#10MinuteTalk

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Synonymous with Africa’s dangerous game, double rifles, and more than 100 years old, the .470 Nitro Express is still a viable factory-loaded option. This thing doles out a licking and keeps on ticking. PH’s still bet their life on the effectiveness of the .470 Nitro. Tune in as we chat about this big-bore brute and what makes it so great!
As always, we want to hear your feedback! Let us know if there are any topics you'd like covered on the Vortex Nation™ podcast by asking us on any one of our social media platforms and using #VortexNationPodcast.
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[@jgt07]

I love these 30 minute 10 minute talks

[@VortexNation]

😂😂😂

[@chrisowen5497]

Yes! You know it’s good when it goes 20 minutes over! Good stuff!

[@DrBreezeAir]

More African calibers! Yay! Thanks, guys! Still waiting on that .416 Rigby. Also, for your dream gun collection, I'd add a Purdey shotgun.

[@VortexNation]

Stay tuned!

[@theyeti0987]

416 rigby please!

[@austinhall5933]

.416 rigby PLEASE!

[@45-70Guy]

Love the enthusiasm on the African calibers. 416 and 404 Jeffrey

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

I definetly second more afrikan cartridges.

[@willd7596]

Awesome podcast. As someone that owns a .470 NE double and several other large/dangerous game rifles, this was pretty much in the correct ball park. A couple notes/additions, then I will add my take on philosophy of use. -There are many cartridges that have killed many dangerous game animals in Africa. The 9.3x62 Mauser has killed elephant (and is the legal minimum in some nations). But those larger nitro express cartridges give you more versatility in your shooting. Shot placement is still king, but if you have an imperfect angle and you have to break a shoulder, a hip, or stop a charge, the larger cartridge gives you more versatility. -100% on quality of the rifle. Double rifles are some of if not the finest firearms made on the planet. The metallurgy, crafting, tolerances... there is no such thing as a 'low quality' or 'cheap' double rifle. They don't exist because they wouldn't be safe. The skill required to make a firearm shooting such powerful cartridges in a break open action shouldn't be underestimated. -100% on PH's. Professional Hunters almost always carry doubles for defensive use. Like above... a great high quality bolt gun (with proper shot placement) in .416 or .458 will kill an elephant... but the double is great for close in charge-stopping use. Hunting in Africa is never done alone (or shouldn't be). It's ideal to have the primary hunter equipped with a high quality bolt gun in a large cartridge (with a good scope in 1-4 power) and the double with the PH for defensive use. -100% on Recoil management. These rifles are in a completely other category. You really need to build up your recoil tolerance and recoil management technique. If you expect to jump from .308 to .470 NE... you're in for an awakening. If you have gotten used to .416 Rigby/.458 Lott, .470 isn't a far jump. These rifles require a very high level of rifle shooting ability to shoot well. -.450/400 is re-surging, though .470 NE is still definitely popular. -Pricing. In the year 2023, if you want a very reliable solid double that is made new and actually regulated properly to current factory chamberings, be prepared to have at least $20k budgeted. There are some older doubles circulating around for a more affordable price point (11k-14k ish), but sometimes they aren't regulated to modern/current factory offerings, and therefore you won't be able to achieve the accuracy you want (and need)... I say this from personal experience. -If anyone is legitimately interested in a double rifle, go to the SCI convention and actually talk to the gun firms that actually make these rifles... talk to them in person and have that honest conversation. These firearms are serious investments. -Philosophy of use (which you guys pretty much covered): For the vast majority of hunters, especially North American hunters, a double rifle in these cartridges will never be needed. The double rifle in nitro express cartridges is truly an African firearm. With training, double rifles in nitro cartridges absolutely have the quick defensive advantage over a bolt action rifle with that quick follow up shot. But the general versatility of bolt action rifles should never be discounted. While I love my .470 NE, I have hunted far more with my .375 H&H/.416 Rigby battery. If we are being honest, the amount of animals in Africa killed by Winchester Model 70's and CZ/BRNO rifles can't be ignored. -Training (you guys did cover). Even in dangerous situations, a .416 Rigby bolt action rifle you have trained with heavily is better for you than a .470 NE you have never trained with or shot. If you can't hit the target... the size of the cartridge doesn't matter at all. -Great podcast! You guys need to cover the .375 H&H and the .416 Rigby in dedicated talks.

[@corvinking4996]

Awesome comment! I’m looking forward to my first dangerous game hunt, but I’ve already taken a 6x6 bull elk during an unguided spot and stalk hunt with my .500 a-square. It was built on an Enfield action, and I picked it up while stationed in Fairbanks, AK. It’s definitely too much of a good thing, but very effective. I’m hoping to take it after water buffalo 🐃 next year in Australia. I’m thinking about swapping it out, because, although I shoot it well, it has hellacious recoil. Thoughts?

[@VortexNation]

We appreciate your feedback and all of your points on these styles of rifles.

[@willd7596]

@@corvinking4996 lol! I use my .300 Winmag and .375 H&H as elk guns, and they do the job handily! I don't think you need something like a .500 a-square. If you are going to Australia, I would see what cartridges local hunters/guides use. They will know. I haven't hunted that animal. That being said... I have found sticking with well-distributed/established cartridges is a good bet.

[@willd7596]

@@VortexNation No problem! I know I was repeating much of what you guys mentioned... loved you guys covering it!

[@jefflovesdogs9973]

Doesn't the 470 Nitro Express out penetrate most other dangerous game cartridges? That is what I have read and also hear from someone who owned one. I have heard that is what it is known for and accounts for it's popularity. What is your take on that sir?

[@jamses23]

Ryan’s OCD rearranging Marks placement of the cartridges made my morning because I wanted to reach through my TV and do the same thing.

[@VortexNation]

😆😆😆

[@traceyevans2757]

Y’all just need to accept the fact that a 20-30minute cartridge talk is the way to go. We want more than 10 minutes. These are the BEST guys.

[@chadperry4021]

Jim wins the day with: “It’s a Glock barrel” 😂😂😂😂😂😂well done.

[@joshsinglefooter]

.404 Jeffrey. The cartridge that has given us all these modern day cartridge designs.

[@willd7596]

Classic!

[@corvinking4996]

Definitely on my list!

[@jfess1911]

I read a book about British snipers in WWI in which they mentioned that some Axis snipers and machinegunners shot from behind shields of armor plate. Some of these "Elephant Cartridges" were used to penetrate those shields.

[@BlueNinjaStay]

Daily cartridge talks! Finally getting what I wanted for Christmas!

[@VortexNation]

You're welcome!!!

[@ElijahDarts]

This makes me wanna rewatch the nearly perfect safari rifle series

[@corvinking4996]

I loved that series! He’s like the Bob Ross of gunsmithing!

[@davidvincent5701]

Ryan finally did it, his true Christmas wish list rifles. So we as a community should become Santa next year. We can't afford brand new rifles, but we can find good quality project rifles to start off with.

[@VortexNation]

🙌🙌🙌

[@ThemantleofElijah]

What an awesome cartridge and I want to get one someday. Too bad they are only chambered in double rifles usually

[@jamses23]

You guys need to hook up with Scott at Kentucky Ballistics. He has a whole bunch of Nitro rifles that you could probably shoot.

[@VortexNation]

Noted, thanks for the recommendation!

[@angryplaydoh]

I was thinking the same thing. Ryan needs a field trip to meet Scott@@VortexNation

[@bryanmaneval2401]

Awesome and fun show guys. I always enjoy your content.

[@BobcatSchneidermann]

About a decade ago, I went to visit a buddy in Oslo, Norway. One of his employees had a .470 NE, that I got to shoot once. Good fun! The dude had taken it hunting exactly once. He shot a beaver with it. Even had the shakey, low pixel count cell phone video of it, complete with laughing Norwegian hillbillies in the background to prove it.

[@corvinking4996]

This is awesome! I love African cartridges! My dangerous game Rifle is a .500 a-square. 80% of a .50 BMG. My “light elk load” is 570 grain wood Leigh weldcore at 2350fps. Shot a bull the lungs at 184 yards, then went through it lengthwise as it turned to run. Shattered the pelvis, through the torso, shattered the shoulder, then exited the neck. Kind of a fun lead balloon too 😂

[@corvinking4996]

Two separate shots in case that was confusing

[@clinkerclint]

I haven't even listened yet but you're getting a big thumbs up for a Nitro Express!!!!

[@Winkler_B_Rudolf_1911]

One of my all time favorites.

[@truehaun]

Would like to hear Ryan’s thoughts on some of the Weatherby offerings like 338 rpm and 30-378, 338-378 and 340 Weatherby. Or a whole podcast dedicated to all the weatherby cartridges.

[@ThemantleofElijah]

I’ve owned a Ruger No1 in 450-400 NE and there awesome, it had some recoil but not unmanageable similar to a 12ga loaded with slugs. That’s a 400 gr bullet

[@willd7596]

The Ruger No1 is an extremely versatile rifle... there is a reason they have the following they do.

[@ThemantleofElijah]

@@willd7596 I agree there a very good design glad they’re still being made

[@corvinking4996]

I used to have a No.1 Tropical in .45-70. Loaded it like a lower-end .458 win mag. So fun!

[@20020x]

Every time I convince myself I don't "need" a stopping rifle, I see something like this and it lights that fire again. 450 Rigby perhaps. Dakota Arms/Park West 76 style rifle but on a LA Mack Brothers, or better yet a Satterlee Mauser action.....I have a stock blank of osage orange that is ear marked for such a project.......If I had the expendable income, I'd take a trip to Westley Richards and have a double built, nothing super fancy, but a "utility grade" stomper, probably 470 NE, and see if I could talk them into it a 20ga barrel set for it. Also, the Peter Hofer firearms are some of the most "magical" guns I have ever seen. I saw them at Safari Club in Reno in like 2000, stunning. Thanks Guys, Love These Talks

[@corvinking4996]

I think you have excellent taste, sir! I would like to replace the synthetic stock on my .500 a-square if I keep it, and I’m thinking I’d use Purple Heart, or possibly persimmon, though I’d like the added weight.

[@HikeHuntHaul]

Love true big bores! More cartridge talks plz! 👍🏻😃

[@jaydunbar7538]

You guys should have Scott from Kentucky ballistics visit with his nitro express collection, 577 tyrannosaur, and have him shoot his 4 bore and tell us how that stacks up to his 6mm lol

[@carliprofr]

I absolutely Love your reviews ! Thanks a lot. Please do the 416 RIGBY next 🙏🏻

[@donaldmonroe8503]

Ryan's rifle pr0n got me going! Happy new year!

[@EdD-ym6le]

Made me smile , good one . I looked up Hofer Hummingbird jeez most expensive gun candy . The wood on the Hofer firearms they are just beautiful and yeah the engraving is extraordinary but that wood .

[@45-70Guy]

“Sounds like a lot of messing around” Awesome content guys love it

[@pulldeauxduck2480]

As a young guy 1982 ,got a .458WM ,Ruger#1 didn’t have mercury /recoil reducers ,good idea ,,my sissy pad works swell ,2inch @300yrds , 510jsp ,still heart this gat! 🦆🦆🦆

[@40calnut]

I’ve got an old 1886 with a factory 3 leaf on it that’s stamped 50,100,200. Very handy!

[@corvinking4996]

What a dream 🤩

[@PassivePortfolios]

The 375 H&H remains the most popular "all around" cartridge in Africa for good reasons. The 404 Jeffrey and 9.3x62 Mauser are making a comeback of sorts due to lower recoil than other big bore stoppers.

[@clinkerclint]

Hey, would you guys mind doing a 10 min talk on the 38-40 sometime? Loved this video. NE cartridges are some of my very favorite.

[@devongreen7308]

The look Jim gave that cartridge at the end is just hilarious.

[@dingdongmagee]

Love the cartridge talks

[@VortexNation]

🙌🙌🙌

[@AaronBleess-yz4cw]

A cast bullet and Trail Boss powder works great for reduced loads. Won’t regulate in a double though.

[@mrthebeaudry]

Yes! Traditional African cartridges! Any chance of the 9.3x62/9.3x74r in an upcoming episode? Or a modern 300 Norma? Great video by the way!

[@willd7596]

The 9.3x62 Mauser is a classic.

[@robgreene1776]

Cool. Now do the .475 Turnbull in the Winchester 1886 !

[@brandonschilling9020]

I think we need a 9.3x64 Berneke talk. Awesome cartridge, that needs more recognition

[@AaronBleess-yz4cw]

I’m looking forward to the Gel tests.

[@FightingTexasAggie]

It would be really interesting to see a long podcast comparing the popular african big bore calibers.

[@andrewboore3899]

I get decent results with the Baikal MP221 in 45-70 as an "Inexpensive" double rifle. Does the job well out to 75 yards, I've been lucky I've never had to mess with regulation dial. Good enough for whitetails and blackbears in the thick woods.

[@gregnelson5242]

470 is a great round, the bullet itself is amazing and confidence inspiring. Superior Ammunition loads 470NE ammunition with any bullet, along with a ton of other calibers; top-notch ammunition all around.

[@johnkeisterelquattro2553]

Sabatti?! Wow!! I haven’t heard that brand name in quite some time. Back in my youth in the late 90’s, I had a Sabatti 22LR with a bull barrel and walnut stocks… it used Ruger 10/22 mags. And man, talk about a tack driver!! That’s awesome!!! I thought it was some off brand Ruger 10/22 imitation and just forgot all about it since then. Now I just looked up that brand and I’m seeing these big game rifles in that brand he mentioned….. 😮😮 is all I can say!

[@davebone8326]

Largest cal. I've fired so far is the 600 Nitro express, from a German double rifle , recoil was not that bad.

[@Petethepigkilla]

Here is an idea for a talk, 358 Norma Mag. Talk about a versatile power house. If I were to make a "one gun for the world", I would definitely consider it.

[@Tradmark454]

Verney carron 450-400 nitro express. Hornady dgx bonded. Perfect regulation = fist sized exit hole in the largest whitetail ive ever shot. Epic

[@WayStedYou]

I really want an epsiode on the Hofer Hummingbird rifles now that Ryan has told us about them

[@AppleJack76]

9:20 Swinging that round around, like a UK police constable, swinging their baton, whistling.

[@leppardfan218]

The moment I seen the title I knew Mark Sullivan was going to be mentioned haha

[@chibineo24]

I'm really surprised y'all didn't invite Kentucky Ballistics out for this. He has some biggun safari rifles

[@James-nr7es]

If you like the old big bore rifles, check out the 2 bore and 4 bore rifles they use to used.

[@VisionGunworks]

If I could get a Merkel Helix Deluxe chambered in 6.5x55 Swedish that would be an amazing rifle. Dream rifle for sure

[@timeverett7828]

Did you forget about Heym double rifles! Very common in Africa!

[@wigglos]

Consider 7x65r, 8x57jrs or 9.3x74r as double rifle cartridges. Still popular here in europe for driven hunts

[@wesselgermeshuisen5249]

Guys, now you should do a Podcast on the .375H7H after this... an economical option.

[@almaynehughes840]

The Hornaday is probable the horst rond you can shoot out of a .470! I have bin guiding dangerous game in Africa for over 10 years and have almost lost my life twice because of Hornady ammunition failure!! we do not allow any hornaday ammunition on our Safaris for the last three years. With that said I truly love my .470 N.E and trusted with my life!

[@scotteger6271]

I think Jimmy had an epiphany that is really relevant when you look at cartridges like 45-70 in today’s age. Still a great cartridge and a lot of people still use it and love it, but look at more modern offering like 450 Marlin and what it brings to the table in a smaller package.

[@kodycavender666]

I really appreciate yall. I feel like im part of a gun family because im the only gun guy in my family

[@almaynehughes840]

I have a Merkel (Batch A) rifle that is a wonderful working rifle. We regulate our first leaf and the barrels at 50 yards.

[@E1337Jerk]

I know irons are classic on stopping rifles but red dots are so fast could be a game changer.

[@variableknife4702]

The barrels are regulated not just to a specific range, but also for a specific load. X grains of Y bullet at Z velocity will impact more or less inside a clay pigeon at the regulated range. You have to understand - the barrels are set at an angle to each-other - the bore axis for one is not parallel to the other. Double rifles are generally not long range affairs. You might think you're good to go taking a shot at 200 on heavy, dangerous game. Your PH may beg to differ and frankly it's just not often going to be the case. As the paying hunter, if you do feel comfortable with this, then the 375H&H or some flavor of 416 is probably your friend in a bolt - action. The PH will back you up - you keep your head and back him up. Yes, things can go that far south and right quickly.

[@jimmoseley2983]

A friend of mine has a Winchester Model 1860 lever action chambered in the 50-110. How does this caliber compare to the 470 NE? Another J Browning design.

[@K-bob_45]

I’ve shot one of these in a H&H double. Nice mild cartridge. My big rifle is a model 70 in 416 rem. The 470 had a milder recoil but it was a heavier gun. Also shot a 500 a square. There is definitely a maximum amount of recoil that I can enjoy. The 500 was beyond that.

[@willd7596]

A model 70 in .416 is a phenomenal rifle...

[@corvinking4996]

My .500 a-square is just a lot. Too much frankly. Looking toward a replacement. I’m fast and accurate with it, but only through using every bit of a couple decades of competitive shooting experience.

[@K-bob_45]

@@corvinking4996 on paper and on the shoulder I really like the 416’s. The rem mag is still pretty flat shooting and I doubt anything is gonna shrug off a 400 gr TSX at 2400 ft/sec.

[@shermrock345]

Yall kinda talked about it the other day but what about that guy who took a cape buffalo with a 8.6 blackout? Yall should do a episode about that and the 8.6 because it drilss deep.

[@csalsb]

Ryan if you want a working man’s gun. Then you go over to WJ Jeffery and get a 404 Jeffery. Many will tell you in Africa that the 416 Rigby got the glory but the 404 Jeffery did the heavy lifting. Just an FYI. The 404 is actually a .423 caliber. It is my do all dangerous game rifle. Such a fantastic load.

[@brandontanis388]

I'd want a matched set of doubles in .30-40 Krag, .348 Win, and .405 Win

[@robertharper8709]

Sounds like yall need to get in touch with Scott at Kentucky Ballistics to fire some of these big game cartridges. I think his guantlet of pain start with a 300 win. mag and ends with a 4 bore shoulder cannon.

[@jmgates09]

Yall still need to do a talk on the WSM cartridges

[@VortexNation]

All in due time my friend, all in due time!

[@jmgates09]

@@VortexNation i can't wait just like I can't wait for some 7wsm ammo

[@tonydevich7937]

Mark is looking at it like I have to try to shoot one

[@DaveL9170]

.375 H&H is much more versatile and can handle same large or dangerous game.

[@theprfesssor]

Yes.........and 375 Ruger is the superior 375, it's modern no belt shorter can fit in a standard action it can outperform the 375 h&h

[@BrettBaker-uk4te]

But .375, as awesome as it is, ain't a .470.

[@g24thinf]

The 375 H&H is the BARE minimum for dangerous game. You need something a bit more powerful to stop a pissed off Elephant or Buffalo.

[@willd7596]

This isn't false. With good shot placement a .375 H&H is a killer. But, those larger NE cartridges give you more versatility in varying situations. I talk about it in a post above. A good bolt action rifle in .375 H&H or .416 Rigby is more versatile overall, but the double rifles in NE are better in defensive scenarios... generally.

[@BrettBaker-uk4te]

@@g24thinf 9.3x62 for Buffalo, in some countries.

[@steviebby]

I couldn’t go past a 500nitro 3” verny carron that’s my stopper! 50 and 75 is plenty of distance

[@Calaveras32Spcl]

Maybe a discussion on the 4 Bore Rifle. Is a little bigger then the 6mm, so it might scare one of hosts.

[@scottt.miller8151]

I’d love to hear the history and relevance of the .300 Savage.

[@SCFLsporting]

How have we not done the 9.3x62 yet?

[@zacheryglennie2423]

What modern day lever action that 20-40 years from now will be praised and marveled at? Example Model 64 deluxe (the deer rifle) I want to start collecting rifles for me, but more importantly for my son and his kids.

[@kolerenwick2274]

Stellar stuff, but we NEEED a 9.3x62 show

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

I have a feeling that 500 Nitro stuck because, not only is it a Nitro Express, but its a whole ass half-inch. 460, 470, those are all nice, but much like how $2.99 is closer to 2 than 3 for most people, 470 is a 40, but 500 is a whole 5-freakin-hundred.

[@redgebendheim4646]

Do an 8.6 Blackout please!

[@brinkee7674]

B. Searcy in the US makes custom double rifles

[@dinoquintana4319]

I really like ryan and his knowledge. I will disagree on the big 7.150gr at 3000 is very sedate.3250fps is easily attainable with this stellar cartridge. The 175 grain at 2900 is superb elk medicine. I toted a model 70 super grade for 20 yrs.fantastic combo.i no longer hunt bull elk so i now shoot a 99 year old model 54 winchester in 30 government 06.cow elk are much easier to put down and i always felt the big seven was too destructive on mule deer up close.model 7 in708 rem for deer.a knowledgeable reloader can make make the big seven a true all around rifle even on big bears

[@hunterhyrns385]

More lead-ish balloons, Like, 7mm saum. Thanks and great content!

[@suelgregory6814]

2500 fps sounds high for the lott. I think your describing the 460 wby.

[@Alex-yg5uh]

Pretty sure Sullivan shot/shoots a HEYM 88B in 577 NE, HEYM make some of the best Doubles around.

[@joshh5853]

What a cartridge! I picked up a cz in 9.3x62 because the gun shop got stuck with it somehow, doesn’t hold a light to those bad boys though

[@willd7596]

If you are talking about a CZ 550 (BRNO style) in 9.3x62.... that rifle model has killed many many things in Africa and around the world. Do not sell it. The 9.3 is a true global cartridge. Great against deer, elk, bear, African plains game, big cats... even Buffalo if you are a good shot. The .470 NE might have greater umph... but the CZ550 in 9.3 is a workhorse of a rifle. Like the .35 Whelen, the 9.3 Mauser isn't as popular in the US as it should be, and needs more circulation and rifles chambered in it.

[@joshh5853]

It is a 550, I couldn’t agree more. I always wanted a big bore, no particular reason. I figured I’d end up with a 375 but then I stumbled upon that rifle by accident. Only complaint is ammo but it’s not exactly a range gun anyways!

[@willd7596]

@@joshh5853 Ammo is available and out there if you look on-line.

[@WayStedYou]

the 550 has been discontinued so its probably worth a lot more than you paid for it now @@joshh5853

[@MrJtin69]

I miss my 460 weatherby :(

[@FMDad-dm5qo]

Lmao @ “it looks like a Glock barrel”

[@Funting3417]

Next time on 10ish minute talk the 340 weatherby magnum

[@RumblestripDotNet]

458 Win Mag would be a good "modern" equivelent that you could download, no?

[@edwardabrams4972]

The 458 win is way under powered unless you reload for it and then is still not that great compared to a lot of the other cartridge that are available! Check on KZbin and see how many actually hunt with the 458 win and you will find the 375 and the 416 are so much more popular and better choices

[@shanem628]

7x57 Mauser!!!

[@mikemelina7395]

"Are you ready?...Let's go."- Mark Sullivan. He shoots a Hime Mark Sullivan Designed Sidelock .577Nitro rifle. I've also seen videos where he shot a .600Nitro. Sullivan is a different kind of human being. "I walk up to a buffalo and I'm picking a fight." - Mark Sullivan

[@timeverett7828]

It seems as though the 416'S are king now in Africa now. 416 rem, 416 Rigby, 416 Ruger.

[@calebhanson6108]

Can we get a 405 Winchester cartridge talk

[@NomadicHacker.]

My biggest complaint about this episode is that KZbin only lets my like it once.

[@clayjones1063]

Also the 700 nitro express 600 overkill 585 nayti 577 tyrannosaurus

[@exodusz19]

Do the 9.3x74R

[@shawncoleman2280]

B. Searcy & Co make double rifles in the US

[@SirWhiteRabbit-gr5so]

Lion at 15-yards !!

[@davidbaker4838]

Recoil?

[@timeverett7828]

404 Jeffrey please!!

[@thomasdaniel6495]

Sullivan- .577. He tells it in a video where a client is using a .500 and Sullivan dropped the buff on its nose,and he turns and tells the client that there is the difference between the two.

[@tombotting3345]

Lets see what the .470 Nitro Express will do to ballistic gel!