1989Batman.com On The Set With Bob Kane Featurette 1989 Batman Pinewood Gotham Keaton Burton

[@haileyshannon7548]

Bob and Bill should both get credit for creating a character that is still popular today, they both contributed to Batman's creation!

[@darthkurland]

Hailey Shannon nowadays they both get the credit, even though Bob Kane is listed first.

[@haileyshannon7548]

@Seb The ice man I wouldn't call him that, he just got more credit when he was alive!

[@TheDylandProductions]

@Mark Guerrero You don't know how copyright or intellectual property works, do you?

[@TheDylandProductions]

@Mark Guerrero Absolutely not. Let me give you an example with another piece of media: James Bond. The James Bond theme was composed by a guy named Monty Norman. He actually wrote the melody years and years before hand as part of a failed Indian musical. When the producers were making Dr. No, they asked him to do the music. However, he gave them some trouble, and wasn't exactly the match they were hoping he'd be. So they hired John Barry and his orchestra. John Barry re-worked much of the theme, even adding a middle 8 instrumental section. However, the main melody and composition were still Norman's. But Barry added to it and improved it and made it iconic, arguably. In that scenario, Monty Norman was Bob Kane. It's his song, at the end of the day. John Barry basically did a cover. A "better" cover, but a cover nevertheless. But, even then, John Barry isn't an accurate stand-in for Bill Finger. He better represents Gardner Fox (who came in and contributed much to Batman... much more than Finger did). So who's the real Bill Finger in this situation? Vic Flick. He's the guy who was paid 15 dollars (and lunch) to record the electric guitar for the song anonymously. Now, if you're familiar with the James Bond theme (especially the original version) the guitar is arguably the most iconic part. It's the main melody line. The playing of it is what MADE the theme to many people. It adds so much. But as a session musician Vic Flick was paid only the 15 bucks for that one session. No residuals or credit later on. Because, as a session musician, that's what he signed up for. It's in the job description. As for Batman, (and DC comics... and comics/literature in general) ghost writing is where someone willingly writes for something uncredited. Often these jobs are better paying and "safer" (so no 'starving artist' situations) but aren't as popular in the long run - because you're giving up your name for your work. Stan Lee did something similar at Marvel. His actual name was Stanley Lieber. He used the pen name "Stan Lee" because, even by the 1960's, comics weren't as respected as they are today. They were essentially reality tv/trash romance novels of their day - at least, that's how many looked upon them. Stan Lee always wanted to be a "real" writer, writing novels and stories a la Stephen King or J.K. Rowling, etc. So he went with a fake name in the comics world so he could have a steady job and get experience, while saving his real name for when he'd eventually do "serious work." But Stan Lee gave a crap and put his all into his stories, even though they were in an industry considered "children's fodder." And that's why his characters have been long lasting and popular to this day. Bob Kane sold a name, a Da Vinci inspired concept, and a promise to Detective Comics. He hadn't even created the character yet, but they bought anyway. Anything to equal or top the surprise popularity of Superman. Bob Kane likely sold the rights to "Bat-Man" before he even met Finger, or brought him into the comics industry. Yes, it was Bob Kane who hired Finger and brought him into comics in the first place. Bill Finger helped work on the first 3 or so stories before being replaced by writer Gardner Fox. Fox wrote the next few stories (which had the batarangs, bat-mobile, early bat-wing, etc.), and even created the first super villains. Then Fox left to, you guessed it, write novels and "serious" fiction. And Finger returned. Long story short: Bob Kane stuck out his reputation to create Batman. That's a big risk. Bill Finger took the safe route and wrote uncredited for a consistent paying job. That's what a ghost writer does. There are still ghost writers today. Bob Kane never "stole" from Bill Finger or "took credit" away from Finger. It's just that, since he imagined (intellectual property rights) and sold the character to DC, he got the creator credit. After Bill Finger died, Bob Kane tried to raise awareness for Finger's monumental contributions to ALL of comics, not just Batman or whatever. And, successfully, in the 1990's, the comics industry made a "Bill Finger award." In Bob Kane's autobiography, he even acknowledges all of Finger's suggestions and additions to the character. This is actually one of the biggest sources that people use to discredit Kane. But, all of their cherry picked quotes and such are out of context. I highly recommend checking out and reading Bob Kane's autobiography. And for Bill Finger's side of the story, look up The Steranko History of comics Volume 2. It's got one of, if not the only, Bill Finger interviews ever! Kane's "stealing" was really DC's policies at the time, and less so Kane's fault and more-so the system's fault. But Kane is Batman's creator. That's why the credit now says "Bob Kane WITH Bill Finger" since Finger cannot legally be credited as equal co-creator. It's a "with" credit, acknowledging his contributions but without officially considering him equal creator. Because he's not. Finger came in later. And, as a side note, Bill Finger actually stole names, characters, plots, and villains from other lesser known sources. Bob Kane only used other art as reference. Look up the Shadow, or the Black Bat - both characters that came earlier and Kane was unfamiliar with, but Finger was a fan of. I don't think a plagiarist should be put on such a pedistal like Finger has been recently... But, to be fair, starting in the late 90's DC changed their opinion on ghost writers, and started actually crediting per-story writers in reprints. Now Finger, Fox, and Robinson (who did a lot of artwork for Batman) are all credited in their respective stories. But Bob Kane came up with the Batman concept. And, no matter how many suggestions Finger gave, Kane had final say as boss and only artist for the first 11 or so issues. If the janitor had yelled up suggestions to Michelangelo as he was painting the roof of the Sistine Chapel, does he all the sudden deserve co-credit? He's not the one with the paint & brush in his hand at the top of the ladder, after all! Bob Kane came up with the concept, the name, finalized the look, and drew the original stories. He's the creator, end of story. Bill Finger and Gardner Fox wrote the early stories and created most of the early villains. And now they're credited as such. Saying Bob Kane stole from Bill Finger is ridiculous - and a fabrication created by some biased individuals (like those that tried to pass their own art off as being "Kane's original" and made the Bill Finger documentary).

[@trollfac7240]

@@TheDylandProductions he won't reply beacuse he's not talking about that context, he's referring to betrayal

[@suctionhong6728]

0:08 did kane really draw that stuff?

[@valentinobeaugrand7504]

poktal kim he's a pretty shit artist to be honest and I don't think he did draw that... well I mean maybe he did but I'm sure it's someone else cause doesn't look like his style

[@richharvey9153]

Todd McFarlane pointed out that some of Kane's images were swiped from his stint on Batman: Year Two. Like the illustration at 0:04 ... Basically traced (badly) from that comic.

[@marcbelo6088]

hey look it's bob the con artist kane

[@In-N-Out333]

Bill Finger couldn't draw. Whatever concepts he had for Batman were brought to life by Bob Kane. He was the one who rendered the character.

[@guileniam]

In-N-Out And yet, Bill finger told Bob what to draw. Not to mention guys like Jerry Robinson drawing original stuff, Bob Kane just used to trace over old Flash Gordon/phantom comics btw. Seriously google it. Dude was a kind of a hack

[@TheDylandProductions]

@Altaïr Ibn-La'Ahad Absolutely not. Bob Kane sold the rights to Batman before he even brought Bill Finger on board to work on the first story! And Bill Finger plagiarized the plot from "The Shadow"! Bob Kane, under U.S. law, was owner of the Intellectual Property. And he sold it to DC for publication guarantee, and a by-line. Finger came later to write the first story, and ripped it off. Later, DC brought in Gardner Fox to write the stories instead. HE named or created the batmobile, the batwing (originally bat gyro), batarang, Gotham city (originally New York), and the first two super villains; one of which being Hugo Strange; a character who still exists in Batman's rogue's gallery. This "Bill Finger was the true genius" is the same train of thought as the Tesla vs Edison freaks. No Bob Kane, no Batman. No da Vinci or Zorro, no Batman inspiration either. Also, Bob didn't trace over. He used other comics AS REFERENCE. They're clearly similar, but not traced. Jerry Robinson didn't come in until an ENTIRE YEAR after the character was created and published anyways!

[@Delta-ass]

@@TheDylandProductions wow

[@TheDylandProductions]

@@Delta-ass It's true. Bill Finger's contributions are massively overstated. Not to say he wasn't impactful to the character, because he was. But so was Gardner Fox... arguably more so.

[@Delta-ass]

@@TheDylandProductions so where did you get this info

[@marksousa5428]

99% of the batman u is because bill finger. Not bob rip me off Kane!!!

[@Tony-gj4yj]

20k ten years ago for DC #27? Must be the minimum since he said "up to".

[@brunocaamano4914]

theres no way Bill Finger couldve brought these characters to life like Bob Kane did

[@guileniam]

Bruno Caamano Lol, bill wrote everything. Bob just traced over stuff for his crude drawings, people like jerry Robinson did the original artwork. Not to mention, Bill basically was telling Bob what to draw. I will give Bob credit for allowing Batman to exist by coming up with the germ of the idea, but that character being a success was all Bill

[@TheDylandProductions]

@Nightmare1398 Wrong, Gardner Fox created half of the things you just mentioned. And Bill Finger plagiarized many of his stories and "CONtributions" from "The Black Bat" and "The Shadow." Look it up!

[@hudsonclarkk]

@@TheDylandProductions damn you really ride for bob. you’re in every comment section he needs to give u commission

[@TheDylandProductions]

@@hudsonclarkk Compared to the people that “ride” for Mr. Finger, to the point of lying and misinformation... What I’m doing is a service. The point shouldn’t be to defame. It should be for the ghosts to get recognition for their work! (Even though they signed those rights away when they were hired as ghost writers/artists) But Bill Finger stole, plagiarized, and contributed very little original material. Gardner Fox was the true genius behind those early stories, and the character is Bob Kane’s creation alone. Do some research beyond one documentary or a Wikipedia page (or worse, just from here say). It’s a much more fascinating and complex story than practically anyone is portraying!