126. Dr Orion Taraban

[@MichaelSartain]

0:00 Intro 1:02 *The price valuation of sex 7:09 Reconciling dating apps 10:05 *Defining sexual marketplace value 14:16 The $50,000 beer 17:31 *The attempted mutiny 25:37 Escorts and prostitution 28:56 *The five outcomes for women 32:37 Making the other wait for sex 34:35 The three genders 36:17 How men can improve themselves 40:33 Attraction proxies 44:45 *Evolutionary mismatches and survival scenarios 48:09 *Testosterone in women 49:52 *Cheating 56:46 Being famous is like being a woman 1:03:14 *The evolution of Orion’s KZbin channel 1:11:02 The impact of fame 1:17:37 Cowardice is men’s greatest enemy 1:22:11 *Force women to advance the relationship 1:27:12 *Differences in the perception of attraction 1:30:12 *Women disrespect men unintentionally 1:32:03 *It is impossible for a woman to love a man she doesn’t respect 1:38:44 *The part women always leave out 1:44:10 Male self-improvement is not real for women 1:51:17 Disappointing women 1:54:10 *The concept of pre-selection 2:04:12 Perfect vs imperfect information 2:05:56 The pitfalls of being super attractive 2:11:26 If you punish the truth, you’re asking to be lied to 2:14:58 Becoming your own prophet 2:18:31 The reason for writing the book 2:23:45 Outro

[@ronniemejia2521]

Dr.Orion is the man!!! Unspoken topic and difficult truths of life. Life is not Disney world.

[@TTGTanner]

Unspoken?

[@ronniemejia2521]

@@TTGTanner yea it’s taboo unspoken. Society does not consider or present romantic relationships to be transactional. It’s always presented as love acceptance of each other. Dr.Orion is telling us the ugly truth it’s all based on what you bring to the table on both sides.

[@ElFaroInvisible]

@@ronniemejia2521i completely agree

[@bigneiltoo]

@@TTGTanner Unspoken by women.

[@perpetualprocrastinator]

Podcast with women included : Snorefest Podcast without women : Intellectually electrifying

[@KD400_]

Exactly

[@MBheli621]

Can you imagine ever hearing any woman say what he’s saying? It would blow me away

[@everettwalker2258]

💯💯💯💯

[@MrSub132]

@drwayne_carter9115 More like asking a toddler to explain quantum physics. Women are in a superposition of being a victim and empowered at all times. Any male actions will collapse the system into the least usefull and realistic state for the man. They will use both states to disorient and confuse you into turning into a simp she can use and throw out.

[@bigneiltoo]

Studies show that when just men are in the room they compete to be best but when a woman is inserted the men all change to try to not offend and/or please the woman.

[@Ace7XX]

Psychacks killed this interview. Fucking love this dude.

[@Ghekko-kw3zz]

Psych PhD with perfect use of profanity, always so interesting.

[@luminyam6145]

Omg I love this man too, he is so good. He understands us all so well.

[@user-ew3hh1mv9l]

Orion T is one of the best in the space. Highly recommend his book

[@greymeshmask551]

This is hands down the most valuable podcast I've ever listened to. And while I wish Mike and Dr Orion all the success, the selfish side of me wishes that this particular gem remain hidden in the depths of the internet out of reach of the masses.

[@mrdouche9172]

psyhacks is one of the best guests when it comes to these things he never disappoints

Amazing interaction between Dr. Taraban and Michael. We need at least two more collaborations

[@WHOTHIZOE]

The depth is simplistically insane

[@in4theride75]

Women universally conflate the word courtesy with respect. When women say "respect women" what they actually mean is be courteous.

[@TGP109]

No, we don't. Respect is respect, being courteous is simply good manners.

[@in4theride75]

@@TGP109 Respect is earned deference, admiration, or esteem. I've never in my life heard a women use respect in it's proper context. They always use respect to mean polite behavior which is courtesy.

[@RPPraxeologist]

​@@TGP109you have to earn respect from Men, woman. that's how it works

[@jonbutton3259]

​​@@TGP109 - the confusion here is one of definitions. Like Orion days: respect means different things to men and women. We done innately define that word the same way. The cheat code to success is for both to get on the same page about it. Negotiate it even, if necessary.

[@Shaggytheking]

Michael is right on about women not believing in male self development, They really think the men they deal with were always like this and they didn't have to do anything to become who they are to even appear on women's radar. It's actually baffling to me why that happens.

[@Ghekko-kw3zz]

Different focus, women's is 80%+ about "here, now, my feelings, my imagination". Men's is 80% about status & heirarchy.

[@0000FFz]

They can’t afford to picture their ideal man as ever being any less.

[@jessemiller3108]

Well, they don't have to, so why would we need to develop and earn sexual interest? I mean, men and women are the same right?!

[@jcvanbreugel]

The more attractive a woman is, the less she needs to develop character. At least that’s her perception, a lot of the time. Why change or improve yourself when there are so many men ready and willing to court her? For men it’s a must to develop themselves.

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

Fucking stupidity, facts are facts

[@ElenasBarre]

Great show, Mike ! 🔥❤️👏🙏 Really enjoyed it.🙏 I love Orion's content and psychology and I'm glad you were able to get him on. 🤩🔥👏

[@greymeshmask551]

I am going to watch this podcast again and I'm going to take notes. Incredibly valuable!

[@markcity1343]

I am glad Dr. T called out how this channel alienates men.

[@brianmeen2158]

There are aspects of red pill that is not helping men at all. I see more and more men that act like they have no chance of attracting any women since they are 5’7 and don’t make 6 figures

[@SwordAgainstChaos]

Timestamp?

[@abinadabagbo1603]

Timestamp please?

[@markcity1343]

36:17 but before he talk about 3 gender. HVM, women, and you losers 😂

[@markcity1343]

Lots of msgs being deleted

[@ronniemejia2521]

Great interview complex subject broken down for everyone to learn. 🔥 🔥 🔥

[@10use]

This guy knows a thing or two about the birds and the bees.

[@KyleMcDermott1]

😅😅

[@IfSemper]

Reading Orion's new book, The Value of Others, now. Entertaining interview!

[@NilsMacQ]

His book is insane, it's so detailed I loved it.

[@MaccusFNS]

The best guest on your show ever

[@funygameur]

02:11:00 - "If you punish the truth you'll be lied to"

[@chrism6764]

Just started Dr Taraban's book on Audible. The chapters are long and very dense with information but I'm loving it.

[@0000FFz]

It’s the same as listening to his videos. I love it. Listened twice already.

[@alexl.4362]

Dr. Orion is a Beast

[@TheBlackfox1115]

My soon to be ex-wife fits the category in which they're talking about sexual marketplace value. Many women think it's a flex to have a "line of guys" looking to hook up with them. But like Taraban and Sartain said, it's just about short-term sexual access. Those men don't want to take care of you, they just want box.

[@TGP109]

Gee, really? As if women aren't aware of that from age 12? What planet do you live on that you can think the way you do?

[@stevec3526]

@@TGP109Obviously you are clueless about many women out there. The commenter is exactly right. Besides that, do you know his ex-wife??

[@davidlandrum]

1:58:00 They gave away the sauce!!! As a photographer, this is absolutely 100% true. Females will instantly throw it back when they see your camera. Not a dinky camera either. Full mirrorless, lens , flash. 👈🏻 Shout out to the late, great Kevin Samuels for offering this tip years ago. 🙏🏻

[@mrdouche9172]

Is being a photographer the cheatcode when it comes to fcking a lot of hot women? I remember Terry Richardson did very well back in the day.

[@stx77]

Excellent podcast!

[@TheGringowashere]

Fire pod!

[@stevec3526]

There is a definite connection between testosterone levels and male confidence. Psychological factors do definitely play into it too. 😊

[@RPPraxeologist]

invisibility is useful if you can choose it, the issue is that a lot of guys have it foisted upon them and that's a bad sentence for a man. Being invisible as a man is a death sentence, you have to take risks, and that's part of the reasons why men have lower life expentancies because being perpetually invisible and low status has enormous survival and reproductive consequences for men and they are willing to do all kinds of things to stand out and make something happen Great quote

[@Hashveen]

Great guest. Smart guy.

[@michael1001t]

Choice options for women are recent in human history. This is the real problem. Choices caused confusion. Consequently, loneliness became epidemic for all

[@wowerman]

Great chat.I missed first hour.I hope it can be viewed again.

[@mdhazeldine]

This is the best podcast I've ever heard Orion do. Such a wide range of interesting topics discussed, some of which I've not heard talked about before. I think I'll have to listen to this one twice!

[@funygameur]

01:04:30 - What are the dangers for sucess : Don't say anything you wouldn't pride of the whole word knowing you said.

[@wilsonvicente5147]

Please upload at 1440p at least to avoid 1080p compression, uploading at 1080p youtube compress it so bad that it looks like 480p

[@benjamin5726]

What he said about Frankenstein at 1:40 was right on point.

[@Farmer151]

The thumbnail looks like yall arresting someone 😂

[@RicherThanIeverbeen]

Epic convo, fellas.

[@kevinfurr3311]

These podcasts are much better than the roundtable shows with the bimbos. This is the first of these that I have watched as you mentioned it on the other show. I do have to add that I would not have gotten here to your long form podcast without seeing a couple of the roundtable shows. This particular show has been superb. The discussion towards the end was just disappointing in showing how shallow women are.

[@TGP109]

''Bimbo'' is an Italian word for a MAN, not a woman.

[@funygameur]

Orion is so good at what he does that he said something once that's been stuck with me for tree months. I loved it so much I inserted in a discourse I made at the public senate of my country !

[@davida.taylor8444]

Curious, but what was it?

[@bettinariedel4402]

Two curious men- very excited and hardly breathing because of the topic…about to reeaaaaaly know women in front of Orion T 🥳😂😂😂😂😂😂🥳

[@jdheryos4910]

Good show. Point of order: Unlike a business. Dating market place does not rely on personal business collapse if no sale is made. So lowering ones expectations does not result in a financial personal loss for either man or women. However, in the majority of cases, thier is always a running financial deficient in dating for men. Aside from sex. If you're getting your companionship needs meet by online girlfriend either AI or OF. Then for a large minority of men the sex drought is tolerable. Inversely, if your getting your sex needs from pros, then again for financially solvent large minority of men, having female work friends etc is tolerable. There is no way out of this. Women will crash civilization. Luckily for us, the earth has many human civilizations, not one. The issue is what happens if the competition between civilizations to win through fails. Then we have an extinction crisis. We far from that as of yet. That's all. Thanks.

[@Ghekko-kw3zz]

The internet is rapidly demolishing boundaries.

[@Stanthemilkman]

A huge pool of men have always never bred. Through out history. Darwinist sexual selection.

[@jdheryos4910]

@@Ghekko-kw3zzNo A new civilization project has just been born. Russia has just declared itself the Great Civilization of the North. There is a very recently released Russian documentary from Russia. Reposted on KZbin, where ideologues, philosophers, religious clerics, historians, ex military, academics etc have come together in Russia to formulate the establishment of an already 1'000 year civilization quite seperate from Western (Indo-European) civilization. In the age of globalisation and the internet we have seen the return of the Chinese civilization. The return of the Indian civilization and even the rebirth of the Persian civilization (despite the best efforts of the Muhammadan priests of Iran). The great contradiction of this Anglo American globalisation since World War 2 has been the return of the great civilizations. So ipso facto with all due respect, your wrong.

[@Ghekko-kw3zz]

@@jdheryos4910 unless you go to these places & mingle with college students & recent graduates- the future makers- & find out what really goes on. Tehran has a crazy party scene behind closed doors. Russia's economy is about the same size as Florida's.

[@Stanthemilkman]

@@jdheryos4910 Jesus dude get off you computer and go for a run. Can you run? It’ll stop you from acting all tismy

[@garydrago]

Oh hell yeah

[@TruthsSake]

1:41:52 Actually the math does work out. If about 4% of the population are narcissists, that would agree with the fact that most attractive women are chasing after the top 10% or so of men. And if 4% are diagnosed as narcissists, more could no be diagnosed with NPD, but could have some strong narcissistic tendencies. And narcissistic traits greatly overlap with successful, high achieving, high status men. And so if all those women are saying they dated narcissists, it’s because they’re all going after plastic surgeons who work on celebrities, real estate developer/brokers, CEO’s, actors, popular athletes, etc.

[@JayEs31]

Sartain should ask more questions instead of trying to interject w endless things to try to show how smart he is. Makes for horrible interview and poor interview w guest

[@rubioalvin]

Dr. Orion is awesome. Great video guys

[@razer0072073]

14:16 15:45 28:56 38:52 52:00 53:25 54:49 58:32 1:10:18 1:20:55 1:22:24 1:24:20 1:27:20 1:34:18 1:37:38 1:43:15 1:50:30 1:54:10 P 1:55:20 1:58:10 1:58:44 2:01:05 2:02:24

[@donkeydrop]

love it! Looking forward to getting his book from Amazon!

[@TroutCreative]

Very thought provoking interview. I liked the part about “local fame” it’s a flip on something I’ve always observed as “subculture status” where a woman may be an unknown 5 walking around LA but she puts on a vintage dress, goes to Viva Las Vegas, and suddenly she is an 8 as a pinup model in the rockabilly scene. It’s only become worse as more and more people try to carve out a niche on twitch/OF/instagram.

[@manawa3832]

young women will absolutely chase you if you're both handsome and that guy. this happened to me between 16-23. stunted me because once my looks faded and I was dealing with older women, I had no rizz.

[@therealjd1503]

Yep, I went through the same thing

[@RPJs-Cuisine]

Saw O'brian and hit the gas Ninja!!! Thats my guy!

[@NilsMacQ]

100% 🔥

[@maximushung]

O'brian? you mean orion or o'brain.

[@jonbutton3259]

Autocorrect

[@christopherwolf3134]

Great discussion Mike thanks!

[@StrawhatJeff]

The thumbnail looks like Orion is getting arrested

[@bolt-dbtfg]

1:00 Because online dating is so heavily about physical, good looks. I imagine men who are not that great physically good looking can feel very despondent. And very low value when they get little of zero attention. but if those men try to have interactions with women in real life were there is more opportunity to build up a connection and show off their personality, they would probably find they've got a lot more value to women, doing face-to-face than they do on an online dating app or social media platform.

[@funygameur]

01:06:07 - Orion's recommandation on how to open a KZbin channel

[@sallysmith3885]

Fantastic episode! Orion has a great way of packaging information. Also, love the episodes that don't have all the 304s babbling, interrupting, and talking over each other.

[@JoseFernandez-ih1hd]

Tristan Darshan, some questions needed to be elaborated on, and I did not like that you interrupted Orion before he was done talking. This is not a good practice for a psychologist. I really enjoyed your insight on some subjects. I hope to see you in upcoming episodes.

[@kce6025]

Seems like the interviewers went overboard on coffee just prior to interview. Great topic. Thx!

[@Coachchuateckguan]

Great confluence of smart minds.

[@AndresD.deLeon]

What an amazing show, nothing but pure genius and intellect on display

[@StanfordtheArtist]

Man this was a very interesting and learnful podcast. Orion and Michael is a combo I for one would love to see more of in the future. Thank you gentlemen!

[@oftenthisawesome2485]

Bro I love the hbo theme that’s fire af

[@JM-vf8tk]

Not used to seeing Sartain this quiet 😂😂

[@improover113]

we want more with the DR

[@jonathannavarrete9162]

I was investigating and it shows up as "I am the T" but I can find it on youtube also as the way the doctor describes it does not shows on KZbin

[@catsnchords]

1:45:20 This is such a great insight by Mike. Women hate Game for this reason. When they imagine Game, they picture a room full of short/ugly/awkward/shy/creepy/poor men learning how to press a few magic buttons to trick women into sleeping with them. It's the flip side of hypergamy can't wait - women are paranoid of being tricked into settling for a beta.

[@fightsoup]

Hmmmm it seems like these guys including Dr. Orion have a young/warped perspective on what women want. I'm a 48 year old guy in NYC who organizes social and singles events and I find that very attractive women over 30 are very interested in grabbing a beer with a nice, normal, intelligent guy and really not that worried about going on yachts in Dubai. Maybe it's a problem with the younger attractive women who grew up in the Instagram influenced era. I notice tons of smart, beautiful women over 30 really just want a cool/normal guy (although I will say they they still tend to gravitate more towards more classically handsome guys who are over 5'9 or so).

[@brutalbrainwash]

​@jaredmello The over 30 women are generally more mature and have learned to value the things that really matter. A kind, sincere guy. They've already dated the "bad boys" and the guys trying to show of on yachts with fancy sports cars etc. and are ready for a REAL man. My hot female friends in their 30s have zero interest in guys that know the cool spots or wear expensive jewelry etc. It's not about them being pressure to have babies soon or all that stuff you've been taught (mostly in books written by guys... lol). They just finally start to "get it" in their 30s after falling for things like big muscles, the hot nightclubs, cheesy tattoos, etc. in their 20s. They start to become a fully developed human being appreciating the things that matter.

[@brutalbrainwash]

​​@@jaredmelloLol you keep sounding like a young guy influenced by all the books written by men geared toward telling young guys "don't put her on a pedestal" stuff. That kind of psychology stuff is probably helpful to get young men past certain phases but I'm a guy in his 50s with more perspective. If you're still thinking in ways of "who puts whose needs ahead of the other " etc it shows you're still in the younger phases of dating ritual thinking. Start thinking as a human being and try to be more advanced than the David Deida and pickup artist rhetoric and the world is your oyster.

[@jaredmello]

@@brutalbrainwash in my experience, the people like you who say what a “REAL” man does are trying to manipulate and guilt and shame others. You also come off as pretty condescending and patronizing and you don’t even realize it.

[@SF-ue3le]

@@jaredmello I think he was intentionally being condescending because you're saying young, inexperienced kind of things. Oh man now using woke terminology like shaming.

[@jaredmello]

@@SF-ue3le you both have given me some great content ideas on how not to communicate. Thank you.

[@romeobodeodo]

Great conversation to all concerned. Tristan, Michael, and Orion, cheers. Thanks for the wisdom.

[@kiariemk]

Guys having a clear, concise, logical discussion respectfully, where truth is spoken and validated none of those strained conversations with women full of I feel like I feel like, I can't speak for other women, in my personal and all other bulshit deflection tactics to deny simple observable truth, I love it.

[@Methy_Watches]

psy hack mazeing guy and perspective

[@Darknight526]

1:06:43 Great stuff, thanks Doc! :)

[@funygameur]

01:02:08 - Orion : "I dislike social media" "I don't get high on my own supply"

[@shantatb6158]

Dr Rayan Taraban explaining RP, evolutionary psychology, inter sexual dynamics with symplyfying words, Sartain engaged TB very well.

[@stevec3526]

Orion

[@1989Mordwin]

This date went so well, that tomorrow she was anxiously waiting by the phone until she couldn't wait any longer and had to be the first to reach out.

[@carecree888]

The Doc is being liiiitle hyperbolic as it relates to “there are no more small ponds”. Most people do not want to date someone who doesn’t live near them. Especially if they have friends and family in their city or town and have no plans of uprooting their life. You’re still just mostly competing against people around your age who live in a 15 mile radius where you live. That shrinks that pond down considerably.

[@soccerspidy18]

I agree with all attraction proxies. How to rizz up women, just lie down story time. As long as they are engaged and “feel” the nonsense they don’t care. Game trumps all cues. magic is a lie and so is game. You owe them nothing gentlemen if you want to smash don’t be amazing magical just be a magician with words and story. Idk why they none of these guy will just directly say game is indirect lying

[@NilsMacQ]

Anyone have a link to the T study? I typed "T Therapy f to m" and didnt' find anything

[@toastyfellow1]

He's referring to the kind of anecdotal quips mentioned by several transgender men (female to male). It's not a particular study. But if you search for that kind of content on KZbin. You'll find them talking about it.

[@kurtvanluven9351]

Great chat. Gotta go.

[@hurrikane1449]

I just knew mike was going to mention to Dr Orion his gf is a bikini contestant lol.

[@stevec3526]

Mike has an ego issue.

[@bigcockedman714]

any women can be a bikini contestant

[@martian.07_]

Great conversation

[@theoptimizedparent]

Great interview

[@bolt-dbtfg]

56:00 high status etc is just being viewed through the lens of Advantage to her. Men with an abundance of advantages to HER is still more of an advantage to Her being shared than having a lower advantage man all to herself. two men can do the exact same thing. But If one's man's advantages TO HER is too diluted when it's been shared with other women (cheating) then women are not going to stand for that behaviour FROM HIM.

[@t-lawsfitness6044]

Erm are the back and front real and natural? Just curious

[@who_is_dis]

I honestly don’t blame men giving up. If anything if men give up en masse, it would potentially be the only thing that turns things around.

[@Daytrader922]

Live???

[@AndreCHatchett]

If Michael would talk less and not feel the need to always prove his point. This would be a 10.

[@jonmcmahon90292]

🙏

[@brentcastro10987]

High Status Men are Chris Hemworth and Jason Moama. A lot of "high status men" who consider themselves high status men aren't.

[@markcity1343]

Ironically we keep picking Moama and Chris. Jeff Beso is 100x more high value and masculine. but i guess we need the aesthetics. How are we defining "high status"?

[@julesvideoarchive]

Goat orator

[@darwinmolina8531]

Happy to see how far you have come Michael. Great fucking guess

[@ridiqul]

Locked in for this one 🔒

[@teok8855]

I would love for you guys to talk to Dr. K / HealthyGamerGG mostly because he disagrees with you guys and I value seeing debates or different ideas clash!

[@jaredmello]

What does Dr. K disagree with specifically?

[@Emin.V.Aliyev1]

Orion is awesome

[@Sterh20]

I didn't understand why women leave the quiet part out? Why it is rational for them?

[@Stanthemilkman]

I wanted him to say why it’s so difficult to date a female doctor when you’re not a doctor. I can assume but I’d like him to say it. I’m a 35 year old single dad engineer dating 23 year old med student. So I can wait. It fun.

[@rogerteaminski6351]

Because women primarily are attracted to status and doctors are one of the highest status professions, and also one of the highest paid.

[@mrleomich]

If that one fails, you’ll be able to meet another 100 23yo girls. I’m 61, and my girls are aged 24-29yo. She doesn’t know that, and most of them, Dr or not, will. E out of the market by age 35-40. Of course they can open their legs to the flies, but these would never get a man like me.

[@mrleomich]

But the way, the women I loved and cherished into marriage for 15 years was a Dr. she also eventually thought she was valued more than me, even though I made 2-3x what she made as an engineer. Live it up buddy.

[@Stanthemilkman]

@@mrleomich and then what happened?

[@mrleomich]

@@Stanthemilkman , she left, we divorced, I was crushed. Had many GFs since, and she lives with her mom now. I say that not to boast over but with regret that I invested a great chunk of my life on her, had a fun life, was faithful, and yet that was not good enough for her.

[@funygameur]

02:24:22 - "I'm not here to enrage man or to alienate women. Any kind of long term solution in the sexual market place needs to be paletable for both sexes. Or else it's not viable in the long term."

[@THEMANMINDSET1971]

When will they interview men WITH REAL STREET GAME?

[@zdeg1]

the taraban is a G

[@Youdontwantnonebyatch]

Dr T awesome as always !! Yo to the host of the pod, dude you notice how often you don’t finish a complete thought and you just switch over to a side bar ? So annoying ! And for a fly by night dating coach bro, you should let the expert talk waaay more !

[@MichaelSartain]

1. It’s called asking different questions. That’s how interviews work. Sorry that’s too advanced for you. 2. I’m a fly by night dating coach who started in 2008 and has over 1600 paying clients. You’re exactly the kind of loser KZbin commenter we talk about on our show 😂 Move out of your mom’s house bro

[@nikeisagreekgoddess4135]

2:05:07 - I've seen him make those diametric comparisons that are just so unnecessary. Women never stop being attractive to men. Single or taken. Most men will have a sexual encounter with a partnered woman they find desirable, if she presents the opportunity. The mate guarding strategies described by EvoPsych are the best evidence of this. Men in relationships will always have to apply some pressure on their partners as a response to jealousy inducing emotions. Those same men will engage in aggressive speech, attitudes and, if needed, escalate to violent acts in order to preserve what they value about their partner. Internet men who unfollow internet women because they are in relationships has nothing to do with reality. It has everything to do with the attachment those men develop to their internet fantasy as narrated by the publications their preferred internet women make available to them. This is to say that given the absence of a real sexual opportunity, these men's behaviors are proportionally irrelevant. The woman violated the terms of the fantasy and the withdrawal of attention is the immediate penalty. That doesn't exist in reality, it only exists in virtuality.

[@TonganJedi]

When you approach a woman and she's attracted to you, she'll respond well. When she's not attracted to you, she'll think you're creepy. It's all about attraction.

[@Lungelo_K_Moshoela]

Completely agree, I gauge the attraction of women by how many YESes than NOes you get from them.

[@maximushung]

1:57:00 why do these guys confuse preselection with social proofing. the latter is having a bunch of women, preferably attractive, around you. social proofing shows women are comfortable with you. preselection is actually having dated, slept with, and/or having a relationship with an attractive woman. hence, previously another woman has already vetted and selected you. women aren't stupid to know the difference between guys who aren't awkward with women vs. guys who actually were selected by other (hot) women - a huge difference.

[@RPPraxeologist]

yes they are stupid