuclear is expensive enough already.
@buildmotosykletist1987
@buildmotosykletist1987 7 сағат бұрын
The average reactor costs less than $8B and takes seven years. Eraring Power Station is being rebuilt.
@glennjgroves
@glennjgroves 7 сағат бұрын
@ Eraring is being “rebuilt” with a battery, nothing else. None of the generation is being rebuilt. Every nuclear power plant built in a Western nation within the last two decades has cost far more than $8B. Look up Hinkley Pount C, Vogtle 3 and 4, and Flamanville 3.
@michaeljames5936
@michaeljames5936 2 күн бұрын
Re The mood turning against the 'Green Movement' - I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I think the mass media, partly want you to believe that, but also 'EV explodes', will sell way more papers/get more views than 'Petrol is really flammable, leading to vast majority of car fires- Boffins say!' In recent elections, the Green Party in Ireland were wiped out at the polling booth (as has always happened to the smallest party in our coalition govts.), but those voting for the bigger parties, who had just spent five years in govt., with a Green Party in coalition, their voters also felt not enough had been done for the climate. So, the pressure to do more, is not always easy to spot.
@gronkotter
@gronkotter 2 күн бұрын
The Australia nuclear "policy" isn't to repower coal, it's building a new one nearby. It explicitly at the expense of renewables because it's way off in 2040-something, but investment is retarded today. Taxpayers pay for the nuclear that's late. Consumers pay for a lack of supply until the nuclear is built.