2 NEW FAST KONE MonoSpace 500DX (EcoDisc) MRL Lifts in Car Park

Рет қаралды 11,809

TheLiftDragon

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 50

@swag_Tech 2 ай бұрын

Hammer, the elevator has mega speed.

@LGCT Жыл бұрын

Very Nice Kone Monospace Lifts.

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

Indeed they are, thx!

@elevator_satellite Жыл бұрын

Woah, that's surprisingly good leveling...

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

It sure is good, though I'd expect that from any modern lift nowadays.

@lbenk-topic Жыл бұрын

Average kone levelling

@raspelmundschnecke66 Жыл бұрын

🤯Heiliger Strohsack habe noch nie einen Kone Ecodisk als 19 Etagen Hochhausaufzug gesehen das ist ne klare Kampfansage an alle klasischen aufzüge mit maschinenraum ! MRL Aufzüge sind jetzt den anderen Aufzügen ebenbürtig

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

Nun, hier stimmt einiges nicht ganz. Ich erkläre: Es handelt sich hier um ein Parkhaus und die angeschriebenen Etagen sind Halbetagen. Die ganzen Infos sind übriegns auch in der Beschreibung aufgelistet. Die Anlagen hier haben beide eine Förderhöhe von 27.5 Metern und gehen über 11 volle Etagen (Nicht 19). Der Lift für die ungeraden Etagen muss das Erdgeschoss zusätzlich bedienen, da das Erdgeschoss eine gerade Etage ist, welche sich somit genau in der Mitte zwischen 1 und -1 befindet. Deshalb hat er 12 bediente Etagen, aber dieselbe Förderhöhe. Die nächsten vollen Etagen über, respektive unter dem Erdgeschoss sind 2 und -2. Dass es sich hier um Halbetagen handelt, ist im Übrigen auch im letzten Teil des Videos mit den Schachtfahrten zu sehen. Obwohl die beiden Lifte jeweils immer eine (Halb-)Etage überspringen, sind die Etagenabstände zwischen den Türen klein, die Türen folgen direkt aufeinander. Ansonsten wären immer 2.75 Meter (=eine Etage) "nur Wand" zwischen zwei Türen. Solche Anlagen gibt es übrigens. Nun zu den grossen MRLs. Die Anlagen hier sind noch imemr im Low- bis Mid-Rise Bereich und mit 27.5m nicht besonders hoch. 11 Etagen eben. Es gibt aber schon länger MRLs, die effektiv richtige Hochhäuser erschliessen. Die Anlagen im Video hier fahren 1.75m/s, jedoch können heutige MRLs problemlos 3m/s fahren und Förderhöhen über 100 Meter überwinden! Ein Beispiel schneller MRL-Anlagen ist diese Gruppe mit 2.5m/s und 78 Metern (26 Etagen) aus dem Jahre 2012 von Schindler: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYm6n2qldtmNaMU Auch Kone baut solche Anlagen, so habe schon eine EcoDisc Installation 2.5m/s mit 61 Metern (21 Etagen) besichtigt. Auch mit Gurten als neues Tragmedium lassen sich schnelle und hohe Anlagen ohne Maschinenraum realisieren. Somit lässt sich grundsätzlich sagen, dass für Anlagen bis 100 Meter heute keine Maschienräume mehr notwendig sind, sofern man sich denn mit einer Geschwindigkeit von 3-4m/s zufrieden gibt. Jedoch: Aufzüge mit Maschinenraum sind im echten High-Rise-Segment nach wie vor die einzige Option. Sobald die Geschwindigkeit 4-5 m/s übersteigt, werden die Motoren so gross, dass eine Anbringung oben seitlich im Schacht nicht mehr möglich ist. Für die extrem hohen Gebäude, für die Wolkenkratzer, werden wohl für immer Maschinenräume für die Aufzüge benötigt werden. Dies schlicht weil auch die Leistungselektronik für diese Antriebe (100 kW und mehr) einen beträchtlichen Platz einnimmt und hierfür ein eigener Raum notwendig ist.

@raspelmundschnecke66 Жыл бұрын

@@TheLiftDragon Halbetagen haben mich schon immer total verwirrt ich bin kein Freund dieser Bauform vor allem wenn es mit geraden und ungeraden Zahlen nummeriert und dadurch suggeriert wird dass man ein höheres Gebäude hat als tatsächlich vorhanden ist

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

@@raspelmundschnecke66 Das kann schon etwas verwirrend sein, aber besser machen kann man es auch nicht wirklich. Die Etagen 1a, 1b, 2a, 2b, usw... zu nennen wäre noch eine Option gewesen, aber das ist auch irgendwie komisch.

@Lifts_in_Austria Жыл бұрын

Sehr schöne hochwertige NMX11 Ecodisc's👍, sogar mit Seilgewichtsausgleichsketten 😮.

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

Hier wurden keine Kosten und Mühen gescheut - und das "nur" für Anlagen in einem Firmenparkhaus. Ich war auch positiv überrascht.

@KONE-zs6rd Жыл бұрын

Totally epic epic KONE they have there! I also have a KSS280 call button in my collection which i take with me everywhere because epic KONE is the best!

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

Indeed, these are really well specced lifts. I also have a variety of buttons and other controller parts at home but they stay at home as I usually already have enough to carry around.

@Avidiy Жыл бұрын

5:08 was this a malfunction? It seems to go up towards the shaft top, but then realized that it needs to go down, I have seen this in many KONE elevators in malls.

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

No, this is not a malfunction. The balancing of a lift is usually at 50%, meaning that the counterweight is as heavy as the lift car + 50% of the rated load. So the lift car is lighter than the counterweight in the scenario presented here. In addition to that, the whole weight of the suspension cables is on the counterweight side, further increasing this imbalance. There is a compensation chain underneath the car and counterweight here, which compensates this very difference. However, as the chain is not as heavy as the cables, the difference does not cancel out fully. From these relations we now know that the lift would naturally go up if the breaks were released. What happens at start is the following: At first, the drive will energise the motor and the magnetic field builds up. It will hold the motor stationary after brake release for a very short amount of time before starting. There are multiple parameters in the drive to control the motion of the lift and one of these is a gain factor for the start of a trip. If this is set too low, the motor will "slip" away into the direction the lift naturally wants to go. The drive realises this and counteracts the movement, but at the very first moment after brake release, every trip with an empty lift down from the top floor will start with a small movement upwards. If the lift was fully loaded and at the bottom floor, there would a be a very short down movement first. As long as this jolt is not too large, it is not problematic and can be considered normal.

@Avidiy Жыл бұрын

Okay, thanks now I know why, I have seen this in gearless elevators only, if it was geared the non-back-drive worm gear assembly would not let the lift “slip”.

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

@@Avidiy Exactly. Worm gears can be self-locking, though the ones used on lifts are generally not, or at least not fully. This property reduces the slip phenomenon drastically on worm drives, though it still happens a bit sometimes. Just to a much smaller extent.

@Avidiy Жыл бұрын

First of all, sorry, I didn't read your reply in 10 days, I think they make it semi-loking because when the power goes out you need to slip to the upper or lower foor

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

@@Avidiy No problem, I also have a lot to do and sometimes i take a while to answer. Semi-locking as a term kind of makes sense as the static friction often is high enough to keep the lift steady even if the breaks are open but as soon as you give the hand wheel a nudge it will start to speed up because kinetic friction is lower.

@minhpro-i7m Ай бұрын

In my country we have an mx20 ecodisc carry 2 tons with speed 1.75m/s and full glass shaft

@minhpro-i7m Ай бұрын

They have the same screen but the button is round

@LachieVidsTransportVlogs 9 ай бұрын

KCE looks nice! Ever worked on Schindler SC1 controller? Wonder how it compares to KCE and MX-GC.

@TheLiftDragon 6 ай бұрын

SC1 is basically like CO-MX or MX-GC, it has the same menu structure but a bit fancier display and also there are some extra safety features in place. I would generally say it's a good controller, the logical evolution of the CO-MX.

@mattmoreira210 Жыл бұрын

Nice! The absence of shaft switches/sensors really caught my attention, though. How does it reset its position/detect when it's overrun the limits?

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

There are shaft magnets, they are positioned underneath each door frame on the side. It's the black bars. For the position between the floors, the motor encoder is used.

@mattmoreira210 Жыл бұрын

@@TheLiftDragon yes, I had already noticed the bar magnets and figured there would be corresponding reed relays. It just didn't seem to me like a very smart move to rely entirely on that to provide absolute positioning, but KONE must know what they're doing...

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

@@mattmoreira210 They do indeed. nowadays not much is needed for a floor selector system, it can be done very simple.

@djkarcher1896 Жыл бұрын

Hat irgendwie einen guten Sound für einen Lift mit Direktantrieb. Oder hat der EcoDisk Motor ein Planetengetriebe?

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

EcoDisc ist eine getriebelose Synchronmaschine. Der Sound wird unter anderemauh durch den Umrichter bestimmt.

@Biasca1 Жыл бұрын

Für mich eine etwas ungewöhnliche Liftsteuerung. gutes Video!

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

Ist heute Standard bei Kone, wobei man natürlich sagen muss, dass man Kone nicht allzu häufig in der Schweiz sieht. Die Tendenz ist aber steigend, da Kone meist gute Arbeit macht.

@elevcro 3 ай бұрын

Why do new Kone lifts bounce alot? (mostly at bottom floor)

@TheLiftDragon 3 ай бұрын

Do you mean bounce as in the jolt in the wrong direction or literally bounce as in springiness, when you jump inside the lift? The first would be due to not perfectly set VFD parameters and the latter is due to the length of the ropes. But said bounciness is way more common and noticeable on tall bottom drive lifts cause the ropes are longer in relation to the height. Also smaller capacity lifts will bounce more than bigger capacity ones cause less capacity means less ropes means a softer spring constant (if you were to think about the ropes as springs, which they are in a mechanical sense).

@elevcro 3 ай бұрын

@@TheLiftDragon yep the 2nd one

@Avidiy Жыл бұрын

What they are soooooooo fast!

@TheLiftDragon Жыл бұрын

They are faster than average. However, I have documented other lifts that are much faster. Not yet on uploaded though. The fastest I currently have on my channel is 2.5m/s, the lifts here are 1.75. There's more technical info in the description.

@mushroomcraft 4 ай бұрын

Rare to see a building fitted with a good speedy lift these days. I'd expect them to put Gen 2s

@TheLiftDragon 4 ай бұрын

New buildings in my area mostly have ok lifts. A lot is Schindler of course, the 3000 are not worth mentioning (they're often used as cheap replacements for small innerdoorless lifts) but everything that is a bit taller will get something 1.6m/s, be it a Gen2 or 5000 or MonoSpace. Preferably even a generic because the build quality is just better than any of the aforementioned. I've even seen things like a group of 2 Gen2s, 1.6m/s, in a new residential building with only 5 floors above ground + 3 basements. They have advanced door opening, so they run really efficiently. Nothing to complain about.

@mushroomcraft 4 ай бұрын

@@TheLiftDragon We have to live with 16 floors of 1m/s Lester Controls mods, and 11 floors of the cheapest Gen 2s in my city! Developers love to cheap out on the lifts in the UK, and the council love getting crappy companies to modernise their lifts. They got Stannah to modernise a Otis 2000 from 2001. I've seen a 1.6 - 1.8m/s lift for a building with 32 floors + ground level in London.

@TheLiftDragon 4 ай бұрын

@@mushroomcraft Oof, that is really painful. Tbh I'm also under the impression that most building owners go rather cheap on residential lifts here - but that is not comparable of course. 1.6m/s is the norm for 15-20 floors residential, above that it's usually 2m/s. In a posh new residential tower, 30 floors, we even got 3.5m/s Gen2 streams with the ACD4 controller (that is for the Asian market, not the usual GECB-EN) and compass - these things are pretty epic. It's kinda funny how Otis really covers the full range from the very best to the very worst tings. Another thing worth mentioning is probably the Dynatron 2 drive system by Schindler, which offers perfect levelling. It goes up to 1.75m/s with a conventional AC geared machine and it was a lot cheaper than a DC gearless drive, so almost all tall buildings from the 70s and 80s got this. Don't get me wrong, the system is a genius feat of engineering and was the first one ever to do direct levelling, but the lower cost and super fast single floor trips lead to it being installed in buildings where a faster DC system would have been more suitable. So now many tall buildings that would have needed 2.5m/s are now stuck with 1.75m/s lifts, the speed has not been changed after modernisation.