#1 of 16: PAKISTAN: ORIGINS, IDENTITY, AND FUTURE

Pervez Hoodbhoy in conversation with Shaheryar Azhar. #1 of 16 episodes.
-- Why this book?
-- About the author
-- The book's architecture
-- Ancient India
-- The Muslim invasion
The international edition (Routledge) is available from www.amazon.com... , and the local (Pakistani) version from foliobooks.pk/...
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
o Front cover endorsement by Noam Chomsky
o Back cover endorsements
o Acknowledgments
o About the author
o Foreword by Christophe Jaffrelot
o Why this Book?
o Charting the Labyrinth
- Myths of a nation’s origin
- Exclusivism as philosophy
- Was Partition accidental?
- The book’s expeditionary map (Parts I-V)
o Part One: Long Before The Two Nation Idea
1. Identity formation in medieval India
- The herd instinct
- India without nations
- The Sanskrit controversy
- Muslim invasions
- Mughal era purifiers of Islam
- Conclusion
2. The British reinvent India
- Colonialism quietly sneaks in
- The Great Mutiny - a watershed
- Demoralized Muslim ashrafiyya
- Exception: the United Provinces
- The Muslim predicament
- Modernity impacts Muslims
- Modernity impacts Hindus
- Ways begin to part
o Part Two: A Closer Look At Pakistan’s Three Founder-Heroes
3. Founder I: the lonely modernizer
- Early years
- It’s okay to eat mangos
- Metamorphosis to modernity
- Siding with the British
- An unabashed elitist
- The non-communal Sir Syed
- Sir Syed communalizes
- Sir Syed’s mixed legacy
4. Founder II: premier poet-preacher-politician
- Everyone loves Iqbal
- Biographical sketch
- Philosopher or just philosophical?
- Iqbal uses languages selectively
- Iqbal on faith versus reason
- Iqbal’s physics/math criticisms
- Iqbal’s “higher” communalism
- Iqbal on women
- Iqbal on theocracy
- Iqbal on blasphemy
- Iqbal and Sir Syed compared
5. Founder III: liberal-secular-visionary?
- Did Jinnah have a plan?
- Anticipating dependence
- Did Jinnah not want Pakistan?
- Jinnah - the man
- Did Jinnah want secularism?
- Jinnah fuses politics with religion
- Jinnah and the Islamic state
- Jinnah’s Shia problem
- A master tactician not strategist
6. Jinnah trounces his Muslim opponents
- Maududi - Jinnah’s nemesis
- Azad - the prescient cleric
- Bacha Khan - the peaceful Pathan
- Who won, who lost?
o Part Three: Postnatal Blues
7. Stubborn angularities I: Bengal
- A snapshot of history
- Mocking Bangla
- The road to separation
- Punjab still doesn’t want to know why
- Bangladesh overtakes Pakistan
- Final reflections
8. Stubborn angularities II: Balochistan
- A shotgun wedding
- Baloch identity emerges
- Changes since 1947
- Too rich to be left alone
- CPEC and Balochistan
- The secession question
- The way forward
o Part Four: Five Big Questions
9. Was Partition worth the price?
- The no-Pakistan option
- Socialist utopia rejected
- Mobilizing the Muslim masses
- The winners
- The losers
- The cobra effect
10. What is the ideology of Pakistan - and why does it matter?
- Ideology defined
- Hindutva ideology
- Pakistan ka matlab kya?
- The weaponization of ideology
- Resolving the ideology conundrum
11. Why couldn’t Pakistan become an Islamic state?
- Warmup: a Christian state
- Who speaks for Islam?
- Qur’an and Islamic state
- Islamic scholars on the Islamic state
- Model I: The Medina state
- Model II: Maudoodi’s Islamic state
- Model III: The Taliban state
- The caliphate’s undying appeal
- The ummah and pan-Islamism
- What created political Islam?
- What if Pakistan becomes an Islamic sharia state?
- Is a liberal sharia state possible?
12. Why is Pakistan a praetorian state?
- The Establishment defined
- Bankrupt political class
- A once apolitical army
- America’s junior partner
- Strong men make weak countries
- Wars of choice
- Cross-border jihad - a failed experiment
- Courting the blasphemy-busters
- India under martial law?
13. Identity crisis: I’m Pakistani but what am I?
- Inventing an ancient Pakistan
- Telling Hindu from Muslim
- State imposed identity
- Cultural orphans
- The first Pakistani
- Arab Wannabe Syndrome
- My name is Ertugrul
- Citizens and subjects
- Price of prejudice
- The overseas Pakistani
- Folks: here’s what I really am!
o Part Five: Looking Ahead
14. Three imminent physical perils
- Climate change
- Population bomb
- Nuclear war
- Prognosis up to 2047
15. The paths travelled post-1971
- Experiment One - Vengeance
- Experiment Two - Nizam-e-Mustafa
- Experiment Three - Enlightened moderation
- Experiment Four - Hybrid regime
- Why the experiments failed
16. Replacing the Two Nation Theory
- End legalized discrimination
- Spread the wealth
- Pakistan not Punjabistan
- Uncage the women
- Give skills don’t brainwash
- Cool down Kashmir
- Send army to the barracks
- Epilogue
o Index

[@satyamxyz1093]

Good discussion. However, I don't agree with your comment that Mughals were the first rulers to bring India under one kingdom. Before Mughals there were several kingdoms (e.g., Ashoka, Kanishk, Vikramaditya) who not only brought the entire country under one kingdom but also they extended it to far beyond India's boundaries right up to Afghanistan.

[@dineshchandel350]

All the Muslims in Southwest Asia are of Hindu origin. The Muslims of Pakistan should not forget this fact and hence their identity is that of a Hindu.

[@vs9324]

Mother India may or may not have been a virgin but Pakistanis are unable to agree even today on who their fathers were. The Turks or the Arabs or the Mongolians?

[@rajnikantraval5941]

Dr hoodbhoy , all Muslims were hindus converted to muslim faith afterwards. Sanskrit is the oldest language of india which were followed by our Rishis and called our God's language.

[@ala7515]

Dr. Hoodbhoy, I'm looking forward to reading this book. Just a few thought experiments: 1) What if Din-i Ilahi sustained post Akbar era and flourished in the subcontinent; how the subcontinent would have been different? 2) By the start of 18th century before British arrived in India, the Mughal empire was almost replaced by the Maratha empire and to some extent by the Sikhs in Punjab. The Mughals were just the titular heads of Delhi. If the British hadn't arrived in India, the Marathas and Sikhs would have ruled the subcontinent. Most likely the subcontinent could have been divided based on the princely states and would ended up forming European union-like polity.

[@sanjithkmemon8525]

Dr Hoodboy. When muslims under jinnah sliced away a part of India do you think it did not hurt us? Or are we supposed to be free from hurt? Werent you hurt when bangladesh parted? If you did, then why cant you feel our hurt? Hindu nationalism is only a reaction to pan islamism.

[@VedPrakash-vf7or]

A very interesting and informative discussion ❤. I have listened to Dr. Hoodbhoy many times but it’s for the first time that I heard Sheheyar Azhar . Couldn’t believe someone speaking such a good English across the border. Very well coordinated interview. Looking forward for the next episode.

[@kanchhediachamaar9289]

The Greek historians around the time of Alexander the great called India Indoi.

[@abhay_cs]

Prof Hoodbhoy in his usual mood. Thing is, Hindus did have a sense of identity across India. Al Beruni distincly says that there are two places that no Indian will allow him to visit (no foreigner can enter). Can you guess? It is Kashmir and Kashi. What is common to these is the shared religion and that very Hindu sentiment that a foreigner will "corrupt" that holy soil.

[@nasirmustafa2492]

Our identity is defined by our language. I speak Punjabi so I am a Punjabi, those who speak Bengali are Bengalis. Religion doesn't define our identity. Religion guides us about the life in the hereafter and the relationship between the two lives.

[@averagebodybuilder]

Religion doesn't define your identity. It defines mine. I am first a Muslim and then a punjabi. Not the other way around.

[@virendraSingh-je3sx]

So, you all speak Indian languages, hence you are Indian. Even Urdu was borne in India

[@abhishekinfra]

Sanskrit is like Urdu, whose grammar and syntax largely originated in India, but some words are Arabic, Persian or Turkish. Similarly, it's true that Sanskrit, Russian and some slavic languages have some common words. Example : fire is "Agni" in Sanskrit and "Agon" in Russian. It means that both descended from some common Indo-European language. But Sanskrit's grammar was formalized in the Indian subcontinent. Panini, who formalized Sanskrit, lived in what today is Pakistan. The concept of a unified land called Bharat Khand (or Bharat) is mentioned in the Vedas, Mahabharat and Ramayana. We're certain that Gandhaar mentioned in Mahabharat is present-day Kandahar. The idea of a unified kingdom of whole of Bharat was always sought after and even achieved by Chandragupta Maurya, Ashoka, Prithviraj Chauhan (only north and Central India) and more lately, the Marathas. However, the sheer size of the subcontinent made it very difficult for any one ruler to hold on for long. So, there have been smaller dynasties like Hoysalas, Chalukyas, Cholas and many others. Like China, India is a civilizational country. Over centuries, many dynasties tried to consolidate our respective vast lands with some success. Only in the 20th century, did both countries unify under their respective banners. India though, was unfortunately partitioned. Bharat varsh and Hinduism are like the Greek and Roman civilizations. Ancient and polytheistic. But unlike the latter two, Bharat and Hinduism survived the assault by Islam/Christianity due to the sheer size of Bharat.

[@merebaap8370]

Excellent as usual. Mr. Hoodhhoy. A much needed perspective of history. Love from India.

[@Rosemoon938]

Well, the ancient Sanskrit, which may have come with Aryans may not have originated in India. However the sophistication and evolution of Sanskrit very much originated on Indian soil by Indian genius scholars like Maharshi Panini who laid down the complex, sophisticated grammar of classical Sanskrit. Ancient Sanskrit in which Vedas were created is very different from classical Sanskrit, in which Vedantic literature like Upanishads, Sankhyas, Bhashyas, Shruti, Smriti, The Gita, several poems, plays were later written. Sir, you may want to believe that your sources of research was perfect, but that is far from reality. Before even the Indians, it was Germans who did extensive research on Sanskrit and its literature. Kindly try to source German research also if you don't trust Indian scholars on the subject. Sir, you are a brainly scientist, rational thinker, but your hatred towards Dharmic civilization, which evolved on Indian subcontinent is obvious. You try to negate or belittle every thing of beauty, which came from people of Dharmic civilization on Indian subcontinent. In contrast, you glorify achievements of "Muslims" from 9-11th centrury, lumping all the followers of Islam, from Philippines to Albania and Spain and for some intellectual advancements that the Syrian, Iraqi or Labenese followers of Islam made. In reality, those practicing Islam made some scientific progress - not because of Islam but inspite of Islam. Islam and science are opposites, actually. Your credibility of neutral, objective observations is highly compromised in this latest book, maybe because you hate BJP/RSS. You are free to hate the latter, but at least don't twist reality to customize your hatred.

[@SaurabhSingh-pp6ys]

Sir Sanskrit never came from outside. It was originated in India by Aryan Migrants who probably came from Southern Russia or Region above Caspian Sea somewhere around 1800 BC

[@djsunshine1]

One way to understand the evolution of a society is by studying the evolution of the language. Just like DNA it evolves like a life! As a matter of fact all conscious thoughts happen in a language! Having said that one can argue that the most purest version of the language and grammar will be... where it is likely originated! For example Arabic spoken in Pakistan or India would be less pure than what it's practiced in Saudi Arabia! As a fact the purest form of Sanskrit in its also as an evolved way happened in India! For example Vedas...that originated at least 5000 years ago. Saraswati River vanished almost before 8000 years or more! There's geographic proof on the ground! In Mahabharata it's described that this Saraswati River vanishes in some places and comes back out in the other parts of western India...and now we know it has vanished. The point I am trying to make is...that there's no question that Vedas & the language of the Veda is the oldest...and purest! Sanskrit in Mahabharata is an evolved Sanskrit...from...Vedas. Both happened in India.... You are a progeny of that people & language! Nation was called 'Bharat Varsha'...in those days! Occupiers who wrote the history described it as a 'Nation'...for their own convenience! By labeling it differently one cannot change the underlying truth! You are failing to express that having a separate Pakistan was an induced idea of the British Empire...Jinnah became the tool of a British Exit strategy....especially as a hedge against the risk of a 'Blow Back' from Hindustan... if they have to leave in a hurry!..Especially if there was no infighting between Hindus and Muslims! That's why the British government & the US government have practiced ... The division we have is kept alive time after time! Keeping alive deep routed quarrel issues! Even now Pakistani politics is run by Pakistanies in the UK! There's no unified Muslim opinion... enabling Nationhood...we witnessed it in the names of 'Bengali fights & the exudes of Ahmedias' from Pakistan! Pakistani hatred for Hindus is so deep that they are attempting to outcast their forefathers!!! (Think Gazwae Hind! ...willing to sell out as Gazwae Pakistan to China!!)Indonesians and Malaysians are honest and courageous enough to recognize & accept their own forefathers! Yes Mother Hindustan was not a virgin... otherwise all of us would not have been born! We are not like children of the 'Virgin Merry'!!!

[@divyanshsh]

13:00 "he was a theosophist" array sirr... aaj to ❤ DIL JEET LIYE AAP 🙏 maa blavatsky (urf radha bai) aur shri Jiddu Krishnamurti ji to mera SALAM aur NAMASKAR 🙏

[@azanraza6234]

chapters are telling that this could be the finest exploration of question what we are today.

[@sanjithkmemon8525]

Dr Hoodhbouy if its the hittite horse training literature that you have to call sanskrit to have originated in syria...then its a thin thread to say that sanskrit originated there. Let me ask you, what was the language called in syria? Sanskrit or something else?

[@pramodvyas4862]

Excellent work... Congratulations. A scientist is after all a scientist and can see things with a dispassionate mind endowed with scientific temper. I look forward to next episode.

[@ArunGupta-wj1xl]

Akbar had 35 wives.

[@alimohtashimkhan2711]

Beautiful discussion in a different style.

[@mohanvirick2600]

Enjoyed this historical account of our shared past

[@lon9540]

Here is something people don't know, and, Modi won't like this BUT the truth is: The earliest form of Sanskrit is that used in the Rig Veda (called Old Indic or Rigvedic Sanskrit). Amazingly, Rigvedic Sanskrit was first recorded in inscriptions found not on the plains of India but in in what is now northern Syria. Between 1500 and 1350 BC, a dynasty called the Mitanni ruled over the upper Euphrates-Tigris basin, land that corresponds to what are now the countries of Syria, Iraq, and Turkey.

[@vivekmundhe8693]

All the historical monuments built during Moghal era are found in India...why can't we find them in any Islamic countries...? Many are saying that, Moghals built these monuments with Hindu architecture (Vastushastra) and Hindu construction workers and artisans with deep knowledge of vastushastra.

[@balkrishnaparab3353]

Has he heard about Kashi, Ujjain, Moolsthan?

[@chaina357]

Wonder how many Paxitanis can understand this

[@subramayamrvr8774]

Please write about the history of Anatolia Constantinople Istanbul and the origin of AL Aqsa mosque from the claims of Jewish history and Christian history.

[@kkamraanahsan173]

Very nice, informative and meaningful. Keep up the good work sir 👌 👍 👏

[@nazlone]

Amongst the few persons who are international celebrities from pakistan, are Prof Ishtiaq and prof. Hoodbhoy. Even if you differ with them, they cannot be ignored.

[@aniurs]

Dr.Hoodhoy, respect from a fellow physicist for your effort. But with all honesty I have to tell you , however good your intentions are, you are making the same mistake as the Nehruvian historians. They are tasked to write the history to reconcile the differences of the partitioned India. Its a ideological project. It is not a history based on facts, so they have cherry picked the incidents. Fast forward 75 yrs, see the result, still there is no reconciliation. The best way forward is bring to the forefront the good, bad and ugly and leave it to the masses to decide for themselves how they want to deal with it. Never underestimate the intellect of the common people. Best wishes!

[@honorhonor3352]

Thank you for doing this.

[@parmeshreddykadire9001]

Good and informative discussion

[@hussanzia6986]

The partition of British India and the birth of Pakistan is a fact of history. It is what actually happened and not what some of us like to think or believe happened. To know it, one has to turn to credible and reliable sources that can be readily verified. This was not possible until after the British Government made available the official record concerning Partition for publication. The last of its dozen or so volumes was not published until the late 1980s under the title, 'Transfer of Power Documents 1042 - 1947'. Anything published before this was primarily based on hearsay or personal recollection with limited value. Since then many reputable historians have recorded the history of Partition, giving appropriate references, with far greater accuracy and objectivity. Included among them are 'Alex Von Tunzelmann ('Indian Summer'), Patrick French ('Liberty or Death'), Lawrence James ('The Raj'), Andrew Roberts ('Eminent Churchillians'), and Stanley Wolpert ('Shameful Flight'). Any serious student of history would be well-advised to refer to these for guidance.

[@akshaynabar4837]

Professor Hoodbhoy, congratulations on your brave effort!! Thanks for a few surprising revelations such as regional identities etc. But few corrections: 1. The Mauryan empire was the first time large swathes of India were under a central authority 2. The Mughals didn't 'take care of' Hindus, there was also an element of the reverse 3. Regarding why the 'only' 19% were Muslims because the Muslim rulers 'spared' the Hindus the fury of the sword of Islam: There was fierce opposition to Muslim hegemony (not to Islam) by local Hindu forces e.g. Shivaji, Maharana Pratap, Rana Sangha etc. Therefore , they had to enter into opportunistic military and matrimonial alliances with Hindu military lords.....Viewers can draw their own inferences on why this Islamic period coincides with what would be called a 'dark age' of India, when comparing with the contemporary West..

[@sheikhfarid4038]

excellent ❤🇧🇩

[@balanatraj7712]

Dr. Hoodbhoy - I have watched several of your videos. They have always been very enlightening. It appears that this books pretty much starts with the entry of Moghuls in India. What about the period starting from Mauryan empire (325 BCE to 180 BCE approx)? I hope the book covers that.

[@somnathde8680]

Great subject.👌

[@addytov]

one of the best book, just reading

[@anantparashar9242]

Sir if you were searching for word hindu as a religion it was never there the religion is called sanatan dharm not hinduism but i agree there was not concept of common nation all were feudal lords

[@RaviRJoshi]

Excellent discussion, Sirs

[@rishabhkachroo]

As always, astutely put by Prof. Hoodbhoy. Always a delight to hear him.

[@dev7155g]

Jinha and Alma Iqbal both ancestors were Hindus hence whole Pakistani have Hindu ancestors

[@indrajitgupta3280]

As Professor Hoodbhoy points out, it was a rapid demographic change from 1700 onwards. This is slightly misleading. The Portuguese were far more active, far longer. Urbanisation and rapid demographic change happened in Goa before the British brought in changes in parts that they ruled. That also included the impact of European laws; Goa has had a uniform civil code right through, even as India grapples with the concept and tries to separate it from Islamophobic action.

[@jamshedfbc]

❤

[@subramayamrvr8774]

The Mauryan empire and Chola empire and their culture traditions civilization is ignored of South India.

[@balkrishnaparab3353]

Dr. Hoodbhoy is looking at the Sanatan Dharma, which he calls Hinduism from the prism of Abrahamic religions. That is a mistake.

[@doctorvinay]

Suave. Good job ! 👍🏼

[@mkpandyapandya5188]

Mr Parvez I request u to give one copy your book to laltopi n Oriya makbool because their view about Iqbal totally different

[@nadiaalibaig]

Great

[@Unknown-sh8kw]

Which other countries have ancient documents or books in Sanskrit 🤔🤔🤔 Aryan theory is already debunked.

[@subramayamrvr8774]

Foreign religions have divided the world into believers and non believers while belief is subject to scrutiny and belief has been exploited for political power and commercial exploitation.

[@tejindersharma8603]

A enriching debate good food for brain

[@mohanvirick2600]

Is the book available at Amazon Sure would buy it

[@basicphysics1520]

sir g plasma physics bi start kren plz

[@btmoradia]

He is one of few sensible Pakistanis.

[@Vishal_Kanade]

intro music name please 🙏🏻

[@somnathde8680]

I am sharing this in Indians WhatsApp groups.

[@runalbhuyar_10]

You must interview indian intellectual on same topic 👍👍👍🇮🇳

[@SarojEkka-zc3nq]

Why india was called Bharat from ancient times?

[@karan706]

Sir what about chanakya, Gupta Empire, Maurya Empire

[@nikhildeshmukh6221]

Life is beautiful ❤️ if you ignore trollers 😎 Especially from PTI 🇵🇰and BJP 🇮🇳

[@golangolan]

Excellent discussion. When people from both sides disagree with you, you must be saying something right.

[@AmjadAli-qk3vc]

Is Sanskrit is a dead language?

[@prasad7553]

Half truth is not truth.

[@shahidkinnare]

Indus valley civilization new name Pakistan.

[@WhiteRock262]

Sounds like a great book❤❤

[@iftikhar8642]

India pe aur region pe b baat kren

[@kasiviswanathankrishnan2412]

shivaji is maratha

[@jay-vs6xb]

If you want to see Indian architecture.. Visit temple's, It is incredible.. Most if were distroyed by attackers..

[@indigenous_clips]

Sir sanskrit came from south east asia..

[@masoodanwar6856]

سر اردو میں بات کریں

[@manieshshah6778]

Sir come to india for your book promotion. You have a huge fan base in india. I am sure you won't face any difficulty for visa.

[@ammarali1914]

Great