1, 3 and 5 Step Sparring is NOT good for beginners

www.iainabernethy.co.uk/ When I point out the issues with 1, 3 & 5 step sparring, it’s not unusual for people to respond by saying something along the lines of, “Yes, but they are good for beginners”. I totally disagree. They are not good for beginners, or anyone else. It’s important to understand that the practise was not a truly traditional one, nor was it one born out of the pursuit of function. Instead, the practise was an ill-advised attempt by karateka in the 1930s and 40s to ape the practises of judo and kendo (where such drills do have a useful role and are much better constructed).
Whilst I have no objection to people doing such things for historical interest, exercise or enjoyment, claims of them being a functional form of training have no validity. It should go without saying that people are free to practise as they see fit. However, in this video I explain why I feel the practise is one that karateka with a functional objective would be better abandoning. Agree or disagree, I hope you find the video interesting.
All the best,
Iain
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[@lesbubka]

I can’t remember when last time I done them, my teacher drop them probably around 1998 in favour of life sparring snd drills. Great clip as always :)

[@makenjikarate]

Brilliant points, I agree with every single one of them........ But you forgot the most important one... 1, 3 & 5 step sparring are boring AF

[@erlangga59]

Hahah, true

[@themartialartsacademyofmar8012]

Thank you for this Iain. I very much agree. I recently had another black belt visit our Dojo for a couple of months, and he was obsessed with single step drills. He thought they should be the back bone of our training. He even complained we weren't doing very much of it. I disagreed with him, as I didn't see how the single step enabled you to finish a fight in a chaotic environment. I prefer to have my students do a combo of sticky hands, bunkai, kumite etc. of ever increasing pressure from non compliant training partner. Intensity varies on experience. I have found that singe step can be useful, but they need to be used as a tool to get you into bunkai, sticky hands and active resistance. This type of approach has really helped us develop our Karate into a method that works well for us vs fixed drills.

[@ambulocetusnatans]

Please do another video on the Motobu drills.

[@matthewbaumann630]

Motobu is the man. I wish there were more videos about Motobu Karate.

[@NYKgjl10]

Never was too much of a fan of step sparring drills as to me, its unpractical. No one, and I mean no one will ever punch in a zenkutsu dachi stance or will ever move robotic as most beginners will do.

[@pawned79]

In my Wado Ryu, the Kihon Kumite you’re referring to starts around level 5 (Purple Belt), and they continue into the black Ranks including knife and sword. Along with kata, of course. Comes from Ohtsuka’s Jujitsu background.

[@kampar82]

Recent experience here, I've done 18 months of Wado Ryu, very traditional education and 18 sessions of modern European jiujitsu. I've learned more about distance, timing, control, aggression, and live resistance in those 18 sessions than the 18 months.

[@marcelmorton8997]

I agree with you. to be fair, when i started training i was taught that. but since i started my school 10 years ago i eventually removed 1, 3 and 5. I'm glad to see we evolved as a club in that way

[@Tanuki-Ha]

Two reasons: 1st. You get a sense of you partner initiating the attack, thus you'll be able to progress from go no sen, sen no sen and sen sen no sen. 2nd. You learn to harmonize with your partner's speed, distance and intensity. Sure both can be achieved through more practical drills as well... I totally agree with that argument 😅 Like, here's a drill I let my white belts do: Tori throws light, then progressively hard punches to wherever they feel like in somewhat of a rhythm. Uke is with the back against the wall, actively or passively blocking however they feel like until they can't take the punches anymore and then cover, crash and counter. The kids love it and they learn to stay calm under fire. Way better drill am I right? But I still teach gohon, sanbon, kaeshi and ippon because I feel like that's my expertise and I can't come up with an entire new system of Karate by myself, to teach. I'm admiring Andy Allen for doing so, but I'm trapped in my incompetence. Edit: Awesome comment section btw 🤘🏼

[@dobo9150]

Amen, re: comments section.

[@hydroturd]

that's an interesting progression with that wall drill

[@Tanuki-Ha]

@@hydroturd Thank you! It's a combination of two drills. First one is from Bas Rutten and the second one is just your usual cover, crash & counter tactic you see in Urban Combatives and the like. EDIT: Bas Rutten's drill: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6DXk39md8SKns0 As I was searching for a good example of the cover, crash and counter tactic I found this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZ-tZoaVhcaUhsk I think it's brilliant and very similar to what we do. But I got my original inspiration from Bas Rutten so... But I think great minds think alike, because Iain has his own version in the context of Naihanchi: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJvYfpuOqt94oMU

[@hellawaits6544]

You described exactly my experience. When I was going up through the ranks, we did only forms without applications and one steps for 4 months and then when we reached the rank to spar, "okay, go at it." And this was a class of 8-9 year olds. As you can imagine, the results were disastrous. I didn't learn a single thing about how to spar over those first 4 months, and neither did anyone else. Long before I saw your channel I had dropped one step sparring from my curriculum and replaced it with sparring preparation drills. One Steps do not transfer to live sparring at all, except in practicing no contact strikes on a standing human being, but then you might as well just do that! I've found drills that involve live interaction between two sparrers is far more transferable, as it's literally practicing the very things you'd do in sparring, at least on a basic level. Seeing your channel has only confirmed my thoughts, and I'm glad I'm not the only one!

[@atvanael]

That’s the biggest reason I quit judo after going over to it to pick up some grappling skills. Our club sparred a lot, and sparred hard, but we were never really taught how - we learned one or two techniques and practiced some throws and things with partners, but never seemed to drill in a way that adequately bridged the gap from learning the mechanics of a technique to actually using it on someone resisting and trying to throw back. As a beginner, the sparring actually felt dangerous a lot of the time because you were thrown in with rudimentary breakfalling skills and one or two throws and then had to avoid having your head taken off by young bucks with more experience and no settings between “off” and “120%”, who’d try to slam you through the floorboards even when you were doing step-by-step stuff. I left because I felt like I got hurt at a higher rate than I actually improved anything.

[@jujitusuka]

@@atvanael : to be fair that’s exactly the same when training in karate, when you get to ‘light’ sparring you get treated as the higher belts kick/punch bag. When I first started we didn’t do step sparring just the basics then let’s go sparring! No wonder the dropout rate was so high…..smh

[@urDM2nite]

How can I super like this video? It’s so frustrating that is is boarder line impossible find your kind of karate. I just quit it all together and do personal training. No good but as a father of three I can’t waste my time with practice I can’t get behind.

[@tatissitat1346]

Iain, as a Wado man, what's your opinion of the wado kihons and ohyos?

[@liorsilberman6757]

Interesting. Our "ippon kumite" simply means that uke will only attack once: nothing is prescribed for tori. Tori can step back, crash in, sidestep, etc. This progresses to "three-step sparring" in which uke will throw up to three attacks in series. Again tori can react in any way (including after the first attack). Both are live semi-compliant drills: neither side has prescribed actions, and uke's strikes are on target, but uke will not resist after their prescribed attacks are countered. These fit well within a progression that leads to sparring.

[@laperrablanca1]

Very interesting video, Iain sensei. I think that if those drills can be good for beginners, it depends in the way they are taught and practice. First, they must be "realistic" in the meaning that the attack should be 'real' i.e., penetratating. In our organization, the one that initiates is encouraged to make a full committed attack and only the "defender" should control his counter. Then from a fixed pattern of movement we go to a free choice where to move and what to do as a response. Then we move to, for example, jyu ippon kumite, a one step drill while moving freely around. We also practice randori, free light sparring at a lower speed and intensity, to improve flow and confidence, and then we go for the free full speed sparring. Three point drill, sanbon kumite, is done very freely and can be very challenging, putting emphasis in flow and aggressiveness. Of course, if you stick to pre set drills without moving gradually towards free sparring, they have no benefit and even be detrimental. Thank you!! P.S. I'm first?

[@laperrablanca1]

No, I'm third...

[@jujitusuka]

I agree with you, we also use step sparring to get used to strikes coming at you it helps to build muscle memory. As you progress the strikes become faster with more intent until it’s full on, at that stage you’re at the point of not thinking it’s instinct and surely thats the point we’re all trying to get to, isn’t it?

[@laperrablanca1]

@@jujitusuka Exactly

[@necromanzer52]

Every time that music kicks in, I always think it's about to play Just Like Heaven by The Cure.

[@SenseiEmmett]

Step sparring is something ive never practised, ive seen others do them and have seen DVDs of one steps etc, i never seen the point of it. I do agree that drills should have a progressive path and one thing should lead to another, i have seen a lot of drills that have no benefit.

[@AkademiaFudoshin]

I agree. We replaced this with bunkai for Ten No Kata.

[@sebastiandavid2546]

Not one of Gigo Funakoshi's best additions. Would be interesting to know what you think about his other additions (side and high kicks, low stances, the one-strike one-kill mentality (and footwork - see Naka Sensei) which looks very Kendo-ish, the half-facing stance (hanmi dachi), and the Taikyoku kata. Also, was he the biggest influence in distancing karate from its self-defence orientation or would that be Nakayama after him? (Or maybe even Gichin Funakoshi earlier by removing grappling?)

[@hydroturd]

Unfortunately it is also popular is some Goju schools. I've done karate for several years but recently started in goju. They have about a dozen step sparring drills all just based off a straight punch. If it were bunkai, it's be great. Instead it's "hold your arm out there" stuff.

[@thomasharrison6367]

Totally agree, Angles and grade appropriate Kata Bunkai are far more important to EVERYONE! Also to be more fluid and transitioning using the stances how there meant to be used!

[@DevilDogMartialArts-]

I get Iain's point but I disagree a bit on this one. I think the issue is not whether one steps are useful, and I believe they are, but what is taught in them and how this is graded into other training methodology. Taken in isolation, one steps are fairly useless and many people don't go beyond this, or if they do, it's into things like 3 steps which are useless. 1. There's usually no endgame taught in one steps. In my program I've scrubbed roughly half of the original one steps I learned and replaced them with more functional techniques. It's okay to evolve these over time and they don't need to be set in stone. I use them to standardize and introduce my students to some basic judo, standing subs, some fundamental movement like slipping and roll unders, entries and exit strategies, and advanced kicks like turning wheel kicks. Most of what I do in one steps is used to lay a groundwork for me to show these things in other areas using the one step as a reference. So when I show head and arm choke to kosoto gari in a one step, they already know the basics of it and when I show it as countering using the luring principle from a philly shell to draw out an over committed attack and dropping to the body lock, I can show them where throwing the arm over the shoulder now gives me this same technique and the concept clicks into place very quickly, and the familiarity means they are more comfortable applying this live. 2. One steps need to be graded in training. You should be progressing technique from introduction to isolation to interaction to integration. When you are a beginner, more of your time should be spent in forms, one steps, and basics but as you progress in level and as you progress within a technique, most of your time should be spent in live training. Often, I see people do these for reps and any time you rep for numbers instead of another learning objective you are wasting your time. Once they learn the movement, you move on and reinforce it with other drills. 3. Graded training should include taking these techniques and bridging them into other more applicable techniques under increased pressure. I often use the basic one steps then retrain them under high percentile techniques like jab cross or certain grips. From there we add movement into it and I might do this with constraints on either uke or nage. Then these are used in a drill that I call 3 step chess (I go, we both move, you move, we both move, etc). Then it's done in sequential attack drills like Aikido randori. Then it's applied in correlation with another technique. For example, my first one step is an inside knifehand block to an inside out knifehand strike to the neck. I later practice this against a jab cross. Then I play with adding a kouchi gari, and if they step over I use the frame of my knifehand to drive them back to a side kick. Then I try this in 3 step chess. Then I try to hit it in my sparring. If I can't hit it there, I assess and identify why it's not working and I go back to one steps and add that dynamic and work through it. Another example is a turning scissor throw I use in a one step, then work through it to a flying scissor, then practice it as 4-11 entry and use it in sparring against live opponents. The technique and intensity should evolve, but it starts in one steps. Eventually, what I've found is almost all my one steps can be used in sparring and the ones that can't I'm either working through or looking to scrap. One steps don't exist in a bubble and are part of a larger training methodology. They are just a static position. Much like in BJJ if I'm going to teach a triangle choke to a white belt, I don't try to do it in a live roll. I have them practice on a static partner under static conditions. Then they drill it with constraints on the resistance. Then they apply it in live rolling. Feel free to check out my training methodology on my site if you are curious. www.kovaltaekwondo.com/training-methodology

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Thanks for the comment and putting the opposing view. YOU WROTE: “One steps don't exist in a bubble and are part of a larger training methodology.” My counter would be they do exist in a bubble because nothing they “teach” is applicable outside of those drills. I have NEVER seen anyone attack or defend, in any form of combat, in a way that comes close to what we see in those drills. Therefore, I strongly believe it to be much better to train in ways that do form part of a holistic and structured whole. There are much better ways to train in a way that are progressive and do develop usable skills.

[@DevilDogMartialArts-]

@@practicalkatabunkai this Thursday I’m dropping the first 10 of the new one steps I’m using in my program. These tie in with my overall system. Each 5 deals with different high percentile attacks (after the first 5 forward punch, it’s 5 jab, 5 cross, 15 jab cross, etc) designed to teach either a concept, movement (takedown, clinch, sub, etc) or has a direct sparring application that we work in live drills. I know you are a busy guy, but if you are interested, I’d encourage you to check them out and if you would like a friendly discussion about it I’d be happy to host one sometime on my channel because it is an interesting topic

[@johnnyworzel3741]

My first Sensei, years ago, did no one-step but plenty of free sparring even with beginners. I took time out and now train in a school which does loads of step sparring. I’m not a fan, but it’s that or train elsewhere and there’s no alternative close to me.

[@geocyclist]

Could someone provide a link to a video that has one, three, or five step sparring? I'm not sure I know what they are.

[@jujitusuka]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/e527g41tmdafZ5Y you’re welcome

[@Vincentorix]

I'm a beginner and I feel the 3 and 5 step makes no sense. This is because it is a non practical experience as nobody moves in a choreographed sequence. The one step kinda makes sense as it can be used like a drill for block and counter ing different attacks.

[@arishadows6285]

I wanna ask how can use basic blocks to redirect the enemys force against them ?

[@peterderpanda2922]

Depends. Do you want to let the enemy hurt themselves? No idea. Or do you want to use the enemies energy to your advantage, eg through throwing them off balance etc? Try by not blocking, only redirecting the attack past you. If they have a bad control this might be enough, otherwise you can try to give them some more momentum with a pull. Remember the footwork to step out of the way.

[@CJ-uf6xl]

I must admit, step sparring might not be "good" training, but it's hell of a lot of fun, and tbh you see it in Boxing, kickboxing especially French, Cuban and Russian styles. For me, there is a very specific timing element to Karate, something that can be smothered in more fluid sparring, and in drills it's implied through instilling a scenario in the students mind but without the actual urgency you get in step sparring it's very hard to "teach". And if you think about it, every Karate guy who has done well in combat sports to this day started out point sparring. As ever brilliant video. Many thanks!

[@mooseven]

One thing worth considering is that, for beginners, these stepping drills simply teach them how long their arms are and how to move while staying one arm distance away from your opponent. These things might seem very basic for experienced people, but for absolute beginners, you've probably never had to accurately gauge how long your arms and legs are compared to someone else's, where your knuckles end up when you throw a punch, how far you have to stand from someone to stop them hitting you etc. If you can move five steps and still be able to land a punch on someone, you're some way towards properly judging the distance at which you can hit someone while staying at the outer edge of their reach. It seems to me that a lot of the basic things in karate that people complain "don't teach you to fight" are actually not supposed to, but are really basic proprioception, movement, safety or observation drills designed to prepare you for later training. They're just wrapped up in some karate trimmings to keep people interested.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I find myself disagreeing with that. The student needs to learn the distancing associated with the delivery of powerful strikes, and the cues to deal with such strikes. As per the video, the distancing (and flow and timing) associated with x-step sparring is not the same as any form of combat. There are much better drills to teach distancing in the early stages.

[@AyeJordan7]

Ppl like u who think like this usually can’t fight so💀

[@erlangga59]

I think we just neef to add on top of the 1,3,5 sparring, a 2 person drill, and probably introduce free techniques into the kihon ippon soarring ?

[@travisbecker6567]

KZbin only lets me hit the like button once. There should be a higher tier of endorsement button somewhere that I can mash for the message in this video. Training time is precious and limited - practicing useless skills, or methods that actually take the practitioner backwards is more frustrating now than it was when I was young and had time and energy to burn. Step kihon should be recognized as a useless form of practice that is detrimental to the development of martial skill.

[@juhaandersson6975]

Iain, when considered in wado context, would you say Kihon kumite / Kumite Gata is as useless as, let's say, Sanbon kumite in your opinion?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

They are better, but still not good (from a functional perspective) … and I say that as someone who teaches them and practises them (the 10 kihon gumite). They don’t do straight line retreats and both hands are active or up in guards (which makes them better), but the timing and flow (or lack thereof) are still miles away from any form of combat (so those issues remain). I have an interest in them from a historical perspective, so we do get our higher grades to learn them for their historical value. However, by that point they have done many other forms of more functional training and have already developed usable skills. We don’t use them as a step to progress to other things, and we don’t claim functional value for them, but rather as a standalone set of drills that are nice to know and fun to learn. It’s similar to how we view Motobu’s 12 drills (which had a huge influence on the kihon gumite of Wado).

[@juhaandersson6975]

@@practicalkatabunkai thanks for your thorough reply. Your arguments are always well thought.

[@Koryuhoka]

Totally agree.

[@premiermartialarts1067]

Agree completely

[@darynhobden]

My opinion on 5 step and 1 step kumite was similar to this until I went to train in Japan about a decade ago.

[@jujitusuka]

You can’t leave it there….what changed? How was it different? What made you changed your mind?

[@darynhobden]

@@jujitusuka the focus is more on the attacker. Can you attack and hit someone who knows what you're attacking with. How relaxed can you be? Can you move and strike without any "tells"? There's a lot more to it than that. But there's a start to consider.

[@jujitusuka]

@@darynhobden : I don’t know what I just read to be fair…..step sparring, you know what’s coming irrespective of anything else….we’re as relaxed as we can be and we’re going full pelt with full intent ‘tells’ are irrelevant at that speed it’s instinct and the move and strike is predetermined in any case, so again how is it different in Japan?

[@nightmarish-array1372]

Does anyone know what sparring looked like in 1900s Okinawa?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

We don’t know what it looked like (no photos or videos), but the descriptions we have describe it as close-range (often starting from arms crossed) and permitting a much wider range of techniques than today: iainabernethy.co.uk/article/kata-based-sparring

[@JxBx80]

To me, 1-step sparring is just mini-katas with a partner. Same thing with Hapkido; they put a lot of emphasis on memorizing choreographed moves in order to teach individual techniques. I've seen Vovinam's forms that are 100% with a partner (very cool, actually). It's a method of teaching, but we all know that everyone learns differently so not everyone is going to like 1-Step "sparring" or even Kata.

[@diegofrancoleon1609]

I imagine that the benefits of step sparring (kihon kumite) is just to practise the correct technique. In Spain the Spanish Karate Federation made mandatory to do it in Dan tests.

[@AyeJordan7]

Then explain why so many can’t fight🤣

[@Tetsubo64]

Thank you for your presentation and I agree with much of the logic of what you said, but not your judgement that the Yakusoku Kumite are worthless. I have evaluated many YK in other systems and like you fail to see any systemization or congruency to reality-based training. For this I agree. However, I had a dissimilar experience in Okinawa when I learned in the Seidokan Dojo of Shian Toma. Of note some members of this system are very tournament oriented and find the YK useless for their own reasons. Others in this dojo that took up the practice of Tuide (joint locks and throwing) see a greater value in the YK. Not everyone learns the same. In researching our own eleven YK I have found their collectively origin perhaps comes from the 20-30 as you say, but after WWII when the Americans were taking up the art, we see systems finally including them in many Okinawan dojo syllabi. My understanding is they have always been a part of the older art (Tode/Ti) but in a different and more combative form. There was a back washing from the Nihon Karate-Do Renmei (JKA) on the Okinawan chapter to have Yakusoku Kumite. Some Okinawan dojos took up the JKA's recommendation and adopted mainland recommended applications for this while others preferred to bring forth already established applications from their own ancestorial sources. Regardless, the modern forms of step-sparring all increased the engagement distance, introduced wider stances in its performance, and retained their Okinawan standing grappling with finishing strikes but also included a couple of atemi only techniques usually in the front of a syllabus. The following is a short commentary on the 11 Yakusoku Kumite surviving to modern times from the Okinawa Seidokan Shorin Ryu and Motobu Ryu systems as taught in the Shian Toma in his Seidokan Dojo. YK Format is designed for the beginning learner and dojo safety. It was designed from older combative applications to become a blend of civil and combative. The format being so far away allows a beginner to see what is coming but it also teaches the pupil to learn how to read the body and the closing engagement distance. Over time a second level of the same applications is introduced, the engagement distance will be adjusted closer to perform standing grappling and eliminating those faults you talk about. This at its start is a beginner learning platform and not necessarily to train tuned-and-ready self-defense system. For lack of a better explanation, it is a learning platform to learn how to learn self-protection and it will be evolved in a student's training life cycle. Kata was learned only after learning the basic Yakusoku Kumite in the Toma Dojo. Overview of Seidokan's Yakusoku Kumite 11 Applications 1). The applications are all right-hand dominant techniques, meaning the dispatch is with the right hand and entry and control are usually performed with the left hand or left and right together in timing. Ninety percent of the world is right-handed; however, we would train them left-handed as well, on occasion. 2). They were systematized on teaching entries clocking initially from initially retreating #1 to various angles positioning to the side of the opponent#2-#4, and then going straight through #5 the opponent. These first five applications and the sixth dealt with dispatching the opponent in their relative attack position. Then they recycled a second clocking for applications #6-11. First retreating then various angles going to the side, then through the opponent as before. This second set of applications will now travel the opponent to a position away from their initial attack position. The counter fighter learns how to travel their own weight and someone else's through pain motivation and joint compromise. 3). As application #1 - #11 progresses, additional principles are added in. This layering of principles and body movement options is a learning platform to build a base of understanding later in learning kata performance and applications together. It prepares for a much richer kata experience than just performance learning without applications and no basis for which to understand them. The lessons learned in the YK will be carried forward for pressure testing applications derived from the system's 14 Katas. 4). The evidence our 11 YK is systematized means they were not miscellaneous techniques just thrown together but a starting platform of graduated learning by which the lessons learned should be applied to all other derived applications as a quality control measure. Application #1 capitalizes on most everyone's first reaction that does not have any training. When initially confronted with something coming at them, everyone will cover and back up. This natural reaction is now utilized as the starting point to teach controlled environment and attack initial karate programming of body movement and principles. This back up initial response and now use it to teach lengthen the attack line thus increasing the reaction time window. So, if you are surprised, you have more time to react. Application #2 applications side steps and teaches to avoid the attack by slipping the punch. This is teaching the practitioner to be more aware and learn how to get good at having a punch miss you and introduces the principle of collision as they are struck coming forward and the counter fighter is stepping off to the side. Application #3 adds the element of grappling control and folding the base with a kick. I could go on, but successive principles (ile. capturing the weapon, manipulating the base, lowering the opponent's level, compromising balance, collision, pain motivation, etc. ), are added to teach a beginner principle of movement before they learn a kata. 5). All YK have an Omote and a Henka variation. First teach the Omote to both youth and adults, then later the Henka to mostly adults as a second level that teaches them how to look and decipher kata applications. The second level identifies and relates two additional things. The introduction of change body (tai-sabaki/tai-kawashi) if not already presented in the application; and the touch-tells already presented in the basic level. These will alter the applications to be closer in standing grappling with strikes. The touch tells are when you are touching something on your body with your hand or foot to the opposite side of your body, you are touching that part on the opponent. These have crept into our version of YK to later cite them in kata. 6). The collection of our 11 YK techniques then becomes 11 families of techniques that when we go and decipher our kata, we can relate them to one of those 11 and create a catalogue of techniques. Essentially, these 11 YK are the periodic table of applications, principles, and body movement. These 11 YK and our 14 empty hand kata provide a way for us to learn our sizable portion of the Ryukyu-Okinawan Martial Applications treasure trove. The style I practice and propagate is Okinawa Seidokan Shorin Ryu. These 11 YK came into the Seidokan Dojo of Shian Toma from the Okinawa Chapter of the Japanese Karate-Do Federation. Okinawa Seidokan does not practice three and five step sparring. I came to understand that if the counter-attacks were practiced correctly in the first case there would be no three and five step sparring. I know this is an egotistical statement, but it is what was passed onto me through the Chotoku Kyan systems. To practice past one-step is training the practitioner to fail at their technique to allow the engagement to continue. This is just my experience. Thank you for reading this long response. Donnie Hayhurst, Okinawa Seidokan of Florida USA.

[@monitor4728]

It was called San , Dan , Gee ( probably not the correct spelling) in Goju ..absolutely soul destroying drill 😳

[@stupidfrog2205]

Too many Karateka are scared of sparring. Hard sparring is king, light sparring is useful, the "step" sparring is a waste of time. Fairy contact light sparring is good for beginners IMO until they learn how to actually move and time things. You wanna learn to swim you gotta get in the water

[@erlangga59]

Doesnt 1,3,5 step teach you distancing/ maai ? And teach you understanding of your effective weepon ranges? It also Removes fear of getting hit, teaches control of your faculties, teaches you to read your opponent, accustoms you to physical enggament, tewxhes you to block late, and teaches muchimi. It may not link direcrly to actual kumite or actual figbting, but it does teach key fundemantals. Imho

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I would disagree as per the point made in the video. They can’t progress anywhere and are so different from any form of actual combat that they are a martial dead-end. There are much better drills that actually do develop usable skills in a progressive way.

[@ThePNWRiderWA]

I have to disagree on this one. The reason is done. Is for neuromuscular training and neurotransitioning. It’s to train the body to become accustomed to the movements. It’s more akin to peripheral training. I would agree it’s not for combatives and similar to the Chinese Gung fu 2 person forms. They are fun to learn and such but not fighting.

[@boreddemiurge6216]

Then it’s a waste of time

[@AyeJordan7]

@@boreddemiurge6216 facts plus your training to defend against completely unrealistic attacks

[@practicalkatabunkai]

YOU WROTE: “The reason is done. Is for neuromuscular training and neurotransitioning. It’s to train the body to become accustomed to the movements.” The problem is motions in that form of training are nothing like any form of combat. Therefore, anything “learnt” through doing them is unapplicable. Far better to train in progressive ways that do resemble combat.

[@DavidBarnwell876tkdja]

I wonder sometimes if they were really trying to ape Kendo? Wasn't Japan involved with wars around that period? Russo-Japanese war and the military action in China prior to the US involvement in WW II? I wonder if the one step punch wasn't a simulation of weapons used in early military conflicts, example, the military sabre and bayonet thrust? Maybe they were simulating an attack from a sabre thrust or more likely, a bayonet thrust from the long rifles they had back then? If so, that would explain why the 1 step concept was not immediately ridiculed. Maybe it really did resemble an attack that people of that period were used to?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

The vast majority of karateka of that time were not active soldiers, but university students. Even then, I doubt many active soldiers at the time experienced bayonet thrusts (very little combat being hand to hand), especially done in sets of three to five with a step between each, and certainly not enough to have such a profound influence on karate. Such practices definitely come from karate’s desire to be a modern budo - like kendo and judo - and hence the practise was aped along with formal suits, belts, ranks, the addition of “do”, etc. It’s an historical anomaly that, in my view, should be dropped from karate.

[@DavidBarnwell876tkdja]

@@practicalkatabunkai Yes, I can see that but didn't Funakoshi mention teaching soldiers in his autobiography? I think many of those same uni students became soldiers prior to Japan's invasion of China and definitely before and after they entered WWII. I can see Gigo wanting to assist in that training phase. It's just a thought of mine. I'm not wedded to it. I was just wondering if that could have been a forgotten origin for that practice. Maybe a result of Gigo's wanting to Japonify Karate and sort of use Karate stepping punches as an easy/cheap way to simulate bayonet thrusts en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_30_bayonet Like I said. It was just a thought. I'm pretty sure you are right. But, I just wanted to show where I was coming from. Thanks for your gracious reply.

[@DavidBarnwell876tkdja]

@@practicalkatabunkai I see your point. I'm sure you're right. Thanks for your input. I very much appreciate it.

[@bashlivingstonstampededojo882]

I agree I've never been a fan of 1 3& 5 step drills I could never see how it translates into any combatives or sparring a lot of people disagree with me and still practice it to each his own and I respect people's opinions but I also see it as a marshall dead end and I see it as a dead pattern

[@mikke7155]

Btw... if you really think about karate and practical self-defense. the whole species and system makes no sense. But many peoples Karate is a hobby to move the body, sweating and ...karate practice hour is a social event 😂 One or 5 steps...so what.

[@berndlurk5548]

Another relic like Funakoshi's kumite kata. I very recently found out that JKA separatists in Germany do exactly that kind of X step sparring for kyu grades on tournaments. With points on who does his job best and everything. Don't ask how it works, I don't get it.

[@Burvedys]

I concur, bunkai is enough. Like there was no kihon in Okinawan karate.

[@user-oi8yu9yb5p]

I hate them thats why im here but its still a mystery how my freind who isnt trained at this for years still manage to make it work im just gonna focus in grab defense and knife defense now

[@michaelbailey9330]

Wrote a long winded response, but I figured I'd post the tldr version instead. 5 step sparring wasn't part of my training. I googled them and I'll admit they didn't look compelling. However, I had the opportunity to try a Uechi kumite and I found that to be IMMENSELY beneficial (even though my Sensei also felt it wa useless). So is the argument that Funakoshi's kumite are not useful (I'd agree), or that all kumite and traditional two person forms are without benefit? Because if it's the latter, I'm afraid we might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

1, 3, and 5 step “sparring” as not of any use in my view. I’ve never had anyone show how they actually help improve combative skill, or why karateka should do them in preference to other practical forms of training. Sparring and two-person drills are vital, because they have a demonstrable function. In my view, 1, 3, and 5 step “sparring” simply waste valuable training time and take us nowhere.

[@michaelbailey9330]

@@practicalkatabunkai I have neither the experience nor the wisdom to debate your conclusion. Even my Sensei agrees with you. The first thing I learned about the kumite was that it was useless and terrible. All I can say is that running this drill ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKaQmaKrr89qrLM ) at full speed and power helped me immensely with processeing, reacting and positioning at full speed. I was able to turn off and just flow, something that is of particular difficulty for me. It helped me though some blocks and I wish it had been part of my training and not something I only did for an hour as part of a testing requirement. This is obviously an n=1 and I cannot supply a reasonable mechanism why it would be of benefit. And there may have been drill from which I could have derived supervisor benefit. Sadly, that drill was not part of my experience. So purhaps my basis for comparison is flawed.

[@erlangga59]

They are usuall sloppy or too agitated, or too stiff, no flow, no undetstanding of hatd/ soft or contract/ expand, anf poor coordination

[@rpd7573]

To mention kihon ippon, sanbon ippon and gohon ippon kumite and infer it leads to no where and not mention jiyu ippon and full jiyu kumite makes your argument a poor one.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I think you have missed the point of what I was saying. I did mention progressive live practice in the video. The point is that X-Step sparring has a unique timing and distancing, so it CAN NOT progress anywhere. Everything they “teach” (bad and un-usable habits) is irrelevant to any form of combat. They are a martial dead end. There are much better drills that are suitable for lower grades that do progress to consensual and non-consensual combat

[@kangethemungai2787]

I disagree too,, I think and have found it useful in introducing sparing to beginners to avoid unnecessary injuries in the long run

[@AyeJordan7]

Wow💀

[@neiltaylor1765]

Have to disagree, first principal of self defence *you talk about this in other videos* don't get hit. They teach you how long your arms and legs are and how far is to far/close, yes for higher grades they're near enough pointless but for beginners

[@jamesmiller1038]

I agree that distance management is very important. But can't you teach this with much more realistic/ benefitial drills that step sparring? For example, measuring distance with your partner, ensuring you are out of range, your partener moves freely around and you use basic footwork to maintain that safe distance. Alternatively, one person freely attacks (e.g. lightly throws out jabs) while the other person evades and covers. You can also drill simple covers and entries into the clinch to control the distance and avoid getting hit. All of these can be done slowly and gentley but can also be progressively built on. Maybe I've missunderstood? But I think these kind of drills are more useful for teaching distancing and more realistic then step sparring which can teach bad habbits like moving back continuously in a straight line, pulling your hand to your hip with nothing in it, defending against karate attacks that you won't see either in a self protection scenario or in competetive fighting etc.

[@neiltaylor1765]

@@jamesmiller1038 fine for higher grades, not so much if your teaching 20 white belts, fir younger beginners 1 step to show and teach distance is by far an easier and safer way to show distance control than a freer sparing drill you would use with higher grades it also acts as a great way to practice targets for attacks and using basic blocks. Yes as a higher grade you use other ways to block/counter but it acts as a building block

[@jamesmiller1038]

@@neiltaylor1765 Thanks for the reply! I'm afraid I still disagree. Why teach a way to block and counter that won't be built on? You can very easily and safely have one student slowly throw a realistic punch towards another and the other student defend it realistically. A basic parry that we all use in sparring is an easier movement then something like a 1950s style age uke "block". A helmet guard or high cover is simpler than a soto uke/ uchi uke "block" and it's the same movement wheather youre a white belt drilling techniques, a black belt sparring or, god forbid, protecting yourself. And again, step sparring teaches bad habbits like moving back in a straight line. For example, instead of teaching white belts something like step back age uke, step back soto uke, step back uchi uke, mid level punch, wouldn't it be more benefitial to say, cover and crash forward vs a realistic punch, use that age uke to frame, deliver a knee and then break away. The example is just random but its the same number of movements as the step sparring, it teaches distance management (covering and crashing to close the distance, framing to get correct distance for the knee, breaking away to escape out of range) and it's realistic. If we're talking really young beginners who don't have the best motor skills yet, I still think the 2 person drilling can be realistic. You can practice targeting with realistic punches and countering with realistic defences. For instance, even just a step drag into range with a jab countered by a parry. Or one of the students throws a slow, open handed slap towards the other student, who covers the slap

[@neiltaylor1765]

@@jamesmiller1038 teach Big - do small if you teach/learn small movements all you end up with is small movements that don't work, yes a traditional block is useless in a realistic scenario but the use of your hip, arm rotating, change in direction are all taught/learnt at a low grade and practiced with these drills, then they can be shortened in real life rather than relying on a small move working and being technically correct, I can do ½ ¼ inside block with my arm but get 100% of the effect because my body moves correctly through practice here, learn big and do small is always more effective than learn small and rely on it working

[@jamesmiller1038]

@@neiltaylor1765 I think I get your point but I respectfully disagree. I don't see how you couldn't learn correct body mechanics (hip rotation, change in direction) along with the correct technique. Boxers, muay thai fighters, mma practicioners etc. all learn and train parries and covers in the way they use them practically and all of those combatants pull those moves off effectively in live sparring. By contrast, a karateka who would attempt to use a "block" as such in live sparring or self protection may run into trouble because of issues with interpreting that motion as a block i.e. using an exagerated preperation motion, bringing an empty hikite back to your hip and so on if they've spent alot of time practicing it that way. I also don't think it's always a question of big and small. For example, an inside to outside block isn't just a larger version of a more practical technique. Covers, gate blocks, bicep ties to jam limbs etc. are probably the closest practical equivalent to how an inside to outside block is often interpreted in step sparring. But all these motions are pretty different to the "block" not just smaller versions of it. There are different interpretations of this "block" that make more sense, e.g an ear rip, a forearm to the neck

[@blockmasterscott]

I dunno. For me, I like to teach one step sparring to beginners to get them used to the idea or view of a punch coming toward them. Also they get to practice defense in a very slow and safe way. I’ve always felt that step sparring is not meant to be realistic but rather to get beginners acclimated to moving around an opponent. Kinda like teaching your kid how to drive in a football stadium parking lot when there is not a parked car in sight.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

The problem I would see is that the “punches” in 1,3, 5 step “sparring” are nothing like the punches in combat. Therefore, they get used to something they will never experience, but are not used to what they will actually experience. Far better to train in a way where the punches are done realistically. They can be slowed down for beginners and the speed gradually increased over time. There is no need to resort to the “x-step sparring” format; indeed, I would say it is counterproductive as it takes training time away from useful drills.

[@markbober9781]

All forms of sparring are a joke. Free sparring is also extremely detrimental to self defense training.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I think it depends on the type of sparring. Live practise of self-defence scenarios and related skills is definitely a good idea: iainabernethy.co.uk/article/how-spar-street-part-1-iain-abernethy iainabernethy.co.uk/article/how-spar-street-part-2-iain-abernethy iainabernethy.co.uk/article/how-spar-street-part-3-iain-abernethy

[@bratacus3]

By that logic, NO skill is transferable, and no one can ever defend against any attack unless one has practiced against that precise form of attack. No variation in distance, timing, speed or other variable could be defended against. In fact, only actual practice fighting could be deemed useful as preparation. I disagree. One, three, and five step sparring can impart transferable skills, and they do provide an elementary sense of timing, distance, and application of force.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

No two physical situations are exactly the same. However, if one has experience of dealing with similar experiences that involve the same overall methodology, timing and distancing, then that experience and related skills ARE transferable. Boxers spar in a way that reflects a boxing match, and then they are prepared for boxing matches. No two matches will be exactly the same, just as no two sparring sessions will be exactly the same, but the experiences are close enough to be transferable. However, if a judoka entered a boxing match based on the skills and experiences gained through judo randori, they would not be prepared because those experiences are radically different. The massive issue with X-step sparring is that it is like NOTHING else. The methodology, timing and distancing are 100% UNIQUE to X-step sparring. It therefore has transferable skills. YOU WROTE: “No variation in distance, timing, speed or other variable could be defended against.” Variations can definitely be dealt with … but a complete, total and radical switch to an entirely different distancing, rhythm, timing, etc can’t be. This is why X-step sparring is a martial dead end. All it can make people “good” at is X-step sparring because the distancing, rhythm, timing, etc of anything functional (various types of consensual free-sparring, self-defence, etc) are radically different to the point where it is not a variation but a total change. YOU WROTE: “In fact, only actual practice fighting could be deemed useful as preparation.” The form of practise needs to be similar to what is being trained for. X-step sparring isn’t similar to anything else. As I say, it’s a martial dead end. YOU WROTE: “One, three, and five step sparring can impart transferable skills, and they do provide an elementary sense of timing, distance, and application of force.” Unfortunately, it is the wrong timing and distancing for anything functional. Better to train in a way that reflects the situations one is training for. All the best, Iain

[@erlangga59]

I've never seen a karateka who skips the 1,3,5 be good at the higher lever training like kumite, like kata based sparring or two person drills.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I’ve a class full of them :-) We ditched that practise first chance we got and have had nothing but positive benefits. I find it to be a waste of training time, and the increased time spent on fuctional drills has made them much better at all forms of kumite.

[@erlangga59]

@@practicalkatabunkai i agree with the funcruon based training. But dont ditch the 1,3 ,5, they are still useful for istilling the basics. True they dont't serve as a bridge to free kumite or real fighting, but they are uaeful for developing the basics,-- mind, spirit and body, learning to brave an attack, control flinch reflexes, practice aim of technique to the right targets, composure.