1-1-1 Is TERRIBLE: A Special Ammo Analysis

Opinions on Special Ammo are as abounding as the number of crucible players themselves, but one thing most of us agree on is that 1-1-1 is awful for PvP. It's not fun, and is also horrid for Destiny 2's balance as a whole. In a TWID before The Final Shape, Bungie said that they were going to launch this system sometime after the launch of the expansion. Presumably they had reasons for this, but in this video I'll explain why I think they needed to do just a little more testing before that happened.
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[@KnownAsSys]

NEW CHARITY EVENT DROPPED, GO GET LIMITED EDITION EMBLEMS (or don't, up to you. there are some pretty cool ones though): tilt.fyi/EdQCT4x2Fc

[@legendxcarisso]

I just needs to go back to the way it fucking was. Like... 2 kills worth of ammo. Doesn't exactly solve the "die to get more ammo" problem except in Trials where you CAN'T revive, but for general play, who gives a flying fuck? At least everyone started on even footing. The meter system created a "haves and have-nots" problem where lesser skilled players would get stomped by sweatlords, and the "pick-up ammo" system is literally just the old system with extra steps.

[@gommyboi380]

I hate, hate, HATE, having like 10 special ammo (literally) and then dying to bullshit and spawning with 1 ammo. It just feels like theres no reason to use your primary especially in 3v3 game modes.

[@Harrison-zc3hu]

Lucky for you, pvp is and will always be trash so maybe they’ll keep messing with it?

[@pollyon]

honestly i don't know why they took away the transmat in 6's

[@Quelies]

Transmat was probably their best substitution for the special economy IMO. It was intuitive, gave you 1 ammo at the start of the game, like the rest of the lobby (unless you were unfortunate enough to join a match in progress) and you were able to keep track of the players who had ammo and who didn't (no one does it in 6's but like you had the option).

[@pollyon]

@@Quelies omg joining late with no ammo sucked haha, but yes you're right, the comfort of knowing you won't lose your ammo on death was nice too

[@Xarviz]

Am I the only one who likes the current special ammo system? In can finally enjoy and improve some shotgut play

[@yanisvilla7949]

While I agree it’s not as good as Transmat, the reasons for it being replaced by 1-1-1 were valid and Bungie said they’ll bring the transmat system back after restructuring it.

[@DonRobertoDeMuerte]

I’ll say this, for comp specifically I hate the 1-1-1 system. For 6s I think it’s mostly fine since it’s just pubs and nothings really at stake. Transmat wasn’t my favorite at first, but is now my personal favorite. The issue with transmat is the fact that you can’t really be a sniper player. Shotgunning is just the most forgiving way to play transmat so I can’t really snipe in a true competitive setting like trials without feeling a detriment to the team. Now it’s really only in the 4-4 games that that matters, but still it’s an issue. I’m not sure how Bungie can help build special weapon variety in trials and comp. It’s a difficult issue

[@Just_Russ]

The 1-1-1 system is just 1 special ammo, 1 trade, 1 respawn and all it does is keep the 1 kd average player happy, its so shit

[@Sam-pr9rr]

Bot shotgun traders are so annoying dude

[@Hofey]

Finally someone saying something about this. The meter system was the best imo. Bungie said the issue was lesser skilled players barely got any special at all and would even get more heavy kills. If they just turned up how much the meter was filled in death it would be a great mix between the 2. Something like 30-50% of the meter being filled on death if special ammo count =0 would be just about perfect imo.

[@NoBloons]

Fun fact: certain weapons spawn with 0 ammo. (Mostly fusions to my knowledge: Bastion and Jotunn mostly) Which leads to someone not having special at all while a shotgun player spawns with 1 and gets another off crates. Either all specials spawn with 1 ammo or no ammo. (Excluding trace, rocket sidearm, and glaive because those need more than a single ammo to work)

[@NoBloons]

Also yes, fusions are worse to fight than shotguns but both are OP Op? It cant be! I hear you say. Lets compare every special Fusion: Remain on target for the entire burst. Profit. Easy to use. Easy to learn. Easy to win. Shotgun: Get close to someone, press a button. Hope it don't whiff. Profit. Easy to use. Easy to learn. Easy to win. Snipers: Aim for a headshot. Pray the enemy doesnt have hc (they all have hcs) so you dont flinch too much. Get a bodyshot and die because primaries. Then try to scope a lane to get a pick only to get hit by a grappling hunter from the other side of the map. Swap special. Easy to use. Hard to learn. Possible victory Glaives: Either shoot two shots and kill (block while doing so or face the wrath of smg crutch) or find out if the enemy has a better connection than you while meleeing. (Better connection to server lets you melee faster btw). Easy to use. Easy to learn. Hard to win. Trace rifles: I uh. Point and shoot adventure game. Hope you kill them before they kill you. Hard to use. Easy to learn. Decent winrate. Rocket sidearms: shoot the enemy for a third of their health. Shoot a wall because the rocket hitbox is bigger than your crosshair. Get shotgun aped anyway. Hard to use. Hard to learn. Hard to win. Erianna's Vow: Do the roar. *First glance headshot* *arcane melee throw* *kill* It's an easier but weaker sniper. Easy to use. Decent learning curve. Good wins. Forerunner: Sit in the back of the map like a coward. Three tap someone that can't even see you from that distance. Easy to use. Easy to learn. Good winrate. Anyone have any objections?

[@DashieFan5]

It's so stupid because fusions aren't necessarily an outliar, it has more range than a shotgun but it needs to charge up, shotguns are more aggressive but lack the range of a fusion, and snipers aren't the best up close, I have no idea why they single out fusions specifically, I would say it's a bug but it's been in the game long enough for me to think otherwise

[@NoBloons]

@@DashieFan5 agreed. The only reason Bungie did it is because the majority of the fanbase uses shotguns and because fusions easily counter it; they complain.

[@fotis3v480]

Fusions kill in like 0.5 seconds from 18m with a bodyshot. They are THE OUTLIER and the most c4ncer low skill weapon in the game. Even a 0.9 can kill you with a fusion.​@@DashieFan5

[@DashieFan5]

@@fotis3v480 that charge time makes a worlds difference sometimes, there's a reason why shotguns are still really popular despite what you just said (would still be the case if they actually got ammo too) Regardless of who is right or wrong, why don't they just tone down fusions instead of giving them ammo? They did it with GL's

[@kylebush5934]

The most I've enjoyed Destiny PVP in years was with the special ammo meter system. It actually felt rewarding imo

[@prettysoIdier]

Yup. As soon as I got used to special meter in comp, retaining unused special, and earning it, no swapping to a double primary to lose, bungo changes everything again. Long gone are the days where you hear the enemy use miss sniper shots and know, it’s time to push the lane. Now it’s like you said unpredictable.

[@user-rz4ww1zy5d]

Is it just me or was PvP actually fun for the few month before final shape when the 3v3 map pack came out. I was having so much fun in that sandbox and now I feel like every aspect of pvp is worse. Weapon variety, definitely connection, and dying to these hunter's ability spam feels absolutely terrible.

[@myonlyfriendtheend4958]

It was for me for sure fairly even distributions of classes you could use autos smgs hc pulses hell jade rabbit topped the trials charts a couple of weekends This meta has been such ass of either hunter wombo combo and you can't play the game every 40 seconds or healing turret trench warfare Hell I'm a titian main and did go flawless during cringeplex but Jesus was it painful

[@ThatGuy-rz6tv]

The initial meter system from a few months before Final Shape was my favorite time in PvP. Primaries were the main form of gameplay, forcing players to either be good with one primary or drop special entirely. Also, you could tell if someone had a large amount of special based on how much of a streak they’ve been on. Maybe I just liked it because it was fun to stack up fusion ammo and then run around like it’s a primary, but the primary gameplay was just more fun in that era.

[@bartoniuskrunk2366]

I like the fact that your teammates cant take your ammo. It was a problem back in the day

[@ianmills6260]

Transmat is a flawed system, but 1-1-1 is awful. There is just no special variety in Transmat. Everyone just uses shotguns or fusions. I don't know how they can fix that, because it's not like shotguns are broken, it is just a format problem imo.

[@honorguard7616]

Maps are close ranged, so those two immediately stand out

[@literallynobody1515]

shotguns are broken

[@fotis3v480]

​@@literallynobody1515you are just horrible at the game. Shotgun are the only balanced weapon in terms of special with clear counterplay.

[@literallynobody1515]

@@fotis3v480 blah blah don't care. bots straightlining to end fights immediately with no counter other than trading is the definition of a crutch. sorry you suck and defend your crutches

[@JamesTheHuman]

Imo this issue is exacerbated by SBMM and lobby balancing. I preferred the system of you spawn with 2 and picking up a brick from a body gave you 1 + 1 if you had a corresponding scavenger mod

[@fotis3v480]

Because you are bad at the game and you wanna main a special. Like most of the community,funnily enough the Moment special got balanced together with abilities on checkmate the players i used to struggle with in trials ( i know cause i blocked em to know when I'm playing them ) kept getting 5-0d till the end of the dlc.

[@JamesTheHuman]

@@fotis3v480 or if I wanted to play with nothing but primary I'd go play cod. Removing special/ability uptime makes destiny boring

[@fotis3v480]

@@JamesTheHuman Delusional, nothing fun about unbalanced sht killing you with no physical counterplay. But when you are happy trading 1 for 1 and call that success no wonder. Legit nobody who's actually good at the game like the ability spam and special spam cause it makes the game stressful and 50/50.

[@mythe6669]

I don't like the 1 1 1 system at all and idk why they nerfed snipers yet again when they already struggled with the previous meter system. If you peek a sniper lane with a (often shortrange) primary or even a shotgun / fusion, you should be punished and not manage to win that fight by doing 1 hp worth of damage and sending the sniper into seizure screen shake territory. Connections are also horrendous this season even in "prefers connection" modes which makes me wonder just how much connection is preferred over skill that clearly also still plays a role. Snake draft lobby balancing somehow seems worse than what we had before and with both systems any 3rd party site would tell you one team had a massively higher chance of winning this "evenly balanced" match. At this point randomizing the teams would probably create even teams more often than their balancing systems. Don't even get me started on ability spam and the spray and pray meta. Idk why extreme ease of use weapons like autos and pulses also need to have not only competitive but sometimes even s-tier ttks. Auto weapon spam meta is what always happens when that is the case. There needs to be the downside of a slower ttk for the extreme ease of use imo.

[@purp9646]

Ahh the 1.0 kd ammo system. get kill die repeat. great gameplay

[@ocean_0602]

The blink transition at 6:41 was smooth af.

[@TheMax107]

Original system was the best

[@32___]

bros gameplay makes me feel good about my connection

[@haydenchu58]

Imagine how broken halo multiplayer would be if everyone spawned with a sniper rifle with one bullet or another power weapon with a bullet. That is destiny pvp. You would think Bungie of all people would understand map pickups

[@Quelies]

Glad to see my favorite content creator using blink, it brings a tear to my eye

[@prettysoIdier]

5:54 dude. That transition was nasty!

[@planelattice2783]

How do you expect me to pay attention to you with the amazing edits happening in the background?

[@itshadouken]

If Bungie would nerf body shot shotgunning, and force head shots. Reduce range of both shotguns and fusion rifles. They could go back to spawning w 2 special and getting 1 ammo from anyone who you kill w special. But currently it’s just too easy to kill an entire team w a shotgun, you don’t even have to aim, you just slide and pull the trigger and it magically works 90% of the time. Fusion rifles are way too easy to one hit from range. A shotgun should have to be within 2 meters and fusion 10 meters to one hit. Bungie would never consider this but I think it would work.

[@KnownAsSys]

I'd love to see a system where shotguns aren't the magical solve all for CQC, but until melees get fixed/nerfed/removed that can't happen. Right now shotguns are the only thing keeping the game somewhat skillful inside the auto-lock melee dome

[@honorguard7616]

Sweet business says hello

[@Mugiwara2k]

I’ve been screaming from the mountain how much I HATE the new ammo systems (both 1-1-1 & Meter) since they changed it.. It’s literally killed all the fun of PVP for me. I personally didn’t think there was any major issues with the original system, since everyone was on equal footing like you said. They just need to bring it back.

[@samthebagman4643]

I feel like the transmat system was the best cause it reduced the uptime of specials, but that doesn't mean specials should all around be taken away. Transmat could easily be combined with the ammo crate system so that when you pick up a crate, it adds points to your transmat, so it ups the time you have special from normal transmat but not completely monkey brain like the crate system

[@xClownpiece]

this season has felt horrible

[@kitsabumi]

I feel like special ammo is too scarce. I don't care how it's delivered, but I've run double primary since its inception because its just too valuable having two range options at 100% reliability. I may not get some of the crazy kill streaks, but I die less. Although, that does make me forget to utilize special ammo in PVE sometimes. Lol.

[@KnownAsSys]

Double primary (especially with how insane sidearms are) is super underrated. I'm honestly surprised more people don't use it

[@timesoldier810]

Why they didn't use similar to D1 system. Get special only from crate(and match start), you keep it between deaths ?

[@wtfox8206]

I remember being highly skeptical of the meter system because I thought I'd never get any heavy. Turns out I'm way better with a primary than most of the people I match against

[@pollyon]

though i would prefer generous amounts of special, because i go for clips, nothing sucks more than being on a triple then running out of ammo, which is why i try to get as many primary kills as possible before using my snipe, because most of the time i only have one sniper shot, 2 at the very most

[@flamingscar5263]

trasnmat really was just much better, idk why Bungie ditched it, while special rn is in a better state I would say then before any of these changes started, its just not anywhere as good as transmat

[@Johndis_C.]

When you swap to your shotgun but have no ammo (I was going to get the kill anyways)

[@vanilla5930]

I'm honestly really thankful for content creators like you who address these recurrent issues so that bungie can ignore them again for the 12489025203rd time (i really do appreciate the effort a lot, and it's nice seeing someone else agree on how bad the ammo economy is, just fucking sucks that bungie never listens)

[@SpaghettiTop]

I really like the meter system. Feels like an objective on the side that rewards you for doing things for the team

[@xerxes2568]

Just bring back the original special system

[@kidneystone1345]

2 on respawn, no bricks, it was so simple, and they fucked up in the most complicated way posible

[@jacobruiter592]

As a fusion main with my bias. I think shotties were the counter

[@silver2797]

It's kind of funny, i don't care all too much about the 1-1-1 system not because i dont think it's bad, but because of the fact that i just have an issue with pvp as a whole and they saw special ammo and was like yeah this is the problem here Any talk about the annoyingly bad maps being in the comp playlist that only serve to hinder the experience? What about the over abundance of ability usage specifically with hunter but all 3 classes aren't faring any better? How about the absurdity that is Storm's Edge? Overtuned Exotics? You know what how about we take a step back, Do we wanna keep ignoring the absolutely shit hit reg that this game is just plagued with? nothing? ok Bungie keeps trying to my crucible more and more competitive yet can't even address the basic ass issues of the game just broken from every angle you look at it either make it a casual fun broken experience or make it strictly competitive, stop trying to do this stupid inbetween nonsense they keep striving for

[@KnownAsSys]

I should just screenshot this and upload it as a video lmao. Every time I try to judge an element of the sandbox I have to dissociate it from the fact we aren't playing in sand, we're playing in muddy dirt

[@ddoogg88tdog79]

I loved the old system and the meter system I liked how i could hoard with the meter

[@KYPspikes]

Special meter should come back and the amount of meter you need or ammo you get should vary on which special weapon you're using. Snipers and grenade launchers get 2 ammo per transmat. Fusions get ammo a little faster than shotguns. Shotguns stay where they are.

[@Unstressing]

tbh revert all special changes and let the blues joust at eachother constantly with max special

[@michaelox3430]

nahhhh the revive no ammo is SO JARRING, I use glaives and the most annoying thing is dieing and then my blueberry teammate reviving me in comp, which at my level I see no benefit to reviving someone other than creating a potential 1v1 into 2v1 (assuming I don't die in the animation of being revived). I honestly 99% of the time want to revive by myself so I can at least spawn with some ammo but the revive leaves me with none and then no crates around leave me just so confused as to why revives are even a thing anyway

[@cheetahofthewind13]

6v6 is where I hate this system the most, it already been a teamshot sweat fest there and it meant to be the casual playlist and this system just made it 10 times worse Its not great in 3v3 but i can at least put up with it more there as 3v3 modes should be the ones you have to sweat in

[@reszolve3685]

Sir you just cooked a 5 course meal! Thank you

[@Tixrok]

Im not going around that corner they have a shotgun. (Goes anyway) White flashlight -

[@KnownAsSys]

Every time

[@YANASaysHi]

oh my god he spat.

[@Golet234-2]

i think the best solution is to use crates like in D1, always respawning with 1+40% of whatever you had when you died (the 1 guaranteed adapts to your weapon type of course, things like glaives would get 2 shots and unique cases like Eriana's or Forerunner getting more)(except fusion rifles, they can't pick up ammo. trying to do so kicks you to orbit.)

[@KnownAsSys]

Would be worth a try for sure. I honestly think 100% crate sourced ammo would be ok if it wasn't dropped on death

[@huntergang7858]

1:19 nice

[@Edges_]

They way it was before way perfect but I think the meter system is the worst indefinitely

[@punishedchad8733]

gonna be honest as dogshit as the meta was for the 1st half of year 6, i actually got back into it during season of the witch, and my best friend got back into D2 after his hiatus (pvp player at heart) about 2 weeks before they did that huge update to player health, special ammo, abilities etc, and as them messing around with the ammo every other week it seemed like was a tipping point for me to just not bother(other than instances where i want a gun/loot/etc). Granted the special system at the time was not optimal I still can't say any other system has been better.

[@josephabreu1626]

You’re a hunter main, so I hate you and hate you guys having special ammo, but I also hate not having special ammo so I agree you are cooking

[@strugglelll6952]

Ok I do agree that this new system is one of the worst we had, however I don’t fully agree that this pushes any major warlock or titans abilities into many pvp engagements. Keep in mind these abilities are difficult to some or most players to deal with but they’ve been adjusted on the cooldown except for hunters ( don’t play this down you hunters mains know is true), right now the prismatic hunter has the best of both worlds, move ability usage than the warlock and better melee than the titans and again every class has a different ability cooldowns, sure you can use fragments and aspects to reduce the cooldown, but is more effective on hunters, Ik most or some will disagree but that’s my opinion feel free to share yours. Thx

[@KnownAsSys]

I was just talking about rift/wall in a vacuum. You're definitely right about hunters having an insanely good kit with prismatic

[@RpgGuyVerified]

Primaries need some more love simple as that

[@bannedmann4469]

Yeah, they clearly don’t play test a damn thing.

[@nicklafave351]

If bungie would stop tinkering w sandbox and 5% here or there and actually make content and change.

[@connormcateer7125]

I wish they’d find a special ammo system, stick with it and tidy it up as needed. They just kinda “do stuff” with all 3. Mess around with em. I’m a PvE main at heart and I like pvp but it’s so overwhelming trying to get into it. Like what’s NOT going to change by next week. How am I supposed to manage ammo or make a build when there’s like 3 ways I have to worry ab it. I could run with the top of the meta but I also don’t want to do that and play semi meta or niche meta to force me to develop specific skills that crunching on the top meta wouldn’t allow me to do but Idek what those guns or classes/subclasses would be. As a PvE main it sucks. It feels like the door to entry is constantly shifting and I no idea where it even is.

[@KnownAsSys]

Yeah, the shifting function of different core components of crucible almost warrants its own video essay. I can't even imagine what it's like as a new (or even average) player who doesn't constantly read TWIDs Patch notes, and constantly test stuff. You'd simply have no idea how stuff interacts

[@joris_db]

Here before this video blows up

[@Ash-bx6kq]

We just need clash to be the only gamemode in comp

[@Ballsackeruuuuuu]

I miss old elimination

[@JohnnySfondi]

Another imminence truther? You love to see it

[@user-od5eu8qb7q]

i hate pvp cause all cheaters and i hate when i have to play to advance in quests

[@ceruwer1646]

transmat ammo ruined the game so bad, good thing bungie gave us the special creates, hope the remove it in trials.

[@antorico2gaming774]

Take me back to D1Y1 or Forsaken because this game is so boring and anti skill now. Solis video mate.

[@ExpertRam]

Forsaken? 🤣 Yeah totally the highest skill era of destiny

[@antorico2gaming774]

@ExpertRam Of course. Now you can't jump in the air, abilities get worse every year, comp mode/map selection is a joke.

[@ExpertRam]

@@antorico2gaming774 AE isn’t what is was on launch, nerfing abilities is good actually, not gonna disagree with you about comp that game mode has some issues. It’s just that D1Y1 bounced from broken thing to broken thing, too many extreme outliers that forced you to use specific guns. Forsaken had one eyed mask, do I even need to elaborate further?

[@antorico2gaming774]

@ExpertRam one eyed mask was nowhere near broken to what bungie has added since shadowkeep and onwards. for one it required a kill. AE will foreber be inferior to the old icarus system, especially on controller.

[@horrorfan117]

PvP is just garbage in general.

[@goldenfox2178]

*Removes all ammo from PvP*

[@KnownAsSys]

Crucible, british edition

[@TN29571]

Almost anything that results in less special ammo jousting is a win in my book. But im a double primary main so of course id think that..maybe the game is just too diverse to please everybody's very specific tastes. Oh well, we persist.

[@GedTV]

The gameplay makes me wish I was playing PvP on console again. Everyone is just so incapable of playing the game. PC lobbies are noticeably more intelligent.

[@kindacringe7189]

Me agree big big much

[@Zeta1127]

1-1-1 is terrible, and Transmat seems to be the best path forward.

[@LizardWizard403]

Destiny pvp is awful lol

[@Samsonfs]

How anyone can play this game with legitimately the worst balance and hit detection I've ever seen is beyond me, it's been bad since day one of destiny 1 and has barely gotten better since lmao.

[@yanisvilla7949]

@@Samsonfs sounds like a skill issue bud

[@Samsonfs]

@@yanisvilla7949 cry more, destiny PvP is dogshit and the community has been dead for years, the developers couldn't give less of shit about it either. The servers and hit detection are famously bad.

[@yanisvilla7949]

@@Samsonfs bait used to be believable. Nice try fed

[@max73916]

if you’re dying to fusions in 2024 you should retire

[@bananakin1573]

Just hit the like button for you, praying it works 🙏🙏🙏

[@whynonbelieversareidiots8543]

excuses im blind and I win every game 😎

[@KnownAsSys]

This guy's cooking