1000 Idiots make a TF2 Map Democratically

[@shounic]

edit dec 28th 2023: changed the thumbnail :) (server in description) chat makes a (serious) 100 player tf2 map -> Dec 6th 12 PM EST // though this might change depending on when valve releases smissmas. i'll post updates in #important-alerts here -> discord.gg/E2zYGKAH3q also please lmk if you have any feedback on the video. first real go at talking about a map like this in a video, hope it was coherent. any questions i should've answered or topics i should've explored?

[@Cheeze-r1x]

Yippee

[@rbarua3368]

Sadly I could not be here for this experiment, but hopefully I can be there for the next one.

[@Kotarol]

we gotta make a comp viable map

[@WangleLine]

I'm really excited to see the serious version of this~

[@clwnwrld]

I'm going to be sad if the result isn't D-day normandy

[@TheAmazingHerosquad]

"Walls to block sightlines" holy shit it's more balanced than upward

[@MoistMarsupial]

Real

[@trbz_8745]

This 1 mapping trick doctors DON'T want you to know‼️: Add a vscript file that removes sniper. Now your map is instantly balanced.

[@shawermus]

​​@@trbz_8745funnily enough, you can't do that with vscript lol

[@stefan-x9g]

​@@trbz_8745The one tf2 trick sniper mains don't want you to know : Don't move in a straight line And if they still kill you, they're a bot obviously.

[@engineergaming3830]

​@@stefan-x9gquickscopes be like

[@bakugo_v8]

By itself, the idea of a koth map with two points that behave as one is quite interesting and I hope someone makes a real map like that.

[@embrestedfalacy6552]

that's a real map wdym

[@wisbilt1650]

​@@embrestedfalacy6552what map

[@pinkius]

Agreed, that's a very cool idea. This map is basically a brainstorm of a chat with some cool ideas, and I do want for someone to make map with 2 koth points. That will make them much more interesting and more classes will be viable in the fight, cuz usually it all ends up with powerclass just doing a lot of AOE damage and killing everyone.

[@Jeffrey_LOL-vi9wy]

WOMMY FOUND

[@Decilliard]

KOTH DEMOCRACYIS THE REELEST MAP THERE Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little more about mapping than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor.

[@greasehardbody4018]

I love that the key areas of the map have distinct, recognizable callouts like "Snakewater" and "Vents." This map is gonna take the competitive scene by storm.

[@Cyrenetes]

Flashbacks to a teammate in a Snakewater 6v6 match answering "On Snake" when I asked where the enemy sniper is.

[@Hexarth]

you people don't understand, this is exactly what every community map was like back in the day

[@the48thronin97]

I distinctly remember playing on the incredibly schitzophrenic Minecraft trade maps that people made, truly goofy maps.

[@SnackPatrol]

Yup. A perfect example is an absolutely ancient map from I would guess 2008 called "2f2f_directional_dinosaurs_a1". It is a bunch of sloppy, haphazard geometry with a koth point in the center surrounded by rotating brontosauruses. One of them has a rocket strapped to its back. If you search hard enough you can find it.

[@absoultethings4213]

@@SnackPatrolI need this map,,,

[@DuringDark]

it's got an obby and everything

[@SnackPatrol]

@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Well, I know it's almost certainly someone who played on the legendary server 2fort2furious back in the day hence the prefix. The owner FLOOR_MASTER is behind the classic Team Roomba Griefing vids and also made cp_steel, and another regular there Mangycarface or some shit made pl_Frontier. I used to play there ages ago but most of them moved on.

[@nemtudom5074]

3:45 'What made the most sense was the dustbowls' Hearing that just made me shudder

[@aloysiuskurnia7643]

A powerful sentence indeed.

[@jeremypanjaitan4039]

one shudders to imagine what thoughts lie behind the youtube chat

[@the_neuron]

The multi point koth seems like unironically good idea.

[@sfc0450]

While not quite the same as how it works in this video, dom_cliffhanger is a map that I think is pretty neat. It's a koth map with 5 separate points, but your team's timer goes down faster if you control more points. So if you control all 5 points, your timer counts down 5 seconds at a time instead of one. I've never been able to play on the map against real people before, but I tried running bots on it and it was pretty fun to roam around trying to take all the points.

[@jacklander4480]

​@@sfc0450that is pretty much just arena shooter "Domination" gamemode

[@kreuger_]

It’s standing from the 2013 summer update or sulfur from the 2023 summer update

[@leonardo9259]

no

[@LanceThumping]

Agreed. It makes an interesting split between attack and defense.

[@willgander]

Two control points that function as one is a neat idea tbh. Maybe a smaller and simpler map using that idea would be more fun?

[@navimations8395]

koth_chokepoint (doesnt exsist yet)

[@mocksuxker69]

​@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413koth_coughin

[@The-jy3yq]

So it'd kinda be like 5 CP and CTF mixed together? Well, you can just make KOTH_2_doublecross or something

[@Geebanger0]

It could work if it had multiple control points, and each point you owned subtracted more time from your clock

[@augustday9483]

@@Geebanger0 Reminds me of the Arathi Basin battleground from World of Warcraft. Instead of a timer, you're trying to be first to 1500 score. There are five capture points, each point you own gives you 5 score per second. So the battle is very dynamic and requires a balance of defense and offense. I bet a similar gamemode could work well in TF2. Maybe with three points instead of five, just to simplify things.

[@Cats-TM]

As we all know, everything always goes up exponentially in quality when there are more people.

[@brunop.8745]

There's no way that adding more cooks would spoil the broth, that's ridiculous

[@TaRAAASHBAGS]

Especially in video games

[@nuxx1876]

​@@brunop.8745or in this case, spoil the koth_

[@memelover6917]

After all, 1000 people will obviously have the exact same idea

[@Cats-TM]

@@memelover6917 Of course, it is widely known that everyone will always agree with each other and get along…

[@Duhhh233]

The completely deadpan, "Next, they voted for minecraft parkour" had me in stitches.

[@Pyrolol_]

Shounic's deadpan delivery makes every ridiculous idea funnier

[@NocturnalTyphlosion]

"attached to [the train] is the funny rock that looks like a dick."

[@Dallie502]

Remember the laws of video game maps, the more inexperienced people are, the better the map

[@D0NU75]

thanks John Romero

[@commenteroftruth9790]

it is extremely agreeable. It is also more fun if you can let go and feel the freeness of the chaos.

[@BodywiseMustard]

You can save a syllable and say "the less experienced people are"

[@Pawlakov1]

as a tf2 mapper? yeah i can imagine this outcome lmao

[@Pawlakov1]

though it's barely any worse than the usual "new-mapper-who-just-finished-the-tutorial-koth-a1" map

[@awsomebot1]

love the iconic maps by the household name pawlakov

[@Pawlakov1]

@@awsomebot1 hey, i never claimed i'm good at it 🙃 (but just you wait for the next summer update)

[@elecman748]

​@@Pawlakov1wutbeach for the next summer update? lol

[@Pawlakov1]

​@@elecman748 one can hope... (or cope)

[@j4ff4c3ks1]

If anyone's seen Trainsawlazer, i think it's a perfect exhibition of loads of silly elements in an actually functioning map

[@sunderkeenin]

cp chad is also some artful 5cp work

[@unitedfederation262]

TRAIN RAIN

[@SnackPatrol]

There's a lot of gimmick maps like that. koth_foolsgrid, pl_cooler_badwater, koth_wubwubwub_remix. I used to run a community server and searched high and low for tasteful gimmick maps. Makes me sad I don't have enough time to start it again.

[@UEAKCrash]

sounds made up

[@madtwist2364]

koth_nippletwister would like to say hi, it's also got a really unique twist in the form of a moving, floating control point

[@mersonkrazyTV]

You should get 1000 people to make a tf2 Gamemode and see what hell that brings

[@GewelReal]

​@@ywer3455when cp_(...) contains actual cp

[@GrumpyIan]

​@@ywer3455Sexton Hale!!

[@SnowflakeTheProtogen]

@@GewelRealNO!

[@sheeppf5265]

​@@ywer3455The Sex Update

[@WhoTookIt]

​@@GewelRealholy shit

[@nuclearcatpotatoe3714]

Id love to see someone make a cleaned up version or the map, making it fit more aesthetically with tf2s map style, and maybe fixing up the walls and corridors and whatnot to not be pure floating planes

[@bardofvoid174]

yes

[@grogcito]

the skybox has to be a giant hollow rectangular cuboid though

[@D0NU75]

I can see this map being mining related, the central CP could be underground with the different bumping kart corridors being tunnels and on top of them the other 2 CPs

[@G-Cole-01]

@@D0NU75 _HAAAANK!_ _HANK, DON'T ABBREVIATE "CONTROL POINT!"_ _HAAAANK!_

[@lightningkitten]

@@D0NU75 excellent, although what would the parkour bit be? climbing atop busted pylons to reach a hidden sorcerer's tomb?

[@sheacorduroy5565]

Honestly though I’d genuinely really love to see a legitimately serious map made for 100 player servers. Like, a gargantuan 8 point payload map or something.

[@The-jy3yq]

And that's where you make 2 CP KotH maps! So you have 25v25×2 or a massive incursion on one side that lets the other point's defenders to hit 'em in a back

[@fortnitesexman]

imagine trying to learn the sheer amount of competitive callout names 💀

[@pux0rb]

As a map maker, this really hurts to watch. Also I'm not surprised in the slightest that Egan took a look at this and decided to fix it up lol. This is right up his alley

[@widecat1404]

A koth map with multiple points linked together is quite fascinating. I definitely agree that something interesting could be made with that concept.

[@milliondollarmistake]

honestly the forest/pond combo as the point is really nice looking, and the multiple points all being connected is honestly neat

[@DaxMarko]

There's a gamemode from Unreal Tournament similar to this KOTH setup, called "Domination". There are multiple capture zones around the map, that generate team points as long as they are held. Team with most of those points at end of the round timer, wins. In first UT its usually 3 or 4 points, and in UT2004 its only 2 points. The gamemode is very chaotic with players separating into fragmented defenders to hold multiple zones, and one focused group of attackers. Gamemode also has no specified spawn point, players respawn where-ever their teammates are, in order to eliminate the bias of capture zones being too close to one team's spawn. When comes to Team Fortress 2, one would need script this kind of respawn mechanic, because each of those "Dustbowls" are going to be so fortified with sentries, that the map will just turn into regular KOTH (although the hazardous difficulty on middle point does make players prefer dustbowl ones) or it will be a deathmatch stalemate unless one team just steamrolls. There's definitely potential for a fun new gamemode but I'd advise map makers to take notes from Unreal Tournament's Domination mode and experiment with 2-5 capture points, and especially, be wary of dem darn Engi's sentry nests throwing a wrench into map's balance.

[@CharlesHydronium]

Control Points is a vanilla gamemode in TF2

[@zedxcu]

why does this have so few likes? its like the most constructive comment on this video

[@MarkStillPlays]

as a tf2 mapper, i want to see a part 2 to this and more

[@Buster_real]

Actually koth with 2 hills sounds really cool.

[@simonperry8955]

Shounic got so angry during this maps creation livestream, and looking at what was made, I don’t blame em

[@DaRockeet]

It takes an impressive amount of control for Shounic to sound as stoic as he was while going over every detail that chat said should be added to the map's design

[@boonekeller5275]

personally i suggest selecting a council of like 10 random people from chat to decide what decisions are voted on by the rest of chat, democracy by sortition and all that

[@MillsTC]

Never let Shounic touch hammer ever again

[@jabz1582]

You mean the comments

[@segadoeswhatnintendont]

​@@jabz1582you mean discord

[@ToonLinkHox]

This is the beauty of emergent gameplay and giving players tools to create : yes, most of the results are utter rubbish, but you can get some genuinely interesting and creative ideas/concepts and some genuinely good interactions that you wouldn't really get anywhere else. The triple KOTH point creates what I can only term as "asymmetric balance", where the losing team is never 100% on the back foot and always has one or two other options to come back, breaking up the bunched-up winning team. The karts were clearly not originally designed for regular gameplay, but it somehow works here, on top of the scenarios you brought up. There are, of course, some serious issues, namely, non-jump classes' mobility is shot and it's aesthetically a complete mess, but reined in a little, you could probably make an actual map out of it. Let's see how the more serious attempt goes.

[@DannyCheezits]

solution: grappling hooks

[@anyarr]

shounic truly is a pioneer

[@ge1574]

If by "not good" you mean "a flawless masterpiece" then yes

[@breadmilkYT]

This map probably leads to the most miserable tf2 experience out there, however it does contain a train so this means its an objectively good map

[@maskofthedragon]

This still ended up with less gimmicks than the average Scream Fortress map!

[@Just_a_Dragon69]

"And of course to entirely invalidate everything we done so far... 2 dustbowls" Hahaha 😂

[@slyfox7452]

I like the idea of a cap point that can kill you if you stay on it too long.

[@godofportal5905]

the anti camp cap point

[@hunterchichester5720]

Anti ca(m)p

[@lucaslennan3356]

I love that it has the design choice that every group designed thing bas where the final design decisions ruins literally everything that came before it.

[@0xGRIDRUNR]

I don't know why you seem to dislike this map, it just seems like God tier map design honestly

[@AaronMk91]

Multiple control points serving as one is in all honestly an incredible idea. I'd like to see it implemented in a not-a-meme-map so we can learn more how it works. Besides being a way to keep KOTH dynamic, it sounds like a good idea to spread the fighting out some more, as said about the Dustbowl last cap points.

[@colonelchair2737]

Honestly, the idea of 3 cap points, all working towards a unified capture is a really interesting idea I think. If you introduced some method(s) of keeping people moving and circling to other points, or at least encouraging that, it would make for such an interesting dynamic; maybe there are hammers over the two points closest to each team's spawn, that strike down, killing whoever is standing there or some other similar thing. Then again, even just having points close to each team's spawn would likely be enough to encourage moving between them.

[@thewoodpeckers655]

Shounic has really created a great community for us extra nerdy TF2 players.

[@TinyDeskEngineer]

"According to chat, the screaming is an important gameplay mechanic"

[@RustMaxxing]

you should try to make a salvageable enjoyable map out of this, with all the wacky ideas kept but balanced and with actual yknow, walls and proper map design lmao

[@LordDaret]

The two control point concept is kinda like an inverted CTF map. Instead of trying to defend and follow the intel, you are trying to retain your position.

[@hoodcate]

Despite everything i'm sure that if you gave it enough love and actual sense it wouldn't be so bad..

[@Qtheman3456]

"...immediately ruined with a rapidly-spinning cow that kills you..." You mean improved.

[@AlliroG98]

Honestly, playable go-karts mixed with regular players like this would be cool for a Scream Fortress map

[@sirhoopsalot7605]

i wasn't sold on this map until you revealed the two dustbowls truly, this is peak tf2 map design

[@NintendoNerd64]

honestly, a "tower defense" type koth map where there's 2 different control points that function the same is an insanely cool concept in my opinion

[@averageplaystationenjoyer2082]

“Oh, Also they held a strange tube to my head and demanded it be on the 100 player server”💀

[@neuroticthoughts6952]

people shooting from snakewater to dustbowl on this map is like rick and morty shooting at ppl through portals into different dimensions

[@LVJYnepeta]

a think a great way to do the multiple KOTH points map design is to add one on both sides as a middle point between the main point and spawn, where the side points are locked off until the centre has been captured, and only opens up on the side of the team that isnt in control- this means the team in control needs to push forward more to the second point whilst holding down the centre, and cant just have one person sitting on their sides point whilst the rest of the team pushes up- moving the cap holders to the centre instead

[@fdjp7338]

This reminds me alot of that one cp orange map that had the spawn points as big towers being able to go through the bottom or through the top while also having a weird underground maze The only thing that wasnt similar was the big pit, there being sniper sightlines along the walls and it being a 5 cp map

[@ExplodingImplosion]

1:45 which classes jump for the beef

[@drgabi18]

1:45 we got Parkour Civilization before Parkour Civilization

[@ground5295]

i'd like to mention the idea of one koth point being represented by multiple other points actually has existed in COD for a while, as the gamemode Hardpoint is more or less this same exact idea, just with the points being randomly rotated around instead of all of them active at the same time. i'd love to see an approach to this gamemode in TF2, because COD honestly has some really fun gamemodes that i think would work well in TF2, given experimentation of course.

[@charlesfort6602]

I feel like cows giving you mad milk effect should be more common in tf2

[@purplehaze2358]

This feels less like a TF2 map and more like an LSD trip.

[@LanceThumping]

Combining the points might be a work of brilliance. I think there could be a really interesting KOTH (tug-o-war) design in there.

[@DanScrap1]

Always remember too many cooks spoils the broth

[@dr.wondertainment3650]

Now this map need to be "x1000, VSH, classwars, 100 players, RTD" And this all in one

[@kok0nut]

i'd like to see a real map with a split koth point now

[@idiotsamich1737]

You know, that two koth control point idea is really awesome. Having to switch between attacking people capping/blocking capture of your point and defending to block capture alltogether is a surprisingly complex and interesting map gimmick. That could be really neat if put on an actually well designed map

[@justhere4637]

6:48 It doesn't even matter.

[@PsychadelicoDuck]

It's made of memes, made go-carts into a legitimate map mechanic, and invented a new game mode. 6.79/10

[@renthewerecat]

having multiple points act as one point is actually a really cool idea

[@Doggggggggo]

Glad to be a part of this wonderful map

[@woodywas4549]

VIDEO PUBLISHED 12 SECONDS AGO LETS GOO

[@cuttingrass]

A horrible but beautiful masterpiece that they created honestly

[@GSFigure]

Multiple koth capture points leading to one unique objective is actually a clever idea. I'm surprised no known map developer thought of this.

[@kreuger_]

Because the most effective way to win would be to stand on your side’s objective. Going out of your way to the other team’s cap point would put you at a disadvantage as you would be fighting most of their team by yourself. A group of people leaving the cap point to fight the enemy would mean losing before even fighting the enemy. It rewards turtling on the point, which is not fun for either side of the fight.

[@m.i.g.2023]

"Both Dustbowls and Snakewater points function as one point" So, with a far stretch, it is Planetside 2.

[@JoSephGD]

this map format would be really good in 100 player death matches. having multiple concentrated battles at once for control points is a cool concept

[@rpgnerd7610]

I like admist the chaos, they remembered that sniper existed

[@GirlsUndPanzerFan98]

Since jump pads exist, I guess people could try making their own TF2 version of the maps The Longest Yard and Apocalypse Void from Quake 3 Arena.

[@varlotto]

i really like these experiment videos you do with your community. it's fun seeing the results. next make them vote on a new gamemode

[@Cptn.Viridian]

Least confusing custom 24/7 community server map b like

[@BeckenPowerPL]

3:39 Ayoo I think that might be me! :D

[@HellecticMojo]

"Democracy simply does not work" - Kent Brockman

[@Die-Coughman]

I'm thankful that the map got the lighting bake it deserves

[@percher4824]

Yo, honestly? A map with two or three separate points that count as one point sounds like a neat idea.

[@frostgem8013]

I dont think anyone was taking the map making seriously, and I love it.

[@ihavenoideadanny]

imagine a 2 point koth map where both teams are blocked by an invisible wall, and the only way to win is by lobbing grenades and rockets and getting high ground

[@sgas]

I love this, should totally do more. The introduction of the map was especially silly

[@Wafflemaker420]

“Having multiple points could work and is fun to play” Shounic… you just created a territorial control map lolololol

[@The-jy3yq]

Well not really as TC is too short for that

[@enderguyx2081]

The multiple simultaneous capture points reminds me of a map I saw in a dream once. I won’t go into detail, but the main capture points had smaller points above them, when if capped, it made the below points faster to cap

[@Pacemaker_fgc]

One dustbowl = best map in the game Two dustbowls = 10/10 masterpiece Our only conclusion is that it is not actually the number of players who make a map that determines its quality, but the number of dustbowls.

[@TinyDeskEngineer]

Imagine a map created like this where, instead of everyone voting on various overall gameplay features, they literally just each individually place entities, brushes, and everything else. Doubt a working map would come out of that ever, unless we don't care about leaks, but it'd be interesting to see what a map created entirely with text commands would look like.

[@MarcusAlder]

Hey I'm the demo at 5:16!

[@Syamfprch]

I think the 3 control points working as one together is pretty nice, so i guess ill make a description of how id like to see it function Each team has control of 1 "subpoint" near the central point which gives team a slight increase in cap rate, if the central point isnt capped by anyone or the team has no pointsit remains as the normal cap rate, if they hold their own subpoint, they will have a slight 25% boost in cap rate, if they sneak behind the enemy and capture their subpoint they get a 50% boost in cap rate, if they have all points they get an extra 30 seconds on the timer. ( I am not really sure about this so tell me in the comments how you think this could be improved.)

[@thebonelyone6666]

I contributed, so I'm going to need some of the profits when the map is added to the casual pool.

[@VarenvelDarakus]

your 1000 players had too many trolls my bro.

[@TheBlairThing]

I think this new "3koth" gamemode might have some good gameplay if you fine tuned it. Maybe it could be like a points system instead of timed, with each point giving more score to the team that capped it, and the middle neutral one would give more. It would be like Payload race for koth, the first team to get 100 points wins.

[@darkAwesome100]

so clearly this means that there is an idle number of map creators somewhere between one and 100. now you just have to find it.

[@bright554]

I expected it to be just 2fort with random shit but it's random shit with 2fort

[@TheAweDude1]

I want a serious attempt at reviving the Robot Destruction game-mode.

[@AndresinReal]

Idea for the Dustbowls: It would be cool that capturing the Dustbowls made you KOTH time faster. If you have one in your side the timer goes down by one second as normal, if they are both yours the timer goes down two seconds (or more) and if you have no control point in your side the KOTH point will take one full minute to count as a second. I think it would be unique and fun, making the middle important without leaving the Dustbowls obsolete.

[@SalaoLaBrasa]

5:32 that pyro about to start a whole villan arc on blu team

[@oddgod8005]

You forgot to mention the ball we added

[@icetide9411]

The double koth idea is at least an interesting gameplay mechanic

[@SmolBloof]

starting to feel less like TF2 experiments and more experiments demonstrating flawed democracy.

[@argentcosmonautmobile5672]

Bro, this is so chaotic that the chaos somewhat nullified itself with the dustbowl points and the HUGE spawn rooms.

[@righty5890]

Oh yes please keep us updated on the map making!

[@baprapcat]

i remember tuning into the livestream one time seeing the hightowers the point underneath and hearing that there will be a water slide and i knew this would be great so i guess im just going to join the server now to play it edit: nvm the servers full