Psychologist Explains Women's Dating Strategies & Why Young Men FAIL (ft. PsycHacks)

Doctor Orion Taraban is a clinical psychologist and owner of the PsycHacks KZbin channel.@psychacks
In this episode we discuss the psychology of dating, the behavioral economics of dating and how those two things make men and women have very different incentives and approaches
Thank you for listening!
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⏰TIMESTAMPS⏰
00:00 INTRO
00:14 Why Women Go to Therapy 3 Times More Than Men
03:27 Is Therapy Better Fit for Women?
05:58 Men Find External Solutions to Internal Problems
10:55 Why Modern Men Are Struggling in Dating
13:30 Learning to Deal With Rejection
15:50 The Romantic Ideal: Men Have Been Lied To
20:53 Society’s Definition of Love Is Toxic
23:22 Jesus: How Much Sacrifice Does Love Require?
27:59 Loving Without Expecting Anything in Return
30:23 "Love People Like Cats"
32:29 Wounded People Recreate Their Traumatic Relationships
35:05 The Crossroads: Where Decisions Really Matter
37:14 How to Avoid Being Blinded by Emotions
39:27 Stopping Negative Thought Cycles
44:23 The Core of Mental Disorders: “Self-Focused Attention”
45:34 The Surprising Power of Stepping Away From Alcohol
47:22 The Black Pill: Young Men Giving Up on Life
51:46 The Antidote to Hopelessness
53:10 Being a Young Man Is Tough
54:49 Should You “Grind Out” Your 20s?
57:11 What It Means to Be a Man in 2023
1:01:19 The Changing Definitions of Masculinity and Femininity
1:05:05 Masculinity: “To Have a Spine and to Have a Pair”
1:07:40 Covid and Conformity
1:09:56 Having a Healthy Level of Self-Doubt
1:11:21 When Should You Stand Up Against the Crowd?
1:13:54 Is “Masculinity/Femininity” a Productive Framework?
1:17:30 Why Women Are Frustrated With Modern Dating
1:20:26 “Women Are Still Waiting for the Offer”
1:22:12 Why 99% of Women Will Be Disappointed
1:26:23 Can Evolutionary Psychology Explain Dating?
1:28:15 Forming Relationships: Can Compatibility Beat Status?
1:30:24 Beauty Doesn’t Make a Happy Relationship
1:32:04 “Find Your Ugly Duckling”
1:33:26 The Dark Horse Strategy
1:35:41 Debate: Do Looks/Finances Really Matter That Much?
1:39:16 Personality Disorders = Childhood Coping Mechanisms
1:41:39 Uncovering Internal Wounds Without Becoming a Victim
1:47:33 Can You Take on Too Much Responsibility?
1:48:59 You’re Not Always the Problem
1:51:16 The Pros and Cons of Spirituality
1:54:22 The Point of Religion: “A Felt Connection With the Divine”
1:57:37 People Never Love Each Other Exactly the Same Amount
2:00:05 Check Out PsycHacks on KZbin and oriontarabanpsyd.com
Watch the last episode here:
• 5 Personality Patterns...
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[@fhdb478]

'The game changes at 30'. I've heard that so often and i fully understand the scientific reasoning behind it. Just, from my experience, I got the most female attention in my early to mid 20s. I'm 36 now, fitter than ever, better grooming habits, a basic understanding of fashion, have a career, took exemplary care of my teeth, but the attention or just openness towards me dropped close to zero. I wouldn't recommend anyone to 'wait'. If it doesn't work out yet, just continue to improve yourself. As Dr. Taraban said in a video on his channel, improving yourself ultimately serves you and not others (women). If you end being single but the best version of yourself, you are still the best version of yourself.

[@khairt1731]

Thats weird. Im 38 and I noticed a rise in attention and attraction ever since I turned 30.

[@fhdb478]

@@khairt1731 that's all good and I'm happy for you. It's really my experience that is the opposite. I just want to contribute my experience. Men should not assume that their attractiveness rises after 30 just because the average says so. I'm actually ok with that in my case. I'm married. It's just that I have to approach people regularly on events for my job and I get a lot of female disregard immediately, despite never implying anything flirty. So I focus on approaching men which works pretty well.

[@landedzentry]

That goes against the average stats as far as I know. Look for other factors...in Yr 20s Yr lifestyle, exposure to women was different? 10-15 years later though - women are more bonkers.

[@mreese8764]

​@@fhdb478 Might be it's your wedding ring?

[@darthcholo]

Dating is different now than 15 years ago. Gotta assimilate with the times.

[@georgeharvey3062]

Wow! “ The highest form of love is to give and be invisible “. That is one of the most profound quotes explaining the selflessness of love I’ve ever heard. Imagine on Christmas Day a child opening a present they thought they received from Santa when actually it was you who gave the present. The warmth you get from that is immeasurable.

[@moviesynopsis001]

Its a good way to live if you like being used. Why should some chick who sucks off 10 other guys while dating you just be given free stuff because she has a gash between her legs? This is exactly the reason alot of men have cut ties and are going their own way.

[@Luemm3l]

I tend to disgree here. on a moral level, that is prolly the highest level of love. I give a lot and it feels good, I also am invisible to most people, but just yesterday i did something for others, but had to pay like I often do, but it not felt good. It can make you a cynic to just give, give, give, not wanting anything in return for it, but also not getting any thanks, being taken for granted in return and yet if you ask for help, more often than not, you do not get any help. it makes you a cynic, wondering if something like true love for yourself even exists. my mom even said to me and I quote "you are too much of a good guy, you let people walk all over you". yet whenever I would speak up for myself, against her for example, ironically she would hold that then against me. damned if you do, damned if you dont. I have just given up on finding love, bettering myself, but also society in general.

[@georgeharvey3062]

@@Luemm3l you have to be willing to accept the FACT that “no good deed goes unpunished “. This means you have to accept the good deed you do as the reward for yourself because there is always something you don’t expect that happens because of the good deed you do. The reward I get is the feeling I get when I give to or help someone. That is my joy and now I fully expect some consequences may happen to me because of it but I accept it. It is quite possible that is why I like to remain anonymous. Just yesterday I donated to a Gofundme to a family i barely know with a child who has leukemia and I chose to be anonymous. I do not want adulation it’s the feeling I get for helping that makes me tick. Maybe on a subconscious level I’m hoping God will smile down on me. I don’t know. I’m not super religious but maybe…

[@JoshC-End-Abortion-Fear-God]

I agree

[@user-mo7si4eh9m]

@@Luemm3l I agree. Alot of codependent people will tell you they "love hard." I guess its a fine line and has to be reciprocated.

[@alicebombeeck5384]

Indeed... Nobody selects someone just for 'who they are. .'It's always a matter of what 'value' they add .. The whole idea that romantic love is 'unconditional' is an illusion.. from both perspectives

[@KD400_]

Romantic love is very new. Most married because of customs and rules. This romantic love was a womans idea not a man

[@ethanieldude1]

​@@KD400_ I disagree, I feel men are more romantic than women.

[@planlosubertroffen2282]

@@ethanieldude1 yep. i guess thats true. Thanks for bursting my Illusion. :) well thinks happen. maybe a simp Illusion.

[@mysterio1570]

@@ethanieldude1 Men are more romantic than women. Men are more shattered if a woman betrays him. I have seen it happen in my own life with male friends. Women friends, don't seem that shattered by the loss of a love relationship. Why? Love prospects are easier for women that can from guy to guy than vice versa.

[@floofygod]

Unconditional love definitely exists, however people misunderstand what that means.

[@steflift5165]

Great to hear Dr Orion as a guest - he definitely needs to do this more to be able to take advantage of longer video formats to give his thoughts and follow a train of thought along many dimensions (could even start doing them a la Andrew Huberman). Great interviewer too

[@JoshC-End-Abortion-Fear-God]

Agree

[@kisms8590]

The next Jordan Peterson. Dr orion. Well done. Demonstrates mastery of human spirit. Eccelectic, charming, witty, and genuine scholar to serve.

[@Blackgents]

He does consultations. Money talks 🤑

[@CamQTR]

My experience with therapists, went to more than a dozen, the female therapists don't understand, nor sympathize with, Men. Male therapists are more interested in whichever pretty young women is scheduled for the next hour.

[@ethanieldude1]

As a man you're on your own. Mentally and financially.

[@abde4645]

@ethanieldude1 true we can't rely on anyone. But we will still make it

[@VaronPlateando]

self-respecting, rational gents should forget about xx.s as therapists. in better case, they just don't get 'it' (implying mere digression), or for whatever any gents' experienced problems may amount to in life: it's another spot of the larger battlefield.

[@JimiJames528]

I would think female therapist are very useful. Much like a female dating coach, just do the opposite of what she's suggesting and you'll be right 99% of the time.

[@VaronPlateando]

@@JimiJames528 well, that would hold if there were black vs white only. but if she says 'yellow', you still may fare better with green, orange, of even black (all 'non-yellow', literally). and to translate into best fitting alternative, takes time, and nerves (which may not be there in excess, as would one seek therapy otherwise, at all ?!?).

[@sergiootero5904]

As a Philadelphia Eagles fan, I can relate to the diacussion about hope. Sometimes it truly is the greatest evil.

[@christianzulawski9384]

Bang Bang Niner Gang!!

[@eemmvvee3155]

this guy is incredibly wise, great guest

[@nyahhbinghi]

yes

[@HonkHonkler]

Would rather be alone than be a man that a woman "emotionally" settles for and behind my back sexually goes for someone else. Yeah, loneliness is a pain I can endure more. And if you're as plugged in and aware of... Existence/time/space etc. as me, you don't trust ANY women. You KNOW.

[@fausto412]

I'm with you bro.

[@DD-xw6uw]

It’s better to be alone than to be with a woman that’s not a real girlfriend or wife. If you’re alone atleast you get to live life how you want and all your money is your money. If you’re with a terrible girlfriend or wife you’ll have the worse life and then when she leaves you she could take half of everything

[@kikobiko7088]

I am woth you 100%

[@viewyview]

Would rather me “partnered” than be like all the Asian women in my life who settled, resent and constantly belittle their partner. Having a good life just by myself.

[@bishop1283]

true

[@Sunsetglitch]

Men settling down in their mid thirties would be ideal for men, but women their age would be considered"advance maternal age".

[@stregalilith]

Fortunately not everyone marries to have children

[@stregalilith]

@@lightfm90 As opposed to starving them?

[@rayzerot]

​@@lightfm90What the hell does that even mean? Can you give me some context on that? The meaning escapes me

[@stacyshoemaker9177]

Men want kids?

[@stacyshoemaker9177]

@@chadcadsonvii5258 The only moral reason, but not the only reason.

[@bluebutterfly5062]

19:22 Exactly! Men AND women want each other for their "performance" of masculine and feminine. There are things you have to do for people to be attracted to you--you can't _not_ do these things and complain you don't get attention. Real, honest love is about sacrifice. Doing things that are inconveniences for you just to make someone else happy or succeed. You have to have a balance of both to endure a successful relationship

[@janushomer9111]

women want men for performance. Men don't want performance. Women don't sacrifice themselves for men (exception: maybe mother - son)

[@stregalilith]

You’re right. The learning opportunity here is to teach yourself which is performance and which is authentic❤️

[@hasensaurus]

unless you start constantly comparing how much you sacrifice for me while negotiating how much I sacrifice for you. Which women do, in relationships. A lot.

[@JetMan0406]

The ritual mentioned at 59:48 is actually performed with Bullet Ants, not fire ants. The group is the Satere-Mawe Tribe of Brazil and this is their right of passage. An incredible feat of endurance of pain. Great episode, I love Orion's message!

[@AFNick]

This was much better than Orion's interviews on other channels.

[@brain0nfire]

This guy is a very sober individual and I enjoy his style a lot. Very insightful as well. Edit: I found it curious that Taraban went on all those spiritual retreats and pursuits. It's usually a product of the New Age but I find it interesting that he ended up taking refuge on Christianity in the end. It kinda made me remind a bit of Alan Watts (who went to Japan to take part in in Zen Buddhistic practices and theology) and Jung (which also knew Hebrew). I could see by this resumé that he is such a temperate and patient figure. Seems fitting.

[@GarrethandPipa]

a young man who has a beginning in the understanding of the dynamics of relationships. salute

[@Lokipower]

Really glad to hear you two talk.

[@rayuk3939]

I found this conversation incredibly helpful in my life. Cleared up a few things and made me ‘think’. Thank you

[@ann4768]

Charlie, thank you for this discussion. So thoughtful and informative. I really appreciate the various angles you exam the subjects that you present.

[@KD400_]

What did u learn from it

[@zabtej1645]

The stuff you managed to get into at 1:10:00 with the crowd thing, literally defines my life for the last 3 years. I can't be grateful enough that you guys talk about it.

[@BrianBaileyedtech]

Wow - this is great content!! Real honest discussion and so much useful advice. I loved this!

[@GLDn1]

People in chaos have disorganized thought. Having a patient (sometimes guiding) sounding board helps organize those thoughts.

[@sacragon]

Thanks for introducing me to this channel!

[@augustin19tube]

amazing episode, learned so much

[@amandas1356]

Expecting someone else to make you happy or feel secure, that’s a problem. I did cognitive behavioral therapy and worked on myself and my own happiness and that was what made my relationship fail. I could only give some much love after 10 years. I wasn’t willing to give my best when He wasn’t willing to grow with me and work through conflict. That was becoming insanity. We weren’t able to be on the same spiritual/relational level of consciousness. It’s sad. I still love him and he just doesn’t know what love is and became avoidant and dismissive. Secure relationships can’t function without the same sense of self/intimacy/love and connection.

[@matthewnorris203]

I’m glad you’re getting the invites and cred, Orion. 💪

[@brianmeen2158]

Good discussion 👍

[@GeoffWilde]

Great talk guys!

[@fargo7018]

This podcast is refreshing. Such intelligent conversation is stimulating to my sense of self.

[@leon7676]

Very insightful 👏 👌 👍

[@attensecallaway9752]

THANK YOU for this episode. A lot of these points being made have been things I've experienced firsthand and reflected on. Such a relatable episode and helps me a lot.

[@elektrotehnik94]

Probably the best episode of this channel, so far 🏆❤️

[@particleconfig.8935]

panic attacks came late into my life, before that I could say I was fearless but this has pinned me down. You'll only know if you had the experience. When this type of thing shows its head, go into stretching your body and exhale to release the tensions physically and mentally. One has to become skilled deactivating sympathetic by activating the parasympathetic.

[@jukijunk]

If anything, it doesn't hurt to go get your blood test and health checkup You never know if it could actually be a symptom of a bigger issue like heart problems and such.

[@particleconfig.8935]

@@jukijunk it's loads of stress, alcohol, extremely bad sleep, caffeine and modafinil (both stimulants). Guaranteed system FAILURE. Now I'm back in health, and doing pretty awesome. Also, some countries just have awful dark winter months (and no sunlight isn't very good for mental health so that adds). But you're right for anyone to do their blood and checkup when they have some issues. Gracias ;)

[@twhite6692]

Very interesting I had anxiety and panic attacks appear outta no where affecting my driving on wide roads and mountains and I never had an issue with that and has always enjoyed the drive. I love driving in general . I always wondered if caffeine was the culprit.

[@Strafeyy]

This is not a helpful thong to saynto someone with anxiety. Good general advice though ​@jukijunk

[@planlosubertroffen2282]

Thank you very much

[@BiZii1024]

great podcast! Thank you for both!

[@accessdenied86]

Very good. Thank you.

[@aanchaallllllll]

0:20: 💑 The video discusses the psychology and behavioral economics of dating, and how it affects men and women differently. 9:30: 💪 Authentic confidence comes from both internal work and positive interactions with others. 18:29: 🤔 The speaker discusses the importance of providing value in the dating game and the frustration of losing oneself in the process. 28:02: 💔 Love can be mistaken for bartering disguised as love, which gives love a bad name. 37:30: 🧠 Deepening somatic connection and practicing mindful awareness can help recognize and choose differently in crossroad moments of intense emotions. 47:19: 🔑 The speaker discusses their past experiences with drugs and alcohol, which led to reckless behavior and a lack of consciousness about consequences. 56:35: 🗣 The speaker reflects on his experiences with relationships in his 20s and how women played a significant role in his personal growth and happiness during that time. 1:06:13: 💪 It is essential to stand up for your beliefs and take risks, even if it means facing consequences. 1:16:01: 🧔 The speaker believes that a healthy human being acknowledges and integrates their masculine and feminine elements, although this may create difficulties in the game of mating and dating. 1:24:47: ! Maintaining a successful and harmonious relationship is difficult but valuable. 1:33:48: 💡 Women should be savvy investors in the dating market and look for the 'Dark Horse' to secure a lifetime relationship before the age of 30. 1:43:34: 🗣 It is important to acknowledge and take responsibility for any contribution to victimization to avoid repeating the same patterns in future relationships. 1:52:43: 🙏 It is important to have humility and surrender to a structure or mentor in spirituality, but also understand the cultural context and avoid narcissism in cherry-picking beliefs. Recap by Tammy AI

[@TatisRingwormCreme]

Thank you❤

[@stregalilith]

Pretty good. This is so rich in wisdom I will review many times so thanks for the highlight

[@bigcat9356]

This podcast is underrated. Second episode I've seen and did not disappoint. Love Doctor Taraban's stuff.

[@EricWilliams-bn8wn]

I learned a ton from charisma on command. It’s beautiful to see Orion here. This is everything to me.

[@mattphillips6667]

The Dr brought me here and I can't wait to dive into this other guy's content. I see you brother.

[@mickbenson9161]

17:29 This is a profound insight. Men are capable of loving and adoring a woman 100% selflessly for her intrinsic qualities as a person. Sometimes I wonder if there is a difference between men and women when it comes to their capacity for selfless love with no expectation of getting something in return. I've been with quite a few women through the years, and it has been my unfortunate experience that the female version of love is mainly a response to being presented with a value proposition. Men have an idealized concept of love. We love women for their whole person; their body, their personality, their soul (if there is such a thing). Women seem to love men in a very different way. It's about status, resources, lifestyle, emotional experiences and how we can provide them with children and subsequently aid them in raising said children. I could be wrong, but I fear that women are biochemically incapable of loving a man unconditionally in the same way men love women. Once they have their children, we are no longer a priority. Whenever I receive interest from women, I always have a sense that they are after the status and lifestyle they can envision with me instead of me as a person. They want my sperm and my money, but they don't want me as a whole human. I'm still looking for a woman who can prove me wrong.

[@WinglessRain]

There are very few such women in the 'liberal' world, but plenty elsewhere. It's also about presentation. Women will rarely, if ever, tell you that they love you for you, even if they do, because such things go against what's acceptable in their girl social circles. Unconditional love is a fairytale.

[@DrLindseyM]

This is wrong. The same could go for men. Just means you need to pick better.

[@wildprodigy]

​@@DrLindseyMcan you elaborate on how he is wrong? I ask so both men and women can understand each other better

[@janushomer9111]

" Sometimes I wonder if there is a difference between men and women when it comes to their capacity for selfless love with no expectation of getting something in return. I've been with quite a few women through the years, and it has been my unfortunate experience that the female version of love is mainly a response to being presented with a value proposition. Men have an idealized concept of love. We love women for their whole person; their body, their personality, their soul (if there is such a thing). " Women can only love their children. They don't love men. Biochemically incapable? Sounds plausible. If I told you: " Hey, I am willing to be one of your best friends...as long as you give me what I want. Oh, and there will be no reciprocity. Everything you get from me will be something that I want more than you. Anything you do for me, is no promise for me to be there for you in the future when you need it", would you see me as a friend ? I doubt it. But somehow we want to delude ourselves about female love. Forget about unconditionally. Let's say: selflessly. Sperm and money is about right.

[@stregalilith]

Omg! Where are you meeting these terrible women? I was never one of them nor are any of the women who are in my circle. Could you be putting out the wrong bait?

[@justaname935]

i really enjoyed hearing you talk about spirituality

[@henrynankivell]

Great episode

[@attensecallaway9752]

1:35:31 this has been my strategy thus far. uniqueness is an underrated romantic lover finding strategy for guys, but it's not enough by itself

[@VeraLawRN]

I didn’t know you had a podcast!!

[@VertexCarver]

Fantastic ep. About adorer & adored. I believe it could be connected to areas of competence which is more dynamic than one being on a pedestal. The projection/pedestal type of relationships never worked well for me at least. Idk, just recalling grandparent's love for each other which was almost tangible. It's like a different level of connection & something built from a lifetime together. Most couples never even reach their contentment by a mile. I seriously don't get how some really play out the quote "Familiarity breeds contempt" & why some succesfully spiral upward, the complete opposite. Still, the onion that is connection & relationships seem a very hard road to start these days. Initial stages of "value" seem more important than I thought. Still, a relationship is not the end goal. Only the begining of sharing ones life goals I think.

[@teok8855]

I hope that some day we will see a conversation between Dr. Orion and Dr. K 🙏

[@elektrotehnik94]

Would love it ❤

[@wisdomandy9361]

They are quite different ideologically but might be interesting

[@dante19890]

Dr K is not really up to date on modern dating tho.

[@aspreedacore]

@@dante19890 that’s why it will be good, dr.Orion Is

[@TheBhopali1]

Dr. K knows human mind better than anyone!

[@cari78910]

I really enjoyed listening to y’all

[@gabrielWachong]

boy what a crossover event! 🙌🙌

[@Babalouie59]

At 32:45, Dr. Taraban describes women who choose relationships with men who resemble their fathers. This is especially common with women from divorced homes, absent/emotionally unavailable fathers. They seem to be attempting to have another chance at fixing their wounded hearts, by fixing this new man. One friend divorced his wife because they fought constantly. I asked what happened to her. He said she got remarried and they fight constantly. I said I was sorry to hear that. He said 'No, you don't understand. She's never been happier, because that is the way she grew up. It's familiar.'

[@expeditenow3664]

Good information

[@aeggeska1]

Great video

[@julla1416]

Good stuff.

[@VaronPlateando]

2:01:00 that discussion was about dual mating strategy (which was argued to be less viable conceptually) vs the mate switching hypothesis (which prof. david buss saw better supported by evidence) - if I recall well. at large, that is.

[@alexvsworld5974]

what a great name orion has

[@kaedatiger]

My cats usually came when called because they knew they were getting attention or a treat.

[@jessemiller3108]

That idea of love is very profound. I used to think I didn't believe in relationships because I was selfish, but the older I get, I start to see that I put love on this pedestal so high up that a relationship and love (at least the kind I imagined) could not coexist. It's an interesting dynamic.

[@Insight-music]

One of the best interviews I’ve listen to in a while. Love the well rounded perspective on such enduringly complex issues

[@pariaheep]

Orian, you confessing wanting to be a saint, after your mother gave that book to you "about" Saints... 😆 I've managed to listen 2 hours straight to you, guys... A SUPER INTERESTING, INSPIRING conversation, more like a "sermon" on this lonely Sunday. Elevating food for thought, thanks!

[@Rob-gx7rx]

great convo, cheers gents

[@chrism6764]

Dr Taraban is brilliant. I watch his videos all the time. What he talks about has helped me look at life very differently then before.

[@javilo2797]

struggling to absorb his explanations, guess its easier when you are a native speaker

[@ismaelhall3990]

Orion needs to do more interview.

[@whitepepperband]

Amazing episode! Following on the topic of love and dating, Adam Lane Smith would be a really cool guest

[@wardbischoff9165]

Yes! Worst girlfriend I ever had was a model. Completely boring and ultra-high maintenance!

[@stacyshoemaker9177]

Boring? Is she supposed to entertain you?

[@sannaperkio1469]

Tack!

[@brandoncomer6492]

I went to a therapist once. Massive waste of money and time.

[@sanekabc]

I have a very high success rate with picking up women. I am shorter and slightly above average looking. Online does not work for me for these reasons which is why I meet women in daily life. I have been on very few first dates which didn't turn into more dates and the vast majority into sex. I think my success is largely do to picking the right women by "testing the waters" before I even ask them out.

[@wildprodigy]

Thank you for sharing. I can relate to you. How do I "test the waters"?

[@sanekabc]

@@wildprodigy It's a bit of an art and you already need to have a degree of self acceptance and sexual confidence but during the chatting up phase you need to make it clear that you have romantic/sexual interest in her but indirectly, in a sexy, playful way. More importantly, she needs to reciprocate this in some way. Basically, you need to turn her on before you get her number. That way, if she gives you her phone number the way has already been paved for a fun and sexy date, where she even expects you to make a move. I would rather be rejected before I get the number than on the first date. Women are ready to friend zone men. Don't let that happen to you and if it does, then walk away.

[@sannaperkio1469]

Its scary how much Charlie look like Joe in the Netflix "You" series! But this episode was so good that i watched it two times! 10/10

[@amandas1356]

Jayden Gaddis and Clayton Olsen gave me a lot of perspective.

[@SugarDaddyScottie]

the 1:34:00 mark ... WOOOO THIS MAN IN A GENIUS !! I just discovered him like a month ago and I'm balls deep in his science and education.. greaT INTERVIEW

[@KxNOxUTA]

About hopelessness: It's an OK thing to have AND it nver excuses abusive behaviours. Not having hope and abusing anger directed at yourself or others to keep it away, is not acceptable. There are very helping mindful ways to give yourself permission to be hopeless and ACTUALLY give yourself a rest instead of staying stuck and getting more and more exhausted in a loop of "enforcing hopelessness". Not to mention that we really need to talk about how neither positive nor negative emotions are a mandatory reason for any of our decisions, if we learn to manage (not suppress) emotions. Hope can be exhausting if mismanaged. It can be very calm and pleasant and joyful regardless of the outcome, if well managed. We have a lot of choice in how high we wanna get on hope and how low and without safeguards we wanna drop. And the SAME applies to hopelessness. There's a whole spectrum there and sometimes people spriral into the respective extremes like there's no alternative.

[@stregalilith]

❤You are so right! Please post more. Your thoughts and wisdom are the perfect antidote to the nihilistic thinking and misogynistic rage posted every time the subject of relationships is discussed. I welcome your comments and so do all men and women of good will and those of every gender❤

[@Bertinator-nm9ld]

I think the most important conversation we need to have around hopelessness is how to get out of it once you're there. I rarely hear any sort of real advice on that besides "go to the gym" or "man up". You started to hint at another way, but didn't really elaborate yet.

[@stregalilith]

@@Bertinator-nm9ld Making a gratitude list works for me. Anyone who tells me "Go to the gym" or "Man up" is not helping and they are telling me not to go to them for support or role modeling, but to seek out more positive advice. I like to listen to Charlie, Attia, Gabor Mate, people like that. They never say "man up" or "go to the gym" which is dismissive and unloving.

[@davidfarrall]

Thanks

[@joukiboi079]

Women do well early on until they hit the wall. Men often start off in the pit. Gotta claw and climb your way out of the bottom 80% to have most everything you want.

[@silverhetch3383]

Dr orion the GOAT

[@jamesgburnham]

In social media, this is the most even-handed treatment of male and female relationships I have seen. Great conversation. Great information. Thanks for putting this out there.

[@stevec3526]

Dr Orion is a great thinker and speaker in the Red Pill space. He should write a book. Another great thinker and speaker in the Red Pill space is Dr Robert Glover.

[@fliiguy247]

So much knowledge in wisdom in this short chat. Wisdom is understanding that having a 10 isnt all its cracked up to be and looks are fleeting and real connection is infinitely valuable. Too bad that is a lesson very small percentage of the population will get to understand.

[@chapeau62]

Eugenics!! My struggle!!!

[@briceparlant9304]

Dr Taraban is the man! Loved the part when you use the example of tribal rites of passage to explain what it means to become a man. I personally have traveled to several Asian countries to renact those rites of passage via tattoos …

[@kristinehakobyan6548]

I’m in love with Orion😀♥️

[@bjorncarlsson7132]

A 5 star plus conversation, really interesting!

[@Trizzer89]

If I have to pay for hundreds of dates before getting married, I'm definitely going broke

[@DimitriTheBarbarian]

Hundreds? Are you able to find 100s of willing women?

[@ordinarytree4678]

with no time limit, for sure. 100 isnt that many. I've been on 2 per month at worst and I'm an unappealing broke 26 year old. When I reach prime in 35 that rate should increase as well.

[@DimitriTheBarbarian]

@@ordinarytree4678 poor soul. You will never settle and will never be satisfied with any one woman. Good luck having a family and kids

[@ditowout816]

They can’t take half of nothing

[@user-sx5qf9xf9k]

Don't spend money when on dates.

[@gameon2000]

I want this colonial style leather chair, Dr. Taraban is sitting on! Looks absolutely fire!

[@Damesanglante]

It's a 'murican chair for one person. 😜

[@noblestoryproductions8849]

1:49:30 While I can concede that it would be difficult for a child to see and cope with the fact that parents are not infallible creatures. There are most definitely a large amount of children, myself at 8 years old included, that not only recognize the failings, but actively try to escape, control, or minimize interactions with that parent(s). In others, I witnessed a strong level of coping mechanics such as feigned innocence and weakness which later grew into absenteeism, or a type of combative behavior that was used in interactions primarily used to probe for boundaries and weaknesses within the parent. We need to remember that children don't always follow the normal behaviors exactly as we believe. Some are extremely aware of not just others, but themselves. Also, I wish to point out and clear a few things: I am not a doctor, these are witnessed behaviors and discussions I've had with various ages within my life (including my own daughter), and I am not out to say this man is wrong. I am just sharing a set of observations that I have unfortunately been a part of or witnessed first hand. Great podcast, Charlie keep going my man. You nail it everyime.

[@timehathtcg]

17:33 ... dayum. my feels.

[@emZee1994]

21:10 Thank you Dr. Taraban! I needed to hear that! If I "play the game" well I can get real love with a beautiful woman. That seems like a fair deal. Even though I hate the game

[@nikolaandonov6766]

Meditation is that practice in which you train your attention to switch between the habitual thinking that pops automatically in your mind space and instead of going to the pathways of the thought, witch inevitably will lead you to an emotion (in most cases with negative charge, because 90% of our thoughts are worries) you drive the wedge of your attention interupting the path ot that thought and bringing your self back to present ( your surroundings or your breathe) a good Meditation practice is for me measures by how many times are you catching yourself doing this. The fruit of that is your ability in active situations when your partner (or anyone else) makes a comment, expres an opinion or does something "triggering" you will have this training to put the wedge of the doubt ( is it true? Is it about me...? ) which allows you to truly listen without prospective, without the filter of your ego , without the primal fears and the emotions that they bring. Only humans are able in these crossroads to be mindful and choose a different angle of view or path.

[@TheMadde89]

The more I'm listening to interviews like this, the more I'm questioning if I'm a man 😅 But jokes aside, I relate to these "mens issues" so much, like isn't this a human experience? Doesn't most humans have this experience? Just as one example, I've been told I'm not a real woman more than once. Ofc we hear that too if we deviate from what's seen as the "correct way to represent our gender"? I'm not saying we don't experience things from our gendered pov and life experience. But I think once again we're more similar than we give ourselves credit for. Even in the gendered stuff. But maybe I'm just not the typical woman so that's why I relate so much to the men's side aswell. That's obv also a possibility.

[@bagfootbandit8745]

I vibe with this (I'm a dude). I've never been comfortable with traditional male roles, which means I've been belittled. Was hard redpilled at one point. Now I've grown out my hair and experimented with presenting more effeminate. I'm def not trans, and I'm quite comfortable with who I'm with. I'm still not in a relationship (and my previous ones were hell), but I'm far happier being authentic to myself and my circumstances than I ever was chasing the dream of a wife and 2.5 kids. The way I see it is that we're dealing with cultural elements that interact with how we perceive our biology. We also like to identify with groups. We like to categorize because that's how we solve problems. It's true that most people who experience these things are men, but that doesn't mean women don't experience these things too. You're completely right that it's a human thing. At the same time, this doesn't mean the cultural trend isn't also real and important. So when we say "men are experiencing this," we should be careful to remember that it's a description of a larger trend, not a reflection of our personal experiences. It's way too easy to be pressured socially into identifying with the *solutions* we're sold for those trends when those solutions are going to be unique to the individual and their experiences. This is what we often mean when we use the terms "masculinity" and "femininity"-- we're looking for solutions that are innate. It's only partially true that the solution is innate. The other problems are cultural and individual, how we treat others and ourselves. "Just be yourself" Seems trite, but tbh, the most important thing is to figure out how to do. Being yourself means to figure out what you like and do that thing, and figure out how to give zero fucks to the trend. Big thing that stuck out to me in this podcast was love VS relationship. Love is freely given, and relationships require boundaries. That's all OK. If what I feel I'm missing is love, then I can give that to myself and to others. I don't need a relationship for that. That's the best way I can buck the trend, and it makes me happier too.

[@FirsToStrike]

I do not know you miss, but I think the answer is likely both- you probably are more "masculine" than some women hence can relate to this more than many of them, but also that a lot of this type of advice really does go for both men and women, probably exactly cuz nowdays people are expected to cultivate both their masculine and feminine sides.

[@Macheako]

Pick me much?

[@dante19890]

Maybe ur a masculine woman ? Society nowdays seems to want to make women more masculine and men more feminine to push the gender equality agenda that only a first world country can afford to experiment with.

[@KD400_]

If ur not feminine then u need to change that. Ur value comes from what man u can attract. And dont confuse this with ir human value like most women do

[@rouxstertv]

Ekhart Talle AKA Psychacks is spittin game

[@rigelb9025]

If I may add a slight correction : the tribes where they elongate the woman's neck are not African, but rather Burmese, and possibly Thaï. South-East Asian, at least. Although a similar tradition may also exist in Africa, of which I'm not aware.

[@lordgonzo6611]

Was half expecting Kenny to hit the one winged angel on CharismaOC at some point during the interview

[@RealityCheck1]

Invite an evolutionary biologist to the show. He will tell you, "Men want sex, women want resources." Psychology is cultural, biology is who you really are regardless of culture.

[@brianurbina9630]

Both are needed backgrounds. People shift and it's impossible to know with certainty what has evolved to current day trends

[@RealityCheck1]

​@@brianurbina9630biology is a constant, psychology is a pseudoscience

[@user-pf5xq3lq8i]

**epigenetics entered the chat**

[@kevinkurgansky4479]

@@user-pf5xq3lq8i😂

[@jasongrig]

he said more interesting things that he says in his own channel. Charlie is a good host

[@rigelb9025]

Back in the 1980's, a band called Foreigner asked a similar question about love. And oddly enough, I even find that Dr. Orion (sick name btw) looks a bit like the singer.

[@rigelb9025]

''Which gives love a bad name''. Man, this guy is basically running the gamut in terms of '80's love ballads, through a psychological lens.

[@tonydiesel3444]

Never marry these 304s ever gentlemen ever

[@spinnetti]

Good stuff - not often I get novel insights these days. I've always said the only true altruism is when nobody knows you were the benefactor. Great vocabulary too, so I get to pick on you for a very minor miss... Its "Champing" at the bit vs. chomping lol. I guess I got lucky pairing up at 19, and still together at 59. To your point, in my early 20's I asked a friends dad "when do you finally feel like you are a man?" - he said in your 30's and I think he's not wrong. I think that's expressed a couple times in the bible too. Having never really dated, I'd be a disaster now I imagine. I still think a man should be able to do lots of stuff by himself. Fix a toaster, change your oil, fix a flat etc. I think these things demonstrate ability to take care of your mate. If nobody is around, can you do it yourself? I do judge you if you just write checks for everything and there is a lot of satisfaction in taking care of things - in itself gives purpose through building widespread competence that keeps building on itself. I can run a business, paint a car, rebuild an engine, win races. I'm a business architect, machinist, welder, computer programmer and more but probably couldn't ask a woman out without making a fool of myself. Given I've got the theoretically desired "6,6,6", competent across multiple domains and well resourced, how I do I exercise this "advantage" lol.

[@lucasgust7720]

Dr. Orion is so interesting to listen to.

[@samuelmorse784]

Good discussion about Christ's sacrifice with one caveat. The Scriptures, including Jesus put a huge emphasis on thanksgiving and giving of thanks. Being thankful is fundamental to love and if you think God doesn't require it you are sorely mistaken.

[@Videoknite]

He's the red pill that's not misogynistic

[@neomacchio4692]

Videoknight: you’re conflating alpha fucks and beta bucks. Both are necessary for an LTR. If a man is too beta, it’s like throwing sand in her Vijay. If he’s too alpha, eventually she’ll get fed up with the lack of security and connection…. But she’ll be wet all the way there.

[@laturista1000]

Myron from fresh n fit would be his nemesis.

[@KD400_]

​@@laturista1000excuse me. Hes been on fnf. Go watch the episode

[@laturista1000]

@@KD400_ Myron is the hardcore version. The psychologist is more reasonable and capable of putting aside his cognitive biases.

[@drewmantia]

Psychacks!!!

[@ArjunB94]

Never knew Jim Carrey was into podcasting.

[@SkyBlue-vn9im]

Using humiliation is the definition of love. Love does not care about boundaries. Red flags

[@bettinariedel4402]

1.45 ….. I am responsible….😊❤😊🎉

[@VaronPlateando]

32:30 well... maybe, that's also where generational differences do come into play - once needs are let gone of, wants go as well. and things (such as prior experiences) are getting understood evo.psych-wise such that rel.shit with xx.s ceases to remain of any interest whatsoever, with indifference becoming a bright-side-of-moon take (vs cynicism), and lack of positive assumptions, associations, anticipations in view of that life aspect. or even acting such as to exactly keep xx.s off at arms' length (see 'anti-seduction' in robert greene's book). one may then not even bother to seek 'healing' by exposures to new instances of alike (eg in rel-ship-wrecking).

[@ZaneBezesky]

His definition of love is the selflessness and support that a loving mother provides for her children. The love is unconditional and doesn’t need gratitude. There are terrible parents, but what parents should be.

[@StevenReyBargamento]

Yes, relationships between men and women are conditional. If the conditions are not met then the relationship is over.