2.8 Duramax Exergy 60% over injectors install

[@craighoffman6876]

Thanks for the video! I have a '17 Canyon with GDE's intact tune that runs great. Ya, removing the cowl to get to #4 is a bit of a pain, but not that bad. A couple of things. Warning, extensive nerdy 2.8 speak follows 😂 1) Was surprised you didn't just toss the foam as it is there for sound insulation. I tossed my foam early on, it clatters a little more when cold but otherwise is unnoticeable in ordinary driving. I dunno, I just kind of hate that kind of thing so in the bin it went. I don't even run the 2.8 cover as I like being able to inspect the fuel system at a glance and the Capt. Nemo look without it. 2) More importantly, there has been an uncomfortably high rate of holes in pistons with the 2.8. It has been widely thought the holes are due to injector "sticking" or failure causing the injector to torch a hole in the piston, but every hole I've seen involved a crack, and clearly the holes are not from melting, the are sharp jagged fractures, always at the same place at the end of a crack and at the edge of the piston bowl. The cause I've come to believe for this is the 2.8 is fitted with high silicon content "hypereutectic" pistons made by Mahle as part of GM's "Americanizing" the 2.8. Hypereutectic "smog pistons" are commonly used in modern vehicles as the high silicon alloy expands less than low silicon alloy when hot. This type of alloy allows a tighter fit in the bore, which is desirable for emissions and why they are used. This type of piston serves well and is not an issue with naturally aspirated cars, but I question the wisdom of using them in turbo gas engines and especially turbodiesels. The problem with high silicon pistons is they are hard, brittle, and prone to cracking, which has been seen with the American 2.8s. High silicon "hypereutectic" pistons don't play well with knocking in forced induction gas engines or rattly "dieseling" in diesels. Perhaps GM went to steel pistons in their latest 3.0 I6 diesel for a reason. The normal silicon content Federal Mogul (FM) pistons were used in foreign market 2.8s in the Holden trucks and in the American market CRD Jeep days back around 2008 with no significant piston related issues. Given this, I'd advocate anyone who pulls their injectors to take the opportunity to inspect the piston crowns with a small borescope for cracking - might as well if the injectors are out anyway! Once the crack completes and a hole forms, you are screwed and may lose the engine. If it starts running rough, shut it down immediately. There will be crazy blowby at the oil fill cap if a hole exists, and probably oil coming out the main seal. I've seen perhaps 50 such cases online in various forums and on Facebook. Can't say how prevalent the problem is, but it is common enough to be a concern. If jacking up the power on a 2.8, I'd seriously consider lower silicon content aftermarket pistons. They are available from Australia. It sucks as the Federal Mogul (FM) "normal" silicon content pistons never had this problem. I've been using lots of cleaning/lube/cetane additive (Optilube Summer+) with every fill since day 1, perhaps for the wrong reason, which is to protect the injectors from failure. Perhaps the real advantage is the cetane - you want these brittle pistons to experience a nice smooth burn and not get hammered by shitty 40 cetane American diesel fuel, as rattle under load = death for these pistons. On that front, "spin to win" meaning don't lug these engines and don't stress them with the stupid Tow/Haul mode which can zing the revs up near 4K on downhills. Operate them in the 1,600 to 2,200 RPM sweet spot as much as possible. The 2.8 is an "economy low emissions diesel" and not a "heavy duty diesel" by any stretch of the imagination. There is a great thread on Colorado Fans in the Diesel forum titled "My number finally came up - engine failure". The owner has a hobby shop, pulled his engine and is taking it apart with the goal of installing new pistons and carrying on. Some very good photos in there. He had his injectors tested and they are all just fine, including the one in the cylinder with the cracked and holed piston. Dealers get this wrong all the time it seems. We are gonna kick in some bucks and he is going to send the failed piston to a metallurgical lab for failure analysis. Also, Eric over at the "I Do Cars" YT channel has a 2.8 teardown video, which shows a cracked #3 and cracked/holed #4 piston. My guess is that engine was not tuned as it was full of EGR goo, and it had over 150K miles on it as you can tell the cam belt got changed. I love my truck, it has 80K trouble free miles on it, but this piston issue worries me. To be fair, the 2.8 is not the only diesel with this issue, the big boys have it too. I blame the EPA as they are the reason we have these problematic "smog pistons".

[@breoll86]

Thanks for the comment and for watching. I love this discussion. And I like your viewpoint on the piston failures. It is defiantly a weak point in these engines. But like you said, even the big diesel engines have this issue. To add my opinion on top of it, I believe MOST (not all) of the failures are due to a) running the stock tune too hard, or b) running too "hot" of a tune. No matter what a piston is made of it typically fails because of heat. Yes, certain pistons are better suited for high heat applications i.e. Steel pistons. And you can select a better material for a performance application. But most of us are stuck with what we have. As pistons get hot, they get weak just like anything else. So, reducing the amount of time that the injector is on will reduce the amount of heat that the piston has to deal with. Unfortunately, that doesn't coincide with making horsepower. But larger injectors will deliver more fuel in less time. Hense why I chose to go with 60% overs. I am not running them wide open. I've actually shortened my injection duration by nearly ten degrees over the factory injector. I'm currently running over 300us LESS pulse width while also delivering more fuel. Yes, injecting a larger quantity of fuel will produce more heat. But reducing the amount of time that the piston feels that heat is what's important. It also gives the piston more time to cool off. Waving your hand over a fire for a second might not hurt, even if your turn up the flame. But holding your hand there will get you burned. Now, there is a practical limit to this. And eventually parts will fail. But a good understanding of what's happening inside the piston bowl will help it live a long happy life. And to answer your questions, I put the foam back in there mainly because my truck is a Denali, and I'm turning into an old man and like for it to be quiet. lol

[@Duken4evr29]

@@breoll86 Interesting! Thanks for your reply. It is also interesting GM changed the injectors partway through the '19 model year, perhaps for this reason. GM didn't go through the injector update expense for nothing.

[@breoll86]

@@Duken4evr29 To my knowledge the injector change was cost related. When the LWN was developed the LML was the current Duramax. At the time, pizo injectors were the only technology that was able to deliver multiple pilot/post injections per cycle. Standard solenoid injectors weren't capable of reliably delivering the fuel that GM was requesting. Then the L5P came along and changed that. Newer technology in solenoid injection made it possible to deliver what was being asked. And hence the 2019 swap to solenoid injectors. The cost savings go beyond the injectors themselves. The ECU would now also require less voltage to fire the injectors and can be swapped with a more traditional and readily available ECU. This is all just my theory and I have never worked for GM. But the dates line up and anything GM can do to reduce the cost of an engine that they are phasing out would be beneficial.

[@SherlockTowers]

Absolute baller of a reply. I'm approaching 130k on my 2.8 and injectors is on my list of things to do so I'll check the pistons for cracks as well.

[@randybrowne9269]

Thanks for making these videos man it helps all of us that have these trucks. 👍

[@breoll86]

I know I'm not the first one to do this job. Just trying to get more information about these out there. Thanks for watching.

[@rcracer641]

Thanks for the video. On my air box, I added a 2.5 inch radiator hose to the bottom of the box to allow more air into the filter. The stock box has a horn that the air passes through that is about 1.75 inches that is hidden in the fender. If you just open the bottom of the box, you may get more noise than you would want. That is why I used a radiator hose to allow more air in and it keeps the noise down.

[@breoll86]

@@rcracer641 I considered modifying the stock air box. I ended up removing the air horn inside the inner fender. The rest is stock, besides the K&N. And me personally, with an engine that flows 32 lb/min, I don't consider the factory air box to be a sizeable restriction. Maintaining a proper MAF signal has a higher importance. But, adding additional cold inlets before the filter can't hurt.

[@hnledoux]

Two videos in one weekend! 👑

[@jaredthompson8966]

My truck had injectors replaced under warranty before i owned the truck. The way the dealer got number 4 out was by cutting the insulation pad on the cowl then beat on the cowl with a hammer until there was enough room to pry the injector out. The truck had 15k miles when they did this. I just did a head gasket and found what they had done, i still can't believe it.

[@breoll86]

WOW! I'm sorry to hear that. The cowl isn't easy to remove, but it's easier than beating the piss out of it. I can only hope that this video prevents that from happening to someone else.

[@HunterSkiff]

Interested to see how the 60s play out with the emissions equipment

[@breoll86]

As long as the injector data is correct it should be fine. We'll see how good I can get it. Lol

[@TheRandalHandle]

Interesting stuff. I really appreciate your channel. I'm not a mechanic myself, but I'm a big fan of my LWN. My truck does whatever I need it to do and I get 30 miles a gallon. That said, why can I not find any engine rebuild kits anywhere online? I plan on keeping this truck forever, so eventually it will need some work.

[@breoll86]

Thanks for watching. Unfortunately there are no "rebuild kits" available. I've been looking for a while and haven't had any luck. I ended up buying the individual bearings and gaskets from the dealer. It's not the easiest way, but they did have what I needed.

[@robm3357]

Brian if you follow the king of diesel tuning (Gale Banks) He says add more air with the added fuel to keep the burn clean and smoke as little as possible. If you run that truck without tuning it will fuel 60% more as your injector pulse will be set for your OEM injector. I’m guessing you went with the 60 over injectors because you are going to make use of that new turbos capability to run higher pressures. Remember to try and keep it on the lean side so you don’t plug up the DPF. It’s going to be interesting to see how much clean power it makes. I take it you will have to add the injector serial numbers into the ECU Would be cool to see your tuning journey as you sort the truck out with the new injectors Also been watching how plugged up the intake is on these diesels when running EGR. And was wondering if some of the engine failures due to piston failure was or has been caused by a rich condition because of plugged up intake causing lack of air flow. A rich condition causes higher piston temperatures on a diesel. It might be worth your while to pull the intake and clean it along with the ports and valve stems Rob

[@breoll86]

With the stock injectors the "richest" I could ever get it was around 23:1. These injectors will have more than what the engine can take if turned all the way up. But I wont be doing that. I'll be keeping my injection duration short. And keeping the AFR in check. 30% overs would have been "sized" better for my power goals. But they would have kept my injection duration the same as it was with stock injectors. But with 60s I can bump up the power and reduce injection duration at the same time. Unfortunately the Garrett doesn't have enough air to support these injectors wide open. But that was never part of the plan.

[@robm3357]

@@breoll86 Very interesting stuff. I don’t think I have seen anyone else on KZbin (That is not a company) with as much experience as you when it comes to programming the ECU. It would be cool to see a video of the tune you have ready and the way the truck responds. I guess I’m just crazy when it comes to the 2.8. And always like to learn as much as possible. Be carful, don’t blow it up…….. Rob

[@breoll86]

I bought this truck new and started tuning it shortly after. I wouldn't call myself a "tuner" because my LWN is the only one I've tuned. I don't have the time and resources that some companies do. But I do understand how the ECU operates. There is a lot to be desired with the factory ECU. But simple mods are within the scope of its capability. I generally don't like to share my tune files (like all companies) mostly because all trucks (and drivers) are different. What my truck and I like is probably different from what you and your truck like. If I gave someone the numbers to type into the ECU and they don't like the way it drives, then I would feel obligated to provide them support to fix it. Considering I make $0 doing this, that's hard to swallow. But I can show you the tools, and hopefully provide some confidence for y'all to dive into a project like this on your own.

[@robm3357]

@@breoll86 I like to see how your truck is running based on your tune you are or have downloaded to your new setup and hear about how it feels to you and then what you plan to do to modify any part of the way it runs. If it needs a tweak here or there. So what I’m saying is your setup when it comes to your injector pulse width with the 60 over and what boost pressure you will be running and what timing you will run then what tweeks you will perform based on how it runs. It’s just a curiosity thing for me. I have no intention or interest in building my own map. Although I do have multiple tunes and I am running 220 hp and 440 torque or just under those numbers. I have no intention of going higher. Actually I am blown away by how my truck runs. But I am also afraid of it having an unscheduled disassembly….. I have seen your vids and seen what you have accomplished and consider you a tuner. Call it living the dream through your eyes. I have tuned my Victory Vision and built the tune map for that bike but at 66 I don’t have the resources to go any further with my truck. I think the LWN is an amazing little motor. I tow heavy with mine. I have a Travel Trailer and also use the truck to bring firewood home. I have towed a commercial dump trailer full of firewood at over 10,000 lbs. Love my truck.

[@davidwilliams5551]

Those cowls are a bitch to get off with that sealant.I've had to replace a couple where I work due to bending the hell out of them.

[@MrJdrauch85]

Do you have to relieve fuel pressure somewhere before removing the hard lines? My wife put 2.5 gallons of DEF in her fuel tank and tried to start the truck 3 times. The truck would not start and had fuel in water display on the dash. I removed the fuel fulters and tank. Cleaned the tank but I want to check the injector lines before trting to start her truck again.

[@breoll86]

@@MrJdrauch85 No. The lines are not under any pressure when the engine is off.

[@MrJdrauch85]

​@@breoll86Thank you!

[@HR-rt9nh]

Similar question as Rob... is there an advantage to the upgraded injectors? and will millage go down, DPF affected so more often regens? I may have dealership do the injectors when i take in for timing belt water pump. I need this truck to be reliable for 4 more years...

[@breoll86]

Theoretically say for instance, cruising at highway speed, you will be injecting the same quantity of fuel (to make the same power) as before. So your mileage shouldn't change. The larger injector should be able to deliver the same quantity of fuel in less time. Which should in theory create a more efficient combustion. These injectors MUST be tuned to do this though. The dealership will NOT be able to modify the ECU programming for you. Proper calibration is required otherwise you WILL wreck your emissions system.

[@HR-rt9nh]

@@breoll86 Thanks not for me for sure...

[@robm3357]

I think his milage is going to go down because he is not going to be able to keep his foot out of it. Lololololol

[@breoll86]

@@robm3357 Lol That is a very real possibility

[@michaelkeyser8371]

It would be helpful if you gave a cost for the parts you install. Good VDO

[@breoll86]

@@michaelkeyser8371 Unfortunately in this day and age cost could very wildly. I also try to provide part numbers where applicable so someone can source these parts from their preferred supplier. I did purchase these parts quite awhile ago, but I think I have around $2500 invested in it. I hope that helps. Thanks for watching!

[@ResponsiblePledge]

Hey, did you have a fuel rail on this? Or was it just the hose that runs across to the top of the injectors? I have to replace the fuel rail on my 2019 colorado 2.8 so this was the only video I came across but our hardware def. looks different

[@breoll86]

@@ResponsiblePledge There is a common rail located on the driver's side of the cylinder head between it and the intake manifold. The lines go from it to the injectors.

[@jakedawson3949]

Did you have to re learn your injectors with a scan tool? I need to do the same job I was going to buy genuine injectors and lines but I was seeing I would have to relearn the fuel trim/ coding is that correct?

[@breoll86]

@@jakedawson3949 No, not with the early LWN. 2018 and older. I can't speak on the newer 19+ stuff. GM changed the injector style then and it may require serial numbers to be programmed into the ECU. But I'm not sure. The later years can't be modified like the early ones can so I tend to stay away from them.

[@jakedawson3949]

I have a 2016 so that’s good news when you did yours was there anything you had to do before firing it up? Like prime anything or?

[@breoll86]

@jakedawson3949 You're good then. Just cycle the key a bunch before you start it to run the fuel pump. That'll purge out any air in the lines. Then check for leaks and you should be good.

[@pasci0057]

Whats life expectancy of these high pressure fuel pumps. Should I plan on changing it with the timing belt? I watched a video of a guy change it without pulling the motor.

[@breoll86]

@@pasci0057 I haven't had a failure of mine. I don't anticipate to have a "service interval" for the pump. I always run a fuel system lubricant in every tank of fuel, that way I give the pump a fighting chance against today's dry diesel.

[@rj2196]

Did you clean out the injector holes? If so was it break clean or? And did you lube the injectors before putting them back in? And do you set the washer on the injector then put it in the hole or drop the washer down?

[@breoll86]

I blasted it with brake clean and an air compressor before removing the old ones. A small dab of grease will allow the washer to stick to the injectors when installing.

[@rj2196]

What scanner did you use to program?

[@breoll86]

@@rj2196 I've used both EFILive and HPTuners. They're essentially the same

[@rj2196]

@@breoll86 with an autocal?v3

[@breoll86]

@@rj2196 Yes, sorry I didn't specify.

[@rj2196]

@@breoll86 I’m assuming I have to get mine unlocked from efi then to do that. Is there a good video you recommend with a tutorial on how to program with it

[@breoll86]

@@rj2196 You can purchase the credits when you buy the tuner or straight from the EFI Live website. I have a couple older videos that walk through some of the tables. Might do an updated video in the future.

[@PHLTHS]

Do these injectors come with any Injector Data?

[@breoll86]

I mentioned that at the end of the video, but yes, they ship with a flow sheet.

[@CajunRobFishing]

How was performance & mileage after the swap ? Thanks for sharing !

[@breoll86]

I just installed these yesterday so unfortunately I don't have any accurate trend analysis as of today. I do have them "turned down" to 100mm3 at the moment to make sure I don't pollute my DPF. Once I get the driveability portion dialed in I'll work on making power.

[@jaederantonio7852]

Faz um vídeo isolando a EGR

[@breoll86]

I am only interested in emissions intact tuning for this truck.

[@jameslewis802]

Yeah man

[@albertloranger-rj8zi]

See u use amsoil which grade do u use

[@breoll86]

AMSOIL Signature series 5W-30 synthetic Max-Duty diesel oil. Been running it for years. I change it every 5k. Lab samples come back clean every time. They always tell me to stretch my intervals to 7k. But I'm sticking with 5.

[@Oksiwa]

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