1987 Buick Grand National hits the dyno!! (With bonus footage!)

1987 Buick Grand National hits the chassis dyno to see what it makes and test the rpm range of the power band. Also, stay tuned til the end for the unexpected “BONUS” footage where a Hellcat picked on the ole Buick….or tried to….
250” 109 block
TA SE aluminum heads (ported)
Champion intake (ported), 70MM TB
218/218* billet hyd roller
6766 DBB turbo
3” DP to 2.5” ATR cat back and a cut out
28-29 psi, 19* timing
Janis 2004R (stg 3 billet)
PTC 9.5” NLU, 15 blade

[@hernandez0622able]

Man almost 700/790 is some serious sauce man! What a build!

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Thanks bro. Come by and we’ll take it for a ride one day…

[@tunerworld]

Awesome man! She sounds healthy. I am about to throw mine on the Dyno too this week once she’s done :)

[@joemcmahon8103]

I like what you did there in "Mexico". Good eats!

[@tlstray]

Great video!

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Thank you!!

[@Rhett.Castillo]

Excellent combo based on that curve! The lockup converter is really going to help at the top end of the track.

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Thanks man. Yeah I’m hoping locking the converter in 3rd and bringing the rpms back down into the powerband, gives it a nice mph gain. I’ll be videoing the whole experiment so…stay tuned!

[@Rhett.Castillo]

@AJsSpeedShop Hell yea! The lock up will basically extend the gear and like you said, put you back in that PowerBand. It's definitely going to pick up some mph. Beautiful car

[@gdbd6181]

great video

[@santibandigitalmarketing4269]

Nice jOb brother! Miss mine.

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Thanks! 👍

[@stevepurcell5883]

Great car. Love the wheels!!

[@chadjanis86]

I have a 109 block making 850 hp in my baby blue 1987 limited

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Hey Chad, yours makes 850 to the wheels?? Must have a killer combo on that thing. Care to share the combo?? Big turbo I’m guessing…?

[@chinogrande8773]

Sweet! Do a breakdown video of the upgrades/mods.

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Go check out my Vehicle Showcase video with the GN in the thumbnail pic, it has all of the mods and info in that video

[@Mark-cx5is]

Outstanding

[@Mark-cx5is]

You’re are lucky that thing( Hellcat)didn’t blow up and get Dodge on your car!!!

[@AJsSpeedShop]

LOL.. I know right! Dude was chasing/taunting me for a while as I was trying to wrap up my outro to my video…..he wouldn’t leave me alone…so I gave him what he thought he wanted. Lol

[@2muchBoost_]

Nice Dyno numbers...I think we have similar build but with a different cam

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Right on man. Yeah I see a lot of people with similar combos, but I also see a huge range/variance in how they perform. You just don’t know til you put it to the test. I know I had to do a lot of street testing with the Dragy to get mine where it’s at..

[@rlamas67]

can't wait till mine is done! I'm curious what it will make.. Champion iron heads, Champion intake, 218/218 cam with BB 6766 turbo. I have a ECU-GN as well what kinda display is that? your car sounds amazing!

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Thanks man! Go check out the Digital Dash video on my channel, it explains all about the dash display, which works well with ECU GN.

[@tensecondbuickgn]

lmao I love how the V8s have to save face by flooring it off into the sunset, after they've been schooled by a mid 80s pushrod V6 that most likely leaks oil like a pig!

[@Solar._.Humble]

🔥🏆

[@ronfuller1256]

I love it! This young generation don’t know about Dark Vader.

[@skywalker6268]

I know about Dark Vader!

[@longbedGTs]

Very nice numbers! What RPM did it make peak HP and TQ at?

[@AJsSpeedShop]

It made peak power at 5560 rpms, peak torque was at 4000 rpms… HOWEVER… we were not able to use the inductive clamp on the dyno to get the rpm reading. We had to use drum speed to reverse calculate rpms… So looking at the chart, it looks like the pull stopped at 6200…. But he actually pulled it to 6500 (logs)… so I think it actually made peak power about 200 rpms higher, at about 5750 rpms or so. We have about a 200 rpm discrepancy between the dyno rpms and my rpm log from the ECU.

[@DrKennyWang]

That engine and format is begging for a five speed manual

[@SteelCityDrones]

Nice video and good content. I am building a similar combo (TA block- Champion Alunimum heads - 218-218 cam, 68-70 turbo. What size injectors and fuel pump are you running? External waste gate I assume? What boost controller? Tell me more about the circle D converter you have? I am still trying to figure out what to use for a lock up converter. Thanks

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Hey bro. I’m running 160# injectors and dual DW300 pumps (340s) in a Racetronix “725 lph” hanger. Racetronix -8/-6 fuel lines. I’m still on the internal gate with the HD actuator pulled extremely tight…(like used Vice grips to get it on). I have an RJC adjustable “boost controller” but it’s backed all the way off, so it’s not really doing anything. On the street I make about 29-30 psi of boost on average in mild-warm temps. During the winter I’ll see 31-32 psi. It creeps a little at high rpms (6200+) from back pressure. The converter I will be using is a Circle D billet 245mm, multi-disc lock up. It’s spec’d for my combo and based loosely off of Dev Watt’s 4L80 Circle D converter he ran mid 9s with. We’ll see how it works, if it turns out to be too loose, then I’ll just lock it. I already have the converter, just waiting on the spare 2004R trans to get finished. I figure the PTC 9.5 will probably leave harder since it stalls to almost 6000 and spools the turbo almost instantly off the line….but I know the Circle D will mph a lot better. Plus drive better on the street and have lock up on the freeway.

[@SteelCityDrones]

@@AJsSpeedShop Thanks for the reply. Which 160's are you running? Eric recommends I go with the Injector Dynamics 1700’ and not the SMP 160’s for E85. He said they can become sticky, and not the greatest at low pulsewidths. I am hoping for 750-800 at the tires which I think I can achieve. I have talked to many people and I haven't found one person that says a lock up converter will work at that power level. Like you I prefer the lockup for the highway and to lock it up at the track but every single person I talk to says it can't work at that power level. I am intrigued with the Circle D you are about to install. Who did you work with on that recommended it? What headers are you running. I just got the Cruz race headers. One thing I recommend looking at is going with a setup that Patrick Rubio strongly recommended to me which is a 4 bolt flange setup with external 46mm Precision gate with boost leash controller. Patrick says it will eliminate all boost creep and give you total control of boost. This will help get the car off the line better by dialing in how much boost the car will accept. And the 4 bolt flange will make the car even that much more responsive on transitioning to boost from part throttle to full throttle.

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Hi, yes Eric is right on all accounts on the 160s. I have the RaceTronix 160s and yes they will absolutely gum up and lose flow on e85, even if you don’t allow them to sit stagnant, they will lose flow over time. I’ve had mine flow tested and cleaned 3 times in 6k miles, and they were down 10-20% in flow each time. I make a point to have them cleaned every 3000 miles now. Also, idling at low pulse width is a problem for sure. On e85 they idle fine, but on 93 octane, IDC goes less then 1% and the car will idle rich, mine around 11.8 afr in Park and 12.3 afr in gear, I can’t lean it out anymore then that, even pulling fuel pressure down to 29 psi doesn’t help much. The ID1700s would be the idle injectors for sure I believe if you plan on running 93 octane for any reasonable amount of time. On the converter thing…. That is a sticky subject. Yes I read and was told the same thing by all of the Buick “pros” and even by Dusty that ONLY a 9.5” PTC NLU will work. “It’s loose enough down low to spool the turbo and get the little engine into its powerband, but couples up quick and efficient up top” is what I was told. Part of that was right, the NLU will definitely spool the turbo, the problem with mine (and at least 3 other 650 rwhp turbo Buicks that I know of) is the converter is very late to couple up, usually after 120 mph… many of them are showing 10-15% slip in the 1/4 and a LOT more early on. I’ve sent it in and had it restalled to a 15 blade and it made no difference. A buddy of mine with the same power had his restalled 3 times, and had a diode put in it still slips over 10%. So this Circle D I did, is an experiment I’m trying. I went and met with the reps at Circle D on person, took them logs and vids of my car and they agree that my converter is terrible and totally wrong for my combo. So they spec’d me a 245 mm (9.5”) billet lock up they think will work. It’s likely it will need to be restalled once we test it and see where it’s at but…with the multi disk, I’m probably just gonna lock it in 3rd at wot and see how it runs. This whole deal is an experiment because it seems no one else has tried it. I’m building a fresh 200R4 to put it in to eliminate the trans as being an issue. So stay tuned, I’ll be testing and putting all the data on the channel, good or bad. It’s about a $5k experiment I’m trying, it could be a waste of money and everyone is right…..or it could work great, gain mph and driveability, and prove a lot of “pros” wrong……either way, you’ll see it here first.

[@SteelCityDrones]

@@AJsSpeedShop My car is strictly an E85 car. I get the flexfuel at sheetz and its always a good 79 to 80% mix consistently. I am going to look into Precision Industries converters as well. I had one of their lockups in my 04 Cobra running 140 at 3800 pounds around 15 years ago. I'll let you know what I find out from them as well. I"m having Janis build my transmission with all billet components. What headers do you have? Would it be possible to just replace the passenger header so you can switch over to external gate?

[@AJsSpeedShop]

@@SteelCityDrones The Precision Industries converters I feel would be too loose unless you lock it. I had a vigilante 5 disk, and it drove/worked great at 500rw, it already had a 2.0 pump and tight stator in it. I think you’d have to lock it for sure. I also had a PTC 10” billet LU that drove great and worked well at 500 rw, better then the VG, but no doubt it would be way too loose at 700+ and it was only a single disk so it couldn’t be locked at wot. That’s why I went to Circle D, they make 9.5” billet LU converters for cars that run 7s and make 1500 rwhp. PTC and Husek will tell you that’s not possible, but CD does it all the time. Also I had good luck with FTI 9.5” converters in my 900 rwhp C5Z corvette with a 4L60e in it. I did have to restall it 3 times but. It was about 9% slip at 152 mph at 3600 lbs. it was a single disk so I couldn’t lock it but, it worked well for that engine combo. It would still go 1.35 60’s also. So we’ll see how the Circle D works. I expect it to be too loose the first time around, probably need a restall, then hopefully it couples up early, but more then likely, I’ll lock it at wot. With the low rpm range of the Buick V6, I think locking it will get the most mph, that’s mainly what I’m concerned with. We do a lot of roll racing down here so 60’ isn’t a huge concern.

[@ronhardy9641]

Car makes power

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Thanks. Yeah it did a little better then I figured it would. And it actually made less boost on the dyno then it does on the street…by about 3 psi. I figure makes 750 rwhp on the street with the full 30-31 psi of boost.

[@michaelmiceli1907]

Where you able to calculate the converter slip percent? That's a nice combo there.

[@AJsSpeedShop]

I use the converter slip calculator on TCI’s website. It’s easy to use and seems pretty accurate.

[@dgerardo8941]

👍

[@paisa96ss]

Who does the work for this GN? My 109 motor is hurt. I need a shop that can do the work from A to Z

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Hi, I do all of the work on the car myself, but I did have the engine built by Westside Performance in Houston. They do all of the Buick motors around here. They did a killer job on this one…especially the valve train.

[@justdust7964]

I'm currently building a TA performance aluminum v6 block w/SEb heads rjc intercooler 5inch downpipe w/4 inch exhaust e85 72/70 precision turbo Tweak ecugn 210 Bosch injectors hoping for solid low 9s and high 8s on kill

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Sounds like a killer build! I could definitely see low 9s if the car is light enough. I also have a new TA block sitting in my closet waiting for a future build. Very expensive to build those things. Hell the crank alone is $4350…😵

[@JT-sl3ui]

That RPM meter would make me want to punch it! 😂

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Haha! No doubt man! Plus the turbo noises…😍

[@revtech-usa9912]

What are the details for the build on the engine?

[@AJsSpeedShop]

I put the engine combo in the video description, but the cliff notes version is 250” 109, TA SE heads, Champion intake, 218/218 roller, 6766 DBB, RJC front mount. About 27-28 psi on the dyno. 19* timing and on e85. Makes about 29-30 on the street.

[@mikejacobsen3853]

Where do you get your transmission built?

[@AJsSpeedShop]

I have Janis Transmission up in Akron Ohio build them for me. I actually have the one from this video up there right now getting refreshed.

[@dianecortis2047]

I have a 1987 GNX #069 out of 547, she has 1000 miles on her, she is beautiful 😍....

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Wow! That is awesome Diane! You are very lucky! Amazing car for sure…. And $$$$

[@TomuchLogic-ko8bz]

Bragger

[@820performancecomptonbro4]

E85?

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Yes, it’s on e85 mostly. I have a flex fuel sensor so I can run 93 also for road trips.

[@jeffchan9176]

Look in the rear view. You are blocking the passing lane.

[@Djasonjr]

Fk around and find out! Lol

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Yep…. And he did….lol

[@jurzyjohner432]

That is the power i want on mine when i find a decent one there's a few i'm looking at, so yea that's where i'm asking what mods do you have on yours? If you don't mind as I became a subscriber the minute i saw the video before this.

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Hi, the engine is a stock 109 block, billet caps/billet girdle, Eagle 3.625” crank, Molnar 6.38” rods, custom Diamond pistons. It’s around 9.7-1 compression. Billet 218/218* custom Comp cam. Fully ported TA SE heads, fully ported Champion race intake, 70MM TB. 6766 DBB Precision turbo, RJC front mount. It’s running on an ECU GN and it’s on e85. On the dyno it was at 27 psi and 18* of timing. Trans is a Janis Transmission stage 3 2004R, full billet, trans brake etc. the converter at the time of this vid was a 9.5” PTC NLU with a 15 blade. It’s a Circle D 9.5 LU now. That’s about it. I could have probably made a bit more power on the dyno with a little more timing and boost but, on the street it makes about 30-32 psi and that’s about as much as I push it. It’s been 9.92@137.6 in the 1/4 and runs 6.0s on the 60-130 on the Dragy. Thanks for watching

[@jurzyjohner432]

@@AJsSpeedShop That's a lot of beef there dude, and i thought all i needed was bigger injectors, fuel rail, bigger turbo, intercooler and call it a day, i would like it to be at 11s your's is super fast so i'm hoping it'll be simpler, you really have almost a funny car on your hands, does AC work?

[@AJsSpeedShop]

11s are very easy…. All you really need for 11s on a bone stock GN is a good fuel pump/wiring upgrade, bigger injectors Ally control meth kit, an upgraded Turbo Tweak chip, and MAYBE a better torque converter with more stall speed. Hell you can get into the 10s with a bone stock motor with upgraded valve springs and timing chain and the above mentioned parts, along with a little bigger turbo like a 6266… You can keep it simple. The jump from high 10s to high 9s is HUGE though…. Like $20k in mods huge. And yes, my AC, PS, PB all work well. It’s setup on flex fuel so I can run 93 for road trips. I drive it on long road trips every year. It’s more of a touring car than a race car. It could be a mid 9 second car if I shifted more focus to racing it, but I enjoy cruising it mainly

[@jurzyjohner432]

@@AJsSpeedShop I've got my eye on a few, they are going for like $48,000 in mint condition with some mods,so i will probably go for one of those or a fully stock one with like 12,000 miles for $38,000 so if you don't mind i'll keep you posted.

[@joemcmahon8103]

@@jurzyjohner432 Please let me know if you find one of those $38,000 cars with 12,000 miles.

[@mikemcghee2460]

The constant lip smacking is annoying af. Impressive GN tho

[@AJsSpeedShop]

Thanks for watching! (smacks lips)

[@mikemcghee2460]

@@AJsSpeedShop no problem captain annoying 😂