i love gregg's energy

Gregg, I read you loud n clear! Astounding clarity, Beautifull & Deeep insight. Fifth joint point is the blind spot, totally agree!

Great conversation. I just read "The blind spot" myself and found it very rich. I'm a physicist and this resonates with a direction I've long thought about, but didn't articulate. I wonder if either of you have looked into the work of Eugene Gendlin as another resource to provide a language and phenomenology for our direct experience?

Really good, especially towards the end. Please can you, in a video soon - John - specify 'agency': what is *is* to you, and just as important what it *is not* as you're using it. I hone in on this having asked several people to define their understanding of the tool (/word) *agency* and there's remarkably little convergence. This is deeply and far-reachingly useful since it's the buzz word of psychology and lots of other fields from circa mid-2010s & don't want it floating off into the nebulous. Thank you (and Chris & Gregg), as always

What forms of ...liberty, justice, and dignity.... will embrace and engage a greater ...sense, science, and salience.... with integrally greater ....technos, teleos, and theos.... coming forth and going forward? sincerely Universal Planetary Metaverse of ...Ecology, Economics, and Engineering....

iImagine there exists a Godly ...consciousness, information, and motive.... that generates ...time, space, energy and constructs.... for ...life, play and work.... to venture up through ...matter, mind and mu.... with a developing greater sense of ...values, venues, and virtues.... coming forth and going forward 🙏🏼

It's not real. The Right wants you to believe the left and it's "woke mind virus" have gone as extreme as the right with their maga movement. If the crazies on the left had anywhere near the influence as the crazies on the right, then we wouldn't be watching Kamala vs Trump, we'd be watching Cornell West (or someone like him, probably) up against Trump. Kamala Harris has the "woke mind virus" people upset, and yet she's still winning. I was once a victim of the right wing's ability to manufacture consent through coordinated and stochastic propaganda. I thought the left had lost it's marbles, but it's not real. It's amplified noise

To be great ancestors we need to provide livable, sustainable futures by realizing past, now, future is not linear, but omnipresent.

Garcia Dorothy White Mark Lee Kevin

Zeno allowed Plato to midwife, you're in a good tradition in which I think Kierkgaard was allowed by Plotinus to be midwife. Sensitive, yet strong.

paused at 9 min stories that they told...a legend of Canadian folklore on CBC radio, Mr CanoeHead as superhero after a lightning storm welded the aluminum canoe to his head as he sought shelter under it in the driving rain.

13:52 I think we should all agree to delete the last 10 years. 🤔 I wonder what I would have done differently?

Seen, known, and valued, by those who are important to our being as valued by ourselves, always a touching message for all of us to keep in mind, thank you Gregg, peace

Thank you for sharing your time, work, knowledge and experience Gregg, really nice job of bringing all of this into alignment, peace

So grateful to have learned so much from the work Gregg is publishing. This is an incredibly powerful series that I’d love to imagine more folks can really sit with.

Life makes life, mind was not before feeling. Feeling: knowledge of being without knowing, the baby doesn’t know it’s body it is surprised to learn of its hands, therefore we look for surprise and wonder that is removed with words to end the mind of wonder. I wonder where and why flatness could not be challenged and squares on a round sphere (colonialism) was so dominant in its perfection of abstractions out of the predominant nature of things, and those executed at every deviation from the square and metric, by geometry. Geo-metry, earth, grounded, common, sense. The three body problem, is the three mind problem, both are satellite and undiscoverable, especially in words. There is a maturity required of projectionism, futurism and discovery, these theological actions are ungrounded by competition and the tragedy of genetics, the stuff Nora Bateson complains about in religious lock step beliefs and clumsy attempts to ‘fix’, yet again repeated here without knowing the subject matter, only the objective propaganda of fear. An effective way to reduce fear, is to learn more, not less, or the use of conspiracy becomes a way of life, vulnerable to be swayed by spells. Politic of useful capture, an answer to every question with a satisfied abstraction. (Ambiguity, bipolarity)

“Wake up and stop ruining our future.” So well said and passionately articulated. Thank you, Gregg. I know this is a very personal issue for all of us and I commend you on being brave enough to say such radically moderate things here.

Love it, great editing.

I am so lost. Can anyone recommend some books or articles I can read as background for some of these ideas?

This is SO awesome!!!!! Absolutely great and quite thrilling!! Can I also see the top "Science" (the science emerging from culture on the UTOK diagram) as an ineluctable and universal "seeking" (as in Panksepp) - an intrinsic feature of what we are - socially embedded and participating in an extended effort to achieve interconnected consensus truth claims, shared propositional narratives and coherence within increasingly distributed and connected communities? Are we oriented as collective 4E/4P/3R organisms towards this "science"?

53 min it’s is like that

I am glad John understands it

Pleeeeaaase, a follow up conversation between you guys 😩

great ending, participation as forming a crucible for gold which is poured out, collectors who share vs collectors who don't. Thanks.

makes sense what Dempsey unfolds starting at 45 min or so, John focused on mind via cog learning sci and the cultural for symbolic learning which Dempsey gets into. Bringing in a physical component needs language definitions like what is being or moving in language, what is an object...noun, noun/verb combo, adjective/adverb combo? Where the moving is the being as relative would seem adjective/adverb as tip into the imaginal, from approximated shapes and undifferentiated movement (it all moves) as perspective flattened from higher/lower/closer to the imaginal verticality as cylinder only, rather than hemisphere and cylinder dancing as circle and that trading/flirting with sphere. There's some really awesome videos from JAY MOAP channel that might provide another perspective more physics orientated.

20:30 I wonder if Levin’s work doesn’t problematize the level distinction between “genetic information processing” and “neuronal information processing”? His work on bioelectricity makes it very clear that cellular communities are using gap junctions to communicate long before what we call nervous systems evolve. Bruce Damer argues that these sorts of bioelectric networks were probably already online at the earliest protocellular stages of life’s emergence. Seems to me that there really is no such thing as “genetic information processing” given that genes do nothing and mean nothing outside the context of a living cell, and indeed, a living cellular community.

I think of it this way: information is a means of measuring the world (in Shannon’s sense, of measuring uncertainty). We would not want to say that the world is made of measurements… but we might want to say the world is made of measurers!

truly philosophy is the voice of the unborn, and needs to speak for them as relevant realization

replace the US senate with NASA, the full expression of the two freedoms as base, each party having both of course which unfolds horizontally from the family of five which is afforded by three, the imaginal from the buffer duality, getting closer - not higher - as 3d as tree (bird flock) then 2d as circle, and into the imaginal with fire.

around 38 min the i-quad coin seems like the spinning top which can be separated into two cones that attenuate in different (vertical or horizontal) spaces for it to do so, so this is where in a triangle the base of two can afford the one that is like a spear tip into the imaginal, with that as both cycloid and sine at the 45 degree as it were. The wrong arrangement of the triangle where the buffer is not two, but one and the two are opposing dualities. Think Senate and the two left and right, the Senate should be the spear tip not the fight as hierarchy, that is something else. This is the marriage between the bride humans and the groom grass, where humans as disc extended by fire spear tip came from tree/human "three" dimension, onto savannah real difference as circle, seeming to go down in dimension but the base as buffer for the tip of the sacred cone as basic unit. We descend into the triangle of grass (most powerful as singleminded expression into forms of itself, the various types of grasses) and hierarchy inside that triangle absorbs the last of the grass power as the pack dynamics. The ruminant herd is second most powerful (keep your enemy closer) and the antagonistic actions produce the strong base for the triangle to spin into cone then match the cone from...the Sun, for us. Consumer based economic system needs scapegoats, hierarchy in politics unpinned, from production values ramping up and dark triad "emerging" as expression of loss of two freedoms, original base as cycloid and sine.

intelligence as the cycloid movement allowed by life as the shear pin, where the grooves in the shear pin are that cycloid, where it breaks. It seems the cycloid is a piece of the spin of the vertical shaft. For humans as a disc (like solar system) affording the next level outwards...why triangular groupings break a duality of couples, a buffer locally as two that permits the intelligence in the stress trigger to emerge, where one is balanced in the distress by the understanding of the other two, a triangular marriage of people instead of couples? Hey, I heard Gregg say it on the transcendental naturalism series...it's all about triangles John! just kidding. But also the herald, unfolder and scribe in dialog, or the medical industry with soothsayer dietician, mechanic surgeon, and entrail reader pathologist, in the wrong order so the mechanic is centrally placed. This is the possibility for movement along the silk road, perhaps, because it avoids the two world mythology since it has silence as the buffer of two, for one.

Great stuff as always, gents!

Ptolmec to Copernican and back, where Pluto might be the shear pin for the solar system, and the solar system is the pipe slid over the vertical shaft of the Sun. A sort of circular abacus for expanding the vertical pipe, which then needs pinning.

at 20 min or so Gregg mentions strong vs weak emergence, where weak submits to strong and unfolds a sort of computational complexity, if I got that right. The ear drum mechanism engages with sound, the tongue is exapted into language from a utility of an eating aid, the brain in between where the unfolding happens, and now that is returned into the environment thru language, but also volume of sound which can destroy the intelligence already there. If it does there's a breakage point. The UTOK model seems like it would work better if it was on its side, where the increasing complexity emanates not vertically but sideways, and needs pinning in order to stay with the strong emergence, and this pin breaks. The shear pin, which is cut as two balanced actions into three pieces. Note on how this works: imagine a spinning solid shaft as a source, a piece of pipe is slid over the shaft and of course needs pinning to move together. If the pipe and shaft are vertical, the pin is horizontal. The expanding layers of complexity are vertically positioned (not horizontally) as larger diameters of pipe over this shaft, which spins in only one way, one dimension of moving. The pin itself breaks when a future event tries to reach back, where the power of the source is threatened. The way of breaking is the strong emergence pipe does the cutting on either side of the shaft, which is a balanced action, where a central bit of pin stays with the shaft and two pieces extend the horizontal. Keep in mind there's the "other side" of the shaft so this is the model of UTOK currently, and I would argue this weak emergence goes horizontally not vertically as pictured. This is why birds didn't make it (to a "higher" level of intelligibility) since their intelligence depends on sound in the environment, as their brain. and this is easily taken away by noise. You could say humans broke that pin maybe.

I'm not sure if he understand how hard this change really is?

Thanks, very interesting, there is any chance that L. Ron Hubbard processes where motivated from Whitehead's knowledge?

Maybe the struggle is paid individualism and specialization, self help, self unshared agreement of duopolistic reasoning, instead of the time required to listen and change. I experienced a non conversation and fell asleep, what put me to sleep is the same repetition for 200+ years of not listening, but teaching the way. Wonder is removed with opinion, to see conscious, all that is known is the unconscious as the collective has no time or need to collect, but only lose time using endless references to gain status of other theories without practice. Feeling is before knowledge, no amount of words can discern feeling. Literalists have changed the dictionary as now Ai is reducing our ability with duopolistic predictive correction to make a non feeling world. ‘Digital’ of zero value. Describe sentience before attempting a dead end?

Very fun intellectual ride! If there were musical performances and a feat of skill or strength, it would have been perfect, but a great part of today's process for sure. I could imagine this conversation happening in a Star Wars settings on a far moon or space farring vessel heading towards something barely known but beautiful, but am glad it's possible even from across two offices in North America. ❤😊 Thx Matt & Gregg

Wilber said "everything is partially true" ... what I hear Matt saying is more along with what I say "everything true is wholly true in a partial context" which means that for every context there can be a development from falsities and errors, to a "whole, real truth" but it would still be context-dependent and hence, partial.

“Dear Hilde, if the human brain was simple enough for us to understand, we would be too stupid to understand it. Love, Dad.” ― Jostein Gaarder, Sophie’s World

I’m an avid reader of Prof. Maxwell’s books and papers.

Do you have a video where you go into more details about the energy/information singularity and its properties such that it can give rise to a universe? The lack of ontological clarity about that claim seems concerning to me.

How can you gain empirical knowledge of the implicate order if the platforms of empirical knowledge (e.g. spacetime) emerge out of it?

where's the fire emoji ?!

7:24 we can't explain being from the inside

We really need to find a way of talking about peoples 'internal' experiences, as well as phenomenal experiences, that scientists don't like or can't explain, as 'woo' or 'super-natural'. These are judgements placed on a subject that halts fair examination. Some things are crazy and not real, but the experience is real, and understanding comes through dialogue not ridicule. Great show as always.

I don't see how there's really a difference between trying to make changes for the future or just changing the now. It seems like different words to say the same thing.

6:50 graduation ceremonies and prom are maybe still alive

Here we go again 🤓🗒️✍️